BloodHorse Monday 9/15/25

I welcome and it is a mid-september My goodness

edition of Blood HORSE Monday. His name's Sean, my name is

Louis. Thanks for hanging out with us,

starting your horse racing week with us here on the podcast.

If you are someone who hangs out with us every week and you have

not subscribed to our channels yet, please do that.

Give us five star review. Appreciate all those things as

well. Sean.

Hi. Hello.

I know you were a a trackside guy this morning.

How is Churchill these days? It's it's pretty good.

It's. Busy, I'm sure.

Everything's busy, the horses are back, you know, none of the

barns are empty. We're back in racing season now.

I've always wanted to know is there any like oldie trainers

are all at the Keeneland sale. We you know, the mice will play

kind of thing here. Cats away potentially.

I don't. I haven't.

Seen any of that? OK.

All right. You have anybody to out on that?

Front, No, I don't have anybody to out on that front, but but

yeah, sometimes it could be, could be a little difficult

sometimes doing doing my job, being back there each morning

when the trainers are not pressing.

They're all up at the Keeneland sale.

We'll get into the Keeneland sale a little bit later.

I'll get a quote from this invisible trainer here.

Exactly. Yeah, there are.

I have some great video of a couple of the horses that ran

this past weekend. Never got to do the video

interview to go with it, but I got some great video of the

horses. So if you follow me on Twitter,

VH under score S Collins, at least you got to see the video

with the horses last week. Yeah, there you go.

Busy time here in Kentucky. Everybody up at that sale,

everybody's excited. I know I've been up there twice.

Always an interesting month because we have the Kentucky

downs thing, right? And then that ends and everybody

runs to Keeneland for the sale and then everybody runs back to

Churchill, then everybody runs back to Keeneland and it makes

for this. And and look, the first Derby

prep, the first Oak prep happened in this month as well,

you know, and it's just a around the area, as you point out, it's

a hectic month. Yeah, it just is, frankly,

everybody's in Kentucky. That's exactly right.

So and you know, it's interesting too.

I don't know if you've ever, I doubt you've had to do this.

Have you ever had to pick someone up from the airport for

the Kentucky Derby? No.

OK, so you can. Go on like a Tuesday or a.

Wednesday, I was going to say technically I guess I have, but

they came several many days. No, no, no, no.

That's. Perfect, actually.

OK, But you'll see, like Steve Asmussen at the airport picking

up an owner or something. Yeah, it's just part of the job,

right? So these guys are everywhere.

They're nowhere. Everything else for sure, but as

you mentioned, we will talk Keeneland sale for sure on this

episode. Extended interview with our guy

Frank Angst from bloodhorse.com about the sale continued.

Massive numbers on that and we'll talk about all of that

when we get there. Saturday at Churchill, though,

did kick off, whether I like it or not, the road to the Kentucky

Derby for 2026. No sovereignty did not win this

race last year. But look, we get a winner in

this spot that I think is pretty interesting.

What did you see Saturday? Do you have a take on Spice

Runner? That frankly, I think the full

circle moment is on the table and this is what it is.

You get the guy who got to train Gun Runner training one of his

kids who's already good as a 2 year old.

The thing about Gun Runner was how great he was at 4:00 and

5:00 right when he was older at the end of his three-year old

year for sure. But it took him a little bit to

develop the full circle moment would be Steve Asmuss, and most

wins in North American training history gets his first Derby

with a horse that really put him over the top.

I mean, Gun Runner, easily the best horse he's ever trained,

yes. Well, I mean, he did train

curling. Let's be I go, but on the track,

on the track, I think Gun Runner is one of the greats.

Yeah, I think he's one of the greats too, but I, I don't know

if I we'll get Frank's thoughts on that.

Yeah. We'll get Frank over the head

with Carlin, yeah. But but yeah, it was it was an

exciting I do I do want to say I want to give credit to comport

as well. If you are hell of a racist,

say, say, say we had somebody who a couple months ago, they

watched the Kentucky Derby for the very first time, which we

know a lot of people did. And you know, they saw

sovereignty. Maybe they followed along the

Triple Crown. They're like, you know what, I I

like this racing stuff. Let me try to pay attention a

little bit more before next year's Derby.

They hear that Let. Me check out blood horse Monday.

That's. Hopefully they're listening to

this. Let's go.

Well, you know, they maybe, you know, we're like, let me follow

along with the Derby trail this year.

They got treated. Brilliant start.

Yeah. That was what probably the best

start you could have had to try to get people hooked.

It's actually not a competitive race.

For some reason someone always seems to.

Take all these wins by like, 5610 lengths or something.

Jonathan's way did that last year.

You think back to like, you know, the Dennis's moments about

this time or not this time. Sit on go.

Yeah, sit on, go. You know, you think about those

horses right away. We got a thriller down the

stretch here. And you know, they were.

They were. Cost me a lot of money.

Did it? Did you have comport?

I had comport two other horses but not splice runner.

I was like, yeah maybe you won't get there.

Maybe a beat eye right here, get some money.

Cost me about 600 bucks. In that picture, and he was

obviously room for improvement. He was very green down the

stretch, no? See that but.

He got there anyway. It's nice seeing.

It's fun watching these two year olds.

He wins nicely on debut. He comes out, doesn't really

compete, isn't really in the competition for the win in the

Bashford Manor, improves next time out in the Ellis Park

Juvenile, flips the flips the script on Comport in their next

meeting in the Iroquois and gets those 10 Derby points.

So it's nice to see these horses develop.

There's still obviously room for improvement for him.

I thought it was a great start. I know he's a full brother to

Gunite, who we know was very good sprinter, very full Myler.

I don't know what I think about him long distance when we were

looking at the mile and 1/4 of the Derby.

But I do think, and I mentioned this on the show last week, that

one of the things that changed with them putting the Iroquois a

mile a couple years ago is we might not get a Derby horse out

of this. But we're we might see some of

these horses that are going to be really good milers, really

good, you know, sprinters next year.

You know, the horses that are going to be in the Pat De Mile

and the Woody Stevens and the Allen Jerkins, you know, those

kind of horses that are going to be in that race.

I think if he doesn't stretch out distance, I think he he

could be one of those horses that we're looking at all of

next year in those races, in those spots in the three-year

old division. I'm sure people have their

thoughts when they think of trainers, the thing that they're

great at. I think of 6 furlong dirt

sprints with Steve Asmussen. I just do, yeah.

So I'm not surprised. Yeah, so many good ones.

And so that part would not be surprising.

But I'm with you. I think I, I obviously with the

breeding distancing, what I'm worried about with this one,

it's just is he going to be good in the spring right now?

If dad's an indication, then yeah, he's going to develop.

He's going to get better as he gets older.

We've seen a lot of the gun runners do that.

We've also seen them have really good successes. 2 year olds,

right? And we'll get into it with break

about the sale. It's an incredible time for the

stallion registry in this country.

As far as the top end. They're so consistent.

They are. It's stunning.

I mean, it's unbelievable. Gun Runner certainly in that

group. Spice Runner gets the win there

in the Grade 3 Iroquois at Churchill on Saturday over the

one turn mile as well was the Pocahontas Stakes.

This was 1 I did get right I just.

Played you had a decent payday for this one.

Didn't I did, and so of course I take it by the win wins in the

Pocahontas here and she's an interesting one because she's

trained of course, like I did Mcpeak and this is a guy that

of. Course, has he ever done

anything? Has he ever been?

Before, by the way, has not won three the last four of these.

OK, OK, so he's done well in this race.

So how has how has he done with Phillies?

Outside, yeah, I've never heard of it and so, but it's a whole

thing with with both VV Stream and Phil and Feisty.

I mean those are both nice Phillies at the time, but did

not translate to the spring, right.

But on this list we see far more and I don't know if this is an

actual trend and if this might be a Peter Deck kind of

question. Do Phillies more often translate

from a great 2 year old fall to a great 3 year old spring than

Colts do? It feels like it in my mind

because like I see Sarah Bergani Empress on this list, I see La

Cara on this list, I see hidden connection on this list, I see

on tappable on this list. I say I see Girl Daddy on this

list, frankly. Fire baby, she was pretty.

Good. She was good.

That's right. Those are all horses that

carried over to the three-year old year, but also won the

Pocahontas in September. Yeah.

And so I just, I wonder because I don't think of frankly, I've

had a joke forever, if I ever get wealthy and actually owned

horses as opposed to paying for my children to eat food.

If I had a successful 2 year old, I would, I would sell it

after it won anything just because I'm not at all sure it's

ever going to develop. Just get the money now.

Now I think that happened this summer, like 100K sale.

The horse won a $2,000,000 race in Kentucky.

Now that is what it is. But I, I just, to me, it's, it's

especially on the cold side. If they have a great summer as a

2 year old, get the bleep out, Just move on, do something else.

I don't know. Maybe that's just me.

I would love to know. Peter, where you at?

What are you doing? Nothing.

I know. I.

Would be Derby Derby dreaming. There's no way you're pulling

that horse. I get it, I get it.

I would like to think that Mcpeak of course has won this

race I think 6 times. His first one with Dothraki

Queen in 2015 takeaways from her.

She was the the runaway winner of the.

Weekend yes I don't know how strong this field was behind her

there were quite a few maidens in this race but she handled

everybody that was in there the way a good horse should handle

it if if if she's over matching them she came in off of you know

a win at Saratoga. I believe I believe it was a

maiden optional claiming coming out.

I don't believe she was in for the tag but.

She she was in a race that was meant to be on the turf.

It was taken off of the turf at 7 furlongs and she ran it.

So frankly, the distance part of it is not the surprising part.

Going from 7 to 8 furlongs ain't what we're concerned about here.

It's how she did it, man. And I don't care how bad the

field is. You went by over 5 lengths and

you do it in a manner where you know, we're talking about she's

sitting right off the pace. It's a fast one, sub 23, sub

some 45 and three. They rate 45 and two in this

race. They come around in 110 and two.

That's a nice pace. That is a very good pace.

This puts her firmly in my mind in the conversation for the

British Cup Juvenile Phillies. Yes, No question.

Yeah. Because of this, I think if you

ask, I read who are you riding in that race?

He says, this is my Philly. I don't think it's even a

question. Yeah, and she won with something

left too. So you.

Know gallop out, like, I don't know if you saw the interviews

right after at Churchill with Ashley Anderson, who's doing a

really nice job there. She was like, how was the

Galapagos? Oh yeah, She's she's good.

Yeah, yeah. That's exciting.

Though she she's an exciting Philly to look at moving

forward, it'll be you know, she's going to be she's probably

be one of those horses that again, might get a little

overlooked in the Breeders Cup because people are going to look

at the field that she'd be here. You mentioned how, you know, she

was six to one in this race. You mentioned how she was in

that off the turf race last time, which you could a lot of

people might question, you know, what is she running against

there when they come off the turf?

So you could potentially get a decent price on her in the

Breeders Cup Juvenile Phillies if they go that way.

And she definitely in this race, she was visually impressive in

this race. So we'll see if she can keep

building upon it. Taken by the Wind is the first

graded stakes progeny of Rock Your World.

Yes, which is interesting. So Rock Your World's only a

$5000 stud fee right now. We pick from 2021.

OK, Good job. And then he didn't get out of

the gate. Barry Core wrecked you and I had

the same Derby pick coming out of that saying they need a

Derby. Of course, a Son of Candy ride,

right? So we see these horses do lots

of different things, do the candy rides, right?

So it's not surprising that Mcpeak would have tried it at

first, carted her for something on the grass, right, and then

gets washed off. It's still a candy ride.

Go ahead and run her, right? And she wins.

And then she does this in the Pocahontas.

It's interesting once in a while when you hear or, OK, we haven't

heard from Candy Mcpeak. When you see that very clearly,

they were going to try this horse on the turf, but it just

worked. And he's like, OK, let's get

going. Like.

He doesn't. Go this route now.

It's fun to watch those puzzle pieces come together in a way

like this. And I don't know, Rock'n'roll,

maybe, maybe get it now with my bread.

It might not be available coming up soon here.

But no, it's interesting watching, you know, because it's

an empire maker on the on the damn side.

Yeah. You know, So this is she.

I don't know. I think she can grow up.

I think we might have seen something on Saturday.

Yes, I think we might have, OK. A horse that won a race that I

think is very consequential was on Saturday at Woodbine and

notable speech is off to the the mile at the Breeders Cup by

winning the Woodbine Mile and it was in very Bill Buick sit the

trip, put the horse in the solid position, make the move to get

outside almost almost too easy, but you go back and watch it.

It wasn't that it was an easy trip.

It's that Bill Buick's that good yes, and this horse takes cues

that well. The reason I bring this up as

consequential as the following the last two times that Bill

Buick won this race was with Master of the Seas and Modern

Games. Do you know what they have in

common? That both won the Breeders Cup

on. That is correct.

OK, so they both have those things.

What's interesting is if you remember, Modern Games won that

at Keeneland. That was the return to Keeneland

after the 2020 COVID one got pushed back and some of us got

to go to that, many of us didn't.

But then it gets back to Keeneland in 2022, Master of the

Seas, he ran that horse at Keeneland.

It finished second in October and then goes out to sanity and

then goes ahead and wins the. So there you go.

Something to watch with notable speech.

I don't know if that horse is coming down here to Kentucky,

but something to watch. I don't know, maybe they learn

to not get beat by not get beat by a nose and they'll go

straight out to California. This time, just get out.

There, but there's also there's no up to the mark this year so

that can beat them so. Why not take a shot?

It is what 3? Weeks.

Three weeks away yeah, it's really soon but it'll be

interesting to see what the route is for this.

But when you see Bill Buick and UC Charlie Appleby shooting for

the Woodbine mile that means they have a a breeders cut mile

horse. Yes and that's what notable

speech is this year. Anything about that race to

change your mind? No, I never think I saw that He.

He's going to be tough and whether whether they stop at

Keeneland, whether they go straight through to Delmar, he's

going to be tough in that Breeders Cut mile for sure.

The Americans that are in that race and any other Europeans

that come over are going to have their hands.

Full. Yeah, no, for sure.

Can you name the last back-to-back winner of the

Woodbine Mile? Well, not now, since you clicked

away from the script. That's the idea.

I don't think I can in the last back of that winner.

Why Stan? Oh, I should have done.

That that is a race with a stunning amount of prestige.

I mean, it's a an extremely prestigious race.

So shout out to all the folks up at Woodbine.

It was a great day of racing. And you even got, you know, what

was interesting? I was I was following along a

friend of mine, JD Fox is a big Woodbine guy and so I find

myself getting caught up in it because he sent me texts all day

and that which I love. Of course you have that buddy

that's like a like a into a track that you're not into.

But on their big days, you're getting all the text and you

have to respond. I love that kind of stuff.

But he but essentially the Caitlin, her greatness, she also

won and then two late races later you get notable speech

winning and then like an upset in the middle.

If you just gone single all single, it would have cost you

like 2 bucks and you still out of 20 cent pick three got back

like 11 bucks. Nice.

So it was, I mean there it was 55 O one on that pick three.

Like that's with notable speech. That's good, Caitlin or Greg.

So you had a bunch of really, really nice payouts up there at

Woodbine over the weekend as well.

I kind of wanted to bring up two others that are in that 2 year

old group, especially coming out of Del Mar, because Branch is

going to be the West Coast favorite coming out of that

group. Where do you think of him and

relation to the Kentucky runners?

So if we talk about spice runner, if we talk about

Comport, I would have Brant a step ahead and above, I'll be

honest, but not a huge step this year.

And and last year, I think we were a a stumble in the gate

away from a Kentucky horse being near the front and being part of

the equation last year. But of course, Citizen Bowl

getaway card. There's no there's no there's no

critiquing how they ran. It was perfect set up for them,

but they took advantage. Yeah, I think Brent can

absolutely do that this year. Yeah, I think he could

definitely do that this year, I think.

I think both he and I also want to.

Bring up a technology out there. Yeah, fair enough.

Saratoga probably the best from new.

York and I'm also interested to see how Ewing does stretching

out here in the Breeders security.

So right now I still kind of I have the New York and the brand

out in California. I have them kind of still in

that top spot. I don't know if I put comport

and spice runner up there yet or not.

You know, they've run against each other in the last two

times. the Breeders Cup will be a good test to see kind of where

they stack up. I'm not sure we've really seen

the best that Kentucky's going to have to offer yet, and I

think we might start. Seeing that.

Here we'll see it at Keeneland, the Breeders charity, we'll

start seeing these maiden runners and allowance runners at

Churchill Downs and and at Keeneland throughout the next

few months. And I think, I think the Street

Sense and the Kentucky Jockey Club at the end of November, I

think those are going to be kind of where we really see where

where are the Kentucky engine stands at least as the. 2 year

olds this year. I felt like 2 years ago when we

were at Santa Anita for the Breeders Cup, I had a tougher

time handicapping from that short stretch.

Keeneland British Futurity and the one turn mile at Churchill

going into that traditional longer stretch that Santa Anita

has a lot like Churchill. Looks a lot like Churchill Del

Mar though with that short stretch.

I really felt like you could use the Futurity with that shorter

stretch of the mile and a 16th. And of course you can use the

Del Mar races and then last year the Del Mar races.

Yeah. So I, I, I do think, I think

that part matters, but I want to be really clear.

When the last time it was at Del Mar before that, I think was

when Corniche won, right? Oh, good point.

Yes, right. The West Coast horses, those Del

Mar horses have had the advantage in this.

Race seems to work out that way, but I want to be really clear.

I would not be surprised if a Kentucky based and or it's had

an off E type or Ewing even won the race at all like 0%.

But I I think that's it is setting up that Friday Breeders'

Cup. I don't know if there's going to

be a Lake Victoria again this year, if they're going to ship

over one for like the juvenile Phillies turf that way.

But I I'm starting to get really excited about that Friday.

And I don't know if it's because of this show and us really

paying attention to the talking about it more.

Yeah, right. I don't know if it's just

general exposure to it or if it's just a really fun 2 year

old. Like there's, there are

superstars in all of the major circuits.

Yeah, that's great. It's a competitive group.

Legitimately great. It's yes No, that's exactly

right. And, and, and so, you know, the

best things that can happen is we just get the, we get great

horses in every division. And I think we're getting a lot

of that ahead of the Breeders Cup, I think for what, 6 1/2

weeks out, yeah. Well, Speaking of great horses

in different divisions, so we haven't talked about Ben

Tornadoes when? That's good point.

Actually, I was very impressed with that.

OK, Can we talk about something with this?

And I know this is a blood horse product.

So this is Louis Robot speaking for Louis Robot.

Not like, but like I saw people calling that a soft spot because

it wasn't a great at stakes. I mean, this as nicely as I can.

Let's say $300,000 race and people are chasing money now.

Yeah, they just are. Then Tornado went up.

Skelly's a nice horse, man. Yeah, that's a great at stakes

horse. Like these are his competition

in that group was not some like black type it.

No, I'm not even going to mention another jurisdiction.

So that's a black type at a regional track.

This was a $300,000 race to Churchill.

Now, yes. And he?

Was easily the best. That was part of why I was so

impressed because a lot of these horses in the field, you know,

being at Churchill Downs all the time, I've watched a lot of the

most of this field run multiple times.

I've seen them all kind of be competitive with each other.

I've seen them beat up on each other.

And that's a it's a solid group of sprinters that we have in

these these kind of races here in Kentucky.

And you hear me saw him just. Like 20 to one of these races

and that's a good. Spreader like this.

He's a great 3 winner and he always shows up every time.

And I mean been tornado handled them like it was nothing in this

spot. That was a S that was like, you

know, the best group of sprinters that we have here in

Kentucky. And he handled it like it was

nothing. And it was his first start in,

what, almost 11 months. And so, yeah, he he was ready to

go. I know I talked to his trainer,

Jose DeAngelo, out of Saratoga in the summer.

He was ready at that point, but they were waiting for the spot

because that was the best, best spot to run in.

Here. I think they, I think from what

I heard post race that they are even, well, they're even

thinking about, you know, maybe running them back at Keeneland,

potentially in the Phoenix before they head out to to

California. I'd heard that at some point,

but but you know, he's cut, he's came back strong.

He was a horse that was really overlooked last year going into

the Breeders Cup because you know, he had he went out to

Saudi and ran third against Forever young and book him Dano,

which look what they've turned into since then.

And then he kind of cut back or when he came back, kind of took

him a couple of months. But he had a really strong win

in the Gallant Bob Stakes on Pennsylvania Derby day that

actually made me like him a lot going into the Breeders Cup

Sprint. He ran huge in the Breeders Cup

Sprint, only losing by 1/2 length to Straight No Chaser at

28 to 1. So this he it when it when we

get when we get to the point where he's consistently, you

know, running, you know, a full campaign, this could be the best

sprinter that we have in this country.

Do you know what I like about Saturday was last year we

watched him get the five furlongs and then straight, no

Chaser just blew by him. Yesterday he didn't do that or

on Saturday he didn't do that. No, he the six furlongs wasn't

too much. I, you know, just a couple weeks

ago we were talking about Coppola who's in the Romans barn

and he's A5 furlonger. That's all he can do.

He's done at 5. He needs like 5 and like 110th

furlongs that straight like that kind of thing.

He just needs to stop at five. I was worried about that for Ben

Tornado. I'm not anymore.

No. He showed on Saturday that he's

ready. He's ready for the.

Next. Yeah.

And I was, I was out there watching him train at Churchill

in the week leading up to it. He looks strong.

He looks ready. He did not look like he was

coming in off the this long, long layoff.

He's only going to prove now that he's got the race under his

belt. I like this horse a lot.

I was getting text messages from people after the race saying did

we just see the Breeders Cup Sprint winner?

And I'm I might be on that bandwagon right now.

We'll see who ends up showing up in the starting gate.

But I'm pretty, I like the way that he ran.

I like the way that he looked. I think he's going to be a big

player in this division now that he's rolling.

A really, really good opening weekend there at Churchill

Downs. All dirt racing.

Yeah, I know. I did think about that part of

the way through the day. I was like, wait a second, all

five of these stakes are on the dirt.

Over the whole car. Yeah, How about that?

Got a maiden claimer. Too bad.

All right, let's bring in Frank Angst.

He's been covering the sale for us here at Blood Horse.

bloodhorse.com. Of course, the sales tab at the

top of the homepage. You can go check that out right

now. The biggest sale going on

Keeneland September. Busy, busy Frank, but the trends

continue. Yeah, and I mean, I have to say

Olivia Newman is definitely leading the charge.

I mean, I've I've walked around for for a bit last week, but

it's Sean and Olivia and Byron King.

They are doing the the heavy lifting over the sale, but I did

for my dollars and cents column kind of sit down and look at the

numbers today and it's so impressive.

I mean, we've seen the top in the market do pretty well for

several years now. Not like this like this is

shattered those records, but it just keeps carrying down to to

each book, each session is setting a record.

So we're we're seeing more depth and it'll be interesting to see

what we see this week. If that continues, that'll be

really encouraging for the industry in terms of it just

shows a lot of interest in in racing and breeding right now.

I was going to ask you are when you talk to owners, are they

excited about the prices knowing that generally speaking if you

have one that turns out the prices just go up because of

that or is it more of a this is just the price of doing business

essentially? I mean, you occasionally hear

people that say, I wish the prices were lower, which I get

that if you're looking to buy, but I, even those people I think

realize if prices are going up, then the horses that I already

have are worth more money. So I think in general you always

want to see it go up, the brick breeders especially, you know,

I, I think there's inflation everywhere.

So it makes a certain amount of sense that that accounts for a

little bit of this. But I, I really think the

investment has been put in by the industry.

I mean, first of all, Kentucky's made this huge commitment to

purses. They've found ways to fund these

purses largely through HHR things that Keeneland is doing

with their sales bonus program. So there's just been a huge

commitment to purses. So Kentucky's kind of circled

the wagons and said we're we're going to make sure Kentucky's in

go to order. And it's led to record sales now

that Keeneland has already set the record for this year.

So they still have 6 sessions left.

So every, every horse that sells will set a new record, if you

want to put it that way, for the rest of the sale.

So that's three of the past four sales now.

Kingland sales have been records.

So I think you start with that. There's a lot of understanding

in Kentucky and everywhere else in the industry that let's find

ways to take that success to to the other regions now.

So we'll see what happens on that.

Blood Horse is going to be part of a Jockey Club and TOBA are

going to have a conference in November addressing ideas that

can work for for different regions.

So we're excited about that. Anyway, you start with that, I

think then you look at NTRA and the industry efforts to get the

100% bonus depreciation made permanent.

Previously that was a tax break that owners could count on, but

it kept having to get renewed every so often.

Now it's permanent. You can put it in your planning.

You can find a business plan that works for you.

Just so very important for everyone involved.

And I also think the commitment to safety that's been made

industry wide, both before HEISA and now the Heisa's in place.

You can't just keep taking lumps on the chin through through

people who want to run down the industry.

A lot of times it's not necessarily fair, but you know,

we've said, well, we'll meet you on your own ground and we have

the numbers now. It's the safest in recorded

history. It's the safest years we've ever

had in North America. And I think more improvements

coming. So you, I think there's three

things are the, I think those are the biggest factors.

So it's a it's a really good place right now that racing's in

and breeding. Frank Angst with us.

Bloodhorse.com, of course, for everything that he's working on,

including that dollars and cents conversation and that article

that he puts up all the time. I wanted to ask and you and you

mentioned it already. We heard from Greg Justice last

week about the Indiana program and of course we talked with

Rachel as part of that show. But the New York sale that

happened earlier in the year at Saratoga, I know the phasic

Tipton sales are a very limited, you know, limited book and and,

and days and all of those things.

But the New York sale after that was also record setting.

Are we seeing a trend here where the states that are running

these programs while also having really good luck at their sales?

Yeah, I know New York's tweak some things on their bonus

program and you know, you know, they there's horses in the New

York program. Quite a few of those mayors go

to Kentucky sires every three years.

I think it is, but but know that the bottom line that was

encouraging because that was a regional sale that did very

well. So that that's another indicator

that this goes beyond just your into Mischief's top, you know,

$1,000,000 type horses that it go.

It's a it's a deeper level here of interest.

And of course, the flight line babies.

How? How's the buzzer on the flight

line, babies? Well, you know, and I mean I

just have those first proper yearling just makes such a big

impression. He made just this huge

impression on the track. You know what they just

everything he did and closing out with the just dominating

Breeders' Cup Classic and then the excitement of that 2 1/2%

sale that his ownership so. Such a great idea.

Yeah, it's just been one thing after another with Flightline.

So you have these established sires that are just right in

their wheelhouse right now. The not this time, the Gun

Runners, the Into Mischiefs, the curlings, and then you have a

horse like Flight Line. Come on with that first crop.

That's certainly a powerful combination as well.

Well, you mentioned earlier, you know some of these things that

are really helping to maybe motivate some of these buyers,

some give them confidence in the industry.

And you know, one of the big problems in the industry that

we've had for a while is the declining full crop.

How can we see kind of the success of the sales here and

how much money that breeders could potentially get here at

the yearling sales? How could we see that kind of

transition into more people breeding more mares?

Yeah. I mean that that's probably a

factor too, is there's not as many horses, so there's a bit

more demand. But you hope at some point

people realize I want to be a part of that, and as more people

want to be a part of it, the Breeders will meet the need for

that. You know that demand.

Is there a world in which? That's the next step for sure.

Is there a world in which these rising purses in different

places can actually increase breeding?

I mean, is there a world in which that exists?

Oh, for sure. I mean, I think you see it

clearly in Kentucky. I mean, you see the type of

doesn't hurt the timing of the Kentucky downs meet.

You see those millions of dollars giving away and now it's

like, oh, you know, there's, there's several ways I can get

my money back here, you know, and, and, and keep this going.

I mean, I think most owners just want to stay in in the black or

they'll even accept a certain amount of red if they get an

enjoyment out of it. But you don't want to take a

bath on this constantly. So you can kind of see how how

it can all work in Kentucky with those types of purses.

Now when we're we're looking at the top of the markets doing so

well, but the middle and the bottom of the market as well.

You know you might find people that are looking to pin hook or

something like that who are maybe paying a little bit more

than they typically would or than they thought they had to.

Can we expect this kind of success of the market to carry

over to when these horses start getting pin hooked at the 2 year

old sales? Are people going to be able to

make their money back? I mean, yeah, that's, that's the

hope for sure. And it and it's been AI would

say it's been occurring the last few years.

You know, Keeneland kind of sets the market and then it carries

all the way through and the fact that people keep coming back at

that initial starting point, if you will, of the Keeneland

yearling sale, not there's that. I mean there's tons of terrific

yielding sales, but it's the largest.

So I think it's the one that kind of sets the market and it's

the starting point and it's the way I view it.

Are we going to go buy a horse now?

That's a fair question. No, I don't need to sell my

house to have one horse. That's essentially.

I'll ask answer your question from earlier.

Yeah, so I I think you got to say Curlin puts obviously he was

already on the map, but that was I mean, he's a classic winner

and placed in all three classics and then went on to 4 year old

success as well. But I will also say this.

So I'm going to play by the size of the coin.

Steve has had a lot of the gun runners and he takes a lot of

pride in those gun runners continuing to to do well.

And we didn't even mention Rachel Alexandra, which I get

you didn't do her initial training, but picked her up and

had her biggest scores with the the Preakness and the Woodward.

So. Yeah, you don't win that many

races for no reason. That's exactly right.

But Frank eggs with us from Blood Horse and bloodhorse.com.

Go check out the the site over there how we get the first

graded stakes winner for Rocky World.

I thought that was kind of cool over the weekend.

Yeah, I mean it's that's the best thing about racing is they

just keep coming along. There's always a new story,

always a new stallion, a new winner.

So it's one of the things we love about the sport and the

more you put into it, the more it's kind of rewarding kind of

what you were saying about the 2 year old division.

It's the just the more you dig into and focus on any one thing

in racing, I think there's just more layers to peel and and more

fascination. I think it's one of the best

things about our sport. Yeah, Were you like Sean and me

and giving him out as as a tout ahead of the 2021 Derby?

I hope not. What?

Did you give out Rock Your World ahead of the 21 The 21 Derby?

If I did, I don't recall that one.

I would lie too. Frank we're we're one prep race

down who's on top of the. Derby.

Oh, let's go, Frank inks. Derby, he's got Comport still.

I I believe in him. He's going to.

I love Tyler. I'll sit that one out for this

one. Oh man.

That we could play back in May with my horse wins next year.

So at the, at the state awards last week, one of the Breeders,

one of the award-winning breeders of bread Speed King and

I mentioned that he was my initial Derby whore on my first

3 year old poll that I turned in, I think I had him #1 and

turned to Michael Banahan. And I was like, sorry about

that. I, I should have added that our

racing editor though our, that our news editor, Byron King, who

does the, who does the Derby dozen have sovereignty #1 from

his very first column to his very last one.

So go with Byron. I would say on things like this,

he he's the one that's watching his 2 year olds and then

three-year olds extremely closely.

All right. And of course, we always ask you

about the magazine. What are we working on in the

magazine this spot? Yeah.

So last week we talked about the feature on the farms.

I know that we also have upcoming that Bobby Halt had

looked at the champagne steaks and the history of that race and

its success as well. So.

Fantastic. Little Bobby E Why not?

Yeah, man, Frank, you should have been there, buddy.

I got to tell you. So Sean and I, we roll up.

We're doing the Haskell thing. Little Jersey in the middle of

the summer. Oh, yeah.

Little Jersey Shore. Little, little, little, you

know, little grandma style pie and all the good stuff, Right.

And we're hanging out and, you know, we feel like big shots

because we know Matt Dinnerman, you know, we're hanging out.

OK Carlos Morales is there. All the big shots.

Yeah, we thought. And then Bobby Hall walks in and

it's like Bob sits down, he's holding the court, they pull the

chair out. He's got that, that he's got

that throne at at Monmouth. I don't know people know about

that. It's a crowd Bobby Hall

dominate. So there you go.

You can check him out in the magazine as well, the QR code at

the bottom of the screen there on YouTube or on Spotify,

wherever it is that you are hanging out.

Yeah, it's terrific to have Bob on site for so many of the big

races in New York. It's we're really glad to have

him and he he does a terrific job.

Yeah, he's as good as they get for sure.

Bob and Byron and Frank and Sean and many others.

Olivia Newman, of course, with the sales available at

bloodhorse.com. Of course, check out the sales

tab, the magazine tab, the daily tab, whatever might be, all of

them available at the top of the homepage.

Appreciate you, Frank. Talk to you next week.

Thanks guys there. You go, Frank, hanging out with

us. There you go.

Is Rachel the best job? Is that?

Is that like the the final conclusion of the Steve Asmussen

conversation? I don't think.

I think we decided. Is that the poll, by the way?

Do we ask people? Give us the three?

Who's the best? Steve Asmussen.

Training. Carlin, Rachel Alexandra, or Gun

Runner. I think we put it up.

Go ahead, comment wherever you're watching, Spotify,

YouTube, whatever you're doing, Go ahead, put your comments on.

We'd love to hear from you or on X, whatever you want to do or

whatever is. It Spice runner, we'll find out

why. Is it Spice Runner?

No, it's not Spice Runner. Settle down.

But yes. You say that now just you wait a

couple months, so I have to wait and see.

Journalism that ever took a horse in the country still, I'm

sure according to the people who hang out with this show.

So they. Yeah, no, it's it's fun to look

back at great, great training. I mean, Steve's a great trainer,

right? I mean, no question about it.

And just the sheer volume of horses is I don't know, I don't

understand it. I don't understand, Like Texas,

New Orleans, you know, Arkansas and Kentucky all at the same

time in New York, like 10 runners a day.

Like I, I don't know how he does it.

I just, I simply don't understand the mechanics of it.

But to look at the very top of what they've trained, I still

have built in because I'm jealous.

Steve's hair flopping after Gun Runner wins the classic look he

could give. Steve has more hair on his head

right now than I've had my whole life put together Right now,

right now, in this moment, wherever he is, shout out to

Steve. Steve's a keep on.

That's right by the next gun runner.

So there you go All right, man, all right, Sean.

So we don't want to leave this episode of the show an

abbreviated episode. How about that?

People cannot get back to their their days after this one.

Make sure you do comment on your.

Favorite. That's before we get stuck on a

topic for the next 20. Minutes.

You know what? That's a good job by you.

But the Pennsylvania Derby and Cotillion are this weekend, both

grade ones, both for three-year olds on the cold side, of

course, on the Philly side with the cotillion.

And this is a reminder of the depth of the three-year old

class this year, that this is who we get in the Pennsylvania

Derby. And there's no sovereignty and

no journalism. And it's still very much a great

10. Yes.

Very much a great 1. So Goskers in here who of

course, if you remember, we saw both in the Belmont or excuse

me, in the Haspel and in the the pregnant states.

Excuse me running second in that race, getting caught by

journalism at the very, very last second, costing me much,

much money. Apparently that's what this this

episode's about is me not hitting.

Bets, I know you should have warned me who you're betting on

on. Yeah, on.

Saturday, so I can bet on everybody.

Else I'll, I'll let you know in a second, but we get gospel in

here. We get Baeza, who is still

eligible for non 2 lifers. OK, he's going into this one,

which is insane. Boplex is in here, obviously the

Grade 3 Ohio Derby winner. OK, we get big trust in here.

The Ellis Park Derby winner. OK, this is what I'm talking

about. And the Iowa Derby winner.

And the Iowa Derby winner in magnitude.

OK, so we've got all of these kinds of horses in here go

oriented. Obviously you talk about, you

know, because I've seen people and this is the Internet

complaining about the degraded one, the grade one status of

this race and blah, blah, blah. Go away.

This is a great one. Yeah.

It's just this. Yeah, let's go on.

Anybody you're looking forward to the most here I'm.

Really looking forward to Gozger here.

I feel like, I feel like the two big, obviously there's quite,

there's a lot of good horses in this race and there's quite a

few of them that I think could win.

But I think the big two headliners in this race are

Baeza and Gozger just because of their success in the Triple

Crown races. Yeah, of course.

And you know, all summer when people talk about the top of

this division, and I'm talking about like when we talk to

trainers about the top of this division, I would always mention

it's, it's the big three. It's sovereignty, journalism and

Baeza, which that was the way they ran in the Derby.

It was the way they ran in the Belmont.

Baeza was second again, the sovereignty in the Jim Dandy.

And then the two times journalism ran against

three-year olds, not against sovereignty after the Derby, he

won. So those are the big three.

Oscar gets left out of that conversation.

I agree too much. And he almost won the freakness.

He almost won the high school. He's journalism being a freak

for the last 50 yards of a race away from being a two time Grade

1. By the way, he won, he won the

Grade 3 Lexington, yes. He he has a great at stakes,

yes. Right.

And so he he's he's he's kind of the horse in the division right

now that I feel like is not. We all know that he's good, but

I feel like he's not getting the respect that he deserves for the

reason. He also needs to go do.

It he does, but he. Is still 2nd.

It is, but he has done it. He's proven that he can compete

with the top of this level and this is the race.

This is the race where he can get the win and he's going to

be, I think a lot of people are going to be looking at by ASA in

this race. I think this is a the way this

race typically shakes out. I think works well for what

Gossgar does, his running style kind of being up behind the

pace. I think this is a race that

really sets up for him and we'll see if Baeza, you know, I feel

like Baeza we a lot of times we kind of assume it.

Well, if journalism and sovereignty aren't there, he's

going to win. We only seen this horse actually

cross the finish my first once in his career.

And so we'll see what he can do without them.

I'm, I'm really looking forward to both these horses having the

opportunity to try to prove that they can shine when those two

are gone and then set up for maybe they're going to be the

hot horse going into the Breeders Cup a month from now.

They're going to be the ones that are, you know, kind of

they're going to have that prep race.

They're going to be ready to go while the other two are coming

in on a little bit longer rest potentially and see if maybe

they can, maybe they can change the change, change the script

here at the end of the year. Of course, last year's winner

sees the Gray had won the Preakness before that.

Off to stud, of course, as a son of arrogate.

No more Arrogate means that his son's, of course, probably off

to the shed that way. He tried the Breeders Cup Mile,

Dirt Mile, excuse me, before he retired.

I'm interested actually, and not because they've been on the show

with Flying Dutchman. I think Big Truss is actually

really interesting in the second part of the year, just because I

think the mile in the Ellis Park Derby wasn't everything that he

has. This is the son of Justify.

I think he can absolutely push through, get the mile in an

eighth, no problem. I'm very interested to see him

this weekend. I'm sure Tyler's making the trip

for that one. The other one that I'm I, I

don't know what to do with is magnitude because we know when

that horse, if anyone's going to do the seize the Gray thing,

it's going to be magnitude on Saturday, right?

Get the lead, keep it. Just run away.

Do the thing. Right.

And but we just watched what happened at Saratoga.

He lost by 20 lengths. Yeah, 22, zero.

Yeah. It's that.

It's a lot of legs, Sean. Yeah.

Which is in case anybody's keeping score at home, it's an

8. 100 miles further this time. Does that have sovereignty?

Does that matter? I do think it matters a little.

Bit both of those things for sure.

Matter. How much though?

I don't know. I, I mean, we've said it on the

show before. I have not always been the

biggest believer in magnitude, OK, dating back to his Risen

star. You know, you look at his Risen

star. He fall in love with speed

figures. And they, I know they follow the

speed figures. He was a huge long shot in that

race. He hadn't really, you know, won

too much in the races before. And, you know, like the that

race shaped out kind of weird. He ended up loose on the lead

and he ran into it. He disappears for a couple

months. And because he was the one horse

that wasn't present, he kind of gained the reputation as, Oh

well, wait till he comes back. And then he came back against

maybe a questionable field in the Iowa Derby and wins that the

way he should have. And then when he had to step up

against Sovereignty, he did and Bracket Buster took it to him on

the far turn and ran right past it.

And so, and I mean, we've seen how bracket Buster stacks up

against the likes of Oscar and goal oriented.

We saw that in in the Haskell. And so, you know, I don't know

exactly where magnitude stands here.

So if he wins, I won't be the most shocked person in the

world. But I'm I'm going to stay off

with him in this race and see I'm I'm expecting big runs from

Baeza. I'm expecting big runs from

Goskar. I expect Moplex to run better

this time. I don't.

I don't think he's going to have to in the Jim Dandy kind.

Of high magnitude with Jim Dandy, you are, yeah.

Well, Magnitude wasn't in the Jim Dandy or Moplex.

Yeah, I'm taking, yeah. Moplex.

You said Moplex. I did some Plex OK.

Moplex in the Jim Dandy kind of got sacrificed to be the leader

because everybody was a closer. So fair enough.

He's not going to have to deal with that this OK, and because

magnitude's probably going to be the one up on the league and so

I think Moplex is going to get be able to work out a little bit

of a better trip. Looks like he's in the far

outside gate gate #10 here. So we'll see what he can do from

there. I'm excited to see him.

I'm excited to see goal oriented and big trust in this race which

and now that I'm looking at the post positions, I realize like

they're all right next to each other.

On the outside, so I'll take six through 10.

Yes, 6. Through 10 here, please I'm I'm

betting on the outside halfway see if we ever if we can get

like, you know, the kind of fun sports sports bets on some of

these races where it's not always just picking right away.

Right, this is a very even number.

Well. This would be a good one.

Where is the winter going to come from?

The inside half of the gate or the outside halfway?

I'd love to bet on the outside half of the gate in this race

because all five horses that I'm looking forward to seeing are in

the outside 5 stalls. So bowler and it's going to win

this because we're not talking about them, right.

OK, just checking that's. All that's a key.

So on the gate alien side of things, we see some names that

have made this 3 year old filly year really special.

I mean, it's been awesome. And frankly, not just the ones

that are in here. I'm leaving out nitrogen and and

and oh gosh, her name ends with two NS and Fionn.

Excuse me as well on the turf for Brad Cox.

We saw those horses down at Kentucky Downs.

But we get the return of Lacara and good cheer in here.

And I am fascinated by a horse that you and I have seen in

person. Speaking of Brendan Walsh and

him bringing him, bringing Gosgro to this thing.

I think Kleco is low key the unknown of this crop.

Her win in the Indiana Oaks was so professional.

She got in that winner's circle, no big deal.

People didn't bother her, crowds didn't bother her, pictures

don't bother her. She's just a pro.

So I'm not worried about the travel.

I'm not worried about anything with Cleco.

My question for you, though, now that I have waxed prolatically

about Cleco, can good cheer get back to being good cheer here?

I think. So, OK, and I think she is back

to being good cheer. OK, I argued this after the

Alabama. I thought she ran a phenomenal

race in the Alabama and I thought that was a sign that she

was back. And I thought Nitrogen was just

a little better than her that day, so if.

Especially the mile and a quarter, Yes, she gets to go to

mile and 8th here. Yeah, I think that's a major

positive for good cheer for sure.

Lucard here. Back to mile and 8th, her

training kind of got a little a little screwed up because she

had to scratch from the CCA Oaks when they had that quarantine

thing. She had to scratch the day of

the race. And I know Mark Cassie had

expressed before the Alabama that he did wish that he had

that extra race going into it. So I don't know how much you can

really knock her for that Alabama performance, but you

know, this is her. I think on their best day, I

think good cheers better. OK.

I think on their best day, I don't Scottish Lassie might be

better. Scottish Lassie is the one that

I'm really keyed in on in this race.

I think that we haven't really seen the best of her yet.

And she was so impressive in the coaching club, American Oaks.

And it'd be great to see her two times where she's had to show it

against the top company was in the Breeders Cup out where she

had to ship all the way out to California.

But then the other one was in the Acorn.

But she didn't run bad. She was coming in off a long

second race, off a long layoff. She ran a solid second in that

race. And then she came and blew the

doors off the field in the coaching club of American Oaks.

I know Jorge Abreu, who's been eyed in on this race since the

CCA Oaks and he's going to be, she's going to be ready to go

come Saturday, so I'm excited. That's going to be a good race.

That cotillion always comes up to be a good.

It's always great. That's exactly right.

It's it is the grade oneiest of Phillies races after the

Alabama. Yeah, by far the grade oneiest.

I, I, I'd have to put, you know, obviously the Kentucky Oaks in

the Alabama, I think are the top 2-3 races.

I'd have to put the cotillion kind of close behind them at #3

the way at the field has been turning out the last couple of

years. Yeah, because you sometime,

well, you sometimes get, you know, in the Alabama maybe some

horses that don't run in it because of the distance or

whatever. Or like you think Torpedo Anna

last year skipped it to run the Travers.

But then all the top 3 old fillies seem to come back in the

catilli. And I know we're missing

nitrogen this year, but everybody else in this division

is here. Are we missing nitrogen?

I mean, that's going to be a good race that regardless.

No, but my point is, like, are we going to see her on the grass

again or something? I mean like she just ran.

I mean like I think so. I don't think we'll be missing

her for too much longer in the gallon bomb.

Can my boy Neo Aquos get it done?

Can can the finest man bun, chest hair combination and horse

racing. It's happy.

Joseph Junior, can he get it? Done.

I don't know. Well, right now he's successful

at Parks Math Wizard, bringing the 1st grade one a few years

ago. We'll go.

I've really. I've been a big donut guy.

Yeah, usually since his debut, I remember I actually put a Derby

future wager on him back then. Now he's running in the Gallup

Bob A6 furlong Sprint at parks a couple months after the Derby,

so you could see how well my future bet went on that.

But I do grow. I've always like. 4 furlongs

difference. Yeah, it's like half a mile

exactly. But so you could, but I he's one

that I've always liked and I do think he's really good around

one turn. I'm excited to see how he goes

in this race. I've been a big fan of him since

this sort. Well, good.

A couple of previews on my end of things this week.

Steve Kornacki will join me on the Horse Racing Happy Hour on

Thursday if you'd like to find that wherever you get your

podcast. Friday morning, Jessica back Out

who calls the races at parks will join me on ESPN Louisville,

1020 Eastern. Easy to find espnlouisville.com

if you're interested in either of those places as well.

I think that's it, man. And we powered through.

Yeah, still got the 50 minutes. Now I've.

Got to go around, I keep making you pizza before the show.

Do you like? That I do like OK that's very

nice pizza. It's a very nice addition

getting ready. I gotta figure out so I will be

at Pennsylvania Derby this weekend, yes, I gotta figure out

if I'm leaving tomorrow or if I'm leaving Thursday yet.

So. Are you driving?

Are you driving with them? Yes, I usually fly this one, but

I don't have this your home Derby.

This is my home Derby. I don't have any.

Pennsylvania bread. So that's right.

See these things I don't need to know about your parents.

That's all I'm saying. But I don't have anyone to drive

me down this year so I do have to take my own car so.

Are you going by yourself? Yeah.

What do you do on a 10 hour drive?

Like what does Sean Collins do? You know, listen to music, Think

about what racing. The usual.

Get out a phone call guy. Like call the buddy you know you

can talk to for an hour. You ever do that?

No, because you've never called me.

I know. Well, maybe tomorrow I'll give

you a call. I'm gonna call you from 10.

I'm gonna just keep. Ringing 40 minutes from L210.

At noon, and I'm gonna keep calling your phone while you're

on the radio. And then as soon as you get off

the year at noon, I'm gonna stop.

Calling you just just block Louisa.

That's a good man. Well, if you are heading east,

have fun at the keyboard sale, folks.

But I'm Lou Rabo. He shot Collins again.

Check out the magazine at the top of the homepage, at the top

of the screen there you can check on that.

And if you haven't signed up for the day, free e-mail to your

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