BloodHorse Monday 2/9/26 | Mark Casse

Right, welcome in. Thanks for starting your week

with us yet again here on Blood HORSE Monday, 54th rendition of

this thing that we've been trying to do every Monday for

you the last year or so. His name is Sean Collins and I'm

Louis Rebeau. Sean's going to talk quite a bit

today, and I apologize in advance for how he sounds.

He has finally succumbed to all of the travel, all of the

weather, and all of the illness that's travelling around.

He's not even sitting next to me today because he's a gentleman.

And here we are, 4 Derby preps in the books over the weekend,

plenty to get into. We'll talk with trainer Mark

Cassie about his winter silent tactic there in the Southwest at

Oaklawn Park. 1,000,000 bucks on the line there and they go ahead

last to 1st in that one. And of course, others around the

country I thought were very interesting.

We'll also talk with our guy right from right here at Blood

Horse, Eric Mitchell. Get into a little bit of the

breeding season up ahead, of course, the sales man.

We are not far away, Sean, from those as well.

Busy, busy in the world of horse racing seems to never slow down.

How you feeling? How you doing All right?

You doing? You living a dream?

What's going on? Yeah, I'm doing all right back,

back from Arkansas this weekend. I think after anybody, anybody

who listened to the show last week that remembers me getting

stuck in the Miami airport for 26 straight hours, I think that

lack of sleep finally caught up to me on the 8 hour drives to

and from Oakland Park. So that that that's why we're

sitting apart today. But we're still making our way

through great weekend, the racing.

So that definitely lifted the spirits, that's for sure.

Yeah, Sean caught up with Marcasi and the Barnes yesterday

at Oakland Park and so you'll see that interview up next after

we go through our take on the Derby preps here again, Eric

Mitchell later in the episode. Sean, interesting time of year,

of course, as we get into these 20 point Derby preps, usually a

little more spaced out than what we just had with two on Friday,

2 on Saturday. Let's get straight into them.

Let's head up to New York and the winner up there, I think a

little bit off the board, but one that if you listen to me on

anything else I told you I thought had a serious shot at

least in that field and on that day and his name is talk to me,

Jimmy. New York bred in this spot here,

Sean and the reason I bring him up as the, you know, number one,

of course he wins the weathers. That part matters for sure, but

that? Part is it?

Really does. The other part of this is just

because we look at a horse and we think that horse isn't going

to win the Kentucky Derby, it doesn't mean that he might not

be there, right? This is a horse that if he likes

Aqueduct enough, go ahead and keep getting points in these

races and getting 20 to start off here.

Not bad. What'd you take away from his

performance? Well, you gotta really like his

performance, especially from the fact that we're running a mile

on an eighth in this race, too. So one of the longer preps that

we've seen up to this point, just the Withers and the Remsen.

The fact that he was able to get up there on the lead and just

keep on going and doing so impressively moving away down

the stretch, 11 lengths, the final margin of victory there.

What was it that tipped you off to him going into it?

What was it that made you made you think that he was the legit

choice? It's so often that we see these

we see these kinds of New York runners.

It's a son of modernist, right? And so we don't think of of him

talk to Eric about this if we wanted to, but we don't think of

him as like this great sire or anything like that, but the the

son of Uncle MO man. And once in a while these New

York breds, when you see them go that one turn mile at Aqueduct,

look very comfortable on the surface itself.

This was his third start over that surface.

I really felt like it was a spot in which he could really excel.

And so frankly, made sense getting out of that Belmont

meet, gets his gets his win in his second ever start.

Sometimes you just need that confidence moving forward.

And frankly, at the end of the day, look, Rudy Rodriguez, say

what you want. If you're getting double digit

odds on a horse in New York with Rudy Rodriguez there, at some

point, Sean, it just becomes the value play that's impossible to

overlook. But again, a son of modernist,

not one that we think of as being on the, you know, of the

caliber of a Derby sire. But boy, we've seen much

stranger things than a son of Uncle MO Sirenga.

Derby siren in this case. Yeah, and he definitely looked

like he wasn't getting tired at the end of that race either,

which makes me think he could get that extra 8th of a mile.

Now, obviously the Derby is going to be a different animal

in terms of pace competition. You're going to have several

horses going going for that lead.

But one of the things I like, and we'll talk about some of the

other winners from this weekend as well.

I felt like we had a we kind of saw a good mix.

We saw the front runner here and Talk to Me, Jimmy, we saw

Plutarch that was kind of sitting off the pace.

We saw some closures coming in as well.

So it looks like at least at this point we're, we're, we're

getting a good mix of horses, I think winning these prep races

and then heading toward the Derby.

So that's a good sign for Talk to Me Jimmy.

It wasn't one of those weekends where we had like 4 wire to wire

winners. We're like, all right, these are

all gonna take each other out when we get to the first

Saturday in May. So definitely, definitely it was

a good run for him. I wonder what they do with him

next as far as do you turn him back to A1, turn mile to Gotham?

Do you wait for the Wood Memorial at this point to get

back to a mile and 8th? But he certainly looked good

running that mile and an eighth there and looked pretty strong

doing so. I'll say this, if I'm in those

connections and I feel like he's fit, I go back to the one turn

mile and I frankly try to qualify for the Derby and the

Gotham. They sent Rodriguez last year.

You never who's know who's gonna show up for 100 point race if

you can win your earlier races or even run second in that race

if he's got 45 points, Sean, I mean, you're, you're talking

about at least a borderline horse.

And I've got to imagine these connections would go ahead and,

and unlike some of the other guests that we've had, the 1920

qualifying horse here would definitely take the spot in the

Derby starting gate. And so I, I, I think you go for

it over the one turn mile before, you know, Baffert

shipped someone in or Chad Brown bring someone back up from

Florida, whatever. Brad Cox needs another spot for

a start or whatever it might be. Go ahead, get it done in the

Gotham because it might be the best spot, the best spot and

best shot. Frankly, for him, yeah, I agree

with that. Get the points while you can get

that points. And yeah, as you said, if you

get even if you run second in the Gotham, that added to the 20

points that you get this weekend from winning the Withers.

I mean, that's going to, that's going to put you pretty in a

pretty good spot. And then then you can kind of

look at the wood as you don't have to be fully cranked for

that race. Just kind of use it as a tune up

into the Kentucky Derby. So I I like the idea of of going

forward with that. The Gotham, of course, as you

mentioned, is a turn back to one mile.

It's a very strange route they have there the reps in and then

this race of course, over the two turns go back to the one

turn for the next one before getting back to two turns in the

wood memorial up there in Aqueduct.

T Sean, I'm Louis hanging out with you on Blood Horse Monday.

By the way, if you are 6 minutes into this episode, you haven't

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the show just like you have Sean.

We'll stay with the other preps on the past weekend.

Renegade wins in the Sam. There is talk that he will stay

in Tampa. If what Mike Ropoli was yelling

in the winner's circle is true, he'll run in the Tampa Bay

Derby. What'd you make of his

performance this weekend? Well, just like we said with

Talk to Me, Jimmy, I mean, why move from Tampa when you're kind

of the top dog down there, right Right now?

I really like this performance. This was the horse that had

beaten Paladin in their debut, but then ended up getting

disqualified from that and placed behind him.

And so he's still he's still was searching for that first career

win. He was second to Paladin, the

Remsen. And to see him make that closing

move, I know maybe, maybe it wasn't the toughest field that

we've seen on the Derby trail up to this point.

But to see him make that strong move around the far turn, keep

going in the stretch and, you know, kind of finish with

something left. I I definitely really liked it.

I feel like sometimes I feel like the Tampa track can play a

little funny. So I like saying that he that

that he liked the track. He got over it.

Well, I definitely think staying at Tampa for the Tampa Bay Derby

is the right move here. And he he looks pretty promising

heading forward, I would think. We did have out of the Tampa Bay

Derby last year, one of the great front runners that

finished in the top five there and I'm forgetting his name.

Is it Owen Almighty at this point?

I've apologized in advance if it was Owen Almighty.

Yes, it is OK. Good.

OK. But what I'm saying is even even

though there is a strange space between the Tampa Bay Derby and

the Kentucky Derby itself, as far as you know, how we think

of, you know, 4-5, six weeks, whatever it might be that people

generally want as their time off.

We saw last year, frankly, you can go ahead and go that route,

figure out other things as well. And so Renegade, by the way,

back-to-back runs, as you point out, goes ahead, beats Paladin

on a debut across the line at least.

And then they flip the the tables there in the Remsen.

Sean, are we looking at another Remsen that is just unbelievably

predictive and important for this year?

It sure looks like it. I mean, Paladin.

We'll talk about it to close the show in the Risen Star this

weekend. Yeah, it certainly seems like it

that Remsen really seems to be like the race to pay attention

to for your two year olds the last couple year, especially

when we get 2 of them that are like when when we see two horses

down the stretch kind of fighting it out for sure.

I'm all for it. Let's let's see Paladin, let's

see Renegade got to keep moving forward.

Let's get a rematch in them at some point down the line.

Let's turn this into a good rivalry.

But yeah, the Remsen just keeps producing.

And I think as we've kind of alluded to just with the Withers

now the, the mile and 8th there, the one opportunity you get at

it as a 2 year old on this Derby trail that seems to maybe that's

been what's been playing into. I know it's been like that for a

lot of years and it's really just the last couple years where

we've been seeing a a big change.

But it really has seemed to have been making an impact on this

Derby trail over the last several years.

Sierra Leone, of course, out of that race, the same race as even

7th place finisher domestic product ended up being a Grade 1

winner out of that. One and you didn't even mention

Doordoc who beat. Here who won two grade ones the.

Next race exactly right. Yes won won the Belmont Stakes.

Yes, it's become a very predictive race for high level

success in the three-year old year for sure.

It appears as though we are on our way to just that, or at

least I hope we're on our way to just that.

You know, it's interesting Sean, too.

And and I'm gonna talk a lot here.

I apologize in advance, but Plutarch runs and wins out West

in the Robert B Lewis. Of course, the past winners of

that list are unbelievable. Either Derby starters like 1000

words or just great horses like Nisos and Citizen Bowl.

The last two years he wins and he's a very different horse than

those two. Those two are milers.

They are fast and the Robert B Lewis is a A2 turn mile there at

Santa Anita Park. And I wrote it another

publication that ahead of the race that I think coming out of

the Lewis, he would be the most likely top end contender for the

Kentucky Derby because I think distance wise, he's just going

to want all of it. But something, something funny

happened over the weekend, which was that Florence Giroux moved

his tack to the West Coast and rode Plutarch.

Like he rides many dirt horses, which is much closer to the

front and having to do a lot less work once you get to the

stretch as far as passing horses, at least now he gets

into a stretch duel. But in that race with him are

two other horses that we thought very highly of coming in Trepido

of Intrepido, excuse me, of course, and and Desert Gate.

And you get him anyway in the stretch running his eyeballs

out. Shawn, he was not slowing down.

He was pulling away at the end of that race.

He might be a race ahead of where I think we are expecting

him to be. I'd be a little surprised to see

him next out at Santa Anita. I expected more probably to go

straight to the Santa Anita Derby and then to the Kentucky

Derby. I got to say it wasn't a fast

race. I think they ran about 1:37.

But that's not what I care about with him as far as the Kentucky

Derby. I care about distance.

And frankly, if he can speed that up by a half second or so,

he's going to be in a spot with that long stretch of Churchill

with a quarter mile to go and he's going to be in a great spot

ready to run everybody down. I don't love horses having to

come from off the pace in the Kentucky Derby, but boy, I think

for a Baffert and if he keeps your Roux aboard, this horse

won't fall that far back. Shawn and I think can be a mid

pack kind of runner and a real problem on the Derby trail.

Yeah, he definitely took a step forward this weekend.

He's 1. He confused.

He confuses me because I I look at his past performances and I

think why is Baffert running him on the turf if he really thinks

that this is a big Kentucky Derby horse?

This was only, I believe his. Let me see what his maiden race

was. Third run on the dirt.

He was third in the American Pharaoh.

But in between his maiden and the American Pharaoh, he was

second in the Delmar Juvenile Turf.

He was third in the third run after Carolina and finally broke

his maiden on the turf at Delmar and it's.

Just Island and 8th by the way, and I think.

That maybe that was an. Issue they wanted was that they

just wanted the 9 furlongs. I'm really convinced of that,

actually. Yeah, that I mean that that

would make sense as to why, because you you rarely ever see

not just running Derby horses on the turf for Baffert, but you

just rarely see him really running on the turf in general.

And so for him to have a horse where if he thinks that this is

a Derby horse running him on the grass that that that confuses me

as to why he was there. But as he mentioned that mile

and a on the turf, it was maybe just the distance was what's set

up for him. And he's a horse that can run on

both. So why not just throw him out

there and get the distance for him?

Confidence of the win too, because this horse got thrown

into heavy competition early in his life as a 2 year old.

Just wasn't up to snuff last fall.

Frankly, for the Derby, Sean, that's very good.

I don't need someone to be great at 2, I need him to be great at

three. If they're gonna win the

Kentucky Derby. I think Plutarch checks a lot of

boxes, frankly. Well, and that that mile and

eighth win on the grass that seems to work have worked out

for him. As you mentioned, the confidence

builder it got, he went head to head with Intrepido pretty much

the entire race. Intrepido's a nice horse and got

oversee beat him before. And I mean he's able to look him

in the eyeball and beat him down the stretch at a mile.

So I think that extra conditioning maybe from the

longer distance. Now, I know Intrepido is coming

off a little bit of a layoff there from the Breeders Cup, but

I mean, it was maybe a month less than what Plutarch was

coming out of that November 30th race.

So but yeah, I just, I, I, I don't know entirely what I think

of him. I definitely like the idea that

because he kind of sometimes look at where Baffert places

these horses as well. We'll, we'll talk about the

Southwest here in a moment. But the fact that he sent Butane

out to Oak Lawn and then kept these horses here this weekend,

I think he sometimes you can kind of tell, tell a little bit

as to where they all stand in the rankings.

So the fact that he stood out here or stayed out there in

California and ran that well, cutting back to a mile,

switching back to dirt against Intrepid, I would definitely

feel, how's he feeling? Hopeful if you're in his camp

going forward. But yeah, that's I, I'm just

thrown off by the turf and I want, I want to see what he does

next and kind of kind of what develops for him.

I'll give you a, for instance, with Baffert, you see so often

with his top trainees, especially in the spring of the

three-year old, you're rotating between 4-5 and six furlong

workouts, right? Not Plutarch.

It's all six for a longers dude. He's just a distance horse.

He just wants distance. And as a guy who loves Next, you

should love Plutarch. I'm just telling you, I think

this guy's going to be give him the marathon, give him the

longer races. I'm just, I'm telling you, I

think he's one of those. I think we, I think there's a

world in which we see him in both the Kentucky Derby and

eventually in the Breeders Cup Turf because I think he'll want

the mile and a half. I think he's that kind of

talent. He's a little slow right now,

but boy, over a mile and a half of the turf, he ain't slow.

So I just think I look, man. I mean, I think I think there's

something here. I don't know what to make of

him, but of the Derby contenders this last weekend, his style at

least where he was willing to be near the front.

And as you mentioned, I know when Trepido's off the the

layoff. And by the way, Jeff Mullins is

having and 18 months to remember a 24 months to remember out West

just a spectacular 2025 comes right back with the Trepido here

already talking about running next month in the San Felipe.

And so I'm very, very interested to see if he is back for exactly

that. But man, Plutarch tough to

figure out like you pointed out, but I think they just know this

is just a distance and by the time he gets to Louisville, 10

furlongs will be just fine. The horse that won at the in the

southwest, excuse me, at Oakland West Island tactic and did a

very different tactic that Blutarch did in the Lewis.

It was coming from very, very far back to go ahead and win

this one. Sean, you were there.

What? How did you take in this race?

I was very impressed. I didn't think that the pace was

necessarily as I didn't think it was necessarily super quick to

where it really set up for a lot of the horses that were close to

the pace outside of Decode kind of stuck around for for some of

those minor positions. And he just, I mean, he just

swung out wide and came rolling down the stretch.

So he he seems like a horse that is always going to kind of come

with that late kick now. And you know that we we all know

that doesn't always work out. The Derby did for Sovereignty

last year. Obviously it did for Rich strike

and a couple of others as well in recent memory.

But it's always it's always a lot of traffic when you're back

there. But I always think we we always

kind of look for some of these closers.

I think, especially when you're thinking the exact doesn't the

trifectas and stuff for who's going to who's going to be

consistently coming late. And he seems to be kind of the

horse that's fitting that bill right now between the Smarty

Jones and between this. And it's interesting.

I talked to Mark Cassie about silent tactic.

We'll get into that in a minute. It seems like he's a horse that

is just starting to come around and is just starting to figure

it out and put it all together. And I think they also, the

Cassie team has now also kind of figured him out as well.

And we're seeing the results of that.

I do also really like that he was one of the horses that was

based at Oaklawn where they didn't have training for a while

leading up into that race. They didn't get back.

They missed like what, a week of training and didn't get back on

the track till a few days before the race.

And you had horses like Butane or like Liberty National coming

up from fairgrounds that we're able to train during that time.

And I I like that he still ended up winning this race.

So I think that what that was definitely a big thing to for

him moving forward. It sounds like the Rebels going

to be the next bet for him, but I I did really like his

performance. I think he's gonna be one of

these consistent closers we can kind of count on to be making

picking up those late pieces at the end.

Also, I have to mention, I just love, I love seeing Christian

Torres celebrations when he wins big races like this.

But. We need to absolutely yes I.

We can put him on every big horse in a big race so we can

watch these celebrations. Hopefully if he ever wins the

Derby he can stay on the back of the horse for.

That celebration, but you know how the guy drops the football

before he gets in the into the end zone to celebrate.

He he looks like a total dope Christian jumps off with a 16th

of a mile to go in the Derby just because he thinks he's

there here, right. Don't do it, Christian, don't do

it. But yes, it was boy last of

first You talked with Mark Cassie while you were down there

and we will play that interview now.

Sean, what do you anything we need to know before the

interview starts? Yeah, well, we we dived into a

couple of horses. So it wasn't just a silent

tactic here. That was big for Mark Cassie

this weekend. He also won the Kentucky Oaks

Prep, the Martha Washington Search party, who's kind of a

developing horse in the three-year old Philly division

as well. Also we had the return of

Champion Nitrogen, the three-year old Philly champion.

She came back and he had he had some high praise for her

performance in the Byacoa this weekend.

So you'll hear all that. We also talked about a couple of

his other horses that did not run as well this weekend in

strategic risk, the Smarty Jones winner, Counting Stars, who was

the favorite in the Martha Washington and got an update on

what he thought for the year ahead for Lakara and Sandman as

well. So we hit, we hit quite a quite

a few different pieces here, but it's always great to hear Mark

Cassie's insight on a lot of these horses.

They're having a fantastic meet down there at Oakland Park.

They're winning around 50% for the meet right now, and he'll

share his thoughts on why why they're having a good season on

that as well. Is nitrogen your leader in the

distaff division right now? Yes, yeah, especially with the

absence, with the absence of Torpedo, Anna and Silla retiring

as well. Now, at this point, I think you

got to look at nitrogen as being being the number one.

And well, I'll ask Mark this, you'll hear this in a moment.

It does sound like she's going to stay on the dirt for the

whole season. So she's definitely going to be,

I think, the one to beat in this division right now.

All right, here's Sean with Mark Cassie down at Oakland Park.

Welcome back in the Blood Horse Monday.

We are here at Oakland Park with Duel Hall of Fame trainer Mark

Cassie. Pretty good weekend this

weekend. How Mark?

It was, it was amazing. Yes, well, we had a lot of

success in the stakes races this weekend.

Silent Tactic, winning the Southwest Stakes, Search Party

in the Martha Washington and Nitrogen, who you see the saddle

towel for right here, returning in a big way in the Byacoa.

I don't even know where to start at this point.

I guess we'll start with Silent Tactics since that's on the

Kentucky Derby trail. What were you expecting that

kind of effort from him coming into this?

I don't know that you can ever expect, you know, that type of

performance. I told Mr. Oxley going in, you

know, he kind of had a, we had him in Toronto, tried to run him

more. We, I think we sent him to

Turfway. The race didn't go and then we

brought him out here. He only had one work over the

dirt prior to the Smarty Jones and I thought he ran great in

the Smarty Jones because that day Speed was carrying pretty

well and he was one of the few horses that closed.

He then came back and probably trained better than Strategic

Risk. So I told Mr. Ashley that.

I said this horse's going to run a big race and and I have to say

Christian Torres breezed him prior to the race and he told

me, he said we're going to be very tough.

Well, you you mentioned he hadn't worked on dirt really

that much before. You have horses at a couple of

different places. Why was he one that ended up at

Woodbine originally as a 2 year old?

Well, that's a good question. So what happened was he was in

the Ocala breeder sales in the 2 year old sale.

My brother Justin found him and it was interesting because I, I

do my own selections, but that horse ended up on my radar as

well. So he came to me and he said I

really like this horse. And I said I love this horse.

So he said, I'm going to see if I can get Mr. Oxley to buy him.

And so he bought him. We, we took him over to our

training center and I would say for the first three months I had

him, he never outworked a horse. I was like, I can't believe I

recommended this horse. And so I've done this before.

I thought, you know, we had bought him on off the synthetic

at OBS. So I said maybe he's just a

synthetic horse. So I said to Mr. Oxley, I said

he's not showing me anything. I said I'm going to send him to

Woodbine and see. So we sent him there.

That's why he went there and and honestly, he just trained OK on

the synthetic. But what happens?

And This is why I think too many times good horses are passed

over and that is not every horse is a great morning horse.

And, and I've always said you need to run them.

You'll see me run horses. I don't worry a whole lot about

my win percentage. I I think that you need to, you

know, let horses learn that. Alan Jerkins.

I always go back to Alan, you know, he always said before you

form a pin, you need to run them five times.

Sir Winston was a lot like Sir Winston got beat 20 links his

first couple of times. I sent him to Woodbine and he

started getting good. And then guess what, He ended up

being good on the dirt too. So that's that's where that's

why he was there. Well, you mentioned John Oxley

there. He has both strategic risk and

silent tactic. Just what's your relationship

like with him? Oh, it's tremendous.

You know, we've been, I don't know how many Kentucky Derbies

we've been to together. We, we had, you know, I had the

Eclipse award-winning classic Empire for him, La Cara,

multiple grade one. I've had a lot of good horses

for him. He's a wonderful man.

I love him. And so he, it was funny, about

three months ago, he said, do you think we got a Derby in US?

And I said, well, we'll give it one heck of a try.

Yes you will. Well, another owner that you

have had a lot of success with, you mentioned Sir Winston

earlier and that's Tracy Farmer who owns Search Party, winner of

the Martha Washington. She was one that took her a

couple of starts to finally break her maiden, but then she

came back in a big way, winning that big duel down the stretch

where there were four horses across the track.

What do you think of her performance and can she continue

to improve going forward? I'll tell you just a little

history about her. SO Mr. Oxley introduced me to

Tracy Farm where we were at the Hall of Fame Ball.

And Tracy said, oh, you go into the sale, I might buy a horse.

So I said OK. And the first horse I bought him

was Devious Charm, Devious Charms Search Party's mom.

And we got her home. We bought her the first day she

was at the farm. She jumped the fence and was in

the clinic for 30 days. Wow.

And and and Tracy took it like a trooper and he always has.

And here you go, you know, search party.

We got Lacarra last year, obviously to the Ashland and to

run in the Oaks and, and hopefully we have another Oaks

runner this year. Yeah.

What, what would be the path forward for her?

Would you keep her here at Oakland?

Probably. Or would you think about the

Ashland with her too? You know, I have to talk to

Tracy about that. My one concern with her is she's

a little bit of a light Philly, so I don't know how much I want

to run her. I think I'm going to ask him

what he wants to do it. It's hard, you know, Oakland

does such a great job. We love it here.

Obviously tracks great. I'd hate to leave so, but I got

to talk to him about it. I haven't really discussed it

yet. We'll see.

Oakland had a lot of weather in the last couple weeks, as did a

lot of race tracks across the country that really did seem to

impact training leading up to it.

Obviously, you had the two winners that didn't seem too

impacted by it, but you also had Strategic Risk, who maybe didn't

run to his best counting stars in the marketing of Washington

as well. Can we just chop up those two

performances to the training or was there anything else that you

noticed from them coming out of the race?

Kind of a star. She did the same thing to us at

Keeneland. I went into that race, the stake

at Keeneland, with thinking that they weren't going to beat her

and she just threw a clunker. She trained really well up into

the Martha Washington. I don't really have a good

excuse for her and she was great yesterday.

She came another race good. But as she said, you know, every

horse is different. I think it probably hurts

strategic risk. I don't know that I want to use

that as an excuse for counting stars.

I think I'm just going to throw the race out.

As long as she trains well, she will go in the Is it the

honeybee, Right? Yeah.

Yeah, she'll go in the honeybee. Strategic risk.

We'll see how he trains. Right now I I would say as long

as everything stays silent tactic, we'll be in the rebel.

OK, awesome. All right, well, another big

horse from the weekend. We see her name right behind us

here, Nitrogen. How much pressure is there

bringing a champion back, especially a three-year old

Philly champion coming back as a four year old to kind of get off

off the year on a good start? A lot, you know, you know, as a

trainer here, you have this great horse and you don't want

to, you don't want to let her down.

So it's my job. She's my child and it's my job

to protect her. So there is some pressure.

But yeah, I I planned on giving her a little time and she was so

wild and she was kicking the barn down and, and she'd go nuts

when we'd put her out in the round pen And, and that's not

her. If you watch her, she is cool.

She's cool as a cucumber. And so I, I talked to John

Green. I said I'm going to put her back

in training. I said, but what?

He said, but we're still going to go aim for the Missouri.

I said, we're going to aim for the Missouri.

So couple weeks go by and she's training dead.

And I said, you know what? I said I'm going to go ahead and

get her to Oakland. The weather's pretty good.

I said if everything goes perfect, there's an outside

shot, we'll run in the Bay of Color.

So we got her here. Luckily we got a really strong

breeze into her. We got a 5/8 and believe me, I

watched the, the video more than once.

I'm trying to, you know, I in my mind, I'm trying to make this OK

to run. And one of the things Kaden

Arthur, our, our assistant, said, she didn't take a deep

breath and it just amazed me. I, I have to tell you, when I

flew out here a few days ago, I, it was probably 5050 that she

was going to run, OK? But I was so happy with her

conditioning and how happy she was.

You know, I said, well, OK, we're going to run.

What'd you make of the race itself?

You had the 2nd place finisher in there as well.

It took her a little bit to get by her, but then once she

finally looked like she kicked in that last 16th, she just took

off. I thought it might have been her

strongest performance today. Missouri is is a good horse.

Don't, don't even we, we, we got her in Missouri, right?

Maybe in, I want to say September.

And the first time I ran her, she ran a very tough race at

Keeneland. And Jose wrote her and he had

all kinds of troubles. She should have won.

And Jose came back to me and said we're going to have a lot

of fun with this one. She's a good horse.

And even in the paddock yesterday, he said the other

field is not going to be easy to run down.

I said I know she isn't. Yeah.

And, and what was nice, I think they're both good Phillies and

they separated themselves from the field, so I thought it was a

strong performance. I'm going to go with I.

There's no numbers out yet. I would be surprised if it's not

her best buyer number. I myself think it was the best

race she's ever ran. Are.

We going to see a rematch between the two, then the Azeri

potentially. I talked to Michael Eiserman.

I talked to him last night. He sent me a text.

He I said Philly ran great. He goes, she ran great.

Yes. I don't ever want to run against

nitrogen again. So we'll see.

At this point, is it look like as far as nitrogen is concerned,

we're thinking dirt for the entire year.

Is there any possibility she might end up back on the grass?

You know, I never, never want to say never, but I I would find it

very unlikely that she goes back to the grass.

If you look at her numbers, she's a better dirt horse and we

ran second last year in the Breeders Cup.

We want to win it this year and so that's our goal.

So I very unlikely. OK, now you've had not just this

weekend, you've had a lot of success at Oaklawn so far this

year. I think you're close to winning

around that 50% mark so far this meet.

What is it about this track? What is it about the team that

you have set up here? Why are you having so much

success here at Oklahoma? Well, I think there's a number

of reasons. First, over the years, I've been

doing this for a while, 47 years, I believe, and some of

our best meats have come after our worst meats.

I, you know, I, it's funny because people obviously like to

make comments and, you know, say this or that.

And I was like, well, they weren't after me when we went

one for 31 at Churchill Downs. And, and when you, when you have

a one for 31 at a meet, you know what that means?

You've you've saved a lot of conditions.

The other thing that that is unique to Oakland is we, you

know, you go other places, you know, you go to to Florida, you

know, you've got synthetic, you got turf, you've got dirt.

You don't, you can't focus on one thing because it doesn't

work that way. When when you're running at

Oakland, you know you're going to run on dirt.

So, you know, we have a we have a large operation.

I handpicked the horses that you're seeing right here.

It's not by it, You know, It wasn't by by accident.

By accident. Horses are here or here for a

reason. Yeah.

And so, yeah. Well, two more horses I want to

ask about quickly here, Lakara and Sandman.

We know them from the Kentucky Oaks and Kentucky Derby trail

last year as well. Lakara came back in the Houston

Ladies Classic few weeks ago, Sandman yesterday in an

allowance race. What did you make of their first

starts of the year and how do you see them moving forward?

Yeah, unfortunately, Lakara, she was ready to run a while back

and so we decided to go to the lady at that same Houston and we

had just got a terrible track. Yeah.

I was there that day. It was probably the worst

weather day that tracks ever had.

I think if we had a fast track, you would have seen a much

different with Cara. She's come back, she's trained

great, so I'm not worried about her.

Her, you know, wheels. Again, this is a conversation

with Mr. Farmer we'll have to have.

I don't know whether he'll want to take on nitrogen or not.

So we'll see. Right now she is slated to run

in the Zuri, so we'll see. You might have the whole field

in that race. According to Michael, I don't

think this race is going. To run, yeah, but.

But you know, this time of year it's hard separating because we

don't, a lot of race tracks aren't running.

So we'll see. Sandman.

Sandman I knew going in when in the paddock, Jose and I were

talking about it and we didn't feel like there was a lot of

speed. And you know, Sandman's a little

different. Sandman needs pace.

He's he doesn't have a quick turn of foot.

He's got more of a he's a more of a grinder and he just never

got a shot too. I don't he got beat 2 lengths.

Of course, you know, everybody's disappointed and he needs to

retire and he's not that good. I'm not ready to decide that one

yet. I, I, I, I thought it was, you

know, he, he got he didn't, he doesn't even tired.

He was bucking and jumping around here.

It just didn't set up for him. A little frustrating.

You know, probably it was frustrating for Jose, but those

things happen. Yep.

And we'll move forward so. He's looking at or you were

planning, is it the Razorback that's up next, The one at the

end of the month? Yeah, Razorback.

We'll see. We'll see.

It's not really the way I wanted to go into the Razorback.

I want him. I want to.

Yeah. I don't know yet.

That one's still up in the air. Well, I know we'll go back to

the Derby here. So silent tactic and strategic

risk. It's nice having two horses with

shots heading towards that first Saturday in May.

Just what what would that mean to you?

I know you kind of told us a little bit when you were on the

show last year, but what would it mean to you to get the job

done with one of these two? Well, you know, when I was like

10 years old, they did a show on me and, and they said, what do

you want to do when you get older?

I said, I want to win the Kentucky Derby.

I've been very fortunate in my life and in my career to win

many big races, Yeah, but there's one that saluted me so

and I'm not getting any younger. So we.

Need. Well, final question I have for

you. I need your honest opinion here.

What are your thoughts on Christian Torres's new mustache?

I didn't like it at all, but I told him not to shave it because

it's it's working. I was like, what are you doing?

So a lot of people don't know, but Christian part of before he

ever rode Christian spent a lot of time at our training center.

And so he learned some of his craft there with us and his

brother works for us still. Now I'll be when I get back

there, I'll be have to listen to how Leo has taught Christian

everything he knows. Except for shaving, apparently.

Yes, exactly. And we're going to leave the, I

mean, look, we're going to leave the mustache.

You got to leave it on now, at least, at least for the next

couple of starts. But I don't like it.

I haven't said Joel though. He's got 1 and I don't like his

either. All right.

Well, thank you so much, Mark for taking the time.

Congratulations on a great weekend and we wish you and the

team all the best as we continue to move forward into the season.

Thank you. All right, so I don't like

fellow bald man Mark Cassie downplaying mustaches.

I don't like that at all. That is a listen for those of us

that have reasons to wear hats. Sean has no reason.

Beautiful head of hair. You've got a way better beard

than I do. I hate you very much.

Don't worry. I just with the the baldness

thing, like the ability to grow hair anywhere, he's a thing that

I do not take for granted. OK, Yeah.

It's just not a thing that your boy takes for granted.

I do not appreciate Mark Cassie going after the Christian Torres

mustache, but I do appreciate him not having him remove it.

But, you know, there's solely so much aerodynamicism that you can

have with a jockey. The mustache ain't the

difference here, Sean. So I'm glad.

I'm glad to hear that at least. That you would like you win a

Kentucky jokes prep Nucky Derby prep on the same card.

You gotta keep that mustache. If they keep winning, you gotta

keep it through at least Derby at this point.

So that's. Correct.

It didn't. That's right.

It did throw me off. When I got to Oaklawn the other

day and I first saw him with the mustache, I was like, wait a

second, that looks like, but is that Christian tourism?

It sure it sure enough it was. So the lucky mustache seems to

be working right now for Christian Torres.

So hopefully he won't shave that and we'll we'll see how much

success it can bring. The giveaway for being massively

successful in the world is forgetting that it's the

honeybee up next. That that's just having 7000

great horses and not knowing what's happening next in your

barn. That's what that is.

It's good for my guys. I really appreciate him jumping

on I Sean, you know what I've really appreciated in in that,

you know what that interview reminded me of?

I'm sure you remember the Lucas interview, just getting to sit

down, like just casual in the office, just hanging out.

And it's, it's amazing how many trainers have invited you or me

or both of us to just have those kinds of conversations.

Owners too, of course, you know, that sort of stuff.

And so just really thankful that that Mark is is that way.

And frankly, very thoughtful in all of his responses with you.

I don't think he blew smoke about anything.

And so I'm just thankful for those things for sure.

Yeah, and I, I just always like when, you know, taking the time

to really hear their thoughts on everything.

I mean, we talked about several different horses there and like

even even going back to the beginning of that and talking

about silent tactic, how he, how he just wasn't really training

well at the beginning. And so that's why he ended up at

Woodbine. Cuz like we mentioned earlier in

the show, you don't expect to see the Bafferts that he'd be

pointing toward the Derby being running on the turf like Blue

Tarc was. You don't really expect Mark

Cassie's Derby thoughtfuls to be at Woodbine for their two year

old season. You're thinking his King's Plate

hopefuls will be up there or you know, his grass runners would be

up there. And so I thought that was good

insight from him as to why that horse was up there at Woodbine

trying to see if maybe they could have something from find

what they saw at the Obs sale. And now it just seems like he's

just kind of coming around at the at the right time.

So very interesting to see where this horse will end up moving

forward. But I thought he had a big win

this weekend. Nice to see Nitrogen back as

well. Come back and high praise from

him there saying that was her her best performance to date.

So you asked the question before that interview about.

Whether or not she she's the number one in the Distaff

Division, I think right now you definitely have to keep have her

up there. Oh, and it's very clear Marcasi

thinks so, too. And that's all that matters,

because that's the person who's going to enter her at a races

and that's all that matters. Go ahead.

And it seems like his other owners think so too.

And some other owners aren't going to want to run against her

as well. So because you, you think about

Missouri, who was second there in that race, and then Okara,

well, Cara as well, you know, if she can bounce back and she's a

two time Grade 1 winner, she could bounce back this year.

You know, those are probably two major players in the distaff

division and they're already after one start into the year.

They're already looking at nitrogen.

Like I don't know if we want to go up against her.

So I, I think she's definitely the, the, the top of the

division right now all. Right.

Well, that is a son of Tacitus. He sure ran like his dad there

in the Southwest. His mom is by gun runner.

Let's talk some breathing. Let's do it with Eric Mitchell

from blood horse. Love talking to this guy.

We don't have him on enough with his beautiful sweater game

either. That's a real dearth on this

show is the sweater game of 1 Eric Mitchell.

Good afternoon to you, Sir. How are things you doing?

All right, it's a. Cold where you guys?

Cold where you are, Yes, it's. Not good.

I'm good, I'm good. I good to be on the show.

It was good to to hear from Mark Cassie.

He's, he's always a great, great trainer to talk to and so

accessible and he's just so straightforward with everything

that he does. It's really, it's really

refreshing. Yeah, his hate of mustaches

aside. All right, Eric, let's get into

it. The we had a very fun finish in

the Breeders Cup Classic and now we get to watch most of those

horses head off to stud, including one in Sierra Leone.

I think some of us thought he might be horse of the year last

year. Older horse, at least very close

to forever Young at least will stand for 75 grand.

You know others in this crop as well.

Were you surprised by the study? Anything like that?

No, not at all. You know, and as it turned out,

you know, that they made the right call on keeping the horse

in training and letting it run in another year.

You know, it's you always, you know, coming off a Breeders' Cup

Classic, you have to wonder, you know, am am I, am I putting

myself at risk by keeping the horse in training?

And is he not going to be as brilliant as he was?

And is that going to, you know, hurt his opinion in breeders?

And, you know, good for them. They kept the horse in training.

Everybody loves to see him run. He's an exciting horse.

And he got another Grade 1, so added to his credentials.

And then he, you know, runs a terrific race in the classic

again, you know, didn't didn't get the win that time.

But I mean, still this horse, he always showed up and and so no,

I'm not surprised at all. And as you mentioned, he's by

gun runner. So you know all the all the

stars line up for this horse, right?

Yeah, no doubt about it. And frankly, you're right about

that part, Eric, especially running as a four year old.

We see the trio unfortunately of 2nd place finishes, but all of

them in high level grade ones, whether it be the Stephen

Foster, that Jockey Club Gold Cup or in the Breeders Cup

Classic itself. Obviously the Whitney win as

well. Makes sense that they ran him

back. A pair of others in here though,

Sean, I'm sure you want to ask about.

Yeah. Well you know in addition to

Sierra Leone, we also saw fierceness and mind frame return

for their four year old seasons. Sierra Leone standing for 75,000

at Coolmore, fierceness for 50,000 at Coolmore and mindframe

for 50,000 at Claiborne. These are going to be the top

three stud fees of the new stallions are Eric, are you

hearing anything as far as breeders responses to them yet

or what can we kind of expect from them moving into their

first season? Well, I mean with, with Sierra

Leone and fierceness standing at Ashford, they're not going to

have any problem getting mayors, you know.

So those two will be very well solidly supported and I think

mine frame is going to be very well received.

I mean, we're a little I, I mean, for these guys, probably

most of their books are just about full for these first year

guys. So I mean, I think what you're

going to see is people sending a variety of mayors to these

horses. They're going to really want

horses or they want that book to be strong with mayors that have

already shown that they can produce 2 year old winners or

the mayors themselves or two year old winners or produce 2

year old stakes winners because getting off to that fast start,

that first year is really important.

But you know, these are just these other two fierceness, mind

frame, They're just good, solid all around horses.

They're going to get good support.

Constitution is a is a rising star in the stallion ranks.

He just seems to get better and better every year.

And you know, the City of Life is just a good solid horse.

He was a great racehorse himself.

Fierceness carried that on, you know, So I don't, you know,

there there isn't any reason to think that none of these guys

and in fact, the the these first year guys, they get all the

attention. You know, they're, they're the

ones that breeders want to, to to jump on because they're

commanding the premium price in the commercial market.

So and so there's, I mean, there's a lot of, of good

quality horses that breeders get to choose from in the first, the

first for this crop of, of entering your sires.

He's in an awesome sweater. His name is Eric Mitchell.

He covers breeding there at Blood Horse bloodhorse.com.

Of course for everything that he is working on.

Appreciate him jumping on Blood Horse Monday with Sean Collins

and me. Louie Rebeau, the three years

that you just mentioned mind frame, of course, a Maryland

bred, does that matter at this point at all?

Do do do breeders care about that kind of stuff?

You know, of course, I think you know, Nick's go, I think, you

know, mind frame obviously when I think recent very high level

Maryland breds, do they care at this point or said, hey, he's

the son of constitution and we saw what he did on the track.

You mean from the Stallion standpoint?

Yeah. From a stallion.

Stallion was bred. No, I mean, what they what they

care about is the ability of the stallion.

They care about the pedigree. I mean, like I said, you know,

you got constitution, you got St. sense broodmare sire.

He is a rising star in the broodmare sire ranks.

So no, no, the state bred status at this point is is is not a

material factor. Well, we mentioned Sierra Leone

earlier being a son of Gun Runner, so is Locked who's going

to be joining the Stallion ranks as well?

Just as we're going to start to see, we've obviously seen all

the success with Gun Runner in his first couple of crops.

Now we're really going to start seeing his sons heading to the

breeding shed as well. What do you think we can expect

from them? Well, you know, it's a it's a

crystal ball that's really, really hazy at this point, you

know, but you know, for what gun runner has already done.

I I think we're I think we need to buckle in because I think his

sons are are very likely to to carry on that legacy.

And we've really seen this whole candy ride sire line continue to

grow. And I, you know, gun Runner is,

is, is, is 1 aspect of that. But you know, you, you've got,

as you pointed out, you've got locked, you've also got

Cyberknife in there, you've got early voting in there who's been

promising, you got Sierra Leone, you've got Taiba.

I mean, you've got a lot of young sires that are all coming

along from this sire line and you know, and, and it's really

become a very significant branch of, of, of the Fabiano sireline.

So I mean, I don't see any real reason to start losing momentum,

particularly as success builds on success, right?

So, you know, people see, oh, you know, a son of gun runner,

you know, he they're going to attract good quality mayors.

And so I just see that building on itself.

Eric Mitchell with us blood horse and bloodhorse.com talk

brings with him. Of course, the sons and

grandsons now have been a mischief that bothers me to say

out loud, but are on the the March.

I'm seeing the main Maximus mischief pop up quite a bit.

2025 kind of a sire stud fee, I should say.

Excuse me. What do you what do you make of

him to this point? I I think he's coming out of it.

You know, I think Maximus Mischief.

So it was very solid runner, you know, I mean a very talented

runner. And and you know, the other day

I was out at lanes and we got a chance to see raging Torrent and

Carl Spackler, who are both entering stud there.

And you know, raging toward is a picture man.

I mean, he is just one beautiful horse.

He is, he is really well put together.

He, he, he's got the stretch and the scope and the looks and, you

know, and, and some people will like, well, you know, but he's

not, you know, a son of Into Mischief.

He's a grandson of Into Mischief.

Well, you know what? You got to look at the

individual, you got to look at the sire.

You got to look at what he has accomplished and what he brings

to the table from a physical standpoint.

And, and I really think people are going to be paying attention

to this horse. Some other sons and grandsons of

Into Mischief that are entering stud this year as well.

Citizen Bowl, Patch, Adams, Mystic Dan.

Any thoughts on any of them? Any of them standing out to you?

I think Patch Adams is an interesting horse just because

he's got, he showed so much speed.

And I think one of the things people really like about Into

Mischief is that he brings speed into the equation and, you know,

without losing anything in terms of stamina.

And, you know, clearly, you know, clearly the classics are

not a problem with Into Mischief, who is now tied as the

as the one of the leading sires of Kentucky Derby winners.

You know, he's got three of them.

And man, if he if he squeezes another one out this year, then

he's got it. You know, he's the leading sire.

So so I think you're, you know, I think people will be attracted

to Patch Adams because of that speed citizen Bowl, you know,

versus champion. You know, maybe his three-year

old year wasn't quite what they wanted it to be, but he clearly

has ability. He clearly has the pedigree.

And then you've got who's the other one that I was looking at?

Well, you have Mystic Dan. He's by golden sense.

So he's a grandson into mischief as well.

So yeah, there's a lot of into mischief And and I don't know

why you why do you not want to talk about into mischief?

Louis, what's why do you want to not say that out loud?

I mean, the horse is A7 time net, you know, seven time

leading. Sire, come on.

Into mischief. Did I say it well enough?

Is it close enough to the mic there?

Did I do the right thing? There, I think, I think Louis

was feeling old saying grandsons have been to mischief.

Listening oh, it's part of it for sure, grandsons.

I don't need to see on the piece of paper that I'm looking at to

do this show yeah, I don't need that.

That's what I don't need there. Yeah, that's what.

It's like, so it's the other generations you're starting to

feel here, yeah. Whenever I see, whenever I hear,

oh, he's a great broodmare sire, I think I feel older than.

I mean, gosh, how far down the years did we have to get for you

to say out loud a great broodmare siren?

It's like I remember, watch, I bet on that horse a lot.

You know what? I hear you, I hear you loud and

clear. Eric, you, you mentioned seven

straight years for him to Mischief as a leading sire just

historically. Just put that in perspective,

kind of what we're witnessing it with him right now.

I mean, this really is an extraordinarily rare event.

I mean, when you've got to go back to Bold Ruler to see a

horse who has done a stretch like this, Speaking of feeling

old, I mean, you know, and, and then, you know, after Bold

Ruler, you have to go back to Lexington.

You know, you have to go back to the 1800s for a horse and you

know, and clearly and you go back that far and it was a

completely different industry. It was a different whole

different model, a different dynamic.

You know, So I, I think what you're seeing into mischief do

with significantly larger sire populations than either of those

other two stallions were competing against.

And in addition to the number of mayors being bred, I mean, you

know, back in the day, you know, that that was when, you know,

breeding more than 4050 mares a year was unheard of.

And, and so that that train is long left the station.

And so now you've got stallions with, you know, 100 plus foals

in their crops competing against one another.

And still Into Mischief is the leading sire by number of

winners, by number of stakes winners, by number, by progeny

earnings. I mean it really, it is

remarkable what he is he has accomplished.

Eric Mitchell with us. Find him at bloodhorse.com.

All the good breeding news there.

We have Johannes on the show sheet and I voted for him as top

turf horse in North America a couple years ago in the Eclipse

Awards. I was frankly not happy that he

didn't win. That was a rare occasion, Eric,

where I got pretty mad at the my fellow Eclipse voters.

I want to ask this a little bit of a different way.

We're entering an era where there are going to be a

significant number of synthetic tracks at major places around

the country, whether it's Turfway Park or Gulfstream or a

Woodbine that we're used to. But being installed as well in

New York City at Belmont, any of these sires, you know, when we

see a Johannes or you know, others, I think of like Omaha

Beach right now, if you even have it up right now at I think

it's at the Blood Horse page about the top synthetic sires,

all weather sires, if you want. Is that something you're hearing

people talk about trying to, you know, pick off some of those

kinds of purses? Because I mean, they're, they're

running for a lot of money on that surface, man.

What I am hearing is people getting a lot more comfortable

with turf sires then I mean that's a trend that we have seen

and we talked about Raging Torrent and and you know it's

just there are more opportunities for grass racing.

And we know from the experiment we've had when other major

tracks had synthetic main tracks that horses that tend to like

turf tend to like the all weather surfaces as well.

So I mean, I really think this is expanding the opportunity,

you know, whether it's Gulfstream or the new Belmont

Park or whatever it is. I, I mean, I, I think that

Belmont having an all weather track is really going to move

the needle for a lot of stallions in New York.

And I think people are just going to get, I mean, there's

not going to be that hesitation to, to not breed to a horse

because he was a turf sire. I I just really think that is is

starting to go away. That's fascinating.

Yeah. It's just something I've, I've

been thinking about just as, like you just said, especially

with Belmont, I think there's going to just be a ton of that

kind of racing, especially during the winter, of course.

And you know, 8900 thousand got a races.

I think at some point you got to be pointing to those there as

well. We'll get you out of here.

Eric and Eric Mitchell, of course, from Blood Horse and

bloodhorse.com before we get out of here, you know, as we head to

this and and, and by the way, Johannes is a great grandson.

I think of Indian Charlie. Is that right?

Did I do that right there, Uncle Moe?

He. Nyquist him, right?

Yeah, right. Oh my gosh, he is.

A great grandson, you're right, of Indian Charlie, which is

interesting because that's another line.

I mean, thanks to Uncle Moe, right?

I mean that that's our line was was struggling, you know, and

then Uncle MO comes along, sets the world on fire.

And now you've got all these sons of Uncle MO and now

grandsons of Uncle MO that are that are coming through.

It's really it's it's and now and also in that line is Yopan.

So you've got so really you're seeing that start to grow.

You know, you're starting to see some momentum there.

Well, there you go. Please, Eric Mitchell, find him

over at Blood Horse and bloodhorse.com.

Eric, really appreciate you jumping on Buddy.

We'll talk to you soon. Yeah, absolutely.

Thanks for having me on there. You go Eric Mitchell, go find

his work again at bloodhorse.com.

All the great coverage of all of the sales and the breeding and

all the things that are going on.

No better place in the frankly, in anywhere in North America

than Blood Horse at bloodhorse.com.

There you go, Sean. All we got to do is get 75 K

together. We can have a sun of Sierra

Leone, maybe. That sounds like a plan.

Are you? That's all we got to do are.

You providing that cash? I'm wondering, I'm looking

around at how many things in my house I would have to sell to do

that. You know what I mean?

Like just how many things? Would have to empty my house.

It's. Gonna be an empty house.

We're gonna have to. Do the show on the sidewalk,

yeah. We're.

Gonna have to get rid of the studio.

It's gonna have to hold up signs like, hey, we're doing a show,

come listen because we won't be able to afford Internet.

That's exactly right. But no good stuff from Eric.

I really appreciate having him on.

It is. And I know I've said this a lot,

the 54 times that we've done this show.

It's one of the things, Sean, that I was a little hesitant to

to take this this podcast on because I the breeding side was

not something that I had had detailed conversations about,

right? It wasn't part of my parlance

coming up in horse racing. And frankly, for a guy like you,

it's not at the Derby Museum like you were talking, hey, you

know, after Mystic Dan wins this year, he's probably going to the

shed. He's probably going to the

breeding shed. And let me describe this process

like you weren't doing that right.

And that wasn't part of it. You were, you know, talking

about Derby winners and. It it depended on the questions

we were asked. Most of the time, no, we were

not talking about that. A 10 year old kid comes in on

field trip, I'm sure with the fun stuff.

Risen Star, Saudi Derby, Sunland Derby this coming weekend,

Rachel Alexander, of course, alongside at the Fairgrounds.

Let's start with the Oaks Prep, Sean.

As we move forward on the weekend, we see the return here

of Bella Ballerina, the winner of the Goldenrod at Churchill

Downs. Expecting a big performance from

her. I'm assuming you are, yeah.

Yeah, I'm I'm a big fan of this Philly.

I really liked her win the goldenrod last time out.

Half sister or is 1/2 or full sister to pretty mischievous

Kentucky Oaks winner from a few years ago.

So very much looking forward to her performance this weekend.

Hopefully she'll she'll come back as good as she left and

we'll see if any of these other Phillies can step up to that.

Challenge. She's an interesting one.

Son of streets or daughter of streets.

Excuse me, but a tap it on the damn side too, right.

So this is obviously she's made for distance If if she's going

to get there to get Dolphin, folks certainly know what

they're doing with her. Tyler gets them out here at the

fairgrounds, which is interesting of course, but he's

been aboard her for both her runs at Keeneland and at the

Churchill Down. Others in here that I think are

interesting. Peter Urton's kept this one east

of the Rockies. We're seeing more and more of

this. The daughter of good Magic in

Majestical $375,000 purchase at the Keeneland September sale 2

falls ago in 24. Malibu Moon on the damn side.

How about that? This is where I feel this is it.

Malibu Moon's one of those horses.

Makes me feel a little being on the damn side.

But Jessica, I think interesting here, Ben Curtis gets them out

because Jose Ortiz and Irad Ortiz won't be in Manita.

How about that? Yeah, she, she definitely looks

like a Philly that could potentially, you know, maybe

pose a challenge here to Bella Bella Arena.

She stepped up in distance last time and had a nice solid 4 1/2

length victory there at the fairgrounds.

So it's as you said that Peter Erten bringing some of these

horses east. I think that's interesting to

see which ones he's leaving over here.

We talked about it a few weeks ago and how difficult the Oaks

Trail specifically typically is down there in Louisiana.

And so to to see him have the confidence to leave horses out

here to run. Now I know the, the West Coast

is kind of tough right now too, where he usually is.

I mean, you just look at the lost virgins yesterday and how

many good horses were in that field, even though it was a

small field. I mean, that was a legit 4 horse

field there. But but it's interesting to see

him have the confidence in this Philly to leave her over here

and test that fairgrounds trail. So we'll, we'll see how she how

she performs this weekend. But it should it should set up

for a good race. A tough luck daughter of

Constitution is Love your neighbor.

Three straight 2nd place finishes.

Luis Saez picks up the mount here for Michael Stidham.

Axel Concepcion had been aboard for her previous three runs.

I'm gonna have her on top by the time we get to Saturday in the

Rachel Alexandra Paladin returns in the following race, which is

the Risen Star Grade 2, the running for a half million in

that one. Sean Chip Hotcho is back here

after AI thought a better Le Compte that people are giving

him credit for. Of course, he was the winner of

the gun runner as well. Some others in here.

Of course, Cording didn't run as well in the Remsen as we

thought, but frankly it was behind Paladin and Renegade.

So who knows what he'll look like for Todd Pletcher, but John

Velasquez in to ride him. Man, a ton of places to go here.

Cool race. It is a cool race and if you've

been watching our our show the last couple weeks when we have

gotten to these fairgrounds preps, the gun runner and the

the compt I, I personally have not been a big fan of of those

races so far when we're looking ahead toward the Derby, I don't

think they've necessarily been the strongest.

I haven't really liked the way that the races have finished up.

You see Chupancho the gun runner winner coming back here.

You see golden tempo the on Twitter back back in here as

well. And the when I look at it,

seeing liberty national come out of come out of the gun runner

and not really be much of a factor up in the southwest,

especially when he he had the opportunity to keep training

because he was down there at the fairgrounds.

And that's kind of that's backing up my what I originally

had thought of this trailer. OK, head towards the Derby.

So it's not going to be a pretty cool race, but I think Paladin's

going to be a real key to see where the, when we're thinking

about the Derby, real key to see where the rest of the Louisiana

horses are. Are they going to be able to

step up and compete with him, or is he going to end up just kind

of steam rolling this field essentially as he's coming back

in off the layoff? So I think we're going to learn

a lot in terms of where the Louisiana horses stand on the

Derby trail this weekend. I think you're right about that

before that and well before that in Saudi Arabia, they will run

the Saudi Derby a 30 point prep on the Kentucky Derby trail here

Shawn obliteration, my world and very connected all making the

trip as is acknowledged me please from the West Coast to

son of Mukero there any of those 4 stand out to you.

We also do, by the way, gets a ton of voyage, who's the son of

Into Mischief, but is out of the Tanaka barn, the Japanese

trainee of those five, does any of them stand out to you?

Of course, my world with the ownership connections for Brad

Cox. We talked to him a couple weeks

ago. Makes sense that he would be

heading over there. Any of these stand out to you?

Yeah, my world definitely does because, you know, I was, I was

at the Jerome and I was pretty impressed with his performance

in the Jerome, although I'm a little surprised that this is

where he's ending up, a son of essential quality.

I feel like especially at the end of the Jerome, there he was

a horse that seemed like he wanted more distance.

And I know that obviously the connections often racing, it

makes sense why they would want to send him out to the Saudi

Derby. But I'm still not entirely

convinced that A1 turn mile is in his his best where he's going

to run his best race. So I think he's potentially,

when you're thinking ahead toward the Derby, I think he's

maybe the most legit horse in this field.

But is this his best trip? And will he be vulnerable,

especially with some of these Japanese horses, we know how

tough they are every single year, you know, are they going

to be able to potentially cause a challenge?

Now you mentioned Sotano Voyage, who is a horse that, you know,

he won one of the prep races out there in Japan.

And so that you know that we've seen this over the last couple

years where a horse that wins one of the two year old preps

comes back here in Saudi and and Dubai and runs well.

The thing that confused me with him as far as me looking at how

prepared he's going to be for this weekend, he was not Triple

Crown nominated, which surprises me because they won a prep race

already and he is already or they're sending him the Saudi

Arabia to run in this race. Maybe they're not thinking the

distance is going to be the best for him and so they didn't

bother with that. But they're still going to come

in here and try to one turn mile.

But that that does raise a little a little question in my

mind, the fact that they didn't nominate him for the Triple

Crown, but they're still shipping him out here as far as

how ready he's going to be for this race.

Sunland Derby on Sunday Mile on the 16th there at Sunland Park.

A half million bucks on the line for the three-year olds in this

one. We see the $800,000 purchase in

Express Kid, the winner of the Springboard mile there right

before Christmas at a Remington Park.

We get the Jonathan Thomas trainee in Sharon's Beach here

as well at 12:50. Pavlovians in here we see so

often these horses ship in from the West Coast.

Seems to be a pretty easy, easy ish trip for them.

Christian Torres though brings in the Brooklyn from Oakland

Park. Rodolf, per SE of course, trains

this one. He was very impressive over a

mile last out. They tried him in the streets

sense no go there. Second off the layoff here.

I think Brooklyn's really interesting here.

Yeah, and they scratched out of the Southwest, ship it, ship him

out here to Sunland as well. So I think that's definitely,

you know, they're, they didn't do that just to send them out

there. I think they're doing that.

They're doing that to win and they thought they had a had a

chance to win the Sunland race. He's got got the lucky mustache

aboard there and Christian Torres.

So we'll see whether or not that works out for him as well.

You mentioned express kid. We were all kind of surprised by

his victory in the springboard mile.

I think now we'll kind of get an idea as to, you know, how much

of A fluke that was or not a fluke when he runs here this

weekend. But he is running.

He is running for new connections this time.

After that win, he was entered in the Phasic Tipton Digital

sale and sold for $800,000. So the the $2000 horse is now an

$800,000 horse. So we'll see whether or not his

new connections have him ready to go here and start making some

of that money back in this spot. So it should be an interesting

race. No reason to think he can't get

the distance. Bodhi Express on the sire side,

Street Sense on the dam side. Should be able to go the mile on

a 16th no problem there. At Sunland Park.

Yeah, some interesting runners in here.

Pavlovian I've never been able to figure out.

There's a couple Cal Breds in here, including the one in

Express kit that you mentioned. Well, Hernandez is making the

trip, though. That's not an accident.

The Cal Cup Derby a couple of weeks ago at Santa Anita,

Pavlovian actually ran really well in that.

Just rented up third behind Start the Ride and Sammy Davis,

who were both really good Cal breds.

But man, throwing the blinkers on.

Obviously want him to be a little bit closer to the pace.

There should be an interesting one as well.

But yeah, a fun, fun race out there at the Sunland Derby.

Do you have a favorite Sunland Derby?

Winner. Well, not not a winner, but got

a shout out the 2009 fourth place finisher.

Mind that Bird. So I always got to give him his

shout out whenever you're talking about Sunland.

There you go, All right, man, Well, we'll get out of here with

that. Appreciate everybody hanging out

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