Ron Flatter & The Eclipse Votes

Welcome in Wednesday. Happy hour Luis Roberto hanging

out with you today. Ron flatter joining us from

horse racing nation and his back porch.

Ron, how are you? I'm trying to make the Ping with

my wine glass. Ha ha ha boy.

Somebody's got to do the work around here.

All right man. Well you and I are doing two

things this year instead of just one that we usually have in

common. Usually, the one thing is that

we are both in the pod. Casting realm about horse racing

and the second one is, is that for the first time, I'm voting

on the eclipse Awards and so I thought I would have you a you

have voted all 52 years of the eclipse award so I felt like

your experience would be very helpful in this conversation.

Yeah. Actually I love you had an

eclipse vote. What was your first?

Whoo, I'm trying to remember now.

I was I had to fight it by the way.

This might sound. Like, I'm trying to be mean to

her. I'm not actually I think I think

it's probably I was going to guess 19 years.

Oh no. Alright, so I moved back here

from Australia in 2007 7. Okay.

So that's 15 again. I try I was doing a column and

racing coverage for the radio station website from Australia

and had done that for about 15 years total.

Can I use that as my leverage to try to get in but this was when

it was still the National Association of turf writers and

broadcasters and I was looked upon as a broadcaster more than

a Turf writer and they said, sorry you can't join our club

and I said well screw you I'll build up build my own Clubhouse

by the time, I finally ended my snit and they decided to loosen

the rules. I think it was around 2011 or

2012. So maybe 10 years something like

that. That's how long it is.

A very long-winded answer. That took nearly 250 two years

you were describing earlier. Ha ha ha.

No, it's interesting because I'll be very honest, you know

Mike and I applied this fall, enjoying the enzyme TWA be and

what was interesting is we get to Breeders Cup.

But of course you know that's when you find out is that week

and I was surprised how many people who are really writers

and that's what they do guys. Like Marty McGee and others that

are really on the writing side, kind of sawdust out and said,

hey, you know, we're really glad you got in.

We really, you know, we throw our support behind you when it

came up and and so I there's obviously been some kind of

shift Culturally, and or mentally in that group since you

first applied as a broadcast? Well, yeah, well there has there

has to be Knight become more of a writer than a broadcast.

I don't know. I don't do any broadcasting now

iPod cast site and so I know that's a blurry line these days

because broadcasting is dying and podcasting is the upward

trending the vehicle as it were sir.

But I do a lot more riding on. I've been writing gosh since you

know since we were still dip. Feathers in inkwells going back,

you know, I mean, I've started writing it school papers in the

sixties want to go back that far, but at least professionally

in some sense, since the 70s. And I've always fancied myself

in that realm. But to, you know, finally, wind

my way back on this, this Labyrinth teen road to your

initial question about the changing culture.

I think part of that is the fact that the number of writers is

dwindling, the Were of serious surfrider's would largely?

Because the place is to write are dwindling at least he

traditional places. There are plenty of New Media

places to write, but then that's really where the rubber meets

the road and trying to separate the serious Turf journalists

even. And in that sense, I think

tradition does holds sway versus those who are just, you know,

throwing condom blog every now and again sitting around

watching, you know, watching FanDuel TV and that's saying

they're erasing expert. I mean there's there's Body of

those Ivy. If that were the case every

every horse player would be in the and I don't discount the

idea, I'd even raise this question.

I think Turf, I think horseplayers should have some

sort of a voice in all this. I think I think certainly

perfect in the professional setting.

I think certain owners and trainers and jockeys ought to

have some sort of voice. I get there are going to be

political things. I talked to one trainer.

Out this at length once. And even he admitted that the

problem if you bring trainers into it is there are politics.

He says, you think their politics where you would get in

what realm you're in? Oh my goodness.

The the enemies lists in the horse among Horseman is sick.

With all of them. I have said before that this is

a very catty industry. And so I think in some ways the

culture changes Louis and it Some ways it does not was this a

good year, or a bad year for smashing out.

Excellent year degree four-year flight line was flight line was

like, that T's was like that, that he's, you know, he's like,

oh, I just want to see more. I was so show me a little more,

show me a little more, that's all I get, that's all I get.

And when you finally had the joy of being able to see him then

the it was a requited David tease, you had, I mean, what

better story would there have been on the track than what

happened at the Kentucky Derby at all the things that had to

fall into place for Rich, strike to win the race, let alone get

into the race. And then, of course, hats off to

MBC for doing such a great job with the Cody's wish feature on

graters Cubs. A, I didn't get to see it till

later that night of the following day because I was at

the Breeders Cup and we don't tend to watch the TV while there

were trying to Craft our own angles, but once the word

starting to get around what had happened, what NBC had done to

set that up, it reminded me of, like, the days of watching the

Olympics, 50 years ago, and it was all about those up close and

personal stories on TV. And I thought NBC hit that one

out of the park. So, when you look at those three

and those are the three finalists the force for the vox

populi award that the Cody's, which story one, just having

those three, four, great. How great was the Breeders Cup?

Distaff. At as a realm, I come down to an

aliphatic blue stripe and and Clary.

Are I mean, how great was that race?

We've had these stories over and over and over again this year

and those are the highlights. Those are certainly the

highlights of that. That's just the Treetops.

I mean if we start to dig in and evidently when you get into

something like that you have to open the Scrapbook and go.

Yeah, that's right. That's so this was in right

here. I also think it was a great year

for guys like us who talk about it.

Because not everything was resolved.

What do I didn't? Didn't run a bunch of times,

right? So people that wanted to object,

to how he was winning the manner in, which they were running him.

Could have that objection, Rich strike didn't come back and get

that graded Stakes wins. He almost did but he didn't.

So if you were against him as a quality cult, you still had that

argument and he's going to have to go show it as a

four-year-old. I think stuff like that where we

didn't necessarily get the answers.

May Made this part of our job, just a little bit better and so

and that you know, that's just not on track stuff to, I mean,

take a look at high, so it became a great kid, it became

our favorite pinata during the second half of the year.

And who knows? I mean look the language has

been Rewritten. It's going to be signed into law

by by DT and then we're going to see how the courts deal with it.

Who knows if it gets past January 10th.

So, you know, if you're listening on January 11th, you

know, how wise we were to bring this up, but I think stuff like

that. Baffert still in the news.

Off the track reasons. I think people because I was bad

the sport that's bad for the sport.

But what you just said for guys like us who have who wanted to

have stuff to talk about, have another long to throw on the

fire. We had plenty both good and what

others would consider bad. Yeah, they like the table

things. Interesting.

You know, in the horse racing, Twitter argument du jour, is the

three year old dirt on a land. And I, I've been or the

three-year-old male. I should say Champion, she's not

there, but the male champion, and It is fun to watch people

whose biases you know in the real world.

Yeah. Enter the racetrack right?

And so the people who don't like Bob baffert suddenly, the tables

winds aren't very impressive in the Pennsylvania.

Derby isn't a grade 1 or Messier?

Was a was a rabbit and that's all it was.

And you know, it's not a real grade 1 win out in the Malibu or

people with their political Persuasions, not liking deciding

not to like Eric Reid. And therefore, they're going to

downplay Rich strike. The good frankly, the good run

that, you know, if he, you'll have to help me not the clerk to

race before we race while for the loop.

Let's see what I mean. If well, maybe made I'm not

entirely convinced of that. But I think I probably possibly

at least, right? I mean, it's so like, he's

right. Yeah.

And I mean, so it's and then the people who went after Leon in

that race are the similar ones. I mean, it's just it's so it's,

it was so Interesting to watch people's personal opinions

affect, how they would leave rooted for a horse.

Lois. I'll tell you this, like, I've

told this somewhere else, I don't think it was on my

podcasts. I can't remember where I

mentioned it. I think it was I think it was

with Mike Willman on his radio show out l a thoroughbred la.

I hit the rich strike, had one the Clark if he'd won the Clark,

I was going to recuse myself from voting for the

three-year-old male because I have become close with the

connections of Rich strike for reasons that had nothing to do

with horse racing. By the way.

We just we hit it off and we don't, we are not eye-to-eye

politically either they do, we just found Eric Reid to be.

Just a good guy and became a friend in true.

And Rick Dawson has been Not very much a mansion terms of

dealing with him and we really hit it off and I was afraid that

and I admitted that I bought. I've been very public about

where my friendships are. I know others have told me.

So you know, you really ought to keep those a secret to keep them

separate and I'm like, no, I want to be open about it.

You know, baffert's, a friend and Eric reads A friends I guess

I got, you know, I got a couple guys who couldn't Stir It Up a

little bit with who are among my friends, but on that same token,

I wrote a piece in for at horse racing Nation on.

Today, which was an analytical view of the three-year-old male

division. Breaking down quality of the

grade, one wins and quality losses.

And I said table. Look, there were no other braid.

One winners either before the race or since in the Santa Anita

Derby or in the Malibu, there were no other grade 1 winners in

those races. And the greatest Stakes winners

he beat in those races were the same pair who did nothing better

than a grade 2 during the course of the year.

And so I said, look But to me, the only grade One race you

could even say, could be legitimately.

So and measure up in that regard, was the Pennsylvania

Derby. So season fuck.

I mean One winners. He are he be?

Yeah, I think it was three grade.

One winners mattress, right total of six, Craig one wins.

But when you look at it I just thought no I can't I can't

accept the table is even in that mix.

I don't even put him in the top three and so I tossed him.

And right away. Of course, somebody in the

comments. Section and fair game, you know,

said that, you know, for all of my, you know, slurping a bob

baffert in the perception of this one reader did not the only

reader. I'm sure said, look at that, he

might be coming around. So I think I can I think I can

put these things aside when I need to, but I also think, yeah,

I think. Yeah, I think you're right.

You people need to be open about it.

I saw Bill Finley, The Daily News, wrote a piece on why he is

voting Forte but I don't know where his allegiances are, if

Any, I think he's a pro who doesn't let those who doesn't

wear those things on his sleeve and tends to not adopt them and

let them Cloud his vision. But he wrote a piece on that and

I know you know tompa do was writing a piece tomorrow at

horse racing Nation. Know why?

How good the epicenter it has to be episode?

I made the argument, you know, and DeRosa my colleague is going

to vote for modern gays, I made an argument on behalf of modern

games as well as the as well as epicenter, as well as CyberKnife

in the piece that I wrote today. So, you know, let the analytics

speak for how they met. And, and I think, for me, it

boils down to two, boils down to epicenter and modern games and I

haven't chosen yet. How's that for a house that /

sitting on the fence here? Little T's.

I like that. If someone told you look,

epicenter Ram, you know, eight races all in North America this

year, modern games ran to, what would you say to them and is

their stamina to. But, but but That's here's the

problem with that, okay? So should loves only you have

gotten Eclipse award last year is the best female Turf.

Horse ran exactly one race in America.

Golda. Koval 12 Eclipse Awards, running

four races in America Over a four-year period.

So there's precedent there, I'm not saying that we should throw

in an extra scoop of wrong to whip up a batch of right, if you

don't think that was the thing to do, but I'm Saying that once

a horse races in the United States or Canada or Puerto Rico,

once a horse race is on one of those bodies of land than they

are eligible to be considered for the eclipse.

And it's up to us to decide whether their European records.

Japan records should count. And it's, if you do, go down

that road, it's pretty compelling for modern games, 30

and 4 against graded Stakes winners, 14, and 1 against

Older, graded, Stakes winners and the one, the one loss was to

buy Eid. Who's Jesse mentioned in the

same breath as flight line as a generational horse.

So it's a pretty gaudy record unless the two legs by the way

with by he'd like he was actually right there.

Yeah. Well I think it was until about

the last hundred yards But but so it's there's there's that.

And that's what that's what's I'm wrestling with right now.

He had to grade one wins in North America, the Woodbine

mile. Okay.

Cheryl spite was in that race and also want to grade one.

But other than that, that field wasn't all that flash.

But the Breeders Cup Mile and I would say, I would tell you this

modern games best race, I think was a loss and it wasn't the

Breeders Cup mile. I think it was the pre to Jockey

Club at Shaun T Mi and 5/16 which is a lot out of his

one-mile comfort zone. Soft Turf.

Which is way out of his comfort zone.

Still finished third and went to and one against grade one

winners in that race. He lost only tuva.

Denny the day, I want to win these when the coral eclipse

takes and finished second in the arc.

So if you want to start to color with, resumes the horses that

modern games face during the course of 2022.

I don't know that any Anna date for any award right now in the

United States, had a better resume of horses and Rivals that

he had to face the modern games. The question, again, though,

comes back to what you said, seven starts in North America

for epicenter to in North America, for modern games in.

This is the eclipse award for the best North American or

Sinise division. So how do you weigh that?

That's the thing, that's the thing, I think you have to

weigh, and I think how the vote turns We'll say emphatically,

how people feel about that. There's also the whole Turf

versus dirt thing and I know that's, yeah, that's a whole

nother thing altogether. Yeah.

I will say, I have not decided on 2nd and 3rd in the division

but I will be voting modern games the first place you will.

Okay. Yeah.

And let me make the case for epicenter while I'm throwing

numbers around. No sure.

Okay. So he only one, the one grade,

One race. All right, but he beat five

grade. One winners in that race in the

traffic. It was a big boy Traverse this

year. That's called the Big Boy

traffic and it's, and I've heard the argument that, well, if

could it have been better, shouldn't table have been there

all day, but couldn't have been there without being transferred

to another training that was the problem that but, okay, be that

as it may, if you look at epicenters year, he went 15 and

2 against grade 1 winners this year and 28 and 3 against ground

Stakes winners and I I mean, Winter's coming into their

races. I mean, let's say you've count.

Pick it up, pick. Let's say, let's say at the

center, any horse facing epicenter in the Kentucky Derby.

The Preakness I count epicenter is a grade one winner, even

though his grade 1 win, Kane was after the Derby races.

I'm just calling about the body of the year.

If you look at the body of the Year, epicenter beat was 15 and

2 against grade, one winners, and 28, and 3 against graded,

Stakes winners, and the two losses to grade.

One winners were Rich, strike at early voting in the two Classics

and only by a collective two lengths.

So if not for two fifths of a second, we aren't even having

much of a discussion here are, that's probably right.

I think you can see where I'm leaning but it's when I start to

look at these numbers by start to look, you know, modern games.

You know only lost to an older horse among great, Estates

winners was by E. I look at epicenter the only

losses against Made one winners were two longer shots, longest

shot in a longer shot in the derby and the Preakness.

I'm glad I have until Tuesday to turn in the ballot.

It's a fun. It's a fun class, and I want to

point out to people, to CyberKnife is in this group, Man

multi-grade One winner. He's not going to win the

category and frankly, he did it at different tracks.

I mean, epicenter one at fairgrounds in one at Saratoga,

nowhere else and you know, some of these guys moved around and

want a different Places. I'm not, I'm not trying to

knock. I'm just saying like, you know,

with CyberKnife winning at Fairgrounds winning at Oaklawn

Park in the Arkansas, Dairy, obviously wins at Churchill

Downs. In the mat, wind comes back with

the Haskell and, and frankly, that Haskell field.

Oh, Les. Please go to field as we head,

right? I mean like, you know, we had

three other, three other grade, one winners included the kick.

That won a total of six grade 1 races and he beat Kaiba and and

so okay. You look at it in that race and

Okay, so that's that is clearly his best race of the year.

The problem with the Arkansas Derby in terms of grading is

great ones, right? Is that the only other grade one

winner in that race was secret oath, a Philly?

And, and so, and not even the best Philly in her Division.

I don't think so. I think it was and easterling on

Twitter who made the point the other day, you know, talking

about this Division and he said someone said something like, you

know, are there? Too many graded stakes and he

said, I don't hit. He didn't think it was that it

was for too many great ones. Yeah.

And that, and that something like the Arkansas Derby, the

Santa Anita Derby leading into the into the Derby.

The Kentucky Derby don't. Yeah, I think the problem is,

and that's why we went through and graded, the grade ones in

the private road. Yes.

On Wednesday at horse racing nation that we graded them and

we actually broke it down. You can see on the charts how

many graded Stakes winners that each of the horses.

In those fields and one and how many Baby?

It's, You know, it's it really was.

I borrowed from college sports, I went to strength of schedule

and I wanted a great strength of schedules, and I think that's

something that just, you know, you, we blindly pro-grade, one

around. If anybody wants to tell me that

the grade one, let's say the Travers, you want to tell me the

grade one. Travers is as good a race as the

grade one Malibu honestly? Really you want to tell me that?

No, I'm not, I don't blindly look at it in a contentious

Division, I will say individuals that are not so contentious, I

will. Okay, I will hang my hat on

that, but as I said today, I think with Tabor two of those

great ones or suspect, but it'll all sound nice on those

commercials when he's a stallion and say, you know, Sabo free

time grade one winner in 2042, you know, that will sound nice.

Sound nice and God bless you. And that's why these races are

graded as such, because ultimately, they're looking for

stallion value. Those, let's beat, you know, the

answer to all your Questions is money, right?

Are those three horses, your top three and you're just deciding

on an order between and I'm dying alphabetically after

Center, modern games and table? No, no, no tables, no tables for

for me. I'm in order package, I have the

Exacta box of epicenter, modern days, and then I go CyberKnife.

Okay, yeah, table. And then Jack Christopher had to

had to grade one wins, but the belt of the best ability is

availability, right? He only raised four times the

Here, I actually think he is deservedly in the mix for

screener for a sprinter Eclipse, but if you, you know, his one to

turn race was the fly in the ointment and he didn't race in

the Triple Crown. You didn't race in the Breeders

Cup. I just, but you got, you know,

we consider him because he had to grade 1 win.

So, now on the other sentence, I often see by the way, as I see

that. Oh, tayba is the only?

The only horse among three year old males with three great.

One wins. We got to put an asterisk on

that. You can't work for 2022.

Modern games had to grade ones and a group one, which in the

the France guineas. So the aside to put on and

that's a grade one, a group One race.

The problem, this is, I will give you the problem with the

modern games resume. Is that the horses who were in

his early three-year-old races, the early Classics in, which he

raced. For the most part.

The for he won those horses didn't come back to win Jack.

After that, right? I recognize the three-year-olds

are sending us holder horses sooner in Europe than they are

here in North America. It pretty much starts at the

beginning of Summer where we often wait till as late as

mid-fall. I get that.

But at some point you got to show up.

Now in the Prix de Jockey Club which was a three-year-old race.

Ya more came out of there. They did very very well.

Well, but the other races, the, the guineas and the one in which

he finished fifth. Yeah, you got to look at those

and go. All right, so there's that and

that's the other thing that's not forget that modern games did

finish fifth in a race this year.

So an interesting group it's a shame that my guy Y tu Barrio

won't win it. But it is what it is.

All right? So I know it's funny if why the

Barrio Y tu Barrio Logan well Clark he would have had to he

would have two great ones for the servile.

Yeah. Right.

Yeah. It's about part me cigar Mi,

thank you. Yeah.

I didn't dislike him in that. I thought it was actually a

smart place to put him and he just you know my God essentially

got nosed out but I agree how we doing the Pegasus, right?

So That's, it's sappy back in. Florida, is it is it nest and

everybody else? Yep, okay, get in your mind.

Grade 1, grade 2 grade 3 in a grade one.

Second, I looked at her, I was wrestling with that between her

and Echo Zulu for the third spot.

The problem is your second spot them Second spot is Huayra.

I put Myra who won. Who lost the Canadian?

I mean, you know, looking at restricted races, the Woodbine

Oaks and the Queen's Plate, but those are every bit important

races. Only do a race.

That's right. And then, you know, only missed

a neck, beating regehr in the EP Taylor and then just was up

against it in the against it and of Breeders Cup.

But and I think that was too quick a turnaround that was And

so, and by the way, when I go back to the EP Taylor, I get

that, you know, she finished second was, you know, for a

bumpy ride at the end. Got disqualified, put down to

eight. So I should say crossed second

in the EP Taylor but Myra that was every bit an important

victory in the last ever running of the Queen's Plate because

everything from here on in, for the next three generations of

course, is the Kings play. And so, Because we're old, we we

go back for all of his life that goes du Louvre for me.

I thought in the, when you look at the losses, those were

quality losses. I look at the loss in the

Kentucky, Oaks on a wet ish track.

Only missing by 3 lengths, finishing, fourth and really

weakened on it on a tiring track, that was just a tough.

Rap to get over and against some very hot fractions.

I thought she showed very well going.

You know, trying to hunt the pace against 46 and 2111 and to

you know comes back wins the Dogwood on a course that was

really not favoring speed at Churchill in the September meet

and then lost a good night. All of who, you know, in the

Breeders Cup Filly and mare Sprint, good night all All of, I

mean, we will talk about good night all at some point later

here. But but I mean so I go, I went

there Spinderella. I looked long and hard and I was

between her and Echo. Zulu for third and fourth for

me, I mean, you're looking at about, at a horse who was 445 my

problem there and where I finally decide.

Okay, where does where do we separate the women from the

girls? Is that I don't think the races

her earlier races in the year were that were that good?

And that the fields were that, were that good.

So from that standpoint, that's why I made the made that

distinction and I think Echo Zulu maybe there's the Prejudice

of earlier Impressions by think I go Zulu certainly has shown

that she is able to Up against tough competition.

I know the Kentucky Oaks, you know, okay, she should have

maybe say she should have done better there if she had, then I

don't think there's any question.

She's in the top three. Such my goodness, what a year

Nest has. And I know the distaff was a

disappointment, but then again, I mean, she is three facing

these older horses and still doing this by three and a

quarter length. So I was gonna say forth in that

race is no shame this year, no question.

By the way, you need your second against the boys in the Velma.

Okay, I loved her in the spring, loved

her loved her and of course the I'm sure this happens to you.

I watched her the eight bells on Oaks day.

Yeah. I would love you know.

Yeah. I was like that.

Horse is one of the a chord. She goes of course a big scratch

and I get it. You know.

I know that there was that Goofy.

Or whatever the hell happened. But was it clear yet?

Right? So, so, or was it know who was

it? No, no, no, was it echoes in

society? I can't remember.

But there was the gate scratch. I get that.

So she goes off odds on but she missed the start.

Yes. Correct.

Vulpix ours. Still ran away with it.

I and and, you know, you had annexed out winter finishing

second in that race and then finished a very game third in

the So yeah my tarea again though you come back to the best

ability is availability and then get that point I think, yeah.

I think that there there's that recency bias that comes along

with the later races in the air. But there also is the fact that

those are very salty races, just on their merits.

So to have her miss those I think was a big was a big strike

against but I wouldn't be surprised to see her getting

votes. Older dirt mail.

I think, I wonder key, I think I think not only will flight line

will run away with it. I think it'll be sort of

stunning. Where do you mean that?

After that? Because I'm I'm at, I've been an

Olympiad guy all year. I think, second in that Race

Matters in the Breeders Cup Classic, but if you told me you

were voting for horses here, life is good, Jackie's Warrior.

Y'all. Well, is there someone else in

this group that you really like? Yeah, I like to Cody's wish but

I couldn't. Yes.

Yeah, I went I looked at Olympiad.

I thought yeah that that winning streak at the beginning of the

year was underrated by said so but it was the beginning of the

year and the Whitney performance and and coming up you know,

Running on Empty as it were and losing big in a race where life

is good. Good really, you know you wonder

about Life's good evening, getting past a mile and still

won that race but the rest of happy saber and hot rod Charlie.

I'm okay. Alright, comes back wins the

Jockey Club Gold Cup in against a field that I would not

consider Flash and then in the in the Breeders Cup Classic,

okay. So he begins the, you know, he

gets to start the receiving line for flight line.

I look at the body of work and I look at The races, he had early

in the year we're not that were not that as competitive to me as

they were for the handful for life is good.

Now I should tell you haven't turned in my ballet yet so

you're going to have me looking at this again but to me, life is

good, was the goods and I just think there's the thing I look

at with life is good. I think any in North America he

would have been undefeated if Todd Pletcher and, and Gary and

Mary West, and I put them both all three of them in lockstep

here, to me, it was a very sporting gesture to put him into

the classic. When he might have given Cody's

wish all he could have wanted but Jeremiah absolutely and and

might have won that race. And then now we're saying, okay,

well there's your easy, second choice, For this honor.

And I think that was a very sporting gesture and you can say

and go. Well, knows how supporting was

it? What?

Second prize in a six million dollar race.

Right? Okay.

And you're looking at a horse that came out of there you know

with three almost three and a half million dollars this year

so okay there's that but I to me I think life is good, was the

goods all year and I'm not going to grade him down for his

performance. In the Breeders Cup Classic

because he was really out of his elements in that race and you

know, he shouldn't be going, a mile and a quarter.

I think the Dubai World Cup showed us that.

So but good for them, good for them to give it a shot and make

the race that much more interesting by putting him into

it. So I'm going to reward him on

the back. I'm going to draw a line through

the Breeders Cup Classic with him and he's given the Number

Two Notch and I'm going to make Cody's wish 3.

I mean that For race winning streak with a couple grade ones

at the end. And, and by the way, no slouch.

I mean, you win the foregoing beat Jackie's Warrior.

Hello. That's a big, that's a big spot

and if you want to say, story means something here.

Yeah. I think there is that intangible

story does mean something it's the same thing as when we voted

for Zenyatta, to be course of the year when I think it was to

certain degree, a Lifetime Achievement Award.

So, There's a and not undeserving.

I'm just saying that that was worth some points as well in

consideration as well. So I think story means something

and so that's why, but you're going to have me looking at

olimpiadas Get Low, you're going to have you looking again, I

have not turned in the ballot yet.

Yeah. You know, and you talked about

something in the last group that we talked about with the

three-year-old Phillies with that recency of how much we care

about the races. At the end of the year,

somebody's got to win those races at the beginning of the

year to and and Olivia think a racist.

But they're not big race. I get it, it's like a week.

Well, I don't know what's in the Jaguar.

Is the same as the NFC Championship.

You know. Not the same in the same vein

though they're making the foster a great one because a horse like

Olympiad wanted, right? I mean, they're flipping those

which would ban the Clark because the quality the field is

usually better in the Foster and it wasn't this year.

I get it, but I wouldn't. You still won the race.

So yeah, I will not die on the ill be built by the Oh, man.

Do you know the plans for elite Power by chance?

Because I think that's a horse is a five-year-old.

Could be an absolute monster, just a high.

Do not. I, you know, I am due for a

conversation with mr. Mott.

I will see him at the Pegasus, no doubt.

Okay, so much. And I don't, yeah, I'm sure

that's a judgment decision and we had to drop my conversation

with them. Longer than the males.

Generally do especially at the top of the sport.

I'm putting that with that firmly in the first spot.

Me too and me too because of a knows.

If that's right blue stripe was my long as something of the

weekend. Where do you put good night?

Oliver I put her second. Okay.

Yeah, I did too undefeated in a given year means something to me

and we have two of them are great ones.

Yeah I get that. Do you know the ballerina?

But look at stories in that race.

I mean, she's listed on here and I mean, no, it's yeah.

So, you know, but you know, Breeders Cup winner, 444 and and

all those things and and there's a Chad by we chat on dirt, Chad,

I mean, I think or not. There's going to be a fair

amount of Support from a life that I don't think we are alone

by any means. Three grade, one wins in good

Fields, a narrow to narrow losses to Clary, are in that

rivalry and then when they get to the big matchup that.

Now, if that does win by, what is the equivalent of the head

against Clary are and so, yeah. I mean, I think we will not be

alone there, but I also think that good night.

All of for Chad, I think that that says a lot.

A lot that, you know, anytime he develops a good dirt horse and I

get that we're talking about a sprinter here and there's always

that past risk that you put on when you're saying okay.

Well otherwise it is an open category of a female's.

He's staying at Sprinter. Well, I don't downgrade, you

know. Yeah, it's a spray.

Yeah, it's a Turf horse. Yeah, it's a 1 turn this.

I don't do that. I look at the accomplishments on

the track and frying. And you know, if all things are

equal, then you start to sort that out and look for

versatility. But yeah, I love goodnight.

All I love goodnight. All the good night, all cost me

some money. Ha ha ha in the so maybe that's

there's that. And then I'm voting, fiery are

third eye that that one. It was a bit of a tough call.

I look at Pauline's Pearl. I did look at obligatory little

bit so but I voted Clary are third.

I just think she showed she shows up with the fights and,

you know, finished in the money. All.

But one time and that was in the Personal Ensign or remember, she

was like, you know, she looked like she was not only going to

throw her writer at the gate. She looks like she was going to

eat the gate. Yeah, I'm important.

Your well with Dario that guy, that was crazy.

That was the ultimate draw a line through it.

She would have trampled the line for it.

It was just, she was just nuts that day, but throw that out and

Claire was every bit of warrior as she always has been Steve

asmussen. Does Modern games.

Get a look from you for male Turf candidates?

It's funny, you should mention that because I saw somebody, I

saw somebody write that. Well, modern games doesn't need

to get the three-year-old male or because there's another one

for him. Not only does he get a look?

He gets my first-place vote, all the reasons I stated earlier.

Yep. I mean, I build such a case and

part of that is I will I will admit the part of it is.

I don't see any big time. Outs here in the u.s. count

again, gets my second place, vote, fulfilled, Tomatoes, barn,

and a big part of that was the fact that, you know, California

horses you. Yeah.

But he shipped to Keeneland and finished sixth in the Maker's

Mark Mile and you go well that's why you're not voting for him to

be number 1, I don't know. He finished sixth losing by only

a length and three quarters in a terrific.

We go back to use a blanket finish of all blanket finishes.

Yes, right we go. You remember, when we were

talking about the best stories of 2022 and I said, we'll other

ones will come up and and I will be reminded of them.

Yeah, the Maker's Mark mile is one of those stories where

Cheryl spite mazen's food. Like I mean, I just, it was such

a great, great race and and count again was right there and

then comes back and wins the Shoemaker mile.

You know. Look, I and the other problem

here, that of course, it's like, okay, I'm going to contradict

myself where Is where was this horse in the second half of the

Year? Well okay I get it.

I get it but I just don't know you know goof oh no I mean you

know 11 you know just two races all year do you look at

Annapolis 3461 the turf mile but God just threw a fizzer in the

Breeders Cup my life, you know, I could be talked into Annapolis

for an An additional vote Kasich read.

I looked at on the basis of wins in the Jaipur and the four-star

Dave, maybe I go back there for a third place for a second place

Horse by Third Place. Horse is Rebels romance on the

Bates the Breeders Cup Turf win and winning three group or grade

1 races in a row. Yeah, I get the tumor in Germany

and that's like saying, okay, well you want to grade 1

California but nothing in the class parents.

Yeah. Baptism.

Yeah, and so, and by the way, I cashed on that race.

So that was about. The only thing I cast on that

day of the detective, I did, I did invent the classic, because

I didn't think there was any money to be made there, but

maybe I should have gone to double, right?

So that was, that was the rebels romance got.

Got to vote for third, but that's a work in progress.

I could be talked into, I can maybe be talked into Annapolis I

can. And so is a golden palette or

thing to you or is that That Breeders Cup.

No, I so I think the Breeders Cup performance was so ugly.

I thought well the couple things, okay.

So he goes in with a pile of hype into Wesley's, annual trip

to ask it. And then, you know, there's

there's e-rod in the gate, he's blowing bubbles while everybody

else is running and he winds up, you know, finishing 16th and

then, okay, comes back to nice wins and then just looked out of

looked out of place. Place as a 625 favorite in the

Breeders Cup, Turf Sprint completely looked out.

Out of his element and I'm like, If This Were A Lifetime

Achievement Award, I would absolutely vote for Golden pal,

but it's not, and so I did it. And in all the categories were,

I saw him that breeders cuffs Turf Sprint, effort, or lack

thereof on his home. Track did nothing for me.

Did nothing, you know, they because it was so windy that

day, I don't know, going through these Ron, just made me sad

about it. Canterbury's.

It's just the hot, but good it just made me sad.

I mean, it's like there are people complain about

The dirt, graded stakes in California, having 45 backwards

in them. I mean every Turf areas east of

the Mississippi is like that with Joe Brown.

I mean so yeah or remember the days in Northern California,

where For what he has accomplished on

the track interfaces. I'm not I'm not going to sit

here and tell you what we need to rewrite the rules because

we're going to penalize somebody for their assets.

I hate that. How many times in a job if

you've been penalized for your assets?

Well you did so good. We're going to have to not pay

you for your next vacation. First you know one of those

deals. I can't promote you.

You're too good at your job. You have something exactly.

You. Oh yeah so you get that with Bob

you get that with. You got that with the hall.

On door for Bay's connection. And it's so you started it, you

see it in Europe with good dolphin and with cool more and

so what do you do? I mean, what are we going to do?

You're going to, you're going to discourage people from winning

races. No, keep encouraging them, but

keep it in context and I think that's that's part of The

Challenge on the female side on the turf.

This is a little bit more interesting of a group, I think.

Yeah, this may be. This may be the second most

contentious division that I have, I'm with you.

Because you got to read the glory, you've got to Bleecker

Street, who I mean, if you didn't, if you didn't totally

follow Bleecker Street feel like, wait, what?

That horse? What did what this year?

And then, I mean, Caravelle for all the the slander 548 this

year. I mean, it's not like she did

the damn thing this year de leak.

Of course, one the Beverly G over the mud course, at

Churchill Downs in August, I've no, I would run out for, like, I

would say that was Like Crow rugs on a policy.

So bad that race. Man, I went on with Bobby Vee

here on our local. Guess pieta feeling he's like

who's going to win the race? And I said I don't know but I'm

gonna bet the longest odds because it's not a term course

but she does come back. She wins the Cardinal over the

new Turf course in November here after running in the fall

Harvest out at Keeneland. I mean, there's just so many

horses here that did, you know, so many different things.

Did I mention your favorites here?

We're like goddess, of course, is about it.

Now, you do, okay. We go.

I'm on war. Like God is, you know I think to

me her best race was herb was the loss that had her farthest

behind the leaders and that was in the Breeders Cup Turf where

she lost to males Rebels romance who have already said this in

consideration for one of my Awards Stone Age also cake

finishes second two males and here she comes in finishes a

hard-charging from 11th to third in that race, making a three and

a half lengths of 8 places in the last half mile.

And oh, my goodness. That that was, that was pretty

story to me. And so to me were like goddess

and then you back that up grade, one, win in the turf, plastic at

Belmont at Aqueduct, or say it with me, as I like to say back

and then lost only a neck in the flower bowl and otherwise,

Winnie to grade 1. Agreed great.

Steaks. They'd be which and the Glens

Falls before that aquiline and Saratoga.

So yeah. Winning on three different

tracks or on ones who yeah. One, two, three.

That's three run. So that's why I lean their Regal

glory for me. Was next best with three grade

one wins but again you know, where was she for the the

Breeders Cup? Well there she was still still

running that race, you know, finishing 10th.

But Again, you know, a lady in the mile, so I put her second

and again, that, you know, I actually am looking at my little

note here and it looks like I had a one there and changed it

to a to when I decided to war, like goddess was going to be the

way I go. And again, I haven't turned in

my ballot yet. So this is this take, this is

such a tough Division, I went in Italian third, okay?

Yeah, harshly on the basis of her close second to Tuesday, The

Invader from across the pond, In the Breeders Cup Filly and mare

Turf, but had won the Diana and the first lady before that beat

technical analysis in the Diana. Don't you know, by a length and

a half and I really came to love in Italian as the as the year

went on. I was at the first lady at

Keeneland that day. And and the interesting thing

about that race to, let's not forget this.

So she goes from Saratoga get some time off and Then comes to

Keeneland and her first race back.

She's carrying six more pounds than she had carried in her last

race. And for more than she had ever

carried in her career and that's not for nothing.

And she still one by one and a half.

So every by one, and then comes back finished.

Second in the Breeders Cup delay, Merit are.

So, as far as a third place, is somebody to put on there to be,

I she had to be there. I was, it was a question of

whether she was second or third. And now for me, it's like

between Riga. Orion or like God is between

first and second. So this is this may be because I

did so much analysis on three-year-old, male this, maybe

Tom from me because I may be needing to do more of that same

work on this Division and diving in the strength of schedule for

female Turf. Yeah, it was, it was a, it was a

really fun year with who you happily.

I have more like goddess. I do.

I agree with you just for first-timers is what but I do

even though many of the races, Were just against

three-year-olds I think spend arella had a really good year

and I think she'll probably end up in my top three because I'm

not going to penalize her for being a 33 year old.

Does that make sense? It's an interesting point, and I

would penalize her more for having her only grade one, windy

in California. She's is our, she could be lost

in spiral in the coronation over to ask losing to inspire all is

not. There's no shame in that.

Believe me, there is no shame in that.

She just, you know, I mean she He's out front that race and she

was as I remember the race, I'm trying to visualize it in my

mind's eye, it was a straight mile.

So right there that's a little different for her.

Yes and so it's like okay well when's the term wins the

tournament. The tournament who's good.

And who's this guy on my back while?

I don't know and still there she was.

You know, moving along, moving along was right there at the

pace, but at the end in those races in those straight races,

if you don't have that straight experience, it's difficult to

finish and she still wound up second and see again as we have

this conversation, maybe I need to go back and look again.

And if there's a division to be reviewing, this is the one All

right, so the people and you said, you really you, you

haven't. You haven't really done a full

dive into the people. Yeah.

On my have which one is that? But I think the one you're going

to mention first. Oh so trainers with.

Yeah. Okay.

I think we have the same CliffsNotes careless.

Yeah, I just know it's it's very interesting to me because I

appreciate that they break so people don't know.

We did it. We get a paper guide from Um,

The Daily Racing Form, and they do a very nice job of putting

the, the groups together and different things.

And so trainers are ranked first bite earnings.

Then by wins the grade one wins and then migrated wins in

general and yeah at the top of three by the way.

And as you got your updated version because, you know, we

that these were mailed to it's a month ago.

Yeah, that's true, too. Yeah, I have the one.

I'd like to. I'm holding the paper, whether I

know just for ease of use, Us trade routes at the top of three

of those books. Right?

And a lot of it is that he He runs a lot of horses but

frankly, the guy right behind him for earnings is a man named

Todd Pletcher and right behind it for grade. 1 wins aside

Pletcher and Todd had, you know, 75 more horses this year starts.

And so just by percentage it's a reminder that Chad Brown in

these races, you know, winds at an incredible clip.

Now, part of it is what we talked about, you know, if

there's any horse field for a grade one interface, he's got

three of the horses now that his winning percentage is so high

and two of his horses lose. The race is also something I I

think about a lot. What to you, stood out in the

numbers there. And you, you know, because I

also appreciate that they ranked by wins because you mentioned,

you know, Holland or for up at the Golden Gate and in the Bay

Area for all those years. Yeah.

I mean, like Johnny Wong, had a hell of a year out in Southern

California. I mean, that's, that's, you

know, that's two or nine wins in 1051 starts at 8:00 and you can

see why we just had him on the podcast to talk about his move.

Start a Kentucky you can see why he's moving because 1000 starts

200 wins and he's making a sixth of the money of a guy like Todd

Pletcher. So and I can't imagine it's a

sixth as in expensive to live in Northern California.

Yeah, but I don't you know, I'm not I'm not giving parachutes

the the jockey Eclipse I'm not giving her birth, I'm not giving

Beverly Park, the horse of the year.

Just based on, you know, starts and wins the things like that.

Here's the reason I'm voting for Pletcher number 14, It's a nest

Malik, that's nice. Okay and to me, that's the

separation, that's the separation Factor there, you

know, Chad to. And I'll give you, this is the

curveball. I'm going to throw you at 3:00

and that's Charlie. Appleby Because for the second

and there's a little bit of Lifetime Achievement in here.

I get it. I voted to, I think I voted for

conferred last year. Somebody will have to check its

transparent. It's available online.

You can find it. You can tell me I'm wrong about

my own boats, I don't remember last year, beyond the fourth.

Most grade one wins in North America, this year with eight

starters. We were eight starters.

The guy can pick his spots. You're in a Anna.

And the lads thought that says a good spot for this hearts in

vain. We thought that this would be a

good. I really like the show does

that. By the way, I had a great moment

in my career this year. So I've been dealing with Aidan

O'Brien for almost 20 years dealing with walking.

And he got to Keeneland early normally doesn't show up the

Breeders Cup until like the day before she got in like on that

Tuesday. And so I come over there and I'm

talking to him and at one point he had that that I'm Ron.

And I almost, you know, drop my cookies, he called me wrong.

I looked down at my credential immediately to see if he was a

reading off my credenza. The other time I was blown away

by that was Rebecca Romain? Did that to me in a Super Bowl?

She's gone and I'm like, oh and I look down and shower, she just

read it off by credential. There's a so who cares?

I'm Rebecca read that one. Yeah, that's good.

It's just good that you ready? Yeah.

That was 25 years. In this case, I look down my

credential, it's spun around, he knew and I was like, oh my God,

I kind of made it. So, you know, in the

self-serving narcissistic ego, maniacal world of Ron flattered,

that was a big moment but ain't no Brian brings a lot of horses

over here. A lot of you don't win a lot of

doing a lot of them don't he is Strike.

Rate is not as high as something Charlie, Appleby to me the skill

and picking his spots. There's there's something About

that. There's it's Sublime and I love

it then. So I'm voting him number three

and so you know mr. Mott mr.

Rasmussen mr. Cox mr.

Baffert for three quarters of a Year, by the way, not for

nothing. Bob, baffert only, you know,

train for three quarters of a year.

I get, you know, because some of the horses, the one for him, one

another horse trainers names. But, and so there's that.

But now, I'm voting Charlie Appleby three, and I'm pretty

set on that order. Todd.

Chad charlet, who before? My I've got my eye on, you know,

I mean you had his horses winning streaks.

You know, Olympiad his horses whinny and streaks.

And I appreciate that when if you're betting on mock forces

and it's like being at a blackjack table and you get on a

roll and then we figure out. Okay, what am I going to double

my mistake? And you do it when you're hot

and then you back off when you're not.

And I don't know what kind of Optics.

There are two that in terms of analytics, whether that's good

or bad. But I do that and if I see a hot

trainer with a hot horse, I back it might have does that might

gets his horses. They get to be hot at Key times

of the year, so I would, I would, I would put you in a

number three, number four, you know, third among North American

traders in this category and with far fewer starters, the

many people, I mean, Yeah, so this is a scented L, see you

kid. Second most wins in North

America. He's a he's an apprentice

jockey. Is that the easiest human

category to figure out? Well, I don't vote an apprentice

cops and I'll tell you why. This got to be a good thing,

obviously, that's where yeah, it was a couple years ago.

And I was, we were all in covid, lockdown.

We had nothing better to do them snipe at each other stock

Hazleton, who, I know, I'm with whom, I am friendly and

Michelle, you who I know. But I, you know, I don't know.

Her terribly. Well God after voters not me by

name but the voters who abstain from the Steeplechase, right?

And The Apprentice jockeys categories.

There is a good number of people who don't vote in.

Either of those. And I am one, I was going to

mention a man, I don't want to mention his name without I'll

tell you off there, but there's another very prominent prominent

member of our fraternity does not vote of these with for this

reason, we don't follow them assiduously.

I don't want to cast on to that my expertise when he simply does

not exist. And the point of Michelle was,

well then do your damn homework, right?

And I was like, well, do you do your homework for your voting

for water commissioner, or for the seventy three judges that

you gotta vote for? I mean, if that's the case, I

think that's a more important vote than, you know, a bunch of

trinkets for horse owners. Sure.

And she claimed, well, I do you stop this door.

I'm going to stop the story there because I'm going to try

to be. I'm going to try to take you,

but get me drunk, some time at some point and nobody Saints and

do the damn Thang. Yeah, no way.

So, but I raise this point at a subsequent meeting of the turf

Riders. I made a motion that I had no

intention of voting for saying that anybody who votes in the

eclipse Awards either has to vote in all the categories or

none of them. Hmm, the motion died for lack of

a second. It's not Hazelton was at that

meeting where he was very remember months after he was

very vocal on Twitter or very visible about you know if you're

going to you know you shouldn't be abstaining in these things on

us. He did not second that motion.

Michelle you was not there, which might be the ultimate Gina

Dobbs itself, just laying it out there.

I've stained from it. I don't, I don't know what I'm

talking about. Four friends Chuckles.

I just don't, I really don't if there was, I mean, when, when

Jessica pifer wanted I thought well, yeah, she seemed a

deserving. She also had a very public

coming out party to write about her career and who she was and

how she got into racing like, I think we do.

Oh, we've. We've I felt like we knew her

right, my friend. Mike Wellman, did a very good

job of promoting that say that, he's the pr guy Santa Anita,

right? I'll give you this.

If I were looking at any name on that list, the one that comes to

mind for me, is Kylie, Jordan, the number of women who are in

the top, 150 among wins this year, among chalky's is very

scant and she's one of them. So, just from a standpoint of

women, not getting chances in certain aspects of horse racing,

such as true. Is not training.

There are trainers such as jockeys and, you know, even do a

certain degree ownership to a certain degree, you know, I'm

going to light it, I'm going to light a powder keg here,

mentioning this announcing women.

Don't get the chance. I would say, Kylie Jordan me.

If I were voting, I would certainly, give her strong

consideration for being number one, just on the basis of the

fact that gender bias among jockeys is Horrible horrible.

So, I offer that. So we women in announcing also

get no Grace for figuring out the job either.

It's remarkable. So, no, no, listen.

I got the arguments, you know, and I won't poke that baratie

further than I got. I got too many people, I know

and this is the other thing critic criticism of announcers

is the third rail or raping media.

I will leave it at that. I did a piece of the newsletter

back when we were still news lettering in the times and I

said, what am I three weeks favorite things at Keeneland is

that they have multiple Finish Lines and a reader Road wrote.

Jotted said you can't let him do that.

He has to tell us the other two Really, how do I was this the

most a long-winded diatribe narcissistic ego, maniacal bunch

of crap from me about what category on, which I'm not even

voting. You have specific questions

about this kid and here I go. I mean my God Nick Clooney

hosted a game show called The Money maze.

That was not as well as this was.

One of our producers job in Atlanta.

Yeah. Well, I was going to say, I only

bring it up because I was listening.

I wanted to hear the proven conversation, you had.

And so, I went back and listened and I got to give Jay credit

like, Bringing up yummy Pollo is next level.

Knowledge of the cold, the water joints in Louisville, man.

I mean, that's, that's high level the rate.

This is just I'm serious. That's like, I already liked,

Jay Perman like he's bad at being retired, by the way, like,

what are you doing a Breeders Cup?

Your bad being words, like, stop it.

But well, I'll give him, but It was interesting to hear him

talk, that's fair enough the well and frankly if I see him

every year British come snuggle break my heart either.

So but the I'll roll out I'll buy the first drink.

Yeah. Right.

So but the other part of that is, you know, he talked about

Instead of, and I even thought about this myself, I said

because I say two people, one of the great things about horse

racing is that the tracks are in all of the best cities in

America. And so, if you travel for the

sport, you get to go to a bunch of great spots when their

weather now. Best, that's a good point,

right? So like, I imagined, yeah,

that's really a good point, right?

Like New York in June, Perfect, Right.

Baltimore minute now. Well, New York Mets would be

better, but having lived there. But early June, whatever, right?

It's still very straight. And then, you have any time is

fine? Yes, crime, with you on that

Miami and in late January 1st, right?

I mean all this stuff, right? So look, we do these Things, you

know, when it's when you're out in l.a. it's Insanity, early

April banged on perfect. You go to fairgrounds in

mid-February for the Risen star, something like that and you get

Mardi. Gras, you get, you know.

Yeah. You get, you know, you know,

it's like in the 60s, but you know what?

In Louisville, it's in the the 20.

So like it's already was in New Orleans, it was the Harbaugh

ball when the like, okay, that's it.

Oh my God, I'm in the bed. Hotel I've ever been in and the

weather broke well. And it was you know, when I

wasn't at the pool, you know, it's a whole.

Yeah. And that was February.

So yes, you are absolutely right about New Orleans.

And so it's just it's just one of those things and then, you

know, and I mean when is there a bad time to be?

It's a Diego there is it? And so it just it's one of those

things before. So I will, I will tell you one

badge, not sober. And the other time is what's the

San Diego handicapped? Same weekend.

Maybe comic-con's going on and I would, I would, you know, I want

to beat people with their selfie sticks during that time.

Drunk Comic-Con might be. All right, I'm not sure.

Anyways, the um, you know, if he's any better was to show up,

that would be a different story, you know?

But I was, you know, and then I made the case that, you know,

you travel for it. But but you're at the track 14

hours, or whatever it is, you know?

And so it's not the same as what Jay talked about which is look,

man, I'm going to go, you know, we want to get the South America

and do this. We want to, you know, blow this

time of year and so I appreciated his Candor about

Yeah, I really love this thing and it's been part of my life

essentially for him his whole life, right?

And so to oh yeah, to be able to have the awareness to say, yeah,

I need to step away. I need to spend time with my

wife, I need to travel. I need to see these other things

and otherwise I'd be eating at yummy Pollo again.

Like, I don't need to do that again and it was just a I just I

would love you, I wouldn't mind doing that, but I but I but no,

I wouldn't, I would suggest people.

Go listen to your podcast for that episode, if they have

Because no because I do think it was a fun back and forth between

it was between two guys who are clearly friends and that was a

because we weren't always, right?

But we have certainly become that and you know, that whole

thing I was telling you way back.

If you were, never back in your ancient history to about an hour

ago, when I was talking about how I couldn't get his

interpreters, as soon as I wanted to, Jay was part of the

reason for that because he was carrying the torch for what he

helped the the The, you know, the the the the Ivory Towers of

the turf writer should represent.

I don't mean that to sound as pejorative as I make, you just

didn't make a sound but he has set of standards that I really

respect. And I have adopted in some ways

so, you know, he's he he and Barbara Livingston also from the

form photographer, extraordinaire have taught me

some things about standards in, not just this business, but just

in general that I carry with, so yeah, from that standpoint.

That was the foundation that when I got off of my high horse,

they really oars stable Rubes had to be readjusted when I got

off that high horse. I finally, I this guy.

Yeah, he's he he's really well and so but but you know there I

recommended to him in that podcast.

You know your places you should go and Buenos Aires because I

went down there forever. Yeah.

And then go to a track at San Ysidro and but, but the good

news there was I'll take Louie. I got to leave whenever I damn

well want it because I had no assigned seats.

Oh yeah, well there is something to that to right, where like I

was in my wife had a conference in Fort Lauderdale and I just

popped over to Gulfstream. I'm like a random Thursday.

Yeah, I've done. There's nothing like that.

And I hung out with that was where I met both Bruno, giulio

and Alice Stewart. You know, one a friend, and one

a friendly Source I guess of for lack of a better word and I

don't mean like sources say Source.

I mean just a guy I go cover, you know.

So yeah. That was a good trip that I have

to. I have to say we've become the

In 322. And and a sincere, thank you to

Darren and Kevin. The guys, in the other, the

office over there at the Derby, is we have the same table every

year for Derby. Now, for our show, which means

it's terrific and 322. But we're also the guys who are

done working for the day at like 1:00.

All right, so how do you see all these people?

So, that's right. Number one people generally

nobody else, because they know like we got They're always, we

were there at 8:00 in the morning and setting up and do it

all the stuff we go on air. We do our thing.

We get done. And we're also the guys that

bring 50 cigars or something, right?

It, so, we're handed were those guys were hanging out, you know,

we're having fun and whatever else, but like at the same time,

you can kind of see people looking at us like, okay?

That's the cheat code right there.

Like being done at 1:00 on Derby Day, that's it.

No dead like good for that guy. Oh yeah, horse like itsy bit,

he's not doing anything. Yeah.

By the way. I well you know while we're at

it he is our North Star in the audio space in races way up

there, for sure. Yeah, you know I would hope to

remember what he has forgotten because he's forgotten but he

I'll give you. I'll give you one on Darrin,

Darrin Rogers. Kevin kirstine, the to PR guys.

Kevin wasn't there yet Darren and I go back 2007 with the

Derby. I've done every Derby except

covid since I was seven. So first or second year, I was

serving a sentence of Fox News Radio and so they would send me

to cover the Derby. Although I was coming anyway for

the for my Australian bosses because I still was working for

an Australian radio station. So that was my first entrée to

the derby for a long time. So once Darren and down was a

listener, may still be the Fox News Radio.

Probably listens to two wacky here in Louisville, which

carries? Oh yeah.

Right. And Darren would tell me I hear

you doing the news because I always hear you and you always

seem to be on when I'm shaving. Good news.

I ain't news for all those years that they said yeah.

Oh Darrin set me up at a table right outside the old Press Box

which is now billions or trillions rope.

Yeah. Right outside his office which

overlooked about the 16th hole. And it was a plush place to be.

It was a perfect place to set up and power at all the stealing

wife, early days of Wi-Fi, all that, well, I get there.

One of the day I need to setup and there's an NPR station

there. It's using my space.

Oh no and Darren guy, go Darrin, what's going on?

Here he goes. Well, you know, I don't know.

We're and I dare looks at them goes to.

What are you guys doing here at these guys say?

Well, we've been here every year since it was and Aaron's early

days. You just come from Lone Star.

Yeah. And he's like well, you know who

I take them at their word or kick them out.

And I look at Darren and I said, hey was I go?

I looked at the team from the NPR station.

I looked at Darren and I looked at my schedule.

I said where you guys going to be done They told me what time

they're going to be done and it was like my first hit for Fox

isn't until such and such a tight just finish what you're

doing, get on your way. Relax, I can set up over here,

I'll move over and I think I made a few points that day

because I was like do their thing.

It's like you said, you're out at one.

You're out of one on Derby Day. Last time I checked the Derby's

run pretty close to 7:00. So six hours is an eternity but

you've been Illustrated. Hopefully we have yes there's a

moral to the story listeners. He are long.

Freakin days the track their lives there, at my age, I need a

nap in the middle of the day and I will go to the men's room in

the media center, which is the simulcast Center during non

racing days. I've gone to that men's room.

Which often is either flooded or God, only knows.

And I've taken a nap in one of the, you know, the Stalls.

Oh I think it a 10, 15 minute, power nap.

Not my favorite thing to do but I will confess, I have done that

more than a few times in my 15 trips to the derby.

So there you go. You guys.

So I got that. I don't even know why I brought

this up. You still haven't even gotten to

jockeys. Breeders and owners.

So, you know, we'll get there. Maybe in February something.

I know because the stories these stories people love them

stories. We get, we get a lot of those

messages about these these kinds of stories, know they, they do

know you don't. So this, you know, this thing I

went to st. Store.

Last night, the guy was leaving his name is Jack and he is a,

he's into college basketball, like I'm in a horse racing and

so he. Okay is moving to Atlanta.

What's up? What's wrong with the Cardinals?

But anyway, so he he Um, he came to me last night.

He goes hey I would really appreciate it.

If I could talk to you about how to start a podcast in the best

way to do that, I thought and I thought good God is good.

God asked what a freaky compliment that is but also like

not pretty no. But we did it three years ago,

whatever, right. And so, and I said to him, I

said before anything starts. Here's the, here's rule.

Number one, two, three, and four, you gotta be yourself.

Yep, that on yourself I've said that to yeah because in long

form anything she breather she's going on too and she still

working out what she's going to do, but she has some

opportunities and she's going to choose from them and my advice

to her was bet on yourself. Yes.

Crash. Right.

Do what you want to do? Figure it out, figure it out.

If you're gonna sit there and muddle, like I did for like the

first snow 40 Years of my career and go to the least, confident,

go to the path of least resistance.

Well, then you get pushed. It around.

You get pushed around, go bet on yourself that and, you know, I

think I think our podcast and I'll toot our own horn for a

second is a good example of that because who would have thought

three years ago that a podcast called the Horse Racing, happy

hour would have two guys with Eclipse folks.

Oh, I can my name that you would do on me today.

My dear really? And so, I think it's a, it's a,

it's a, like you said, it's a testament to us.

We show up every week. We do the work every week, and

if you are willing to be yourself and make that

connection with your audience, that, hey, here's who I am,

here's what I enjoy. Here's what we're going to talk

about and we do it in the way that Mike and I only know how to

do which is but for us Like I said, we still do the show.

We're okay. That's a good thing brought.

Thank you that even in even in that new space and we talked

about it early on about getting that in TWA, be vote in

membership Frank and I consider it the membership more than

anything seen. It was Jenny Reese who wrote for

The Courier Journal. For every was Tim Wilkins who

stuck their necks out for us who.

Yeah. And John Sherman from the times

and all that. I mean those are those are what

don't mention me. Me.

I would have stuck my neck out except we had, I had to order.

I know you're busy, you're busy. I do know.

My point is we didn't we didn't think about it until you were

like, dude, what are you doing? All right.

Time to get a colonic thing. New Media comes back to your

thing about and Jenny Reese was like, Jenny Reese's line with to

me, was something like, what is this?

The Seventeen hundreds? Of course, we should have

podcasters in here. Well, she likes it.

She does get it. Tim does too.

It's cool. Actually, and and so that's a it

was just it was a man but what Mike has said to me to which I

really appreciate because I think he's being genuine about

it because I know I feel the same way is What we don't want

to happen, is that surf writing those play?

True. And this is a and this is an

opportunity to feature. Those people who do good work in

those spaces and they could come on our show and people who

listen to us, can can just describe those people.

Your piece on horse racing Nation about about

three-year-old male, everyone should read it, that likes horse

racing, everyone. It's excellent.

And you can't do that work on this podcast because you need to

be able to see the charts that are on.

Oh, it's the same that there's that.

There's the thing I did. Last week on carry Utes, I

didn't mention his name by accident earlier, I spent a half

hour with him at the Turfway on a very rainy night last, almost

two weeks ago now and oh, what a delight.

And here's the guy who is just so jaded in the sense that and I

don't mean that in a bad way, it's just like you know, you

when you seen it all you getting jaded.

Yeah he's seen it all. He's 68 and he's still riding

and he's heard every damn interview.

Who's going to come along go yeah he okay you're going to do

a feature on the old guy and I got the nicest text.

I got here recently was A compliment from him about the

piece. I wrote, it was like about a

almost 3,000. Some odd word.

Peace on his story is, is Journey and I went into it.

I said, Kerry, I think I know the first question.

I'm going to ask you. I never know the seven something

that you know, you're too young to remember Jack Paar.

But I suspect given the demographic of racing that there

will be a A number of your listeners.

You among those Sinners may remember Jack Parr and Jack Paar

had the great line when he hosted The Tonight Show.

Before Johnny Carson, Jack paar's best advice to Dick

Cavett when he was competing against Johnny Carson was don't

go out, do interviews. Have a conversation, have a

conversation. Louis, you figured that out Lily

Lily, this could be the beginning.

Louis you figured that out people who know in this Face.

Steve Beck. I'm into Steve Beck.

Who? I finally, you know?

He's like the Joe Franklin. But he's a conversation is,

you're totally right. Yeah.

Franklin was a conversationalist and Joe, Frank up and lasted.

How many years in the entertaining space?

50, 60 years. He's a conversationalist And

that's what it comes back to. The people who are coming along

and doing interviews are just. You know, it's like we have at

our at our place. I say listen, if you don't want

to put your name on it, it's not something you felt like you did

more than just. Somebody else was going to do,

just say it was by h.r. in staff.

But if you'll feel like you were proud of it, write your name on

it. It's your name on the same

thing. Put your name on it and it's

like you said, but do be you Yourself, be yourself that

producer who's headed to Atlanta, by the way, you may

remove 10 minutes ago, when Louis asked this question.

I guess it was about a producer going to Atlanta, who was at a

party at change that I was not invited to correct.

All that is correct. You know, be yourself that if

best advice is to be its advice, I've enclosed ago and it's not

even close Vice that works. Today, I learned that being a

high school teacher. I taught high school for three

years and you lie. I did.

A teacher for a long time. I was called professor.

And then when we moved here, something out, okay?

So, I did my graduate work in linguistics, and so I've, I've

taught Linguistics and French at the college level.

I also taught classes on Louis. You and I the arc I gotta go

home. And then at the high school

level I taught Spanish. And so it was, but it was in

high school teaching, high school that I learned that the

kids would, the kids would work hard if they felt like they were

getting an authentic version of you in front of them.

And and I don't and I think that translates and it was and I

learned it from other teachers actually.

So I remember there was a guy there.

So they're bullshit, made her pet.

I'm sorry, they're BS meter pegs.

No, that's exactly right. It's so like I would listen to

kids talk about other teachers who I knew were Either older and

unattractive or not interesting people, but they were themselves

and they were themselves with the kids and the kids could

sniff that out. And I remember thinking that's

it, that's it, that is it? And and I once we started doing

long-form stuff, I glommed onto that like that you would

believe. I'm give a final example and

we'll wrap up by. So I host a radio show in the

mornings with Dan Issel, who you had on your podcast talking

great, Kentucky Colonel grade. Denver Nuggets grade all those

things, and they Smith, former member Samer more cloth

Baltimore cash. By the way, I asked him about

that. He does not have any Baltimore

Clause here. All right.

Well, he said they had just older Memphis.

No, no. They've worked out in Memphis.

Tam's gear when he was in Baltimore, which made the

formerly owned by Charlie Finley, who owned the Oakland

A's for ref? Made me sad.

Anyway, so we had Goose Givens on.

Do you know the name Goose given?

Yeah, absolutely course. So goose is the The most

outstanding player for the 1978 Kentucky teeth gray, is the 48

in in Goose was the first African-American to store

thousand points in Kentucky. And we, we have him on now

because he replaced my practice year as the color analyst for

Kentucky, basketball on the radio and goose is a kid from

Lexington group, 10 minutes from the campus, until his junior

year of high school in the 70s. Assume he couldn't go to UK.

And so, because of his race. Yeah, because he's what.

And, and then Gob Hall gets the job, he integrates the team and

there's a moment his sophomore year at UK, where there's five

black players on the court at the same time and he has this,

oh my gosh, this is, this is happening kind of thing in his

head and and I so appreciate that he comes on our show and he

talks about those moments and one of the things he talked

about was and I'll never We'll never forget this.

He said, I didn't know if I was going to be comfortable going to

Kentucky, but when I was at Paul Dunbar High School in Lexington,

we would play out in the sticks at little schools and I would

see old white people with Kentucky basketball sweatshirts

on, or whatever, right, right. And they were always kind of and

he said, once I interacted with people who were in, who are fans

of Kentucky, and were kind to me as a visiting player, I knew

that I would be okay, okay? And it was that little story

stuff like that. We talked about Joe, be Hall

integrating the team being the coach, how he talked to players

about race, how he talked about, he never talked about directly

integrating the team but he said, hey, I don't care what you

look like. If you don't work hard, you're

not going to play. You know, I kind of stuff like,

like the things they need to separate.

You can imagine 50 years ago, right.

That Yeah, that we're just interested.

And I remember having that dinner with view with him and I

remember in my head thinking I can't ask that question, I can't

answer that question and then going but that's what I want to

ask. Oh and yeah people are listening

because because I ask the questions I want to ask, right?

And and then Goose answered it. And the answers were great.

And and so it really cemented. It for me was almost less than a

month ago. It really cemented for me, you

know, starting to high schoolers.

That's exactly. People know when you're being

genuine. People know when you're doing

genuine, it matters and that matters and so I don't know what

also matters is, you've established yourself already on

that basis. Once you have once you have

done. So once you use the framework in

the bulwark of racing handicapping, whatever to

establish yourself, then you can kind of get a little more leeway

to do what you want. It's like you'll think when I

first got to Australian, I cracked a joke on the air and it

laid an egg, you can smell from here to Australia.

Okay, yes, I cracked the same job.

Three years later, having have three years there.

As I've said, a Thousand Nights. I slept there.

I said one thing, I cracked the same joke and they laughed.

Like it was like the biggest in the funniest thing they've ever

heard and sometimes the laughs are built on that knowledge of

Who You Are. But if you just keep building on

who you are and not who you pretend to be be who you are,

not who you pretend to be, you'll be fine.

It may take some time but you'll be fine.

His name is Ron flattered. That was later on Twitter.

Yeah and acronis Racing for my for my owner and well yeah

because you know they have I got to go.

Well, you know, don't you have to go ear odd, number one

flavian to, and show L3. And who else we got owners or

driving within the top two on the jock side?

Because I think if Flavia and head, I RADS mounts.

He'd have a better year. No, I hear you, but he didn't

and fair enough and I go, I go good dolphin Summer Wind and

Stonestreet for breeders because you got to give credit to do to

Summerwind for flight line and I think SEO.

And horse of the Year. Flightline Nest.

Life is good. One, two, three.

How's that for burying the lead? Whoo.

Like I said, I think the three-year-old male article the

rounded is as good as anything he's done.

And I also do think the interview is a proven his worth

listening to because it is, it felt like our show actually

Vaughn where there were just two guys sitting around him are

talking about their travel and that kind of stuff.

I was I was actually very jealous.

That's all So good job, crap, stuff there.

And if you ever see Ron at Saints, buy him a beer.

All right? And then I'll tell you more

about, you know, I'm a man. All right, Ron, I appreciate it

very much. We should do this way more

often, but it's probably better. That we don't keep our gigs.

Keep it fresh. All right, sir.

Thank you, thank you. Likewise everyone out there as

well. Of course, go check out Mike's

interview with EJ Clark, local Legend here.

The reason the show exists is EJ Clark.

Invited Mike, to start doing Derby coverage about a dozen

years ago and so without that I have, obviously we wouldn't be

anywhere near what we're doing and that I will have the only

man who's ever been my editor, his name is, John surely he will

be on tomorrow as well for a year interview Ron I really

appreciate it. Like you said, Happy New Year,

we'll talk soon booyah. Of course, go check out Mike's

interview with EJ Clark, local Legend here.

The reason the show exists is EJ Clark.

Invited Mike, to start doing Derby coverage about a dozen

years ago and so without that I have, obviously we wouldn't be

anywhere near what we're doing and that I will have the only

man who's ever been my editor, his name is, John surely he will

be on tomorrow as well for a year interview Ron I really

appreciate it. Like you said, Happy New Year,

we'll talk soon booyah.