BloodHorse at Kentucky Derby 152 | Todd Pletcher, Byron King

All right, welcome in backside for a Tuesday edition of Blood

Horse at Kentucky Derby 152 alongside Byron King and Shawn

Collins from Blood Horse. My name is Louis Robot.

Thanks again for hanging out with us on this series.

We're presented by Alex Smallwood and his team there at

Christie's Bluegrass. Appreciate them hanging out with

us throughout the week. Byron welcome and happy Derby

Week. Thank you man, it's good to be

here. It is very good to have you, our

Derby Dozen rider of course at Blood Horse and Blood

ofcourse.com. You could always go check out

his predilections. You had sovereignty on top

beginning to end last year. Was it a little more complicated

as the route with this year? It was far more complicated

because of course we had Ted Nafi, who of course is off the

Derby trail with bone bruising. So he was up top for a while.

Further Ado took the top spot for a while and then I dropped

him after what I thought was a bit of a disappointing Tampa Bay

Derby. But then he bounced back and

he's back on top and that's where he's finishing in the

Derby. Dozen where?

Whether he finishes that way in the Derby, we'll find out, but I

certainly hope so. And these Derby dozens come out

every Tuesday on bloodhorse.com. You can find them in the blood

horse daily, then on the next day as well.

And so as you have been kind of now analyzing the horses out

here, you've been out here for the last couple of mornings.

How much of an impact does that have in kind of your final, your

final weeks here of how the horses are training?

Well, it's certainly, I want to see some good workouts, I want

to see some good training, but they're all individuals and

slightly different. But I mean, I think anyway you

look at it, watching training out here, you'll see horses like

Chief Wallaby and Further Ado turning your head with how

they're doing. I mean, I think Chief Wallaby

has probably been the best workhorse of all of them coming

into it. Further Ado kind of deceptive in

that he has worked really well too because he hasn't had

company, but he's still doing it just like cruising along.

So I really think those two have impressed, you know, but I think

we can overanalyze that. Ultimately, it's far better to

look at what they do on race day than what they do in the

morning. But I think you have to consider

it. You mentioned the Tampa route to

the Derby and we're always kind of trying to figure out where

the the key prep races are going to be and we're trying to figure

it out on Tuesday rather than after the race happens on

Saturday. For sure, certainly for betting

purposes, that Tampa route this year, for whatever reason, so

many fine contenders in the Kentucky Derby have gone through

Tampa, whether it's even just emerging market in a in a maiden

race or those higher levels of Renegade or the Puma, those

sorts of horses. Does that matter for your Derby

dozen as far as where horses have run and where you know,

like the Rems in the last couple of years has really mattered?

Does that play a factor in? Your it does play a factor in

the sense that you know, you naturally want to look at where

is the strength, right? I mean, it's if a basketball

team, if we're picking teams in the NCAA tournament, we're

looking for those that played in good competition and good

leagues, right? Same thing now.

It's a fluid situation. Through the years, the Florida

Derby has been the best prep for the Kentucky Derby.

In contrast, races like the Wood, the Tampa Bay Derby, the

Remsen have not been. But these things change from

year to year. And I think this year, as you

mentioned, Louis, I mean Tampa was incredible.

I mean it was like the maidens came out of their running, the

stakes horses came out of their running.

I mean the Puma, for example, when the Tampa Bay Derby and

them was just beaten this much in the Florida Derby.

So it does change through time and and similarly through the

years we've seen like the Santa Anita Derby be a strong prep,

but I'm not so sure that the California horses this year are

that same quality. When you're analyzing your Derby

Dozen here and you just mentioned the California horses,

when what did you make of Potente, Intrepido and those

guys going so fast the other day during their training in the

morning, how can that kind of impact them in the race?

Well, I think it's the ammo for Bob Baffert, so that part of it

is not really surprising. He works some fast.

It's the way he does it. When they work fast, they

typically run well. I think the other work was a

little bit on the Insanity stage. 45 for 1/2 mile less than

a weekend before the Derby is a little bit too fast, and

apparently Jeff Mullins wasn't thrilled about it.

I think Intrepido was a stretch anyway.

He didn't run that well in the San Anita Derby and if you throw

in a super fast workout, he wouldn't be one that I would be

picking. That's fascinating watching

this. We're backside by the way.

You can see the crowds behind us watching the works here at

churchillnowseanleaningaswellappreciatehimdoingthatbyrondiggalongsidefromthederbydozenofcourse@bloodhorse.com. You know, you mentioned, you

know, the California route, maybe a little bit down.

How much though, with a horse like Potente, you see the work?

You know it's Bob Baffert. How much do the connections that

overcome maybe any of the deficiencies in the route

itself? Well, he obviously cost $2.4

million at auction, so he's one of the most good looking horses

and one of the most well bred horses.

It's Bob Baffert who's won 6 Kentucky Derbies, would have

been 7 if Medina Spirit and Mindy queued.

I mean, you certainly have to respect him, right?

But there's just been so few shippers to California in recent

years for these preps, it's hard to get a real good barometer on

them. And then when you analyze those

that have shipped out of California to say run elsewhere,

you've had a few like Pavlovian run well in a race like the

Louisiana Derby and so forth. But others, like Litmus Test

have kind of underachieved a bit.

So there's really not some concrete evidence to really say

the California crop is is dynamite.

As we are going through the next couple days, you're obviously

going to be putting up your final Derby dozen today, but

what are you going to be looking for in the next couple of days

to really finalize who you might be picking out there there, be

the exact as trifectas and all that type of stuff?

Well, I got to narrow it down a little bit.

I'm definitely going to pick further Ado.

I think I have liked his form. I think he's training fantastic

actually. The big question is, is can he

transfer that form from Keeneland to Churchill Downs?

He did win here last year. I think sometimes we have a

tendency to see patterns that aren't really necessarily

patterns, but just coincidences. So perhaps his brilliance at

Keeneland is just merely brilliance and not related to

Keeneland there. So I'm going to hope at least

that's my angle in the Kentucky Derby.

If it's sometimes through the years we've seen these huge big

win horses with big speed figures that people get off them

for one reason and the other. Oh, it was a perfect trip.

It was this, that and the other and then, you know, they

whistle. So I, I like him.

I like his post Renegade, especially drawing the rail.

I don't like that. So I think he's a, he's a good

solid selection for me. But the rest of them, Sean, to

answer your question about second, third, fourth, you know,

it takes some fine tuning just a little bit.

I've definitely like the way Chief Wallaby's trained.

I definitely like a lot about commandment.

He's not as splashy in the mornings, but they're all in the

mix of course with Renegade as well.

Is there anyone other than Renegade that you mentioned you

didn't like his post position? Are there any other post

positions that are impacting your feeling on some of these

horses? Well, it's really hard to

analyze some of these because you can get a great trip from a

good post and a bad trip from I mean it.

And sometimes it just depends on who crashes into you to your

left, to your right, you know? I mean some post stats just make

no sense like post 17 is. It's cursed.

But but. 16 and 18 or are. Are.

Great are fine. It just doesn't make any any

sense Now the rail at least there's some logic to where you

could say well, he hasn't no one's won since Ferdinand

because there's a big rail next to you and all these horses come

crashing down, you know, so there's at least something to

say. Well, there's that's this isn't

just a statistical. Fluke.

Right. So no, in other words, I think

I'm going to pick the horses I like for the most part and with

the exception of the rail not. I think it'd be over analyzing

it to say I'm not picking so and so because I got 7 or something.

Last one for me, Byron, and I've thought about this after we

talked with Chad Brown the other day.

We were talking about emerging market, third start ever here.

We mentioned Potenti earlier, fourth start ever.

And then you have a horse like Commandment.

If we were doing traditional Derby analysis, ran as a 2 year

old and won undefeated as a three-year old, swept the

Florida series. He would be an overwhelming

favorite coming into this field if we were just looking at those

kinds of metrics that we used for many years in the Kentucky

Derby. I'm wondering if this isn't the

Derby where we have either the traditional ones where we think

of a commandment type who is undefeated at three years old,

goes through that floor to Derby route, or if we get an emerging

market that wins the second, third start ever like we had

with Justify, we were told over and over you can't win the

Derby, you can't do that. He goes ahead and does that in

2018. That's a huge storyline for me

in this Derby is, hey, does that new style work 'cause Chad Brad

was like, Oh no, I like the six weeks between the maiden run and

go into New Orleans and I like the six weeks from New Orleans

to here. That's what I want for my 3 year

olds. Just a difference in, you know,

in training style between him and other people.

I think that's one of the big storylines here.

Does that play into the Derby DOS?

A little. I mean, I think you just have to

know the tendencies of these trainers.

I mean, it would surprise me if Chad Brown ran a horse on 2-3

weeks rest because he does it so infrequently.

This is kind of what he does. You know, it's I think anyway

you slice it, two starts is a disadvantage going into the

conductor Derby. But as far as commandment goes,

you know, I think he's rock solid, but it's hard to say

confidently that he's so much better than any of these others

that are exiting the Florida Derby.

He literally the the Florida Derby came down to a head Bob.

Most people, myself included, watch the replay three times.

What I wasn't sure if the Puma won or again one and Chief

Wallaby has was third. He's a half length back, but he

seemingly is trained better in blinkers.

So certainly commandment. I love how he finishes.

I love how he closes off his races.

I think I like a mile and a quarter, but let's face it, he's

only this much better than the Puma at a mile and an eighth.

And you know, I think that makes analyzing that kind of

traditional path. A little tricky, yeah.

You had sovereignty on top for the entire year last year.

How disappointed were you when Ted Nafi was off the trail?

So that way you couldn't do it two years in a row.

Honestly, though, it was like Ted Nafi felt like such an easy

pick. You know, it was, I probably

cursed him, you know, I mean, I needed to be a little more

creative with it, you know, So anyway, but it, it, it, you

know, that it was a, you know, they say a stop clock is right

twice a day. That was kind of how like last

year was. It was just having to fall

together. Well, if you like stop clocks,

you can check out the Derby does it over at

bloodhorseandbloodhorse.com as Davis, Byron King does that for

us over there. Byron, really appreciate it.

Thanks for. Jumping on us.

Pleasure. Thank you.

Appreciate. It there you go, of course,

thanks to our colleague Byron King there Derby dozen go check

that out today bloodhorse.com. His final rendition, of course,

further ado at the top. No surprises there Byron and I'm

not picking on it. It's just his methodology when

he's got a horse, frankly, as long as they don't look terrible

in workouts or or show something that's like maybe that horse

isn't feeling great right now something like that.

He tends to stick with his post hunter point race type of pick.

Going to stay with further ado here.

I think by the way will be in the top three betting choices

for sure comes out. And and there's there's a strong

possibility of Renegade drawing the rail.

He could even take over the favorites role as betting's

going on. Frankly, just the visual of how

he won the Bluegrass, he's going to win over some better.

Yes, they're going to show that replay on NBC and there's going

to be a whole bunch of people that are like, oh, I'm betting

on that horse and you know. They tell the John Velasquez

story. Or is that exactly?

Yeah. And so, you know, he's our, as

far as Byron's rankings go, you know, we talked had him on Blood

Horse Monday back in February. I think it was how to talk about

kind of his methodology and how he picks them.

And he's trying to pick who's going to be the best at the mile

and 1/4 on the 1st Saturday in May type of thing.

That's what he's really analyzing here.

And so further ado and his mind is the one that is the best fit

for that. He's been training, his training

has not taken away from Byron's mindset.

His post position has not taken away from Byron's mindset.

So everything's checked the boxes at this point, at least

for Byron to put further ado in that.

Leading, yeah. If they swap Further Ado in

Renegade, does he change his? Because I'd love to.

It sounds like that rail was the only one that kind of had any

impact on his thought process, so had further ado drawn down

there would have been interesting to see.

Good to hear from him as well. Kind of his thoughts on how

Chief Wallaby is impressing him out here for.

Sure, and frankly, there's always a buzz horse on socials

or whatever it might be, but to hear it from Byron?

No, no, I saw it too. Yeah, I see those works.

I see what everyone else sees. A horse looks really.

Comfortable here? Exactly.

And he's one of the guys in this industry that's watching the

Derby trail from start to finish with high intensity because he

does have to do that. Derby doesn't he always starts

that off and it's usually around the Le Compte in mid January.

It's going to be when he kicks that off.

And so you know, he's paying close attention to those horses

even before that kind of get an idea of who he's going to have

in that initial top 10. And so if there's anybody who's

been watching these horses and analyzing these horses very

closely, it's Byron King. So to hear his thoughts on, you

know, further ado, to hear of what he thinks of Chief Wallaby

out here in the morning, I think that's definitely a positive

sign in those camps. Tuesday breezes for the

Japanese, one of those cultural differences a little closer to

the race than their American counterparts here.

Obviously, your friend Wonder Dean was out on the track this

morning. If you haven't seen those, by

the way, at DH under score S Collins for all of the videos

you will get to see Wonder Dean's nostrils.

Yeah, very. Close up, he actually yesterday

when he came up to be, it was the first time I've actually

touched it because he actually, he went past the phone and hit

me in the hand. So yeah.

So and then I think I ran into you afterward and I was like,

sorry, sorry for getting some wonder Dean on you.

You're like, I'm not the least bit surprised.

Yeah, not surprised at all. I mean.

I'll ride him if you want. I don't think we're going to win

the Derby if I ride him. But I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll go

out there. We might be.

I might. You'll at least.

Hit the weight minimum for that, yes.

I mean, I'll at least be, you know, if they want him to run

last the whole race because I don't know if I how I'm going to

feel being in between horses. So I might be in the back of the

field. Then there's kickback.

You need to go, buddy. You need to.

Go. We'll be 20 wide at going into

the going into the first turn. I'm just gonna go park in in

position #20 there and stay, stay out of harm's way.

So. But hey, I got to ride in the

Kentucky Derby, so that's put. Shot in your super effect.

Don't bet on me if that somehow happens.

First this morning, just part of that cultural difference, as I

said, as far as training closer to the day.

We've even seen some blowouts on Derby day from Japanese trainees

before. And frankly, it's just part of

the program. We see them doing the lap and

lap and lap around the not just the mile shoot, but around the

track as well. Any visuals for you this

morning? Yeah, I mean, they all looked

like they were. They were going all right out

there. Wonder Deeds just been here for

so long, I almost think it was some.

I know at this point, you know, it's hard for us where we are

here on the backstretch to really fully kind of understand

how they moved just because they're not going quick in the

backstretch portion, whether they're starting off or when

they're coming back around in the gallop out.

So we don't really get to see the stretch run much.

I did see just watch a video of Wonder Dean stretch run.

It looked like he was moving well.

And so, but this is just the way that they do things over there.

We talked about Wonder Dean's last work.

It was a pretty slow, I think like 117 for six furlongs back

on Friday. And so he is a horse that well,

the Japanese just in general, they're not going to work very

quickly. That's not something they're not

going to be posting the Potente and the Intrepido numbers that

we saw a couple days ago. They're not going to be going

too fast. It's more just making sure that

that fitness is there, giving them a chance to stretch their

legs. That's what they're really going

for. And I mean, you look at Wonder

Dean, he briefs Friday and he briefs today on Tuesday.

So you know that right there is a sign that things are quite,

quite a bit different. Dan and Bourbon, I think it was

really important for him to get that in.

I know they had some, they had some shipping problems coming

over here. They got delayed in Anchorage

and just, you know, that kind of just lengthen the trip and it

seems like the first couple days it seems like he's had a little

bit more of a problem adjusting than, you know, wonder Dean did

when he first got here. Now Wonder Dean is it was

hilarious. I was actually thinking this as

they were doing the warm ups in the shoot.

Wonder Dean's been the one leading out him and TO Elvis

kind of you know, the guy who knows the place showing them

around. I mean, wonder Dean was bouncing

around out there and Dan and bourbon.

I, I, I think the shipping maybe is going to take a little bit

out of him. I'm not feeling as good about

him since I've seen him here as I did, you know, before he got

here. And so I, I think the breeze was

definitely important today. And he's going to be interesting

to watch the next couple days and see if the breeze maybe he's

going to have settled him down a little bit.

That's what that's what I'm going to be looking for for him

the next couple days. See if he's maybe acting a

little bit better in the in the next several days coming out of

that breeze. Now we're going to throw to Sean

with some of the Japanese connections.

Continuing on with Blood Horse at the Derby, I'm joined by Kate

Hunter, the liaison for the Japanese horses here at

Churchill Downs after Wonder Dean and Dan and Bourbon worked

out on the racetrack this morning.

Kate, we're used to now seeing the Japanese horses for a couple

years in the Derby. We know that they're not

necessarily going to work the fastest of times.

What is the general goal for them when they're going out to

Breeze? Well, I would say sometimes

maybe using the term breeze on this is maybe the wrong

terminology. Like I've been trying to

contemplate it over the past couple years and how best to

like describe it because typically totally enough.

I think that a little more than a week out, like last week is

when they kind of put in their hardest works where they really

kind of intend to get the fitness at the right level and,

and things like that. Probably not too dissimilar to

what the Americans, I'm guessing, probably do.

I'm not going to assume anyone's training regimen, but I think

that, you know, when they come here, they're not looking to,

you know, reinvent the wheel. They're not looking to, you

know, revolutionize the horse from nothing to, oh, now I'm a

contender. It's just, you know, making sure

those screws are tight, making sure everything's good, making

sure they move well. And so they're not necessarily

looking for speed to sharpen them up.

They're just looking for just enough to kind of wake them up,

let them know it's race time and make sure everything's where it

needs to be. And we saw Wonder Dean

officially, you know, on the work tab report both on Friday

and then again today. Kind of that time period's

pretty short compared to American horses, but it seems

like he it was more, as you said, not really a breeze, just

kind of more of a getting him out there kind of thing.

Yeah, it'd be like faster than a 2 minute lick, but you know,

slower than your typical breeze, like kind of in that Gray area

there. That, and I'm sure Americans

love to try and figure out. Well, how has we talked about

Wonder Dean a couple of times on this show with some of his

connections over the last few days?

Now that Dan and Bourbons been here for a couple of days, how

has he got settled in out there on the racetrack and how did he

move this morning? He's been moving in.

He's been settling well. I think there were there was a

couple of days where he's he's kind of like, you know, made a

little bit of a bolt out out left, right and center.

And some people said it was Wonder Dean.

And I have to say, Takuya is kind of offended that you would

think. That that was him.

He he had nothing to do with that his.

Horse. I was not one of the people

saying that, so I'm OK. Takuya his.

His horse is fine. His horse knows the rules.

No, but the, the training in Japan is so much different and

like they're, they're closed off courses and everything's kind of

one way. So you're not having a lot of

cross traffic. So even though he's an American

horse, he was, you know, bought as the yearling.

So all he knows is Japan. So it's kind of like me, you

come over here and you're like, oh wow, I actually don't know

what I'm doing. But he did moved a lot better

today. He's kind of gotten it figured

out. And they were very happy with

this brief. I noticed when I was out there

this morning watching them do their warmups in the shoot, you

know, wonder Dean's been kind of the leader of both him, Dan and

Bourbon and TO Elvis when they're going out onto the track

and the one kind of in front of them is he is it kind of help

that he's been here a little bit to keep the other horses settled

potentially? Like does that have?

Does that play in at all to keeping?

I'm settled seeing Wonder Dean going out there confident in

front of them. Well, I think same kind of

mentality. They don't have pony culture in

Japan, so they haven't really broken into that mentality yet.

But wonder Dean has been here for so long, has been going out

with Mike Crowder every day. So he's been a very good lead

pony slash racehorse. So it's definitely that.

Being able to follow someone and being able to see how it goes,

it absolutely helps. He's.

Good animals, so. He's got a good second career

option if he wants to come back to the States when he's done

racing. If he's not going off to the

stallion barn, I'm. Sure, Mike would love to have

him. Yeah, well, now that we're

getting into these final days, it's been out Tuesday before the

Kentucky Derby. What would be the plan for them

over these next couple days to finish getting them acclimated

and get them ready for Saturday? Well, typically after a breeze,

they're Japanese breeze, they would either take the day off

the following day or they would go to or they just go out for

like there's a little light, light gallop Cantor basically.

So we've got, you're going to have a bit of both the Taki and

Nagi horses will be staying in to hand walk and Dan and Bourbon

will be going out tomorrow. And then TO Elvis, he's out here

as well. He's running in the Churchill

Downs Stakes on the undercard. A very tough race, but how has

he kind of handled everything since he's been here?

He seems to be settling in very well.

He's he's size wise and everything else, it kind of fits

right in. So Mr. Tucky and I just had a

lot of luck here. He brought over TO Sandoni for

the Ali Sheba 2 years ago and a thriller of a second.

Yeah. So it was a great way to start

that Derby weekend. So hopefully Elvis can do one

better. I keep wanting to call TO Elvis,

like TO St. Elvis because of TO Sandoni.

I keep thinking that there's an extra word in there because.

I called him TO password for like 3 days so it it does get

confusing. Yes, all those TO's you're in

the Japanese races and we got one back here for the weekend,

this weekend. Well, Kate, best of luck to you

and the team. Just how is the excitement level

among the team right now? And then also back in Japan for

the Derby? I'm sure in Japan there's

there's lots of excitement because I mean, the Kentucky

Derby, while it might not necessarily have the same kind

of, you know, attraction that it does in the United States, I

think, you know, since forever Young's performance here, you

know, it's it's definitely high on the radar.

And so I'm hoping for some good turnover.

But I think that's As for the lads here, you know, it's, it's

I don't know if excitement's the right word.

It's like getting down and dirty and serious like you.

Know it's. Buckling down the hatches,

getting ready for what we know is going to be a long day and

hope, but hopefully that'll end on a high note.

Yes. Well, we hope to see a good

performance from both runners here this weekend.

And TO Elvis and the Churchill Downs Stakes, Kate, thank you so

much for taking the time with us all throughout Derby season here

in the last couple of weeks. And best of luck to Team Japan.

Thank. You.

All right. Thanks to all the connections

over there. Certainly I love all the the

cultures colliding here at Churchill Downs.

Speaking of cultures colliding, Todd Pletcher, the silver fox

himself, was nice enough to pause and give us a few minutes.

We actually taped this yesterday, was after Renegade

had hit the track for. Was it the first time, second

time that. He That would have been the

second. Time, second time, he had been

out on the track. We wanted to pick Todd's braid

about him, obviously the rail draw, all those things.

You'll hear about that for sure in a moment.

Anything else stand out to you? Yeah, well, at the end of the

interview we talked to him a little bit about Dewayne Lucas.

Obviously Todd Pletcher was a one of the many assistants under

D Wayne that has come out and had great success on his own.

Todd has started more horses in the Kentucky Derby than anyone

else after passing Lucas's record, so it's nice to hear his

thoughts on that. But Renegade, from Todd's

perspective, it seems like Renegade has really kind of

settled in here in his first couple of days.

He was pretty good to me this morning on the racetrack and

it's, you know, it's interesting that we've had the favorite, at

least the morning line favorite cuz I know Forte ended up

scratching, but we've had the morning line favorite three of

the last four years be coming out of the Todd Pletcher barn

being a micro pulley horse. So just obviously there was the

scratch of Forte and that they had Grande last year, he

scratched as well. We'll see him in Jelly shoot by

this week. Yes, we will and but just a

great job by the whole team there.

I mean, when was the last time you can really think of the same

trainer owner combo having a favorite morning line favorite

in the dirt be three of four years?

It's remarkable. And they're, yeah, whatever

they're doing there is working for sure, and they should keep

going. And I mean, that goes, that's

not just a compliment to Todd's team, but that goes all the way

back to, you know, the bloodstock team behind us taking

these horses out at the sale as well.

And so, yeah, just props to them coming back here again with the

favorite. They did draw the rail, though,

But we'll hear. We'll hear what Todd thinks

about that position. Here's Todd Pletcher yesterday

at the Barnes with us right Blood horse at Kentucky Derby

152 alongside trader Todd Pletcher, Renegade draws the one

hole. I know how Mike Ropoli feels

about it because I saw it on Twitter.

How do you feel about the one hole here for Renegade?

Well, it's the one we got, so we're going to make the best of

it. That's all we can.

The only way to look at it. And I think this is the third

year what in the last third time in the last six years, maybe

we've drawn the one hole. So you know, two of those times

I read, you know, was a board. So I'm hoping maybe a little

experience in there. He's he's maybe got some up his

sleeve now. He seems like the kind of horse

that would be able to work out a trip from there.

He obviously came from behind in the Arkansas Derby, working his

way through that field. Does that give you added

confidence that he can figure it out?

I think so, you know, I mean, the brake's still important.

He needs to step away from there and get some position.

But you know, it's it's it's maybe not as critical as if you

were a horse that had to be close to the pace or on the

lead. So, you know, most likely from

whatever post he was coming with from, he was going to, you know,

have a lot of horses in front of him.

He's going to have to maneuver his way through.

In in recent years of the Kentucky Derby, many shippers

come up in the in the preceding weeks.

Obviously you've chosen to trade him at Palm Beach towns.

Anything go into that decision other than he just likes being

down there? He's just doing so well.

You know, we felt like we wouldn't wanted to kind of keep

everyone together and and yeah, it was it was a tough call.

Ultimately, looking at the 10 day forecast, I keep saying,

man, it looks so nice here in Florida and you know, it looks

like potential rain kind of on what would be the work days.

And so, you know, we, we, we kept the flexible in case, you

know, the weather changed in either place and we needed to

make a move. We just felt like, you know, we

wouldn't mess with what was working.

He'd trained at Palm Beach Downs and shipped to Tampa to win the

Sam Davis and he'd trained at Palm Beach Downs and shipped

Arkansas to win, you know, the, the Derby there.

So we just figured we'd stick with what's working.

I saw a quote from you saying it's it's nice.

This is the first weekend right before the Derby in many years.

I haven't had to lose sleep over the weather.

Did you get a good, good rest in that night afterward?

You know, I went to bed with with a, you know, checking the

weather and all clear there. And, you know, I said, well, you

know, if I was in Louisville, it'd be looked like 50% chance

of rain. I'd be sweating that out.

So yeah, it was kind of nice to not have to worry about that for

a change. Talk, talk I read before the

race. Do you think you'll give him any

kind of instructions here? Or is a board just hey, twenty

horses were on the inside, go figure it out.

Yeah, more or less. I mean, you know, we'll maybe

talk about how we see the race unfolding a little bit and who's

going to do what or what we anticipate they might do.

But, you know, it's not going to be a lot of instructions on

exactly what he needs to do. He's going to have to, you know,

use his instincts when the gate opens.

Last year, once Grande scratched, it was the first time

in many years that you did not have a horse in the Kentucky

Derby. Was it tough to be sitting on

the sidelines last year? And how nice is it to be back in

the race this year? Yeah, it was 21 years down the

tubes, you know it. Was counting.

No, it was, yeah, we had a, you know, kind of a remarkable run

to be represented that many years in a row.

And it Yeah, I was disappointed. I mean, mainly I was

disappointed for Ripoli and his team and you know, just, you

know, having to having to scratch the day before the race.

But like I said, it wasn't meant to be.

Hopefully, maybe this year will be.

And this is going to be the first Derby in a long time

without trainer Dwayne Lucas here.

What are the emotions on that and how weird is it kind of not

having him here for this event? Yeah, just so, you know, coming

back, it just said, you know, it's kind of sad coming back

and, you know, him not being here and, you know, he's, he's

I, I feel like he's so responsible for, for, you know,

maybe increasing the popularity of the Derby and the Triple

Crown events and the Breeders Cup.

You know, he just, he identified very early on that these were

the events that that everyone wants to be a part of.

And he emphasized that as part of his program.

And yeah, it's it's kind of not the same without him here.

If you're in the winner's circle of Renegade, will you be

thinking of the coach while you're in there?

Yeah, I might give him a shout out.

Well, Todd, we appreciate it very much.

All the best. OK.

Thanks guys. All right, cool spot here Jaime

Torres, a jockey agent Liz Morris with us here odd blood

horse at Derby 152 Luria Beauchamp Collins hanging out

with you. Well, thanks for thanks for

hanging out. How's how's the week going back

here at the Kentucky Derby? It's.

Been pretty cool. I love, I love the excitement.

I love like, you know, everybody's here trying to watch

The Who is the winner? And yeah, I think I'm, I'm, I'm,

I'm enjoying it. Great.

Oh, that's awesome. How about you Liz?

How are you enjoying this week? Good.

I'm taking it all in and just appreciative to be here.

You know the Pit Oak stud people have these nice hats and Sean's

standing next to you very jealous of these brand new.

Hats, we've already had the conversation OK, all right, I

just. Wanted to make sure.

I'm just going to tell you he may, he may turn this off and

go, you know what, actually, I need a hat or two, you know,

that sort of thing. So just a heads up that that

might happen to you. Incredible though.

How has he been this week? How's it been on him in the

mornings? Very good.

I mean, he's very happy. He's on, on, on his toe after

the work. He just came back like, like

nothing very fresh. And yeah, we are very excited

about that. You mentioned that work there,

you got a chance to be on him. How is he?

You obviously wrote him as a 2 year old as well.

How have you felt him improve from his two year old season up

until now going into the Derby? Oh, he's been always been like

very professional, very classy. I would say like just he's more

fitter, you know more. He knows his job right now, so

yeah, I would say that. Liz, when Jaime comes to you in

the summer and he tells you I'm writing this 2 year old, he

could be our next little sovereignty.

Are you like, okay, temper your expectations a little bit or did

you believe him? I didn't cuz I rode races.

So when a rider tells you that you take you, you you definitely

take notice of that. So we made sure we were there

for every one of his works that Riley needed us there for.

Yeah, he got priority there. You.

Go How did this relationship between you 2 come to be?

How did you guys end up kind of teaming up together?

Joe Sharp. Joe Sharp and Jose Ortiz.

Yeah, they called Jose called me up and Joe called me up and they

said, hey, we got a writer that we want you to take on, Are you

interested? And I thought about it, and I

said, yeah, absolutely. So that's how we hooked up was

between Joe and Jose, right? Yeah, definitely, for sure.

When you first looked at, you know, maybe replays of Jaime or

something before you took him on, what was it that caught your

eye where you're like, all right, this is a pretty good

rider. I should I should pay attention

to him. Well, I had been watching Jaime

since he came to Kentucky and I also watched him in, actually

watched him in New York. That's the first time I started

really paying attention to him. And when he was in Kentucky, he

had the bug, obviously when he came here at 1st.

And I thought he sat a horse really well and he looked like

he had really good hands on a horse because he had position in

a horse, you wouldn't fight him. He looked like he had kind

hands, and I'd done my research on them and I had good

information from other agents that told me about them.

So. And then when we got to work

together, then we got to know each other a lot better.

So there's so much more to Jaime than what I got to see early on.

Yeah. I mean, when you paired with

Liz, you guys obviously had the success with Seize the Gray in

the Preakness a couple years ago.

Just how have you kind of how how is Liz kind of helped you to

build your writing skills in addition to obviously the

business? I would say in everything, yeah,

not only on finding the right horse, but the communication

with the trainers. And she's the hardest worker

I've ever met in the in the backside so.

You know, you mentioned Seize the Gray and winning the

Preakness. Is that a confidence booster for

a jockey to win a grade one, win one of these classic races?

Or do you feel like had if that weren't part of your past, I'm

glad it is. But if it weren't that, you

know, hey, it's incredible. It's a Derby.

I've ridden races before. Or is the Preakness like a big

confidence boost for a jockey? Yeah, it is.

It is for sure. But I mean, I've been an athlete

my whole, my whole career. So having that pressure of being

in a big stage, I think I, I know it since I'm a little kid

and yeah, it's, it's a big deal. But I feel very confident on on

myself. Liz, for those who are turning

in right now around Derby time, maybe they don't watch horse

racing all the time. How big is winning a race like

the Preakness to then increasing Jaime's business going forward?

Huge. I mean, it's a confidence

builder for everybody. You know, like when you're

approaching a bar and they know your jocks want a grade one, it

definitely gives you confidence. You know, it gives you

confidence in selling him to someone.

He's he's won his first Grade 1. He just lost his bug not too

long ago. Not many people do that.

You know, some people work their whole career just to win one

grade one. So, yeah, yeah.

If they get there with one, even.

Yeah. But, Liz, exactly.

An interesting spot, frankly, for you as a female jockey

agent. Frankly, we don't have too many

of them in the sport. You're trying to become the

first female jockey agent to win the Kentucky Derby.

When I say that out loud, what comes to mind?

It's weird because I just get up and I go to work and I do the

work and I don't really think of the gender thing when I'm

working. I just do my job and I love my

job and I'm passionate about what I do and I put a lot of

hours into it. So I don't think of that.

But when you break it down to saying the first female agent to

win the Derby, I want to do that for history, for other women who

look at that and say, hey, I might be able to have the

opportunity to do this too. So if I can pave the way for

someone else, then yeah, that would be amazing.

Absolutely. When you hear Jaime say, by the

way, and I don't want to gloss over this, you're the hardest

working person he knows. What's that?

What's that mean to you? It means a lot because we don't

always get to tell each other those things.

So when you do hear it, it's just like.

I get it, He thinks I'm doing a good job.

Yeah, right. You know what I mean?

You know what I mean? Because I do.

I like literally have dedicated my entire life to this game and

to be where I'm at today from the ground up, so.

We got, we got, we got to spend time like living together in the

same house in, in Oakland. And I could see her, man, from

daylight to to the night. She was on the phone in the

computer trying to find the right horse.

So yeah, she really is. And a lot of times you get told

no and you just have to keep going back the next day and or

find a different way or ask for a different horse.

And it's timing sometimes. So you have to pay attention to

all those things. How difficult is it when you're

first getting started as a jockeys agent to, you know, get

trainers to listen to you, to be able to convince them that they

should ride your riders? How difficult is kind of that

initial entry phase? I think it's funny that you say

that because I was a jockey before I was a jockey agent, So

I already kind of had the idea of like the perspective of

already talking to trainers and owners every day, plus the fact

that I rode races. So I see things in races and I

understand the jockeys perspective, which I think is a

huge asset because not everybody can watch a race and see and

knows what it feels like to be in the irons.

That's like something that you have to do to really get it.

But I transitioned really easily and when I was a jockey, I

already knew I was going to be a jock agent because one of

actually Jaime knows Tiki Chapter Marquez, he used to

always go, Lizzie, when are you going to retire from being a

jockey and just be my jock agent?

Just you need to be a jock agent.

You're going to be a great jock agent because I was always my

own best agent as a jockey. So it just, it just meant made

sense for me, you know? Yeah.

Well, you mentioned that riders communication skills and how

beneficial that is. When I talked to Riley Mott the

other day, Jaime, he was talking about how he really values the

input that you give on a horse so that you're really good at

telling him things he needs to know about the horse from the

race. What is it that you that you

feel out there that has then helped you to kind of tell the

trainers this is what we need to do going forward?

Is definitely. Tell them everything you, you,

you feel from the horse. Horses can't talk, but they the

way they feel is like the way like they talk to you and you

just have to go back and tell them exactly how you felt.

That's all I do. And Brittany trucks on my

girlfriend. She she is very good on giving

feedbacks and I've been hearing her like the way she talks to

her trainers and the way she like explains everything.

And I think I have learned from her a lot.

Riley's first Derby? Take it out.

Yeah, she's right here. So listening to that so.

Riley's. 1st Is he doing a good job in the interview here,

Brittany? Yeah, much better.

Much better. I think he's gotten a lot more

confident with his interviews and he watches all of them back.

Like you'd be surprised how much he's.

Like jockey decided to watch everything back.

Yeah. Watches and before, like when

he'd watch it back, he would, he would turn it off and be like,

Oh my gosh, I don't, I don't like what to hear myself.

And now he's he's much better. Well, good.

Well, you look good at least. How about that?

But you're working with Riley Mod, Obviously this year I've

been impressed with how his demeanor throughout this week.

His first Derby, he's acting like it's his 10th Derby,

frankly. Very, very calm demeanor.

What's it like working with Riley?

He's he's the best. I really like it.

I feel very lucky, very, very lucky to be with the team.

Yeah, same question to you, obviously.

Yeah, working with Riley. Riley is just he's an amazing

horseman. He's class.

He always does what's best for the horse.

You know, he's he's classy in all of his business and he's

been exceptionally, exceptionally kind to us.

And we're very grateful and that and we're grateful to be a part

of the pin out team too, because Dana and Ben and rest in peace,

Jim. We still believe he's with us,

but we have a lot of gratitude for the whole team.

Hi, May. You and Brittany were telling me

a story the other day. Two years ago when you rode

Seized the Gray here on Pat Day Mile to win the Pat Day Mile on

Kentucky Derby day. That was your first time being

here for the Derby. You got to walk with the Bill

Mott team with Resilience over to the front side.

And then last year you were telling me you were really.

I'm excited for Joe Ramos, for Keith Asmussen, riding in their

first Kentucky Derbies and cheering them on.

What is it like now to be here, about to ride in your first

Kentucky Derby a few days from now?

It's a dream, it's a dream come true.

And like, like I said, doing it with with the team, with Riley,

it's makes it more more special. And yeah, I always when I walk

to to his barn reminds me a lot of Wayne because they they're

right, right to each other. They're barns and makes me, you

know how a really good feeling. How much did you learn from Mr.

Lucas as you, because he rode seized the Gray for him to win

the Preakness? How much did he really teach

you? How dedicated he is to the to

the business like he was all in in this and as you can see, till

the last day he was getting on his pony, living his life as a

as a trainer. He loves it and I I don't forget

his his words. He gave me one time in the in

the in the office saying like, I'm going to make you get to

where you never imagined you you could you could make and the

where I'm at right now. Like Wayne was somebody that he

spent so much time on his job that he could almost like know

what was going to happen in the future.

You know, he, he was very wise. And I got emotional from that.

That was awesome. Liz Obviously one of the, the,

the, the hallmarks, especially later in his career of Wayne

Lucas was that coach really did come out.

He was willing to take on younger, less experienced riders

if he thought they were capable, right?

And that, as a jocks agent, I'm sure was a huge plus for you.

Yeah, oh, no, it it's definitely.

But it was also tough. Wayne didn't give you anything.

He made you work for and earn it.

He made us work and earn for sees the Gray every minute of.

That. Even up to the Pat Day Mile, he

was like, well, I don't know. I think I'm gonna like, now

listen, Wayne, I had to like, you know what I mean?

I'd be like, you can't do that to us, Wayne, You know what I

mean? And I had to like kind of give

him a little bit of his own medicine that he would give me.

And then it it just all worked out and we're grateful.

For that, Wayne's changed, yeah. Seriously.

Yeah, We worked the whole barn up to that point to make sure we

rose. He's the Gray in the fat day

mile. It was worth it.

It was worth it. But he's a great mentor, coach,

help coach. So I've I did business with

Wayne before Jaime and I like got together and coach was

always the guy that I would sit in his office and if I was

having a bad day, I'd leave there feeling like I can

accomplish anything. He always ingrained that in me.

He always says, man, you're a good agent, you're a good agent.

You're going to be you're going to be on the map like he did

behind me. You know, he's like he's like,

and he gives you that encouragement, that fight that

to keep going because sometimes this job is hard.

It's not. This sport can, yeah, it can get

tough for sure. Absolutely.

A few years ago in 2020, you had Gabe Saez and he ran third in

the Derby with Mr. Big News. What was that experience like

seeing him start to make the run, giving you maybe a maybe a

little taste of what it might feel like once once Hymie runs

past the first two horses and ends up getting that Derby win?

That's really funny cuz like, it was the most eeriest Derby ever

because it was. I was here it was.

Wild. So like everything was like we

were all flying solo. The grandstands were quiet and I

remember like, I found I found my little spot to watch the

Derby, right. And it that was also a very

sentimental Derby for me because Chester Thomas Blade Racing's a

very good friend of mine and Brett Calhoun's been

exceptionally great to me my entire career as an agent here

in Kentucky. So like that was a very family,

like, you know, feeling so it's very sentimental.

But anyway, so I was there by myself and I was screaming

because my horse was a closer and we had all the we had all

the news media on Mr. Big News because his name is Mr. Big, of

course. Right, so like, and I remember

like screaming, screaming, screaming, and then like I look

over and Steve's just smiling at me laughing because he's like he

I also came from the ask me some barn.

So like for him to see someone who worked for him get to that

point too. I'm sure he found that quite,

quite humorous, you know? That was an incredible day.

Frankly, I'm glad we're I I'm hopeful we'll never do that

again. But it was it was an incredible

day. Yeah, you're totally right.

And there was a they come down. You're not used to being able to

hear the crop during the Derby and you can hear the crop during

the Derby. It was just unbelievable.

Yeah. Oh my goodness, it's yeah, it

was, it was a totally breeders. Cup was the same way 'cause we

had horses. I was there too.

Yeah, you can hear the crops on those days too.

Yeah. Unbelievable stuff.

Glad we're not doing that this year.

All right, Well, Jaime, what is it that is going to make

incredible successful on Saturday?

What? What does he need to happen

during the race for you to pull out a victory?

I think he's class yeah, there is going to be a lot of people

here. I think he will handle it very

well. I don't think he's going to get

any nervous going to be just focus on, on, on him.

And whenever he comes out, he's going to have all the energies

in and he's always that can that will help me to do whatever I

want, you know. And yeah, I don't have the

experience, but I don't know. I think I get very lucky in

those days. And yeah, I feel very confident.

I'm just gonna be focused on me, on my horse, riding my horse,

and see what happened at the end.

There was a big celebration that you gave as you hit the wire

with seized the Gray in the Preakness.

Are you going to be celebrating big again?

And just make sure you don't fall off the horse too early.

Wait till after the wire if you're going to fall off.

Honestly, honestly, I always try to calm down myself.

That's what I'm trying. I if I cross the wire 1st, I'm

going to try to calm down myself and I yeah, I'm going to try to

not do anything. So.

Well, enjoy the moment and it sounds like we need to put a

camera on you down the stretch. Too.

Close. That's what I think we learned

from that story about 2020. That's funny.

No, we we have 100% confidence going into the Derby.

We love the post position. We drew hi, me and IA little

inside information. We were sitting there and

Brittany, we were all sitting there at the post position draw

and we were like, what do we want?

We won 11 and then like a few like minutes later we drew the

11 and we looked at each other. We're like, hey, you know, it's

meant to be. Five spots, yeah, that we're not

taken yet. We we asked Riley because his

two horses, Alvis and Incredible, were the last two

being pulled. How nervous were you getting

toward the end when they weren't pulling him out yet?

Or are you just were you just happy because you saw 11 was

still on the board the whole time?

Yeah. Exactly.

I wanted to get the 12. That was my favorite number and

I got right beside it so still got the 12.

Hole. Yeah.

All right. I'm going to do something I've

never done on any of these programs.

I have a friend, Rodger, who loves incredible for our

Saturday. Can you say hi, Rodger?

Hi, Roger. There we go.

That's for you, Rodger up in Indiana.

So there you go. All right though, Liz.

Hi mate. We really appreciate you

stopping by Blood Horse at the Derby.

Congratulations on on being here.

Legitimately unbelievable and all the best safe trip on

Saturday and all that. Hi mate, thanks you so much.

Thank you for having us. Of course.

Thank you Sean. Your article was great.

Everyone should read Sean's article on blood.

Wars. Yeah.

Thank you. Yeah.

I wanna say thank you to to you guys cuz from the beginning you

guys have been yeah. No, we're fans.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's very.

Well, it's very special. For us.

Hey, thank you. You're no, we appreciate it very

much. Very well.

Thank you. Yeah, no, appreciate it very

much. All right, Liz and Jaime, we

appreciate them jumping on blood horse at the I will say the

Breeders Cup. We're not the Breeders Cup at

Kentucky Derby 152. All right, thanks to Liz and

Jaime. Fascinating story.

There's always a bunch of fascinating stories, certainly

around the Kentucky Derby. So happy to be able to bring

those to you here on Blood Horse at Kentucky Derby 152.

Of course, we're presented by our friend Alex Smallwood at

Christies Bluegrass. Appreciate him hanging out with

us all week here on the program. The fascinating stories.

Jaime, of course one of those guys got into, you know, into

the jockey world later in life. Frankly, most of these guys out

here, you know, we talked with different jockeys who certainly

we know their teen years were formative in their jockey time.

Jaime get into it his mid 20s, frankly, always one of those

cool stories. I love and I got to sit down

with him a couple years ago after he and sees the Gray one,

the Preakness. And we actually did a step by

step of what he was thinking and what the horse was doing during

the Preakness. Fascinating to get to sit down

with him because how he thinks about the job, how he goes about

it. I love bit great guy, but the

Liz story, I think it's a pretty fascinating angle.

Yeah, I mean, you look at all the attention that Sheree Devoe

is gonna get this week for being trying to become the first

female trainer to win the Kentucky Derby, and rightly, by

the way. Yes, definitely.

But the jockeys agents a lot of times don't get the spotlights

back here. And that's a hard, hard job to

have in general. And, you know, it's a job.

You don't see many women in that job.

It's also fair. And so for her to have to

overcome that on top of, you know, just the difficulty of the

job in general to try to, you know, get her riders mounts and

get the business and everything like that.

It's a lot of hard work that she's put in over the years.

And trying to become the first female jockey agent to win the

Kentucky Derby is that would be a pretty special thing.

And I know she's she's trying to manifest winning, winning the

Kentucky Derby here. Every time you talk to her,

she's saying, oh, we're winning the Derby, We're winning the

Derby. So sounds like they're winning

the Derby to me. It's one of my favorite things,

Shawn, to ask trainers. I always ask him in interviews

at the end, you know, when I get to do a longer form.

Do you allow yourself to dream? Do you dream of that Derby

winner's circle to a person? All of them have said, of

course. I get up at 3:30 in the morning

everyday. I get up at 4:00 everyday.

I have to dream, right? The job requires dreaming.

Those are the kinds of dreams we talk about, right?

Getting to that level of Sheree Devo, trying to become the first

female jockey. You saw Jen Antenucci a couple

years ago winning the Belmont, what it meant for her.

You saw the outpouring of support for women around horse

racing as well. It's just an absolutely great

story. Would be a cool one here as

well. Yeah, it would be very cool

here. And, you know, shout out to all

the jockeys, agents that are out there who don't necessarily get

the spotlight as much. You guys do a lot of great work.

All right, well, that wraps for the Tuesday edition.

A Blood Horse at Derby 1 of 52. If you're kicking around, by the

way, we'll be out of Blind School Restaurant tonight for

the Blood Horse Derby seminar. Barry Spears of me are your

handicappers for the evening. If you're not here in

Louisville, don't worry, we've got you covered.

Wherever you're watching this right now, you'll be able to

watch that live. So go check us out there at

those spots as well. Certainly the YouTube page going

to be probably the easiest page for that for Sean.

I'm Louis. Thanks for hanging out with us

here at Blood Horse at Kentucky Derby 152.

The Blood Horse is dedicated to the improvement of thoroughbred

breeding and racing for over 100 years.

Don't forget to like, subscribe and save Blood Horse Monday on

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and insights, visit us at bloodhorse.com.

Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.