Kentucky Derby Week 2025 | Eric Hamelback

Full year. We've made a tradition of this.

Now this is our fourth time. Eric.

How about that? Hanging out during Derby Week.

He's Eric Camelback. He is the president of the

National HBPAI. Answer or excuse me, I ask you

this question every year. What the heck is an HBPA?

Yeah, no, it's a great question. And obviously when you hear the

acronym Horseman's Benevolent Protective Association, you

really get a good flavor for what we are.

But just the national organization, so everyone is

aware we are trade association. I am run by my board, which is

made-up of the presidents of all of the HBPA affiliates

throughout the country. So we have 24 affiliates in the

US, we have 5 in Canada. And so yes, I have a board of 29

individuals, which can be fun at times, but I'm lucky enough to

get to represent them on all the national goings on as it were,

whether it be in DC or helping states through legislative

processes or getting a call from attorneys while we're on the

phone. So you know, the, the, the best

word in the acronym is benevolence.

When you look at the programs on a state affiliate level that are

done through the HBP, as that's where the core mission of

horsemen helping horsemen came from.

We are there to help protect those guys on the backside, do

programs from from, you know, Thanksgiving programs, Christmas

programs, but just camaraderie, making sure people on the

backside know that we're there for them.

And the protective word really is focused around what we do as

a representative to protect owners and trainers and their

interest, whether it be contractual, simulcasting

contracts, contracts with the race tracks.

We are there to be that that third stool leg in the

Interstate Horse Racing Act, which is racetrack ownership,

racetrack Commission or excuse me, state Commission and then

the legal horseman's representative group.

So that's where we stand. And by the way, KYHBP, a.com for

our local, our local affiliate here.

And of course, Alex Foley, the local president here in

Kentucky, a name that we know very well in Kentucky.

Of course, the Foley's. Look, man, this is, it's an

interesting time. You're based in Lexington, your

kid, your guy grew up in Northern Louisiana and all the

things and, and grew up in the in the tracks in, in Arkansas,

different places. I ask you every year and we

we've done this, you know, a lot of times with it.

Go ahead, I'll go. I literally just brought this

up. Our.

Our. I broke Eric.

Our, our regional central portion of the United States

and, and the expansion that's going on.

I, I literally just had this conversation and, and gave you

credit for kind of kind of bringing it out and, and really

talking about it. And so that that was just

literally a conversation I had. A couple people are wondering

what Eric is referencing. I came to him and I said in a

different conversation that we had horse racing's kind of

following the general path of other, other sports that are

happening in our country right now.

When I was a kid, the Rose Bowl was a big deal and the PAC 10

was a big deal. There ain't even a PAC 10

anymore, right? And so people are moving away

from that West Coast thing into the middle of the country.

We're seeing, you know, a pretty big migration from people from

Northern California to places like Boise, ID or to, you know,

Austin, TX, Nashville, TN, etcetera.

And we're seeing horse racing kind of do the same thing where

it's kind of concentrating east of the Rockies again.

But we're seeing expansion of places that you've talked about,

Iowa, Nebraska, different things that are happening.

Nebraska. And one of the things that you

bring up that I love doing every year conversation with you is

the agrarian base of horse racing.

And we are seeing this no bigger place than in Florida right now.

Absolutely, absolutely. When we look at the issues in

decoupling, I know that the first press release since my

date is correct came out on January 5th.

Now, that announcement from Gulfstream Park that they were

going to decouple had really been in the works longer than

that, but it was very shocking to most of us.

And it was even more shocking that the the the Horsemen's

representative group at least was said to be supportive of.

Fast forward to now, we know that wasn't technically true,

but at the end of the day, my hair really raised on the back

of my neck because decoupling is not just a statewide fear.

When you look at the precedence as being set by we call them

racinos, but the partnership, but with gaming organizations

that is not just in Florida. So we, we really can't allow

that from a national president to occur.

But again, we're looking at these Agra based states, these

Agra based businesses that I like to really point to,

especially when we're dealing in politician speak in DC, it's a

business. Every trainer on the backside is

an employer and they are an Agri business and and 99% of the time

they're a small business because that's technically anything

under 50 employees. So you know, we have to protect

that and the fight in the cup in the decoupling words, that's not

just a separation from those at the racetrack.

You are separating Agri businesses all across the state

and it could be growing crops for hay, it could be growing

wheat and oats for feed. It can be the farriers.

It's certainly tied to the veterinarians.

But most importantly, in that state right now, you're looking

at the breeding industry. You know, those farms,

especially in Ocala, aren't going to be there breeding

mares. And so when when I kind of

jumped in very quickly to raise the flag to everybody, this

could be a South Louisiana issue, no question.

This could easily be, you know. We just had, we just had Rachel

McLaughlin on from Horseshoe Indianapolis.

Yeah, their program is incredible.

And we would, it would be, it would legitimately be an

unbelievable shame if that went away because what Indiana is

building right now is incredible.

It is. And and I, and I actually

mentioned Rachel and Eric when I was told that, you know, Missus

Tronic Belinda said that there was no casino based organization

that would want to join up with the racetrack.

That's why she wanted to decouple.

And I literally pointed towards what Eric has done in Indiana

and you know, the promotion that Rachel herself gives that is,

and Joe Morris happens to be a friend of mine from way back in

the NTRA days. That just wasn't a true

statement. So, you know, it was more than

that. But but that partnership is one

that we point to and you look. At the Partnership Prairie.

Meadows, Oak Lawn, you know, I mean, they've expanded through

themselves, but you know, there's, there's plenty of

partners. And, and I'm glad you brought it

up because one thing that seems to be getting lost and I tried

to convey to the Senate in Florida is that most states, and

I remember when I was at Adina and Frank started buying race

tracks, most states. And that means outside of Nevada

and outside of New Jersey, there was no gaming.

There was no brick and mortar gaming until they partnered with

race tracks. When I was growing up in

Louisiana. The first partnership was you

can have a riverboat, you know, and so they'd bring the boat,

push it out in the middle of the Red River, bring it back.

That was the beginning of the partnership.

So the point is there would be no casinos, correct brick and

mortar, if it weren't for the development of paramutual

wagering, what we'd established in a regulatory fashion to then

allow casinos to come in. So they owe us.

It's not a, it's not a subsidy, it's a tariff.

We knew that we were getting into that competitive and

cannibalistic area on wagering. So we negotiated a contract.

We as horsemen developed this partnership allow you to grow

Mr. Miss Casino World and we'll grow with you.

And now you have casinos like the one with Miss Belinda

Stronic. And I have a trouble saying

Missus Tronic because I work for the family so long.

There's only one Missus Tronic. But you know that partnership

can't be broken just because quote UN quote, you want to

break it. Eric Campbell back with us.

He's the president of the national HBPA here on Rabona Co

on ESPN 6 Stadium, one O 5 seven with with Governor DeSantis

showing up at the Obs sale. Those of us on the outside.

And look, I'm not working on this issue as as intimately as

certainly as you are, Eric, but is in Kentucky that would not

matter because of the way that the legislation route is is set

up where the veto can be overridden 50 + 1.

Does that matter in Florida? It does matter in Florida what

what you see and, and I I'll have to quote my good buddy

Damon Thayer. When you look at the legislative

makeup in Florida, everybody said, Oh well, gosh, you know,

must not have been hard in Kentucky protecting HHR and that

couldn't have been further from the truth.

But it is very important. And at least we did have that

percentage that was in our favor, our favor being horse

racing. But it it takes time to develop

those relationships. And when I have now been in

front of the group in Florida, it's obvious that horse racing

needs to do a better job at connecting with the legislative

body, their General Assembly, because you know when we had.

In other words, the lobbying efforts.

The lobbying efforts need to be ramped up and and we tried to

talk about that quite a bit on the national level to our

states, even to the point of putting together panel

discussions. We and and another good friend

of mine, Matt Cook, who happens to be my state representative

for Bourbon County, he said don't come to, in his case,

Frankfurt with your hairs on fire.

Try to establish those relationships when you don't

quote UN quote need us. And that's what Florida may have

lapsed a little bit on. But I do believe the Florida

thoroughbred breeders and owners have done a good job at at

keeping relationships at least stable.

But now everything's a bit shaky, Yes, but the governor

being at Obs, that was a huge statement.

And obviously with the help of the Tri Group and this

particularly David O'farrell organizing, organizing that and

allowing that presentation of support that that went a long

way for the horsemen in Florida. Now when you say, you know

bringing, you mentioned earlier about creating that relationship

with our legislators, are you talking about horsemen, trainers

and horsemen themselves? Do you have any particular

individuals in mind? And further than that, once you

take it you've now that this is happening in Florida, you've got

to just start thinking about implementing that on a national

basis. Absolutely.

State by state. Absolutely.

Because when we, let's say an example of doing a panel at one

of our conferences, you know, we talk about how do you build up

that, you know, and I don't even like the word lobbying.

It's basically building relationships and inviting those

members to the races or farms or the farm growing, hey, inviting

them to understand the network that goes on in racing and the

economic driver that it is. That's extremely important.

So yes, we try to quote UN quote teach that or at least recommend

that, especially to our affiliates.

I mean, we've talked to now, even in California, we're,

we're, we're reaching out saying guys, we need to get a little

bit more friends on, on in the General Assembly Exactly.

So that, that communication, you know, we love to bring them to

the track because that's when they get to touch to feel the

smell. But if you can't, you've got to

be in your state capital to some extent.

Well, and even you can still bring.

You're not even bikes. You can always take everything

by an extension, correct? Even if you go to the Capitol

and you can get not even, you know, even their stat, you know,

just their staff. Team.

Absolutely. Yeah, no, that's, you know,

district office staff, that's who you can get, that's their

job, their. Job is to be able to go out to

the racetrack and do things like that.

So they can bring it back to their boss.

They've got a lot of stuff on their plate.

And I think if you'll, if you'll excuse me, I did some lobbying

myself in DC earlier in September.

And I think it's just in out there for the listeners out

there, for whomever, whichever horsemen are listening in right

now, just understand that it's not they don't be afraid to get

out of your comfort zone and make that contact because that

is 100% their job to come out to us and see what's going on.

Absolutely, absolutely it is. And I spend a lot of time in DCA

lot of, you know, reaching out, talking to staff, educating them

on horse racing, guest worker, immigration programs, that

economic driver that is horse racing.

Because, you know, we kind of jokingly say politicians only

care about money and jobs. And we have those and we have

those. And so making sure that message

gets out there is extremely important.

Owners and betters. Owners and betters take care of

the. Owners and betters.

He's Eric Campbell back. He's the president of the

National HPA. Got time to sit through a break.

Yes, Sir, all. Right, we'll come back with Eric

again. We're presented this week by our

friends at Horseshoe Indiana Polis Racing today, tomorrow,

and on Saturday. Go check them out for sure.

And our friends at the Kentucky HBPAKYHBP a.com again, head over

to 1st bet1stbet.com. They'll be hanging out with us

tonight at the seminar as well. You can get a $250 bonus just

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If you go, Sign up today at First Bet and 1st bet.com.

We'll come back with Eric and we'll back.

We do it next. I feel like 20 minutes goes by

with you and I don't even know where I am by the way, we

haven't gotten to this yet, but I'm going to do this in front of

God and all these witnesses. That is a spectacular dad shirt

and I just I I'm very jealous of how how dad you look right now

as a father for myself, just how Manny looks great.

I'm so jealous. Oh my God, it's so man.

I look like every invested D bag back here.

All right, so. You're giving East Coast a

little bit by today, yeah. I don't like that at all.

All right, that's for two weeks. Somebody had to tell you.

We stripped out Kelly Franz Lawler, if I get out with you

so. I think I'll say thank.

You there you go. Move that mic a little bit

closer to your your mouth there, Eric.

No, you're fine. And you know, we had Lieutenant

Governor Jacqueline on yesterday and we see her out here every

year. We see the governor out here

every year. And so just a, just a bow on the

the last conversation of we are fortunate in this, hey, that at

least at the current time that there are people, you know,

especially on their, you know, they're on that, that blue side

of things in Kentucky. That is the minority party here.

But certainly we get a lot of Dem governors around this place.

But you know, it's really a three party state in Kentucky as

far as I'm concerned. You get you have the Democratic

block, you have the urban Republicans and then you have

the country Republicans. And when you talk about HHR,

you're frankly, those first two voting blocks are working

together on it. And then you have that third

one. That's the Family Foundation

folks and whatever else. And so these are complicated

state to state even. Well, absolutely, because if you

look at the, the driving force in Florida right now on

decoupling, it's it's, it's the Republican base.

And it seems odd, you know, I know again, former Senator Damon

Thayer, who's working with the Tri Thoroughbred Racing

Initiative, and, you know, he's kind of smiled and said, I've

never had to work against a Republican, But it is, it's very

important here. Obviously, we're very

appreciative to have someone like Governor Beshear, who

obviously appreciates horse racing.

I know, you know, his parents obviously did, his brother's a

veterinarian. I mean, he he just has an

understanding. So I'm, I've always been pretty

open and saying I'm does, I'm not red or blue.

I just vote horse racing. So it's it's important And and

no. But he really does.

Yeah, he don't really. Care.

That's right. Yeah, he really does.

And it's important to go back and you've got to express that

to your General Assembly. You mentioned you, you use the

word tariff, talking about racitos and those sorts of

things. Another issue, of course, as

we're 100 years into a new presidency is talk about

immigration and you know, guest worker immigration and that kind

of stuff. And, you know, we have a, you

know, Eric, you and I also talk about every year when we come

back here, there's such a, a cool moment, especially, boy,

probably the Saturday, the, the full week before the Derby.

You walk in for those, those last big workouts and you get

inside the walled city that is Churchill Downs.

And all the people that work here and get their livelihoods

here. And so many people in our

industry that frankly gave up a life very far from here to work

with horses and people that, you know, are the backbone of what

we get to enjoy on the track. What's going on with those kinds

of programs is is, and I'm sure horse racing has to be keenly,

keenly tuned. Into this absolutely when you

look at and and I have to go right back to the Agri business

discussion. When you look at the positions

that are on the backside of a racetrack or at a training

center or at a breeding farm, they're very agrarian based

positions. And what has happened in the

United States, that separation of degree of separation from

agriculture, I always talk about you just don't have that

American workforce as much as you used to me growing up on a

cattle farm with horses, racetrack, you just don't see

that as much anymore. And you don't even see kids in

rural counties that have grandparents that own a farm.

So we need that workforce and there's a workforce out there

that's outside of the United States.

And we need to make sure as an industry we continue to have a

pathway for them to get here legally and have that workforce

because they're appreciative of of working on this base, working

on the the Agri business that is horse racing.

Not that we don't have them from kids in the United States.

It's just not enough when you look at those who progress.

And one thing I've learned working with the H2B Coalition

in DC is that, and I'm stealing their stats, I hope I don't get

it wrong, but 4.2 American jobs are supported BY1H2B worker.

And so we have this little PDF pamphlet that we're always

passing out. And then in the center it has a

racehorse. And actually we have a standard

bred as well. And it's just a, it's a, it's a

flow chart of all of the positions that will stem out

from a racehorse, whether it's standard bred, thoroughbred or

quarter horse. So it's important to keep that

labor force together. And so working with H2B

Coalition and now even coming up this week with the American

Business Administration Immigration Coalition, you know,

they had to fly in a few weeks back.

President Dale Romans from Kentucky, HBPA was there meeting

with legislators, getting them to understand the importance of

not only the H2B visa in particular, but that pathway to

a green card. You know, that's the key.

You know, the H2B coalition has fought for years and I fought

really since 2717 for that returning worker exemption,

making sure that we could we could secure that, that

continuity of a workforce for at least three years before they

had to go back to their home country to reinstate.

We're still working to get that. I've worked with Representative

Tony Gonzalez in Texas. Right before COVID hit, I was

working with Senator Rand Paul's staff.

We created an H2C visa that unfortunately got tabled during

COVID. But we are now also looking at

more ways to get an H2A visa on the backside of a racetrack

because again, being tied to Interstate commerce, we don't we

on the backside of the racetrack don't have the sometimes benefit

of being an H2A. So that can be problematic.

But you know, all of that is to say it's something that we have

got to continue to work for. And the current president

actually made some positive comments and recently coming out

of this fly fly in that he was there to protect farm workers is

what he called. And we worked very hard.

And I say we, I've got to include Will Vilay, Oscar

Gonzalez in working with Senator Graham several years back in

getting equine laborer defined in the Immigration and

Nationality Act. That was very important.

And getting that verbiage in there has really helped us kind

of move forward even in getting H2A possibilities.

So it's a, it's an Ave. that we've got to focus on because at

the end of the day, as you said, Louis, we just don't have the

numbers that we need because again, one racehorse generates a

tremendous number of jobs. And so we need to keep that

workforce stable. Like your favorite sports team,

do you? It is do you really care let you

know you're an LSU guy? Do you care really if the

quarterbacks from the state of Louisiana or do you just want

Joe Burrow? I just.

Want you just want Joe Burrow. So frankly, I don't care where

anybody comes from in this industry.

Just give me the people that care about the horses of all.

I mean, that's really what really matters here.

That's right. Hey, claiming crown was here in

November. You should have been here,

Kelly. This guy was a star.

Oh my God, he was glistening in the paddock, people coming up.

He had they had to kiss the ring.

I didn't know you had a special ring for climbing crowd.

That's a whole different conversation.

But look, how did, how do you think it went here?

You're coming back to Churchill for the event itself.

How how did it go here? I, I got to tell you, weather

wise and everything else, it was spectacular day.

And frankly, racing wise, was a great day too.

Honestly, it, it, while it wasn't the record handle, like

everything during COVID, we had the record handle during COVID,

but it was an absolutely amazing event and, and the weather

really did cooperate and it, yeah, never hurts being able to

be on the turf really helps. But, you know, just the way that

Churchill management and, and I really, I really want to shout

out to Mike Ziegler. He, he's really been supportive

of this event. And Gary Palmisano, I think, you

know, we, we even tried it and because he and I both from

Louisiana, we tried it in New Orleans.

It just didn't work. But, but both of those two in

particular, but all of the management, they've really been

supportive of this event and that helps, you know, you always

go back to the representative group and racetrack get

together. It's magic.

So having them really embrace this and having the Kentucky

HVPA support and putting the purse money up, it's really it's

really brought a bright spot back to the claiming crown.

And I think having it back here this year, November 15th, we're

coming right back and we're going to be back in 2026 right

here and we've got some new things planned.

We we're we're going to have a handicapping tournament.

KK has been, you know, super, super involved in trying to get

Twinspires event. We're going to have ANHC

qualifier working with the NTRA, so for a qualifier for 26.

So that's going to be a lot of fun.

We are actually bringing in and I'll save this for Ben Huffman,

but we're going to bring in a graded stake into the card.

So it's not a claiming crown race, but in the card itself,

probably before the last two big claiming crown races, we're

going to bring in a great at stake again just to draw in the

horse player view and try to get them kind of in there.

But then I'm also extremely happy and appreciative of the

Virginia HBPA. We are going to do a full card

of qualifying races on August 21st.

It's a Thursday, but really kind of again, trying to focus on the

horse player importance of of what we need to do.

But the Virginia HVPA voted to have a purse structure that'll

be very beneficial for the horsemen.

The first two that crossed the wire will go on to and have an

automatic qualifying gate bid to come to the claiming crown in

November. So super excited about that.

Very thankful to, again, the Churchill team who owned

Colonial Downs now along with their team at Colonial.

Dan Bork, you know, kind of laughed.

We talked about qualifying races like we used to do at Kentucky

Downs. And Dan said, well, why don't we

just do the whole card? And so everybody kind of smiled

and said, yeah, why not? So.

So yeah. It's just another angle of

another thing that that's great about Virginia, not only with

the, you know, certification program and the breeding

program, but now they're being claiming it.

That's covering, it's covering everybody.

What a great concept. Yeah, no, it's great.

And you know, years ago, and I have to give Sal Sinatra a lot

of credit on this one, but when we were at Gulfstream for so

many years, he was very instrumental in doing some of

the qualifying races, even having some on Black Eyed Susan

day one year. So, you know, we did it, it

worked back then. And so I think bringing it back

now and, and like Dan said, just doing a whole cart, you know,

let's let's let's qualify every race.

I'm going to be a jerk. Hey, Tim Gleich, I'll get it

done. I need some of these races in

Indiana. Get it done.

He's not here, but I just get it done.

Timmy Gleich. Let's go both.

Of us looked. Over our shoulders.

I was like. Terrified to death that Tim was

running. At US.

What are you doing here? I, I love this general trend in

horse racing of the qualifying races.

I love it. I, I do the Ellis Park day, the

the Kentucky down preview as you mentioned.

And, and just I, I, I the look ahead thing in horse racing.

I love it. I, you know, they just had the

Tessio in, in, in Maryland, that kind of stuff.

It's almost like just setting the stage and and creating a

little bit more buzz. It's a buzz.

Yeah. I mean, it really is about the

experience. And that's what makes it great

here at Churchill. And with the management so

bought in, you know, all the winners got to go up to the

directors room, you know, and that's something, you know, it's

just huge, you know, and Mike Anderson was so awesome up

there. And you know, again, Mike

Ziegler, they're just, they just, they showed appreciation

for what these guys, and I'm going to say the majority of

trainers in the industry who are working so hard and claiming

horses and getting them to improve, that appreciation was

very palpable. It was great.

Penny breakage in Kentucky. We'll see Friday, Saturday,

about $1,000,000 return to betters.

I've heard good things happen in New York.

Could be, yeah. Could be.

Moving along, trying. Moving along, how about that?

Yeah, yeah. If people are due to Erics

appearances with me, protect the better.

Protect the owner and things will generally sort themselves

out is how you feel. I know.

It is, and I I still remember to this day and I actually just got

goosebumps thinking about it. John Neyroud told me years ago I

was still general manager to Deena Springs.

They said the two most important people in horse racing are the

owner and the horse player. Don't ever forget that.

Do what's best for the horse and you'll never go wrong there.

You go, he's there, Camelback. I need to have that tattooed

somewhere. I bring it up enough.

I think the what up Derby pick you got one.

I'll be very honest, I really like Publisher.

I know it's not the most, maybe not the most sexy pic, but

watching the Arkansas Derby and and kind of analyzing it as a

fan, that horse did, you know, didn't break good, right?

And but man, when he came flying, not to take anything

away from the winner and, and maybe if the winner wasn't

zigzagging down the lane, he might have won by more, But the

way that horse finished and the way that horse galloped out was

Uber impressive. And I also think the world of

Bill Mott's horse. I think the world of Bill Mott,

but he he to me, this horse could be a real Derby horse for

him. I know he's got the one Derby

via DQ, but any of that horse looks amazing.

And then no question, I'm going to root for the Louisiana

Connection and Cold Battle that another horse that didn't have

the best of trips in the Arkansas Derby.

But you know, I know everybody's going to point towards Mike

McCarthy's horse and, and he is, he's just the real deal and, and

if he gets the trip, it would be hard to beat.

But you know, there's twenty horses in this field and a lot

can go in. And we've always said it, not

always the best horse wins, but to win this race means

everything. But those are kind of my 3

handicapping picks. Well, there you go, back to

Lexington soon, I'm sure. But Eric, we always appreciate

you popping by the show again. KY hppa.com for our local HPP

here in Kentucky. Articles, notes from around the

state, all the great people and great horses that make the

industry go in Kentucky. Eric, be well, my friend.

Thank you. I'm sure I'll see you the rest

of the week and. Thank you.

Got to get down to colonial now I got to go to a little.

Prep day, man, it's on a Thursday, we can go.

Together. Oh, that's we'll bother you.

One last break. We'll wrap up the show next.