BloodHorse Monday | Pegasus World Cup

All right, it's January 19, 2026 edition, the 51st time we've

done this thing called Blood Horse Monday.

Louis or Beaucheon Collins hanging out with you.

Couple of guests today. We'll welcome Brian Nadeau from

down there at Gulfstream Park ahead of the Pegasus this

weekend. And of course, I haven't had him

on in a minute, A weird stretch of time for us not to have Frank

Inks on the show we'll talk to. Him so much to so many guests

recently so. Much stop asking to be on the

show people. No, I'm kidding, of course, but

no, we'll talk with Frank couple of interesting one of them a

piece that he did some research on on the regulatory vets on

vets at the gate that I thought was an absolute must read as we

get into it. And of course as well, he got in

there. We get we'll get into a little

bit later in the show about the three by three racing and the

machines out there at Santa Anita.

But before we go any further, of course, we want to thank the

Longines World Racing Awards for hanging out with us on this

episode of the program. And those awards take place

tomorrow, January 20th on Tuesday, celebrating the top

horses, the top races from all over the world.

So TuneIn on the International Federation of Horse Racing

Authorities YouTube channel tomorrow around 8:40 Eastern

Time right here on YouTube. And of course, you can see which

races, which horses take home the hardware there at the

launching World Racing Awards. Appreciate them hanging out with

us here on Blood Horse. I got to go Monday.

Last year it was pretty cool. Where was it last year?

In London, OK, but now that was a really cool trip I'm getting

out there and to see getting to talk to.

World travelers on college yes and I'm sitting here with my

kids you know like that was the day because.

Of my world, traveling right there.

That was the first time I left North America, actually.

Is that right? Yeah.

How many tracks did you build into that trip 5?

There it is. I, I, I am probably the the

lone. You're welcome.

I'm probably the lone person to have ever attended 5 different

race tracks in England and never seen a turf race.

It was January, so my tracks that were open with the

synthetic ones there. So, so yeah, so but that was a

really cool trip getting, getting to see City of Troy and

Laurel River winning the award as Co winners last year, getting

to talk to their connections. I had a lot of fun.

That was that was a good time. I I enjoyed being out.

There so again on the IFHA YouTube channel tomorrow at 8:40

go check them out Eastern Time there go check them out for the

awards tomorrow just a spectacular event for sure I

it's it's funny you say that you know you've had young kids who

are colicky and can't sleep and stuff when you've watched and

bet on Australian harness racing on the synthetic yes.

That's that's probably a good sign.

That is middle of the night stuff.

Like there's no, there's nothing more middle of the night than

that. Yeah, 2020 cent, you know, pick

threes and stuff and you're just literally betting on anything to

forget that there's a child right here screaming at you and

there's nothing any anyone can do about it.

There's nothing you can do. Nothing.

Well, I'll keep that, I'll keep that in mind for a few years,

Keep an eye on that Australian harness racing, on the

synthetic. So what a great year it was for

international racing. I mean, you think about think

about forever Young and how he traveled all over the world to

go in Saudi Arabia for the Saudi Cup, the big showdown.

We had him in Hong Kong Romantic Warrior and then also everything

Romantic Warrior and Kaying Rising did in in Hong Kong.

You have obviously all of our horses here in the US Sovereign

TCR will come and. Again, all over.

The Geland again ships into Japan, win wins in Japan.

First international horse to win the Japan Cup in like over 20

years. Not to mention the great racing

that you have at Royal Ascot and throughout Europe.

Everything down in in Australia. We just had VS Sistina retire

over the weekend, 12 time Group 1 winner down there in

Australia. And so it it was a really 2025

was a phenomenal year for international horse racing.

So it'll be interesting to see who takes home the hardware as

as the long jeans world's best racehorse, this Pat this

upcoming well, tomorrow on this upcoming day, figuring out who

wins that. And we should next week on this

on this show, be able to talk to some connections of the winning

horse or the winning races next week.

So stay tuned for that. We'll get a we'll go a little,

little international with our guest next week.

So you left out the maiden wait for Age Hurdle and Punchestown.

And I'm not at all sure why you would leave Punchestown out of

the great success stories of this year, including the I, if

not the best turf horse in the world right now, the number 2 at

worst in Ethical Diamond? I can't really.

Do this number one in the world and you didn't vote him in your

Eclipse awards. Wow, that joke was for Jeremy

Ballad. I hope you're doing well

wherever you are, Jeremy. The IT is pretty incredible that

he won the British Cup in that. It's pretty incredible.

Yeah. And you're touting him as the

greatest horse of all that I don't vote him for the Eclipse.

I'm. Looking.

At Equibase fake fan huh? I'm looking at Equibase and I'm

thinking, wow, good job by me to actually bet that horse like

good job I'm. Coming out of two handicaps.

This just doesn't add up to what I made the case for.

So there you go. All right, let's talk with Brian

in a minute here. We did have a couple of Derby

preps over the weekend, one of them for points and one of them

for getting ready for the next race.

The one for points, of course, was in New Orleans.

It's called the le cops. It's one of those races,

frankly, that we look for Derby starters from.

This is the kind of we're in the Louisiana, we're deep into it

here at. The point where it's 20 points

to the winner now instead of 10. Also this part and so it really

does feel like I remember a couple years ago I was, you

know, we're getting up on Sam F Davis Day here at Tampa and I

was talking with Jason Beam, the Sam, the Sam and we the Sam day.

Is that what we are we just going to call everything the

Sam? It's just the Sam.

So it's not a day, it's just the Sam.

Yeah, I'm going to Tampa Bay Downs for the Sam that's.

What you would say? You know what?

I agree. That's exactly what we need.

Jason Beam, who calls the. Races, they're calling it the

Sam and we can't call it the Davis, so let's just call it the

a the Sam or the F right, the F yeah it.

Would be F. It's not Sam A Davis.

Excuse me, who is Sam A Davis? Forgot to.

I just forgot to part of a stakes race on the Kentucky

Derby trail. That's not good for me, all

right? I'm not having a good day.

Is Sammy Davis's middle name like Antonio or something and I

just don't know it? Or else we can't call it the F,

Anthony. We'll have to stick with the

Sam. Never mind, Golden Tempo wins

last of first F stands. For.

Fitzgerald, Franklin, Francis Now.

I'm going to have to. Look it up.

No, you look it up. I'm going to keep guessing.

I'll leave those three. Those are my 3 guesses.

Now keep guessing. Just keep throwing out names.

Francisco, man, you're not going to find it.

What an incredible waste of everyone's time.

Go on saying that, Davis. You don't say that David did it.

Just says in honor of Sam F David, if anybody out there

knows what the F in Sam F Davis's name stands for,

commented in our comments on either Blood Horses YouTube

channel or Spotify channel, please let us know and we will

hopefully have the answer by the time we get to the Sam.

By the way, I want to clarify Sammy Davis Junior's middle name

is George. OK.

Because you said Sam A Davis and I thought maybe Sammy Davis was

Sam A Davis, but no, he's saying.

Who you pulled up? That's definitely someone I've

never heard of. You don't know from the Rat

Pack. You don't know Sammy Davis,

dude. No, why are you shocked?

I don't understand most references.

I'm not saying anything. Have you, do you know the name

Frank Sinatra? Yes.

That's his dude. Really.

That's his dude. Interesting, did not know that.

Come on bro, you act like I know more about Frank Sinatra.

Than Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin that he wrote.

I know Frank Sinatra from New York, NY and I did it my way or

that song and that's that's probably the only Frank Sinatra

I know are those two songs so. If it hasn't been played in

Aqueduct, I don't know. My name is Shawn Gallant.

That's the good stuff. Cherie Devoe top two in the

Lecompte. I wanted to share this because

it was not something that I thought of or went to it all.

I've I've interviewed Cherie in the past.

She sounds like all of her mentors.

By the way, it's interview wise. I should say top two in the

race. I got a text this morning on my

show, on my radio show and someone said so awesome what

happened in the Le Compte. I hope we get a female trainer

that wins the Derby this year. OK, not a not something I had

thought about before that moment, but it is a a telling

time in in racing that Linda Rice last year in New York,

Brandy Russell in Maryland. We're talking about Cherie

Devoe. Frankly, we had Kevin on last

week. When I am Tenucci and with.

The bot, of course, but we talk about, you know, he talked about

what about resources. She's always pointed well, and I

think we're just at a point where I, I don't know, I, I

don't, I don't think about those things.

I just know that those, those four people are good traders,

right? And it's that kind of thing.

But it is an interesting angle and it just wasn't one that I

thought about. But here we are between the two.

Which one do you think is is more likely to be a Derby star?

Oh. That's a good question.

Because look, here's here's part of the issue is it is one thing

to be golden tempo, to be last to make the rally against this

field. It is a very different thing to

do that in the Kentucky Derby, to be of the quality of a

sovereignty or whatever it might be that requires you to go from

last to 1st. And frankly even he was at last

in that field. OK, Now you also get Mesquite in

here and I think. Stuck very wide.

On this very, very wide in this, in this race, they are not

necessarily clearly the best in this race because because Carson

St. was right behind them, was right there as well.

But between those two of the Sri Devo trainees, which one would

you take? I think I would take Mesquite at

this point. I'm actually, I'm kind of even

on them. OK, really I I don't I'm going

to need I see them again, they separate them because I do think

Mesquite got he got the bad end of the trip with having to go

wide versus Jose Ortiz. Great ride on golden Tempo is

able to keep himself inside and find the spot that opened for

him down there. So the two of them look kind of

even for me at the at the moment in time.

If you remember back a few weeks ago after the gun runner Stakes,

I said I was very impressed with the with chip Poncho in that

race. I didn't really like the way

that the that the horses in that race finished.

I did like seeing when Carson St.

First off, shout out to Carson, Carson St. for that great run

that he had and almost holding on there.

But it was in the middle of the stretch.

I was having that same feeling that I had in the gun runner.

Like it just looks like none of the horses that are down on this

Fairgrounds trail right now are really finishing the job in

these prep races. But then Golden Tempo and

Mesquite ended up kicking in the gear and they came and got them.

So I feel a little bit better about about the about that road

right now. I think we're going to get a

real a real test in the Risen Star.

I believe Paladin is pointing that way.

Think back to Sierra Leone a few years ago where he came in and

just. Brooke said something very

similar. Very similar route.

Yep. And so Brooke Smith, by the way,

owner of Paladin, Yeah, Sierra Leone's ownership, We talked to

them a couple weeks ago. But it it looks like they're

still pointing that way. So I think that'll be a true

test. I'm still even even with these

two getting up there, as you said, you know, coming from

behind and little compt is much different than coming from

behind in the Kentucky jerk. No, no, I'm not sure how

confident I feel really anything in Louisiana right now, to be

honest. That's fair.

And. At least of this group, right?

Yeah, of this of the group that we've seen so far, I'm sure you

know, you know, Brad, Brendan, you know everybody, Cherie might

even have more like they're, they're going to unveil some of

the some of these top, top guys coming up here.

But I mean, if you're Cherie, I'd feel great coming out of

this race. I mean, you have two horses that

you can't really separate at this point.

Especially in this. Group Derby got two shots so

right. Frankly, even if Golden, let's

say Golden Temple runs into Pallet and Paladin's on Fire

wins the race, Golden Temple one second you're sitting on 45 dirt

points. Yeah, and then you're sitting on

45. You can take a Mesquite

somewhere else then at that point too and you you can split

them up. You can get the points that way

and see, But so I'm, I'm a little reserved at the moment to

in what's going on in Louisiana as far as the Derby trail is

concerned. I I haven't particularly really

liked either the gun runner or the comp stakes, but we'll see.

I'm sure the winner is going to come out of this and you can

quote me in a couple months of saying that the races were bad

and the Kentucky Derby top three all came come out of the little

compt or something, but. I'll back you up on this.

I think a horse that ran at Turfway this weekend will have

more points than either of Cherie's horses that were in the

top 2. Little Compt, by the time I get

to Derby Day, I will back you up on that.

But I do want to. I don't want to discount.

You know, obviously it would be great to have Cherie in in the

Derby field. She's been one of these.

She's been one of. The Yeah, she's one of these top

trainers and she just, she just hasn't had that three-year old

dirt horse, correct. And it looks like she's got two

real good shots at that now. And she's going to be a name

that I mean, you think about all, I mean, she's from the

Chad, Chad Brown training tree. You think he's in the race every

single year. She's going to become one of

these trainers that's going to be in the Derby probably every

single year here coming up soon. You know, every year we see Tom

Pletcher, Bob Beffer, Chad Brown, Bill Mott, Brad.

Cox. Brad Cox.

Well, I'll hold off on Brad for a moment because I'm saying

we're going to, we're getting to the point where we're going to

start switching in the generations here, I feel like.

So we're going to get the Brad and we're going to get Cherie,

we're going to get Beckman. And, and these are going to be,

these are now going to be the trainers that obviously I'm not

expecting Pletcher or Baffert or Bill Mott to retire tomorrow,

but these are going to be the trainers now that the next 20-30

years, we're going to be like, all right, who, who do they have

this year? Because they're going to be in

there with somebody. And she, she's in the, she's in

the group of trainers that's going to be at that point.

I'll fight you on that. The Leonatus happens at Turfway

Park, obviously leading to the Jeff Ruby Stakes eventually.

The Battaglia up next. This one was interesting.

I previewed this one on my on the Kentucky Racing Spotlight on

Friday and I said there's two horses in this race to watch and

they went first and 2nd and good job.

The other part that's interesting though is both of

them had never started on synthetic, they'd only been on

turf. OK, and we get 1 coming out of

the Breeders Cup where 3 beats ran great, yes.

And then goes ahead and does something that I think is

notable in this one, and that's get the lead, Keep the lead and

never even think about giving it up.

The lead was not the place to be a turf way this on Saturday.

Or wrecked, OK. And so you get that horse coming

in here and then you get full effort running second vessel.

Chamino rides Grade 1 winner, by the way, Keeneland riding and

another horse that had never been on the synthetic.

I think it was very obvious with this one and this is where I

wanted to go with this. I think St.

Beast is good enough to stay at Turfway and win the Ruby and

qualify for the Kentucky Derby. I think there's no question

there. I think if you ask Ben

Colebrook, he would probably say we're looking at the American

turf or not at the Derby. I did ask Ben Colebrook, as a

matter of fact, I was up at Turfway on Saturday and he

essentially said that I asked him about, you know, the plan.

He said the plan was going into this race, skip the Battaglia

and go to the Jeff Ruby. They see, He said.

After winning. He's like, we'll consider the

Battaglia if it looks like he needs the race, but for now

we're looking at just going straight to the Jeff Ruby and

then he also said. Is the horse going to stay at

Turfway? Yeah, yeah, Ben's, Ben's staying

up here for the winter, so he'll he'll have him here at Turfway.

See that part's really interesting to me because if the

horse is working at Turfway, but go go ahead and finish your

story, but if the horse is working at Turfway, this sets up

a different dynamic for this horse's career as especially as

a three-year old, yes. But I asked him the question.

Obviously Jeff Ruby comes with Derby qualifying points.

That's going to be part of it. I said, you know, is that

something you think you could do?

You know, he he gave the answer that all trainers have to give,

like, well, we'll meet with the owners and and we'll decide if

that that ends up happening. But he did say he he envisions

the long term career path for this horse being synthetic in

turf, sticking to those surfaces.

So the American turf obviously is a great option.

The Jeff Ruby there's a great lead into that.

Of course, we say that every year and then Jeff Ruby ends up

running in the Derby. I.

Mean it's a big boy race too. I mean like, but you run it for

1,000,000 bucks at the Breeders Cup.

Do you run for 777? And yeah, the Jeff Ruby, I mean,

crip somebody. So, so we'll see whether or not

he's going to actually be a Derby horse or not, whether they

would give him the shot. It seems like that, at least

right now, they're thinking sticking toward turf and

sticking toward the synthetic. I would imagine turf all year

and then just synthetic in the winter time.

A turfway would probably be their goal, but, well, depending

on what Belmont ends up offering on the on the synthetic out

there, but. I, I think we all assume we know

what's going to happen with the synthetic stuff and I think none

of us have a darn idea. And I think it's going to be way

bigger than any of us are ready for.

And I think we just need to get ready for it and stop

complaining about synthetic. I think it's coming.

Here's the other part. I I think one of the top two

horses in this race or both will run on the Kentucky Derby.

That's I think full effort is a very interesting one here.

Hear me out if you go back and watch this race.

This horse did not have great footing coming out of the gate.

Nope. And it took a while at the start

for this one to really get the surface underneath.

I don't know if that says a darn thing, but I do explore.

Expect the horse to get better in the next race and get better

at this when you lose by less than .2 seconds in a race in

which you essentially couldn't get out of the gate.

To me that sets you up very well moving forward.

Now Vincent Chamino rides, this is a Brad Cox trainee now.

Is it Liam's map and awesome again on the breeding here.

Am I remembering correctly? For a full effort, yes, Liam's

map out of an awesome again mayor, call me the squeeze.

That largely says turf, but it says distance, does it not?

It does. So that's the part that I think

is very interesting. Does ownership eventually, if

this one gets there at Saint Elias, want to go to the Derby?

If St. Alized, they're going to want to

go to the Derby. So that's why I think full

effort here. And Starlight Racing.

That's really too. Yeah, yeah.

What I think that they see this as their way to qualify for the

Kentucky Derby is on the synthetic, and I think they're

right. I want to be clear I think.

They're I mean, right now, if you're a street beast or you're

a full effort, I mean I've I would say coming out of the

Leonidas this weekend, you guys are the clear top two in the

three-year old group. That's a turf way right now.

And so I mean, why not just coast through the series, get

the points that why leave worry about the dirt later?

I totally agree with you and frankly, if you're St.

Beast, get the check in the Ruby and then go to the American turf

if that's the future you want. If you don't want a million.

Dollars in a grade one that's. Because you know what Street

Beast reminds me of Endlessly. And I was, I was really high on

Street Beast going into the Breeders Cup as well.

I, I loved his win at Kentucky Downs.

He won two races at Kentucky Downs.

So I talked about that. But she's so spicy.

Last week he was one of those horses that won, won one race

and then came back a week later, won another race and it was a

stakes race. And so he is.

And then he he had that month off, he came back, ran very well

in the Breeders Cup against a top European horse and Gestat

was fourth in that race, ran his best Equibase Speed Figure in

that race and by. The way the 2nd place finisher

in that race is, is a California-based horse named

Stark Contract. He came back to.

What a steak race the next out so that that that Breeders' Cup

Juvenile turf field is very strong.

He was all parts of it, comes back immediately, wins the

turfway. He's a serious.

Horse and he's he's a Kentucky based horse with the Breeders

Cup coming up at Keeneland. I mean, I don't know if he's

going to end up being, you know, a three-year old taking on older

in the Breeders Cup turf at the end of the year, the mile or

something at the end of the year.

But I mean he's in the right spot.

So if you think that, I mean that this Turfway series is a

good setup for him to kind of just stay local, get some more

experience under his belt, kind of keep building his physical.

And then pop up on whether it be the Kentucky Derby or the

American turf. If it is the American turf, pop

up in that race when it comes time.

And then just move forward from there on the grass.

Go to those big options in New York.

Come back to Kentucky Downs and see what you got in Keeneland.

Almost $900,000 in earnings in five races.

Yeah, he's doing OK. Yeah, I'd say so.

I'll pay some bills. Yep.

I would like, I would like to like to get that horse.

Oh man, well the good stuff for sure.

Appreciate all of them. What are you pointing out here?

You just looking at the auction? You mentioned that, so almost

$900,000 in personal money off an $85,000 buy at the OBS spring

sale to say the past April. So.

Show not to obs. Yeah, add those to the stats.

I guarantee you they already did.

Yeah, that one's already out there.

I mean, that's the first talk about a return on investment and

you're 5 starts in, you're already well, well, well, well

over that. There you go.

Well, Speaking of money, $3,000,000 race in South Florida

this weekend. 0 sweet should probably talk about that.

Yeah. Should we talk to Brian Nadeau?

I think so. All right, we'll talk to Brian

Nadeau. He's from Gulf St.

Park. We'll do that next, right?

Again, thanks to our sponsor today, the Longines World Racing

Awards. You can watch those tomorrow on

the IFHA YouTube channel. That'll start around 8:40

Eastern Time and you can see which races and which horses

were crowded the very best in 2025.

So go check them out again tomorrow, January 20th around

8:40 Eastern Time on the International Federation of

Horse Racing Authorities YouTube channel.

Got all that great stuff for you, guy who's near where

they're going to have the Eclipse Awards.

Very jealous of this, even though I apparently it's not

terribly warmed out there. Brian Nadel from down at

Gulfstream Park. What is here on Blood Horse

Monday? Did you tell me off air?

It's in the 40s down there. Yeah, when I woke up this

morning it was it was in the 4th.

So it's I don't want to say it gets cool down here.

It happens, you know, every now and again.

But I think for the weekend everything's going to be prim

and proper and it's going to warm up a little bit for the big

game tonight. As I was saying, you guys, yeah,

it's going to be football weather tonight.

Remember I I went to the Pegasus in 2022, the next go life is

good Pegasus and it was around like that 40° I think, like in

the morning and at night time for that year.

And I remember I was riding in an Uber and this is something

that I wasn't used to being from up here.

I was riding an Uber and I was hearing alerts.

Be aware of, you know, falling lizards out of.

The tree, how cold it was. And I was like, all right,

that's not something I hear in Kentucky every day.

It's the thing, yeah, falling iguanas.

I think if it's like 3 days in a row where it's under 45 or

something like that, you got to you got to walk, walk around

like that under the tree. Well, be careful Brian.

Watch for falling iguanas. Certainly the the Gulfstream

year in 2025 was an interesting one.

Obviously you get the Derby winner out of your Derby trail

last year in Sovereignty to Pan St. eventually the winner of

that Florida Derby. What kind of year was 2025 down

there? Yeah, it was it was cool.

I mean, every every winter we look forward to seeing the newly

minted 3 year olds and what happens and how they develop.

And last year was, you know, amazing because as you said, we

got to see sovereignty win the fountain of youth and kind of

announce himself maybe on the national scene.

And then he didn't even win the curl in Florida Derby to Pan St.

did. And and then sovereignty goes on

to win the Kentucky Derby and to Pan Streets a pretty, you know,

pretty big player in the Pegasus on Saturday.

So he can kind of sort of maybe redeem himself is not the right

word, but but but kind of reintroduce himself on the

national scene because, you know, unfortunately, who knows

how he would have run in the Kentucky Derby, but he wasn't

able to to do that. So I think it's pretty cool that

he's back and, you know, it's a newly turned bigger, stronger 4

year old this year. So it never fails to deliver

each and every winter here. It's my fifth one at Gulfstream.

It'll be my 5th Pegasus. And it's a it's an interesting

the the way things shake out lilying in that everything is

Pegasus. And then as soon as it ends,

everything, you know, Fountain of Youth, Holy Holy Bullets the

next week, and then Fountain Youth in Florida Derby, and of

course, obviously the Kentucky Derby.

Well, you mentioned you've been to the last five Pegasus and so

you had a front row seat last year to White a barrio winning

the race. He's back this year trying to

become the first two time winner of the Pegasus and it's 10th

running. Just what are your what were

your thoughts on his performance last year and can he do it again

this year? Yeah, his performance last year

was just dazzling. I mean, he he was stunning.

He was the best horse and he delivered and it was just really

cool to see because he's a horse that, you know, almost we've

kind of grown up with down here. We, we saw him win the Florida

Derby as a three-year old and he's the house horse, you know,

and even though he did go away for a little bit to a different

barn, you know, we've always had our eyes on him and and always

rooted for him. So it was really cool to see him

deliver last year. Can he get it done this year?

You know, we're gambling here. I, I, I have to play against

him. It's just certainly not the path

he took last year. I think that everybody knows

that. And and you know, Sappy Joseph

Junior is an amazing trainer and if he's in the gate and ready to

go, you know, he's I just feel like that it's it's a big ask

with all that's happened and and even, you know, the layoff and

all everything that we know. It's a big ask.

He didn't get his prep like he did last year, Mr. Prospector.

So we're all rooting for him, but in terms of a gambling, you

know, sense he's very likely going to be a big underlay and

it's a big ask. Well, Speaking of a house horse

that a lot of people like we get once again are going to be

treated at Gulfstream Park to the running of Skippy

Longstocking, another horse in the Saffy Joseph barn.

What has it been like watching him?

I think he he just came out of what, his 10th graded stakes

win, something like that. By the way, this is what

everyone tells me they want. Everyone poops on Skippy

Longstocking's record, but he's going to make his 30, 112 races

already. Brian, I love the I love horses

like this. Yes, yes, and yes.

You guys put it perfectly. It's going to be his fourth

Pegasus in a row. Wow, it's remarkable.

He was third in the race last year.

He won the Harlan's holiday, the local prep and he did it off a

layoff and he did it getting passed by it.

You know, a younger up and coming horse and poster and he

re rallied late. Louie, you said it perfectly.

If you can't root or like Skippy Longstocking and what he's did,

go go find something else to to do with your time.

Because you know, we, we hem and Haw and we complain that the

when these horses, you know, disappear after their three-year

old year. And here he is now is a newly

turned 7 year old with over 3 million in the bank.

It's remarkable. He's such a lunch pail kind of

horse, you know. Is he a Pegasus World Cup

winning horse? No, he's not.

Let's, you know, be honest. But that doesn't take away

anything he's done in a really remarkable career.

All the grade at stakes wins, all the Grade 1 placings in the

fourth, fourth year in a row. And you know you wouldn't drop

over if he ran hit the board in this race at all.

I agree. Son of Exaggerator, by the way,

I'm old enough to remember Exaggerator.

How about that? Yeah, how about that 7 year old?

It's Skippy. You know, this race every year,

Brian, we always wonder who's going to get invited, who's

going to show up, etcetera. Just with the especially the

emergence of that two race stop now in the Arabian Peninsula.

But when you get a horse, let's say like, like a full Serrano

who comes in a Breeders' Cup winner himself, you know,

multiple Breeders' Cup winners in this race, safe to say that

this still has, you know, all of the trappings of a Grade 1.

Yeah, I, I, I agree for sure. Louis, $3,000,000 is, you know,

in a historic grade one race. Don't forget this used to be the

Dodd. The Don Yep.

This is a race that goes back in the annals of time and

$3,000,000, nobody scoffs at that, nor should they.

That's a big, big number. And, you know, full Serrano, the

California contingent is so strong in all three World Cup

races this year. You know, I guess full Serrano

probably is at the top of the list.

I know Cabo spirits a little lower in terms of a morning line

in the turf race. But full Serrano, as you said,

he's a he's a Breeders' Cup dirt mile winner and and that's got a

lot of cachet. So it's pretty cool that that

John Sadler and Rome's racing opted to send him over here.

And you know, if he can get back to his best, it's a it's another

kind of almost why Debarrio esque situation can pull Serrano

get back to his best and deliver because if he can, he's a big,

big player in this race. Maybe 9 furlongs is a is a

bridge a little too far for him. But he's got the right kind of

running style around here to make a big dent if it, you know,

if he can bring his best on Saturday.

We're talking with Brian Nadeau from down there at Gulfstream

Park, a set of four year olds, newly aged, newly newly made 4

year olds, if you will, in this race, including the pair of Brad

Cox runners, but also horses like Poster or Captain Cook in

this spot. And you know, we're I, I hope, I

really hope we're entering an era where more and more of these

top three-year olds come back as 4 year olds.

Obviously we're talking about a sovereignty and a journalism and

a magnitude and those kinds of horses, these four year olds in

this race, how many of them do you think can be contributors to

that kind of level of a class this year?

You know, it's an interesting question and it it's almost an

an exact it's the perfect question for this year's Pegasus

because I think in the past we've had the Knicks go the air

gates to start the gun runners. OK, city of light that Knicks go

life is good. Those were already superstar

horses and we do have way to barrio this year.

I readily admit that. And he is a superstar, but I

think this Pegasus more than I don't know more than anything I

can remember, I think has these kinds of horses that you're just

talking about that are up and comers that are trying to reach

that superstar level. And, you know, disco time might

well be there. And he's absolutely at the top

of that newly turned 4 year old list.

But as you said, poster for, you know, good dolphin with a huge

pedigree and to pan St. the Florida Derby winner and and

Captain Cook who fired such a big shot first time Fletcher and

the jerkin. So these are all horses that are

trying to get there. Is it Saturday?

I I don't know. We also have to be honest that

they're they're at this point and their development somewhat a

little slower. Captain Cook, I think is a

little more unproven at this trip, although he's had success

against obviously much lesser Madacat Rogue didn't even

mention him for Baffert. Is he more of a one turn horse?

He's a one time winner, you know, to Pan St.

Obviously he's the last horse to beat the very likely horse of

the year in sovereignty, but man, his comeback.

He was all out and quite frankly didn't look very good.

So all of these horses are going to have to improve.

Poster Another one couldn't get by Skippy Longstocking in the

Harlan's Holiday. We like we said, we all love

Skippy. I don't necessarily think he's a

huge threat to win this race. So they all have to improve.

But the good thing is as bigger, stronger, meaner 4 year olds now

that are all for the most part very likely race.

You know that that they have that eligibility to do so.

You know, we saw journalism just in the Breeders Cup Classic run

the race of his life probably, and it wasn't good enough

against older horses. I think your point is well

taken. That's why I wanted to ask about

it, because I do think it's an interesting part of this race.

And I mean, this race is essentially going to set the

stage for the rest of the year. It's going to give us an idea.

We're going to be sticking with them with the old horses that we

know. Or are we going to be expecting

this year to be full of the new horses coming in?

And so this would be a good race that sets up for that.

Back when the Pegasus started 10 years ago, it was just this

race, the myelin leaf on the dirt.

A few years later, the Pegasus World Cup Turf was added in and

then then the Philly and Mare Turf.

How much do those two turf races really kind of help to, you

know, increase, increase this card and make it more of, you

know, one of our traditional big race days as we think of it?

Yeah, I, I think the addition of the turf obviously was huge

because it's been so well supported over the years.

It's turned into, we don't have any this year, but it's turned

into an international race where they've sent some big hitters

from Europe, which is pretty darn cool too.

And I think honestly, anytime you throw $1,000,000 out there

and it's a grade one race, it's a big deal because they don't

run for real money in Europe all that often.

So I think it has kind of gotten a few of those sources because

of that. And you know, bricks and mortar

one. And he turned out to be just an

amazing, amazing horse. So I think that was the first

edition. I think right off the RIP, the

fact that that Chad Brown and Seth Karman sent him here and

that that really I think established the the turf as a as

an important, important race, a great a legitimate grade one

race. And it's been won by, you know,

grade one kind of horses in the past.

Philly mayor turf, I think is is still trying to get a foothold.

They, you know, they really are trying to make this a grade one

kind of race. And, and I think this year, the

depth of this race this year, I mean, I've got a nine to two

morning line favorite. That shows you right then in and

of itself how competitive the race is this year and how deep

it is this year. And you could honestly make a

case that you say, you know, Brian, what the heck are you

doing? This horse could be favored.

There could be 8 different favorites in the race just

depending on who they want to bet on.

So I think that race came up really tough this year.

Is it a grade one race? You know, not this year, no.

But in the past we've it's been won by grade one horses.

Regal Glory was a awesome, awesome mare for for Chad Brown

and I think I think the the depth in the competition this

year is Grade 1 esque. I was just going to ask you

which, because you make the morning lines at Gulfstream

Park, which one was the most difficult to put together,

right? It sounds good.

That's a friendly there, right? Yeah.

By the way, if someone told me their favorite year by a horse

in North America in a while was bricks and mortar in 2019, I

would not be mad at them. That was such a fun freaking

ride with him. He was spectacular that year for

sure. Talk with Brian Nadeau down

there at Gulfstream Park. Is there another race on the car

that you either had a tough time putting together the morning

line that you're especially looking forward to on Saturday?

Well, the. Hooper, I mean, come on.

Yeah, Life and Times and Knightsbridge classing is an

absolute treat. I mean, you're talking about

Louis. We talked about the, you know,

the guys, the four year olds. Well, here you go, right here.

OK, I know they're both 5, but I'm talking like horses that are

potentially racing's next stars, superstars.

And Knightsbridge now is scary as hell because he's finally

putting races together and he was good in the Mr. Prospector.

I don't think he was dazzling, which is I think very scary for

everybody because it was somewhat Workman like.

But he does think so easily that I think maybe you don't give him

the credit that he deserves. But now you got Life and Times

for the home bread for Michael Tabor and those famed, you know,

my goodness, all the way back to Thunder Gold silks for years.

Those those orange and blue silks, I love them.

And Todd Pletcher and you've got a gelded son of Justify who

didn't even debut till November of his four year old campaign.

And that's wild. And here he comes in with what

is it, 1212 1/2 lengths combined in his two races with, you know,

very fast figures. You want to talk about an acid

test? He's now on the rail with

Knightsbridge, you know, staring them down to the outside.

And I can't wait to see the showdown because of that.

That is a real, real treat at a mile and at a Gulfstream Park,

one turn mile, you know, a lot like you might see at at a

Belmont Park or Churchill Downs, you are flat to the board.

So that's a throw down race. And 2:41 in the PM on Saturday.

I think a lot of people, a lot of fans are going to be watching

that race. You know, you got two horses.

I haven't done the line yet, but you know, you probably got,

honestly, you got two horses that are probably 6:00 and 7:00

to 5:00. It's you know, there's going to

be gambling races on Saturday. This is not necessarily one of

them, but man, what a treat it looks like on paper.

So I think that's the one. I would think anybody you talked

to this week guys is that's probably going to be non

Pegasus. That's going to be the race.

I agree by the way, Life and Times, because he is Gelden has

a has a chance if he if he keeps developing to be a Whitmore type

where he's just running for a long time, especially in in

sprints or in one turn miles this kind of race.

I mean, this is he's an obvious candidate around Derby time for

races like the Knicks go, et cetera.

I mean, like he just stands out as that kind of horse.

And frankly, as we go to Keeneland, unfortunately it's a

two turn, but I mean dirt Mile kind of talk shouldn't not

happened with him. Like I think he's that good

already and it should be a lot of fun there in the Hooper.

Well, Brian, we appreciate you. If you want to hear some more in

depth handicapping, Brian will join me on Rabo Anco on ESPN

Louisville 10:20 AM on Friday Eastern Time if you are

interested for that conversation.

Brian have a great Pegasus. And does Sovereignty win Horse

of the Year? I'm not allowed to vote anymore,

Louis, but I didn't have the podcast on that with my votes.

Yeah, come on. What a what a horse, right?

He's got to. He didn't lose anything by by

not winning the not appearing in the Breeders Cup.

So what a campaign, what a horse.

And just quickly, I mean, how about so cool that he's coming

back at 4. You know, we're not going to

here, but that's not the point. It's just kudos to to the

connections for for bringing them back because as as you guys

hinted at, and I wholeheartedly agree with, that's what we need

in this sport. So that's great.

All right, Brian, appreciate you.

Talk to you Friday friend and have a great week down.

There. Yeah, you too.

I appreciate it, guys, always. Thank you.

No problem. There you go.

Brian Nadeau. By the way, we need to check on

Safi. It's in the 40s.

I mean, my, my man's got that Barbadian thing.

I don't know. I'm worried about him.

I don't know. I don't know.

You're not worried? About Saffy, go ahead and give

him a call. I mean, I'm worried about Saffy.

Just, you know, you got a man bun like that.

You can't have it be in the 40s. It's not how it works.

That's not how this works. I'm worried about Saffy.

I don't like this at all. Well, he's got, he's got 2 good

shots, Skippy, long stuff. He's kind of a bunch of great.

Shots on his car. He's going to be fine for sure.

Yeah, he'll he'll warm up by the you would you'd never, you would

have never met me. You have a different perspective

on this because he's obviously going to be a lot warmer in that

kind of weather than you are considering he's got more hair.

You know what, that's a good point by you.

Maybe it's me that we need to check on, who knows?

All right, well, thank you to Brian.

He will join me on Friday on ESPN Louisville.

You're welcome to join us there for that as well.

Of the, the Pegasus thing, man, it's so fascinating the whole

weekend. I'm so glad that they've

expanded the card. I appreciated your question as

well about adding those turf races.

I think of those warmer weather climates as the places I really

like. I, you know, we, we, we, we did

an episode earlier in 2025 about, you know, what, what's

going on in California and, and as far as racing and what's what

the best races to card. I always love when I see a nine

race card in San Anita because I know five are going to be on the

green stuff and I love that stuff.

And I until last couple weeks, good sense of what the weather

was going to be like as well. And so having, you know, this

level of turf racing in January, Gulfstream Park, I think is

absolutely necessity, a necessity.

So it's it's nice to see. Us give some options.

I mean you hear all the time, you know, trainers talking about

we don't like if we have a turf horse that's up here, we don't

usually have a lot of options for them once the winter comes

around. So you're almost forced into

into a couple months layoff. But if your horse is doing well

and you're somebody who's going to go down South and you have a

top level horse, this is probably one of your few

opportunities to really get them and get them another run here

until it's springtime. Yeah, at that grade one level,

at least on on this side of the country, you'll have a couple

opportunities out out in California.

But but yeah, keep it. Keeps horses in training, keeps

them going. And it looks like two more very

fantastic races on the grass this weekend.

Yeah, no doubt about it. There's a turf Sprint, by the

way, in the middle of this car, the Gulfstream Park Turf Sprint.

That's a creative name, A. Creative name race 7.

It's part of like no important part of the sequence, but in it

is an absurd number of great turf sprinters.

Everything from Coppola to Kadem is in this thing.

Litigation is running. Eamon is in this race and Kato's

in here. So so a summer Full disclosure

is in here. My boyfriend Sam, the shams on

the also eligibles and he just won a Gulfstream Park.

No, no, this is that's a fun field dude.

I I I'm excited for Saturday. I think it's gonna be a lot.

A lot of fun. We we just talked with Rich

Mendez and she's so spicy this past weekend and how they're

going out to the Middle East because there's not really many

top level options for them here. I mean, this is a, this is a

what, 100? 75,000 listed but.

It doesn't listed and so you see like where you know some of

these turf forces are kind of get squeezed out during the

winter time of not having the good the big spots.

But I feel like this and this race is 1.

If you could keep getting that's going over the next couple of

years, this is a race that you can see maybe increase in

stature. Maybe maybe we called out the

Pegasus World Cup turf Sprint at some point down the line.

But I I like seeing Cadem in this spot.

He's, you know, the grade. Yeah, won the grade 2 at

Keeneland. He won the great was third in

the turf Sprint at behind. She's so spicy, Bullet.

All right. The British Cup season.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then he went out to

Hong Kong. Didn't run too well there.

I mean, he, he got to run against Kai Ying Rising.

He went to shot 10. They shipped that horse to shot

10 man. He's back.

They want to see him back. I agree with you.

Talk talk about little options in the US.

There's nothing in Europe for you right now.

So Egan gets the ride there. He's on fire right now at Gulf

St. Park.

So that's an interesting one. I just hold cards.

Going to be a ton of fun for sure.

All right, let's time to talk to our editor.

Speaking of South Florida, time to get jealous.

Let's talk to Frank Eggs. All right, continuing along with

this version of Blood HORSE Monday 51st, the 1st 51st

edition. Don't forget how to talk now.

Man, oh man. Get into that later on, but if

we are presented by the launching World Racing Awards

along with laws sheets, World Racing Awards are tomorrow,

Tuesday, January 20th. They celebrate the best horses,

the best races from around the planet and you can TuneIn on the

International Federation of Horse Racing Authorities YouTube

page tomorrow morning about 8/30, 8:40 AM.

Eastern Time to see which horses and which races are crowned the

best of 2025. Again, thank you to our friends

over at the Longing World Racing Awards.

Looking forward to seeing those tomorrow morning.

Nice thing about that before my radio show.

So I actually get to watch a fair amount of that before it

gets going. Are you going?

To. Talk about it on your radio

show. Great question.

Here's the problem. Indiana plays in the national

title game tonight. A guy who's going to go to that

game is Frank Gangst. He's down there.

Keep our Southern Florida, South Florida sort of theme going on

the show. Frank, how are you today?

Very good. Yeah.

It was great to see college football cash in on one of the

biggest racing weeks of the year with the Long Teams Awards

Tuesday and then later this week the Eclipse Awards and then the

Pegasus. So college football was like, we

got to get in on that and we'll get down to South Florida.

A couple of people, you know, Frank, I didn't plan to bring

this up, but you, you just did the aforementioned, you know

those, those Eclipse awards, Blood Horse, once again very

prominent in those awards. Yeah, we did did a great,

another great job by our reporters for sure.

Lenny Schulman was saying, I had an honorable mention for a

feature story that he ran on Affirmed and his connections.

And we also won the the photography award with Skip

Dickstein, who shoots for us up at Saratoga.

And it was a very memorable photo.

I think it was seen throughout pretty much anywhere that can

run a photo. We saw that photo of a Rod Ortiz

kind of hanging on for dear life, if everything.

We had a couple really wild stretch moments this year that

was certainly at the gate and at the beginning of the race, but

boy, journalism gave us plenty of those as well.

But Frank eggs with us from blood horse bloodhorse.com.

Frank, I wanted to have you back on because you did a piece that

I I really was so thankful that you did because I feel like so

much of the talk in horse racing is about people's personal

experiences, the things that they feel like they see and

observe rather than actually running the numbers.

You went ahead and did a piece on regulatory vets and

protecting horses at the gate. What was the inspiration for

this and what did you end up finding?

Yeah, I definitely have to credit Jeff Blay a little bit to

begin with. He's the equine medical director

out in California. And he was just wondering how

their regulatory vets were doing.

And he thought a good way of measuring that is to see how

long some of these horses are out after after a vet scratch.

So, so a vet scratch, a regulatory vet scratch, I should

say, this is a scratch where they're, they've evaluated the

horse and for whatever reason, they just don't think it's the

best day for that horse to run, whether it be on soundness or,

or some other issue. So he looked at that and noted

that quite a few of those horses take a long time to come back.

And he thought that very much indicated that that their vets

had prevented what could have been a a situation of concern.

I mean, not all of these horses would have broke down, but it

certainly was enough there to say, let's wait and let's get

this horse riding on a better day.

So he presented those numbers late last year to the CHRB.

And then he went over them again along.

And as it's Scott Cheney, the executive director of the CHRB,

head of Breeders' Cup. So with that, we kind of looked

at the overall numbers in the country.

So oddly enough, California doesn't specify between

scratches. They don't.

So California, they have their own numbers, but there are three

states now that mark that they noted when it's a regulatory

scratch. And some even go beyond that and

say regulatory scratch on soundness, things like that.

And those would be Kentucky, New York and Delaware.

So with those numbers, we just ran them and and just looked at

what they what they pointed to. Yeah, it's interesting you

mentioned New York, you mentioned Kentucky, Delaware,

obviously running these numbers and we're talking with Frank

Gangst find all of his stuff at bloodhorse.com.

The setting these kinds of numbers aside for us moving

forward in a sport where we're very much and should be really

spotlighting safety, something that we I think are doing better

now that we have at any point in history in the sport.

Do you think it do you find it important to to note separately?

Hey, this was a vet scratch. Yeah, I, I think the more

information we have, the better I think it tell we're just in a

better position to tell our story.

I mean, years ago when the breakdown issue at at there was

a breakdown issue at Aqueduct and that gained some national

attention and the industry didn't really, they couldn't

even, they couldn't even really give good numbers because nobody

was really tracking equine injuries.

So other than in Florida. Mary Scalay had done that in

Florida when her time there and she presented that at the Equine

Safety Summit that Grayson puts on.

And that idea took off and it led to the equine injury

database that the Jockey Club overseas.

So now we know if we're doing better or worse.

And the good news is for years and upon years now, it's been

getting better and better the safety numbers.

So that's really encouraging. And, and one of the things that

has been put in place is a more thorough evaluation of these

horses by regulatory vets. That's a good thing to have

because they're neutral, right? You know that they're looking

over these horses and making a decision.

I don't want to go in and all the numbers of the article

because I'm sure I'll get some of them wrong.

But the, the number that stuck with me is 25% of the horses

that were rigged vets scratches under, under the study, they

hadn't returned within a year. So that would seem to indicate

that they had some problem before the race.

And it was, it was probably the right decision.

Obviously every case is going to be its own.

You know, there were probably some horses that were healthy

that were scratched quite right. But but we've seen the other end

of it of how damaging it is to the sport when a horse breaks

down. So there has to be that balance

and it has to fall on the side of safety.

I heard from an owner who who said, you know, I, we, we had a

vet scratch from the stakes this year.

And ultimately I was glad that the horse was scratched because

it's, I guess they just learned more about it and it was the

right decision. And she liked having that final

layer there. And, and I heard from several

others that thought that this study indicated that the vets

are doing an important job. Did hear from one trainer who

said he he feels like he's run into a situation where a vet has

made-up their mind about a horse and it's never going to quite

let approve that horse. So there there are things that

fall on the other. There's concerns on both sides

of it. I I don't deny that and maybe

there should be an appeals process of some kind.

But the point of this, the point of running this story and, and

it was, it was an analysis of it really it was just looking at

these regulatory vets are doing an important job when you look

at the the roll numbers. By the way, Frank looked through

18 months of data from July 1st. Excuse me for 12 months of data.

Excuse me from July. Yeah, we gave we gave an extra 6

months just to see if any of his horses came, but which some of

them did come back. So that gave us, it gave us time

to look at it. And like if a horse was

scratched on the last a week of the last week of the study, they

still had six months to come back.

So that's why we did it that way, yeah.

Yeah, no, no, I'm not questioning the the methodology

virus. So what I'm saying is no is less

than 7% of all the scratches during that time were actually

vet scratches. So it this isn't even, you know,

Frank, the it's not even a quarter of scratches.

It's not 10% of scratches even, right.

We're talking about 6.8% or so of these being vet scratches in

this case. And so, you know, I know it's

some places are more vet scratches than others for sure.

And, and I've talked to people that are frustrated by what they

feel like is too many, but it, it's still that kind of number.

Frank does stand out to me. If it's under, you know, one in

I guess what, 13 horses or something like that, or a total

scratches, I should say, not even horses, but total scratches

being from this it, it probably is more often than not a good

final safety measure here. I mean that in the IT should be

the total. There's a lot of reasons a horse

can be scratched. Like sure, we've just been

entered in another race that they decided to go to.

So that that's what part of reason.

It's a low percentage for sure. And then also you have a

percentage of horses that you know, the trainers and the

private vets that look over these horses that they're the

most familiar with the horse every day.

They're, they're the first line of defense and they're doing a

great job too of keeping, you know, making sure horses are

done right and, and run when they're full, you know, when

they're fully ready to run. So, so that everybody has

improved their job, improved their vigilance and it shows up

in the overall safety numbers with the decline and breakdowns.

Yeah, because there's a part of this that's going to be

subjective, you know, you know, if you're a lawyer, you call it

the practice of law. If you're a doctor, you call it

the practice of medicine. Frankly, we're talking about

veterinarians. This is this is medicine.

And so it's it's a practice at this point, Frank, and it's

always going to be in some, you know, sort of, you know,

capacity. But, you know, between these

monitors during workouts and, and, you know, and, and being

vigilant at the gate, this kind of thing, I think we're

generally moving in a better direction.

Yeah. And it, it's, it's a sensitive

thing and I think everyone should understand on both sides,

these regulatory vets are, they're the ones making the

final decision and that that's a lot of pressure on that.

And they're these numbers point that they're doing a good job.

Sure, there's things that can probably be improved and

hopefully that continues to improve.

And then you have the other side of it where the connections have

been pointing for maybe four to six weeks for a race.

And then maybe they've even, maybe it's even involved the

horse shipping somewhere and the owners have flown out and made

arrangements. So, so it is a tough decision

when these horses are scratched, but it's done for the right

reasons. I mean, if you're taking out

horses out of a race that that could be in some level of extra

danger that that's what we're looking to do is prevent those

horses from because because it's been shown that minor injuries

are are the leading minor injuries are connected to these

catastrophic breakdowns that we see.

So if you can take the horses out with that, not let them race

and have minor injuries, give them time to recuperate the the

bones remodel, they rebuild themselves and then the horse

can be perfectly safe and fine to to run in an after a certain

amount of time of. Rest Frank Hanks with us

bloodhorse.com You can also find all of his work in what's called

the dollars and Cents com column.

Of course, the dollars were taken out of Santa Anita this

weekend, Frank, as the removal of the on demand games happened

and was photographed and all the things there at Santa Anita.

Let's go back to the beginning. What were these machines, what

were they based on, etcetera, as far as wagering that made Santa

Anita confident that they could in fact install these?

Yeah, so the the the owners of Santa Anita First Racing, they

had looked over the rules, the way that they're written in

California and they felt like these machines were legal.

They're para mutual machines, which means people bet into the

pool, money comes off the top and then the all that remaining

money is paid out to the to the winning, to the winners.

The winning combinations are determined by previously run

horse races and they're since it's all tied to that, they view

it as just another form of para mutual wagering that falls

within the rules and are currently in place in

California. And obviously, I want to get his

first name, Scott De Rudy, who's with who's the senior vice

president out there? First racing, you know, made the

case, Hey, we stand behind our legal analysis.

We sent this to the State Regulatory Commission a a long

time ago. And then this comes down this

way. Obviously we we know the powers

that be in California as far as wagering and and betting and

those kinds of things. Were you surprised this happened

so quickly, Frank? I mean, I, I was surprised that

I didn't know what's going down. I'll say that much credit.

Credit to the Pollock report who had the the story first.

We were well aware that there's been a push to have historical

horse racing machines which are very similar in premise Para

Mutual based on previous races. First racing did make a point

that they feel like these machines are slightly different

categories. So know that.

But you know, you look at Oregon several years ago, first racing,

then Mastronic group actually was even in their earlier group

anyway, the Stronic group, first racing, they they had the racing

license at Portland Meadows. They similarly had put in

machines there, the machines there was kind of a legal debate

for that went on for years and whether they were allowed or

not. There's people at first racing

that still think such machines are allowed in Oregon.

So you know, it's, it's one of these things on how you define

define the law and define the rules in in Kentucky, you had a

Kentucky horse racing Commission that looked at it and said

historical racing is within paramutual wagering and it was

approved and they move forward on that.

And tracks like Kentucky Downs and there's a big hit and now

all the tracks in Kentucky have historical racing or they're

tied to it. You like Keeneland has a

operation at the Red Mile that they do in partnership.

So which, and it's been a huge obviously we've seen the impact

of that with increased purses. California's the other end of

that. They are trying to make a go of

it just on para mutual wagering alone.

They do not have added gaming and that's that's made it

difficult for California. Yeah, no, they definitely need

another revenue stream in this era of horse racing.

And so I'm certain they were hoping this would at least offer

some kind of other Ave. for folks to wager there at the

track, but to no avail, at least for now.

Should be interesting to watch this one moving forward.

You know, in Kentucky, Frank, some of these places got shut

down as well and had to go to the Supreme Court and then they

had to rewrite the law all together.

And so, you know, maybe they're in that kind of cycle in

California as well. I don't know about the shutdown

part. If you're sure of that, that's

fine. But but what did happen?

What did happen is there was a court case that went on and on

and on. And then what finally happened

and then it went to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court

said, you know, we would really like we would really like

lawmakers to step in and say what what is the bottom line on

these? And Damon Thayer and others help

to lead a charge to to get it specifically said that these

these are allowed. These are para mutual wagering.

And and that placated the Supreme Court and everybody was

good. And now Kentucky is is where

it's at. Yeah, probably going to have to

be a similar route there in California if they're going to

have a success with these at least appears for now.

Well, thank. Thank you, Frank.

Enjoy the game tonight. Go Hoosiers, I'm sure and all

the things and I have a nice time.

South Florida. Thanks, Louie.

Thanks, John. There you go, Frank Angst,

joining us here for Blood Horse. bloodhorse.com, our fearless

editor on this thing. There you go.

It was jarring to see those guys in those jackets with like,

hauling machines on. Yes.

And this all happened so quickly that if.

You are. If you're tuning into listening

to us on a weekly basis, you didn't hear hear anything.

You're talking about it all last year because they they came out,

the machines came out on Thursday and by Saturday they

were getting taken out of the racetrack.

So things happened very quickly there.

But I mean, we we talked about it with Damon Thayer last week

and Frank just mentioned him. You know how much that's really

improved racing in Kentucky. I mean, we've been talking about

it on the show nonstop about the purses in Kentucky.

How, you know, everybody's kind of gauging themselves based off

of what's going on in this state that you and I are currently

sitting in right now. And you know, it's really helps

to generate the higher purses and it's really helped to

generate then better competition.

Our races, even just on when you go out, a normal Wednesday at

Churchill Downs or Ellis Park or wherever you're going, Turfway

right now. Turfway last Wednesday had 7

fields of 12 and 1 field of nine.

Yes, and that's because of the historical racing machine.

So obviously, you know, a state like California that doesn't

have any of those extra sources of wagering really, really need

something like that in order to stay competitive.

We've seen Golden Gate shut down last year.

We have seen the Northern California tracks struggling to

try to get something the the County Fair tracks trying to get

something going up there and it hasn't worked out.

And a lot of that is because of that.

There's a lot of, you know, the, a lot of the law there is kind

of set up because of all the tribal gaming in the area.

That's why a place like California is struggling to get

these any kind of extra gaming, whether it be historical racing

machines, slots, the machines that they put out this past

week. That's why there's been a

struggle is because a lot of that, the tribal influence on

the gaming side of things. And I don't even think they have

sports wagering. They do not have sports wagering

in California. So you know that that's the

that's what they're up against out there.

And so they in. Other words, if you want to know

how strong the lobby is out there, DraftKings hasn't gotten

through, FanDuel on the sports side has not gotten through and

it's it look it is it is a very stagnant.

Wagering situation in California and unfortunately horse racing

is part of the stagnation. It just is.

But but the benefit of this, you know, they took the shot

obviously I, I can't imagine that they were surprised that,

you know, law enforcement was then on top of it within just a

few days. That's probably why they did not

go and announce it publicly, that they putting them in until

they were already in would be my guess.

And so it'll be interesting to see how this comes out, whether

or not they can make the proper pitch.

They had alerted, I believe they alerted the CHRB ahead of time.

I think you mentioned that it's all public record.

Yeah. So it's all, it's all been

talked about with the right people.

So now, now I guess we're we're going to enter the legal side of

this and see whether or not they can get the same kind.

Of thing to happen. Like, I wonder if that's the

motivation here, just to get litigation started, just to get

it started. Force the issue almost make you

make you have to talk about it instead of it just being

theoretical for us to. You and I were.

You and I were at Monmouth last summer.

It took nine times before they got to the Supreme Court and

sports betting was legal in this country. 9 times he had to file.

OK. Do you think of California as

any easier to get through than the federal government?

I don't OK. Yes.

So obviously, I think. Sometimes you have to you have

to upset the apple cart to at least talk about the apple cart.

Exactly, yes. And I think that's where they're

at. And honestly, I mean for for

those who have not read this story yet, essentially what you

were doing is you had you had three races, 3 old races, none

of them from the state of California.

So that way, you know, people that go to the track every

single day aren't like, oh, I remember this race.

So I know which horses were which horses are going to run

well here. It would honestly be like

Ruidoso Downs 1948. Yeah, is one of the races and

not kidding, Yes. Right.

It would be 3 races you'd have, you'd pick the, you'd

essentially pick three horses from those three races that

would finish in the trifecta. So essentially you've got,

you've got nine shots to get a horse to get three horses in the

top three. And that's how you, how you'd

win the bet, I believe. And then I think if you, if you

ended up getting more than that, I think you won more.

If I read, read our stories on bloodhorse.com that Byron King

did last week, because they'll have the exact details.

I'm going off a memory on that one.

The game sounded interesting. They sounded fun.

I, I might have checked those out when I was there.

That's kind of. By the way, Ruidoso was built in

the 40s. Eat it.

How about that? Yeah, a little knowledge.

I might have gotten the order on going to the Supreme Court and

then shutting down HHR on this state.

Wrong. But Ruidoso, what's up?

Yeah. How about that?

Yeah. So.

Yeah, just so something for us to keep an eye on out there in

California as they're trying to find something to supplement

their purses. If that could get approved,

that's, I mean that would be. This is what I'm saying is I

think they think they've run into the wall so often asking

legislators to help them out that it's just simply a waste of

time to do that. I think no one in the very few

people in the California Legislature care about San Anita

enough to help them with these kinds of this kind of wagering

where they can be open more days, More people working, by

the way, more people working. Someone's got to be there on the

stack bar. Somebody's got to be there to

make sure the machines are running.

Somebody's got to be there to let people in and park them and

do everything else. Yeah, I also want to go back to

Frank's original topic that we got started with there and the

vet scratches and everything too.

So, so obviously this TuneIn to bloodhorse.com to read this

story, read everything we're talking about here.

Great part about having Frank on as it gives us a little update

on the non racing non like the things happening in racing that

aren't the races themselves. And so this study that he did

with the with the vet scratches is definitely needed.

One. I've always said being a

regulatory vet is kind of like the thankless job because you're

either getting, you're either getting screamed at because you

scratched a horse that people think shouldn't have been

scratched, or you're getting screamed at because you didn't

scratch a horse that ended up having an injury.

Practice of medicine. I wasn't kidding when I brought

up that point. And so for to actually have some

data now that's showing, you know, there is a, a positive to

a lot of the things that they're doing.

I mean, think back to the Breeders Cup and the discussions

that we've had when White Barrio was scratched at the gate, how

much that brought added attention to the issue when

Mystic Dan was scratched the day before, when all all sorts of

these. Scratches, maybe examples of

three, you know, oh, traveling got a state?

I'm like, yeah, three at the Breeders Cup 2 for Kenny Mcpeak

alone. But so like, you know, it's been

a constant, constant debate back and forth of, you know, the

connection saying the horse was fine and that, you know, the

vets scratching them. Anyway, now that we can actually

see some kind of data, there's something to now point at to be

like we'll look at this, where this number of horses, are there

going to be horses scratch that could have ran without issue?

Yes. Are there going to be horses

miss that should have been scratched?

Yes. But we're trying to limit how

much that happens and there's some actual data now, some

actual proof now that it looks like a lot of this, quite a few

of these scratches have helped the horses long term health

because they haven't come back to the races afterwards for a

long period of time afterwards. That's a sign that there was

something wrong. There's been times before where,

you know, I've had a trainer tell me like, you know, we were,

we're ready to run. The horse was scratched by the

vet and then when we went ahead and did another like more

thorough deep dive, we found something.

And then the horse ended up being off for a couple months

because of that. But they got it soft.

So there's that side of it as well.

To have some actual stats, some actual proof to go along with

those claims is great. Do you I?

I don't know if you so you know, we had Eric Cable back a couple

weeks ago on the show. He's a high school football

referee. Do you think he wants to get

calls wrong? No.

No, of course not. But does he have a thankless

job? Yes, right.

High school football referee is very thankless.

The Broncos was an interception. Of course, no.

But this is the point like, but what I'm getting at is those

thankless jobs, especially the veterinarian side of it, we need

to be doing these studies. We need to know if you're doing

a good job or not. And by the way, I would like to

think that the veterinarians agree with what I just said.

We need to do the studies and know if they're doing a good job

or not because they need to adjust what they're doing.

If they're doing a bad job or if they're doing a good job, how do

we make it bet you're doing an even better?

Job and think about being think about being one of those vets

you only ever hear the hear the complaints.

You never hear the positive. So that like actually actually

read like, you know, I am making, I am making a.

Difference. He's doing a good job that's

right with these. Horses, you know that That's

definitely a good thing as well. All right, Pegasus this weekend,

my friend. Can I be negative for a second?

Potentially. OK, you and I voted on Eclipse

Awards. Eclipse Awards will happen this

week. Did you vote for a horse that

won one of the Pegasus races? Because I don't think I did.

No, I'm trying to remember who won the Philly Mayor turf last

year. No, I don't have any of them

included now. Is it time of year or is it

who's running? Or is it that like if you had a

good 2025 now is what you're shooting for is this race rather

than starting your 26 campaign kind of thing?

I think it's a lot to do with timing.

I think it's a lot to do a lot. To do with.

Timing, so maybe it's. Not the negative.

The original idea with the timing, I believe came from,

well, it was the goal of trying to catch the horses that were on

the upswing coming out of the Breeders Cup that were pointing

towards the Middle East, while also keeping the horses that

we're going to retire post Breeders' Cup around for one

more race before the breeding season.

And it worked for a couple years, you know, debuted with

the $12 million purse that first year.

You got the Arrogate versus California Chrome, which it was

the exact thing that I just said.

Arrogate was on the upswing preparing to go to the Middle

East. And I think it was the Saudi Cup

wasn't around yet at that time, but it was preparing to go to

the Dubai World Cup. And California Chrome was going

to do his one last goodbye before retiring off to the

Breeders Shed. So you had you had that kind of

idea. You even think just a couple

years ago. Same thing with Life is Good and

Nick's Go. In 2022, Nick's Go was about to

retire. Life is Good was on the upswing

coming out of the Breeders Cup into that year.

It seems like maybe the Saudi Cup has gone into this a little

bit and maybe stealing some horses.

No, horses are now sitting out and waiting.

I mean, right now we're what, we're 3, three weeks away or 4

weeks away from the Saudi Cup. It would be very difficult to

rob this place so. That's a quick turn around.

It's. A reasonable thing.

To but so you know that that plays a little bit into it where

you're going to point for the $20 million race instead of the

$3,000,000 race, I think. But then it now with the purse

being 3,000,000 instead of 12 million.

It's not keeping the fierceness of the Sierra Leone from

retiring when they did. They're not sticking around for

one more race and then then going to retire.

So it it's kind of then that interesting.

But now that that being said, it's so a great feel.

It's going to be a very competitive.

Race. I think it's a great race to Pan

St. wins. Does it set up a trio of four

year olds or maybe 5-4 year olds or something that we're just

excited? About to Pan street I think.

If he adds himself to that less sovereignty journalism.

I think the best. I think the best thing from an

interest perspective and racing, I'm not saying necessarily like

I'm rooting for him to win or like you could be like, oh, we

need to hand him the race or anything.

But I think to Pan St. winning just because he is the only

horse that's beaten sovereignty over the last year and he he

obviously missed the missed the Triple Crown.

I think from the interest of racing, throwing him back in,

seeing him come out on top in a field like this.

I mean maybe disco time too. He was hurt and missed the

missed the Triple Crown as well. But no, he's 4.

He's 4 too. That's right.

OK. But the fact that Tapan St. hat

did beat Sovereignty as a three-year old, and we can we

can get in all sorts of debates on why, why I still think

Sovereignty was the best horse in that in that race

specifically. There was a reason I think

Sovereignty still came out as a heavier favorite in the Derby

than Tapan St. was before he scratched, but it would create

the interesting talking points. No, not about it.

He's back. He's winning dominantly.

Let's see. You could tell me a horse was

the best, but one of them won. His name was to Pan St. and

that's what it's about, right? So at the end of the day, build

up the reading. For that for sure, I always want

to remind you about the magazine.

So go ahead, we'll put that up on screen.

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bloodhorse@bloodhorse.com For Sean.

I'm Louis. Can I run 9 furlongs in under 2

minutes? Find out next week.

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