BloodHorse Monday 4/7/25 | Mark Casse

IS upbeat music and Mondays, it must be BLOOD HORSE Monday.

Sean Collins, how are you? Lunar Bo hanging out with you

from the Blood Horse studios here.

So glad you decided to start your horse racing week with us,

hopefully again. But if you're finding us for the

first time, we really do appreciate that as well.

Mark Cassie will join us during the middle of this podcast.

You talked with him yesterday at Keeneland, fascinating stuff

about Sandman and certainly about decoupling in Florida as

well. The effort being led by the

folks down there, his trip from Tampa.

You won't want to miss that part of the show.

And of course, our colleague Olivia Newtons got He's Got You

Covered from the OBS sale as well, where she talks to OBS

President Tom. What is Tom's last name?

Tom Ventura. Ventura.

That's exactly right. So I'm getting on a first name

basis with these people and I need not to do that.

Sean, you understand me? You need to.

You need to. Learn the last names if you're

going to. Answer I got to be way better

than that. That's exactly right.

But this is Blood Horse Monday for April 7th of 2025.

So of course that means we've got more 100 point preps in the

books. But we have an unusual situation

one. 100 point prep than. Usual.

Yes, that's exactly right. And an unusual bluegrass on a

Tuesday at Keeneland. We'll get to all of that in a

minute. But let's get to these races

from the past weekend here on Blood Horse Monday.

I was in New York, so we're going to go there first, very,

very selfishly. But here's Chris Griffin on the

call of the Wood Memorial. It is the Baffert shipper in

Rodriguez getting it done. Here comes Grande is trying to

launch that rally. Passion rules in Carmouche,

looking for a way through. Rodriguez turns up her home and

has the lead. It's Rodriguez trying to open up

his doing just that. Rod Rodriguez has now taken 3,

almost 4 out of the field. Grande in the center of the

racetrack is chased all the time here by Captain Cook.

It is Rodriguez. Rodriguez with a 16th left to

go. Rodriguez is opening up.

It's a front running score. The 100th running goes to

Rodriguez. Mike Smith win it.

Well, Mike Smith back in New York gets it done.

Did not make the trip for nothing.

How about that? Seem like a very big money.

Mike shows back up in New York and gets it done.

I mean this as nicely as I can. Young Sean Collins, go ahead and

pick apart that race for me. Go ahead, tell me what he didn't

do right. Tell me why he didn't finish

well. Tell me about the fractions.

Tell me about anything. Tell me that anything that

wasn't good about that race. He had everything his own way.

Is that the bad thing is that he made his own race?

I don't that the downs. You don't think he did OK?

Well, the way I don't think it's a bad thing because at least

right now, the way the leaderboard looks for the Derby,

it doesn't look like there's going to be.

Any other front pace? Pressure, right?

Yeah. So really, his pace, pressure is

going to be his stablemate, Citizen Ball probably, right.

So it's just a matter of which one does Baffert and all the

ownership group, which one do they send to the front?

If he gets the lead in this race, he's going to be very

tough at the Kentucky Derby. He looked good in this spot.

He came off of, you know, a race in the San Felipe where I was

completely off the bandwagon for him.

And I still, you know, if he doesn't get the pace in the

Kentucky Derby, I don't know how that will react.

Because of that, I'm going to be a little cautious about using

him. But if he gets the lead and he

gets that trip, you've seen it with Authentic.

And you know, even though Medina Spirit got disqualified, you saw

it with him with these Bafferts. When they get on the lead and

they get it their own way in the Derby, they're going to be tough

to beat. And he showed me everything in

that race on Saturday that if that's the scenario that plays

out, he's going to be tough to beat.

Problem is, the last three years we've seen a couple times where

we didn't expect the pace to be too hot and it was very.

Hot. That's the thing that we lie to

ourselves about is oh, it's a big race.

All the best jockeys in the world are here.

There won't be a torrid speed duel up.

There always is. There just always is.

And I, I do wonder if we won't get that again in the Derby.

So let me ask this a very different way then, since you're

very convinced that he got his own way in this race.

Yes. So if journalism's in this race,

journalism wins, right? Yes, I actually do think so.

OK, so journalism overcomes A12 horse field or whatever and is

able to run Rodriguez? As long as he didn't get stuck

in traffic, I think he would have gotten up there.

Sandman wins this race if he's in New York rather than

Rodriguez. See there, I don't know because

we have seen before where with the pace where Sandman didn't

get up there, right. And so I would say in that

scenario, I would probably take Rodriguez if he got that exact

same race. Even if Sandman was in the race,

I think I probably would have taken Rodriguez.

I think Sandman would have been a lot closer than Grande

probably was the finish line, but and he would have been

getting to him. But again, mile and an eighth in

the wood. Mile and 1/4 in the Derby.

Same scenario. If Sandman's running at him down

the lane, I think that extra 8th of a mile might work in his

favor. Florida, Florida Derby horses,

Tapping St. Sovereignty, who's more likely

to top him is anyone I think of. I'll be honest, I think of

Rodriguez and Tapping St. as being very similar level of

horses. And that, by the way, is

excellent and can win the Kentucky Derby.

That's how I feel about them. This, by the way, I feel very

good. I felt this way.

I feel as good about him as I did about Resilience last year.

And resilience ran a really good Kentucky.

He did really, really good Kentucky Derby.

I feel as good about Rodriguez as I did about resilience.

No, because we the the wood the Wood Memorial native a

narrative, excuse me, is a real one.

When you don't have a Derby, you know, a Wood Memorial winner win

the Derby. For 25 years, it's been it's Big

10 basketball. It doesn't mean it's been bad.

You're just not winning at the highest highest level.

Well, Speaking of not being bad, you had MO Donegal come out of

that, win the Belmont, you had hit Show come out of that, just

win the Dubai World Cup this best weekend, $12 million race.

So it's not like it's not producing good horses.

It just hasn't produced it's a Kentucky Derby winner in a long

time, but you know. Rosso I mean, there's a ton of.

Horses. Now, I'm going to ask you this

because we've mentioned this on the show a couple times, the

being at the racetrack bias. Oh, of course 100% is part of

it. How was your experience out

there? Spectacular.

I love aqueducts so the OK. The first time at Aqueduct.

First time at aqueduct. Here's here's why I know I

understand why people don't like it.

You have to be a person who likes sitting upstairs to not

like aqueduct. If you like being downstairs

where someone's slapping a palm or beating a a program against a

problem you like being I love the people aqueducts perfect for

me. If I lived in New York, I would

be there a lot of Saturdays just to take it in a lot a lot, a lot

and and you don't by the way, cost you nothing to get in.

The hot dogs are like 4 or 5 bucks and you just I just hang.

It is. I'm sorry.

I people, someone lied to me about what Aqueduct is.

And you know what aqueduct is? I figured it out.

I figured it out. It's what people at Keeneland

tell me Churchill is. That's what they that's what

aqueduct is. That's what they tell me.

They tell me. Have you been there?

People are slapping programs. It's like it's alright.

We'll snap, snap. It's not gonna hurt.

A little whistle not gonna hurt. Anybody.

It helps the horse go faster. Very much.

Go 7 Go. The horse knows it's seven.

Yeah. Well, a cool moment that you saw

and you posted about, and I know it's not.

Oh, dude, this was no, we got to do this.

Yeah. Kendrick Carmouche got his four

thousandth win and he left the paddock to go celebrate and take

pictures with the Aqueduct faithful.

So you're talking about that kind of crowd atmosphere and how

great that was. That was a perfect example of it

right there. Hundreds of guys, hundreds of

guys ran out from that first floor to celebrate with

Kendrick. And I'm telling you, he could

not get away from any interview or media bro like me to go be

with the faithful any faster. And I, by the way, watching him

his, his emotions, talking about being a Louisiana kid who's

really adopted by New York City, it was cool, man.

I'm so glad I was there. It's a reminder horse racing is

a little like baseball. You'd never quite know what

you're going to see if you go in person.

I'm so glad I went on Saturday. Kendrick's such a great guy.

I know when I was in high school, I went to parks when he

was still riding there primarily.

And I was at a time where I was always trying to get autographs

from the Josh. Sure, he came down and he signed

whatever hat that I had at the time.

He stood there and talked to me for like 5 or 7 minutes before

he went over to get on the horse.

And he's such a that had a that was like my third time ever

going to the racetrack. And by the way, I was still

think about that moment. Every time he wins something,

I'm always like, yeah, go Kendrick.

I'm a big fan just from that moment.

Absolutely. It's it's very simple.

I'll tell you my kids are fans of Tyler Geoff Alliance forever

because we were at one of the the kid Sundays or whatever at

the track and they used to have to walk to the jocks room

through like the petting zoo and he stopped and said hi to my

kids. They're they're fans forever.

Yeah, they're fans forever. That's absolutely correct.

But no getting to watch him want to be with the faithful.

There it was. It was.

So I'm very, very glad I went that moment.

Was worth it. It's moments like that that make

horse racing such a special sport.

You're not going to see a baseball player or football

player jump into the stands and take pictures of everybody.

That's why horse racing so unique and why is the greatest

sport in the world. And it's also perfect that he

did it at Aqueduct when it was like spitting rain, 50° of

cloudy. It's a third of his career at

least, right? So good for Kendrick.

Really do feel great for him. Congratulations, Kendrick.

Yeah, Congrats for sure from from all of us.

A blood horse Monday, Sean and Louie.

How about that? And then, of course, out West,

we had the Santa Anita Derby as well.

And journalism did journalism things.

I, we, I have, I have a qualm with my fellow media members.

We got to get to that. We'll watch the race first, of

course. This is Santa Anita Derby

Freight beer body on the call. By Aza Up alongside the

challenge, and now journalism is rubbing up a clear cut third.

They're at the top of the stretch in the Santa Anita

Derby, and here's. By Aza By Aza forges past

Citizen Bowl and journalism is kicking in the high gear

journalism and by Aza and a Santa Nerdy Derby showdown.

It is journalism just in front of By Aza.

Write this down. Journalism is the best in the

West as he wins the Sin Anita Derby.

See, there it is. Immediately Write this down.

I'm tired of the journalism jokes already.

I'm tired of it. I can't do it anymore.

I work in media. Here and for a long 4 weeks or

longer potentially. Come on, colleagues, be slightly

better. I look, he does.

This was not a good race for him.

Think about that. He's one of grade one, but this

wasn't his best. Performance.

Yeah, it was right. Yeah, He had all sorts of

trouble on the far turn he got. I mean, I, I never saw like the

head on, but he might have gotten checked into the rail.

I don't know. He got in really tight on the

rail inside of barns as they were going around the far turn.

At that point I looked at and said, Oh no, he's done.

It's like he'll he'll be host home, they'll get him in the

Derby, they'll bounce back in the Derby.

Yeah, he'll get third. It'll just kind of coast in and

he'll come back and run big in the Derby.

Because it looked like he got completely shut off.

All the momentum was gone and. He just, he's trouble, man.

Yeah, he just came back. He just kept going.

And I got to give a shout out to my buddy Dave, who I know

watches the show. He has been on the journalism

bandwagon since he was a 2 year old.

And I think one of the things that he told me about this horse

is the reason why he really likes him is being a Curlin.

He reminds him a lot of Malatha and Cody's Wish.

They don't give you that big explosive kick, but they just

keep coming, keep coming. They keep grinding away and just

she was great. Nothing will get in their way.

They just they just get there and seeing him do that this

weekend, as long as he doesn't hit like 4 different traffic

pockets in the Kentucky Derby, which he can like close but.

He gets an extra furlong too. He gets the extra furlong.

I, I mean, I'm not going to make the official choice yet.

At this point I think he's probably my Derby horse.

But he's a worthy favorite, too, if he's a worthy favorite.

Yeah. He's, if he's 3 to 1 or

whatever, 9, you know, seven to two, that kind of thing.

Yeah. I will say this as well, if he

can get past the Derby, I think of all the three-year olds, he

is our best Triple Crown shot. That's a great.

One OK, I will make, I will make that statement right now.

I think if he can get past the Derby, I think he's the best

shot that we have to win the Triple Crown.

This. Year.

OK, OK, I don't hate that take. I'm not mad at that take.

I'm trying to think of who else would be on that list.

That's why my face looks this way, not that I'm disagreeing.

With you, you know, I would consider a horse like

sovereignty on that list, but you don't see all the time where

the closer the closer's in the Preakness just doesn't seem to

work out as well. No, no, no.

Works in the Preakness. It doesn't work in the other

races. Well, the Bailmont seems to like

really like front runners and pressers.

Go back to like the deep Derby winning closers, the mind that

birds, the animal kingdoms, the. Old They do exist, right?

Yeah, You know, it's like they tend to not win the Preakness.

So like maybe a different closer does that wasn't the Derby

winner, but it seems like the deep Derby winner, winter

closures don't end up winning the Preakness, the Derby winners

that come back and when the Preakness are the horses that

can sit a little bit closer or make the pace, it seems like.

And so that's the reason why I would get because journalism

came from behind this weekend, but we know he can sit closer if

need be. And so that the ability to run

different types of races and still win is that is the case

that he could be the best of the Triple Crown.

Exactly. And you know, mile and 1/4 for

the, I don't think a mile and a half would be a problem for him

if we were running it in the Belmont this year.

But, you know, potentially the mile and a quarter of Belmont

will create a different field than we would have had for the

mile and a half if, you know, if he gets that far with the third

race in five weeks. But I think journalism is the

best shot at the Triple Crown, at least at this stage.

Now make sure you play this back.

For me, when someone else wins the Triple Crown this year, just

make. Sure you oh Oh yeah, we got this

all very recorded. I I really wanted citizen bolt

that it brought a lot better in that race.

It really legitimately actually bothers me that he didn't run

well. I don't know why but it it it

bothers. Me.

Do we think it was just he didn't get everything his own

way and he's not going to win if that's the case.

Do we think it may be his distance or do we think it was

just the pressure that Westwood put on him was just too fast?

And even if it's contested, if he can get a little bit slower,

he'll run better. But how do you?

Think if you were making the case to not even ship Citizen

Bowl to Louisville, you saw Westwood do it to him.

That's the case. If you wanted to make the case

that journalism actually got real pace to run into, you could

also do that. And I Citizen Bowl, I don't I

don't think of now as a Derby contender at all.

And and it's because the one time he had any kind of

pressure, he was like, I'm not doing this.

And guess what, you're going to get in the Derby regardless.

I mean, Rodriguez is right there.

He's going to be in this race from his own barn.

Like you mentioned that you're going to get pressure up front.

It's not something he's or half a step wrong, 1/2 step wrong at

the gate in the Derby. You don't get the lead, it's

over. Only I think the best option for

him, and I don't know if they would do this, would be if they

put him on the lead and they used Rodriguez as a blocker.

Make sure nobody else went with him.

Are we sure right now Citizen bowls a better horse than

Rodriguez? Are we sure he ran a sub 136

mile at Aqueduct dude. I'm not sure about that, but as

far as his ability to win the race, I think that's his best

option. Now I do want to give a quick

shout out to Westwood. I thought he ran.

Nobody's talking about him at all.

He went at Citizen Bowl early, he got dropped back because he

had to, got cut off a little bit on the rail, fell several

lengths back and he came back and beat Citizen Bowl for 3rd.

Nobody's going to talk about his performance after this weekend,

but I was, and I don't know what he's going to go on to do the

rest of his career. He was put in there to be a

rabbit. He did his job.

He ran sensationally well, all things considered.

So shout out to Westwood. You ran well this weekend.

Name to remember. Probably by the time we get to

the Malibu, because he'll still be 37 furlongs.

He looks like that kind of runner.

Yeah, it looks like that. Definitely.

If he develops, he could. He could very much be a a player

in that race. I know there's many, many butts.

From that Now we had the talk last week about the points and a

couple weeks ago when good cheer ran in the Rachel Alexandra, you

asked me what I thought about the reduced points and I said

here we go. I saw that point.

It didn't bother me. Let's go.

It bothers me now. There it is.

There it is. I do it.

I do it. Beza should be in the main 20.

He might still get in with dropouts.

We'll have to wait and see, but I saw nothing from his race this

weekend that would give me any concern.

I know. He looked like a Derby

contender. I think I I still, as we

mentioned last week, full supporter of the point system.

I think that's the right way to go.

This was the first time experiment the reduced points.

And we understand the motivation.

And we understand the motivation.

I think personally the better option would be in A5 horse

field, drop the 4th and 5th place points so only the top

three get points and then the keep them at the normal points.

Because there's nothing that I saw this weekend that should say

Bezos should not be in the race given his pedigree.

Half to Mage, Kentucky Derby winner, door knock Belmont

winner. He should be in the race.

But on the bright side the the bright side of this.

Ed Remsen, winner. Grade 2 winner, Yeah.

The bright side of this is keeps him nice and rested for the

Preakness. That's the other option here

that makes a ton of sense for. Him.

Well, that is good news for Puka.

Complete the triple. Crown so.

Maybe Puka might be the only one happy about this, but a.

Star she is, huh? What a.

Star, What a star. She's got a Philly right now

that's that's about to be born. And I said that's a guarantee.

Either Baeza or the I think he's a yearling right now.

The one they call Preaky. It's a guarantee.

One of them's going to win the Preakness because she's already

moving on to the Oaks. She's done with the Colts, she's

moving on to the Phillies. It's like she's kind of win the

Oaks. She's a party, one of those.

Two's going to win. She's great.

Yeah. It's unbelievable.

I was just thinking about it because we're going to get into

it later in the show, but with the bluegrass being tomorrow,

they're going to run Sunday through Sunday, aren't they?

OK. Shout out to everybody that

works there, you're in for a long haul #1.

People that work there stewards. I mean, I just.

In the concession stands. All the like the FanDuel people,

I mean, oh. Yeah, shout out, shout out to

everybody. 8 days is of sorry, especially at that place where

there's a high level grade at stakes every day, every day, big

crowds, especially the beginning of you're right and big crowds

and all the things that people try to navigate.

Please, by the way, our our fellow Kentuckians, now that

you're you and I are, are transplants here.

We'd love it here. Please be careful my good

goodness, it is very very unsafe out there in many, many spots.

But I do want to thank our friends at the OBS sale for

hanging out with this episode today.

And a reminder that the seeds of success are planted in the

spring and nowhere do buds of talent bloom more than at the

OBS Sale of two year olds in training. 9 graduates from OBS

April have won grade one races since 2024, including the

Champagne and Hopeful steaks, with the most recent being

Cavalieri winning the prestigious Beholder Mild.

The two year old source to the world is fertile ground for

victory. See who blossoms next at the OBS

Sale April 15th through 18th. All right, and moving on to the

Blood Horse interview portion of the Blood Horse Monday podcast

here. Sean Collins, Lou, we're both

hanging out with you. You got to catch up with Mark

Cassie on an unusual Sunday opening day at Keeneland

Racecourse. A lot of interesting topics in

here. What did you guys get into?

We got into Sandman and you know how he ran in the Arkansas Derby

got us his thoughts on that and how he plans on going into the

Kentucky Derby. We also got an update towards

the end of the interview on Lakara, who is running today in

the Ashland Stakes, the reschedule the Ashland Stakes

trying to get into the Kentucky Oaks and also a little bit of an

update on his kings plate contenders as well because you

know he's. Like he's a big.

Kings plate guy. So he's got, he's just got some

horses. The Bob.

Baffert of the Kings plate, is he not?

I mean, he's really got some horses.

For it. So I thought that was

interesting, but more importantly, we did get into a

little bit, you know he's on the executive board of OBS, the OBS

sale. And so we talked a little bit

just about the sales season, but we also talked a lot about the

decoupling issue going on in Florida.

So I thought this was a great interview.

I think it's probably one of the best ones that we've had so far.

We got into a lot of things with Mark.

Yeah, so here's Mark Cassie at Keeneland on a rare Sunday

opening day with our colleague Sean Collins.

All. Right, we're here at Keeneland

on opening day, a delayed opening day with the rain that

came in. Mark Cassie is with me, the dual

Hall of Famer. Mark Cassie, trainer of Sandman

who won the Arkansas Derby last week and 1st off just happy

opening day at Keeneland Mark. It's it's a little damp, but

yes, Keelan's always fun. Yeah, we were just outside

watching the last race, getting pelted by rain while we were in

the paddock. So it's definitely, you know, an

interesting start to the weekend.

But last weekend it was clear skies when you had Sandman going

out of Oakland Park for the Arkansas Derby.

Just take me through that performance.

He'd been kind of getting close in his previous races.

He had some issues at the start. What was it like just having him

breakthrough with that big victory?

Well, that was just kind of all I, I felt like we needed.

We've been pretty unlucky in his two previous starts, not just

in, in the races, but training up to it.

And everything kind of went, went our way for the Arkansas

Derby. And it was kind of he, it was

out. He deserved it.

He'd been through, you know, he had a lot of obstacles thrown

his way previously. So I was happy for him.

You look back at the Southwest Stakes is the one that a lot of

people I think kind of first caught attention where he kind

of jumped out of the starting gate.

Is there anything you did differently with him as far as

training him in the gates following that that's helped him

out since? Not really.

That was just a fluke thing. He's he's extremely smart.

He does everything right now. We always, we whether he had

done that or not, we still do skate schooling.

So we did that. But now that was a fluke deal,

so there was nothing. Now, he's obviously got a great

pedigree. He's by Tap It.

When you look at him going forward to a mile and 1/4 in the

Kentucky Derby, just how do you kind of see this unfolding for

him? How does he stack up with the

other horses you've taken into the Derby?

Well, you know, I've been, I've been fairly unlucky.

I I feel in the Derby. I think it was 2, 2019.

Obviously War a well was making a big run with maximum security,

but the one that got it was had the toughest trip was classic

Empire. He got wiped out right at the

start. I still argue to this day that

he was probably the best horse in that class I.

Always, I always said that and, and I'll always believe that,

but you know, I think this horses, you know, gives us as

good a chance as ever. I think the race sets up nice

for him. His pedigree, a mile and a

quarter is not going to be a problem.

Obviously we know we're going to have twenty horses more than

likely. So it's a big field and he's got

a lot of experience with that and I think that's going to play

to his hand on the 1st Saturday in May.

When you kind of talking about that experience, you know, you

saw where yesterday in the Santa Anita Derby, journalism got

through a lot of traffic, but he was only A5 horse field.

Obviously the amount of horses that you face at Oaklawn, that

gives you more confidence going into the Derby.

But where do you see him as far as can he sit a little closer if

he needs to, then he's been in these Arkansas races.

Is he just a stone cold closer? Is that kind of where you see he

has to be? I think, you know, obviously the

farther you go, the easier it is to lay close.

He's got enough gas that I think he can lay mid pack.

You know, the key there is he wants to run in the bit and he

wants you to kind of grab a hold of him.

So you know, Jose knows him well, but he he's not going to

be coming from last. Now you picked him out of the

OBS March 2 year old in training sale last year as a $1.2 million

purchase. He did the gallop only during

that and did not breeze for the sale.

What was it that you saw from him in that gallop?

Obviously the pedigrees there as well, but what was it that you

really liked about him at that point?

You know, I think most of it was his pedigree and, and, and his

confirmation, his looks. He moved nice over the the

track. So it was good to see that.

But he's an athlete and he's done everything right from right

from the beginning. And I know you're on the

executive board at OBS. When you see a horse like

Sandman do that gallop out or just the galloping during his

training time, his under tech show and come out and have a

successful career, do you think this is maybe something that

will cause more consigners to do that?

Do you kind of see that as being a game changer at all?

I really don't, you know, that was a unique situation.

He was this part of a dispersal estate and so the horsemen all

understood why he was galloping. They still, you know, when you

buy a 2 year old, it's it's a different, it's a different

breed. I buy different, you know, what

I buy as a yearling is different than what I buy as a 2 year old.

And, and we want to see, you know, you want to see him

perform, you want to see how they move, how they do it.

And, and I mean the sale, the 2 year old sales have been just

phenomenal. You know, I think I probably

bought 25 Breeders' Cup horses. I bought a Breeders' Cup winner,

Shamrock Rose Wunder Gadot got beat ahead in those.

I bought her there, you know, lots of good, lots of good

horses and and of course, Sandman.

So it's just a great place to buy.

We bought Vixen, who's going to be one of the favorites here

Tuesday in the Owls Appalachian. So no, it's good, but I don't

know. Yeah, I don't.

I I personally don't think that it's going to turn a lot just

because of Sandman. Well, looking at this past OBS

March sale, I know we got the April sale coming up here on

next week. Just kind of what are your

thoughts on how the sale season has been going so far with these

two year olds in training this year?

Well, as a buyer, I thought the OBS March sale was as strong as

ever. We we we attempted by 5 or 6

horses and for the most part didn't get close.

I think the April sale is going to be extremely strong as well.

Like I said, it's so it's so successful.

It's hard to deny that. And it just grows and grows.

And now, you know, the, the horsemen that prepare these

horses are, are experts and they're extremely good at what

they're doing. They're getting, they get these

young horses ready and a lot of people, you know, want to say,

Oh, well, they do too much. But you know, to me, proof is in

the pudding. And.

So far the puddings been very tasty.

And I know we had some members of OBS on the podcast in the

last couple weeks that have broken down some of those

numbers to show just how successful it's been.

But Ocala, you know, down in Florida, we've talked as well on

the podcast a couple times about this decoupling issue that's

going on down there. Before we kind of delve into

that, though, what does it just say about the Florida community?

The fact that the OBS March sale was so strong despite

everything, What's going on down there?

Well, I think again, you know, the people that are now in this

involved and and selling these two year olds are so good at

what they do. And you know, it's great for

Ocala and it's it's a wonderful place to get them ready and and

you see them running well. So yeah, they're good at what

they do. Yeah.

Now you have, you know, large presence down there in Florida.

You have your Cassie training center, you're part of the OBS

team, you race at Gulfstream Park all the time.

Just for you personally, your operation, just kind of what is

this decoupling bill kind of mean to you?

And then overall, why is it so important to get this beat for

Florida industry as a whole and why is the Florida industry so

important to horse racing? Well, I, I think to beat this

bill is important for all of racing.

You know, we have an ecosystem where, you know, tracks are fed.

Just think about this right now. The suggestion is that they're

going to run for seven years, but only 40 days a year.

Well, if you think about it, from middle of November till the

beginning of April, there's no turf racing.

Yeah, a little bit at Tampa, New Orleans.

I mean, I've went there year after year and it seems like we

get washed off, you know, and just think about it, how our,

our turf forces become so their, their turf programs have become

so important and here could you imagine not having a good turf

program to run for four or five months?

So that's why it's important there.

You, you talk about the sales and you know, I, I, I've, now,

I, I tell everybody I've trained horses for 47 years.

I've been in politics for about two months.

And it's frustrating. It's very frustrating.

But as I, I tried to explain to the senators the other day, you

have a, you know, right now we run 200 days a year in Florida.

And if you, we go to 40 that we're cutting our, you know, our

earning power by 80%. And, and just think about if

that happens when horses can't earn money, what happens?

They devalue. And it just, it's not good.

It's not good for the horses that come to Keeneland to run in

the, you know, the turf races. It's not good for New York.

So it's a big deal. We're fighting hard.

I've already, I think it had been 30 years since I was in

Tallahassee. And I've been there three Times

Now in the last 2 1/2 weeks. I've had the privilege of

meeting the governor, I've met the the president of the Senate,

I've met the attorney general, and it's a fight.

I will say one thing. I've never seen horsemen come

together like they've come together for this.

It doesn't matter whether you live in Florida, California,

Kentucky, New York, they're all involved.

Yeah, Remember, I talked to Ron Maquette yesterday.

There was a flooding at a training center near Oaklawn

Park, and they were getting the horses, and that was one of the

thing, getting the horses out. And that was one of the things

he mentioned was that in times of crisis, the horse racing

community just always kind of seems to come together.

He made the comment of, you know, if a fireman's coming, I'd

rather see a horseman than a fireman because I know the

horseman's coming around the corner and he's going to know

what to do. So we're seeing that same thing

of everybody coming together in Florida for you.

Yeah, go. Ahead, well, I was going to say

and and though it's scary, I think if we get the time, we

have a lot of great minds that love our sport and of course I'm

an optimist or I'm going to be a horse trainer.

I feel like if we get the time to do this we're going to be

stronger and better. We just need a little bit of

time and it's inevitable that Gulfstream is going to shut down

at some point. So we have to understand that.

But we have to go and figure out where the best place to to race

is. And there's different opinions.

But ultimately I have a 21 year, 22 year old son, Colby and his

girlfriend Taylor Davis is 22 as well.

And after they went, she went up and testified in the next that

evening, she was crying and upset and she was because she

said, you know, I love this and I, I want to continue doing it.

And I'm, I'm worried. And I told both of them, don't

you worry. They've they've awoken a

sleeping lying. So losing is not an option.

Well, you mentioned kind of that personal connection to it for

you. Why is it so important for you

to be one of the kind of the leading focal points against

this movement? Well, for just a reason that I,

I just mentioned, you know, I have my son Norman, my son

Colby, but so many, you know, Taylor Davis, her mom worked for

me before she was ever born. So there's a lot of young

people. I got a text from one of my

assistants. I was pretty frustrated.

We were driving home, it's a 3 hour drive up, 3 hour drive

back. The last time I rode in a bus

with a bunch of people, which I I liked.

I thought it was nice to. That was nice of them to do that

kind of bus everybody up there. And I felt like we kind of came

together. But you know, like I said, I

think we can be stronger and I just, we just got to keep

fighting. And the one thing that I've

always said this, this business has been very good to me.

I've been doing it 47 years. And my, my promise to myself was

when I leave this business, it's going to be better than when I,

I started it. So you ask why I do it.

That's why I do it. Well, flipping back now to

Sandman, kind of building off of that with everything that is

going on, with everything that you're working for right now,

what would it mean to you to breakthrough and finally win

that first Kentucky Derby with Sandman here in a couple weeks?

Well, they did a show on my brother and I when I was 12 and

I think I maybe when Classic Empire ran, they, they showed

it, but they, they asked me when I was 12 years old, What do you

want to do when you get older? And I said, I want to win the

Kentucky Derby. Well, I've been trying for 47

years and, and it, it, it hasn't happened, but we're not giving

up. And so it would mean a lot, you

know, as, as, as, as someone that has loved this game since

being a little boy. You know, when I was 12, I was

reading the racing form. What is you?

What does every anybody, people that don't know anything about

horse racing know what the Kentucky Derby is?

Yeah, and I want to win it. Well, you also have had a lot of

success. You're a dual Hall of Famer.

That means both the United States and in Canada.

You've had a lot of success in the Canadian Kentucky Derby, the

Kings Plate or formerly known as the Queen's Plate.

What are your 3 year old options looking like for that this year?

You got a good team coming together and I always got a

couple pointing that way. Yeah, we have.

We have a cult, actually. I'm going to run him here.

I don't know. We've switched days so much on

it. Ashley's Archer, I think he has

a shot. He's run well so far.

And I have a Philly called War Signal who's by war of Will that

is really thriving right now. And I think, I think she could

win the Kings plate. There you go, You heard it here

first. We have another Philly pointing

towards the Kings plate that's got a good shot here.

You also have a little car of running in the Ashland Stakes

here tomorrow or when people are listening to this today with all

the changes. Yeah, whatever day it ends up

being. Yes, she is running in the

Ashland trying to get into the Kentucky Oaks here.

She had that big win coming off the layoff down at Tampa Bay

Down. She ran second last time out.

Just how she coming into this race.

She's coming into it great. We kind of knew going into the

Devona Dale, I believe it was that it was back a little quick,

but I did it more to set her up for this.

She's really good right now and we're going to find out where

she fits in. You know, she, I think she's

already got enough points to qualify for the Oaks, but we

don't want to just run in the Oaks.

We want to feel like we have a good shot.

So she she needs to give us a good effort tomorrow.

Awesome. All right.

Well, thank you so much for taking the time with me here,

Mark. Appreciate you joining us here

on the show and keep fighting down there in Florida.

We're all rooting for you guys. Well, I appreciate it.

Don't worry, we won't. Awesome.

Thank you, Mark, for joining us. All right, so thanks to trader

Mark Cassie for joining Sean at Keeneland opening day on a

Sunday. Of course we've talked about

that at Keeneland Racecourse Sandman in the Kentucky Derby.

Obviously he's the headline as far as on the track stuff, but I

thought his his comments on on decoupling were something that

we should talk about here, kind of pause the show and talk about

that and it you know when and this is going to sound

self-serving, but I promise it isn't.

But when you interviewed me for the Blood Horse interview, I

closed you. You said, what's your favorite

thing about horse racing? And I and so many people, all

the horses and I love this. And it's a reasonable thing to

love the horses to the equine athletes of our sport.

They're fantastic. They're masterful, really.

But man, it's the people for me. And Mark hit on something that

really always stands out for me, which is he got on that bus,

which is I man, to be a family on the wall that bus, to be on

that bus from Tampa to Tallahassee.

And he said, you know, the, the momentum was growing on that

bus. You could sense that the, that

people were really into that 'cause there was, there was real

camaraderie on that bus. And, and I said my favorite part

of horse racing is the people because they care so damn much.

And it's almost like A cause for so many of them.

When Mark Cassie says, I want to leave the sport better than when

I found it, he means it. That isn't, that isn't lip

service in a hallway at Keeneland.

That's legitimate concern from a man who wants this for his

child. He brought up his 22 year old

son. He wants this for him and he

knows the important part that that Florida plays in the

ecosystem of our sport. And for it to just go away 40

days is not a compromise. It's not a compromise.

Dropping 80% of a product is not a compromise.

It just isn't. And so to, to pretend as though

there's any kind of, of progress with that number one is silly.

But #2 I'm, I'm, I appreciate that he went right after what

this really is. And it's, it's just, it's just

an attempt to kill racing. Yeah, it was powerful words that

he had there, you know, kind of talking about the, you know, the

personal impact that it has on him, on his family, on his team.

But then also, you know, the part that I was really

interested in the most when he brought it up was something I

hadn't really thought about before.

The impact it would then have on turf racing as a whole.

Because, you know, you have out in California which horses over

here, chances that they're going to ship out there just for turf

racing, Probably not, not that high.

And then you have Fairgrounds is running on the turf, but, you

know, they tend to have a lot of weather sometimes.

Which do you you know? Florida does as well, but you

have two options in. Florida, you know, frankly, a

couple years ago at fairgrounds they had the, they had the the

salinization issue with having to use sea water, right, with

some of that issue as well. So it's it's look they they

fixed it and they deserve a lot of credit.

Frankly, I'm I'm stunned at how well that came back.

But Arkansas, Oakland doesn't have a turf course.

I mean, these are the points that he was.

Making but think about the impact that would then have.

You know, all these turf horses they had don't have racing for

four or five months. They're not prepared to go into

the Keeneland meet. So all those big Grade 1 turf

races that we're about to have here at Keeneland that those

would suffer. Those races at Churchill on

Derby Day would probably suffer a little bit.

You have all those big turf races that pop up in May and

June on the Naira circuit and you know horses aren't going to

be able to get ready for those and prep for those down in

Florida. So that's the lasting impact.

This is something that will impact the entire racing

industry, not just Florida if it happens.

This is something that would have, you know, that kind of

that countrywide impact on everything that the racing

industry is. It's interesting as well that

we're talking about the racing side.

I very few people do that when they talk about the implications

of losing Florida as part of the, as part of the ecosystem,

especially of racing, let's call it east of the Mississippi or

east of the Rockies, whatever you want to call it, right.

And the the turf implications, very interesting, especially as

we know, look, I was at Aqueduct over the week and we talked

about it earlier in the show. That place isn't going to be

around. And frankly, when it is, they

put a tarp over it, right. And bail bonds building a Tepita

course because they know what the future is.

And it's something that looks like what they do at Turfway

Park, but a combination with dirt for them.

Yeah, right. And but that's not turf.

It just isn't right. And the idea that a horse can

prep just as well on the Tepita as they can on the turf.

I'm open to that conversation. It's not the same though.

It's OK, say out loud. That's one of the things,

because Mark and I were talking for a little bit before we

started that interview and that was one of the things that we

had mentioned in that is like, yeah, you do have the Tepita

option, but it's it's not the same.

And if you have that top level Grade 1 grass horse, you're

probably not going to want to shift to the synthetic unless

you have to because the, you know, rained off or something

like that, which then you'd probably still scratch.

But you're not going to want to prep them on that.

You're going to want them on the grass every single start.

Interesting where this goes from here, but it it is obvious that

one side had many, many people there and that was the anti

decoupling people and the other side had one.

And so hopefully the the legislators in Florida will vote

for what their constituents want and and look at a an option

against decoupling there in Florida.

I really do appreciate Mark Cassie.

He also has Sandman in the Derby and we've heard for weeks from

our colleague Frank Anks there at blood horse bloodhorse.com.

By the way, go find all the Frank's stuff.

We let Frank get a day off today.

What a what a what a kind podcast.

But that Arkansas route Frank's really, really high on you saw

cold battle at Churchill this morning.

Seem to take really well do these things and look really

great. How good was the Arkansas route?

I know we you know, we talked to open the show about the three

preps that happened over the weekend.

Of course, Keeneland tomorrow. Where are you at on that

Arkansas route? How good is Sandman?

He's legit. Yeah, he he's legit.

And I do think that Oaklawn route was pretty good.

And one of another thing, you know, Mark Cassie brought up in

that interview there that I thought was a good point was

just the, the field size. He's had the experience with the

field size. And so you look at we talked

about journalism and him overcoming the traffic earlier,

you know, that's a 5 horse field.

What happens in the Derby if he runs into that trouble, gets out

of it and then there's still 10 more horses.

You know, Sandman's experience with that.

He's had the bad starts. He's weaved his way through

these large fields and I think that is, you know, from a from

a, you know, experience perspective, I think that is a

huge advantage that he has. You know, he's going to have to

weave his way in and out as they come into the stretch here for

the Kentucky Derby. That's just the nature of the

race for a horse like him. So I think that's definitely

going to be a key player. So I think it's a, it was a

tough Rd. of horses down there. I thought there were some really

good horses down there that will do a lot in their careers and I

think that that coupled with the experience you got with those

larger fields, see if it's him a phenomenal chance.

There's a point that that some trainers make and Cassie made it

here about even the non horse racing person knows what the

Kentucky Derby is. I I have news for for folks.

Nobody in horse racing that's a Mark Cassie type really cares if

the general public knows that he won the Kentucky Derby.

I don't think at least I think that I think he just wants to

win it because look, I'm a lucky guy, Sean.

I get to I get to do a lot of different shows, talk to a lot

of different people in our sport.

And I always ask trainers, you know, when you go to bed

tonight, do you allow yourself to dream of being in the

Kentucky Derby winner's circle? And they all say yes because you

and, and, and Cassie mentioned it during the interview, which

was you, you have to be an optimist.

You have to be a dreamer to be in this sport because there's

the lows are tough, man. The lows in horse racing are

unlike any other sport. But the highs, man, goodness

gracious, they're so, so great. You don't dream.

Of the highs that keep you going.

Yeah, you know, and and, you know, I told some stories from

Aqueduct earlier this week, you know, earlier in the show.

Excuse me? And it's it's just when you get

around the people who are around it, you have to have that kind

of attitude. It's just a requirement because

you go crazy, I'm sure otherwise.

So no, really, really great interview there with Mark.

Nice job by the way, I appreciate him jumping on we've.

Got another cool background there, the painting at Keenwind.

Listen, the show is just dominating.

Background doesn't stack up against the Frank Angst

bookshelf. OK, it doesn't but.

I figured, but it's a good second.

Bro I was at Blood Horse last Wednesday and hanging out with

you guys. That bookshelf is better in

person isn't. It dude, there's several high

level bookshelves at Blood Horse High level like stallion

registries from the 1830s. Let's go.

Stuff. I've also racing nerds.

Dreams, I've often thought, could you start a Twitter page

with the bookshelves of horse racing?

I think you'd have 1000 followers in a week.

Yeah, people would contribute, people with absolute horse.

Ones I know you and I got to see the Monmouth Park one last.

Year yes for sure we did the show up there.

Listen the finest 1 going right now I want to give a shout out

to somebody Dan Illman has but wherever they're putting him at

Laurel Park it's the best place that I've ever seen in

librarian. Illman is my favorite thing

going on sweater right now. I don't know what else to tell

you. It's my favorite thing.

It's a very Louis thing to like but it is come on get better get

better Louie. You need to be better.

Where's that stallion registry? Would you do?

And hey, our friend Olivia Newman is down there in Florida

for that OBS sale. And hey, OBS continues to be the

two year old source. 9 graduates from OBS April have won grade

one since 2024. And the most recent is Cavalieri

winning that prestigious beholder mile.

The April sale will be held April 15th through 18th.

The under tack is set for April 6th through 11th.

And here is our colleague Olivia with OBS President Tom Ventura

on the OBS April sale. You'll hear from them now.

Welcome into the show, Tom Ventura, president of Ocala

Breeder Sales. Tom, thanks for joining us.

What's the field down in Ocala going into the April sale?

We're coming off of a good, very good March sale and you know the

horses are running. Coming out of the sales though,

I think it's very positive vibe coming in.

The cover of the OBS catalog for the April sale features pictures

of several graduates who are racing in top races around the

world this weekend. There's Chancellor Mcpatrick,

who races in the rescheduled Bluegrass Stakes at Keeneland on

Tuesday, April 8th and will try to qualify for the Kentucky

Derby. Tenma is favored in the Santa

Anita Oaks, a prep for the Kentucky Oaks, and Mixed O who

races in the Dubai World Cup. Can you just talk a little bit

about that? Yeah, that's what, you know,

that's what we're all trying to do this for.

It's nice to sell horses for a lot of money, but they need to

go on and run. And that certainly has been the

case for a long time. And this is an exciting weekend

with some, you know, top quality races all around.

Well, not a weekend, I guess we'll call it an extended

weekend with the Keeneland rescheduling.

But you know this the the the horses run and certainly are at

the top of their class and that is advertising you can't buy.

So they just need to go out and show their best.

And hopefully it's the beginning of a long year, a Goodyear for

him. Speaking of Derby horses,

Sandman was an OBS March graduate.

He was very impressive in last weekend's Arkansas Derby and

sits at the top of the Kentucky Derby leaderboard.

Can you talk about him a little bit?

Also, he didn't breeze at the sale.

He was a Gallup only horse, but still sold for 1.2 million.

Do you think that will become a more popular option you?

Know Sandman showed I know that they had a lot of high hopes

from early on and he finally put it all together he'd run a

couple of top races, but he put it all together last weekend and

you know five weeks from now until the the big dance in the

Kentucky Derby and there he's already settled in at Churchill

Downs. So looking good for him and, you

know, he he, he has a style of running where he's, you know,

coming from off the pace. So he'll need some pace to start

with and some ability to, to go through traffic.

But what he did last weekend was ultra impressive.

And, you know, I think he's got a, a, a big future in front of

him. And now with, with all of these

Triple Crown kicking off and the, the races in the fall with,

I think the distance shouldn't be a problem for him at all.

And regarding the, you know the galloping, he was a gallop

horse. Unfortunately Mr. Lolfenbach,

the breeder passed away and we we have the opportunity to sell,

you know, several of his horses as 2 year olds last last March.

And you know he was one of those horses and he galloped through

the lane. And obviously we invite Tappet

with the pedigree that he had attracted a lot of attention on

his own. And one of the things not

directly because of that, but one of the things we did is to

give a consignor the option upfront to indicate that they

were going to gallop only because sometimes if a horse

gallops at, at our sail and there's there's question mark as

to why is he galloping and not and not breathing and there's

concerns as well as did he miss training?

Is he not quite ready? You know what?

So if you take that question mark away and, and, and the, the

way we did that was that if someone wanted to enter Gallup

only they had to do it at entry time, not at, not at the time of

the under cat show, but at entry time so that it's, it's

disclosed right there on the catalog page and there's no

changing it. You can't change your mind at

that point. And if there's not a a lot of

horses that are entered in March, I think we had four or

five and in April we have four or five.

But it's another Ave. for sellers that can can put their

horses and choose what they want to do with it and it may grow.

I think ultimately it's still a performance sale and the it'll

it'll help the horses like a Sandman who have a very good

pedigree and they can, you know, gallop and and still get top

value. But I do do think giving that

options and taking away the question marks that are

sometimes associated with the horses that that gallop is

certainly a positive. Going through the catalog there

are some exciting pedigrees including Hip 1/19, a half

brother to Straight No Chaser, the Breeders Cup Sprint winner

and Eclipse Champion sprinter last year.

This has to be one of the top pedigrees offered, right?

Yeah. Anything along those lines, You

know, you have he certainly that pedigree doesn't need a lot of

help anymore at this point in time, but certain any any news,

fresh news like that, you know, he's he's stepped up a couple

times in big races and you know, hopefully he continues on his on

his way. He's not a he's a relatively

lightly raced horse. So he has a, you know, a longer

career, hopefully in front of him.

Straight note, Chaser is at the top of his class, one of the

best sprinters in the world and certainly good to have someone

related to him. And obviously 1/2 is is going to

be a popular item. At least we hope so.

Definitely some other top pedigrees include 1/2 to Monomoy

Girl, a Quality Rd. Philly out of Grade 1 winner Mia

Mischief. How does this catalog compare to

March? Well, I think March and April

are very close, you know, in terms of the, the quality of the

of the pedigrees. I think it's really become more

of a let me put the horse in in the best spot.

And because we see, you know, very high end horses in both

sails and I think the horses that are, have taken to training

and are, are, are more forward go to March and do well.

I think, you know, and then I think there's just some

consignors that prefer just the extra few weeks and, and being

April. But in terms of the quality, you

know, they're very close. The numbers are actually close.

March is still has a higher average and median, but they're

the gap is closing. And I think that, you know,

they're very comparable in, in the two.

We can only take 1200 horses. That's our capacity.

And you know, we, we've been over capacity, you know, for

many years. And so there is a, a system we

have in place. We don't do physical inspections

of these horses. We do, we do some, but for the

most part for a for April, we try and put put our best foot

forward work with the consignors and you know get their their

best horses for for this sale that that are targeted towards

March, right. Thanks so much for joining us,

Tom, and best of luck with the Under Tax show next week and

I'll catch up with you at the sale.

That sounds good. We have a few more running over

in Dubai and hopefully they're successful there.

But I think that's, you know, you made the point earlier that

you know, the a lot of big racing happening this weekend

and the one thing, whether it's overseas or or right here in the

US, that's that's gets everybody's attention.

It doesn't matter how many ads we put out.

It's the horses that are our best advertisement.

So let's hope for a good weekend and and a Monday and Tuesday.

And I hope the weather is a little more accommodating in

Lexington. And I hope whatever weather

they're getting makes a a northerly route rather than a

southerly route, because we're definitely we're about to have

our under tax show starting on Sunday.

So I hope that the weather gods are are cooperating with us.

Me. Too.

Hi, thanks to Olivia and Tom there for their their updates

from down there in Ocala in Florida.

Of course, a big, a big Florida show today, who knew?

But yes, I appreciate them hanging out and you, you wanted

to mention a couple of horses out of that spring sale as well.

Well, you know, they did this interview on Friday before the

weekend races, and we had some pretty good results from those

horses. They talked about Tenva came

coming back to win the San Anita Oaks.

You had Micksto run a huge second out there in the Dubai

World Cup and we got Chancellor Mcpatrick coming up tomorrow in

the Bluegrass, which we're about to talk talk about here.

But you know. That just goes to show no,

that's. Right place to be at this time

of year. It's.

Not even a question the the meeksto story.

What a fascinating running in Northern California runs second

in some like I'm not kidding, like the I think the Pleasanton

miles, right, Pleasanton mile wins.

The wins just goes up doesn't just win dominates the Pacific

class right comes back has an and it goes overseas.

He's great, he's great. It's just a reminder that, you

know, horses develop, horses develop #1 and #2 everyone tells

me they want horses to run. And then when Mixto wins the the

Pacific Classic, everyone gets angry.

No, no, you don't get to have both either horses run and you,

you get upset with the, the outcomes or, or you don't.

And, and I just, I'm glad he ran.

And it's it's a fun one to watch, man it.

Really is. I thought he had it there for a

while. Hitcho came out of nowhere.

I had to. He just popped on the screen it

seemed like in the last 60 from a mile.

But he ran a mixto, ran a huge race a.

Huge race and by the way, still a huge check for a second.

So I mean, no, it's. Probably better than winning a

lot of races over. Here no doubt about all of them

they'll know exactly what the very few especially very few

especially stateside outside the brews Cup classic with that kind

of check, but just your operation benefits from a horse

like me so way more than people understand and so find that at a

2 year old in training sale develop him the way that they

have very very impressive for sure.

The bluegrass is tomorrow at Keeneland you and I will both be

in attendance. I was a little surprised here.

And by the way, seven horses, great field.

This is the exact field we want for the last 100 point race.

I'll start with this though. Any concern that this is 3 days

later than usual? The only concern I have

potentially is not not impacting their Kentucky Derby, you know,

as we get into the future, but just the fact that they, you

know, how did that impact the training?

No. Is somebody going to run bigger

because they kind of were able to keep their training together

better than somebody else or one of these top horses not going to

run as well because they had to delay the training.

I talked to Ian Wilkes at Churchill this morning about

that with Burnham Square, who he's got coming to this race.

He said for the most part they were still able to go go out

there and he didn't seem too concerned about it because all

seven of them were in the same boat.

But will that have an impact or maybe somebody were expecting to

run big doesn't and maybe somebody who we're not expecting

to run big does because they handled this three day delay a

little bit better than everyone else did?

Owen Almighty comes in three to one, but it's River Thames who

finished second in the Fountain of Youth, right behind

Sovereignty that comes in as the five to two favorite.

You mentioned Burnham Square, he'll be 92, fourth favorite,

fourth choice here. The rare Kenny Mcpeak's got a

horse in the race and Brian's riding for Ian Wilkes moment

with Burnham Square. And then, of course, E Ave.

Chancer. I mean, this is a loaded, loaded

race. Were you surprised to see River

Thames is the five to two favorite?

I was. I think y'all know he has

talent, but I think the. Question I love him.

I love him in this spot. 1-2 back.

Yes, you love, but I thought he ran a great race trying two

turns for the first time found you.

But I thought they were. I thought there were enough

people that came out of the fountain of you questioning his

distance abilities to wear it. And that doesn't mean he's not

going to win tomorrow, but I do. That makes me surprised he was

the morning line favorite out of this field.

Fair enough. Especially now, you know,

everybody questions Owen Almighty's distance as well, but

he is at least coming out of, you know, a strong looking

victory in the Tampa Bay Derby. Yeah, Chancellor Mcpatrick, 2

time Grade 1 winner last year. He's getting the stretch out in

distance. And so this is going to be a

pretty good field. I know it was tough to probably

pick a morning line favor. We'll see how the odds shake out

whether they agree with the morning line or not.

But yeah, that did catch me by surprise.

Yeah, I was a little surprised by that.

But to be fair, there's what, 2-3 to one horses and a seven to

two horse, so not as though he's.

A large morning line favorite. Yeah, right.

So I, you know, it does feel like they're at least spreading

out who they think the top 3 or 4 will be off the board though.

Render judgement 20 to one or Admiral Dennis at 20 to 1.

Which one do you think will run better tomorrow?

Do you have a sense of either? I have, I really liked Render

Judgement when he broke his maiden last year at Churchill

and I've been waiting for him to kind of run that big race and I

thought the Virginia Derby was an improvement.

I thought he got into the race a little bit earlier.

I thought he ran very well in that race and just American

Promise just kind of freaked and ran away from the field that

day. So I am interested to see how he

bounces back off of that. Yeah, render judgement as far as

qualifying for the Derby should be in, right or no?

He's got, what, 25 out of that race?

He could probably. He I think he's sitting at like

29 or something right now. So I think a top three finish

should get him in the top four finish will put it, or a fourth

place finish would put him right on the Bumble if I'm remembering

points. So that's that's pretty

exciting, especially for those those connections.

Sheldon Russell keeps the mount from Virginia Derby here in this

case, which is interesting as well.

What do you make of a horse like East Avenue who did have his

best performance ever at A at a Keeneland?

He did have his best performance at Keeneland, but is he going to

see the same track he did in the fall or are we going to?

Yeah, it's still going to be pretty sloppy.

So how will he respond to that? He's the question mark.

You know, he is a horse that probably if you had, if he was,

this was his first race of the year, he'd probably be the

morning line favorite and. How funny.

Interesting. Yeah, good point.

And the fact that he ran so bad last time is interesting.

Luan Machado picks up the mount for from the injured Tyler

Gafflione. So we'll see what he's got this

week and I'm interested to see. I'm assuming he's going to be

going for the lead. I imagine based off the last two

races just put him back at what was successful for him last

year. Was that what you would think

he'd be? I think they need to be forward

with him. Yes, no question.

And I think no. And and well, look, switch back

to Luan Machado, who look, he he broke his maiden at Ellis Park,

part of the two year old program down there with Luan in the

irons. Moved to Tyler after that for

the Breeders fraternity, which is a a logical move in that

case. Goes to the Breeders Cup

Juvenile doesn't show up that way, but he's he's so all or

nothing. It feels like with him, either

he breaks his maiden by a billion or he can't even get out

of the gate. It just it feels like it's all

or nothing. And and so, yeah, I'm really,

really interested. And then what do you make a

chance for? Man?

Do you think that the stretch out's going to work?

I think so. OK, Yeah, I think he's going to

be he's going to be coming. I hope the pace sets up for him

so we can see what he has. But I did like in the Tampa Bay

Derby, he did sit a little bit closer and I think Owen Almighty

got away from him, but he kind of hung in that second spot.

I think if he gets to stalk the pace again, I think now that he

has that experience, he'll have a little a little bit of more of

a kick in the stretch from the stocking position second time

around. Sean and I will be at Keeneland

tomorrow for the Bluegrass. So of course we will talk about

that next Monday here on Blood Horse Monday.

And of course, I think next Monday sets up well for us as

well to talk about the foreign path to the Kentucky Derby as

well. So we'll do all of that on the

coming Monday and we want to really encourage folks this time

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Well, this has been another edition of Blood Horse Monday

for Sean. I'm Louis.

We'll be back in a week, but look for Frank Eggs on that

episode and I'm sure as we get closer to the Derby, we're going

to know the field by the time we get back together, or at least

the top 20, three, 4:00-ish. Last couple years we really had

to watch those AES. It's probably something we'll

have to do this year as well. We'll see you next Monday.

Thanks for starting your week with us.

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