KY Racing Spotlight for 8/2/24

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Liquor Store. Welcome to the Kentucky Racing

Spotlight with Louis Rubbo, presented by the Kentucky HBPA.

Now here's Louis Rubbo. All right.

Welcome in to an August. 2nd. Version of the Kentucky Racing

Spotlight with Louis Rubbo. I'm Louis Rubbo here in the

studios of ESPN 680-1057 in Louisville.

Thanks for making us part of your horse racing weekend here

on the Spotlight. We are.

Presented as we always are. By the Kentucky HBPA KYHBP a.com

I want to thank all the folks over there.

Go check out the website. If you are a horse person in

need of some help or some representation, or want to know

what it is that they do, go check them out.

KYHBP, a.com, and heck, if you're just a fan.

Great photos, great articles from around the Commonwealth.

We'll take care of you as far as the replays and get you ready

for races as well. Last weekend we saw some cool.

We saw some cool races. We'll talk about those first,

our second. Segment will be our guest of the

week. His name is Eric Camelback.

He's the he's the president of the national HBPA and by being

in that in that role, he is essentially, you know,

representing horse horsemen, horse women across the country.

And look typical job an interesting job.

Obviously he has an angle on this that is from his angle, and

certainly there's other angles of the ways to look at Thurber

Racing. But I've always found Eric to be

very transparent, very honest and very forthcoming about

things that he sees in the sport and what he thinks will make

Thurber Racing even better as we go through a restructuring the

sport at the current time around the state of Kentucky and

frankly around the country. And so we'll talk to him second

as we go through the show. And then finally.

I'll close with some of my handicapping.

It is Kentucky Downs preview weekend at Ellis Park.

Great racing both Saturday and Sunday.

They're on the turf in Henderson.

Really excited for the P patches.

Look, the the Ellis Park Derby still coming up.

So not the biggest, biggest weekend, but boy, a bunch of

fun. Quarter $1,000,000 plus races

going on down there. We'll talk about all of those as

well. But hey, last weekend we got

those kinds of results that make you scratch your head And the

first one came in the Vanderbilt.

It's great. It's a grade one.

It's a six for a long race up at Saratoga, 350K and the Kitty

there. And I, I talked to Scott Shapiro

last week. I had to cap for Scott Shapiro

and I said, man, I'm just going to have to let Nakatomi beat me.

I just, I don't know why that horse is five to two here.

And of course, horse goes on to wins for fun in the Vanderbilt,

gets that grade one and it it sets himself up to be one of the

contenders for the Breeders Cup dirt Sprint when we get there in

November. And you know, he does the dart

thing at Sertoka. Beats a pretty good field,

frankly, with three other horses that I thought were better

contenders than have. Including Baby Yoda.

And here we are just one of those that it just didn't make

sense to me on paper. But boy, that's thoroughbred

racing for you, that's gambling for you.

And that horse comes flying through, goes ahead and wins the

Grade 1 Vanderbilt, obviously first grade one for Nakatomi

after returning from the Arabian Peninsula.

I think one of the more difficult to figure out angles

in handicapping is how are horses going to come out of

races in Dubai, in Riyadh, in those sorts of places when

they're back stateside for the first time?

Usually there's a bump and you don't get the the performance

that you want if you're a trainer, an owner, whatever you,

whatever you might be. But in this case, man Nakatomi

just simply the best in the Vanderbilt.

And then you go to the Dandy 4 races later and you get

fierceness and the version that we think that fierceness can be

and should be, if not all the time, most of the time.

But what we've? Discovered with fierceness is

that it's half the time. And so with fierceness.

It can get frustrating. It's frustrating to watch great

horses not be great all the time.

It really is, and I think it's worth mentioning though that if

he does put it together, sometimes it just takes horses

longer and we forget that they're three-year olds.

And I talked about this with several people in the last

couple of weeks. But we all.

Say we're not going to hold the Kentucky Derby against horses,

and then we go ahead and do it right if a horse finishes up the

track of the Kentucky Derby, most of us say.

And I think we mean it. We say, oh, we're just going to

draw a line through that. It's twenty horses.

It's the first Saturday in May. There's 150,000 people.

Horses have never been on their lights.

Before blah blah blah blah blah. And I think we mean it.

I think we really want to be the kind of observer that says, you

know what? That was the Derby.

That was twenty horses. No problem.

But man, do we do it. Is that something we actually go

ahead and do? I don't think we do.

I think it's something that we should strive to do.

And I say the we, I'm using the royal we here because I'm

definitely including myself and maybe fierceness is the best 3

year old. Maybe he is, he runs like that.

He's going to win a lot of races.

Because most. Most.

Of the races left in his life are going to be at a mile and an

eighth or shorter. There'll be a mile and a quarter

spots for sure. British Cup Classic comes to

mind. But most of his races are going

to be at a mile and an eighth and I think for him at least

that'll suit him well moving forward.

Can he get rid of being in every other type?

Which I was told by the way as well, not handicapping Gaggle

boy, it sure seems to be. But in the case of fierceness,

maybe we did see his best version.

Maybe he's ready to take a step forward.

So in back-to-back weekends, we get Dornik, who gets out front,

stays out front, really fights in the lane, does a great job,

has a really great relationship with Luis Saez.

And then you come back and you you've got fierceness and what a

bizarre horse. But boy, he put it together.

And if he could put it together again, say in the traverse,

we're going to have a really interesting conversation about

the Breeders Cup Classic. And I'm starting to wonder about

Sierra Leone and something I hate for that horse.

Or at least for. Those of us.

Who think the best days are certainly ahead is he's a $2.3

million purchase and I wonder if they're going to leave him on

the track rather than sending him, you know, a son of gun

runner to the breeding shed even with, you know lesser sorts of

accomplishments and those sorts of things.

Well, they just sent him to the breeding shed because he's a

$2,000,000 purchase. And, and my hope is, and I

mentioned this on a show the other night that I did, my hope

is that we actually see him like we saw his dad as a four and

five year old where he. Was at his.

Very best. And those gun runner babies are

doing fine, Sierra Leone included.

So hopefully we'll get a full 3 year old and full 4 year old

campaign out of Sierra Leone at least and get to see him run

like his dad later in his career.

I think he's capable of great things.

He's just so disinterested at the starts of races.

And you cannot do that when you're up against good

competition because you'll end up doing what he does, finishing

second and third, losing by a length, length and a half, two

lengths. Get good checks for sure.

Do good checks. That's $1,000,000 race over the

weekend or half million dollars. Excuse me.

Then the Jim Dandy get good checks.

But if you want to be like your dad, if you want to be like gun

runner, you got to go and win those races.

And then a horse that's the opposite of everything we just

talked about is the chosen Bron. He goes ahead, he wins the Bing

Crosby. Again, if you don't know the

story, the the chosen Bron, he's a cow bred.

They bred him for three grand and or maybe 3500.

Let me make sure I've got my number's totally right.

But they go ahead and they breed him and he turns out to be a

fine sprinter and they run him in a bunch of cow bred stakes

and they should. Those are $100,000 races.

He went, he went to 300,000 in earnings as a three-year old, as

a four year old, you know, a couple thousand.

He goes over 600 last year. He's already over a half million

dollars this year and he's running a bunch of races, 24 of

them he's won. Nineteen of them.

He's only missed the board in two races, two starts out of 24.

The horse has been in the top three, eight, the 19, excuse me,

of those wins, 5 for five this year, grade one, Bing Crosby,

the Thor's Echo, the Kona Gold. He wins the grade 3 San Carlos

before that. And of course the the Don

Valparaito, which was the California Cup at Santa Anita.

This horse, I mean, look his, his life has been out West.

The furthest he's traveled is turf Paradise.

Otherwise it's all Santa Anita, Del Mar and Los Alamidos.

But man, if he isn't fun And can't you dream a little for the

son of Ronsky? The son of Ronsky isn't that

great, isn't it? Can't you dream a little about

the Breeders Cup? Ran a.

Huge. Number in the last race he beat

a good field. Two people close the game.

Sugar showed off at Churchill last time.

He bested him by over two lengths.

Jack's Town's an interesting project and prod.

You know, potential is there out of the Baffert barn runs third

under Juan Hernandez, another length and a half back.

See through it Anarchist who was second in this race last year.

Happy Jack was in this race coming off a two wins included a

graded win. It's a good field, man.

It's a good field. And another $240,000 check for

the little old horse that could $3500 breathing job.

Nothing wrong with any of that. So it's fun.

It's fun seeing horses like that.

I root for horses like that. I'm not sure if anyone else

does, but I'm sure if I do, there's someone out there that

does as well. I'm Louis Ribow.

This is the Kentucky Racing Spotlight.

We're presented by the Kentucky HBPA.

Up next, we talk with Eric Camelback.

He's the he's the guy. At the National HBPA, he talks

with us. We haven't talked to him since

Derby wanted to catch up with him after the National HB.

HBPA Conference. Easy for me to say, and we'll do

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Welcome back to the Kentucky Racing Spotlight on ESPN 680 and

105.7. Now, here's Louis Rabeau.

All right, welcome back in. This is the Kentucky Racing

Spotlight with Louis Rabeau. I'm Louis Rabeau at Radio Louie

on Twitter. You can find the show at KY

Racing spotlight in our station, of course at ESPN 680.

We are live at the studios of ESPN 680.

Appreciate you making us part of your horse racing weekend.

Really happy to bring in my friend Air Campbell back.

He is the, he will tell you who he is, but he's with the

National HBPA. He's at Eric the Tiger on

Twitter if you want to go call him names over there.

Eric, good to talk to you. It's been since Derby that we

actually recorded something. We've we've chatted, but not in

any kind of official capacity. How has the summer been?

Frankly, a, a surprisingly busy and sort of momentous one on the

legal side of things. I know you're no attorney or

anything like that, but a busy summer for you all for sure at

the National HBPA. Yeah, it really has.

Louis, thanks for having me on again.

I I really appreciate the opportunity.

It's been very busy. You know, we've continued to try

to to right the ship, so to speak, on the Horse Racing

Integrity and Safety Act and voice our concerns, you know,

obviously based around litigation.

And on July 5th, the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals came down once

again ruling aspects of the Horse Racing Integrity and

Safety Act unconstitutional. So, so yeah, that's put that's

put quite a accelerator on my summer, which led very quickly

into our conference where we started on July 24th and it's

pretty much been peddled down since then.

Eric Campbell back with us and I wanted to clarify before I go

any further with in an interview with Eric.

The show is presented by the Kentucky HBPA, but no one asked

me to have Eric on the show. I just like having Eric as a

guest. He's he's very knowledgeable.

He is in touch with all these issues.

Is he on one side of the aisle on things?

For sure he is, but he at least answers my text messages when I

ask him to come. On these shows.

And so I just wanted to say that that it wasn't as though Eric

called me and said, hey, man, I'm overdue to be on your show

or anything. It wasn't like that at all.

And something that happened most recently.

You're out of Prairie Meadows, by the way, for your national

meeting and Doctor Doug Daniels was re elected as the board

chair, the president there for the HBPA.

Does he like you number one? I mean, are you going to keep

this job? I think so.

OK, good. OK.

Yeah, no, that's that's very much a positive.

You know, Doug is is great. And I said once before, and I

think even in the press release coming out of the conference, I

think the organization as a whole is very, you know, in a

very good place right now to have a veterinarian at the helm

as president and chairman of the board.

I mean, Doug is obviously an owner and a breeder of race

horses, but having the expertise and the space of veterinary

medicine right now, specifically Equan Sports medicine, really

means a lot. And it certainly gives.

Many people would agree with me the credence behind our

messaging, right? We're we're not obstructionist.

We're trying to do what's right by the horse.

We have the best interest of equine health and welfare at

heart. And when you have a veterinarian

at the helm, that really kind of drives home the message.

Something you mentioned to me over Derby week, we're talking

with their camelback from the National HPPA.

It was, was the agrarian nature of the sport and how we seem to

have lost some kind of vision of that.

And I don't know at what point. And I don't know that you can

pinpoint it either during the 20th century in in thoroughbred

racing in North America with a person like Doctor Doug Daniels

at the helm of your organization, at least on the

board side of things. You know, you you've talked

about this agrarian nature. I hear people talking about

horse racing in a very negative way.

I look at the current state of horse racing as being at a

reorganization, you know, restructuring where it is that

we run this sport, where the best places are for thoroughbred

racing and. You know, it's, it's interesting

to see someone like Doctor Daniels get a second term,

another. Is it three years?

Correct. Yeah, Yeah.

So another three years at the helm, you know, with the

scientific background that you talked about, does that kind of

fit with what you were telling me over Derby week where there

is this agrarian nature of the sport, but also just the

veterinarian, you know, helping the horses in the way that you

talked about maximizing the athletes that way?

It really does, Louis. And you know, you touched on it

and gave me a piece that I've used since then.

And it's, it's that centralization, so to speak, of

horse racing in, in the middle of the country.

I mean, and Doctor Daniels is, is in Virginia, his practice is

in Virginia, his life is in Virginia.

But he grew up in Kansas, right? His, his, his parents were

owners and breeders. They were a part of the Kansas

HBPA when there was a racetrack in Kansas.

You know, he, he grew up racing in Nebraska and, and Kansas.

And that mentality, I think that again, agrarian base that really

is at the heart of horse racing in the horse racing industry,

He's got that, he's grounded, you know, and, and you know,

again, like me growing up in Louisiana, that that was part of

our culture as agriculture, not just as horse racing.

So I think there is some separation when you look at the

coast so to speak and the way that our society as a whole.

And like you said, I can't pinpoint it.

But at the end of the day, I know in my own lifetime growing

up as you know, 12/13/14 year old kid to now 54 year old adult

professional in the industry, there are separations from

agriculture that have caused some of the shrinkage you might

say, in our industry. I I believe that wholeheartedly.

Yeah, The thing we talked about was I, I equated the moves in

horse racing to being similar to what's happened at our college

sports in this country where there's no PAC 12 anymore,

right? And, and the centers of power in

college sports are in Texas and Illinois, right?

And, and it's just sort of the nature of where the culture's

flowing right now. But you know, for much of my

childhood, Eric, the the very best and brightest went to

California. They just did, whether they were

in the tech industry or they were talented, you know,

writers, actors, musicians, whatever, they went to Los

Angeles that that was something you just did.

But now some of the very best of the talented.

Folks are going to Nashville, TN.

Right. Or going to, you know, to North

Carolina, to Atlanta, those sorts of places that are more.

You know not. Necessarily non coastal, but

they're in different parts of the country than before.

And this is these are things that just happened in our

culture in general, and it shouldn't be surprising to any

of us that in a time of reorganization and horse racing,

we get back to the middle of the country.

Exactly. No, I I I completely agree.

Completely agree. Yeah, I it's, it's not

surprising to me that the tech capital of the world in the Bay

Area would be one of the spots. That would lose.

Its horse racing first. I'm not kidding, because you're

so far from the agrarian base that it would be something that

would just kind of fade away. But Eric Hamelback is with us

from the National HBPA. We are presented by the Kentucky

HBPA here on Kentucky Racing Spotlight.

I'm Louie Robot at Radio Louie on Twitter.

Go find me there. You get back from your big

shindig at Prairie Meadows. Talk about Prairie Meadows a

little bit, man. Jenny couldn't shut up.

About it I was. Anytime I hear it and he's like,

well, Jenny Reese, you know, there's a lot of talking, but

you know, whenever she gets excited about something, it's

not by accident. You've you've held them up.

You even talked about them during Derby week.

As kind of a place. That's trying new things, is

innovating, is getting better. What's going on at Prayer

Meadows that you see that you like?

Well, just the fact that they are engaging with the fan base

and getting people to the races again, you know, I absolutely

love Tampa Bay Downs, right? I, I, I love Canterbury.

Obviously I love Oak Lawn, kind of growing up in North Louisiana

between Louisiana Downs and Oak Lawn.

But when you look at place like Prairie Meadows and a place like

Canterbury, you know, and I think Nebraska is really, really

going to hit a big splash in the near future, you know, kind of

smaller race tracks when you think smaller from a from a

grandstand standpoint. But at the end of the day, there

are tons of people on the apron. There are families on the apron.

There are people there enjoying the races.

I mean, you know, Prairie Meadows has done something that

I really appreciate having to been having been to several

racinos. You know, they highlight racing.

I mean, you walk into the joint, right?

You walk in to the hotel or to the Conference Center and even

into the casino door itself. They have horse racing on the

walls. They have beautiful artwork that

depicts the, the, the racing and they they play this commercial

before the races start each day. And it talks about the economic

drivers of horse racing of, you know, horse racing for the state

of Iowa. And it's really impressive.

And you can tell that they embrace that and they and they

bring people out. I mean, nowhere other than

Prairie Meadows have I actually been where people are at the

casino, looking out at the racetrack and stopping what

they're doing to watch a race. You know, I, I just have an

experience, Not that I've been everywhere, but you just don't

see that very often. And it's, it's, it's really, I

think a testament and I've never talked to their marketing team,

I, you know, or even their general manager.

But at the end of the day, you can tell they put a focus on

horse racing and they appreciate it and it brings people into

them and and I think that's helped.

Yeah. You know, we just did a live

show and I know you saw some of this on Twitter ahead of the

Indiana Derby and Horseshoe reminds me of a lot of the

things you just talked about as far as, look, they had their

biggest day. It cost you nothing to get in,

zero for parking, zero to get in.

Just come to the track, we'll figure it out.

There was a moment where the line to get programs was really

deep and really long, and their VP of Racing, Eric Hamelback

came down and said just give everybody a program.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I like you settle down, Hamelback.

I like Hollstra a little more, but anyway, but no, but like he

got down there and he just literally, he saw the line.

He's like, no, we're not doing this.

Give everybody a program. And that's the kind of stuff

like the simple things of just get him in the door once you go

to a race. It is.

It is impossible to meet someone in horse racing and say, hey,

how did you get into this? And they don't tell you about

the first time they went to the track.

They do. They do every time.

That's exactly right. Yeah, and Indiana certainly is

one of the right in the same conversation as I had before

because Eric Hallstrom and his team and, you know, you know,

even hired, you know, Joe Morris with Caesar's and appreciation

of horse racing and what it does for the economic drivers of

their state. I've always wanted to have this

conversation. So you use the word racino

there. And one of the things I see on

Twitter and one of the conversations is, oh, horse

racing's never going to make it if they have subsidies.

And we see in California that without subsidies, it's not a

good situation. And so we see that one to start

with as a counterexample. But the one I always come back

to, Eric, is if that's true, then why does the NFL get so

many subsidies from governments? Yeah, if it is it all of their

stadiums are taxpayer funded. You and I at some point in our

lives have paid taxes somewhere that went to pay for a Major

League Baseball team to get a new stadium or an NHL team to

get a new arena or a football team to get a new stadium.

Like you and I have paid into those coffers at some point.

Why do you think it is that people are so worried about

horse racing acting like those other sports?

Well, I wish I could answer that question, but but I would say

this, Louis, I actually don't even like and I've tried very

hard to get around the word subsidies.

You know, at the end of the day, you're paying a tariff to horse

racing because you would not be here, Mr. Miss Casino.

You wouldn't have the luxury of being in this state if you

weren't in New Jersey or Las Vegas.

What was it in the, you know, late 90s when we first had West

Virginia open up? You know, and again, growing up

as a kid in Louisiana when the river boats came in, you

wouldn't have had that if it wasn't for Louisiana Downs.

You know, West Virginia wouldn't have had it if it wasn't for

Mountaineer and Charlestown. So yes, you know, some people

can call it a subsidy or, or propping us up one way or the

other. But we allowed the expansion of

gaming from coast to coast. And again, we had a monopoly for

the, you know, for whatever reason you want to say.

But for for the United States, we have opened up wagering to

the point where it is today. And so yes, damn well, I think

that there should be some tariffs because again, that's

something that you would not have had the luxury of having if

it weren't for horse racing. So you know, it is difficult now

if you don't have that, but also it's difficult.

Why? Because there is expanded gaming

period when it was just horse racing, that's an Ave. that

people could bet on and that was it.

You know, you can say the same about AD WS and now you blow up

into sports wagering, you know it's going to reduce the number

of people that go to the track. But at the end of the day,

giving more opportunities to bet, you still have to pack the

backs of the horse racing industry because that's what

brought them into the places they're in now.

Eric Campbell back with us at Eric the Tiger on Twitter.

Go find him there. He's with the national HBPA

coming out of your your National Convention there just northeast

of Des Moines, IA of all things you you mentioned in in a note

to me the Amplify horse racing folks, and this is Anitmo

Playsir and she is amongst the brighter spots in our sport as

far as someone who's willing to be.

A face of voice, etcetera of people.

That I, I don't know that traditionally we thought of as

as horse people and he's certainly in that group.

What do you like about what they're doing, and what do you

think could be the next step of what they're doing?

Well, as you said, Anise is a dynamic person.

I was lucky enough to meet her when she was a good Dolphin

flying Start student and we or I was on the third bed Employee

industry awards. You know, we, we've been helping

put that together. But obviously Godolphin does 95%

of the work. But at the end of the day,

meeting her, then you could tell, you know, she went around

to race tracks around the country.

She too, you know, if you want to stretch a little bit north,

you know, she didn't come from the coast, right?

She came from the heart of America.

She's got the agrarian base, you know, talks about her early

childhood passion for the races and that really just kind of

continues to spill over. But her will and drive and and

passion to bring horse racing to a new generation or the next

generation. It's, it's quite, quite frankly,

it's infectious to the point where I want to bend over

backwards to help her put her message out there and help in

any way we can push Amplify and what she's doing.

Because when you look at Amplify and horse racing, you know, that

is an opportunity for us as an industry to help educate and

gain people that are going to be in the industry, not just fans,

but be in the industry for years to come.

And I think that's a very important aspect.

And for her, again, just being the person she is and what I

know of a niece, I mean, she's the right person for the job.

No problem, no. I remember it was either last

year, the year before, just in in the press row ahead of the

Kentucky Derby, she was walking around and you know, it's one of

those environments where you just say, hey, Enise, can you do

5 minutes or hey, you know, you know, there's someone from DRF,

can you do 5 minutes? And she was there.

I said, hey, can you do five times?

She said, of course. And she jumped out.

She got she got done and we went to break and she's like, oh,

thank you so much. And she walked away.

And my Co host, Mike Gandolfo looked at me and he goes, wow,

she's really good. I was like, yeah, no, she's

she's a future star for sure. Yeah, No, that's right.

And so no, it was it was good to have her on that.

And I'm, I'm not surprised at the popularity of what she's

doing either, because there's such a thirst, I think, for that

kind of just that kind of outreach because so many people

in the industry feel that way. But you're right that it takes a

dynamic person, it takes a personality to put those things

out there to be, you know, I, I look, look, I, I love doing this

and I know how to interview people, but I, I, I, I'm not a

niece multiples here. Like that's not a thing.

And, and so we need someone like that out there doing those

things. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, she's got the right personality and, and it's, it's

just a, it's a warm, it's a welcoming personality.

You know, she, you know, and, and I think at heart she's an

educator, which obviously is important.

And you know, she's I, I think she's going to really help the

industry going forward. Eric Campbell back with us from

the National HBPA Fixed Odds is on your list of things to talk

about. I was just at the Haskell in New

Jersey at Monmouth Park, and of course both types of booze

available at Monmouth Park. And so there was a race I

remember very specifically. I love the long shot in the race

and I wanted to watch the pair mutual odds and the fixed odds

side by side and kind of try to figure out which one was going

to give me slightly more money on my limited budget having four

children. But it was fun to watch them and

they do a great job there, Eric of listing the odds side by side

so that if you are involved in the local betting there you can

see all right, I you know, the horse happened to be get smoking

in the United. Nations, OK, you can get.

Get smoking 8 to one on the pair mutual.

Right now he's 9.6 to one on the fixed odds, something like that,

you know, OK, I'm going to go run and get the fixed odds, that

kind of thing. What came out of your

discussions on fixed odds? And is it, you know, is that

something that you think will be an important part moving forward

with the rise in the popularity of sports bets?

I do. I really think fixed odds is,

well, let let's just say there is definitely a place for fixed

odds and horse racing in our future.

Michelle Fisher and I honestly have been doing a fixed odds

panel since 2016. You know, I've been, I don't

know if you want to say predicting the popularity, but

certainly with guidance of experts like Michelle who's now

with Sisi think that when you look at the mission statement of

National HVPA, we're going to be trying to push initiatives that

highlight horse racing. And this is definitely one that

I think will help, you know, is it the end all, the be all?

No, I, I don't think it's going to just overtake paramutual

wagering, but I think it's a, it's a good symbiotic

relationship that we can continue to have the way we got

into fixed odds from our standpoint, and I say our

standpoint, you know, putting a box around horseman's

representative. We wanted to make sure that when

fixed odds was introduced in the United States that the, the

bookies, the vet makers of the world and, and those that had

the odds in the back end understood that we have the

Interstate Horse Racing Act, right.

So there was a litigious reason that we wanted to make sure we

were at least had our finger on the pulse of fixed odds because

outside the United States there is no Interstate Horse racing

Act. So there isn't a revenue sharing

model. So often when I talk about what

goes on in New Jersey, it's not a model that the rest of the

country can necessarily mimic because quote UN quote, the

track is owned by the horsemen. So there's a set rate, right?

But when you get outside of New Jersey and the reason we we

presented this panel with Kim Oliver, who is the president of

the Colorado Horse Racing Association, you know, our HBPA

in Colorado, they are one of the first or they, they are the

first group that are really signing up to do it with a

revenue sharing model. And so, you know, I think fixed

odds is going to make a difference in gaining some fans.

I don't know that they'll ever overtake the handle of

Paramutual because there's plenty of people who still

appreciate that. But it gives it a new twist.

It gives it a new, you know, a new way of looking at it.

And like you said, if there's going to be a comparison, maybe

people will shop, you know, that that I think is a positive when

you get people looking at it that way.

And you know, again, I you're not going to get many 50 to ones

and fix odds. So that's right.

Yeah, that's why I don't think it'll ever take hold and, you

know, push paramutual wagering all the way out.

But I do think it's a good Ave. that most of my affiliates are

looking at in one way or the other.

Derek Campbell back with U.S. National HBPA, the CAWS Man, I

was doing a live stream the other night with my buddy

Matthew DeSantis over. He works for Naira and and we

were watching a Cineboya Downs in Canada of all places.

And I gave out a single in a sequence and I said I really

think this horse is going to win and two to one is good value.

They get halfway down the stretch of a six furlong race.

They've got 3 furlongs to go and the horse is 2 to five.

Talk about the CA WS and what the panels discussion was.

Because look, it is very easy on the outside to say we need to

get these out of the sport. It's this, this and this.

But man, the amount of money turn by these these

organizations put into the pools is stunning and would be really,

really a huge detriment if they removed from the sport sort of

generally. What says Eric Camelback?

What said your panel about the Caws?

Yeah, stunning is a great a great word to to categorize if

they were to go away. So when you look at the panel

that I put together, I I base it a lot on the thought around Dan

Ross, who writes for the TDM. He did a very, in my opinion,

excellent piece on CAW wagering but more geared towards the

backside I know most people talk about.

And when I say backside I don't mean the backstretch, I'm

talking about the back end of racing.

So, or I should say wagering, you know, there's a business

perspective and that's what I tried to, you know, continue to

drive home even in the the title CAW and horse racing, a business

perspective. You know, that's what I wanted

to make sure people looked at for the very reason you touched

on. Louis, if you're looking at, you

know, Dave Basler, who's the executive director of the Ohio

HVPA, he said up to 40%, 40% of his handle in Ohio could come

from CAW wagering. Now, let's say across the

country, Pat Cummings says it's 30%.

Jack Jaworski now with naira, he said, you know, maybe 20%, but

who cares, right? 20 to 40% of your set of your

handle goes away, you're in trouble, period.

So my goal in this panel, which ended up being a very spirited

panel, it was probably the best panel of the conference because

the guys were open, they were honest, and they laid it out

there. This really kind of got people

understanding that it's not just about dropping odds after the

gates open. There's more to it than that.

You know, when you look at host, host fees that are paid and you

look at the rebates, but you have to look at it in the same

vein of these guys are betting billions of dollars into horse

racing. Do you really want to take that

away for a reason that doesn't make a lot of sense?

And I also talked a little bit about most people, whether

you're casual wagering or not, they see that, that odds drop.

You know, I, I put a little bit of the onus on technology for

the tote systems. You know, there hasn't been

major investments in tote systems that would at least

mirror the technology advances in other industries.

You know, if you can do 96,000 transactions a second, why can't

you get the odds calculated quicker?

You know, so that there isn't this push, but you know, you

have jurisdictions like naira that you know, their, their

model seems to be closing them off a little bit before the gate

opens, whatever that is. But I wanted people to

understand that, you know, there's more to it than just

odds dropping. We don't need to push these guys

out of the business. But also my group from a

horseman's representative aspect, you need to understand

that that's a part of negotiations.

You got to be ready and understanding that when you're

negotiating. Make sure you understand the CAW

influence and what sort of percentages you need to protect

for the owners and in the revenue sharing model.

Eric Campbell back with us from the National HPPA.

Just a couple more for you. This is one that's not on the

list. But I I just thought of it as

you were talking. I'm doing a bunch of after you,

we hang up with you. We're gonna we're actually gonna

talk. We're gonna talk Kentucky Downs

preview day and weekend at Ellis Park.

And those are two different ownership groups, certainly on

the same circuit, but they are two different organizations at

the top. And look, there's a lot of

consternation going on right now, Eric, something I've

noticed being in a seat in Louisville, KY and, and having

friends who are, and I, and I mean this without any, I mean

this as a factual statement, not as any kind of judgement

statement. But maybe they're, they're in

LA, but they're 20 years older than me or they're in New York

and they're 20 years older than me.

And they were used to the very best racing in the country being

in Southern California and in New York City.

And that's fine. And that's frankly with

Saratoga, that's still at least true.

But sometimes and with Del Mar, the true sometimes and all those

things, but watching that thing move back to Kentucky and watch

the quality move back here with purses, with different things,

how what can we take from the? The.

Seeming understanding and agreement between something like

an Ellis Park and a Kentucky Downs, is that something we

could, I don't know if we could model it with other places.

Something I talk about a lot is with, with essentially, if we're

talking about the, you know, horse racing as a, as a, you

know, as a solar system, Kentucky's becoming the sun and

lots of things are starting to rotate around it.

We see it growing. You mentioned it in Prairie

Meadows. We see it for sure at Horseshoe

Indianapolis, Belterra's right up the street.

There's lots of opportunities for places nearby to really

benefit from, you know, the, the, the large setup in Kentucky

and then being on the satellite edges of it.

Is there a way for us to? Be a little less parochial and a

little more helpful to our neighbors in horse racing.

Well, I'm going to be selfish here, Louis.

Let's let's list some of the places that it's really growing.

Obviously Kentucky, obviously Oak Lawn, obviously in

Louisiana. And when you look at places like

Nebraska who are expanding very quickly and Prairie Meadows,

we'll we'll loop those in. What do they have in common?

Good horsemen's representation, their HBPA affiliates.

And when you look at the Kentucky HBPA as a board,

obviously President Rick Hiles has been in that position for

quite some time and understands the negotiations with Churchill

Downs as well as all of the entities.

But then you go to Colonial, look at the expansion.

Colonial has now being bought by Churchill Downs under the

guidance of the Virginia HBPA. It takes a good horseman's

representative group to really expand, you know, the racing and

understand, you know, state politics is part of it.

You, you've got to have a good representative group in place.

And I, I'm going to wave a good flag there.

I mean, you know, Oakland, KY, in particular, but certainly

Louisiana, the expansion there and what they've done

legislatively, you know? That's where we're we're, we're

really starting to shine. And when you have strong

representation it, it does bring about really good things at a

racetrack. You know, I remember having

early on Mr. Randy Sampson, who obviously owner at Canterbury,

he was at one of my conferences years ago, I think it was 2016,

and the whole goal was to really talk about his productive good

relationship with the Horseman's representative group and how

well Canterbury was doing at the time.

And, you know, and I and I, I truly believe that not just

because I'm in this position, but I truly believe when you

look at a racetrack and the Horseman's Representative group

and the Commission. So right, that's the power

triangle in the Interstate Horse Racing Act.

If you've got a good relationship, that is when

you're going to see things shine and you're really starting to

see it now. You've mentioned, and I think it

was, it was either your dad or someone from very early in your

interest in horse racing. There are really only two people

to protect in horse racing. Do you remember that story?

Yeah, that's, I wish it was my dad, John Neyroud, who's.

Oh. OK, got it.

Yeah, Yeah, he later in his life, he reached out to me while

I was still the Dena Springs because I had made a comment

that was printed in TDM. And he I still take, I still

have a picture of the the notes in my subsequent conversations.

But you know, the owner and the better.

It's the only two people who really matter in horse racing.

You know, he talked to me extensively about his early

stages of the Breeders Cup was really put together to help the

owners. You know, a lot of people get

hung up on the word Breeders' Cup, but that really that

initiative was about highlighting the owners in the

game. And so, you know, he really

instilled into me in our conversations, he was still in

Florida when I was in Kentucky. And we just kind of set this

phone relationship and it it really, you know, I don't know

that it really hit me as much then as it did when I took this

position in 2015. Because his words ring true all

the time. You've got to protect the owner.

You got to protect the better. Because without, you know either

one of them, we have no industry.

It's literally where the money comes from, right?

It's the source. It's the source of revenue,

quite literally. Yeah.

Eric, Eric Campbell back with us.

I do want to ask you and maybe we'll, we'll, we'll start to

wrap up with this and, and it's, it is on your list, I promise.

The claiming crowd is coming back to Churchill Downs and talk

about the claiming crown. The motivation behind that is

this more, you know, is this a, a celebration of, of, of

ownership at all levels? Is it a celebration of, you

know, horsemen at all levels, horse people at all levels, you

know, and having it at a place? Like a Churchill Downs.

Is Churchill a good venue for it or should it be at a smaller

track? What do you What does Eric

Campbellback. Say, I think Churchill's a great

venue for it and it and it and it's more, I'm going to say

logistics. I mean, obviously when we were

at Gulfstream for many years, even before I started in this

position, you know, it was good, it was well supported.

We had it at the end of the year when, quote UN quote, their

championship meet started. So you had a horseman shipping

down there literally from all over the country, even though

they were right there at Gulfstream.

But now when you have it here at Churchill, you really get to see

the ship ends right there. People are coming from, again,

Iowa, Nebraska, you know, Minnesota, you know, you'll have

people shipping in, shipping in from the East Coast.

It's just an easier ship. OK, So let's just throw that out

there from a logistics standpoint.

But obviously once again highlighting the Horseman's

representative group, I mean, when you have the Kentucky HVPA

who who sees the importance of the event because as you were

kind of stating in the beginning, when it was created

in 2019, a lot of times it was called the Breeders Cup for the

common racing owner, right? Not everybody can get to the

Breeders Cup. I don't like to necessarily

compare to that. I mean, the Breeders Cup is the

Breeders Cup, the claiming crown.

What we highlight is the day-to-day horseman.

And I've always said this, and I kind of stole this phrasing

somewhat from Satish Sinan many years ago.

You know, the, the big day of racing in any racetrack is paid

for by the handle generated on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

And so Satish, I really learned just listening to him through

the years, you know, you could have the same amount of money

bet on an allowance race on Wednesday afternoon at, at, at,

let's say, Oakland Park that you could literally on the Arkansas

Derby. But where are you going to get

that extra purse for the Arkansas Derby?

It's from the handle generated from the Tuesday, Thursday

racing. So I think it's more of a

highlight of those who put on the big the races every day that

allow for the Breeders cups that allow for the the bigger stakes

because that extra money for those purses has to come from

somewhere. And that handle is where it's

generated from. And so I'm really happy to be

back there. I'm hoping that we're going to

be there for a few years in in succession now, but Ben Huffman,

Mike Ziegler, everybody at Churchill has been very

welcoming. We were able to, with

Churchill's permission, do a qualifying race at Prairie

Meadows. That was a huge thing for me.

Really excited about having a race in conjunction with the

conference shot. Shell, who won 7 1/2 length

victory. Huge, huge win for José

González, who is a board member of the of the New Mexico HBPA.

So it was a big deal for him and, and his family.

He's there. I got to spend some time with

him the next night. His daughter is on a wrestling

scholarship in Iowa. And I mean, just a just, you

know, that that epitome of what we talked about early on, that's

the family based operation. His sons, his assistant, you

know, and they're coming to Churchill and they can't

freaking wait. You know, it's interesting, you

bring up the logistics and I used to write for the LA Times

Horse racing newsletter when it was a thing.

And one of the analysis that I did was Breeders' Cup in

Kentucky versus Breeders' Cup in California as it pertains to

field size. And the ones in Kentucky on

average draw an extra horse per race.

And you got it and. You got to imagine a huge amount

of that is just logistics. Yeah, I mean, especially now

with the cost of flying horses, it's.

That's exactly right. Well, and frankly, how how you

have to fly your horse too, right.

It's not that they're flowing poorly or anything like that,

but the old, you know, we saw the the equestrian horses on the

old, you know, horse Force One or whatever it's called or air

horse one or whatever, you know, like people get excited about

that. But like, that's not the norm

anymore, unfortunately for a lot of our equine athletes.

And so I just, yeah, I remember writing that piece and I think

that's when they started to really not like be in Southern

California. But the but it was just true.

It simply was. And not just the dirt races, it

was turf races too. Some of it was, you know,

European traders being more comfortable coming to Kentucky

rather than going all the way to California.

We seem to have. Overcome some of that in recent

years with the, you know, the Applebee shippers and that kind

of stuff. But yeah, no, just the logistics

end of and the the types of tracks where you're going to get

the best claiming type starter allowance type horses is going

to be in this region of the country rather than say you

know, West of the Rockies somewhere.

No doubt. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely

true. All right, well, he's Eric

Camelback. He's with the National HBPA.

Where would you want people to yell at you or to find the work

that you do? You know, it seems like

everybody finds me pretty easily.

No, you know, go to our website, nationalhvpa.org.

But it's got my e-mail on there. And and yeah, I get, I get

plenty of things thrown at me on X, that's for sure.

Well, you're the Roger Goodell of this, right?

They pay you $25 million a year to get yelled at.

Right. At least I didn't get booed at

my conference like for Roger at the at the draft.

Wouldn't that be great? You, you walk up.

Jenny's in the back. Oh man.

Don't give her any ideas. I know that's a missed

opportunity. What are we going to do?

All right. Well, I'm sure I'll run it to

you in Ellis or Kentucky Downs or something like that.

Eric, be well. We'll talk to you soon.

Thanks for joining us here on the Kentucky Racing.

Spot Louis, Thanks for having me brother.

I appreciate it. No problem at all.

We'll come back, we'll talk some Ellis Steaks.

Little Kentucky Downs preview here on the Kentucky Racing

Spotlight were presented by the Kentucky HBPA.

My name is Louis Robot. Stick around one segment to go

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Racing Spotlight on ESPN 680 and One O 5 Seven.

Now here's Louie Rabo. All right, we're back here on

the Kentucky Racing Spotlight with Louie Rabo.

I'm Louie Rabo at Radio Louie on Twitter.

You can find our station at ESPN 680.

If you don't listen to me during the week, you can find me 10 to

dude here on the station. It's a general.

Sports show. We do weave horse racing in and

out, so we'd love to have you as part of Rabo and go want to

thank Eric Hamill back in the previous segment for joining us

from the National HBP. Yeah, all of his thoughts, all

of the goings on in the Horsemans group there.

And I just. Wanted to reiterate that wasn't

anything that was set up for me or that anyone came to me with

and said, hey, you got to have this guy on.

That's simply not the case. Eric and I have do have a good

report. We do know each other for

previous interviews, but man, I find him just to be a guy with a

fountain of knowledge and I think he just, I think he really

cares about the game and I really care about talking to

people who really care about the game.

So we thank him for hanging out with us in the previous segment

we're presented. By the Kentucky HPA KY hpa.com

Go check them out. On their website anytime to see

what they're up to the I mean just the issues in the sport,

but everything that you love about it as well, photographs

and the race, race recaps, all those sorts of things happening

over at K. YHBP, a.com, Cool weekend at

Ellis Park and I love these kinds of partnerships.

I brought it up with Eric in the previous segment where we get

these. You know, different ownership

groups, right, CDI on the on the the Ellis side and then the

Kentucky Downs folks on the other were were cordial enough

or collegial enough to have a preview weekend at Ellis Park

ahead of those races at Kentucky Downs.

And I was going through my sheet.

We'll have a full episode, by the way, on the Horse Racing

Happy Hour if you're interested, looking at all 7 stakes this

weekend. I'll talk to Kevin Kerstein from

Churchill Downs and then my friend Barry Spears who's does

some work, especially around the Tampa Bay Derby down at Tampa

Bay. He'll join me on the podcast as

well. So that's out on the podcast

platform if you are listening to this show right now.

So go ahead and listen to Kevin and Barry as we walk through

those seven races and get you ready for Kentucky Down season,

which is just a few weeks away. It was just a fantastic card on

both Saturday and Sunday. Some cool betting opportunities,

man. You get into turf racing and I

think it's I think it's a little more difficult to predict than

with dirt racing, especially when we get to these two turn

races. We're trying to figure out who

it is, man. So, so often it feels like in a

turf route, a horse that's finished second a bunch is it's

right there just about ready to jump up and go ahead and win a

race, but a horse is coming in. And won't need.

To go two turns is in this first race in Race 7 on Saturday and

it is the Kentucky Downs Preview Mid Ladies Turf Sprint.

The Turf Sprint the Open Company will be on Sunday, but on

Saturday. 5 1/2 furlongs quarter $1,000,000 for Phillies Mares 3

and up. We get a shipper in that we saw

over. We saw in the Unbridled Susan

over Derby weekend. Her name is overcharged.

She is 6 for six this year and she's 2 for four last year.

Guerrero's not in to ride this one.

As he usually. Is at Fairgrounds, but this

horse is making the trip after winning the Chicken Fried.

I'm not making that up. That's the name of the stakes at

Lone Star over 5 furlongs, going to Sharp 55 and four in that

one. And before that in the slop at

Evangeline Downs. How about that?

Wins in that one as well. 2 for three, by the way, in her life

on on dirt, on the wet dirt since moving the turf, though. 5

for five. And that seems to be what they

discovered with her this year. Last year, she was totally.

Fine as a horse, goes 2 for four, earns over $100,000,

breaks her maiden, does all those things.

Excuse me, didn't break her maiden, but last year wins two

of those races. Both of them, by the way, in

state, in state bred company, both of them $100,000 races.

She's doing great, almost $1,000,000 this race if she

wins, puts her over speed figures all make sense.

Her trip up here to Churchill Downs for the Unbridled Susan

and her trip to Lone Star give me a lot of hope and a lot of

confidence that she can travel that speed that she usually has

at fairgrounds to those other places.

Corey Landry gets them out here. I think that's kind of not

important. I would trust a lot of the

jockeys in the Ellis Park colony, of which there are many

good ones, to ride this horse. I think she's very, very ready

for this field. Red carpet ready's in here.

The five Triumph Turf for the first time.

It's a daughter of Oscar Performance.

If you remember her, she was on the Oaks Trail last year, ended

up running in the 8 Bells instead and won it.

So last year she wins the forward gal at Gulfstream Park

in the grade three tries. The Devona Dale at a mile just

doesn't like the distance. They scale her back to seven

furlongs in the 8 bells. She wins that one ahead of

money's gold and a credit and so exceed.

Excuse me and. Look, this is a.

Horse that also came back one Here comes a bride again,

another grade three at Gulfstream Park.

They decided to run her in the Madison, A grade one at

Keeneland, the Trier, the Derby City Distaff.

Those were way above her grade. She's a grade three, maybe a

grade 2 minus kind of horse. Is this a spot?

I like this idea from Rusty Arnold.

Not a bunch of the numbers say this isn't going to work.

He hits at 6% going dirt to turf.

He's not great with first time turfers under 10%.

He's not great coming off this kind of layoff.

She hasn't run since Derby weekend, but I like the idea of

running her here and this may be the kind of horse that if you

think there's something there, maybe she can get it there for

you. Nikki, 9 Doors is in here, The

six. I think she's interesting as

well. If we're going to try to beat

Overcharge, she might be it. Jorado Corrales, who won no

balls in the Breeders Cup Turf Sprint last year, keeps them out

with her. His first time getting them out

was last out in the pee patch. They went ahead and won by open

lengths. Could she repeat that form

tomorrow on Saturday? We'll see.

I'm really, really interested to see her in this spot.

The next race though is race is race 8, excuse me.

And race 8 is the is the Kentucky Downs Preview Nashville

Derby. So obviously we are getting in

on the three-year olds here it is for a quarter, $1,000,000.

Again, a mile and an eighth on the turf course there at Ellis

Park. Another interesting one, a lot

going on in this race as well. I landed on the seven on top

here and that's green light. It is the favorite here.

You get Alex a Shard, who by the way, is a stunning over 23 at

Ellis Park. This is a grade one winner at

Keeneland and the Maker's Mark Mile.

This is the kind of rider that I'm stunned hasn't gotten over

the hump with a single mount down there at Ellis Park.

Has hit the board seven of his 23 times running.

Does have 12% winning next year. Rudolf Per SE trains here.

This horse ran really well. In the American.

Derby last out, just ran out of gas trying to go the mile on a

16th on the lead. I think they'll try to stalk

with this horse like they did in her maiden win at Churchill back

in May, and I think that'll be the right tack for this horse.

There's not a ton of early speed in this race.

A lot of horses that are going to try to sit from just off, so

this way we give her an opportunity.

To be in company, excuse me, him, the opportunity to be in

company. That fits him a little bit

better. Cameo performance, Is he in

here? Another son of Oscar

performance. He ran really well in the Grade

3 Marine last time on the synthetic at Woodbine.

Gets back to the turf here for Trader Brendan Walsh who hits at

14% going synthetic to turf. Before that, ran in the Audubon

at a mile and an eighth at Turfway, Excuse me, at Churchill

Downs. Wasn't great in that spot.

But I'm hoping we get more of the performances that we saw at

at Dondalk, first in Ireland, that at Keeneland and then at

Woodbine. Then we do that one run at

Churchill Downs. I'll go go ahead and write a

line through that one and give him another shot here.

The five horse in here is Domingo and I think Domingo is

probably my long shot of the weekend.

Go ahead and draw a line through the Kent last out of Delaware.

Did not like it there. Lost his rider at the start,

Trevor McCarthy, and that was it and that was it.

Before that though, second in an allowance high level going a

mile and a quarter off the turf that day at Churchill runs

really well. Before that they were on the

turf for a mile and a three sixteenths at Keeneland.

So this horse hasn't really run a turf race since then.

Broke his maiden in a maiden special weight a mile and an

eighth at Gulf Street Park before that under Luis Saez.

Gets Decky cannon here man, and I think that Clin Cannon

actually. Might be a better fit.

For the track here, the two of them between Walsh and Cannon

hitting at 13% right now down at Ellis Park and I think the one

Oscars world, another Oscar performance.

I mean, we get an Oscar performance, right?

I mean, we get it one last time. Guess where Ellis Park Mile and

a 16th records an 80 speed figure there.

Has to go a little. Bit further here, another 16th

of a mile, but this is a horse that's going to be right on the

pace, if not inheriting the pace and fast enough and good enough

to get the kick there. Got them out, did Martin Garcia

keeps it here. Should be part of the equation

at the end of that race as well. And finally on this card is Race

9, the last of the Kentucky Down Preview races.

This is the Kentucky Downs Preview Mint Millions Turf Mile,

so a $250,000 race. Obviously we are going a mile,

the mile at Elfo Ellis Park at the mile at Kentucky Downs.

Not exactly the same. So we will look at this one as

though it is the kind of flat race that it is.

And this might be your single for the day win for the money is

the 6th in here, 7:00 to 5:00 in the morning line and a deserved

7:00 to 5:00 in the morning line was really good in the Wise Dan

last time. I think man in a different in a

different scenario. Because this horse had to go

between horses and just couldn't make the move under Jose Ortiz,

Christian Torres. If you can keep this horse out

of any kind of issue, I think this gelded son of Moheman has a

legitimate shot here. Before that did win the listed,

the black type Mr. Steele at Gulfstream Park under Edwin

Gonzalez by open open legs. Before that, they tried him at

much longer distances in both the valedictorian and the autumn

grade two and grade three at Woodbine on the synthetic.

Well, I'm Louis Ribbo. We'll wrap up the show.

With that, again, we're presented by the.

Kentucky HBPAKYHBP a.com Go ahead and find me on the Horse

Racing Happy Hour podcast. You can also find me, of course,

Audra Bow and Co Tendanoon. Every week they hear audio.

ESPN 680-1057. We'll talk to you next.

Friday as we preview a little bit more Ellis Park and get you

ready for that racing weekend. But for this one, thanks for

making us part of your August 2nd and the weekend's horse

racing. Good luck with all your wagers.