BH Monday | Paladin, Hong Kong Racing

It's December 8th and it's a Monday, which means it's time

for Blood Horse Monday. My name is Lou Rabbo alongside

Shaw Collins 6 for hanging out with us here.

Start your horse racing week the right way on Blood Horse Monday.

Shawn is back from the Arabian Peninsula.

We'll get into that later in the show.

But Sean, a quick recap of your trip, good or bad.

A letter grade for the trip to Abu Dhabi.

How about that? I'd definitely give it an A.

I'll give it. A little desert.

Time back in F cuz I went from from 80° in the desert with the

sand, the 20° with the snow here in Louisville.

So quite, quite a change over the last couple hours.

Not to mention my extended 7 hour stay in the Chicago O'Hare

Airport. History as well.

So. But yes, the trip to Abu Dhabi

itself, I'd give that definitely an A, an A plus.

Good stuff there for sure. Make sure you stick around.

Later in the show, you'll hear from Bob Kieffer as we get ahead

of some of the great stuff happening at Hong Kong and the

Hong Kong International races. Our Saturday night man, the

watch, the clash of local superstars there in Hong Kong

and international Raiders coming in.

It's Romantic warrior, it's Kai Ying Rising and it is Soul Rush.

It's Santano. Rev man, what a great line up

for you. First race, 1125 Eastern PM.

Of course, 825 Pacific Time. But you know what, Sean?

You know what else we have? We got a Derby trail to talk

about. That's what we got to talk

about. The Remsen was over the weekend.

We always make it about the Derby around here because Sean

is on this show. And a man who is always willing

to give us his time on this program is Brooke T Smith.

He joins us here on the program. Appreciate him always jumping in

whenever there is occasion. And Brooke, I have to say it is

remarkable how often you're in a good mood on this show because

your horses are doing good. Thanks.

How are you, friend? Yeah, still trying to figure out

what's going on here. I mean, look, Sierra Leone is

still very top of mind and I'd like to say that his book is

filled up remarkably fast and he's starting the next part of

his life and it should be a good one.

And then, you know, the way it works is made these great

friends with the lads, clearly their success and their their

history, everything speaks for itself.

You know, the arm was put around my shoulder pretty quickly after

Sierra Leone started running off the screen.

But also happily, right, that doesn't guarantee an invite back

again. And so the last couple yearling

sales cycles, we we went in and we purchased together again,

groups of of Colts that the class, let's just call it that

has Paladin. I think we bought 8 together

between Fasig and Keeneland. It seems like Fasig is a leader

in a clubhouse, especially with Paladin coming out of that same

sale and then this last year. I mean if it's working, why not

go go more? And so I don't know how many

yearlings we ended up with, but but it is working.

It is. There is a system, there is a

method behind the madness, I guess madness if I'm included.

But but yeah, so here we are again.

Just like, catch your breath and bam, Paladin.

What? What a run in the Remsen, huh?

Yeah, wins by a couple of lengths there.

Did Paladin at at Aqueduct, you win the last remsenant Aqueduct.

Was that was that meaningful for you?

Of course, I mean, I'm a sentimental type of guy and I, I

love these old crusty kind of race tracks that have been

around a long time and they, they were the foundation of a

lot of the stuff that we, you know, we, we enjoy today.

You can look at Pimlico, you know, there's tracks like

Hialeah that are gone. It's the Ellis and, and, and a

few of these others in there. Aqueduct.

I like being down the first floor and the second floor, just

kind of watching the locals. You know, it's going to be a bit

bittersweet for them. I mean, I don't see them

tracking over to Belmont and getting into the the new and

glitz as much, but there's some serious race fans there.

Yeah, hopefully they do. I, I hope you're hope you're

mistaken about that one and they do make their way over to

Belmont. But hey, this is one that, you

know, comes in on a one run. And in Paladin, what was the

conversation like with trainer Chad Brown about trying the

Remsen after the maiden special win there at Aqueduct?

Well, I mean, that's kind of the the, the, the progression of the

course. You could look back to Sierra

Leone, same kind of, you know, winds of maiden and then is in

the Remsen and a big duel at Thornock and then from there,

you know, to Florida and then maybe a very similar path if

everything continues to go well. Paladin was one that was being

talked about for sure. Gun Runner will bred obviously

good looking and you know, he ran a he ran a big first race.

He actually ran a bigger first race in Sierra and some of these

other Colts that have gone in the Remsen, you know, figure

wise and you know, different, different running style.

One it'll be a lot easier to watch, at least for me.

He likes to be up near the front and rate a bit.

And if you want to talk about buyers and ragazans and all that

type of stuff. Didn't know the figures that

came out of the Remsen. We're we're off from the first

race, but I think we can get overly caught up in that

sometimes. I mean, here he is coming off

one race. All those other horses, cults

that had, you know, a little bit more seasoning to him, you know,

going, going the two turns for the first time and you know,

you're still getting to know, know this, this cult clearly.

So even if he could have gone taken the lead and run off the

screen and won by 6:00 or so, you just don't know.

You don't know how they're going to react, what's going on.

You know how the brakes going to be.

Flavian did a great job, settled him in, laid off a couple horses

that were getting after it. And you know, he had to kind of

do the Sierra Leone wide swing and Renegades, you know, a

serious, serious cult. There's no question about it, as

well as several others in that field.

It was it was a really stacked field and there'll be others

that that maybe didn't finish first or second that we're going

to be hearing about, I'm certain.

But he he did everything right and it seemed to be, you know,

moving to his best at the end, which is what you want to see.

Seems like he can run and wouldn't say all day, but you

know, this isn't going to be a problem.

Definitely has tactical speed and I think you could tell that

he had a lot left. So he'll get a break in in South

Florida and very likely follow the same trail or trek as Sierra

Leone with the Risen Star and the Bluegrass.

But you know, one day at a time, he did come out of the race

wheel. He threw his shoe again, which

is which is kind of odd. I don't think there's anything

that's unique about his feet or, or the obviously the, the, the,

the blacksmith of the fairy is putting the shoes on and knows

what he's doing. So it's just kind of another

random thing, not ideal, but I think, you know, for him to run

as well as he did, even with that happening, is another

testament that he could be exciting.

Yeah. Well, it definitely sounds like

in the Remsen has been such a good predictor of success,

especially in recent years. And I think part of that's

probably that chance to run a mile in an eighth.

A lot of these other two year old races that we see at this

point in the Derby trail, we don't always know whether or not

these horses will be able to stretch out to those distances.

That's different with the Remsen.

We get an early glimpse whether or not they can handle it and

then imagine we're they're just going to get stronger as they

get older here. But you mentioned all the

adversity he went through with the losing shoe, Some of the

other things that have gone on throughout the race.

Just how much confidence does that give you moving into a

three-year old season that he's going to keep learning, he's

going to keep building off of that and continue to get better

and better? I mean, it's pretty easy to be

excited about him. We were in the paddock before

the race. You know, I handicapped trainers

as much as I do horses and Chad's great, but he was pretty

relaxed and I think Flavin was equally relaxed.

I think they were like, OK, we know we have something here,

just get in the race rate, you know, give him something to run

at. But then, you know, he didn't

have the greatest of trips and it wasn't a bad trip, but he had

to swing wide and dig in and and you know, the shoe flying off.

I guess so very excited. The prospects with him are good.

He's very sensible, you know, and again, I hate to continue to

compare to Sierra Leone, but you know, Sierra Leone was pretty

serious. You know, he, he wasn't, he

wasn't mean, but he, he definitely let you know if you

got up in his face that, you know, what's your, what's your

purpose? And this guy, he just seems, you

know, calm, cool and collected, I guess would be the best way to

put it. But the, the neatest thing about

the whole, the whole race really, and that's what's great

about horse racing is the fact that that Jane Lyon decided to

stay in for a percentage of the horse that she bred.

And you know what she's been able to accomplish as a as a

breeder, obviously a flight line, those kind of things, they

just don't happen. You have to have a great team, a

great eye. I think you have to have that

good feel and also just a the energy or vibe and, and being

around her. She's a classy, super classy

lady. I have, I respect her, her

ability as a horseman, horse woman immensely.

So to see her lead paled into the winner's circle was a really

cool moment. And then that's what horse

racing's about. So I'm excited for her.

I'm excited again to be a part of something like this.

I pinch myself everyday. Speaking of going into the

winner's circle, I know the Remsen from two years ago.

Sierra Leone probably stung quite a bit the way that that

ended up finishing. How good does it feel to now

have the Remsen checked off your?

List. I mean, again, I don't have a

dance card. It's like, let's check off these

big races. But I'll have to tell you, you

know, it was surreal. Just like all these things, you

just you cannot do anything except for really try to get

yourself in the moment. Because when you're winning

these kinds of races, there's a lot of race and luck and, and so

many different factors. You just I don't think it's sunk

in yet. You know, it's just like, wow,

OK. And then then to just all of a

sudden be thrown back into the the mix for conversation about

the, you know, the Derby. It is kind of neat when in the

last Remsen, you know, there at at Aqueduct.

I don't know if they'll change it to A1 turn.

There was a lot of discussion about that ends up at Belmont,

but just amazing. I mean, and I try to when I'm

when I'm in those moments, I try to look around and I try to just

take it in. I love to watch everybody.

It's associated with the horse, you know, hot Walker grooms,

whoever's over there and and you know, it's just again, if there

was any way to describe this better than I'm trying to do it,

I would love to, but it's it's magic.

Absolutely. Brooke Smith with us.

Brooke, last time I saw you, you had your arm around me and mine

around yours. And it was immediately after the

Breeders Cup Classic in the aforementioned Sierra Leone just

hit the board again because that's all he did in his career

was finish in the top three. Despite that, that nervous

running style, of course that made us all wait till the very

end of the race for him to do his best running.

And I wanted to open this, Brooke, by saying I appreciated

you being willing to talk with me from that walk from where you

had watched the race to the the olders enclosure.

At the close of that, Brooke, you said I'm going to have a

moment where I'm alone and I get a little teary eyed and I think

about what Sierra Leone is meant to be.

And I wanted to ask you, have you had that moment?

Well, just you saying that gave me goosebumps.

OK, so I I can't even imagine the association with a horse

like that and what he accomplished in his great

determination. He was really a unique and

special horse. You know that Steve is at

Haskins. I always want to add an S the

end of his name. Great, great rider.

You guys aren't sure know him. He did an incredible piece about

kind of the career of Sierra Leone, the treasure that of

Sierra Leone and his running style and, and you know,

everything about him won't be matched in my lifetime.

I don't care. I mean, I guess if you had a

horse that won a Triple Crown and all these types of things,

but they're still just that that that horse changed, changed my

life, my family's life more than just the excitement of of his

races. And I think he was good for

horse racing. A lot of people really more than

I think I realized got behind him and his running style.

And then to have those other horses stick around for their

four year old season. Yeah.

And I hope that's a trend as well.

But yeah, I I've had some moments as it relates to him.

You know, when I went over to Ashford and saw him for the

first time and just looked at him.

And I hope you guys get the opportunity.

Sean, I think you may have had a glimpse of him recently.

It's just, it's just history in the making.

Well, you mentioned the impact that he's had on your life.

He's also had the impact on quite a few other lives as well,

especially those on the backstretch at Churchill Downs.

He was part of the Purses for a Purpose program, which you're a

big supporter of, for the Backside Learning Center.

All the great work they do kind of helping all these backstretch

families get adjusted to life here in the United States.

Why is that an important program for you to get behind?

And then I'm certain Paladin's going to be part of that as

well, correct? Absolutely yes.

I think that program and and what the backside does for that

community for lots of reasons, especially now it's kind of

what's going on related to immigration and all these types

of things is is more important and vital than ever.

You know, we just, we just don't experience looking over our

shoulder and worrying about things the way that community

does. And so if in some small way, you

know, you talk about putting your arm around somebody'd

shoulder. If there's a way to support a

program like purses for a purpose and just throw a bit

more into the Kitty that hopefully create some

programming and makes life a little bit easier for those

folks that live a, you know, live a tough life because of

their passion for horses and horse racing.

I think it's it's super important.

I hope that there are more programs like that to develop.

I mean that the industry has lots of money right now.

People are spending, you know, record levels on on, you know,

purchasing horses and, you know, we just have to we have to keep

that spread around and and and keep the playing field, you

know, elevate those that get forgotten.

All that kind of stuff that I've said before.

And if if you ever get a chance to go to the backside of

Churchill, really anywhere but Churchill, because I'm here in

Louisville, their fundraiser is is great.

The families are there, the stories that's horse racing.

You know, these horses don't run, but, but for a minute or

two, maybe two in a, in a classic distance and there's a

lot of stuff that happens, you know, before they get to the

track and after they finish a race.

So incredible, incredible work by that Backside Learning Center

and, and there's other, there's other programs around a country

like that. Brooke Smith with us is a is a

horse. Paladin just won the the Remsen

Stakes, is on the road to the Kentucky Derby.

You mentioned something alongside Sierra Leone that

there were and we'll get you out of here on this alongside Sierra

Leone. There were others that came back

for their four year old seasons. And you, Brooke, are are more

than just an owner. You're a fan of the sport.

When you hear that forever young, the journalism, you know,

horses like Chunk of Gold are going to be back for their next

seasons. It's got to give you some hope

that we're going to see some of these older horses in the

handicapped division. Yeah.

I think so, you know, winning the Derby is a big deal, like if

if you're fortunate enough or having a big Derby run and

winning a few of the preps. But I believe there's a lot of

good sires out there too. So it's not just about the

sport, but these horses they need to to make themselves.

I mean, you know, winning the Whitney for Sierra Leone, I

think was a big deal And and and coming back and finishing second

the classic to an incredible forever young race.

I mean that that continues to develop his body of work.

Now there are horses, obviously they can't, can't withstand the

rigor of of that and they need, they need, you know, there's

decisions that have to be made because of their potential as a

sire. But hopefully that's a trend

that we'll all see. Super excited to have the

Breeders Cup at Keeneland and then Belmont.

So, you know, there's lots of reasons why these guys should

continue on and you know a lot of folks.

You know. The the, the races in, you know,

Saudi and Dubai, I mean, they're no joke.

Granted, they can tend to take a lot out of a of a horse, but you

know, you're racing for purses that are mind mind boggling.

And so all of that to say, I think we'll see more horses

running into their four year old careers.

I lied. We're going to get you out of

here on this. Sean loves hats.

Do you have a paladin hat for him yet?

I just. Yeah.

Just you wait. I can promise you there will be.

There will be, there will be Paladin hats.

Yeah, yeah. I sent a whole bunch of the

Sierra Leone hats to the gate crew up in New York.

And when I was in the paddock, they were like, hey, buddy.

And I'm like, get ready for the Paladin hat boys.

So anyway, but look, great stuff you guys do.

This stuff's fun. It's always, always exciting to

watch other people talk about, you know, their relationship to

the sport. And you guys are approaching

soon to approach your one year anniversary.

Your your old hat at this podcast stuff so good job.

Thank you, Brooke, and, and thank you for being part of it.

We mean it and, and, and hopefully we have a lot of

reason to talk to you in the spring.

Yeah, hats. Hats on deck.

There you go. Get the hats from Brooke Smith

there. Of course, part of the ownership

was Sierra Leone this year and Paladin moving forward as well

and many, many other horses. And hopefully a guy that we have

to interview when we get to the Derby draw.

Brooke, be well, have a good rest of the week.

All right, All right. Brooke Smith.

There you go. Is he the guy we've had on the

most that isn't Frank Gangst? Is that what's happened on this

show now? We do, and I would.

Brooke Smith Is he a? Couple times it's either him or

Aaron Wellman, yeah. Yeah, Wellman.

Yeah, journalism. I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I

got nothing of. Us and then he had accidentally

got another good horse so now now he's stuck with us for at

least a couple more months so there.

You go, hey man, I I run into him and Jason Worth on every

Derby draw the the next 10 years or something.

I'm good like that. Sounds great to me.

I'll take all of it for sure. We're going to see some

competition now. Who can stay in the Derby for

more consecutive years? Brooker, Jason.

Spectacular. I think that's a spectacular

wager that could be put together over the years that could

benefit the backside learning. So I'm just saying that's

something that could be done. I'm just holding out there.

There you go. So we can have all these great

guests on this show. Really appreciate Brooke joining

us here on Blood HORSE Monday. The Remsen itself, though, I

mean, there's no mistake in the performance, Sean.

It's as good as it was this weekend.

Yeah, it was a legit performance and I think that he lost a shoe

during that too, and. So sorry how good he is.

I, I, what I really liked from his performance was as they were

going around the far turn and the other horse was making that

big move on the outside. I liked how he sat.

He kind of got backed up a little bit, but he still stayed

relaxed and then pointed to the outside as Brooks, as Brooks

said that Sierra Leone kind of patented wide swing into the

stretch, which I guess we're going to have to officially

trademark that name or something, the Sierra Leone

swing something. But.

That that I liked that he was able to kind of sit.

He was going to take the dirt. He was able to make that move to

the outside and then kick on down the stretch without a shoe.

Hopefully he'll keep all those on in the future or maybe maybe

it's good that he's losing them in the races.

Maybe that's helping him out somewhat.

But I, I. Had shoeless Joe Jackson.

Do we get shoeless paladon? I think it's a real question.

I think all of us should debate it.

Is shoeless paladin better than shoe paladin?

I don't know, maybe it is, but I appreciate it.

Brooke also saying, I know these barriers know what they're

doing, so it's just obviously something going on with the

horse, yeah. Yeah, well, save, save Shoeless

Paladin for one of his kids. Oh man, that's a great point.

What who's the who's the dam on that?

Who's the dam on that kid, right?

I mean, what's the what's the the dam's name that we get to

shoeless? Who's the famous mayor running

that we man, we'll have to come up with that.

All right, Maybe comment on YouTube.

Yeah, right. Exactly.

I thought the I thought the win was very, very professional this

weekend. Winning at a mile and an eighth

puts him aim at this point in the year.

I think what the Risen Star would be the next mile in an

eighth race in the middle of February and then most, most of

the rest of them will come along starting in mid March going

forward. So he's ahead of the game at

this point. You've kind of checked that

question mark off for him and now he can get his little bit of

a break and then come back and run those big races leading into

leading into the Derby. Get that 50 point race and that

hundred point race and move on to Louisville.

It was interesting to hear Brooke talk about to the the

route that Sierra Leone took to the Derby and trying to

replicate that with Paladin. I'll be interested to see if

Brown just wants to do if Chad, you know, wants to do something

different that way where, hey, maybe the, you know, horse for

course at Aqueduct. Maybe you go the Wood Memorial

route and it just makes sense for that horse as far as

qualifying for the Kentucky Derby.

But hey, look, if he if he's telling it enough, it's probably

not going to matter where he goes, right?

If Balladin turns into another performance like that, whether

it's Fairgrounds, Keeneland or wherever, he's going to be fine.

Yeah, he's going to be fine wherever he goes, I think.

And that being that benefit to the Sierra Leone route as well

is not only do you get the grade one in the Bluegrass, but you

get the at that point, he would have run all three of his prep

races a different race track. So we know he can handle

travelling, we know he can handle shipping and he would end

up in Kentucky at the very end. And just a quick, quick little

van ride down to Churchill and he'll be ready to go at that

point, so. There you go.

Yeah, Just an interesting, interesting race there.

And of course, I mean the cool part with Paladin as far as the

breeding, Sean, and we talk about distance all the time.

We're always trying to figure out that 10 furlong thing by the

time we get to May here, Lowell, as you mentioned, the gun runner

on the puck on the sire side, you get to tap it on the damn

side. I mean, Sean, this is, I mean

when you talk about trying to set up a horse breeding wise for

this kind of this kind of spring, this is it.

Yeah, yeah. He's got the pedigree for it.

Gun Runner. We all know how great of a sire

he's been. It'd be great to see him have a

horse that could win the Kentucky Derby.

Obviously Sierra Leone got very, very close a couple of years

ago, but it seems like he it's right now.

It kind of seems like it's him and not this time.

Which one of them is going to end up getting that Derby winner

first, I think or is into Mischief just going to keep

rolling? We'll find that out.

Well, but with all the success that those 3 stallions have had

recently, I don't. Did you bet on the sire future

wager at all? Did you put your money behind

any of those guys? Because it seems like those are

kind of the big three to watch. It's a great question for you.

I'm not a future wager, dude. That's just not my I I have a

hard time if it's not the stock market tying up my money that

long. I think, Sean, I'm just so used

to put money down, walk outside, wait 3 minutes, races over, get

my money back. I think I'm just so used to that

that I just the future wagers. I'm I'm not cut for that at all

in this case. But I think you're right that

those are the three for sure. And but you're right, if there's

a the into mischief, by the way, that's it's a it's a ridiculous,

ridiculous how good that let that that numbers been and how

how good the the line has been. But I yeah, I think those are

the next two for sure. Yeah, and it's going to be, you

know, we've seen them check off so many, both Gun runner Not

this time check off so many boxes as far as what they've

accomplished so far. Getting that Kentucky Derby

winner this upcoming year would just be another another step

forward for them. In the demo zone, we saw a

daughter of American Pharaoh win in Zany, almost a carbon copy

frankly of the path to get to this race.

One race sprinting at Gulfstream Park goes ahead and does the two

turn thing at Aqueduct. The New York track of course to

the to the Kentucky Oaks is very convoluted.

A mile and an eighth now will go back to a mile in the near

future on that on that trail. But I mean, I thought Zany just

as good as anyone this weekend. Yeah, and you could see she you

know, she kind of drifted in a little bit when she got into the

top of the stretch, but then she rolled from that point forward.

So she figures it out. She's definitely going to be 1

to watch. And she's already run the

Kentucky Oaks distance now at that mile and a for the MSL.

So you don't have to be concerned about that at all.

You just even less of a concern than the mile and a for Remsen

leading toward the Derby. This is the actual distance that

she'd be running. So I think she's definitely she

moved herself to the top of the list for me with just how how

impressive the. Winning.

You know, you know Pletcher can get a get affiliate to the

Kentucky. I'm.

Very not worried about Todd Pletcher the Kentucky that's

exactly right daughter American Pharaoh there uncle MO on the

damn side so should again Milo and 8th will be fine the rest of

her career She stays healthy there for sure he Shawn Collins.

I'm Louie Rabo. This is Blood Horse Monday.

Want to bring in our friend and editor Frank Angst for this

portion of the program. Appreciate him jumping in with

us today. And Frank, good afternoon to

you. Any, any reaction to to the the

conversation with broker? Any reaction to Paladin's Ron in

the ransom? No, I guess we can credit

ourselves. We did call him the most likely

winner and we said Balboa was the best long shot bet and he

held on the 3rd I believe and gave a thrill there at the top

of the stretch when he opened up a little bit.

So some pretty good handicapping despite not having Sean last

week. It was a less good looking show,

but it was a better handicapping show.

So you know that's it's a trade you got to make it is what it

is. Frank Eggs, of course, our

editor there at Blood Horse. Find his work at bloodhorse.com.

Of course you can find him in the magazine as well.

We'll tell you how to get that later in the program.

But Frank, you are interested in a conversation about prediction

markets. And this is something on my

general sports talk radio show that we've had to have a lot of

conversations about. And there are lots of different

companies trying to get into the space.

I've talked with people sort of behind the scenes.

Everybody's kind of ready to jump into these kinds of

markets. Can you tell people what they

are and why they they might affect horse racing?

Yeah. So we were the dollars and cents

column looked at prediction markets 2 weeks ago and we're

going to look at it again because there's a lot going on

right now. So prediction markets they that

the argument that they make and so far successfully and to some

extent is that they operate under the Commodity Futures

Trading Commission. So they're basically saying that

a wager on typically US and world events.

They're saying that that is a commodity that they're trading.

That's the argument they're making and that's how they've

been able to operate on some level.

So they might say you can bet on if the feds going to lower

interest rates or raise interest rates.

People take both sides of that. You can offer either side of

that. You can play the role of the

house basically and offer odds either way.

So you know, that's attractive to a lot of numbers oriented

people. The concern for horse racing is

and yeah, let me start there. The concern for horse racing is

that these markets wouldn't don't return anything of sport.

I mean, and horse racing, the economic driver is wagering.

So two weeks ago I looked at first racing did a really they

were thinking ahead and they they so horse racing also

there's also offshore betting outlets and horse racing.

Unfortunately, these are outlets that are generally located

offshore, hence the nickname. I think they're all overseeing

offshore claim that they are. The oversight is from offshore

and they take bets, but they do not pay into the sport.

So racing, the purses come from wagering on the sport to some

extent and also the tracks. So when they're a paramutual

wager occurs, the biggest two groups that get money are the

purses in the tracks, the horsemen in the tracks.

So when there's an offshore bet and that money is that in that

arena that doesn't benefit racing.

So any dollar that's bet offshore is a is a loss of a

dollar from the para mutual market or any other regulated

market, which we would like to see maybe horse racing offered

on sports betting, you know, that house odds type of thing.

If that was done, we would only support that if that was done to

support racing like that would have to be contractually hashed

out. So anyway, the good thing that

first racing did is they they took the offshore, one of the

offshore companies, which we're not going to name because we

don't want to publicize them in any way because they are not a

friend of racing. They went and took them to

court. Well, this, this group never

bothered to show up because who knows what kind of trouble they

would get in if they came on the shores of the US and First

Racing won the case. And I mean, the judgement was

for more than $3.6 million was First Racing going to, and that

was just for Santa Anita and Golden Gate.

So that tells you just like that was the judgement.

It's very, very, very doubtful that they'll ever see a dime of

that because these groups are operating in a Gray area to

begin with. But the good news is they have

that in the pocket and the judge found in in their favor under

the Interstate Horse Racing Act. So simulcast wagering as we know

it in the US, the licensed simulcast wagering that benefits

the sport, it operates under the Interstate Horse Racing Act.

So the thought is we racing has this decision in its hip pocket

now. And if it if, if prediction

markets want to move in more than they already have, you

know, racing can take them to court and say, hey, here's

here's a decision where a judge ruled you got to respect the

Interstate Horse Racing Act. You know, I'm very much cutting

it down to what there's more technical legal jargon than

that. But it's a decision that was

found in favor of the sport and found in favor of Interstate

Horse Racing Act as a way of licensing the sport and ensuring

that wagering on the sport benefits racing.

Also in that story, you know, so Tom Shignill, who who is a he

consults for the Hong Kong Jockey Club on integrity issues.

As we're talking about they're racing some.

He spoke at the International Federation of Horse Racing

Authorities conference, one of the biggest type of things of,

you know, discussions on on horse racing every year.

And he pointed out that, you know, the prediction markets

very much are a threat and they're already, they're already

betting on US racing. His estimate was $1.2 million

was wagered on Triple Crown outcomes this year.

So, so it's already a concern. And then my follow up today is

that, you know, there's quite a few court cases going on.

Racing does have racing's not the only one that's concerned.

Sports betting sites are concerned, states are concerned

because that's right, they benefit from the sports betting.

And if a group just says we're going to have similar betting

and not pay into the states, then that's obviously a problem

in Native American tribes who of course are in the casino

business, they are also, they are also concerned.

You know, one one of the cases recently, the judge seemed to be

leaning toward fighting against these groups, especially on

sports wagering. But but really we'll have to see

how a lot of these are going to be key decisions and could even

go to the Supreme Court before it's decided.

But it's it's also a little bit of concern of, of DraftKings and

FanDuel, which have been very much friends to the industry on

a lot of, on a lot of things. They are, they now are moving

into this market as well which that's that's concerning for

sure. He's Frank Gaines,

bloodhorse.com for everything he's working on, including his

dollar, his dollars and cents comma columns.

Easy for me to say, but Frank, you know these prediction

markets themselves. Is there a way you think to

integrate them into the sport? Because, you know, for example,

when we went to the Haskell this summer, we talked with with

Dennis Drazen up there. He talked a lot about fixed odds

and how he thinks with younger betters who are in the sports

wagering space. It just, you know, it just

translates better for them. It's a language.

I think the sports wagering can be integrated because all the

parties involved can sit down and come up with a plan that

works for all the parties involved.

I, I don't think so at prediction markets because I

think, I, I mean, I'm still discovering more everyday about

them. But to me, I think one of the

reasons they work is they're not really sharing the profits with

anyone like they're not. There's no cuts, so they can

they. Don't the sports betting is very

much on some level I I would say they're very much partners with

states on a lot of ways like they're they're very much

bringing money in the state coffers and states oversee them.

I mean this this group is just picked out who they say is the

say their regulator is and they're not benefiting any of

the groups that they're taking wagers on.

I mean the NBA doesn't bet. You know that if they have a

wager on who's going to win the NBA title, the NBA doesn't

benefit. Could say the same thing about

sports betting. But if it if it expanded to

horse racing, I I would only favor sports betting moving the

horse racing if it definitely benefited horse racing, which is

the same case in New Jersey. I know Dennis would never agree

to agree to such a setup if money wasn't going in the

benefit horse racing. So.

No, that's exactly right. I was just thinking as far as

these exchanges, especially if they were, you know, if people

were willing to to accept not a pair of mutual model, but you

know that fixed odds kind of model where the house is

offering these shares. Maybe that's that's the

predictive way they're going to have to go.

I'm not sure. I mean, if, if, if, if, if they

lose some legal decisions and then they kind of see the only

way they can operate is to be licensed and the benefit the

horse racing specifically maybe maybe something.

But that is so far down the road that I really, I mean, they're,

they're really kind of taking the approach of we're going to

do what we do and we're going to fight you in court and we're

just going to make the argument that we're legal.

It's hard to imagine sites like that are just going to do a 180

and a, you know, say, OK, we're willing to pay you this much

money for your, for your signals.

Yeah, that's, I don't see that happening.

Or if it does happen, it would take a long time to get there I

would think. I'll get you out of here on

this, Frank. The Global Symposium kicks off

at Arizona Today Global. Suppose you have a horse racing.

Is there a particular panel or topic that you're looking

forward to getting the notes from or seeing as part of a live

stream? Yeah, I mean, I think that's all

on there. They're going to have a follow

up on computer CAW wagering. It continues to be an

interesting topic to find that balance.

It's just it's a very daunting task to bring in new players

while at the same time very much catering to the betters that are

putting far and away the most money through the through the

windows. Yeah, No, it should be really,

really interesting. A bunch of people on that, on

that panel that I really, I, I like to follow what I'm

interested in. Marshall Graham, he's a

professor at Rhodes College in Tennessee is going to be on that

one. He's always all over these

numbers, has really great statistics to share.

So it'll be interesting to see how much they really dive into

it, frankly, Frank, to see if there's a if there is a you're

right, because it is a balancing act, because you're right, you

can't not have that that amount of funds that come in through

the caws. But if you're going to track new

better, So you got it, you got to offer value too, right?

I mean, so, yeah, the rebating makes it difficult that way for

sure. But all right, well, dollars and

cents, all those things available at Blood Horse,

bloodhorse.com. What else do we be looking for,

say, in the magazine? Oh, the new magazine should be

out this week. The December issue.

So that's exciting. Have some good stories there.

And yeah, lots of good stories from the symposium this week on

the website. Bloodhorse.com magazine tab at

the top of the home page. Also sign up for the daily.

There's a daily tab at the top there straight to your e-mail.

They don't sell your e-mail to a bunch of ad companies.

Don't worry about that. But it is a free newsletter to

start your day, Frank. Part of that, of course, strong

part of that as well over there at bloodhorse.com.

Thanks, Frank. Thanks guys here.

You go, Frank. Thanks.

In the prediction market world, Sean, I'm going to guess since

you are Mr. Para Mutual, Doctor, Doctor Para Mutual, if you will,

since you seem to have. Graduated oh did I get?

Upgraded to that, you're just such an art defender.

You don't know anything about prediction markets, do you?

No. OK.

So essentially the idea is you, you put an idea out there, you

put a value on it and then someone, if someone decides if

it has value or not, they're they're essentially trying to

trade these as stocks essentially.

So someone has to own it, you have to buy it from them.

Yeah, that's kind of thing. So they're they're trying to

make that kind of argument and, and Frank's right, if you are,

they're essentially using a product that people have to put

time, money, effort, etcetera into and not having any

ramifications for it, right. So like, it's one thing to do

elections and have that out there.

I don't know if someone should make money on elections.

They probably shouldn't. You know, it's probably not good

for us as a democracy to have those sorts of things happening.

But frankly within horse racing, it's very difficult as Frank

described, because if you don't have those feeding into some

kind of para mutual system outside of the fixed odds thing

like what they have in Monmouth, I don't know how else you could

do those kinds of markets. And it would have to be the

house that sells those shares. And so that part I think is very

difficult. Yes, definitely.

And we, we need all that money coming in on the wagering side

for racing everything, literally everything.

Yeah, we need just, we just need everything to be able to filter

the money into the purse structure that will then, you

know, help generate for the horsemen that that's the main

thing there. So that's not happening.

Got to got to fix that. I'm really looking for.

I agree with Frank, by the way, I'm a CAW panel at, at Arizona.

I, I'm very fascinated to see what gets asked and what gets

answered in that thing because I, I wish people would just be

as transparent as possible about it.

Like tell us what percentage of funds comes from where.

Just tell us, OK, you're all regulated by states anyway.

Just tell us the numbers. I mean, and it just, I, you

know, the all sources handle thing and all this stuff, it

means nothing to me if I don't know what the rebates are, it

means nothing to me. Oh, OK, $100 million, sure.

What does that mean? What's your actual take out?

All of you complain to us that you don't get enough subsidies.

You don't get this. And I don't know what the take

out rates are for every bet that comes in.

OK, OK, Falls on deaf ears with me, man.

I don't know. And so just if you get your

butts kicked by the prediction market and you don't tell us

what's going on with Caws, I got nothing for you.

I really do. I got nothing for you.

So I hope they figure it out and they get it together.

So I'm sorry. Are they offering a phone line

for that for that panel so that way you can call?

You can, you can comment in, they have that available at the

website and all that stuff. You can ask questions.

Which when is that? When is that panel?

That one's Wednesday. Time you're you'll be busy.

When is it? Wednesday.

Wednesday, OK, I'll be what Louis doing on Wednesday.

He's sending me questions. And I like a lot of the people

on that panel. I want to be clear, but give me

some transparency on this stuff, people.

You don't care if we got some of that, you know, it's we had a

kind of the the claiming crowd. We had Eric Camelback on.

I've talked to him, you know, at other in other media spots and

he said he learned early on in his time, boy, this might have

been back at Delta Downs or something, that if you take care

of two people, you take care of the sport.

And he said if you take care of owners and you take care of the

better, those are the two sources of funding for the

sport. Yeah, at least historically.

Right now we've got the subsidies and we've got slot

money or HHR money or whatever. But he always said, look, if you

take care of those two groups, you'll have a sport forever.

And, and I'm not sure we're, we're doing either of those very

well right now. I'm not sure.

And, and so I appreciate, I, I see a lot of negative noise on

the Internet about the Arizona stuff and about the symposium

and, oh, only these people. Would you rather they not talk

at all? What's the alternative here is

to not do this at all? And so no, I'm glad they're

talking about. I just hope that we get some

transparency because it's, it's, it's too important.

I think Eric's right in that point.

You got to take care of your owners.

It's not a comfortable thing, by the way, because none of us have

the money. You and I, Sean, we can't just

go buy Sierra Leone. We can't just go own Paladin.

That's not something we can do right.

And I'm picking on Brooke on purpose here.

It's OK, I. Like, well, we're not at that

level of Brooke yet where he's just going to gift us one of his

horses. Here's Paladin.

No, no, we're not at that point, but.

Come on. You're cutting off, but, but if

you don't take care of those two groups, I don't know what we're

going to do in the future. And so hopefully they'll go

ahead and do that. All right, so you and I had some

fun this morning and I am very excited and I made a decision

during the interview that I need your approval on right now.

Sean, Are you ready? OK.

We need more Bob on this podcast, whether it's it's it's

it's E halt or it's it's Bob up there in Chicago, Kik heifer and

like if I don't care which one or both.

Oh, do we do an all Bob episode of this show?

I just need it all. I need all Bob all available to

me. It's just many, many parts of

the pop thing on this program. But we talked to Bob ahead of

Bobs. Let's have both Bobs host the

show, so we won't even be here. We'll just let.

Both bobs I'm. Actually, with you get the keys

to the keys to the podcast for a week and see what happens.

I I got shushed by Bob in the Keeneland Press box once, which

is still like a top three moment of my career.

It was fantastic. Yeah, ironically, I was talking

to Andrew Brown, who's a big Hong Kong fan.

We're going to talk Hong Kong with him again.

Big races this weekend. Go check him out at the Hong

Kong Jockey Club. The Hong Kong Cup, the Hong Kong

Sprint, the Vase and the Mile are all this weekend.

The races are here and they are this Saturday night.

Watch the clash of local superstars and international

Raiders like Romantic Warrior Kaying Rising Soul Rush in

Santano Rev First Race 1125 at that night.

So excited to have Bob on the program here.

Join us from Chicago. Anything stand out besides the

plushy talk show? Yes, if you've been following

along for a couple of weeks, a little more plushy talk here.

We can't talk about racing over there in Asia without talking.

About the plushies, apparently great.

But now this is going to be a really good weekend of racing.

Romantic Warrior and Kai Ying Rising have just become

superstars internationally. And as actually when I was in

Abu Dhabi this past week and there were a couple other

members of media from around the globe there, I was talking with

one of my friends from Australia and New Zealand, which Kai Young

Rising's a New Zealand bred. And so very, very big deal of

the success he's having to them down there.

But I mentioned to him, I'm like, it seems like we, we in

America right now are almost paying a little more attention

to Hong Kong. Than I agree.

Because of those two horses, because Romantic Warrior and

Cayenne Rising have been so dominant out there, but then

they've also carried that internationally when they have

left as well. Cayenne Rising coming off the

big win in The Everest in Australia and Romantic Warrior

doing what he did even though he didn't win, coming off what he

did in the Middle East. That big race against Forever

Young in the Saudi Cup, that big race in Dubai as well.

So yeah, it's just a really exciting stuff going on out

there in Hong Kong right now. Right.

Well, we will ask Sean about the Arabian Peninsula after this,

but here's Bob Keek efforts probably by the way, on a plane

to Hong Kong as we're recording this.

From this time was when I originally wanted to have him

on. That's why we did it this

morning. So he's probably getting on the

plane right now as we speak. Well, there you go.

Well, safe travels, Bob. Here's our interview with him.

All right, continue our discussion of all things

international racing this week on Blood Horse Monday with Bob

King. Kepper comes does a bunch of our

coverage over at bloodhorse.com. Of course, in Hong Kong,

international races are this Saturday night.

Watch that local clash of superstars with international

Raiders like Romantic Warrior, Cayenne Rising, Soul Rush and

Setano Rev First race, 11:25 PM Eastern Time.

So if you're out on the West Coast, no problem.

Just a little prime time racing there at 8:25 as well.

Bob K, we welcome them in. This is a long time coming, I

got to tell you, right? I think this is our 45th episode

of this ridiculous thing, and we haven't talked to you yet, which

is ridiculous. I don't.

I don't like it at all. Bob, how are you?

I'm good. It seems like I've been writing

for The Blood Horse for about 45 years, so it's about time I got

after 45 episodes of this show. One episode per year of Bob Kay

hanging out with Blood Horse. That's exactly right, but we

bring you in to talk international racing.

How? How did you get interested in

international? Racing.

Oh, that's such a long, long story.

It goes back, but the first race I ever covered as a reporter was

the first running of the Arlington Million.

So yeah, you start at the top and you get interested in

international racing to begin with, and it's kind of all gone

downhill from there. Well.

It's fascinating. Wow.

All right, Sean, did you get to an?

Did you get to an? You had to have gotten to an.

Arlington. Arlington Million.

Yeah, I. Didn't get to an Arlington

Million but the Arlington Park in its final year so I got like

8 random, you know, claiming an allowance races on a random

Saturday that I managed to make it.

Up. You know, I have to give Sean

credit though, he he is such a such a fan of racing that last

year he drove all the way from Lexington to Stickney, IL to see

the Illinois Derby at Hawthorne Racecourse where you can't even

see the track from the from the stands anymore, and then turned

around and drove back home that evening.

Sean, that's our guy. That's that's why we're up to 45

episodes of this ridiculous thing, because he just landed

off a plate. My God, I can't even imagine how

long. That trip to Dubai was but of

course that was last weeks episode.

We're talking Hong Kong this week, Bob, with Bob Key Keffer

here on Blood Horse Monday. Wanted to ask you about before

we get into what's going to happen this weekend, some of

that Japan Rd. to the Kentucky Derby.

We've had, you know, like Kate, but Kate, we've had Kate a

hunter on this program as well. And it talked about that

Japanese road to the Kentucky Derby and frankly the expansion

of the races in the Arabian Peninsula as well.

Bob, do you anticipate even more starters from Japan as we move

forward? Well, yeah, I do.

Japan has put a lot of more emphasis on dirt racing in the

last three or four years. They established a new dirt

Triple Crown that's kind of catching on.

But I mean, you know, when you see horses winning the big races

in, in in the Middle East, and then you see, of course, forever

young winning our biggest race, you know, it's bound to catch on

the. And after all, the the biggest

influence on their bloodlines ever was Sunday silence.

So, you know, it's it's it's a natural.

Yeah. And and the Japan road to the

Kentucky Derby itself has already been pretty, pretty

formative and, and putting together a field.

So yeah, you know, they know what they're doing.

Yeah. They really do, yeah.

So Time of Voyage won the first step on that road to the

Kentucky Derby this year. Is he, from what you're hearing

out there, is he a realistic contender for the Derby,

somebody that they're considering?

What if he continues on that path they'd bring over?

He's going to have to show that he can go beyond a mile, which

might be a little bit of a challenge, according to his

trainer. So, but you know, we'll see.

That horse that won down at Tampa Bay Downs the other day

going 6 furlongs is being talked about now as a Derby contenders,

yeah. You never know.

Yeah, from 6 to 10, no big deal, right?

Easy stretch out there for sure. You mentioned the emphasis on

dirt, but frankly, still a lot of very good turf racing.

Of course, in Japan, Clanigan is targeting potentially the

Breeders Cup Turf in 2026. This is an interesting story,

Bob. I went through your piece of

bloodhorse.com and it was essentially, hey, we've made

commitments in Japan, but also we don't love how the layout at

Del Mar seems to, you know, it would, would affect the running

style here. I, I, I don't know, ethical

diamond, one of the things. So maybe anybody can win the

race at some point, but can you kind of explain what they think

they might get at Keeneland instead?

Well, yeah, the the thing about Del Mar is kind of confused me

too, because if if you look at the turf track at Del Mar and

you look at Keeneland, you know, tight turns, you know, short

stretch, you know, it looked a lot similar.

But their their people said there, there there are enough

differences that it would make a difference.

But the I think the big key to that and really we want to get

Kalandigan to come to the Breeders Cup is, you know, they,

they everyone, the King George, they made a commitment to, to

Japan. And if you win the King George,

Japan gives you a lot of extra money to give just to just to

come for the Japan Cup. You don't have to win it.

You get like a million extra bucks just to come.

And if you win, he, he won a big bonus for that.

So, you know, that was kind of on this, But you know, the Aga

Khan, you know, he, I, I, I met him the, the late I got caught.

He passed away in February. I met him when he came to the

Arlington Million in 1991, finished third.

I forget the horse's name, but they're committed worldwide.

And his, his daughter, the Princess, who is just charming,

by the way, is, is still committed to these international

races. So anyway, I think that's one of

the races that he hasn't won. That would be nice to win.

And is it gelding? He's going to be around for a

while, so give it a try. The Keeneland, the Keeneland

thing sets up really interestingly.

I think we're going to have a huge contingent of turf runners

for sure, as we always do in the Breeders Cup.

But Bob, I want to ask the most important question on this show

Kalanigan has does he have a plushie or not?

Does he have a what? A plushie?

Is there a plushie of Kalanigan or not?

They answer the question, yeah, what are we doing turfie in Hong

Kong and Japan? They're turfies.

It's the. Is that what they call them

turfies? OK, the gift.

Shop is a turfie shop. I I didn't see one in Japan.

You. Know.

I doubt that. Unbelievable.

Well, why doesn't Keelan do that?

They need to. Oh, you're forgetting.

You're forgetting the rule that Kate told us a few weeks ago.

He's got to win 2 great ones in Japan or?

In Japan, that's right, they have to be.

In Japan, the King George doesn't count toward the plucky

with. 1. More.

Hong Kong would be happy to produce 1 for him, I'm sure.

I'm sure that's true. But Bob, we we've seen Japan

have so much success on the international scene in recent

years, but this is the first time an international Raider has

come in and won the Japan Cup in 20 years.

Just what's the historical significance of what he did in

that race? Well, I think that the

significance is, is that it showed that a, that a foreign

horse can come into Japan and win.

It's, it's really hard. It's hard in Hong Kong too,

because it's a long trip. The, the tracks are different.

They're, they're configured differently.

They're uphill, downhill. And it's, it's, it's, it's a big

ask. The same thing is true in Hong

Kong. As I said, you know, they, they,

they seem to win two or three of their races, usually 3 every,

every big, big race day. So in the sense that that it

shows you that it can be done, that's good.

But we'll keep in mind that arguably the Japanese contingent

wasn't the strongest ever this year for the Japan Cup.

And Kalandigan is a really unusual horse.

He's, he's really something. So, you know, it's, it's good.

You know, I, I, I tell the people at the Hong Kong Jockey

Club every year when they win three of their four races.

I said, you know, how do you expect to recruit any more

horses to come there once in a while?

Bob Keeke there with us. He'll be getting on a plane for

for shot 10 coming up here. Excuse me for for Hong Kong here

in a couple weeks. The races at shot 10 already in

the books. Romantic warrior Kyung rising

win in what I assume are preps for the weekend.

Bob, let's start with Kyung rising just because I think

romantic warrior we could probably talk about for about an

hour. What should we expect to see

from Kyung We? Expect to see him win.

That simple. Years Do you remember years ago

when Cigar was chasing Citations record of 16 straight wins?

Expected to win, Yeah, right. This guy's doing the same thing

under the radar. He's he's, he's 115 year old.

He went to Japan and took on the the some of the world's top

sprinters in the 20 million Australian dollar Everest, the

richest turf race in the world, 6 furlongs.

And he schooled him. He was, he was, he was so far

the best. It was just unbelievable.

And you know the, I've got the figures here someplace.

He has a, he has a in the ratings, he has like a nine, a

£9 advantage over his closest competitor in this race.

So he's if, if he doesn't win, it'll be a real surprise.

You know, good horse. Yeah, it is horse racing.

You never know, but it definitely seems like one of the

unique talents that we have in the world right now.

You mentioned this trip to Australia and going and winning

that Everest Stakes down there. Just how, how rare is it to see

a horse like this coming out of the Hong Kong series?

Obviously we have a romantic warrior as well, but how, how

rare is it to see a horse that's based in Hong Kong having that

kind of success on that, that international stage in

Australia? Well, you know it, it's not that

rare. Odd, oddly enough.

You know, Hong Kong is a very small closed racing operation.

They have like 1200 horses. They don't have a breeding

operation. Everything that they have is

stable either at Shotan Racecourse or now at their new

place across the border. So it's a very small horse

population. And yet, you know, you've got

two of the best horses in the world coming out of there and

you've had, you know, Silent Witness and you've had Golden 60

and you've had a whole bunch of other horses that have gone

around the world, mostly to Japan in the past and in one

grade one races. So it's, it's, it's actually

quite remarkable how well they do in the international scene

with a relatively small, you know, sample to draw from.

And, and they're very happy to tell you that, by the way.

It is. It's like when the, you know,

it's like Hoosiers, right? You know, the small school beats

the big school and everybody goes nuts and Gene Hackman's

really excited. That's what Hong Kong racing is,

right? Well, yeah, but but I don't

think Winfrey Dangle, but Brisk is the CEO would would be happy

to hear that he's being compared to a little school in Indiana.

He's pretty sure that they're pretty big stuff.

They are big stuff indeed. Bob, Bob K We call Bob K Kepper

with us for Blood Horse and bloodhorse.com, of course.

He's on his way to Hong Kong today to cover the big weekend.

Coming up, Romantic Warrior will run this weekend, going for a

fourth straight win. And look, this is the kind of

horse Bob that, if we're talking world rankings, is going to be

near the top of everyone. So where is he and yours?

Well, you know, I think he, he came back from a layoff of 232

days surgery on one of his 4/4 legs and one for fun in his last

race in the prep race. He's, he's, he's, he's won the

launching Hong Kong Cup three years in a row, going for a

record 4th. And I don't see anything that

can, that can get in his way again, you know, like Kai Young

rising, who knows. The both of those races, by the

way, have a little bit of a traffic issue.

The, the, the challenge depends a lot on the, on the barrier

draw in the, in the Cup, there's a really short run from the

start to the first turn. And if you get caught on the

outside, you can have a kind of a challenging trip.

And that would be the only question that I would have for

romantic worry. But James McDonald is riding him

and, and you know, he's, he's just been named the world's best

jockey again. He knows what he's doing.

He's, he's, he's, he's his regular rider.

The, you know, when, when he was beaten by Forever Young in the

in the Saudi Cup this past February, people looked at that

ride and said, well, you know, maybe he moved too soon.

Maybe he let him get the outside, maybe this, maybe that.

So, you know, but I mean, there's no Forever Young in this

race. Who?

Who would be in this race? That would be If Romantic

Warrior has a bad day, who could we look out at potentially being

the horse that would upset his four peak bid?

Well, you know, after that it's pretty much even you've got

Bellagio opera from Japan. You know, maybe good horse.

It's, you know, I'm not going to pick another one because it's

just kind of a toss up. I mean, I'm if you're betting

against romantic warrior, you're you're you're you're you're

stabbing at the program anyway. So we we know Bob's got 2

singles on his on his pick 4. Trick, I think he's made that

pretty clear. Yeah, right.

Yeah, No, no need for translation on that.

Well, go ahead. You know it's tough when when

you're a confirmed 4 horse trifecta box.

Better to pick a single there. You go Bob geek ever with us.

bloodhorse.com, The Boss and The Mile are also going to be

happening there on Saturday, Sunday, whatever you want to say

there in Hong Kong. Which race are you looking for?

Two more. Well, I'm, yeah, yeah, the mile

is, is, is an interesting race. One thing to to watch out for it

here though, is Aidan O'Brien is coming into Hong Kong with, with

two horses and one of them is the Lion and Winter in the mile.

And he's going to be a long shot because you've got Soul Rush who

actually defeated the from Attic Warrior in in Dubai in the in

the Dubai Turf. And then you've got voyage

bubble who was kind of took over romantic warrior respondent in

Hong Kong while romantic warrior was travelling to the Middle

East and did some pretty good work there.

But my my point that I was losing there as I was digressing

is Aidan O'Brien comes in with with a chance to tie his own

record for the number of grade one wins in the course of one

year. He has to win both these races.

The Lion and Winter would be his choice in the Mile.

And did Lion and Winter, what did he do last time out?

Was he third in the Breeders Cup?

Well, you know, that's not bad. Then he has to win with Los

Angeles in the in the Vase, I say Los Angeles.

I've been listening to too many of these British commentators.

The vase is going to say anything.

But you know, there's a horse that has it has been

disappointing, I think in terms of of of his actual

performances. But the Vase is the one race

that the Hong Kong horses don't have an advantage in because

they don't run that mile and a half hardly at all in Hong Kong.

It's an odd distance for them. So, you know, Aiden O'Brien is

Aiden O'Brien and Ryan Moor is back.

Don't forget Ryan Moor is back and he's going to be riding

those two horses. And you, you know, that means a

lot. He's, you know.

You know, Mikhail Barcelona did a great job, but you know, Ryan

Moore still Ryan Moore, he knows what he he also knows Hong Kong

and that's that's an important thing.

By the way, Lily, you, you mentioned a while ago shot in.

But I, I, I would point out that any American fans who who are

interested in Hong Kong racing, first of all, you got to go.

It's, it's really, it's really something it's, it's, it's, it's

like no other racing in the world.

And that's partly because there are two tracks in Hong Kong.

Shatan is up in the New Territories, up in the what we

would call the suburbs, I guess. But Happy Valley is like you put

a race track right down at the middle of Times Square in New

York. It's, it's surrounded by

residential high rises and it's, they raced there on Wednesday

night and it's turned into a real vibe.

It's, it's got a lot of young people and a lot of beer gets

drunk. And they have, they have, it's

just a really cool. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's

unbelievable. It's, it's worth a trip to Hong

Kong just to see Happy Valley. If you're interested in watching

these races. The Hong Kong Jockey Club also

has some of the most transparent data of any venue in the world.

If you go to hkjc.com/english you can find past performances

videos of all the previous races these horses have run.

It's, it's, it's, it's good handicapping stuff.

There's also a form guide for the international races

available on there. It's good handicapping stuff,

and it also makes our job as writers a whole lot easy.

Oh, no, no, we have to work really hard.

Come on, This is. Well, you mentioned going going

out there when you're at Shotton this weekend, what's 11 unique

thing about the course, One thing you really like that if

somebody does make it out to that racetrack at some point

that they should be on the lookout for what's what's unique

about that course? Well, again, you know, it's,

it's a, it's a setting, I think. I mean, it's, it's a, you know,

you look out and you see hills and green and, and you know,

more high rises, but not, not like it is in Happy Valley.

And then when you look down the grandstand down the stretch, it,

it, it looks like Old Belmont in terms of how big it is, but

she'll see 60,000 people in it, which is pretty rare for Old

Belmont. And, and the Hong Kong fans,

like the Japanese fans are, are fanatical and knowledgeable and

vocal. And you know, they could be a

little bit short if you get in their way while they're on their

way to the, to the, to the wagering windows.

It's, it's, it's fun. It's, it's different.

I mean, you know, every, every jurisdiction is different.

Hong Kong is different from different.

I too do not like to be interrupted on my way to cash

tickets. I understand the Hong Kong goer

for it that way for sure. Well, Bob, safe travels.

Thanks so much for the for jumping on this morning.

I know it's an early morning there in Chicago, so we

appreciate you very much. Have a great trip.

And thank you. My pleasure.

Let's do it again. I think it's the Bob K as we

call him around here. Of course.

Find his work at Blood Horse and bloodhorse.com.

With all the great racing this week, it sounds like we got a

couple singles, Sean. Yeah, we do have a couple

singles there. Romantic warrior Kai Ying

Rising. If you're playing a pick 4

ticket, you got 2 two boxes checked right there and you got

to figure out the other two. Back of horse and get paid is my

friend Danny Brewer always says I I'm fascinated by how we

talked about it too. What I love is, you know, we

talked shots in on these Saturdays, the fact that here on

the weekends, I should say, excuse me, but on our Saturdays,

the happy Valley thing of it, just like the, the comparison to

Central Park, the photos are incredible.

My wife actually lived for three months during medical school in,

in Hong Kong. And she said one of the best

things was where they live, they could see the, the racetrack and

they just, they essentially it acts as a park in the middle of

the city. It's just an open space amongst

all these high rises in the sort of remarkable setting of old

Hong Kong, old old Hong Kong. And, and, and so it's, it's fun

to hear guys like Bob, you know, describe going to the first

Arlington Million. That's how they get into the

international racing scene. And then just falling in love

with these courses all over the world.

And I know you, Sean, your guy who loves going to courses.

I'm sure you could relate to that in a in a really serious

way. Yeah.

Oh yeah, definitely. You know, if it's, if you know

me, you know how much I love to try to get to as many different

race tracks as I possibly can. Just did that over this past

weekend. But there's just, there's

something and especially coming out of the trip that I just had

to Abu Dhabi last week, there's just something about going to

see races in other parts of the world and seeing, you know, the

differences in, you know, maybe how the race tracks are laid out

or the differences in the way that they conduct the racing and

all those different kind of things that just really, you

know, I recommend to anybody, Bob, Bob recommended it there,

get get on out to Hong Kong, see what those race tracks are like

if you're a big racing fan. But I always recommend to

people, if you do get the opportunity to travel

internationally, whether it's specifically for horse racing or

not, if there is a racetrack nearby and you have the time, go

to it. Because it's quite an experience

to see racing in different parts of the world and it really gives

you bigger respect for just the sport as a whole.

Especially what what I did this past weekend, being able to

spend a little bit more time watching the Arabians race and

seeing just how important that breed is to the culture out

there on the Arab Peninsula in the United Arab Emirates.

And just, you know, seeing how much they revolve around the

Arabian horse and just how big of a culture piece that is.

And then you mix in the thoroughbreds with it as well

that obviously have descended from Arabian horses.

But it just gives you it gives you more of a perspective on

just how this industry really is a worldwide thing, how this is

something that can really kind of help bring people together.

There is a quote at the barrier draw from His Excellency Ali Al

Sheba, who's the general manager of the Abu Dhabi Turf Club or

director general of it. And he said one of the benefits

of having an event like the President's Cup this past

weekend is this is his quote today.

We are looking at this place as a platform to get the media

exposure to send the message to everyone globally about our

culture, heritage and how equestrian horses were part of

building our nation. And that's what I think you

really get when you go to some of these international race

tracks is it's an opportunity for us to kind of connect over

something as simple as horse racing that we do all over the

world. But we can kind of in each

country put our own little twist on it that allows for people to

really kind of, it's kind of that invitation to learn about

other cultures and to learn about different things when

you're over there. And we can all kind of combine

in that through the love of the horse or the love of the sport

with racing. And that's what you really get,

whether it's Bob going out to Hong Kong, whether it's me going

out to Abu Dhabi, whenever you get the opportunity to do any of

these international events, of these international races.

You know, Sean, something that us dads say all the time is

kids, kids. Kids will be kids.

Kids are kids everywhere, right? You travel internationally, kids

are still kids. I'm getting on a plane tomorrow

to go to Puerto Rico. Kids are still going to be kids

in San Juan, right? Like they are here in

Louisville. And horse racing is like that,

right? You go to these different places

and there's everyone loves horses wherever you are, right?

They just do. And they love the racing and

that kind of stuff. And the product matters to them.

And I always tell the story. You know, one of my very

favorite places in horse racing is Clocker's Corner, Santa

Anita, because you are under the mountains there.

But if you go 10 miles in the other direction, you're in

downtown Los Angeles, right? And, and there's something

magical about being almost in that in between space between

whatever, whatever kind of holy place Santa Anita is and

whatever, whatever downtown LA is, that kind of thing.

But I, I love just standing in Clark's corner, a cup of coffee

and just people are talking to sport.

And then you go to Turfway in the morning, they're doing the

same thing. You go to Fairgrounds in the

morning, they're doing the same thing.

And there's something. So I mean, there's a reason that

guys like Bob have been at it forever.

There's in the way that he does it.

And there's a reason you enjoy the sport so much, Sean, is

because there's something about the barn, there's something

about those works in the morning being around those things.

And that does not change place to place.

No, it does not, and it really did.

It does give you that open invitation.

You have that common, that common thing to discuss with

people. So what?

No matter which racetrack you're at, when you're there on the

backstretcher, you're sitting in the grandstand during the races,

you know, you can have that common knowledge source, that

common interest that you can start talking to people about,

and then that will then learn. That will then turn into

learning about each other, different cultures.

You know, one of the things that I've enjoyed doing the last

couple years is not only with Kate, but with some of the other

Japanese connections that come in for the Derby is just kind of

sitting on the backstretch and talking with them about the

differences between racing over there and racing over here.

And then kind of you can kind of start correlating that into how

it's culturally different in those places.

You can Start learning about that.

So really racing is kind of that bridge that really helps a lot

of these cultures, a lot of these countries kind of come

together if you're if you're in the sport.

Synthetic championships this weekend.

Speaking of places in the sport, it is cold in Kentucky.

Hopefully they're able to race on Saturday.

We're looking at very. Very on Saturday that I had

last. Week.

Oh my God, it's so cold. I I hope that the the ground is

not frozen for the synthetic championships this weekend.

And I am consistently amazed and reminded Sean of how different

Turfway is now than when I moved to Kentucky around 2010.

And every race on the card this Saturday, we'll have more than

ten horses in it. Every race will be worth at

least $100,000, and they will run 4 stakes races for 1/4

million bucks each. The smallest field will be 11.

It's just, it's just a different world than when I got here.

And I'm not mad about it at all. I'm thrilled for, frankly,

because it's not far from my house.

But the turfway thing, how long until one of these is a graded

race, Sean? I don't know if we keep getting

some some of these good fields, but could be pretty soon.

I mean, you saw last year Howard Wolowitz came in, won one of

these races as a Grade 1 winner. So he was pointed to that.

He's back in in again this year as well, trying to defend his

title. It seems like more and more

trainers that typically head South for the winter are

starting to leave a barn behind here in Kentucky for the winter

to point horses up there at Turfway.

And that's the other thing too is a lot of these horses, you

don't really know 100% whether or not they're going to like the

surface, whether they're going to like the synthetic.

And so it give it gives you the opportunity to like test it out,

see which horses like it was that leads to the larger field

sizes because anything can happen out there.

So even if you have a big long shot, you still feel confident

maybe giving it a shot. And so we're just going to start

seeing more and more or better or better horses getting left

here over the winter. And I think these races, I mean

if we stay on the track we are right now with these synthetic

championship races, you Fast forward five years, I mean we

could be looking at grade twos in here maybe I don't know if

we'd get up to a grade one on the synthetic or not, but

here's. Why?

I think we can. Good for you.

This is exactly where I wanted to go with this conversation.

They'll be putting they have synthetic now in Kentucky.

OK. And let's not let's not pretend

that this isn't about money. Kentucky Downs's races are

graded because of money. Yeah.

When you put up purses like that, you get better horses

entered that. It's just how it works, OK, If

you're running consistently, if you're putting up OK.

So there's four races that are $1,000,000.

There are six other. They're putting up $1.6 million

on Saturday. Yeah.

OK Irad Ortiz Junior is going to be in Florence, KY Flavi and

Pratt's going to be in Florence, KY.

OK Belmont is installing a Polytrack.

Gulfstream has a Polytrack. Woodbine obviously has had their

Polytrack. San Anita now has one that they

train over. But if you think that ain't

going to become a track that they run on, you're out of your

mind. Of course it's going to be OK.

I think with all of these options, Sean, you're going to

see Polly, whether people in this country like it or not,

including you who's a dirt guy. It's going to become part of the

zeitgeist of the sport. It's going to become part of

what we do. And I think you're going to get

more and more of these graded opportunities.

And frankly, I think when you and I are still doing this show

in 10 years, we're going to be talking about synthetic sires

ready to. Go baby, but.

You have money. If there's enough money, you do

it. Yes, there is.

That's it. If there's enough money, you do

it. And that, that, that, frankly,

that's all that matters is if there's.

Money. Yeah, I do have to say I thought

this. I thought the Synthetic

Championships got off to a great start last year.

No doubt about it. I was up there for for the

inaugural one last year and. Man, did we freeze our tails off

or what? Yeah.

It's such a good day of racing and you know, they such

competitive races as well and and some there were some quick

times I think we saw like one or two track records get broken or

almost get broken. And so it's exciting to see it

come back again this year and hopefully they'll keep kind of

building off of it too. I mean, we have the Kentucky

Downs meet for all those turf horses.

We have obviously the Breeders Cup, which is such a big

championship. It'd be nice to see kind of

these feature races for horses on the synthetic really kind of

blossom into a major event. And Turfway is exactly the right

spot to do that at. So I'm excited for this weekend,

looking forward to getting back up there to Florence.

Should be a lot of fun. We will be back next week to

recap those races and we're getting deep into it, man.

We're getting close to needing to vote on Eclipse Awards and

getting close to Malibu. And we'll have the low sound

fraternity, of course, to react to as well.

We encourage you to check out the QR code at the bottom of the

screen if you are watching on Spotify or on YouTube for our

magazine, of course, Blood Horse Magazine, bloodhorse.com

magazine tab. If you happen to be listening

somewhere else or don't have time right now to click on the

QR code, go check it out later on as well.

Tons of great stuff. Get the stallion registry if you

sign up for the whole year there with Blood Horse Magazine.

And of course, the photos are beautiful.

Put it on your coffee table and make people jealous.

Will I fly back in time for the show next week from Puerto Rico?

Find out then. The Blood Horse is dedicated to

the improvement of Thoroughbred breeding and racing for over 100

years. Don't forget to like, subscribe

and save Blood Horse Monday on all your platforms.

For the latest news, analysis and insights, visit us at

bloodhorse.com. Thanks for listening and we'll

see you next week.