BloodHorse Monday 8/4/25

All right, welcome in horses and talking on Blood Horse Monday.

His name's Sean Collins. I'm blue your bow.

So glad you decided to start your August with us and

certainly your horse racing week there as well.

Boy, a busy weekend. This never slows down Sean.

One of the best things I love about what we get to do, right,

because if you want to cover a horse race, I got good news for

you. Except for like 2 days a year we

got a horse race in the country. It's just always busy.

People always ask me when my non busy time is and I tell them I'm

busy all the time. It's just Derby's extra busy,

you know, essentially that ends up feeling.

But yeah. Good morning Sean.

How are you buddy? You doing all right?

I'm doing great and this week was extra busy for me out here

at Saratoga. All those grade ones that we had

on Saturday, I think we had four grade ones plus a number of

other graded stakes throughout the weekend.

So it was not, not for me. I was running around like a

crazy person the entire week. But for me, it's fun.

But. Yeah, for sure, a bunch of great

content from Sean. We'll talk out with Barry Irwin

in a minute here from, excuse me, from the Swift Delivery

team, just one up there at Woodbine as well.

And of course from Team Valor. We'll get into your visit to

meet Smarty Jones with Pat Chapman, one of the owners of

Smarty Jones in Pennsylvania as well.

And cool, cool set of videos. Really appreciate you sharing

that with everybody, Sean on the interwebs, if you will.

But that weekend at Saratoga and you know what's funny?

I thought I would get pushed back on this.

Every person I told that I enjoy Whitney Day more than traverse

day. I expected to get this big push

back. Nothing.

I I love the four-star Dave. I think it gives us a star every

year. I think deterministic is exactly

that. I love when the Whitney is

going, when that division is going.

We talked about it a lot on this show, but when that handicap

division, whatever you want to call it, the older dirt male

division is really rolling, this sport's better.

It's just more fun. It's more interesting.

It gives us something to talk about after after the Triple

Crown. And so it's been nice to see

these kinds of races. It's also fun and I'm not mad at

anyone that's doing this. Oh, he had a rabbit.

Oh, they did good, good, good. We're entering horses.

Yes. It's making for great races.

So yes, this is all spectacular stuff.

You were there. What's your take away from

Whitney Did? Oh, it was a fantastic weekend.

Like you said, Deterministic's really kind of turning into one

of these top turf forces, so it's exciting to kind of see his

growth here. Seeing Miguel Clemont have the

success at this time, too, I think is a phenomenal thing.

Killwood really impressed me in the test.

This is a different man the. Fact that she went down pretty

much to her nose at the break and she still came back and won

that race. She's going on to Kentucky Downs

and it's going to be dirt and turf for her.

She can win on anything, so she's really exciting moving

forward. But the Whitney definitely took

the spotlight of the week weekend.

Such a great run from Sierra Leone fierceness is going to

once again have us questioning exactly what he is.

What's your take away on his performance?

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, Ripoli goes on right

before the race and says, you know, it's just not, there's so

few places for us to run older horses.

And all I could think was this is a problem for like 4 horses.

There are like four horses for whom this is an issue and three

of them were in New York this weekend.

And so I. And the other one was in New

York, just in the barn. Right, Just in the barn.

That's exactly right. The interesting thing about

fierceness here is did that not remind you of Cogburn in the the

Turf Sprint in the Breeders Cup a couple years ago where he just

stopped like he was rolling? He's out in the lead.

He just stops and and once in a while it's usually on the Philly

and mare side. Sean, the one I remember over

and over, Breeders' Cup Distaff at Churchill, Abel Tasman just

stopped running and her career was done.

And and, you know, after the race, we, you know, we all

talked about Baffert. He's like, yeah, she might not

want to run anymore. She never did again.

And I'm not suggesting fierceness is doing anything

like that. But once in a while horses just

tell you I didn't want to keep going.

And so I don't know if it was a competition thing or he got

tired or whatever, but I I didn't love the look of how that

race ended for fierceness. I'll be very honest, I didn't

like. I don't know if I'm ready to be

at that point yet with him. I mean, we've seen in the past,

I think we just, we've seen enough consecutive solid

performances from him, but we know he throws in a clunker

every once in a while. And I think maybe, you know,

yes, he got the perfect trip. But you know, with the pace set

up the way it was where he kind of had to make he, you have to

make that judgement call of whether or not to move.

And then when Skippy Longstocking kind of made that

early move, it kind of forced him.

He's shown before he's a horse that just likes to do it his own

way and sometimes when you take him out of his game, he just

doesn't run as well. So I'm thinking maybe that's

maybe that's what happened here and and we'll see what happens

when he bounces back. But I I don't know what you

would do with him next. He's obviously not going to be

in the Jockey Club Gold Cup with mine frame.

So I don't know if you train him up to the Breeders Cup classic,

you wait for that if you end up in the Woodward, if you go

looking elsewhere for him. But you know, I give him a pass

on the Met mile because I don't think a mile was his distance.

I've mentioned that on here before and I I'm not ready to

give up on him after this race. I could see reasons as to why he

lost based off of what he's done in the past, and I think with

the right set up I think he's going to be good to go once

again. Yeah, I agree.

I I think that the talent's obvious.

You saw him run well for most of that race.

It just in the stretch, it just didn't work out.

But I, I do wonder with him, Sean, you know, long term,

there's no step back race for him to get his confidence back,

right. So he can't step into a high

level allowance or a listed stakes or something like this at

this point. End up at the Lucas Classic at

Churchill, maybe? Who knows, that might be the

best step back he. Had might be the best thing he

can do. We know he loves Churchill

Downs, all the things, right? I mean, so it it may be that

that's where he ends up. But at this point I start to

wonder about the mental state of the horse as far as does he does

he want to be in these races now?

I think he showed early on that he does.

I I think he did. I think he showed early on that

he does. But if you're in the, if you're

in the Sierra Leone camp, I, I think you are extremely,

extremely positive moving forward about what you have in.

There were. Other people in this group, oh.

I'm sure that's true to our good friend Brooke Smith.

Was he shirtless in the canoe by chance?

Was. He he was not shirtless canoe,

believe it or not. Shame on you bro.

Get it done. Yeah, get it done.

That's when he wins the Whitney and the Jockey Club Gold Cup at

the same meet. He'll do that at the end of the

meet, but I saw him in the next quarter.

He was very excited. I actually happened to be in

front of him right when he won the race too.

So that was a very happy box that Brooke Smith was in when

Sierra Leone got the job done. Oh, good.

Yeah, no, he's an interesting one.

I know he's trip to Pennant. Sean, I don't care.

I don't care. What is he one of seven horses

to win the Whitney and the Brews Cup Classic.

If you get out of here, who cares?

It's great you're. Dependent to win sometimes, but

he's not trip dependent to run. He's the one.

He's the 1 deep closer that you can no matter what the race

scenario. You're right about he's gonna

hit the top run. You're right.

It's just a matter of whether or not he wins.

But he's never been off the board before.

And we saw him in the Stephen Foster kind of show, something

new of making multiple moves and he was sitting closer and he

still came with his kick at the end.

Maybe it was just a race too short at that point to beat Mind

Frame, but but he's the one horse that you can always you

can always count. And I saw somebody on Twitter

the other day mention just imagine the Breeders Cup

sovereignty and Sierra Leone are both making their run at the end

of the race and they're both firing.

Who do you have winning that winning that match up?

What do you say? Just going to ask you who your

top three is for the Breeders Cup Classic right now and you

could throw the three-year olds in.

I know who your number one is and it's sovereignty.

I understand that. And you know who my number 2 is?

Your number 2 is journalism. That is what we're doing with

Small Collins this year. I'm still leaning much, much

more in the mind frame camp at this point.

And that is a yeah, right at this point.

That's a a trend setting. Churchill Downs in the spring

that he wins the Grade 1, then he gets back to Churchill Downs

itself, wins the Stephen Foster against Sierra Leone, who goes

ahead and beats everybody up at Saratoga.

So I'm not moving mind frame out of that spot just yet.

I do think I would have, I would go mine frame Sierra Leone and

then I would go sovereignty there.

That's why I would have top three British step class right

now. And by the way, I, if any of

them won would not surprise me for a second.

Yeah. At all.

We're just we're so blessed to have a great classic group this

year. 3 year old and the older horse side.

For sure. Out West, we saw an interesting

new addition to the distaff field in Seismic Beauty, winning

the Clement El Hirsch at Del Mar breaking from the inside.

They just went with this one, Sean.

I saw a lot of comments about how they were holding Rishi back

and, and I I love this sort of stuff where people just think

that Bob Baffert's going to ask one of their owners to run a

horse for the first time in three months.

And by the way, we're going to make it run third like that.

That's the plan. Like that he can go to an owner

and look them in the face and say we're going to run third

today. OK, just so you understand,

because Seismic Beauty needs a Grade 1 and you don't get out of

here. This kind of stuff drives me

crazy. I got to say this though, Sean,

I'm a little tired of the, oh, they make their own trip in the

same way that I'm a little tired of it about Sierra Leone.

If she can get the lead and be faster than the rest of the

horses, that's what Torpedo Anna did last year.

It's a really good tact. If you can do it, ask Authentic

how that works out. It's fantastic.

I don't know why people are so against this, why they think

it's such a bad tactic when this is how Baffert trains and when

he's got a horse this fast who's already won at Del Mar, why can

she not be included in that distaff?

I think she's top three right now, no question.

And the Distaff's going to be at Delmar, correct?

So you know, that's going to be, that's going to be a huge thing.

And her benefit as well. She's a major player in this

division. Yeah, I think those stay at home

dirt horses especially, right. They seem to be ones that that

that really do thrive. Obviously last year top three in

the Breeders Cup Classic were three-year olds, potentially the

top 2 returning to that kind of mantle as well.

But let's get Barry Irwin in here.

He is from the Swift Delivery team and of course from Team

Valor as well. Barry, happy Monday to you.

Welcome to the Blind Horse Monday.

How are you? Good.

Thank you very much. Yeah, no problem at all.

See that is that is facial hair. Sean, do you understand me?

You'll never have, you will never have a mustache.

That fine. How about that?

But yes, we're here, of course. Hey, over the weekend, nice

little win for swift delivery. Of course, this is a horse that

you know, back-to-back really nice performances, both of them

at Woodbine. You have to.

I'm sure you weren't totally shocked by the performance, but

you had to be happy. Yeah, we, we thought this was

going to be his day. No doubt about it.

He's he's a talented horse. He's got a great stride, but

he's quirky. And it's taken on about a year

to get him to this spot. But finally, he arrived.

And it was a monumental win for you guys at Team Valor as well,

your 200th graded stakes victory.

Just what does that mean to your organization?

I think it makes people proud to be part of the organization.

We have a small, a small company.

Really it's just it's me, my wife, my assistant Emily, and

basically 2 accountants. So we work hard.

I mean, when I get up every morning at 5:30, I'm on the

phone to Europe and I don't put the phone down till about 5:30

at night. So we work hard and when you win

a race like this and it beefs up the Staffs is is makes us all

feel pretty good and I think it makes the partners feel good as

well. Gets the win up at Woodbine.

Obviously Mark, Cassie, a big a big, big name up there.

Patrick, Husband's in the irons as well, but 200, like Sean

mentioned, gets you over those. It's a number that is a little

difficult you could wrap our heads around as far as graded

with, but that team up at Woodbine, what is it that goes

into your selection process? 200's, no accident.

What goes into the process of selecting, say, a trainer or

jock, Those sorts of things? I've used Mark for I can't

remember how many years, probably 30 years.

His dad was a friend of mine's dad was a real character, one of

the last of the truly great race track characters.

And I've known Mark since he was a kid.

I think Mark was the youngest guy to ever buy a mare A-Team.

He was just a kid, you know, and he's a sharp guy, as there is.

And this particular horse was owned 100% by Gary Barber.

We own a lot of horses with Gary and Gary and I have won a lot of

those 200 crated races. And one of my clients and his

son, a guy named Bruce Zolden and his son Alex, they own a

thing called Phantom Fireworks. They're the largest retailers of

fireworks in America. And Alex is very close with

Travis. And we kept trying to find a

Derby horse. Last year, we couldn't find one.

And then when this horse popped up and I saw that name, Swift

Delivery, I mean, it was like a no brainer.

So I called Alex, we worked a deal out, we got Travis in and

that's how it happened. And I haven't been able to speak

with him or his manager since the race, but I know Travis

watched it, was very excited and this is his first stakes win and

Graves Stakes win, so we're all happy for him.

What is it like having a big name like Travis Kelsey on your

team? How much does that, how much,

how much of the other partners really kind of revolve around

that and celebrate that? I, I don't know the answer to

that. I know for us it hasn't been any

sort of financial windfall. We, we don't have people calling

up saying, hey, I want to buy a horse.

Can I buy one with Travis? And I mean, it's mostly most of

the interaction we've had has been from the international

media. You know, we got anything with

Taylor Swift is like off the charts.

I mean, that's a name that you you can't really get your head

around. In terms of her popularity.

It's worldwide. She's magic and Travis is part

of that. Probably going to be a bigger

part as the years go on. As far as our partners, I think

they kind of get a kick out of it, but I think we get a bigger

charge of it than they do. Eric Irwin's with us, part owner

of Swift Delivery and of course from the team at Team Valor,

200th grade at stakes with over the weekend up there at

Woodbine. You guys were in on the

ownership of of Animal Kingdom and I think one of the great

stories in Kentucky Derby history.

Would you say you don't? You're looking for a Derby

horseman? You've been there before.

Yeah, we we've been in the Derby a few times.

We got beat ahead with Captain Budget 1997.

Animal Kingdom was big because we bred him, so that was cool.

But you know, we knew him from day one.

And I, originally, I'm from California, I lived there the

1st 60 years of my life and I moved to Kentucky because I

wanted to win the Derby and I thought if I was there and had a

larger presence and focus more on it would help.

And as luck would have it, we wound up breeding a horse that,

yeah, stuff like that just not supposed to happen.

And it did. What's your favorite memory when

you think back on Animal Kingdom?

What's his Derby? Also, he won the Dubai World

Cup. What's your favorite memory,

kind of thinking back on that time?

The Derby will always trump any race we will ever be in.

It was, I was standing right next to my wife and I'm looking

at him and I see him making his move and I'm going, is that

really him? Is that is this move for real?

You know, and she starts screaming.

So I I then I knew it was him and we were live.

It's just, you know, when you're in this sport and you're

following up, I've been following the Derby since I've

been five years old, you know, used to enter all the tobacco

naming contest. So kind of stuff.

So you just, it overwhelms you and the emotion takes over and

it's like you're on autopilot. You're not thinking, you're just

moving, you know? And it was, it was just surreal.

Everybody that wins it says the same thing.

It's surreal. And I I get it.

You also were part of the ownership of Oleksandra, who was

in full and goes ahead and beats the boys in a in a little turf

Sprint. What goes into that process of

deciding someone? I mean, what a what a what a

what a mayor she was, huh? Yeah, Yeah, we have a, we

actually have a flight line wingling Philly out of her

that's going to be offered in November at Keeneland.

But we, we ran a Philly once called Santa Catalina and the

humanities staff, and we got nailed on the wire by a Will

Farish horse. And after the race he announced

that she was in fault. And I said to myself that I says

I've got to do this in the future.

You know, I talked to him and he says that if you have a high

strong merit, it will settle them down.

You know, And so we we've tried it probably 10 times.

She's the only one that ever worked on.

You know, it was a phenomenal mayor.

She beat Raging Bull going a mile and 132 flat.

She beat boys in the Jaipur one O 6 and four.

I mean, she was something we still own her, by the way.

Awesome. Yeah, she was incredible, Yeah.

Well, Speaking of incredible Phillies or mayors, you're

bringing over a Philly to the United States here to run

against some of the top three, three-year old Phillies of the

country in the Alabama Stakes and Queen Azteca coming over

from running in the Swedish Derby.

She won the UAE Oaks a couple months ago.

Just tell us about her and bringing her on over for this

challenge. Yeah, I've often used the

Swedish Derby as a prep for the Alabama.

I find out it works well if. We go one for one.

That's going to be a pretty, pretty good success rate for

that. Yeah.

So last over the winter, a guy offered me her and I, I checked

into where I looked at her. I like the way she looked.

I like the fact that she was bred by three chimneys.

So she was a Kentucky bred. And I thought that she, you

know, she looked good when she won the Cocoa Beach by 8:00.

And then she got up on the wire and won the Grade 3 UAE Oaks.

So I thought that would be a cool feeling to bring over and

run the Kentucky Oaks. You know, my LNA, she's already

gone 9 1/2 furlongs. You know, if you can get the

trip. But they were too high on the

price so I just forgot it. She then ran in the UAE Derby

and basically got her her doors blown off.

She finished fifth, got beat 8 so she went home.

I never heard another word until a few weeks ago and I got a call

from the agent sent me a video showing her winning a prep for

the Swedish Derby. He says that my owners feed her

back on the planet Earth and we can talk to him.

So I made an offer and I, I offered him a price that I

thought it was worth and I said let's both runner in the Swedish

Derby. You keep the purse.

The winner got would have you know she didn't win, she ran

second, but he did OK, got 54,000.

So it was pretty good. The trainer, I didn't know him,

but I know of him. Niels Peterson, very good

trainer, goes to Dubai every year, does well, wins a few

races. So he is training the Philly to

run the Alabama. She arrives Friday a little

early for the race but you like him to get there.

Like 5 days you know, not 8 if you can help it.

So she will arrive on Friday and we're going to have to take a

shot and run her in the Alabama. She will the trip of anything a

mile and a quarter will be short for her.

She breaks OK, she lays back. It's like riding a bicycle.

You know, eventually if the race is long enough to to get up

there, we're hoping to hit the board.

We're not going into the race with any fantasies like we're

going to win it, but mile and 1/4 for her will help.

That's a tough mile and a quarter.

That's a deep track at Saratoga. It's more like 1111 1/2 furlongs

in terms of energy and we're going enjoy hoping to hit the

board. Barry Irwin with us for Team

Valor. So did you want to announce on

this show? I know you made the move from

California to Kentucky. Are you moving to Sweden to

concentrate on the Swedish tournament?

I'll tell you what, when people see her, she she is a knockout.

You know, my, my encourage people to look that way.

Yeah, she's a beautiful animal. Love it.

All right. Well, Barry, thanks so much for

joining us here. I'm sure Shaw's got one more.

We'll get you out of here. Well, I just wanted, you know,

celebrating 200, great at stakes wins.

I just wanted you to take us back to the beginning.

How did this all come together, and what has the journey for

Team Valor been like over the years?

Well, I actually started out as Clover Racing Stables and then

we morphed into Team Valor. My best friend Jeff Siegel and

I, we used to hang out in the press box together.

He was a handicapper. I worked for the Racing Forum

and the third rate of California Magazine and Jeff proceeded me

into horse ownership and then I got in.

Eventually we bought a few together and I got approached by

some guys that worked for a different company selling

interests and fractional fractional interests in horses.

We formed a partnership with them.

We realized after a few weeks that we didn't want to be

partners with them, so we bought them out.

They continued to work for us for a while.

The very first source we bought won the Hollywood Derby Grade 1.

We bought them for 60,000 bucks. Yeah, there you go.

Barry bought them for 60 grand off of Bretton Jones when he was

running for governor. The horse was called Political

Ambition, which is pretty cool. And it's just, it's just been a

dream bride for, you know, 38 years and it never gets boring.

Every year you're going to come up with new horses.

It's not like owning a sports team.

You know, you want to get rid of something, you get rid of it.

You want to buy something, you buy it, that's it.

And the horses don't talk back. They don't ask for raises, they

don't want to be traded. So it's pretty cool.

And there's I've never lost my enthusiasm for winning a race,

so it's been cool. I'm very jealous, Barry.

It sounds awesome. He's very team baller.

Appreciate you jumping on the podcast today, Barry.

Congratulations on 200. It is a remarkable remark.

And. Good luck with your little your

Swedish important of your eventual move.

They have IKEA there too I've been told so OK.

Great. Thank you.

Thanks, Barry. There you go, Barry, everyone.

Team Baller, join us here on Blood Horse Monday.

Horses from Sweden went into integrated stakes.

No big deal, Sean. No big deal.

Yeah, it's just what people do. First horse we bought.

First horse we bought what, a grade one.

An easy game. Just move on.

It's an easy game here, Sean. Good.

Good stuff, man. Woodbine's one of those places

where I've really got to lock in.

If I'm gonna hit a bet up there. I, I just, I have to change how

I'm thinking and, and recalibrate the names and, you

know, the Patrick Husbands of the world and that sort of

stuff. I just got to recalibrate.

Is that is that because of the track or is that because there's

so many different connections up there?

It's both actually, Yeah. Just the layouts like at that

outer outer turf course, that one turn mile, that kind of

stuff. You just have to kind of

recalibrate for what you're looking at.

And and that sort of I always think about the wood by mile

when I'm I'm handicapping the the Breeders Cup turf or the

British Cup Turf mile, that kind of stuff, right, Because the

layout is so different than the tracks we get once we get

settled into the Breeders Cup, that sort of thing.

But yeah, no Appreciate Barry jumping on the show with us.

Should we talk to Frank? Should we talk to Frank ganks

today? I think we should talk to Frank

ganks today. How are you Frank doing a little

summer do on Frank ganks. I like that.

Doing well, guys. Yeah, it's just sort of the calm

before the storm here up in Saratoga.

It's the the rare evening sale, which Saratoga sale of course is

what we're talking about, one of the biggest sales in the

industry. Just a lot of success with the

leading by grade one winners. You know, they kind of do some

of the work as it's a select sale and and bring up the

consignors and breeders, bring up some top horses.

But yeah, it's a little bit. What do you it's kind of like

athlete with a night game. What do you do all day before

the night game? Once, once Sean and I get over

there it it is a lot of energy at that sale and Fasic Tipton

has had success with that and it's really a unique atmosphere.

Frank angst with us. He's presented this week by

FanDuel and it's blood Horse Monday.

Here we are presented during this segment by FanDuel racing.

Download that app right now that with our friends at FanDuel A

racing. So Frank, you're up there for

the sale. Is there a buzz about a first

time sire? I know that flight lines are the

mix this year. Is there a buzz about any of the

any of the OR maybe one that's moving along, that's moving up

in the ranks? I mean, there's most assuringly

buzz about flight line, that's for sure.

I mean that this horse is every milestone that he's reached,

there's been buzz, you know, from his racing to his first

fold. It was for, you know, first

weanlings and now first yielding.

So it'll be exciting to see how those horses do.

One of the very cool things that they have going on in this sale

that I wrote about at bloodhorse.com is they have full

sibling or half siblings to the past 3 Preakness winners.

And all three of those Preakness winners also were sold at the

sale. And it's the same breeders, same

consignor. So everybody's sort of just

running back, you know, why? Why mess with success?

They're running it right back. So yeah, that, that'll be

exciting for sure. I think I just, you know, this

this weekend, being out on the track, it's funny kind of paying

attention to the backside. And as the days have gotten

closer to the sale, you're starting to see more owners,

more breeders showing up. All of a sudden it's a lot

busier on the backside. Frank, have you had a chance to

get in to the sales area yet and feel any of that excitement?

Yeah, I walked around quite on two different days since really

cool all all the people that you would expect to be here or here,

that's for sure. You know you see kind of cool

things that happened. We mentioned the relative close

relatives of the three Preakness winners and was over at the barn

where the half sister to journalism is AT.

And Michael McCarthy came over just and and he kind of

acknowledged that he doesn't always do a lot of sales stuff,

but he just wanted to kind of pay a visit to the Philly and

hung out with her and and looked her over.

So you you see cool things like that.

There's there's so many connections in this industry and

that's always fun to see in the mornings and it you couldn't ask

for better better weather to look at horses.

I mean you quite a few yeah. I mean, quite a few of the

consigners have shade areas set up and most years that's very

much needed. But this year, boy, it's like

spring day after spring day, just if you imagine perfect

weather, that's what it's been like every day.

So that that doesn't hurt, that's for sure.

Break. The other thing going on up

there at Saratoga is the Jockey Club round tables, including an

introduction of a new head at the Jockey Club.

Anything stand out the last couple days during those

meetings? Yeah, I mean that that was a big

kind of a coming out party for Everett Dobson.

He is a Oklahoma guy made us meant money on on the phone

industry communications and it's also a part owner of the

Oklahoma City Thunder. And so we we have that owner and

and we have Vinnie Viola owning the Stanley Cup winner.

So it's nice year for racing ownership.

But yeah, Stuart Chaney is stepping down after a successful

10 year run in that role. And Everett kind of just went

over some things where he sees the industry.

He, he really noted that the industry is in a good place on

safety, not that anything's going to change there.

He expects that to continue to do well.

And, and with that in mind, he really outlined kind of focusing

on the business side of the industry, trying to get the, the

numbers of horses that are being bred each year up, trying to get

the handle up, trying to move the business aspects of the

industry forward. And he seems really focused on

that. And I know another one of the

panels that took a lot of great interest to a friend of the show

here, Steve Kornacki, was with Griffin Johnson.

What did you take away from their conversation?

Yeah, they they both presented at the show.

You know, one, one thing that it was kind of interesting that the

way people come to this industry and, and, and I think sometimes

there's a tendency to, oh, that guy's a handicapper or, or that

person is just a horse lover. But you know, it's funny,

however you come to the industry, you usually develop an

appreciation for all aspects of it.

There's so many different corners of horse racing and

breeding. And so obviously Steve's the

numbers guy and kind of outlined how he's been that since a child

and now makes his living doing that, analyzing polls and and

doing election night coverage where he's trying to see what

the outcome might be. And that and in recent years,

he's helped out NBC Sports and very much gladly has helped out

the horse racing coverage and he's been a terrific addition.

So he came from it from a numbers perspective, a

handicapping perspective. But you know, he also told the

story of of now he's just so enamored with with top horses

and trainers. And, you know, he he really had

an affection for Whitmore, a champion sprinter, and he

mentioned Wayne Lucas and you know, just how he didn't have a

dime on Cesar Gray and last year's Preakness.

Preakness keeps coming up today, but didn't have a dime on the

horse. And it's the horse was turning

for home. Just all the rooting interest

went from for for Steve went on that horse.

You know, he was really pulling for him to see Wayne get that

win. And then on the on, you know,

Griffin Johnson, he he grew up around horses, but not great,

you know, not thoroughbreds, not horse racing.

And he's got into it, got in on a small ownership side.

And that was such a success for horse racing, his promotion of

the sport with Sandman and won the Arkansas Derby and then ran

in the Kentucky Derby. And he made a good point of

saying, you know, you you don't necessarily have to market the

betting on the sport for new people.

He's like, let's bring in new people and make them love the

sport, make them understand the sport, make them under, make

them enjoy the behind the scenes, you know, stuff that you

don't always get to see and that social media is really good at

that. And he says, you know, once

people become fans, they'll bet, they'll bet, you know, and, and

I think that makes a lot of sense.

He's like, hey, these people start betting Sandman because

they had a rooting interest and and I do, you know, obviously

there's some high level handicappers that, you know, do

amazing things. But I do think the majority of

the people that bet on the majority, not the majority

dollars, but the majority of people that bet on racing, I

think they kind of approach it as a fantasy league sport.

You know you have your favorite horses, You you bet on them.

Or trainers or jockeys, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And if it's, yeah, the people in

the game and, and it maybe even if it's that day, you at least

have your program and you pick out your favorites for, for

whatever reason and you're tied to that horse for the 2 minutes

that the race takes or what have you.

So I, I think that I think both of them provided some terrific

insight for sure. I can't remember a person coming

to a sport like Johnson has and just so naturally sliding into

it. He fits in so naturally.

He seems around the bar and he's a natural and, and and I know he

grew up around horses a bit, but he's such a natural back there.

And I remember some of the early criticism that people had

online, like he wasn't talking betting enough.

And I just remember thinking, shut up.

I don't let the kid let the kid do anything.

And we're already here. The Derby was only three months

ago. He's already given speak.

He's given talks, Frank and at the at the Jockey Club around

say, well, I mean, this guy is he's way ahead of whatever I

whatever expectations. He acknowledges that he's made

mistakes and language or the way he phrases things.

And you know, it's a sport. Let's be forgiving of that.

It it takes a while for new people to learn, let's, you

know, let's you can tell them a different way of saying it, but

let's let's not turn off people of the sport by just trying to

be we don't want to be a niche sport.

We want to grow the sport on whatever level that means.

And I think, you know, Griffin made a point in saying that said

some things the wrong way and people say, oh, that's it's

actually this. And then he's interested in

learning more about that and just keep the momentum going

rather than try to be this exclusive club.

The more people we can bring in, the better.

Yeah, it was fun seeing him with the with the Ewing connections

as well. It's obvious he's going to keep

going after this, which I think for what we do.

I mean, if if he's in on a horse every year, it reminds me, Sean,

you know, we were, we were interviewing Brooke Smith before

the Derby and all. He's like, yeah, I just want to

be here every year. You know, seems like Greg

Johnson's got a little bit of that same too.

Yeah, and, you know, just, he's always, you know, he I've

really, I've, I've been able to see him a lot at Pimlico at

Saratoga now. And it always just amazes me how

much time he puts in at the barn.

Yesterday morning I was at Mark Cassie's barn and he stood there

for probably 30-40 minutes having a conversation with one

of the exercise riders there, Rinaldo DuMont.

And then when they finished the conversation, he went with

Rinaldo to go learn how to clean the equipment.

So Ronaldo was showing him everything.

There were no cameras. He wasn't filming anything for

social media online. He just genuinely wanted to know

how to do this. And he told me that the reason

why he was doing that is because he wants to be able to help out

when he's around the bar, and he doesn't wanna just stand there

and watch the whole time. So he's taking, he's taking it

upon himself to really put an emphasis on learning the sport

and trying to he he's got the bug now.

We've all gotten the bug before. He's got the bug now.

So we're going to see what getting the bug and having the

meet the following that he has, what that can do as we go

forward. Frank, what should we be

watching for in the upcoming magazine or what are you working

on at bloodhorse.com? I mean, I just really the next

couple days the focus will continue on the sale.

So we have a really good team of really five people, 4IN Saratoga

and editing help back in Kentucky as another person or

two really. So just look for that coverage

and then both the daily newsletter and online at

bloodhorse.com. Yeah, make sure you get signed

up right now. bloodhorse.com, go ahead and click on Daily at the

top there. Get Signed Up comes to your

e-mail inbox every day. No cost to you.

You. Know what else I did this week,

Louis? As long as I've been covering

the sport, I've never been to the Racing Hall of Fame

induction. So I see our next guest is Pat.

Catman. It was really cool.

This was the first year I went and I'm a big Smarty Jones fan

and so that that was really cool to see.

Love it. Oh, there you go.

That's great. Well, I'm glad.

I'm glad you got to go to that finally.

It's surprising that you've never been, but so.

I would recommend, yeah, any fan that has interest, especially if

you're really tied to a horse, to to get up there and enjoy

that morning. Well, it's well done all.

Right. Well, great.

Thanks, Frank. We appreciate you, buddy.

We'll get you out of here. Move on to our 3rd guest of the

program here. Her name is Pat Chapman, part of

the she owns Smarty Jones. I mean, what a what a world.

I mean, what an absolute world. She's waving.

She's covering her face. She's doing all the good things

that everyone does on a podcast. I'm just kidding.

Pat, how are you? You doing All right?

Oh my gosh, this ride has been incredible and this past weekend

was just the icing on the cake, the cherry on the top.

Unbelievable experience. And my adrenaline is still

pumping. I'm telling.

No more cliches, no more cherries on top of what?

What else can we do here? I could think of a.

Few more I would be tossing to Matthew.

Well, Sean, you got to get down there, buddy.

Tell us about your experience done visiting with Smarty.

Yeah, so last week ahead of the ceremony, I got to go down to

Pennsylvania and go visit him at Equistar and see him run around

the field and he looks fantastic.

Pat. He, I just, I don't don't know

how he's 24. It still seems like yesterday.

He does not look like he's 24, but he is.

He's just such a special horse still, even to this day.

You know why he it looks so great.

He is as happy as he's ever been.

He's with an incredible family. I don't know if you had a chance

to meet Rodney. Oh yeah, I did.

Oh, that's right, you were there.

You see, I'm still in that cloud, still in a fog.

But that's why he looks so good. They take such good care of him.

And he is. He's extremely happy.

He is so attached to them, they're so attached to him that

last year when I heard he was, no, it was earlier this year

when I heard that Smarty was on the ballot for the Hall of Fame

and we all had our fingers crossed.

I asked Rodney at that time if I could just plan on leaving

Smarty there for the rest of his life.

I had really thought about moving him to Kentucky so more

fans could see him. And that's what I've been

wanting for him, for the fans to be able to see him, but I

couldn't move him at this point. He just, I think it'd break his

heart and I know it would break Rodney and Sharon's hearts.

So they he, he's just thriving there.

He doesn't he look great? He looks awesome.

Well, and I'm also excited to see for any fans that might be

in the area, I believe they're planning to have a big

celebration of his Hall of Fame induction at the farm this

Saturday that they can go attend to.

We had a article on Smarty Jones last week and the information

for that is in that article. But his connection with the

fans, I know I told you when I met you the other day, he's the

first horse I remember watching. So he played a big impact on me

getting into of the sport. What is it like still, all these

years later, having fans reach out to you and tell you that

story? It's it's unbelievable and it

happens often, not as much as it did 20, but it still happens.

It's incredible. People I meet in the horse

business, like you say, I'm in this business or I'm in the, you

know, involved in the sport because of Smarty, because I

loved him. And I know a couple of young

women who were 10 years old at the time that that he was

running one of them. It had been her first horse race

ever to watch him win second place in the Belmont.

She fell in love with horses, fell in love with party and

she's she's involved in the business.

She was at Saratoga for the Hall of Fame presentation.

And the other one is in the horse because both those young

girls then ended up going through the Flying Start

program. And but there are so many, many

of them then. And I love it.

I love hearing that it's he's been so good for the sport.

And I hope some of the people who are unhappy about him being

in the Hall of Fame, I hope they realize the impact that he truly

has had on the business. Plus Sean will fight any of them

so if anything needs it Sean will just show up and fight him

for. The Hall of Name, You can't get

more fame than Smarty Jones's. He's named after a woman named

Millie. Pat.

Can you? Do you have a great story about

that? Is there a reason that you named

Smarty after Millie? Absolutely.

But it wasn't Millie. She was never called Millie.

You're you're believing everything you read in.

I like to read, Pat. Come on, I.

Read it, I think. Who did?

Who started it? It wasn't me.

That was my mother. My mother was Mildred Evelyn

McNair when she was a young girl, before she married my

father. And she spent a lot of time

living with her grandparents, Mama and Papa Jones.

And Papa would say to her, what's your name, little girl?

And she'd say Mildred Evelyn McNair and he would say Smarty

Jones. So she had to say Mildred Evelyn

McNair, Smarty Jones. So when he was born on her

birthday, Yeah, born on my mother's birthday.

And you know, Mark Reed, an original trainer of ours, had

said don't ever name a horse after a relative because he had

stuck with him. Well, this is a good one to be

stuck with, let me tell you. But named him.

I didn't want to name him Mildred.

I didn't think that would go over well.

And he might not have run as well as he ran, but Smarty

Jones, I remembered the story that my mother had told me when

I was a young girl about her grandfather calling her Smarty

Jones. So that's how that happened and

why he got that name. And I think it was pretty catchy

and people seem to like it. Pat, take us back to 2004.

Smarty Jones is coming into the Kentucky Derby.

Just what are your memories of that whole ride?

Oh boy, that was an awful lot of excitement.

You know, we knew that we were in the Derby with a chance.

We knew we had a good horse that had the talent to do it, But we

also knew how many ways you can lose a horse race.

You know, we've lost it in every every way imaginable.

We've lost races, but everything went went just right.

And Stewie rode that race as if he'd been riding in that race

for many years. His first Kentucky Derby, he was

a master. He, you know, he just made all

the right moves and, and the excitement was just incredible.

But I'll tell you, coming up to the Derby, you know, we were at

Oak Lawn Park, which I got to tell you guys, if you've never

been to Oak Lawn Park, you want to go.

There are true horsemen out there.

They love racing and and that track is always they're they're

people always there and they fell in love with Smarty when he

started winning out there and they talking about Smarty

parties for the first time. So we won the first race there

in at Oak Lawn. We won the second race.

We still didn't have any points to get into the Derby.

So when we came up to the Arkansas Derby and that was when

the excitement was really incredible.

We had to win or finish second to get enough points to get into

the Derby, and he won that and that set him up for the big

bonus from Mr. Sella, which I'm sure you've heard about.

Oh yeah. And then going into the Derby,

honestly, the the excitement was incredible.

Just hoping that that all the horses came in safe and sound

and that we could have some good racing luck, which we sure did.

We had the right trainer and the right jockey and the right team

behind Smarty and it all fell into place.

It was wonderful. $5,000,000 bonus there for sweeping the

Rebel, the Arkansas Derby and the Kentucky Derby.

Not not the end of the world there, Pat Eh?

That's. Right, let me tell you, that

ain't all bad, is it? Pay a couple bills on that one,

he goes on. He wins the Preakness by a

record 11 1/2 lengths. Did you fall asleep during that

race? How did that one go for you?

Pat Yeah. I took a quick nap.

Are you kidding? When he started pulling ahead,

it Oh, oh, my golly. It it was unbelievable.

Unbelievable. And that record still stands.

And I hope it stays forever. I, you know, I really do. 11 1/2

legs is a lot of legs so. For a while.

It's not 31, but it's a lot of links.

He had a shorter distance so he would have made it to 31.

That's right. No, Oh no, that would not have

happened. Well, we get to the Belmont.

I, I heard you say it earlier. I heard Rodney say it at the

farm. You guys look at it as we won

second place because of how well he still ran in that race.

Everybody took a shot at him. I know there's probably a lot of

disappointment when he got beat, but I feel like in that race we

really saw what a true champion he was.

I'm assuming that's the way you guys feel.

Absolutely. And I, it, it bothers me when I

hear someone say he lost the Belmont.

So matter of fact, they put that on his plaque and I said, you

know, I said I can't accept this.

They got a couple of things wrong on the plaque, the Hall of

Fame plaque, and I got in touch with Brian and I said, I'm so

sorry. And I hate to complain because

I'm so thrilled he's in. But you've made some.

You got to make some changes on that plaque.

And that was one of them. That, you know, and that he was

retired when he lost the Belmont.

I don't like to hear loss #1 and that's not the reason he was

retired, but that, you know, that I don't know if we could

have stood it if he had won the Belmont.

The excitement, the the love for that horse.

The fan mail we got, it was incredible.

We got bins and bins of fan mail.

Smarty did, we did as the owners.

John Service and Stuart Elliott got so much fan mail.

I don't know if we could have handled it if he had actually

won the Triple Crown. And I don't think it, you know,

now he's got that Hall of Fame under his belt and that is the

crown he's got his crown that he so deserves.

It was a disappointment and I'm glad you saw that.

You know, what happened in that right race.

You know, John said he had a target on his back and there

were three jockeys, 3 outstanding jockeys, who really

took a shot at him and wore him down, which is what they had

planned to do and they did it. You know what, Smarty beat

himself. I always say he beat himself

because they sucked him right in.

He was so competitive that you know, they got him going and

they wore him out on the backstretch.

But that was an incredible race that he ran.

And I know by your side the entire journey was your late

husband Roy. Just what was the experience

like sharing that with him? Oh my God, I miss him so much

through this because you know, he's the reason we got involved

in racing. He had had horses all of his

life and when I met him, I learned to ride.

We rode many a time together. We fox haunted together.

We box haunted in Ireland and fell in love.

Then when he one day he said to me, you know, I'd always wanted

to have a racehorse and I said, let's do it, not you go ahead

and do it. I said, let's do it.

And we just had so much fun with racing with our first real

trainer, Mark Reed. And then we went to Bob Kmac and

you know that story, that heartbreaking story.

And from that we we got, we had a couple of trainers with some

of our Leicester horses, but we wanted the trainer that would

travel when we knew that Smarty was before he ever got to the

racetrack. We knew that he was a special

horse. No idea he was a Derby horse,

but so we called Mark Reed and they asked trainers names and he

gave us clue and one of them was John Service.

So we went with John, but my husband being with him through

that, he was incredible. He was very sick near the end.

He didn't live a year and a half after that Derby Triple Crown

trail, but he it was the best medicine he could have had.

He was so happy and it was so tough.

Nobody will ever know how hard it was for him to get to those

races, but he did it. The joy he had through it all

and I miss him terribly being here without him, he said.

I said in my little talk. I said he's here in my heart.

He's always here in my heart. But it was great to see him, his

excitement. Well, Pat, we appreciate it.

Congratulations on the Crown, as you said there of that Hall of

Fame nod for Smarty Jones. As far as Sean is concerned,

well deserved, yes. Wonderful.

Now, will I see either of you, Sean?

Will you be there next Saturday? No, unfortunately, I'm going to

have to stay up here at Saratoga.

So unfortunately I won't be there, but I know the the worst

place in the world to get stuck instead.

But but I wish you guys a lot of fun down there and I know

everybody's going to enjoy seeing him like I did.

I'm, I'm, I'm glad I got my little private party with him

this past week. So.

Too. He's quite a character, isn't

he? Oh yes, he is.

He really does have that charisma that John Service

talked about. Thank you so much for joining

us. Congrats on the Crown and

hopefully we'll catch up down the line.

Thank you so much. I've enjoyed it very much, guys.

Thank you. Pat Patch I've enjoyed it from

owner of a Smarty Jones now in the Hall of Fame.

The reason Sean's in this game. How about that?

One of the reasons. So there you go.

I know it's interesting, Sean, because that that's something

I've learned on this show is * power still matters in this

sport because we have stars on the three-year old circuit and

those numbers are out of control when we talk about those horses

and interview their connections and you've got video from those

places and it has been a reminder, excuse me, that horse

racing, like Frank matched earlier, is like every other

sport. It needs its stars and it needs,

you know, we're not, you know, there's lots of different

aspects of our game that exists that don't exist in others, but

this is a sport where we still need stars.

Smart is an absolute star. No, no freaking question about

it. And and that O four run 2 was

the 100th anniversary of the of the Triple Crown.

And it was at a time when we just kind of wondered if if

there was a chance that it was going to be, you know, that that

that was that this was the breakthrough.

This was the one that we were going to have and it just never

ended up having. Yeah, I just, you know, he's a

obviously a Pennsylvania Brad. He was very big in the region.

I was 4, about to turn five years old at the time, so I

didn't fully grasp the importance of what he was doing.

But I remember the Belmont when he won second place, I was at

the I was at a restaurant with my family and everybody in the

restaurant was gathered around the TV to see whether or not

Smarty could do it. And I remember everybody was

yelling at the TV, everybody was cheering for him.

And that was probably the moment that initially got me hooked.

I always say the two big horses for me was Smarty Jones is the

one who got me started and then Barbara was the 1-2 years later

that sealed the deal with me being in the racing industry.

Both are very special to me. And see, Smarty just the last

week was that was a very, very touching moment for me,

especially to see him doing so well there.

Yeah, and people really love the videos.

Where can they find those, Sean, of our journeys and everything

so that people might be watching or listening right now that

wouldn't know where to find? Them yeah if you want to see

smarty Jones I posted a video on my X account Twitter account BH

under score S Collins you can see that video there we posted a

longer form video on the blood horse website if you just search

smarty Jones blood horse headlines you should be able to

find the most recent things involving him there was an

article that's got that video inside of it and we also have

the that video it's about 3 1/2 minutes long of just watching

him run around and do stuff which for me is the best kind of

video you can have you can find that right on our YouTube

channel so if you are watching the podcast here on YouTube you

can just hop right on over to that video afterwards if you are

watching us on Spotify or listening to us anywhere else go

check out the blood horse YouTube channel and you can

catch all that footage of smarty Jones I'll.

Be racing this coming weekend. Different spots, but different

and different outcomes. But the Arlington Million this

weekend at Colonial win and in for the Breeders Cup there,

young Sean, kind of a shorter feel, but we get Mystic Dan

trying the grass after a workout.

Do you like Mystic Dan trying the grass here?

I think it actually makes a fair amount of sense.

It does make quite a bit of sense.

I, I actually just spoke to Kenny Mcpeak this morning about

that. So you can you can look out for

that coming up on the Blood Horse Plus on the website,

because I just I got video of him breezing on the turf a

couple days ago and then we talked to Kenny about it.

So you can catch that in the coming days.

But so I think it's a good move for him.

You know, Kenny said, we know where we stand among the classic

division horses right now and this is an opportunity to see

where he could possibly stand against the turf horses.

I think if you're going to take a take a shot at the turf, I

think this is a really interesting race to do it.

I think it's the right kind of field where he can potentially

be successful in it. And you know, he he drew the

rail. So you know, he's in a spot he

likes to be and he loves riding that that rail of Hernandez up

the inside. So I think this is I like

seeing, you know, obviously we're happy to see a Kentucky

Derby winner back at 4, but I'm also excited to see a Kentucky

Derby winner at 4 trying something new.

I just think that's always interesting to see you know

exactly what what these horses are capable of and you know, if

it doesn't work, you come back in the Lucas Classic a month and

a half later and you keep on going on the dirt.

But why not take a shot? It's a grade one.

It's an opportunity to see whether or not he can perform at

the same level on a different surface.

And if he can, that opens so many doors of possibilities for

him down the line. We had Barry Irwin on earlier

Animal Kingdom, he could go between all three surfaces and

there was never a problem. So let's see if Mystic Dan can

do the same thing. Shout out to friend of the show

Lance Gazaway, owner of a missing Dan.

Hopefully he runs well. I think he can I and I think the

distance makes a ton of sense. It just there's there are lots

of opportunities in a way that you know, there was a little bit

of complaint from Ripoli about not enough races for older

horses a lot on the turf actually, right.

There's actually a lot of opportunities to go two turns on

the turf. So maybe Mystic Dan can find

something here. I'm with you.

You know, when, when, when, when Lucas passed away, Sean, I, I

think it would have been very reasonable to be concerned that

we would lose a trainer who was just willing to try things with

horses and just move them forward.

And it's a reminder we still have some of those minds amongst

the trainers in this game still like Mcpeak stands out out West.

I think of like a Doug O'Neill who's willing to try things,

switch surfaces, do that sort of stuff.

It's nice that we still have these, you know, these sorts of

trainers and and and connections in the in the industry, because,

you know, Lance Gassaway could be like, no man, we won, we won

a great stakes on dirt this year.

Why are we going to the turf? But he's like, no, OK, I trust

Kenny Mcpeak here and I I that's I think a good sign for our

sport that we've still got those guys willing to take chances.

It's nice. Yes, and it makes it more

interesting for, you know, us as fans, us as handicappers,

because you don't know what's going to happen.

So everybody's going to be tuning in to see how he does on

the handicapping side. You might love him and think

that you're going to get a price on him in this race.

You might hate the move and you think you're going to get a

price on somebody else because he's the Derby winner.

So it's one of those. It's going to draw a lot of

attention, I think, to the race at Colonial this weekend, and

I'm looking forward to it. There's too many places to be

this weekend. You've got great ones at

Saratoga, you've got the Smarty Jones Party in Pennsylvania, you

have the Arlington Million at Colonial.

There's just too much to do on Saturday.

Movie. That's why Sunday I'll be at

Elms. Yeah, there you go.

Sorry, little little little Derby, little cowboy Jones.

So I'll be there on Sunday. We'll talk about that when we

get back next week or reminder as we do it this time of the

episode every week. Go check out the blood horse

magazine QR code on the screen if you happen to be watching

right now. If you are not, you're welcome

to head to the website rightnowbloodhorse.com.

Just search for look for magazine, excuse me, the tab at

the top of the homepage and get signed up for that beautiful

photos. And of course, right now the way

Lucas remembrance episode. Excuse me, edition already on

the shelves and out there as well.

All right, Sean, you are laughing at me.

Why are you laughing at me? What's?

The I'm laughing at you accidentally saying episode

instead of edition when you're talking about too many of these.

Shows Louis I do a little too much talking and not enough

writing. Well, he does a lot of writing.

His name? Sean Collins, He's up in

Saratoga for us all summer, as is Frank Angst, of course.

Tons of coverage of that sale going on right now at

bloodhorse.com. Next week, we'll have your

recaps about the Ellis Park Derby and of course, that

Arlington Million will know a little bit more about who is

shooting for the Breeders Cup then, but I'm Lou Rebeau, he's

Sean Collins. Thanks for joining us here on

Bloodhorse Funding. We'll see you next week.

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Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.