Kentucky Derby Week 2025 | John Cherwa & Ron Flatter

Chill downs. It's Derby Week Tuesday hanging

out with you, Raboa Co on ESP 680 and 105.7.

Say hi to your mom for me. I'm Louis Rabo, hanging out with

a couple of friends of mine and a couple of guys that I look up

to in a very, very serious way. My former editor at the Los

Angeles Times, John Service, sit at the table.

How about that, Johnny? How are you?

I'm great, am I? Which one of us is Co?

Oh, and Co, it's everyone. It's Everyone is a conclusive

show. Oh, yeah, yeah.

How about that? How are you?

How was the trip in Florida? You're right.

Yeah, it was. Dogs good and all the things,

yeah. Griff is now 16.

How about that? And doing well, I, as I normally

do when I come to Louisville, I, I flew to Cincinnati.

CVG is the play for sure for so many.

People because I there is few airports worse than Louisville

the day after. OHH after Derby.

Derby and I remember one time I was on a plane and I don't think

the pilot was guessing, he said. We're #33 in line, and because

I'm flying from Louisville to Orlando, you know there's a

connect in there somewhere. Of course.

Yeah, right. OK, Well, home game for Ron

Flatter Horse Racing Nation, of course.

Horseracingnation.com. Yeah, and and the Ron Fletcher,

Ron Franklin, Ron Flatter Racing pod, of course.

Thank you. I will tell you that I have

flown out of Muhammad Ali Airport as well in Louisville.

You know it's a bad airport when you actually have to have the

pilot wait and put deodorant under the plane's wings because

it does chafe before takeoff. They don't de ice, they chafe.

And it's a terrible, terrible airport.

So you can't, you can't get anywhere from here.

You can't get here from anywhere That's Louisville.

It should be on the license plates.

It should be. And I think the only planes that

have just, you know, just the absolute free rein are the UPS

planes. They can kind of go wherever

they want, whatever they want, fly as low over houses as they

feel like. Yeah.

Interestingly, my wife actually put herself in one of those

boxes and got to send herself to Vienna nonstop.

It was an amazing not so long. Ago.

All right, so the podcast last week, this week, tell people

about it so they can go find it. You, you have, I think you're

amongst the standards of the podcast.

Oh well, thank you, thank you. We have Brent Musburger on a

little known guy and Robert Horatio Baffert also on the pod

last week we have our Hardcore Handicappers episode, which is

always the most listened to most watched episode of the entire

year. It's up on YouTube and it's up

on the where you get podcasts. And then this week we're going

to have like the cast of thousands, every trainer.

And, you know, I mean, John, John, he's on every week he's

on. And you know, and The funny

thing is he comes here has to, you know, you pay $20 a night

for a hotel room until Friday when it gets to 2000 a night.

And we and we, I pay him twice as much during the Derby as I

pay him the rest of the year. You put that zero to the left of

the check there is that how that?

Works something like that, yeah. So our budget.

We fatten our budget come Derby time.

You know, it's the standard rate.

It's also the rate of the horse racing happy hour too.

Yeah. No, that's right.

Yeah, the same exact rate. You rent you now you got the big

house. Do you rent rooms out or

anything like that? All right.

Have you ever been, have you ever had people offer to say,

hey, let us come to your house, you get out for a little while,

get out of town or whatever, we'll rent your house for some?

Gazillion dollars or in in previous iterations of life when

children were not requiring places to stay and that kind of

thing. Yes, for sure.

So the kids are kind of a burden to your ability to make money

on. Cramping my style real estate.

Yeah, OK. Property management being he'd

be damned with the kids. Yeah, Louis actually offered

that I could stay at his house, at least in the past, so.

You know something my wife and I we don't?

I believe you. I wanted to have you on John

specifically because we have a horse on the also eligible list

who finished second in the Santa Anita Derby.

Obviously, with the change of the point system this year, he

did not qualify based on the field size in the Santa Anita

Derby. How have you, how were you

before this happened, and how do you feel now that it's actually

happened? Well, I'm still, you know,

hoping that he gets in, but you know, because there there's Owen

Almighty does not belong in the race and actually render

judgement doesn't either, except for the fact there's the Toby

Keith angle. But you know, I talked at length

with John Sheriffs yesterday and he feels really good about the

horse. He did not want to bring the

horse here. He wanted to take him to the

Preakness, but he was overruled by the by the owners.

I think the same thing that happened with Kenny and and

render judgment. And with Owen almighty.

And with Owen Almighty and. Bryan Lynch.

Probably flying Mohawk too, to be fair of him.

But. Yeah, but he was the wise guy

horse in the San Anit Derby. There were a lot of people

talking about him and he he didn't do anything to let us

know that he's he's not the real deal.

It's only this will only be his if he runs, it'll only be his

fifth race. His first three were maidens

took him three times to do it. And then to go from a a maiden

win to finishing second in San Anita Derby, even though they're

only five horses, is still pretty remarkable.

And and you know, sheriffs is here and he's feels good about

it. But you know, Johnny basically

says the only problem is someone has to scratch out.

And I hate to see that happen with somebody and the.

Undesirable part of this, but we and we always Tuesday think we

know what the field is going to look like and we simply don't,

right? And so I think he'll draw in at

some. Point some point, something

unexpected, it's going to happen.

We're all going to end up being awakened from our, you know, our

stoopers in the middle of the afternoon.

And day has happened. Omaha Beach has happened, right?

Look, this, the Baeza situation, I think underscores the flaw in

the penalty that was created for small fields, which we have come

to call the California rule, even though it also applied to

things it would have applied to the Fountain of Youth.

Last year, it applied at Fairgrounds, a Churchill own

track for the first Oaks qualifier in the so-called

Championship Series. To me, you're penalizing the

people who are helping the field size, not the ones.

How do you penalize people who are not taking part?

It's the same thing where you say Baffert's ruining Southern

California because he keeps loading all the races.

Well, no. The blame goes to the people who

are not coming to the races. And John and I have debated

this. I say that you take a race and

don't penalize this year. But if this year field size is

short, or maybe you say 2 years in a row the field size is

short, kick it off the trail, give everybody a year's notice

and do it that way. I think it's a terrible.

Idea see but that but but John has no idea about what's going

on and. You can't not have the Santa

Anita Derby as a prep. Excuse me?

We came this close last year to having no horses from Santa

Anita Derby in the race. That is true.

But so you can on merit. I I think that it is a, it is

such a, a good race, such a even though they're only it's a small

field. But that's the point.

So put them, put them in. But if you're going to, but if

you're going to penalize, do it with notes.

Don't do it like with basically Baeza and the connections had

less than a week's notice to know that the field is going to

be short. It wasn't like they could about

facing head to the wood, but if that's.

Going to work, but if that were to happen, they would go to like

a Doug, Doug O'Neill or you know, a trainer with a lot of

horses and say please, please enter a horse in the San Anita.

They're going to make sure that if, if, if they get to where

they're not going to be around, then they'll, they'll just have

a. Horse So you want to have a race

full of straw men just to prop up the the prestige of the race,

which is clearly withering. Yeah, I was going to say.

That's what you want. Yeah, John doesn't care about

the field size, right? I mean, it's essentially.

Yeah, right. The race is the race.

I mean, I, I it's amazing how often I'll watch a historical

race like a wood memorial from 25 years ago or something.

There's six horses in it. Yeah.

I mean, we act like this is a brand new phenomenon that

happens. You know citation, citation who?

Of course you know I covered back in 48 citation.

Look at the field sizes he faced in the Triple Crown races.

Right, Right. I mean, is it that big of a sin?

Is it 17 times ever that we've had twenty horses actually in

the Kentucky or 19 something like that, that we.

Yeah, more recently it it as the full crop dwindles, we still get

20. So anyway, I mean, to me,

publisher should not be in the race.

Publisher could hit the board. I think he could hit the board,

but doesn't mean he should be in the race as a maiden.

OK, that's been a contentious point is.

That a bar, is that it? No.

But is that is that a qualifier for you?

To me, make the rules say, OK, don't in a in an oversubscribed

Derby, don't let a maiden in. You can use the point system,

but if you're a maiden, if you won a points race for the

Kentucky Derby, you should have priority over a maiden.

Now that that could take out some other horses in this in

this field, but by ASA to me would have 50 points, not 37

1/2. This wouldn't even be an issue,

but I would kick a mate. I brought that up with Steve

Aspen and he looked at me. He says, well then you make the

rules. Well, it is incredible, frankly,

just wide numbers that his two horses ended up side by side.

But anyways, I digress. Same thing with the Do Japan

horses. Yeah, it's pretty.

Remarkable. Yeah.

I was just going to say that I asked Sheriff that question.

You know, I tried to bait him into saying something against

the point system and he wouldn't go there.

He just laughed and said no, not in my pay grade, you know, I

don't. It's nothing I can do about it.

Not going to talk about it. There you have it all.

Right. Let's compare journalism to

other horses that have come out of the sand.

I need a Derby. How good is he?

Well, three to 1, three to 1, short man.

I mean, that's a short price in. This, you know, the the same

thing to Derby was an incredible race where he got stopped by the

other sheriff's horse and had to re rally.

And as McCarthy said, Michael McCarthy said at the time, if he

can't do that against five horses, he's got no shot against

twenty horses or nineteen horses.

And I think he's the real deal. I did not.

I don't think his style is conducive to a Triple Crown.

OK, which would be an asterisk one of course, and because of.

The distance. It's Arizona.

Yes, right. Yes.

But I think that that he is the real deal and and he's been

brought along nicely. McCarthy has done a really good

job. Rizpally is a is a good jockey.

He's a better turf jockey than a dirt jockey.

But but, but he's very good so I will not be the tiniest bit

surprised if he wins the Derby. He drew perfectly.

No doubt about it, everything sets up I.

Agree. And you know, you've got the

speed on the inside, you've got, you know, some of the like

Sandman and sovereignty on the far outside.

There's a lot of reasons to like him.

And although, who's this year's wise guy horse?

Faiza. Yeah, I actually, you know, I

think you're right. Yeah, I think, I actually think

you're right. I think it is by easy if he

draws in and if not, maybe Burnham Square.

Yes, for sure. I think those would be.

Incredible to say, but yeah. Those are the two, I would say,

yeah, when you when you consider.

Yeah, right. Exactly.

The number one of the points but no.

But I was saying that yesterday we were doing show and that the

top points getter is is essentially a.

Buzz horse, but what is the international star?

Was that the the top points getter a few years ago is a

horse about as big as you. That's I mean it's not you know,

there's a tiny horse, but was the top points getter.

That just means he races more and nowadays, you know, justify

wasn't the top points getter. You know, I mean he barely got

in and you know, now, as we know, probably shouldn't have,

but but you can't go by that. I and that's I mean, that's part

of the flaw. That's another flaw of the

system. Although I don't I don't I

wouldn't throw the point system out like baby with the

bathwater. But in terms of the horses, I

mean to me, I mean the one that's under the radar to me is

a Bob Baffert horse. Rodriguez.

I mean, totally agree with you. I just think, and I'm he's my

key horse in my bets. I just think style, I think

coming out of a a punched above its weight wood memorial I

think. He's fastest speed figure since

frosted in that race. And if there's no American

pharaoh in 2015, we talk about frosted really differently.

We just do. And so I I'm with you on

Rodriguez. I, I, I keep hearing this is my

favorite line this week. Oh, I think we're past the front

runners getting their way in these classic races.

And I'm like, OK, so who hasn't been here for three years?

Oh, yeah, that's right. The guy who?

Oh, good point. Yeah, please.

Of course it's gone away. Bob hasn't been here.

That's a great. Point authentic kid is running

in this thing. He just lit up the wood

memorial. I I I'm sorry I'm with I

completely agree. I think of the of the ones that

are going to be near the front, Rodriguez.

Just burnished my bet for he's. I like this.

I like that. Easily the best and you did a

great. You do this every year and I

love it. The rundown of the of the final

fractions here, you've sort of taken on the mantle from Jenny,

Yeah, who did other things. But just he makes sense.

So is Keeler. Johnson, by the way, I'll give

Keeler Johnson credited at America's Best Racing, but yeah,

both of us have done that. But.

Yeah, but you went through it and when I saw was he 3rd or 4th

on that list? Off to go back.

Yeah, he's right in. That and that list of course, is

if in your last prep you finished your last furlong in 13

seconds or less and or your last three and 38 seconds or less, he

easily cleared that. So he's he's a really

interesting 1. And I remember being there,

John, and you'll appreciate this woman in the winner circle with

us. We're waiting for the race and,

and I'm like, I, I just don't know if a Southern California

horse is going to like 50 and Rady.

I just. Don't know.

And she goes, well, I'm from LA and I went, how are you feeling?

She goes not great, but I think a horse will be fine and horse

will be fine. And he was very, very fine.

I know it wasn't the fastest early fractions.

Doesn't matter I. Don't think it matters either.

I agree he doesn't have to be in the lead.

Time, what's the, you know, time, time matters only in jail.

Whoever said that, right? I mean, it's it's, it's how you

fit Now you say that more with turf races obviously than you do

in dirt racing, but I. Thought he's he'll be fine.

If he's. In the front.

Mike Smith on the front, Mike. You gotta like Mike.

If Mike knows how to, how to run from the front, he, he knows the

clock. He's got that internal clock.

I remember one time it was, I think it was the Preakness, and

I asked him about a Derby race where I said, you know, you kind

of went out sort of fast in the Derby.

I don't remember the horse's name.

And and he just went, no, I didn't.

No, I know I was exactly as I wanted to be.

Speaking of guys who are good front running jocks, how about

Velasquez on Grande who comes in under the radar as well?

Todd Pletcher. Very quiet week.

He's been over at Keeneland mostly and here's Grande coming

in with about 3 races to his name and also.

Very good in the Wood Memorial. Right.

Oh, right. He was super like the whole way.

And so and then by the way, talking about horses who have

not did not win a Derby prep points race, OK, shame on me.

Maybe if you write the rule as strictly as I've offered it, but

there it is. That's interesting because

you've got you got Velasquez on there, but this isn't a horse

that you look at as being a burner out front, right?

So does that counteract? I mean, look, Velasquez can ride

anything anytime, but if there's anything he's best at, yeah,

it's right. It's front running.

That's right. Yeah.

I, I, I think that horse is, is, is in a great spot to hit the

board because I think he's going to want to be in the, the first

eight or nine horses the entire. Race and.

If he can. Make the he gets first run.

If he I'm with you, I'm with you and I, I think 20 to 1 is

actually the right number on him as well.

And is it time for Kerlin to win this thing again?

Good question. You know, talking about, you're

talking about Jackson. I was just looking down here and

the fact that Flavian is out here riding Bezos, I mean the

Bezos Faiza, Faiza in the workouts, in the morning

workouts, that that tells you something right there.

Well. But you know, So what?

OK, so let's say he draws in who writes neo equos, which may not

be like. So what does it matter?

Edgard Zion, is it right be up here.

I imagine Ziaz will get them out first happy, right?

They just there's so many together at Gulfstream.

I imagine, you know, he's worked a horse before or something.

So but yeah, who's who's been on him before?

Edgar wrote him in the in the Florida Derby, so I'd probably

go back to. That you know who else is

sitting there looking for a ride is Luis Saez.

I know since Tappan St. it is out.

It's amazing, frankly, who doesn't have them out and who

does? Yeah, it is a pretty remarkable

thing. All right, guys, I appreciate

it. We got to get to break, but

appreciate you jumping on I again, latimes.com/sports for

everything. With John out there.

What are you working on this week?

And you know what? Let's do this.

Let's go over the top of it. Bob's back.

Yes. I have found him to be very

comfortable here. Seems like he never left.

Is that sort of your impression of him as well?

Just your yeah. Completely, you know, here's

what I think is really interesting rather than Bob is

McCarthy, who can be a little standoffish, has been fantastic.

He has been loose. He's been he's he's been telling

jokes. I was, I was doing a story on on

his relationship, you know, with the owners, Eclipse and Aaron

Wellman and what? And I'm just standing there and

he walks out and and walks across and it says, do you need

me for anything? When?

When the heck? Does that happen?

It doesn't. He's a guy who's he's always

been cooperative, right? He's always been cordial.

I've always found him to be better interview on the phone

than in person, which sometimes can happen.

But I found this week it's like, gosh, I guess we're on the

phone. You know, I see he's been been

terrific. He's been very, very.

I've kind of. I like hearing that the

favorites trainer is is feeling. They are very chill in that.

How? Easy is Aaron Wallman is an

interview. Like, oh, it's great.

One question. Yeah, he's on the pod.

He'll be on the pod this Friday. Yeah.

Yeah. So John was stalking me, I

believe, when I did that. Yeah, yeah.

Well, Ron Flatter Racing pod, horseracingnation.com.

Thank you. Between the two of us, we we

drank what, 4 lbs of wine last night?

Was that what it was? We measured it Oz versus Troy

Wade or something, whatever. Closing A5.

Was a five, yeah. I'm bringing your Chardonnay

bottle this week. I have a 150 bottle for John.

That I totally. Forgot last year what a friend

and it's still in my house. How about that?

So we'll get that. To you.

You left it in the. You left it by the boiler all

winter. I don't think that's out of your

business. He's Johnnies.

Rod, this is revolt Go audios at 681057.

We were backside Churchill Downs on the other end.

Who's my? Oh, Brooks all.

We're going to talk basketball next.