BloodHorse Monday | Further Ado wins Blue Grass

All right, trackside here to open Blood horse Monday, right

at Keeneland Racecourse here in Lexington, KY alongside Joe

Perez from blood horse and bloodhorse.com.

My name is Louis robot of blood horse Monday.

Joe. I mean, these, these are the

days that these blood, you know, this, this, this bluegrass day

where we want two things and I think we got them both.

We want prices, right? So you, you got your your

feature right now up on the Appalachian, your recap of that

race, right? We got the we got a nice price

in that one and then we want a great performance and boy, we

had to wait till the end of the day.

But further ado. I mean, he stamped himself as

one of the favorites of the Kentucky.

Derby today, absolutely he did. And you know, I think as

impressive as he was, I think it's going to get a lot of

betters wanting to put their money behind them.

But I also have a lot of caution, OK?

I think that this was a diminished field, and I think it

might be a little bit of a case of fool's gold.

OK, I I'm not saying he's not a good horse.

Yeah, I think he's absolutely one of the best.

But would I put him ahead of Renegade?

OK, No. OK.

Would I? Would I put him against?

Would I? Would I say he's better than the

Puma? I don't think so.

OK, All right. So there's a bunch of these

horses who are sort of at this level, right?

And so it's an interesting Derby that's shaping up this way.

I feel like we've got 5-6, maybe even seven horses in that kind

of class. We were talking earlier in the

day about horses like Commandment.

We're forgetting about the Florida Derby, whatever Ball

thinks, right? The Puma, 3 weeks off from Tampa

coming back to the Florida Derby showed every bit of run in that

one. We've seen those connections

with Mage before, so it's not a story we haven't seen in very

recent years. Frankly, full effort.

I, I don't know quite what to make of him.

I thought he was really good in the Ruby and frankly, if I'm

going to get a better number on him than anyone else, that might

be a place that I look, etcetera, etcetera.

But I do think of all things further to at least put himself

in this conversation. Absolutely, Yeah.

I mean, you don't win by that kind of margin and have people

say you're not quality. Right, Right.

You know, it doesn't matter who was out here.

Yeah, you could have put him against a bunch of two year

olds. It doesn't matter.

He beat them. Yeah, Whoever, whoever your

competition is. That's right.

If you if you take care of it, then you've earned whatever

comes with it, and he's done that.

But as you point out, no paladin, no class president even

more recently than that. A diminished field that way.

We didn't quite know what Creole Chrome was going to be without

Lasix. I think we found out some of

these others in here, though. Further ado finishes ahead of a

horse named Otino. Finishes second here.

Will likely get a spot in the starting gate there in

Louisville as well. They throw the blinkers on this

one and it still fell to the back of the pack.

We all love a good closer. What'd you make of Otino?

You know, I, I, I don't wanna count my own picks, but you

know, we up in the press box they had the little contest.

Don't you love that? We do it every year.

It's a spectacular thing of people don't know and this is

the kind of thing behind the scenes I think we should share.

The Keelan press box is very different than other press boxes

in horse racing. That's that's where we should

start. There's a different

collegiality. Everyone gets along here.

There's a there's a real sense of it's laid back.

Hey, we're here at Keeneland. Isn't this fun?

Let's. There's coffee around the

corner. They're handing out Key Lime Pie

today. You know this sort of stuff.

But every year they put together a Julep cup and this is what

Joe's talking about and they ask all of us to do 5 things.

Final time for the race winner, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place.

I had Otdo second. Where'd you have him?

Fourth. OK, that's pretty good though.

Yeah, absolutely. So he finishes second here.

What did you see from him today? What do you make of his?

I don't want to say his chances in Louisville, but frankly,

we've seen weirder horses than this hit the board the in the

Kentucky Derby for sure, right? Right.

And, you know, there are so many different factors.

What, what is the weather going to be that, you know, sometimes

on Derby Day that becomes the biggest?

X Factor, Sure. You know what, what gate is he

breaking from? But what we saw is a horse that

has fight. Yeah, right, right.

And had to work out a trip at this one big time.

You're right about that. Right.

And and I think when you're looking at the Derby, you want

to say this guy can fight. He's not afraid of of making

that effort. He's going to show the heart

that you need because you know what?

In a field of 20. You got to do it.

You've got to do it. If you don't have that heart, if

you don't have the determination, you're going to

end up finishing 20th. Anybody in here disappoint you

today? By chance, did anybody stand out

as a disappointment, or did we get down to a field where, man,

if Further Ado didn't win this thing, we'd have real questions

about the quality of the? Bluegrass that.

That's what would have been the disappointment.

Yeah, I think, I think you're right about.

That I think if further Ado did not win, he didn't have to win

by 11, right? You know the what is it the

largest margin between? 2 decades. 2 decades.

Yep. So if if he doesn't do that, OK,

let's say he wins by a length and all we're saying is, OK, he

goes to the Derby. He's an OK Derby horse, but he

wins by 11. Now he's what?

He's second in the points stand. Yeah.

Good point. But what, what is that really

worth? You know, I think it still comes

back to the fact that it was a diminished field.

And frankly, let's be clear about this.

The Bluegrass is not a great predictor for success and a high

level success in the Kentucky Derby either.

And so if you wanted to make the case against, that's part of it

too. Yeah, I think, I think we look

at last weekend's racing and I think we say, OK, that's that's

where our favorite is going to come from.

You may not like Renegade, and that's good.

News for you because that horse probably be 3 to 1, seven to two

in the Kentucky Derby. That's right, you.

Might not like Commandment, right?

But there were plenty of other horses that didn't win that are

going to be in that Derby field that are worth taking that that

shuttle. Yeah, no, that's exactly right.

We saw with Sovereignty just last year and he turned out to

be OK Joe, He's he's an OK horse.

That's OK. It's exactly right.

You mentioned some other races that you did some recaps on.

Of course, bloodhorse.com for all the great race recaps from

around the country. Your favorite performance on the

card? Let's do that.

Did you have a favorite one? I do think Joelle Rosario's ride

there in the Appalachian aboard the six horse in here, Storms

Wake last the first, but he kept her close enough that she was

part of the pace the entire way. Very impressed with her.

You know, one of the things that really stood out to me is that

Brian Lynch, her trainer, mentioned that the last time out

she really wasn't that far off from winning.

You know, she was within striking distance.

Lions Lake was first. Sister Troy Anne was second and

she was third. And he, he felt like oddsmakers

didn't give her a fair shake today.

And the performance proved him right.

And, you know, it was a fantastic run.

Yeah. I, I, I was a little surprised

myself to see 15 to 1 on a horse that lost by less than a length.

And here comes the bride. That's an obvious prep for this

kind of race, right? We see so many horses come up

from Gulfstream Park for the Appalachian.

I mean, pretty surprising to see her at 15 to one.

But hey, when I got 21 to one on that horse at the at the gate, I

wasn't so mad about it, Joe. No, no, that that's when you

feel like, OK, I'm maybe I'm a little smarter than.

One time of day it's all takes in horse racing, especially on

big days here at Keeland. The Shakertown isn't always an

interesting race and I think we're always looking for a

massive upset and once in a while the best horses just win.

That's what happened today. Yeah, and, and, and I think

what's really interesting is my boy Prince has been a horse that

everyone has known the talent levels there and he's been

knocking on the door and graded stakes.

This was his tenth attempt at a graded stable.

He's got 4 second place finishes, including at the Once

in Saratoga last year, once the very next month in.

This is the horse that was second in the jaber last year.

I mean, this is a nice horse. Yeah, absolutely.

But I think the key was that Mark Cassie moved him to turf

sprints. Yeah.

And I think, you know, we forget with a lot of horses, it's a lot

of trial and error. You got to find where they fit.

You know, you can't force a horse to be a dirt horse.

He doesn't want to be a dirt. It's a it's a great point what

you make here because this horse was running in the Canadian

International, which is a great one at Woodbine.

It is a mile and a half race. That was in October.

Fast forward October, that horse wins a turf Sprint after winning

last out in the Turf dash there at Tampa.

This is you talk about trainers understanding their horses.

Mark Cassie here, terrific job with him.

He might be the horse whisperer. I, you know, he just it's a.

Remarkable. Turn around.

It really is. It really is.

He seemed to to just notice something about him and figure

out this is where he needs to be and everything has matched up

And you know, he's he's not he's not a three-year old, right?

He's he's got he's got a lot of racing under his belt already.

I think this was his 23rd start. So you know, he's not, he's not

a spring chicken, but, but he's not.

Going anywhere either. He's not going anywhere, that's

right, but I think his best racing is still ahead of him.

That's awesome. Yeah.

And I think that's one we'll almost certainly see on the

Kentucky circuit for a while, frankly, before maybe heading up

to Saratoga. But Sir, and we'll see that one

in Kentucky. Downside imagine probably, yeah,

Saudi crown wins today. How good can he be?

I know he's 6. I we've seen a lot of his races,

but he's now 2 for two this year wins in Oaklawn, wins here.

How good can he get? Today was a really good day for

Brad Cox. Just just a little, yes.

You know, not like he's never had good days before, but with

three stakes wins today. And multiple grade ones.

In In a lot of ways, this is probably the one that he's

probably the most proud of because if you look at Saudi

Crown, he ran last June and then he was off for nine months,

races in March and then he comes back today and it looks like

he's in really fine form. And, and Brad said after the

race that one of the things that has really stood out in the last

couple of months is that Saudi Crown has been touting himself.

In the. I like that.

OK, I like that. He's telling Brad let me go, let

let me get at. Like that a lot.

He knows that he's in in top form right now, and Brad's not

ready to say what's next. He still thinks it's probably

going to be another two months before we see him in the

starting hit again. OK, All right, Yeah, it makes

sense. Care.

Paris starts here. Get him off.

We were even talking. I was talking with my colleague

Barry Spears here after that race, and he's in the winner's

circle and Brad's already doing a physical look over, right.

He's already getting ready, checking him out, making sure

he's OK at all those things. He'd look fine coming out of the

race for sure. He's just an interesting 1 Joe

because we see the talent when he pops up like this, he's he's

excellent flopping Pratt seems to be a good match for him

today. But boy, back-to-back races like

this, just one of those you never know where he might pop up

next. We talked, we've heard him and

I, I want to say this to close. I know we see further ado and we

think of our great trainers in those kinds of lights.

Saudi crowds, A6 year old who's kind of been doing this his

whole career, and Brad puts him back in that spot in a ratings

handicap of all things at Oaklawn.

Let's him feel himself. Gets to the winner's circle

there, gets that confidence. He shows it off today.

And, and Brad made a point of saying he doesn't like the

ratings handicaps. Yeah, OK, he said.

He said he may. He may.

Throw out of a little, yeah. Right now he doesn't like him.

Got it. What he knew is that he wanted

Saudi crown to run at Oklahoma. That was the best spot for him

and it turned out to be perfect and it set him up for today and

he was clearly the best today. And Pratt said that with the

significance of today's victory was that it really puts him in a

good position for whatever stud deal comes down.

That's. Exactly right.

He talks a lot about with horses like this, get that graded

stakes into them. And this is exactly that kind of

day. And heck, on Bluegrass Day at

Keeneland, not many better days to do that.

Well, Joe, thank you so much for popping by.

We're going to throw to Bobby Hall.

Say something nice about Bobby Hall.

Oh, Bob. OK, I got it.

I got it. I got it.

I got it. I.

I got something. Bob is the second best New York

Yankees fan I know. OK, I was going to say he's not

a Mets fan. That's what I was going to go

with. He's smart enough not to be a

Mets fan from. Queens, That's that's the best

Yankees fan is me. That's you.

But he's from Queens. Some of those guys get messed up

on the Mets. He didn't do that.

He didn't so right, so something something in his youth steered

him down the right path. So I had him odd one time.

I always play a buy or sell game in big stakes races, and I was

asking him what he wanted to play.

So for example, in the Wood Memorial preview we did, we

played hardwood or plywood. We always play that game.

OK, Gazelle and donkey, these kinds of these kinds of games,

right? I asked him if he wanted to play

Yankees and Mets for that. He said, Louis, I have to go to

Queens. I can't do that.

I can't put the bets out like that.

Deal with the folks there in Ozone Park.

But here's Sean and here is Bob live there in Ozone Park.

The final wood memorial there at Aqueduct.

Up next here on BLOOD HORSE Monday.

All right. Thank you, Louis and Joe hope

you guys had fun out there at Keeneland with further ado

winning the Bluegrass Stake. So I'm here with Bob Ehalt.

We have experienced it all today, Bob, as far as weather

has gone, I think we have gone through all Four Seasons at

Aqueduct, but quite an impressive win from Albus and

the Wood Memorial. Just what do you think of it?

I thought it was very impressive.

He closed nicely. He got a real good pace to

chase. The early fractions were quick

coming out. He was able to sit off.

He closed really looks like this is a horse who's who's going to

be a contender in the Derby. You know, he's got enough

tactical speed to try to work out a good trip.

Certainly I think the distance people might warn about the

breeding with Yopan, but I mean, Yopan is the son of Uncle Moe.

So let's let's see about that. But certainly he looks the role

of a certainly looks the role of a contender in this race.

And you got to give a young trainer, Riley Mott credit

having two horses in the Derby. This one I think is is going to

be is going to be a factor. And I think you could say it's

going to be interesting about the second horse right to party

really, boy, he was you looking at the at the replay and he's

there like, you know, just at the back on the rail now.

I don't know. He came about from the rail to

about the nine path in the stretch.

So I don't know about that move, but he certainly closed really

fast at a mile and an eighth race that I would think, you

know, if everything goes right, I would think he certainly would

look like a candidate. You do have to nominate him, but

I could I I think it's worth a try, that's for sure.

So and you know, you had the long shot players did really,

really well. So it was a bomb.

As for the some of the other ones, talk to Chad Brown.

He felt Iron Honor did not really get a good trip pushed

out. He didn't like the post.

I think he's still kind of, if the horse comes out of the race,

well, I think he's going to wind up going to the Derby.

So so he's got the 50 points. We'll have to see.

We go upstairs and wait to see what happens in the Santa Anita

Derby to kind of close out the points system.

But if he is still in the running, I would say he's going

to. He's probably Chad is is still

keen on sending him. He thinks he's really still a

very good horse. He didn't seem with Otinho.

Otinho. Otinho, something like that, Who

was running a bluegrass? The horse in the Bluegrass who

was second, he wasn't as he wasn't as overwhelmed with him.

I mean it was a long way back to 2nd.

So he's got the 50 points that usually gets you in the Derby,

but he didn't seem as enthused about this one as he did on

Certainly Thinking High. An honor which deserves a second

chance. Yeah, well, Albus here winning.

I talked to Jaime Torres a couple races before and he

reminded me that a couple months ago he told me that there was

another horse aside from Incredible, who he won the

Virginia Derby on a few weeks ago that he was really high on,

and that was this horse right here.

Albus, obviously he lived up to that.

Riley had a lot of high expectations.

You talked to Riley, what after the right after the race?

What did he tell you about the horse?

Well, he really he feels this horse has really kind of come of

age for him again that he feels he's a horse who likes the

distance, wants the two turns was, you know, was pretty happy.

I mean, these are kind of races that his dad was he's watching

his dad grow up winning and now here he is.

It's not a grade one in New York anymore, even maybe if it

should, but it's still one of the premier New York races that

he's winning. And he thought certainly that

this horse and he's looking forward to getting him down to

getting him down there to Kentucky, get ready and feels,

you know, this horse has about as good a shot as anybody.

I think, you know, we'll we'll see further ado certainly look

very impressive. But you know, we're going to

have to see does he bounce off that race or does he go forward?

I mean, there's a there's going to be a lot of moving parts

going into play before the Kentucky Derby.

I read has a couple of mounts. What does he do?

A lot of interesting questions are going to be going to be

answered in the next few weeks. Yeah, and make sure you tune in

Blood Horse Monday and Blood Horse at the Derby, which we'll

be doing every day leading up to the Kentucky Derby here at the

end of the month for all of those updates.

Bob, it was a different feeling here at Aqueduct today.

Obviously Aqueduct will be closing on June 28th.

This was the last Wood Memorial held here.

I know you talked to quite a few trainers in advance, the race

about that. I know you've been coming here

for years. I've been here many times over

the last decade. Just what was the feeling like

for you and what was kind of the feeling like for everybody that

you talked to? I, I, I think, you know, one of

the things is this is a, it's a, it's a hard, it's a hard goodbye

from the sense of to be frank, you, you're going to miss, I

think the memories that you had in this place.

There were great races. You saw the great horses that

you saw, but the building itself, which is going to be

gone at some point, it's been kind of in disrepair for so

long. Kind.

Of like how we feel about Pimlico.

You're gonna miss the memories. Yeah, you know the building.

At least here the elevators work, unlike Pimlico.

So you know. I don't, I don't have to go in

an elevator shed, you know, some sort of elevator lift to try to

get up to the press box. But I, I think that's, that's

the hard part of it, that this was a long goodbye, some people

might say when it really started to close, when the casino opened

and they got rid of the grandstand and they condensed

things. And, you know, look, this is not

to be taken as an indictment of Naira.

If by any means, if you know, this building is going to

eventually face the Wrecking Ball, why are you going to put

millions into it when you're spending 545 million to so to

build the new Belmont Park? So, I mean, nobody, nobody

chastises them or, or, you know, criticizes what they're doing.

But I think that that does kind of come into play.

This wasn't the aqueduct. I remember when I first came

here in 1971, a lot changed. There used to be a backyard.

You know, things were a little bit different.

But, you know, I think, as I say now, I think we're all, we're

all at the point of we're ready to move on.

We're ready to see what this new Belmont looks like.

We've been hearing about it for several years.

We're kind of looking forward to it.

We'll miss Aqueduct for the memories that we had here, but I

think in terms of the racing and the facility we will be.

We'll be happy to go to the new Belmont and you don't have to

deal with the traffic. That is true.

Now Albus is going to be up against some history here and

we're probably going to hear about this nonstop for the next

4 weeks. The Wood has not been the best

producer of Kentucky Derby winners.

It really in my lifetime. The last horse to come out of

the Wood and win Kentucky Derby was Funny Side in 2003.

The first Derby I remember watching was Smarty Jones the

next year in 2004. Forgetting this year and

whatever Alvis ends up doing when we switch the Wood Memorial

over to the new Belmont Park, is there any possibility we maybe

see a change in that or more people sticking around for the

winter or better horses coming up here?

I know it's going to be a one turn mile and an eighth.

So is are we going to see more of the same or do you think we

might see something a little bit different at the new Belmont?

Well, remember the first, the earlier legs of the series are

going to be on synthetic, They're going to be on the all

weather surface. So the dirt horses aren't going

to be up here, they're going to show up for the wood.

It's kind of how lucky you get. And, and let me say this, I

think, you know, I'm I really, there are some things with the

graded stakes committee I totally disagree with.

I think like when you degrade a race like the wood from Grade 1

to grade 2, you're homos condemning it to B grade 2

because that's what trainers look at.

I mean, the same thing they did with the Cigar Mile.

They made it a grade 2. And I remember talking to a

trainer about, you know, you're going to come out to the Cigar

Mile and he said, well, oh, is that a grade 2?

He says, yeah, oh, I'm not coming.

Yeah. So when you make these races

grade twos, it's hard to get them back up to the grade one

level because hey, on this weekend, if you go to If you go,

you go to Keeneland, you get a Grade 1, you go to Santa Anita,

you get a Grade 1. You go to higher, you go to

Gulfstream, you get a Grade 1. You go to Oakland Park, you get

a Grade 1. The amount of money that horses

get for those grade one in terms of breeding and breeding rights,

people are going to go to those grade one races.

So in terms of the wood, trying to get back the fact that it's

going to be a one turn mile and an eighth and it's going, you

know, you're going to have a winter on an all weather

surface. I I think it's going to be hard

unless you really kind of catch lightning in a bottle.

I mean, hey, who knows a horse like horse like, you know, right

to party or Albus, they get the right trip.

Maybe they win. You just you know, again, it's

the Derby, it's the 20 horse field.

Anything can happen. But in terms of getting the real

good horses, that's that's a challenge.

And, and and I will say this, if they want to keep the wood at a

Grade 2, I want to know why the Remsen isn't a Grade 1.

That's 'cause that's really producing.

Yeah, that that is a horse that is producing quality horses.

For the last few years you have Sierra Leone and Dornoch, you

had Paladin and Renegade, you had MO Donegal.

OK, if you whatever you want to say, if that's a great, if

you're telling me, that's great too.

With those horses, I don't understand it.

Make the Remsen a grade one you don't want.

To make the wood a Grade 1 of it, that's going to fall on deaf

ears. Remsen, Grade 1.

Well, you've mentioned you've been to a lot of races here,

Aqueduct. Is there a wood memorial that

stands out? A race that stands out to you

from over the years? A race, one of the probably the

race, if there's one race here at Aqueduct that I will

remember. I got to go back to say, is it

1982, I think, or one I forget the year off, but it was

actually the Gotham Stakes and it was a race between Cure the

Blues and Proud, Proud Appeal. And I was a big Proud Appeal

fan. It was a mile race, one turn.

It was a foggy day here and those two horses ran their

eyeballs at and I was a huge proud Truth fan and he, that

little horse gutted it out. And for me, that was just such a

really, really great thrill. And from the wood, you know,

watching Easy Goer. Oh yeah.

Could perform in it. That's that's that was

unbelievable. I actually saw my first wood in

1972 when Uppercase 1, the stablemate of River Ridge, and

then back in those days showing my age.

But to go to college I had to work in a gimbals department

store in Stamford, CT to pay for my college tuition.

So from like 73 to 78, I couldn't get out to the wood

because I was working. But then when I got my first job

at the Norwalk Paper in Connecticut, I got to cover the

79 wood and I've been here ever since.

So, you know, I also would say putting Bellamy Rd. was just a

performance where, you know, at the top of the stretch it

didn't, it looked good. But boy, I to see a horse just

leave the rest of them like they weren't even running that.

That was a very impressive race. I won't forget.

Yes. Well, Bob, thank you for all

your years of covering Aqueduct here.

You can catch his recap of the Wood Memorial on bloodhorse.com.

Make sure you check that out. We'll be reading a lot of you

coming up here as well. With Aqueduct closing in a few

months, Belmont Park opening, it's our New York guy right

here, Bob E Hall, but we'll send it back to the studio for right

now to continue. Blood Horse Monday, myself and

Louis actually on Monday coming up in the studio to talk to

Santa Anita Derby. Now one thing do they have

T-shirts? They did have T-shirts.

If you know, you know. All right, I lied, Louis.

We are not back together in the studio.

As I mentioned, I didn't realize on Saturday that I was going to

once again run into a travel problem as I was trying to come

home from a Kentucky Derby prep race.

But that just seems to be my theme for the year, so I

wouldn't have it end any other way, right?

I would. Let's put it this way.

When I travel with Barry Spears, When you travel with Barry

Spears, no travel issues at all, right?

Just not at all. Barry Spears apparently controls

the weather. I had no idea.

But no. When you travel by yourself,

young child, college, it does not work out and it's not a

thing I. Usually, I usually do not have

many problems, but I guess the Derby prep season's just been

just been getting me this year. But luckily this one wasn't too

bad. I I the flight that I was

supposed to be on from Pennsylvania back to Atlanta, I

got delayed to the point where I'd missed my connecting flight.

So just rebooked for the next day.

I get to spend an extra day at my dad's house, so yeah.

I was going to say. This one third or fourth episode

that I'm doing from my dad's house, so shout out to him for

providing me the studio. You're obviously not in our

studio. Where are you today?

Louis, I am not. I'm in the 93.9 FM studio here,

so I'm across the hall from 680. I might do my radio show right

across the hall here on U of LS campus every single weekday,

Monday through Friday, and that's where I'm at.

But Sean, this is a tough game horse racing because you know, I

was just at the Bluegrass. We expected to see talent and he

wasn't there in the fall. We met a horse named Ted Noffe

that we thought was going to be a huge part of the Derby trail

as a three-year old as well and certainly needs some time off

for an injury himself. But then we see those speed

through of colors on the track in Keeland this weekend.

Our guest this week is who and I'm I'm really excited about

this. Yeah, we're going to have Ned

Toffee back on. Not Ted Noffee.

We are not going to have Ted Nafi on the show, but we will

have Ned Toffee back from Spencer Farm.

We had them on right after Ted Nafi won the Breeders Futurity

last year. Obviously there was a lot of

excitement going on. They were coming off a big

weekend of their runners at Spendthrift, just winning all

over the country, both at Keeneland and at Santa Anita.

So it'll be interesting to hear his take here on losing the

number one horse on the Kentucky Derby trail in January and now

potentially having either the number one, two or three Derby

horse as we're entering into the first Saturday in May.

I know you and Joe talked about that race quite a bit.

Obviously it was a very impressive performance by

further ado. I have since when we've when Bob

and I did that little segment there, we hadn't watched the

race yet and I have since watched the race And boy, he he

certainly looked good out there. Keen wind.

I think he retreated to a real show.

We were treated to an absolute show and obviously Joe and I

coming at this from a slightly different angle about how good

of a performance that was. And frankly, now with the

hindsight of seeing the speed figures from the different

services and that sort of thing, it does hold up as one of the

grand performances. And frankly, you can hear it at

Kurt Becker's voice. That's a guy who's called a lot

of bluegrasses. That was a different kind of

performance. That's not a sort of thing that

we're very used to, frankly, that way.

But again, look, man, not a great predictor is the Bluegrass

for high level success in the Kentucky Derby.

We'll have to see how how that plays out, but I'm sure I'm, I'm

sure Ned's doing OK. Yeah.

I'm sure that they're doing just all right.

So it'll be interesting to hear from him, his thoughts on the

performance and everything as they head toward the first

Saturday in May. All.

Right, well, he's made an interesting life choice.

He's back on Blood Horse Monday with us, which makes him friend

of the show. Ned Toffee.

I'm not sure that that's a great idea, but here he is anyway from

Spendthrift. All right, Actually, it's a

great idea. How is Saturday, Ned?

I bet you're I bet you're doing OK today.

Good afternoon. Yeah, no, it wasn't a bad day at

all. It's fun fun fun to get a little

lucky. Oh, man, yeah, get a little

lucky is right. Of course, we're talking with

Ned Toffee, namesake of Ted Noffee, winner of the Breeders

Cup Juvenile in every other race that he's running in his life to

this point out of there at Spendthrift Farm.

Ned, the emotion of, you know, we haven't talked to you since

since old Ted was taken off of the Derby trail at the time.

What were the emotions knowing that, Yeah, he had to be off the

Derby trail? Looks like he's going to be OK,

but man really wanted to see him in Louisville under those.

Yeah, I, I think no question. Look, we all, we, you know, the

Derby's the race, right? I mean, it's, it's, but I will

say this, I, I think, you know, it's not uncommon for horses to

either get hurt or to just need time off.

And she's the horse, 4 for 4/3 time, Grade 1 winner, champion,

2 year old. Like, you know it, it's hard not

to just be happy about that. Obviously we want to go on, but

but that's kind of the reality. Horses need a little time.

He's getting some time and and hopefully kind of beginning of

May, he's going to start back. So it's yeah, disappointing,

obviously. No, no, no question.

But I also think you, we just got to appreciate what he's done

for us. And you know, he was certainly

not cheap, but he was, he was $650,000 yearling purchase.

I think it's safe to say he's worth a little bit more than

that now. And, and he'll, he'll wind up in

our stud barn with with any kind of luck.

And you know, so I think we just have to appreciate that and and

also the fact that he is going to get, you know, he's going to

get an opportunity to run some more and what that looks like

when exactly he's ready to roll. Well, he'll tell us so, but but

certainly at some point this fall.

Prior to that news breaking of course, in November.

So not a bad October, November for Spencer.

If there's further ADO goes ahead and gets it done in the

Kentucky Jockey Club. At that point, what are you

thinking? At that point, when you've got a

tent off you, you've got a not a terrible backup here in Further

ADO. Yeah, well, you know, I, I, I,

I, I do. I do remember when he, when

Further Ado won the Kentucky Jockey Club, You know, I

remember some of my family members were were sort of

lamenting, well, wait a minute, what if he's, what if he's

better than Ted? We'll make it work.

So, you know, maybe this is, maybe this is a blessing for all

of our sanity. But look, he's, you know, we, we

bought him at a 2 year old training sale last spring.

We thought he was the kind of horse that had some talent and,

and had the ability to carry it. He's kind of made that way.

And you know, we were, we were a little disappointed after his

first two starts, but as soon as he went two turns, you know, the

light went on and you know, so it's obviously been really

exciting. And look, you know this is not

an easy game we go to. We buy a lot of horses every

year, yearling sales, 2 year old sales and we breed and race a

number of our own. And look, it's just you go to

the sales every year with the best of intentions and it

doesn't always work out. So we've been very fortunate

that this year or you know that we're seeing the results of a of

a couple of really good years at at, at both at auction and

yearling and two year old as as well as you know with some home

bred. So we've had had a good little

run and hopefully we can keep that going well.

I just want to expand on that a little bit too.

Just what does it say about your team that you guys have put

together, you know, either on the sails or whether it's on,

you know, the training and the managing the racing side of

things that you can lose the number one horse on the Kentucky

Derby trail and then just a few months later you potentially

have the number one horse again with a different horse.

Well, yeah, I think it you know, I think in any endeavour, you're

you're only as good as the team that you have put together.

And and I think but it starts with the with the ownership.

Tammy and Eric Gustafson have done such a great job of, of

carry on and carrying on and even developing what, what

Tammy's father Wayne started here.

And but over the years we've, we're, we're going on 22 years

now almost. And we've been able to put

together a really good team of people here.

And so I think that was one of the things that was so

gratifying was it that we did have home brands, We had some

yearlings, some some yearling sale purchase and some 2 year

old sale purchases. So it really felt like, and then

a lot of those were by our own sires.

So it really felt like, you know, we were, we were firing on

all cylinders and that's great because that's, that's, that's

an indication that, that, that the team is, is doing what

they're supposed to do. But we all know that you, you

can go out here and have plenty of money and, and, and, and go

through all the motions and make all the effort and not have the

luck that we had. So, you know, it does, it does

still come back down to lock. And we had, we had a lot of good

luck last year and, and, and that's hopefully that'll

continue for us. He's joined us again.

His name is Ned Toffees from Spendthrift to Further Ado, of

course, the runaway winner of the Bluegrass at Keeneland this

week. And he ran that Tampa Bay Derby

and we're we're seeing, you know, Ted on the handicapping

side of things. We're always looking for which

route was the best one to the Kentucky Derby.

Some years it's the Remsen seems to give us a bunch of Grade 1

winners. And then this year it seems to

be that tamper route. What went into the decision

making to get him to the Bluegrass?

Is that a Brad Cox decision? Is that an ownership decision?

Where did that end up? Yeah, I think, I think it was.

It was discussed all the way around.

But I, you know, I, I would definitely, I would give the

credit to to Brad, but it was something that we all talked

about. And you know, really the idea

was we gave him a little time after the the Kentucky Jockey

Club and the Bluegrass was, was very much a goal.

You know, yes, we want to win the Derby.

Yes, we'd love to have a go on, have a great year.

But it was really important to us to go on and get a Grade 1 to

to really because because our program is really built around

our stallion bar. And so we wanted to get him a

spot, really secure him a a solid spot in in our breeding

shed. And I think the Bluegrass, you

know, the Kentucky Jockey Club went went part of the way in

doing that. But the the the bluegrass

really, really so solidified that.

And so that was the goal. We we went into Tampa.

Part of what Tampa was about was just not having to ship.

You know, we we could have shipped up for for to Oak Lawn

or to to fairgrounds, you know, wonderful races there purse was

a little less at Tampa, but it was really more about let's not

ask too much of them. Let's just get him up there.

Let's get him a race. He may not be cranked all the

way up for Tampa, but that was kind of a means to to, you know,

to an end. And I thought he ran a good race

there and we saw what we wanted. Todd reported or sorry, sorry

Brad reported that he was, you know, he came out of that race

with, with, with good energy. He he felt like he we all, we

felt like he had moved forward and he obviously demonstrated

that on Saturday. Well, you guys obviously are

based up there near Lexington, KY, the horse capital of the

world, the breeding capital of the world for this industry.

What is it like seeing your, your silks, the Spencer silks

pulling away from the field like that?

You got a preview back in October with this horse and then

and again on the biggest stage in the Bluegrass.

Sure, all your all your friends and family are there.

All the other breeding farms in the area, all the potential

breeders that might want to breed to this horse in the

future are there. What was it like seeing him just

put on that display at that track?

Well, obviously it was great. You know, the bluegrass, those,

those are the kinds of races that we're shooting for.

It's great that he was able to do it in front of breeders.

It's great that we had for myself family.

We had a lot of the farm that was able to be there.

He was able to do it, as I said, in front of breeders.

Actually one of the really cool things and we we had both Tammy

and Eric Gustafsson, some of their family and they had

brought some people to the races that had actually never been to

A to a live horse race before. And, and they were in tears as

that horse was crossing the finish line.

They were just that moved by what, by what they saw.

And you know, it's a good reminder.

We, we, we've all done this. And maybe we all get a little

hardened and, and crusty about it all sometimes, but it's, it's

just a reminder what, what the effect that horses and, and

thoroughbreds in particular can have on people.

And it was really fun for me to watch their reaction to what he

did. And it was, it was pretty.

It was pretty special. Well, the crowd of Kingwood

certainly appreciated it as well.

Ed Toffee from Spencer joining us here.

I'm Blood Horse Monday. He's Sean Collins.

I'm Lou Urbel. Thanks for starting your horse

racing week with us. The Bluegrass historically not a

predictor of winning the Kentucky Derby.

Do you think about those sorts of things or is it more just,

hey, let's get that Grade 1 and and essentially, hey, if we win

one of these things, we'll get a shot at the Derby.

That's what we're worried. About yeah, I, I think, I think

all that is a little overrated you know.

Worked all right for street Sense and and I was sitting.

Back when I was. Supposed to work, you know, so

you know, I, I, I think that stuff we, we make.

You know, we make a little too much out.

Of that stuff sometimes, yeah. Would I rather have maybe a

fifth week going in it? Probably so.

But with just one well, that now being his second race off the

layoff, obviously ran a great race.

Brad is telling us that his energy is great.

He's he's he's jogged him up since then and he's he's moving

really well. And again, you know that his

energy level is really, really good.

So I think coming out of a race like that to, to see to see that

is, is really a positive. And look, you know, the Derby is

tough. You know, it, it's, it requires,

particularly with 20 horses being in there.

You know, for me, the biggest knock on the Derby is that so

often it's about the trip. It's, it's luck plays a bigger

role in the Derby than probably any race that gets run all year

long because of the 20 horse field.

And so, you know, if we have the luck and, and, and, and, and you

know, we're able to, he's able to work out the trip we want, I

think we've got as good a shot as anybody.

And there I know, I know there's going to be a lot in there that

are going to have to be worried about us.

We'll be worrying about them, but they're going to have to

worry about further ado as well. So, you know, I wouldn't, I

can't say I'd trade places with anybody right now.

Well, one of the unique parts about this year's Derby is even

if Further Ado gets beat, it's there's a potential that your

farm's gonna make some history in this race.

Into Mischief could become the all time Derby leading sire if

he can get his fourth one this year.

He had a big weekend last weekend with Commandment in the

Florida Derby and Renegade in the Arkansas Derby.

What was that weekend like for you guys seeing him pick off 2

of the key preps? Yeah, that was that was really

special and just, you know, it, it, it's, you know, this horse

just you, you start to run out of superlatives.

He just keeps doing 1 remarkable thing after another.

You know, he's just, it's really remarkable.

And I I think starting off you, you never know what kind of a

stud career horse is going to have.

But you know, to have gotten to the point where he is where he's

no horses sired more Derby winners than him is, is pretty

remarkable. And and the stat I've I've said

this before, but I think one of the most remarkable stats about

him is that he's now seven years consecutive leading general sire

and the last force to do that, you have to go back to bold

Ruler in the late 60s, I guess early 70s too.

But but, and then after that, you go have to go back all the

way to Lexington. You have to go to the 1870s.

So that's it. That's the only horses that have

done that or more. And so it, it really, you know,

they're just the historical perspective that Indy Mischief

keeps giving us. Is, is, is really, really

remarkable. And that was Eclaton getting,

getting the grade one on Saturday was was #30 for his

career. And, you know, so I, I thought

we were going to get #31 in the sand Anita Derby.

And I just settled, settled for a second.

But but yeah, he just keeps getting it done.

And it's, it's really remarkable.

But especially when you consider that this is a horse that, you

know, first couple years nobody wanted to breed.

So it says a lot about it says a lot about this game.

I. Just Ned, if you had to, I mean

if you had to describe what, what in a mischief means to you

guys, could you do it, Miss? Could you put words to it?

And is there anyway? But I mean, he just, it's I, I,

I think he does illustrate something that Mister Hughes

used to love to say about this game is that nobody knows.

We don't know where where the best sire is coming from.

We don't know. You're looking out on the field

over of a bunch of yearlings. You don't know which one is

going to be the best runner. We all have opinions and, and,

but you know, it's a pretty low batting average.

And that's probably the best analogy is comparing what we do,

whether you're talking about a trainer or stallion statistics

or whatever they're, they're probably, you know, they're even

a little lower than what a, what a your typical batter could

expect, you know, but you, you, you, you strike out set or you,

you fail 7 out of 10 times in baseball.

And you have a yeah, plaque in Cooperstown.

And, and, and this game is very similar.

And, and I think that's why a lot of baseball players

translate really well to be in, to be in thoroughbred as they,

you know, the, the, the strike rates kind of similar.

And, and they, they understand that.

And, but yeah, I mean it, Indonesia really illustrates

that you, you just never know where they're coming from.

And, and he's, but, yeah, he's been everything in.

And look, you know, Mr. Hughes used to love to say it was

Malibu Moon that put us on the map, and he he really did that.

But certainly Hindu mischief has taken taken us another several

steps forward. Well, another sire who might be

taking you some more steps forward would be Yaupon.

I think a lot of people kind of think of him as a sprinter, but

he gets Albus to win the mile and an eighth Wood Memorial and

qualify for the Derby this weekend.

Just how big is that for a sire like him who's thought of as a

sprinter to have a horse win a race like the Woodland?

Well, I, I know at least one of our sales guys got a lot of

calls on, on, on, on Yaupon over the weekend.

And that is a big deal because I think people were maybe wanting

to pigeonhole him a little bit as a Sprint sire.

But I'll remind everybody that they wanted to do that within

the mischief too. So there's no question, I think

the, the Yaupon or Yaupon is going to be a great source of

speed already is a great source of speed.

But you know, I, I think you're going to see plenty of these

that, that that can handle it at least at the very least a mile.

No problem. And, and, and go on.

You know, even even more so than that, you know, we have a cult

named local knowledge that he was one of the we had the day in

in fall meet at Keeneland where we were, we were 4 for four out

there. And that was a pretty special

day. But one of those was was local

Knowledge, a Yaw Pond colt that we bought at a 2 year old sale.

And, you know, one of the horses that finished behind him that

day was Commandment. Commandment had a pretty grip in

that race, but that was looks like it was really sort of a key

race. Now he, he local knowledge got

some time off, but he's coming back and he's back with Todd

Pletcher and Breezing and, and so it won't be too, too much

longer before he's back on. But he's in, he's, I think in

elite talent and and I think he's got the, the, the size and

shape of a horse that'll stretch out.

So but if nothing else, we know he's fast.

So he's, yeah, you hop on his has, has really had, he got off

to a great start and, and you know, he got a little bit quiet

and all of a sudden he's, he's, he's woken back up and, and

breeders are certainly sitting up and taking notice.

Ned Toffee will get you out of here on this.

Whenever I interview trainers, I try to ask them, do you allow

yourself to dream about that Derby winner's circle?

About whatever it might be, whatever winner's circle matters

the most to you? You talked about the Bluegrass

wanting to win that race. Does Ned Toffee let himself

dream about that Derby winner's circle for?

I am. I won't say this as a very

positive thing about myself. I, I, I can probably tend to be

a little negative. So my dreams are usually more

along the lines of nightmares. I spend a lot of time all the,

all, all the things that, that, that can go wrong, you know, and

we got that. I mean, we, we've won one Derby,

but we actually had two horses in the Derby and one of them

flipped over in the, in the, in the paddock.

That was the words that had to be scratched and that was as low

as as it gets. And, and then about 20 minutes

later we were winning the Derby with authentic and that's about

as high as it gets. So, you know, that's kind of how

this game goes. And, and so, yeah, I, yeah,

certainly, I think I, I do, I do let myself dream a little bit.

But I'm also a realist and sometimes maybe too much of A

pessimist. So I've, but I've seen, I've

seen, you know, I've seen all the best and, and unfortunately,

some of the worst. Ed What else?

You got into mischief, you got further ado.

What else do you need, brother? Yeah, you got great.

What do you need? So we have hopefully we'll have

have a few more rooting interests here pretty soon too.

Well, in in typical Blood Horse Monday fashion, Louis told you

it was gonna be the last question and then I came up with

one more question for you. So we gotta we gotta end on

this. So the saddle towel during the

bluegrass had further Ado's name misspelled.

It was missing the R between him and Ted Nafi as a starting.

Are you guys wanting typos on all your horses?

I absolutely I am. I am hoping that it's, you know,

further to do or something like that for the for the dirt to do.

I hope, yeah, I hope they screw it up because yeah.

And I'll and I let's make sure we give credit where credit was

due. That was that was a blood horse

typo that led to Ted Noffee. So.

We we were not involved with the saddle towels.

This weekend. So good.

Anyway, yeah, no, it was we, we, we got a big, we got a big

chuckle out of that. And and yeah, I think we'll

might have two, two might have two saddle towels on display

here. We might have a further ado and

a further ado. So anyway, yeah, that was that

was, that was fun. That's the good stuff for sure.

Well, Ned, thanks so much for jumping back on continued

success and safe trips for everybody.

So glad to hear that. It sounds like further ADO came

out well and we'll see you in Louisville a couple weeks.

Fingers crossed. Thanks very much for having me

all. Right, thanks for that.

There you go Ned Toffee from over there at Spendthrift.

Appreciate him jumping on the program.

All right, thanks again to the folks at Spendthrift, just a

what a roller coaster year it's been for them.

But of course further ADO getting it for the for the ADO

of course, getting it done there in the blue.

By the way, I think I think a bit like, you know, the word

jumbles and connect, connect the dots as a kid.

I'm not against more misspellings on saddle claws.

I actually think it adds spice to the sport.

The fact that horse players are so concerned about this is one

of the reasons, Sean, that we love horse racing is the

absolute psychos that hang out with us every week and care

about things like this on saddle claws.

It's just fantastic. But it made me smile too.

But yes, congratulations to all their connections.

They're certainly the folks at bed thrift.

Further ado looking as good as you're going to look at a Derby

prep this year for sure. But of course outlast another

horse that looked absolutely spectacular in their Derby prep

was so happy winning the San Anita Derby the 100 points there

and boy, you talk about the roller coaster of of horse

racing Sean. This is where you got to be a

little less than human not to feel great for Mark Glatt in

this spot. Unfortunately, losing his his

wife just frankly a few weeks ago in February unexpectedly and

comes back as a horse of this quality decides to give him a

second go after that San Felipe where frankly, Sean, it just

kind of looked like he wasn't going to want 9 furlongs, 10

furlongs, whatever it might be. And then he gets into a battle

with Potente and he's just better.

He's just better. And Potente is one of those

horses we've talked about for a really, really long time.

Just give him the distance. Well, he got the 9 furlongs

here. Boy, how good does so happy look

on Saturday. Oh, he looked amazing on

Saturday. It's funny, you mentioned

earlier in the show and you know, Bob and I mentioned as

well the bluegrass in the wood. Even though we got good

performances from them this weekend, they haven't really

been the best historical predictors in recent years for

the Kentucky Derby versus the Santa Anita Derby is.

And I feel like so Happy hasn't been getting talked about quite

as much. I think a lot of people, just a

lot of people are just putting the putting the distance on him,

the son of Run Happy. But we know he's got blame on

the blame on the damn side. Run Happy never really got a

chance to go far. He's the son of a Kentucky Derby

winner himself, and so the distance could be there.

And Mike Smith, when we talked to him before the San Felipe, he

seemed confident he was going to be able to get the distance.

And I think what we learned was just the speed duel that he got

into at the San Felipe just didn't work out for him.

And now he's able to kind of sit back.

We got to see him relax, be off the pace, and we saw him finish

well. There's nothing but the finish I

saw that suggested he wouldn't be able to get the mile and a

quarter if he can get that same kind of trip patente.

I I think he kind of got sucked into the same thing that's so

happy, got sucked into the San Felipe where he got into less

than ideal spot. I don't really like him being on

the lead in that kind of scenario, battling it out.

So we'll see what the California horses are when they match up

against some of these horses that are back east.

But I feel like both of them, if they can not be on the pace and

they can kind of sit back and make a run, I wouldn't be

shocked to see either of them run really well in the Kentucky

Derby. I think Patente is actually set

up to be OK. I want everyone to hear what I'm

saying. I'm not comparing the horses,

but I think of a horse that finished second in 100 point

prep. He reminds me the most of

sovereignty from last year. Here's here's why I do think

you're right, Sean. I think Cherokee Nation

stumbling out of the gate cost him that race because I think he

was going to try to sit right off of his hip and let let the

one horse go. I'll sit right behind you.

I'll do my best running later. And then all of a sudden Jock

looks up. Oh, there's nobody to my inside.

All of a sudden I got to be on the lead.

Am I just going to give that up to Robusta who showed by the

way, last time until the very last second was not going to

give up the distance, you know, give up the lead at 8 1/2 there,

but goes to 9 furlongs today. That part go in the 23 flat.

There's no world in which. Potente should go 23 flat in the

first quarter. Of any race.

It's just not his game. And so that's why I think

Potente is still set up as if you gave me, hey, Louis, you can

only take one horse out of a, you know, a road to the Derby or

one horse from Arkansas, Renegade, one horse from

Louisiana, you know, you know, whatever.

If you had maybe choose one out of the San Anita route, I would

still take potenti at this point.

I think so too. I mean, we, we saw how effective

he was coming from off the pace in the San Felipe.

And so the, and I mean he didn't run bad when he was on the lead

and he was forced into this duel with Robusta.

He didn't run bad either. So you do feel a little more

comfortable going into the Kentucky Derby that if he is

closer to the pace that he's going to be able to, you know,

still give some sort of effort and make some kind of run here.

So he gives me some confidence in that too.

And I mean, the Derby pace scenario, I don't really know

what to expect from that at this point.

I don't know what the we're going to have to really kind of

sit down and look at look at this race.

But it seems like we've got a lot of horses coming from off

the pace winning these prep races.

So obviously 6 speed coming in from Dubai is probably going to

add a little bit of pace, but we we could be looking for those

horses that are going to be sitting second, third, four

fifth, kind of right in behind to make the early run,

potentially out out finish these closer.

So he's shown that he can be in that scenario or if the pace is

faster that he can sit a little bit further back.

So I do like him quite a bit still going into the Derby, but

so happy. I don't want to discount him

either as long as he can get the distance.

I think he showed, I think we weren't expecting to see him

show that kind of effort from off the pace because he had been

up on the front his last couple time.

It's nice to see him be able to sit back, relax, that run.

That's going to be what you need for the first Saturday in May

for sure. Yeah, he's going to need to be a

little more relaxed. He's going to be able to

navigate that trip. You know, how good is this

California route? You and I were at the San

Felipe. I was not overwhelmed by the

the, you know, by the the group of horses there.

I, I did say going into the weekend, and I think it's

something I even said on this program last week was the two

third time starters on the respective coast.

So obviously Iron Honor in at Aqueduct in the Wood and then

out West with Patente in the San Felipe or excuse me, in the San

Diego Derby. If one of them really popped,

Sean, I, I, they were going to be the ones that I was looking

at most seriously for the Kentucky Derby from those

routes, right? If Iron Honor had gotten it done

from the from the 12 hole in the Wood Memorial over a mile and an

eighth and had to work out that trip, we would have had to take

the Wood Memorial winner very seriously and probably seriously

as we have since frosted in 2015, something like that.

I the San Anita Derby route, like you said, historically very

good predictor for high level success in the Kentucky Derby.

I still think Potente if he doesn't inherit the lead, I

still think he's way up there, but I don't know how good that

route is, man. I, I don't think if Potente's at

Keeneland this weekend that that margins much closer.

Frankly, I I think further ado. Puts up too, so.

I'm wondering how good that California route is and I'm it's

not often that I say this because, you know, it's

interesting. Here's a couple of examples.

Rock Your World is a name we're hearing a lot.

Is a sire right now, right? Because he's a you.

Know a value, sire, It's more than I can afford but.

A value sire this kind of thing A.

Bunch of grade ones, that kind of stuff.

Well, he's a great one. Winner out of the Santa Anita

Derby, just didn't fire in the Kentucky Derby.

I'm trying to remember now, Sean, who was the the winner.

I think it was Stronghold. Stronghold wins in Santa Anita

Derby and it just isn't quite of the caliber of that.

Is it that kind of year? My sense is it's that kind of,

it's like a Stronghold kind of. Yeah, yeah.

It seems like it probably is going to be that kind of year.

And I think the real teller has been.

Baffert has not been afraid to ship some of his horses off the

West Coast this year. And they just haven't really

performed that well at some of the other other races.

Like litmus tests has been getting beat.

Butane's been getting beat. You know, we haven't really

seen. Now obviously Baffert's going to

keep his number ones out there in California and we saw that

with Potente. So we didn't get to see maybe

the top of the crop from him travel.

But the fact that his other horses I think have kind of

because you can always kind of use Bob as the gauge as to where

the rest of California horses are.

And usually like in last year when you had journalism beating

Baffert's best horses, you felt like it was a strong year.

And so I don't want to discount so happy because now this is 2

times in a row. Well, two of the last three

races that he's run where he's taken down some of the

Baffert's. But like Butane hasn't come back

and run well against other horses out east.

And we'll see what Potente will do here.

So I don't know, I I was like you, I wasn't feeling like Bob

had a world beater in potente when we left the San Felipe when

we were out there. But and some of these horses on

the East Coast, like the Florida Derby just seems like such a

good race with those top three finishers and then you know.

Let me ask you a question. It gets flattered well before

that. It gets flattered this weekend

by further Ado coming back after getting beat by the Puma.

So I mean, you got to look at the Florida Derby as the key

race, and then you got to look at Renegade having beat and the

Puma and the Sam Davis. You got to look at Renegade in

the Florida Derby. Tampas around Tampas then

they're out this year. It just is.

It just is what it is. Tampas they're out this year it

is. OK, here's the other part.

Remember when we got done with the San Felipe and I said, man,

if I had a horse out east that I thought was like my third

Stringer, I would ship them W OK, yes, come on.

Does the Puma win the Santa Anita Derby this weekend?

I think so. OK, that's kind of my point.

OK, now let's just go through this as empirically as we can.

Let's use the echo based figures to go through this.

There have been. They have measured the Equibase

speed figure since 1992. AP Indy won that year's Santa

Anita Derby. Of all of the Santa Anita

Derby's run since 1992. Where do you think this ranks in

terms of fastest speed rating? The answer is second from the

bottom. OK, it is second worst speed

rating. The Wood Memorial has had the

Equibase Speed rating since 1992.

Devil His Due won that race in the Wood Memorial in 1992.

Ironically, Mike Smith the jockey for that one.

Which memorial since 1992? Where do you think Elvis's

performance in the Wood Memorial ranks among speed figures?

All time in the Wood Memorial. I think I already saw this one

spoil on Twitter. I think that's like second last

two or very close to the bottom. The worst.

OK, and so we have the two coasts this year.

Now let's be clear. And this isn't fair, but it it

kind of is. I do want to make.

One of the Wood Memorial. We don't expect this from the

San Diego Derby, but this is many points, many points slower

than strong. Let's go ahead.

Yeah, I do want to make one caveat to the the Aqueduct one,

the Wood Memorial, that track, I know it was still rated as fast,

but that track did take quite, quite a bit of water.

Yeah. I, I was standing in the paddock

getting pelted during the Gazelle by the raid as it came

in. And so I, I, I don't know how

well that is reflected in some of these speed figures since the

track was still rated fast. But I think both both Albus and

then the Gazelle winner, always a runner.

I think you do have to maybe take their speed figures with a

little grain of salt because it was still rated fast.

But like I could tell I'm looking at Jaime Torres after

the race. He was covered in mud.

So that that I don't know if I really trust the fast rating on

that track. And I don't know how much that

would really play into those numbers, but I would give them a

little bit of a little bit of a extra boost from whatever the.

I don't think that's unfair, by the way.

I think that's totally fine. I'm just telling you, like Sean,

it's just they're they're both historically slow as far as the

figures. You're just looking at numbers,

right? And and look, part of

handicapping is using as many different tools as you possibly

can, right? I'm just throwing this in as

another data point that both of those races just not very fast.

What I'm saying is I'm bolstering your point.

I think the route through Florida, whether it be Tampa or

Gulfstream, I think both have been highly effective.

Further ado was lost. Mckeenland, it's OK to say, and

I don't know if that'll translate to Churchill, but even

if he's four or five points different on his speed figure,

he can still win, right? That's.

Kind of. And he has won at Churchill

before. Correct.

And he's galloped out and all the things that he makes all the

sense in the world. And then look, Renegade went

through that tamper route. His form is incredibly flattered

by what happened in the Florida Derby.

As you point out, he comes out of the Arkansas Derby.

That five weeks off makes a lot of sense as well.

So no, I, I think your winner is going to come out of Florida or

it's going to come out of Arkansas or it's it's further

ado or frankly, who's the one we're forgetting here?

Here's the other one. And it is good luck figuring it

out. How good is full effort on the

dirt? I mean, just good luck because

he was, he was great. He looked like 2 fills the other

day at the Ruby. He's the one.

He's the one. I would.

I'll put it this way, though. I'll put full effort ahead of

any of the horses coming out of California, New York.

I'll do that. Yes, yeah.

Well, I mean, I think I think you can definitely if anybody

wants to say that the Kentucky Derby winner ran in Florida this

winter, I would not argue with them because either between the

Florida Derby or between Renegade and Further Ado having

prep in Florida as well in the earlier rounds, I just don't

yeah, I'm not gonna. I think, I think we can look at

the horses from Florida as probably the horse that ran in

Florida during the prep season. I think we can look at them as

the the top of the crop going into the Derby here.

But as you mentioned, full effort's kind of that wild card.

We'll see whether or not that that'll transfer over to the

dirt course. But I think there's a if you

could bet having run in Florida or having not running run in

Florida, if we could bet that I think.

You take you. Take the yeah, you take Florida

for this. Year for sure.

I think that's totally right. And so those sorts of things I

think are worth keeping our eyes on.

But of course, the Santa Anita Derby, the the Bluegrass and the

Wood will wrap up the 100 point races, the Lexington this

weekend. Sean does not appear to give us

a runner that will potentially make the field.

So largely we have a Kentucky Derby field that's set.

And if anyone ever told you 50 points is good enough, kids

doesn't have to be. I know, I want, I just want to,

I want to make my little speech about this because everybody

still uses like, oh, they got 50 points, they're definitely in.

But this all changed a couple years ago when they added the

points for 5th place. And then it changed again the

very next year when they because of the points for 5th place and

a couple of the runner UPS didn't get in when they bumped

for 2nd place from 40 points to 50 points in this last round.

Ever since then, every year when the point system has finished,

there have been horses with 50 points that have been on the

outside looking in. Now each year we've had

defections to where all the 50 point horses did end up getting

in. So everybody still looks at it

as 50 points gets you in and maybe that's still the case.

But you do have to think a little bit of caution because

one of these years, I don't know if it's possible, but one of

these years we're going to not get any defections in those last

couple weeks and they're going to be horses with 50 points on

the outside looking in, not getting a chance to run in the

race. So especially with three invites

coming out from out of the country, you can't feel

comfortable. Once you get 51 points, I think

is when you can really start to feel comfortable.

Now it does look like we'll probably have a couple drops

this year. Class President obviously had to

scratch out of the bluegrass, so we'll see whether or not he'll

be good to go for the Derby. Stark contrast seems very much

like he's going to end up running in the American turf,

although that's not been officially said yet.

And so it does seem likely. I think we just have two horses

with 50 points that are on the outside looking in.

So it does look likely that the two are going to slide in.

Chip Honcho's right behind them at 49 points.

And so we'll probably, we'll probably get some of these and

there's always somebody that's going to spike a fever or

something get, you know, get a quarter crack in the next couple

weeks. And so, yeah, so we might, we

might see a couple others. But yeah, it does look like we

we need to take the 50 guarantee Z and with a little grain of

salt going forward because one of these years we're not going

to get the drop outs. Do you did you see anybody on

Saturday at at the wood and we talked about Joe and I talked

about this to open the show that looks like a pad day mile horse

to you. Is iron on or a pad day mile

type of horse or do you assume that that Chad Brown would send

him to the Preakness? Well, it sounds like from what

he told Bob that he's still thinking Derby with him if he

can end up getting in, because he he would really wasn't a fan

of the trip And I that was directly after the race.

So now that Chad's had a couple days, who knows if he's still

have that same philosophy, but he he does kind of think about

that. I would think maybe maybe like a

Talk to Me Jimmy kind of horse or Napoleon Solo kind of horse

where they were up on. The Solo's the other one that's

really obvious to me. I think he makes.

Yeah, winner makes totally sense there, yeah.

Yeah, 11 turn mile win in the champagne to I think he would

have to look at the path a mile if it was like him and then

maybe maybe push that to the Woody Stevens if he runs well in

that as well. So to hit those two races.

Talk to me, Jimmy. I mean, he ran so well on the

lead in the in the Withers at a mile and an eighth and then he

came back here and he he lasted quite both of them didn't run

bad. They ended up fading kind of at

the end after going at each other in the early part.

And it ended up as I said, it was a muddy track.

I feel like it was kind of a heavier trek.

And so I think both of them, well, I could see both of them

maybe taking a shot in a race like the Pat de Mile or maybe

talk to me, Jimmy decides to sit out and wait for the priest,

something like that. But I would I would give both of

them a look if they ended up at the Pat de Mile.

Yeah, I wouldn't be stunned to see, you know, like a talk to me

Jimmy, maybe in the Peter Pan even, right, something like.

That yeah, that would be a good. 9th right May 9th find out if he

still wants to run in that kind of company.

Maybe run him in the Belmont, then up at Saratoga.

Because I think if you're talk to me Jimmy's group, I think the

Paddy Mile is absolutely on the table and it should be.

But if you don't want to do that, you can do that route.

And if if the Peter Pan doesn't work out, you pick off all those

New York bred races at Saratoga over the summer and you don't

even think about it, right? Because for A100150 whatever, go

pick those races off. By the way, nothing wrong with

winning a bunch of 6 figure races in New York at Saratoga

for New York stallion purposes and all those things.

And so no problem with that. And I'm sure that they're

thinking about those kinds of routes and those kinds of things

for sure. Iron Honor, though, if you own

that horse, what do you think you'd be looking at?

Would you try to get in the Derby?

I assume it was oncology trying to of course.

Well, yeah, if with me, yes, if, if he gets in the Derby, I think

he's, I think he's 21st on the point board if I'm ever correct.

I think he's one of the ones that's right outside.

So if he gets in, if it was me, I would run.

But you know, I'm, I'm crazy. I just want to be in the Derby

no matter what. But realistically, I mean, he

does. I mean, you've even mentioned it

the second he won the Gotham, he feels like that kind of Chad

Brown skipped the Derby win. The Preakness kind of horse,

your cloud computing early voting type of horse.

He just kind of has that feel to him.

And so it's a route Chad's been successful at in the past.

Or maybe you look at a Peter Pan Belmont double kind of thing

with him. But yeah, it'll be interesting

to see. I think realistically, I don't

know if I really liked his performance enough on Saturday

to run him in the Kentucky Derby.

If he made it in, if I owned him, I would run him because

that's just me. But but if realistically

thinking, I don't think I saw enough from him on Saturday to

want to run him in the Kentucky Derby.

So why not sit out those two weeks, let him kind of get

himself underneath him and head forward to the Preakness?

When you saw Riley Mott on Saturday, did you say you're

welcome for the Blood Horse Monday Bump?

I I just wonder, did you see him?

Did you did you just congratulations for being around

belief? That's what happens.

You win races. No, I, I said to him I was like

no, I, I, I told him I was like 1 Derby horse for your first one

wasn't enough for you, you just had to get a second one.

So he laughed at that. So it's good good to see Riley

now with two horses going into the race.

And I do want to, I do want to give a little shout out to Jaime

Torres as well. I mentioned, I mentioned this

when I was talking with Bob, but he he reminded me in the paddock

a couple of races early. He's like, Oh yeah.

Remember when I told you that there were two horses that I

really liked and there was one other than incredible that I

couldn't decide which one I like more.

It was this horse and he was talking about Elvis.

And so he reminded me. I completely had forgotten that

conversation until he reminded me of it.

This was the few races before the wood and then he ended up

winning the wood. Unfortunately, I did not take

that information and go make a bet.

I should have done that. But I should have done that.

Well, he would have lost if I'd done that.

So. But yeah, so, so Heine's really,

really high on him. We'll see.

Distance wise. Well, I think it's just going to

be interesting to see which one he picks, if it's going to be

his call or if it's going to be Riley's call since they both

have the same ownership here with Pin Oak.

So that's going to be an interesting thing.

But Jaime Torres, I mean, we see we're going to see a couple

jockeys this year that have multiple horses to pick from

going to the Derby. He's one of them.

And you you saw he has ice in his veins.

He won the Preakness couple years ago, first time in a

Triple Crown race and he ends up winning the Preakness on the

lead. So this kid can ride and if he

starts getting these kind of horses, he's going to be a name

we see in the Kentucky Derby for many years to come.

He's got rode two horses in the race right here, his first

Kentucky Derby and he's rode 2 of them into the race and he's

got to pick 1. So we'll we'll see what his

career ends up being. My producer on the radio today

who knows nothing about horse racing when I do the horse

racing side, but he leaves and goes to watch his football.

The it's almost almost a joke. He he picked further ado today.

That's OK. It's probably a good move.

It's probably a good so now I got to get him a hat because

that's my new thing. I got to get people hats because

I know Sean Collins, it's not good.

I don't like, I don't you make me do stuff I don't like.

It's just not it's not a good friendship for me coming back

from New York. And I think I would be remiss

not to ask being at Aqueduct one more time.

It's a place that race especially for you, Sean, so

personal for you. And you have something in horse

racing that so many people listening or watching have that

I simply don't as part of my story.

But I have it now because of my kids is going to the track as a

family and having those traditions and having those

events that we try to go to all the time.

Right. And and it doesn't have to be

the Kentucky Derby. It doesn't have to be the

Breeders Cup Classic. It can be a wood memorial on

what you know is going to be a crappy weather day in Queens.

It can be a bluegrass day where, I mean, you're going to bump

into a stroller and then a drunk college guy over here and then,

you know, a guy who's been to 40 straight bluegrasses.

Or it's that that setting in front of no, the mountains out

in Los Angeles, man, that, that you and your uncle always, you

know, if it's Nick from a couple weeks ago winning the big cap,

you know, just thank goodness that there was someone in your

family that took you to the track.

And we can, we can joke about, you know, lots of things on this

show, but there's nothing better than that, man.

It just isn't. There's something being there.

There's something about that time with family and horse

racing gives you something that other sports don't, which is

time between races. And it, it forces you to be

social. It forces you to spend time with

your family. It forces you to tell jokes and

be funny and and pick horses and disagree with people and go

through the emotions of a race and then have to settle right

back down and talk about where to go get hot dogs or something.

The time, what was it? What was it like and and what

what was the range of emotions on?

Saturday, there are all sorts of emotions with it.

I thought Bob kind of described it perfectly earlier on the you

know, we, we we're going to miss the memories.

But you know, it's it is time for the building to go.

It's time to kind of kind of condense into this nicer Belmont

Park when that does open. But yeah, I mean, for, for those

that don't know, Aqueduct, when I was in high school, my dad and

I would go up to all the Kentucky Derby preps.

So we were going up there, you know, once a month for five

months straight just to go to the Remsen and then the Jerome

and the Withers and the Gotham and the Wood Memorial.

And I was really at the, you know, I'd been a fan watching on

TV, but that was really an early part of getting me out to the

racetrack consistently was getting out there for those

Derby preps. So it's definitely played a big

role in my life as far as getting getting out there to see

the races. It was nice to go up there with

my dad this weekend for the first time ever after over a

decade of going there now, both he and I were able to actually

go down into the paddock. He actually, one of my friends

ended up winning one of the races and he got to be in the

winner's circle photo for that. And then he got to see when I

took him up to the press box at the end of the day while I was

finishing up my work. You know, he got to go see the

inside of Aqueduct that we've never seen before.

So it was a cool experience for, you know, all the times that

we've gone up there to see things a little bit differently

while we were there at Aqueduct this time around.

And I, I do want to say that depending on which video clips

you look at, you know, there's one section, the section to the

left of the paddock. There wasn't, it's not open to

the public. So you see like a couple guys

standing out there that were there from the casino.

And I've, I've already seen some comments of people looking at

that and being like, Oh, it sucks that there wasn't a crowd.

And I'm like, oh, there was a crowd there.

It was over on the the right side of the paddock where we

could be there. The inside was packed there.

That was the biggest crowd I've ever seen at Aqueduct in all the

times that I've gone up there. So the people did show up for it

was nice to see. It was nice to hear the cheer

from the crowd as they broke out of the gate in the wood.

I, I will have one more. I didn't say my goodbye to it

yet. I do plan to be there on the

final day on June 28th, so I do plan there for that as long as I

don't run into any more travel problems.

I'll be flying in. Flying.

Take Barry with you. You'll be fine.

Just take Barry, Yeah. I know, I know, send, send him

out there with me 'cause I'll be, I'll be trying to, I'll be

having close coming in from the Steven Foster.

That, I mean Barry did the 36 hour turn around for the

Bluegrass, no flight issues at all and you can't even get home

from New York after like 4 days. Ridiculous.

I know, but but yeah, it's it's bittersweet seeing Aqueda come

to a close and, you know, seeing, seeing how much winning

there it meant to a lot of the people that won on the day and

just. Yeah, it's, yeah.

It's just, I'm going to miss it. I understand why it makes sense

why from all the financial perspectives, why you're going

to condense into the track that's 15 minutes down the road.

Like all that, all that makes sense.

But. You know it.

It's kind of like Pimlico. It's like the building isn't

that great, but you love it anyway and you enjoy going

there. There's certain memories and

certain things that happen at Aqueduct that you don't get to

experience anywhere else. And so it's it's, yeah, it's

it's I'm going to miss it. And it was nice to be at the

last wood. That was that was really one of

my top bucket list things for me this year was to be at the last

wood. And I'm glad I got to do it.

The last two turn would at least for a while for sure.

I top three mile. And a half going.

Forward yeah right mile and 3/4 just a throwback.

The I nest is like no, no, I'm three, I promise the the I.

So here's the here's the thing about all this coming back, you

know, like full circle with those.

Remember we talked to Robert Lowe last week and I asked him

about winning the Kentucky Derby and the Arkansas Derby.

And it's like, yes, Arkansas Derby is like we win that and

then we'll figure everything else out.

What you just said hits so close to home that it's true in Queens

and it's true in Hot Springs, AR.

You want to win that race of your track, right?

You want to win at, you know, at aqueducts on Wood Day, you want

to win on Arkansas Derby Day, those kinds of things.

So yeah, it just rings true no matter where we are, man,

anywhere in the world. You want to win on your home

track and, and just a cool experience that way for sure.

It was fun to be at a very busy place on Lexington in Lexington

at Keeneland Racecourse. Sounds like Aqueduct was equally

busy as well. So that's awesome.

Of course, this time in the episode, we encourage you to

like, follow and subscribe. Probably should have done that

when I was standing in Keeneland on Saturday, but I didn't do

that. But if you could go ahead and do

that now. You have been.

By the way, we get great comments from all of you.

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Heard all about that last week from our magazine editor here,

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Great piece up right now on Johnny V by our guy Jay Hub D

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Sean. Safe travels.

Eventually I'm sure I'll run into you at some point.

Lexington this weekend. Maybe we'll see our our next

Gossgar in that one. How about that?

You know, in the next Gossgar looking for the next.

Maybe we'll see. Well, looking for Preakness

horses now. We have found our Derby horses.

Now it's time to look for Preakness sources.

And personal announcement, you saw the bloodhorse.com the other

day, the horse racing happy hour.

We are launching happy Hour Indiana tonight at 7:00 Eastern

Time. So if you're so interested in

that, go check it out there. Our friend Barry Spears and our

friend Josh Rodriguez on that one for Sean.

I'm Louis. This has been BLOOD HORSE

Monday. Join us next week.

Does Sean actually get back from Pennsylvania?

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