Breaking News: Churchill Meet Moved to Ellis Park

All right, welcome in. Emergency move to Ellis Park

episode of the horse-racing happy hour will still do that.

For no reason Johns River joins us from the LA Times a gesture

of on Twitter. John I brought you in because

unfortunately you are a veteran at this type of frankly.

This type of case, we have a very unusual thing happening

today. People are not up on it, we have

seen now from the recommendation of the federal government,

frankly from the highest, a group that Churchill Downs cease

Racing at their track and CD at a here in Louisville, move

things somewhere else is been the decision made they'll race

through the weekend Saturday at Ellis next week.

John, what was your sort of response here and a people don't

know. John's background here.

He covered unfortunately was a 20-19.

Yes. Yes, the track issues at Santa

Anita where they had some of the freezing in the lot of rain and

lots of different things that happen.

John, what was your takeaway from this one?

Well, I frankly was surprised and for a couple of reasons And

and the surprise evolved over the afternoon.

The fact that Churchill stopped racing was not a surprise at

first, but then when they decided they were going to do it

for the rest of the meat which includes the Stephen Foster, it

became a bigger surprise. And then when I saw their, their

press release which are news release, which they tried to

hide the lead, which is where they say in in alignment with a

recommendation from Hi, Sofia and then haisa came out with its

own release. That pretty much says yeah we

asked them to shut down the remainder of thing.

Now what this is is this is a classic case of cognitive

cognitive dissonance in that o. Our track is safe.

Oh we're moving because our track is not safe, right?

You know or because we think it may not be safe.

I mean this is the position that Churchill Downs is in Not a

position there used to be an n and it I think it's a very

significant thing at also cements or at least says haisa

is is real. You know, we haven't seen a real

before we've seen them kind of playing around, but we haven't

seen them real living. What do you think?

I look Lazarus shows up to Kentucky and they move the race.

They move the meat to Ellis freaking Park John.

I mean, that's unbelievable. I mean, it's at least, I

shouldn't say unbelievable, I guess all things are believable

in horse. Racing are ridiculous sport that

we love but it is it's unfathomable to me that Ellis

Park which handled less than 50 million dollars.

Last year in 23, raised days while Churchill Downs, stayed

over 600 million dollars, obviously, including, you know,

Derby different things. Just in the spring me.

I mean the move to that and just the logistics of getting horses

back and forth because the horses aren't going to leave the

Barnes of Churchill Downs. They don't have the ability to

hold that number of horses at Ellis Park period.

This is a, it's a stunning move and John, I would love your

opinion on this. I think you and I are going to

have side by side pieces. Yours is in a slightly bigger

publication, but the I'm of the opinion, this is not a track

issue. As much as it is, we're running

horses that shouldn't be running issue.

Because if it were a trackage, I think would be seeing breakdowns

for example, during training and we're not seeing those jump.

Now I there are a bunch of different.

We can go sure that we should bundles.

First of all, you know haisa, reported the dentist more

results. The one thing you're talking

about cushioning cushion layer, I'm looking at a press release

daily measurements on what they did was the quality of the

equipment and I've heard that Churchill has equipment that is

basically Lee only a step ahead of an will.

You're probably too young to remember that when they used to

drag baseball fields with a chain link fence in a truck?

You know, to do that is is that I've been told that from very

credible people that the Churchill equipment is not up to

many of the other tracks. Now that could be wrong but

that's what I heard them surprised that was not part of

the report and there's a lot going on here than there is a

lot going on. You know, we both heard the

Members of the rocks in the surface.

Let's face it. Every surface has rocks.

We even heard Ron moquette say yesterday, they had a horse off

yesterday out of precaution, right?

And he said it was a rock ruse, he let he's put on Twitter.

So, I mean, this is, people are being very public about what

this is. Yeah.

Yeah, I think you go back to 2019 and and I frankly can

cannot get anybody to say this on the record because I may not

have ever been said, but it was a feeling in a perception that

when Santa Anita Went real south with all their fatalities, and I

will admit that it took Santa Clarita.

Say, I need a longer to admit, it then Churchill did.

But then Churchill will run on the eve of the Kentucky Derby.

I mean, right sometime, they may not have been as either, you

know, is it's really, a difficult situation for the

track, to have to, to deal with something.

Which maybe, maybe statistical anomaly, I don't know.

Out and but you know, 2019 was really the wake-up call.

I talked to dr. Jeff Bland today the the echoing

medical director of the California horse racing board

and one of the things we're talking about is the cultural

differences between California and Kentucky.

No question. And you know, we were well into

sixteen Seventeen at Santa Anita before it was actually buy sell

Off, who sort of said, oh wait a minute, it seems like more than

normal and let's get it right out there.

The right number is 0, it's not obtainable, but that's the right

number. Yeah.

And then say need a sort of waited and waited.

And I think we're up to like 23 or something before racing was

suspended. So, you have those those

anyways, I was talking about what Leo was saying and he was

talking about the cultural difference and I think I've said

it on your On your pod and I know I've said it on radio, is

that horses? Can dine Kentucky and people

don't care. Quite as much as people in say,

California but now maybe that's changed, right?

Maybe there's a little bit of difference.

I also talked to some other sources who wonder where I want

to clarify something. You just said, I don't think

they'd, it's not that people don't care.

I think it's that they're they're less.

They consider it more a part of the sport than it than it is,

you know, acceptable in California.

I think, I think people care, but I, and I do, I know you're

not trying to be flip about it, but I do think it's, it's more

of an accepted part of the sport here.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. And that wasn't meant to be

flipped, but it was just under, shh.

Yeah, it was it was just that. It's, they're used to it, right?

Yeah. Right now I've talked to a

couple sources who thought that Bashir might have been somewhat

behind this but I think that proved out to be false because

Was I think it was Health totally haisa and Churchill

doesn't take the backseat or listen to too many people and

the fact that they're listening to haissam, which then let's go

back to when high school was first introduced.

Churchill was opposed to it, of course, you know.

And if you go back to the press conference that the the oh,

let's let's Kiss the Ring of Mitch McConnell for putting this

together press conference. Where Drew Fleming of the breed

Cup, you know, just praised him, five times, Mitch 55 times

carcinogen, or the Churchill, I think it was cursed, agent was a

Churchill rep. Did not praise McCallum, once,

right? It's because as I understand it

that, you know, he was sort of forced into this.

And now we're seeing kind of the results of that.

And again, I'm not saying whether Isis good or bad, but

this is actually the first sign. I think that I say, has some

life to it but it's awake. It's not a corpse.

It's Actually doing something putting pressure on, probably

the biggest trap, you know, not even though I think it's not

even arguable the most important track in America, even though

they don't rust, they really don't run a lot of Churchill

Downs, but they run the One race that everybody cares about.

So so I think you know again this is this was a

earth-shattering earth you know, ground moving kind of day

because Really, this is this is the day when you write the

history of high. So however long it is whether

it's the old one year or ten years or 100 years, there's an

intro and then this is chapter one.

This is this is the day that high.

So you know, Flex its muscles. Yeah.

It's fascinating because we all wondered and I'm sure and I know

we talked about it. You and me how much teeth was

this actually going to have this federal government involvement

in horse racing? And we are immediately seeing it

at frankly, the most iconic track in this hurry, and I don't

know if people around the country, understand the

difference between Churchill Downs and Ellis Park, I mean, if

for Southern California, folks, it's like Delmar to low Sal like

but like a bad low cell like that, that's the difference.

We're moving to Henderson Kentucky for the Stephen

freaking Foster, John. Yeah, I mean, I've never, I've

never been to Ellis Park, i-i'm. Not sure I ever will be.

I mean, if Turfway did not have Synthetic Turf way, would have

been the better choice but you're not going to change

everything. It's way closer.

It's yes, the facilities nicer. Yes, I agree.

But, but it's so that your listeners know.

I mean, Churchill does own elves park, that's why that was the

obvious choice. I mean, that's the other thing.

I was going to say, that's the unique part about the Kentucky

Circuit, is that one group owns multiple tracks, right?

So, it's not and so saying, Anita while they own multiple

tracks in California, it isn't like, oh, we're going to shut

down to move everything to Golden Gate.

Know you're on the Southern Cal, you know, the SoCal circuit you

have to stay down there or you know what Ever that looks like

and so in 2019, when I shut down happens, it's a different.

It's a different look than what it happens at Churchill, because

they're able to immediately shift racing to another spot.

Right. Absolutely.

And also think one other factor to is I wonder if in the

background cheerful saying we don't want to do this but we

will do it because if we can just get past next weekend get

past the Belmont. Then the interest in horse

racing, you know, drops off, you know, drops off a ledge.

As the Belmonts, the last thing and that the last race of the

Triple Crown, and then it doesn't really, I mean, Stephen

Foster's great, but it's let's face it.

It's kind of a regional thing with a great with, very good

horses, good horses. But Regional, I agree and I see

this a great one again, but I mean, I get it.

Yeah. Yeah.

But then you almost have to wait till the Breeders Cup which is

it's a nanometer to see how things go.

So this is, you know, this was a big day.

This is a big day. I mean, and also So let's credit

the horse racing Nation for breaking breaking the first I

agree. Yep.

DeRosa seem to have the scoop there.

Yep he did. And then Matt Haggerty got it

from the RF. I held off until I didn't write

until actually Churchill announced it because you know in

horse racing it's a big deal. But horse racing isn't a big

deal in the LA times. So I just I just wanted to wait

until we had the official confirmation, although I had it

from some other sources that it was it was just started.

Buzzing. Do you have yesterday's?

So yeah, I'm not in the news, breaking business locally so I

don't have to worry about that not of the horse racing cyclist.

But you know, what do you think ends up?

You talked about that book. They're going to write about

high system day. What what will this be a

positive chapter in their history or a negative or sort of

just a they did what they had to do?

Kind of chapter? What do you think?

It'll all end up being job? Oh, I think it's definitely a

positive one because basically it's showing that they're

willing to do what it takes to make the hard decision.

And now they don't have the authority to close Churchill

Downs, and I go back to the Lisa Lazarus, presser that she held

earlier this week, at forgot, what day it was Tuesday or

Wednesday, and where she said, she didn't think they have the

power to do it, but that she was confident, Churchill would

follow their recommendation and that's what Churchill did now,

what is the, what power does? Those haisa have to keep

Churchill in line is they can shut off their simulcast signal

outside of the Right. So that's a that's a bit

because, you know, I'm just going to make up this figure but

90% of banning is it's 95 is done on just on phones.

Yeah. It's on silent computers phones.

Yeah, right, yeah. So so that, you know, that's a

pretty big lever to handle or pretty big hammer to hold and

and they exercised it, you know, it's I think that when, when I'm

in New York next week. And will you be in New York next

week? We're not going.

Oh, that's too bad. I saw you for 18 minutes in

Baltimore. So when you did come

That doesn't serve beer or alcohol or something because

it's all over beer. But um, really it's where

lunches served. Yeah, it's him and we did shows

during lunch. That's yeah.

All right. So, you know, I mean, you

mentioned Santa Anita and them going, you know, before you even

noticed it it was more deaths than what we're talking about at

Churchill right now that Rachel its kind of current that it was

more total deaths. But the one month period that

Churchill had when it hit 12 it's more concentrated it Clips

to anyone. Any 30-day period it's Antigua

which is kind of a misnomer because they shut down for three

weeks. Yeah.

Is that is there are two questions I guess.

Does Churchill get any credit for moving it?

And the second part are you surprised they just said, rest

of the meat, we're out of here. The second one is easier to

answer because you know yes I was incredibly surprised I got I

thought that they would like okay we'll give up the win will

go for a couple weeks and then we'll come back for the Foster.

So that was a big surprise. This Churchill get me cry.

I'm really I find it hard in my heart to give credit to

Churchill. That's why I asked because

because they're not erasing company, there are gaming in

real estate company. They wait.

It's worth mentioning, they waited until after the stock

market closed today to make this announcement.

Yes, 5:00. Yep, yep.

And you know, I Churchill cares about racing five days, maybe

four or five days a year and that's that's it.

Now, if I were an investor which I am not owning Churchill stock

to the reason playing. I mean, the guys have made a lot

of money for their investors. So, you know, I just Just I just

think to view them, altruistic lie as this company that loves

horse racing and wants to do whatever.

Can for horse racing is completely fraudulent that horse

racing is a vehicle to make their stockholders money.

There it is. He's John surveys from the only

times. Do you think we see this more

often or do you think this is more of?

Is there any chance that this is just a shot across the Bow by

haisa to establish? Kind of like, you know, the

first day you get to prison. You remember your first day in

prison jump, like you have to beat somebody up to establish

dominance at the top of the prison who is this Heist of

doing something like that? Or is this really?

Hey, you guys have a serious problem.

You gotta you gotta shut raising down.

Well obviously, we all hope this is the only time we have to deal

with this, right because right? Nobody nobody not even Churchill

Downs, who have been critical of?

What were you or you who writes about it all the time can or

yeah, I mean it just sucks. I he's a Taurus podcast, I hate

writing about horse death but yet that's what I seem to do a

lot of the time which I mean my whole life changed in 2019.

When I wrote tens of thousands of words on it, and One of my

Belmont preview pieces is a sort of a primer for people who don't

know, because it's the one question that when you cover

horse racing people ask well, why can't these horses survive?

And I hope to answer that and I spent a lot of time with you

have Boya, the see hrp that coin, medical director today on

the phone. But you know, I think there was

a, I give Lisa Lazarus credit, she did the tough move.

She she made She made the recommendation and it's really

like, she volley the ball back into the court of Churchill.

This is okay. We can make this recommendation.

What are you gonna do? Because then if they volley it

back and say, no, right? Well, then we go back to saying,

I need a 2019 when after I don't know what death number was it

was in the 20s but it was during the Belmont weekend because I

remember I was in my hotel room at the Belmont.

Trying to chase down the story with the CHR be asked Santa

Anita to close down for the remainder of the season and

Santa Anita said, no. Now subsequently since that, the

CHR be has had legislation passed that says they can't

close them down. So in some ways to this is also

a reflection of poem, the weakness of the cage.

RC. You know, they don't they don't

see, you know, they just they would they were there for the

you know for the Forte thing and for the Fort a Saturday morning

not really work out but just sort of Jog and I'll be honest

Louis. I don't watch workouts because I

don't know what I'm looking at. Yeah sure yeah I know if they're

really good or really bad. Yeah that's that's why I watch

workouts because I know when they're terrible or great.

That's right there. Yeah.

So I don't do that and and I talked to somebody that I really

trust. That said yeah, Forte was late.

Hmm. And this is a like a good name,

a really good name. Told me that this is okay.

I couldn't tell I wouldn't tell but the khr see sort of, you

know, stretch his muscles stretches, its cash a then but

they've really been kind of absent so far.

It's been like CGI in high. So Well, he's Johns River, LA

Times. A JC, herw.

A on Twitter, gesture of on Twitter, go find his stuff

there. I'm sure your article be going

up online. At some point today.

Do you think that one makes print?

it'll probably be condensed down into a lot of the stuff just

goes into what we call news wire, which is a compilation of

the stuff because you know, it's it's we have a very small print

section right and do does it, how does it affect people in

California if it's something happens in Churchill Downs, but

I'll have plenty of stories in print next week from the Belmont

where I did lose your early Belmont pick Um temperature.

It's not that. Okay.

Because campus win the Belmont, that's what they do.

Yeah. Yes they did other Tapper it's

easily. My biggest roof.

Yeah it's a it's probably my best win bet ever at the moment.

That sounds right. Oh okay so you got a okay well

then that's good. Soul of the before the Derby it

did work out here. They waited for the Belmonte

goes back and he's just do runs all over people's great.

Yeah, you know, John, I appreciate you jumping on, I'm

very short notice. John did the professional thing

by the way? John's a pro people need to

know. He said, I have a story to file

young person that I barely know but after that I will come on

your ridiculous podcast and talk to you about church announced

from the Santa Anita perspective of course as well.

So John appreciate the time. We'll check you out.

Next time Zach, we playing music or we just gonna get out of

here. Thanks for joining us on the

emergency edition of Theresa caviar blue, hang up Johns River

closed.