BloodHorse at Kentucky Derby 152 | Scratches in Derby, Oaks

Welcome into the final edition of Blood Horse at Kentucky 1152.

Easy for me to say I should have that down after six, I know.

So it's it's what are you doing? It's been 6 episodes, Kentucky

Derby 1. You know what's happening.

It's a busy day out here, and your bully is a little

discombobulated. Sean Collins over here.

My name's Louie Rebeau. Welcome into our final edition.

As I just said, were presented by Alex Mullin with the

Christie's Bluegrass team. You'll hear from him in a few

minutes. You'll also hear from Mayor

Greenberg, the connections around Ocelli, of course, trader

Whit Beckman. So lots to get into in this

episode, Sean. This is the day, of course, on

Thursday where many of the final sort of examinations of horses

happen. And boy, we got a big 1 today.

Yeah, we got a big one today. Full effort has scratched from

the Kentucky Derby. I believe it was a.

Left hind crack is the Derby heard Yes.

Yeah. So he is going to be removed

from the Kentucky Derby consideration out there in post

position #20 that doesn't mean Ocelli is going to be drawing

into the Kentucky Derby field out there now in post position

#20 And so yeah, we had the scratch yesterday, Silent

Tactic. We had full effort today.

We still have two horses on the AE list waiting to get in if

there aren't any more between Robusta and Corona de Oro play.

Unfortunate for full effort. I know we've had, we had the

connections on in the past. Yeah, unfortunate for them.

But also, you know, like I said yesterday on the show when we

had Silent tactics, Scratch, you have one very disappointed camp,

but you have one very, very happy camp right now, and that's

the camp of Voselli. And so, yeah, it's breaking news

here this morning. We're still trying to figure out

exactly what's going on as far as what this means for the

Derby. He's was going to be a deep

closer. So it's not going to have any

impact on the peace scenario. Ocelli's not the kind of horse

that's going to be up on the peace scenario, I don't think.

And so it's not going to have much of an impact from that

perspective. But this does mean that he will.

Yesterday after yesterday, Scratch, he wasn't going to be

in post 19. So this just means that Great

White and Ocelli are going to be in the outside 2 post positions.

No one else's post position is going to be packed and support

further. ADO is still in post 17, the

cursed post 17. We'll see whether or not he can

get anybody inside of him to drop out of the race.

Only you, buddy. I know you're the only one

worried about that. You know, these these days, it's

never easy to hear. And you're right.

It's such an odd juxtaposition of of having to, you know, talk

to ownership around a horse that's not going to be able to

run on this Saturday when this is one of the grand goals of the

sport is to get to this race, run in this race.

But then you get, you know, a guy like Whit Beckman grew up

here in Louisville, you know, third straight Derby now.

I mean, for a guy in a young part of his career, it's a

moment of of almost certainly validation that, you know, this

is a horse that we thought could get here.

He is Ocelli in the field. Yeah, and this is a horse that

he knew that if he could get in, he was going to enter.

He has been wildly consistent. Yeah, I'll save it for the for

the interview later. What he told me a few weeks ago

right after the wooden memorial as far as whether or not Ocelli

would run if he made it in. And he was a long ways out from

making it in the field at that point.

And they were considering thinking about if he didn't make

it into this race, thinking about the Preakness.

But he's still a maiden, so he has plenty of options.

They could have found a nice maiden race for him.

Sure. Hey, you only got one shot at

the Kentucky Derby. And so they're going to go ahead

and take it. And Whit Beckman, he's a young

trainer, he's a former assistant to Todd Pletcher, to Chad Brown,

to some of those big names. He knows how to train a horse.

And now he's three years into having a Kentucky Derby horse.

We just talked to Todd Pletcher on the show a couple days ago,

asked him about losing his 21 year streak of having a horse in

the Kentucky Derby. I mean, wit's one of those guys

he's now thanks getting in this year.

He's starting to, you know, be one of those guys we're going to

start seeing on the Derby scene every single year.

And probably pretty soon here, I'd think he's going to start

getting one of these top, top favorite horses because

obviously three horses in the Kentucky Derby three years in a

row, that's got to be great for. Business he's a neck away from

have that happening in the wood Memorial with Ocelli Anyway,

you'll hear about all the connections with him for sure as

we roll along in the episode. Full effort.

The story today as far as the Derby scratches will not be

running in this year's edition of of the Run for the Roses.

He's out. Corbin Blumberg was on with us

earlier in this series talking about the Starlight operation

and all the good things over there.

Disappointing day for sure. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be a

disappointment no matter what. Now, luckily for the Starlight

team, they still have witness test in the Kentucky Derby, so

they do still have that. But, you know, full effort.

He seems like a horse that even though he hadn't run on dirt

before, we were very interested to see what he was going to

bring out here. So obviously very disappointing

from for for the team there. And we'll hear a little bit more

about full Effort scratch from Corbin right now here with

Corbin Blumberg of Starlight Racing.

Some unfortunate news today that full Effort has had to scratch

out of the Kentucky Derby. Corbin, First off, just kind of

tell us what's going on with him.

Yeah, look, he he has a little issue left hand that Brad

identified and just in for the best interest of the horse, just

not going to run. He's a really, really nice horse

and you know it's not going to happen on Saturday, but just

decided was it was the best thing not to not to take part.

So something small, something minor that we'll definitely be

able to see him back in the future.

Just a case of bad timing here. Yeah, he's not, you know, we're

not going to be, you know, in the rest of the Triple Crown or

anything like that, probably giving some time off.

But you know, as everyone seen this week, he's a beautiful

horse and and I think he's only going to mature into a really,

really nice horse in the fall and then next year.

So we'll give him all the time and and let him come back.

We've had you on Blood Horse Monday after he won the Jeff

Ruby we had you on earlier in the week after his final

workout. Just kind of take us through the

emotions of being at this point and kind of what the team is

feeling. Yeah, it's disappointing.

It's not the end of the world, but everyone, this is a big deal

and everyone dreams about having a horse in the Derby and in our

color. So, you know, it's obviously

really disappointing. But you know, the horse is fine.

He's going to be fine. You know, disappointed for our

partners, but we have litmus test in.

So, you know, we're we're we still have a shot at it.

Yeah, I think this horse was doing great and and was training

really well and we thought he was going to run a big race.

So it's it's disappointing, but we'll be back.

Yeah, and always put the horse first, right?

Yeah, exactly that. It was a really easy decision

and you know, I think it just comes down to taking care of

him. And as you mentioned, you guys

still have Litmus test out there.

So you still have the Derby excitement to look forward to

and gearing up for that. Yeah, exactly.

And we've got Cornucopian imagination, the Churchill

Downs, Greenwich Village and the American turf, you know, got

plenty of action. So it's going to be a great

weekend. The weather's awesome.

And and you know, it's a, it's a set back, but lots to look

forward to. Yeah, well, thank you for taking

the time with us here, Corbin, and all throughout this Derby

trail leading up to it. I know disappointing the full

effort will not be there this weekend, but best of luck to you

and the team with all the horses that are running this.

Weekend. Thanks so much, John.

Appreciate it. A horse scratches out means

another horse gets in full effort.

Scratch from the Derby means that O'selly draws in the maiden

third in the Wood Memorial gets in for trainer Witt.

Beckman makes it his third in a row.

Sean, you and I talked with him just a few moments ago.

We go. Let's just go straight over

there. Yeah.

To the Whit Beckman barn. And here's his immediate

reaction after getting the news. All right, Blood horse at

Kentucky Derby 152 alongside Whit Beckman.

Why not? Sean Collins?

My name is Louis Rebeau. Ocelli is now drawn into the

field. I saw you a couple of days ago,

was off, you know, just a conversation here back at the

barn. And you just said, hey, we're

entering. We're staying in.

We're doing that. And here we are.

Crazy world. That's qualifying for the Derby

thing. Yeah, it's an old Chinese

proverb. Maybe, maybe not.

That's where we were, you know, maybe, maybe not.

We're in a position to, you know, possibly get in.

So we prepared like we, you know, could.

There was plenty of races, you know, to fit the scheduling

otherwise. And like, I got a happy like

horses trained and fantastic. You know, he's done enough to

get here. So like I said, he is still a

maiden, but not a reflection of his ability, just a reflection

of the circumstances. He is, as you mentioned, still

just a maiden, but he ran a pretty good race in the Wood

Memorial. He was third, just barely beaten

for that second place spot. What did you take from that

performance and what will he need on Saturday to be

successful from the outside? I think we've just seen a marked

improvement, the horse just missing things that, you know,

we work one thing out, we kind of see another, you know, kind

of quirk within the, you know, the personality.

Especially late in his races, he's had a lot of wide trips.

That's one thing about the horse.

He's never really got what I would call a good trip.

So with that, we just got to kind of like, you know, kind of

move into this. Obviously Joe Ramos has ridden

him a few times, so he's learned the horse, you know, from the 20

hole. It's going to be tough to work

it out. But like I said, Derby's a trip

race and you know, if you can get some sort of golden trip

around there, I mean, nothing's impossible if you're in the

gate. Joe been in the race before.

He'll keep them out here. Yeah.

OK. Joe Ramos, there you go.

Jockey aside, 2O silly who start here, you and I.

The other day you were saying what are the reasons you really

wanted to stay on the Derby list?

You feel like he's really working well.

He really likes the track here. Yeah, he's trained extremely

well here, except from 2 year old.

He ran his first racer because the stack made a special field,

ran very well. Since I brought him back here,

he's just been training lights out.

I mean all of his works have been extremely nice, very good

gallop outs. He said he's happy he's in the

tub. He's, you know, physically looks

just as good as he could. So like I said, why not?

When I talked to you back in, back at the beginning of the

month here in April, and I asked you if he could managed to get

in, I think he was like 33rd on the point board or something at

that point. And I asked you if you managed

to get in, would you run him in the Derby?

And you, you responded to me, is the Pope Catholic?

What gave you the confidence that if he were to make it in,

that this was a race, that you could be successful with him

then? I said he's just, he's a

talented 3 year old cult. He's an improving cult.

Like you know, a lot of changes, you know, for three-year olds

that January 1st as we get later into the season.

So with all of them, they're all sitting on something big like

this is a talented field and they'll all come back to do

great things. And some of them are going to do

it on Saturday and, you know, some might take a little more

time, but you got to be in there to see.

I love that answer Wit because we've had this discussion

several times. We sat down with the late Wade

Lucas right before the Preakness last year and I asked why he was

entering American Promise in the Preakness and he looked at me

like I had 7 heads and he said Louis, he's my best 3 year old.

That seems to be kind of your approach as well.

I mean, I'm not going to say I don't take a lot of what I've

done. I mean, at the end of the day,

he's done the same thing, Right? Exactly.

Would he have not done it? So yeah, absolutely.

He said he was, you know, he was just like, you know, just a

hollow, like the greatest guy that was ever out here doing

this. And like you said, if you watch

his, his stats in the way he didn't think he took shots, the

guy was not afraid to take shots.

And you know, like I said, we can always take the conservative

approach and we can do the things to, you know, kind of

just do the the proper progression of a horse.

But at the end of the day, when you got an ownership group,

that's his game and you got a horse that's ready for it.

Let's have some fun. You're a Louisville guy.

This is now going to be your third consecutive Kentucky

Derby. You're still very early in your

training career. What does this mean to you to be

in a third consecutive 1? I mean, we know we started the

years what we were targeting, you know, So like I say, I wake

up in the morning every day thinking about like we got the

babies in. Now we're kind of looking at all

of them through that lens. And now that we're here, we know

what we were. We were on point with 1.

So like I said, it's yeah, it's a dream every day.

I'll show you something. That's the screen saver on my

phone right there. So what's that?

Yeah. Show that to the camera there.

If it's, I don't know. I don't.

Know if you can zoom? That one I'll try to zoom in if

I can't, yeah. So it's, yeah, like I said, just

it's, it's the goal. It's what we're going to keep

on, you know, going after every year and like have the

opportunity to do it. We're going to take it.

You have the, you have that picture on your phone and, and

something we, you know, when we talk to trainers, I always ask

them, do you allow yourself to dream?

It's very clear you don't just allow yourself to dream.

You are you trying to live 1. Well, yeah, I think with any of

this, we're all living a dream to some extent.

You know, you got to kind of dream your heart forward and,

you know, and saying the only thing that can limit you is the

content of your expectations. So we make our expectations high

and like I said, we don't meet them.

We don't beat ourselves up. We just go on to the next.

Wade Beckman, Oselli draws in. Congratulations.

Third straight Derby for frankly, a guy grew up around

the corner for me. So yeah, all right, I went back

then. Appreciate you all.

Right, guys, I. Just it's just such an odd day.

And yeah, it's just the back and forth.

I apologize to the audience for that, but I really just tried to

gather my thoughts after all of the I know different things.

Yeah. I just want to say, you know,

this is a little glimpse into the life of us as, you know,

journalists or hosts in in this industry, media Bros, media

Bros. You know, we were in the middle.

You're going to hear from Alex Smallwood in just a few minutes.

We were in the middle of interviewing him when this news

broke. And then we immediately had to

run over and talk to wits. So we haven't really ourselves

gotten a whole lot of time to process.

Exactly. What is happening to my phone

right now? I know we're just continuously

checking, checking everything to make sure we're not missing

anything else. If we are, you're going to see

us cut right to us talking again about something else.

So don't worry. Don't worry.

You're going to get all the news as far as what's coming out of

the backstretch here at Churchill Downs today.

But this is a busy time for us. So, you know, a little glimpse

behind the scenes. Louie's got his radio show

coming up in just a little bit that he's got to run off to do.

I've still got multiple stories that that's right.

I've just had a list. And we wouldn't have it any

other. Way I know this.

Is what we want to do. I've just.

Had a I've had a list of stories that I've just been gradually

checking off throughout the entire week and I've still got a

couple more to go. But as you said, this is the

best week of the year for us. I wouldn't want any other way.

You know, it's busy. I do a lot of video.

I do a lot of writing stuff You we're doing the podcast, you

have your radio stuff there. I, I said to our good friend

Carlos Morales this morning, this is the time of year where

you don't have enough time in the day because there's always

something you didn't get. That's right.

You were planning to get done on this day that you didn't get

done on this day. But hey, that's Kentucky Derby

week. It's the greatest week of the

year. I love it.

I know you love it. It's just even though we're

working hard, it's we're working fun even though we're working

hard. Working fun is a great way to

put it. Another man who works fun,

apparently, allegedly, is Alex Smallwood.

I'm just kidding. He's with Christie's.

Bluegrass joined us on the program just a few minutes ago.

And here. I love this, by the way, you get

a guy like Alex and he's, you know, new partner with us on the

program, going to be hanging out with us on Blood Horse Monday as

well. And I can't think of a better

partner for us. And I think the audience will

find out exactly why. Here's Alex.

Just a just awarding. As I said, the news hadn't

broken yet when we filled this part.

So if it sounds like we're starting to show again, that's

why a little behind the scenes into everything going on here at

the Kentucky Derby, editing, editing.

Let's go ahead and talk to Alex. All right, welcome in backside,

one last episode of Blood Force at Kentucky Derby 152 alongside

Sean Collins. My name is Louis Rabo.

Thank you so much for starting yet another Derby weekday with

us and look who's with us to kick off the show is the

presenting partner of this Alex Paul with there at Christie's

Bluegrass. Alex, good morning.

Thanks so much not only for for partnering with us on this

project, but also for being a fan of the show.

We really appreciate it. Thank you all for having me on,

really appreciate it and proud to support.

Yeah. Well, Alex, before we start

talking Derby, we've everybody that's been watching has seen

your name and your face on the episodes of the last couple of

days. Just tell us a little bit about

yourself and about Christie's blue dress.

Yeah, so Lexington born and raised, did go to college right

across the river from where you're standing right now in

Hanover, IN. And then my family's been in the

horse industry for way longer than I've been alive.

My grandpa moved over in the 70s from Puerto Rico.

And then both sides have been involved, whether training, farm

management or bloodstock. And now I've gotten into it

beyond real estate with Christie's and handicapping.

I've become an owner and a breeder as well.

Just had a beautiful cyber knife Philly out of a in the mischief

mayor. That's love it.

I just Alex, just hey, this is this is what we need on this

show is more Alex Smallwood more.

You know, I dabble in the breeding, a dabble in the

ownership. I'm handicapping all the.

This is, these are, yeah. And he sent us a picture of the

Philly the other day, and she's feeling beautiful out there.

Yeah. Hopefully we'll be talking to

you maybe here three years from now.

Kentucky Oaks Day. What do you think about that?

I think you need to find a futures book and place the way

here. I'm in.

That sounds good to me, man. I'll, I'll, I'll usually play

the Futures, but with Alex, that one looked pretty good.

I'm not gonna lie to you. Yeah.

Oh, man. But Alex, we wanted to have you

out ahead of Derby and Oaks and all of that.

Just, you know, as a guy who grew up in Lexington, you know,

I always tell people Louisville's a Derby town,

Lexington's a horse racing town, and to me, that's kind of the

difference there. But as a Lexington guy, what

does the Derby mean to you? It.

Means a ton, especially this year in particular as you can

probably imagine the home bred side of things and having

success that way is very meaningful in my opinion.

And Mike and Catherine Ball have Chief Wallaby in the Derby who

was actually raised at a farm less than 5 minutes away from

where I grew up. So being able to see that dream

be realized, that it keeps the hope going and the dream alive,

and that's what we're all trying to get to in this industry.

It is incredible to hear these stories, Sean, over and over

and, and you and me being, you know, based in Kentucky here is

we meet people like Alex who say things just casually like he

lived 5 minutes from where I, you know, where I live, that

sort of thing. And now he's going to be running

on the 1st Saturday in May. It is one of the great things

you know about the Commonwealth and about the horse racing

ecosystem here, Alex. But so the Chief Wallaby story

is such a fascinating 1. Like you said, when you when you

could breed a horse yourself, you know you're in that game as

well. You know that part of the game,

I should say. And you know, just trying to

navigate through all of those twists and turns, it's amazing

to me that a horse ever gets to the starting gate alone, let

alone qualify for the Derby. It's got to be real special for

you and a team. Achieve Wall.

It is is quite an accomplishment.

Love supporting. Mike especially is one of my top

clients with Ball Homes, but seeing that and as you

mentioned, the statistics are against you.

So I know they've been involved in the game for decades and and

having them see this great success it, it brings me a lot

of joy. Well.

You mentioned earlier you are indeed a handicapper.

What do you think of Chief Wallaby's chances on Saturday?

He's my pick. Have him on top the Katie

Richbred 6 speed I think will go to the lead and we might see a

little bit similar to last year where the pacesetter is able to

hang on for, you know, maybe underneath in some of those

exotics, whether it be the the Super high 5 or or the perfect

date. Yeah, that's awesome.

Chief Wallaby, by the way, you're not going to be alone.

A lot of people back here really like that horse.

And certainly Alex. Hey, if you watch the Florida

Derby, it wouldn't be too hard to figure out why people like.

It absolutely. I think you guys untapped

potential still a little green. And of course, Mr. Mott is the

foremost trainer, and if he's going blinkers on, I know the

statistics are against it, but I got faith in him.

There any other Derby horses that are catching your eye this

week, whether you've been going for the PPS or you've been

watching any videos of them training, anything like that?

Absolutely. Further Ado is I love him and I

think he has the greatest jockey of all time aboard for this

mount. But I am a little scared that he

might be a little essential quality esque with with just

loving Keeneland. Could he get a piece of it?

Absolutely. But I'm going to go more on the

chief Wallaby side there. And then.

I really love emerging Market. Untested as far as you know,

only two races so far, but I don't think Chad would have him

in this spot if he wasn't live. And you know Flavian's going to

be in the Super so he'll have a seat.

Yep. That's right, that's what he

does. You have urgent bark.

And, of course, out of the Chad Brown bark.

Oh, the he had a Turkey come again to cure.

She followed me, though. Man, one of those horses we've

heard a lot about this week. Yeah.

Excited about him? Yeah.

Everybody's been getting very excited about him.

He's been looking great out on the track every single morning,

maybe getting a little overshadowed by sovereignty just

by being in the same barn as him each morning, at least when it

comes to getting photos. So we heard earlier this week,

Alex from Riley Month, that he thinks his dad is just bringing

sovereignty out to the track to try to intimidate other horses.

Do you agree with Riley? Well, if I've seen some notes

from earlier episodes about how people have seen him come out

onto the track and, and just jaw dropped and they're, they're

worried that they might have to be going up against sovereignty

and then they find out that it's him and they breathe a sigh of

relief. So that could be some mind games

and and I don't mind that. Yeah, I don't mind it either.

That's. Out in your favor with Chief

Wallaby. Oh, man.

Well, the good stuff for sure. Well, Alex, again with

Christie's Bluegrass, really appreciate you hanging out with

us on the program. You're going to be hanging out

with us during the race replays segment as well throughout the

rest of 2026 and hopefully into further years as well.

So, Alex, thank you so much for being supportive of our work and

we look forward to a long, long and fruitful partnership.

Thank you both and good luck at the windows everyone.

All right, thank you so much to Alex Smallwood for joining us

today and for presenting all of our coverage here, Blood Horse

at the Derby throughout the week.

And we couldn't get to the end of the week here on Blood Horse

at the Derby without bringing in Frank Angst, our editorial

director. You know him from Blood Horse

Monday. Frank, how you how have you been

enjoying Derby Week? It's been a smooth week largely.

I mean, you hate to see so many scratches, but unfortunately

that kind of happens with a lot of races.

But it's been a smooth week. Nice wet.

We got some rain yesterday but better yesterday and then

Saturday. Exactly.

Now you've been out here covering the Derby for a couple

of years and what is what kind of that special part of the

morning seeing like all the owners, the Breeders, trainers,

everybody kind of converging on Derby all at one week?

Yeah, just seeing all those familiar faces that come in,

many of them each year that the fortunate ones in it.

And then you see the the people who are maybe it's their first

one or are just rarely make it and you see how much they

appreciate it. I think that's really the thing

that comes through is just how much everybody appreciates being

a part of this. Yeah.

Well, we've mentioned a little bit earlier on in the show,

Louie and I about kind of the behind the scenes stuff that

we're doing throughout the week, you know, with our jobs as

journalists. You were back there at the Barns

this morning. You got to catch up with the

connections of Bella Ballerina, who was scratched from the

Kentucky Oaks. So what'd you learn about about

her? Scratch yeah.

So Brendan Walsh is her trainer and it's it's not a major

injury. It's you know at this point

everybody thinks it's pretty minor but it's I'll times you

know it's not much you can do this close to the race.

So they're very much, Brendan very much anticipates getting

her back in order and racing and and short order.

But unfortunately, yes, it's injury to her right front.

So they're forced to scratch and that puts resistant to the

field. Yeah.

She'll be trying to dirt for the first time.

It's been that kind of thing in the Derby as well, just kind of

the small, badly timed injuries that have knocked these horses

out. I know I talked to Brendan Walsh

a couple times throughout the last week and he was feeling

very hopeful about his chances. So just one of those timing

things. She was actually gonna be my

pick. She.

Was my pick. Too, I like the pattern with

Pretty Mischievous. It was kind of like, well, this

is the exact same performance Pretty mischievous games gave

ahead of the Oaks, so I was like, I'll go with that, but

didn't quite work out. But we look forward to seeing

her again. Yeah, we'll hopefully see her

back in action here soon. But we are here to talk to

Kentucky Derby coming up and hear your thoughts on how the

race is kind of shaking out what have been kind of the key

storylines as far as, you know, what we can expect from the

horses coming into Kentucky Derby this year.

How do you see the race unfolding?

You know, what really struck me is that it's quite a, I feel

like the field's pretty evenly matched.

I mean, I, you know, I, I didn't see a whole lot of separation

between what are considered the best horses and on down to about

10/11/12 and in that area. And then Renegade, who, I mean,

just made an amazing closing run in Arkansas Derby.

And you have to account for that.

I mean, you have to respect that, but draw on the rail

that's well documented how much of a challenge that was.

So even if you thought he was a little bit separated from the

field that that rail kind of puts him and adds a challenge

right away. Further Ado has been spectacular

at times, but can he do it again?

Coming out of Keeneland, which you know that that really

shouldn't be a factor, but in the back of your mind you're

like, no one has come out of the blue.

The winner hasn't come out of the Bluegrass to win the

Kentucky Derby in a long time. So that's in the back of your

head. But pace wise and looking at it,

that's kind of what struck my eye.

You have a few horses that may or may not go to the lead.

So you're you just kind of wonder how that's going to shape

up front. And then you have a lot of

horses that seem like they want to come from behind.

So really what I kind of went with this year is the horses

that I think are just going to be two to four lengths off just

kind of right in that pressing spot and get the first move.

Yeah, I thought that's kind of what I was looking for with my

picks this year. Do you, do you feel like is it

clear that 6 speed is going to be the horse on top And the

question is just is anybody going to go with him?

Is that? You know, do you know, maybe

maybe that the horse that I, you know, I I would probably want a

little bit odds on this, but the horse I suspect might go to the

latest potente. OK, Bob Baffert, He's he's won

the Derby in a lot of ways. But then in recent years he's

won about four either on the lead or near the lead.

Yeah. And what I respect about Bob and

the Derby is he seems to realize if you got a speed horse, go.

Yeah. I, I think a lot of the horsemen

get in the mindset of it's a mile and 1/4, so maybe I need to

rate and save up. I think Bob has more of the

mindset of I have a speed horse. He's going, he may or may not

get a mile and a quarter, but I'm not going to change his

racing style that we're going to leave alone.

And if he gets the mile and 1/4, he gets it.

If he doesn't, he doesn't, but I mean, he's gone to the winner's

circle a lot. You know, Medina Spirit, of

course, that got changed, but for betters, that's that's what

paid. I, I cashed on that.

Authentic went gate to wire, you know, justify close gate to wire

war emblem to wire. So he he this is a strategy that

he does and for 10 day I was looking at and he went to the

lead in the Santa Anita Derby, which it was a little bit of a

day that wasn't very much speed favoring that day.

So, so maybe he comes right out of that and does it again anyway

that that's the one I kind of think might go.

We saw him have a very quick work at Churchill Downs over the

weekend. We also saw that same kind of

quick work from Intrepido. Do you think he's possibly going

to be up there as part of this? He he might, yeah.

I mean because he's from the three hole, he's got 2 closers

inside. So it makes sense that he goes,

I think he goes the lead and gets the rail.

We'll see if he's fast enough, quite frankly, with these other

two horses, some of these other ones.

Yeah. Well, you mentioned earlier the

rail for Renegade. How much of that is it's

actually a bad spot to be in the Derby versus most of the time

the horse that's in the rail position isn't a horse like

Renegade. That's one of the favorites.

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. There's there's some years that

the rail horse didn't really have a chance.

A big change has occurred since they've gone to the single gate.

I'm, I'm a lot of these, you know, a lot of these statistics

date back went to when it was 2 gates.

And if you looked at that thing head on, the inside horses

really had to come out just to get onto the main track.

Exactly. So that doesn't occur anymore.

So I think you almost have to go back to when they went to the

single gate and look at those stats.

Some horses have run. All right.

I guess the thing about it isn't so much to me, it's not so much

the position itself is horses kind of invariably come over.

Yeah, I think there's just a natural inclination to do that.

And you got the, you got the spot.

There's nowhere left to go. Exactly.

So. So, you know, as a closer, he

should be able to let some of these horses get up past and

then just Arad should just be able to find a spot on the rail.

Ideally, you know that that's what you want to happen.

And it very well could. And then he just has to pick his

spot to get out. Other jockeys are going to be

aware. Exactly.

They're not going to let him get anything.

But you know, you also have to run your race for your horse

too. So I don't know.

I mean, there's going to be some of that, but it's a 20 horse

field. It's like one thing if it's an 8

horse field and there's a four to five and you're like, oh, I

can really keep them buried on the rail.

But twenty horses and people kind of know there's several

horses in here very capable of winning.

I I don't know how much of that'll go.

On and it's hard to keep track of where they are too.

I think back to you know, MO Donegal was I, I would say since

we got this new gate, obviously he would go on to win the

Belmont. He's probably maybe the best

horse that's been down in that rail position since we've gotten

the new gate. And by the time they turned for

home, I think the thing that got him beat was not the fact that

he drew the rail, was that he was like 8-9 wide going around

the final turn there versus Rich, Strike was able to kind of

sneak up toward the inside where he'd been originally.

So maybe there is a little bit too much, but the mindset of we

had to get the horse outside and sometimes maybe that can cost

you too. Yeah, that's true.

That's true. Now, when you're looking at some

of these closers other than Renegade, is there anyone

throughout the prep season that really caught your eye that has

either the kind of kick that's going to be explosive enough to

get there or maybe more of the grinder that's going to be able

to like Sovereignty last year. He's going to gradually going to

work his way up forward. Is there any of the closers that

have caught your? Eye, I mean the horses that I'm

looking for are the ones that are going to move first and I

think from a little bit closer. So the two that I that I've

landed on that have that running style.

My top pick is emerging market. I know it's just the two starts.

I've seen Chad Brown when grade ones off A1 start.

So I mean that's part of it. The horse ran a really good

first out and then it improved in the second race.

It was challenge to the wire. I think the horse got a lot out

of that race with Pavlovian going with him to the wire.

I think they approves again and gets that first jump and smooth

trip. He's the winner.

How much have you seen with Emerging Market?

Just having the two starts? You have a couple other horses

in the race that didn't start at at two years old.

How much have you seen since Justify as you've been covering

the Derby? Just the mindset start to change

in the trainers. You know, growing up with this

race, you just had so many. This horse, Yeah, you have to

check these ten boxes before you even think about picking.

I've kind of tossed a lot of that out the window.

I I very much view this race the way I used to view the Breeders

Cup Juvenile. These are horses that just.

Most of them haven't raced a lot and you're trying to pick out

the one that's going to put together their best race on this

day, which I guess you could say a lot about things, but I'm

saying that the horses, no one has really shown their best

necessarily yet. So you're looking for the horse

that might jump up and that's where Emerging Market I think

fits into that. Chief Wallaby, that's my second

choice. I also think he very much fits

into that. He just kind of keeps running

the same race in a lot of ways. I mean, regardless of the

result, it's sort of the same speed figure, same grinding.

If he improves, you know, look out because he's going to have

that good, I think, good set up again to make his move first

potentially. Bill Mott just won this race

last year. Anything for him to win it

again. And the horses look great in the

mornings too. I don't do a whole lot with the

morning stuff because I don't see a whole lot of morning

workouts like other people do so.

But you know, he's looked, by all accounts, he's look good in

the mornings. What do you make of him adding

blinkers for this start? It looks like in maybe the last

15 years or so, the stats for that haven't been very good, but

a lot of times that's the long shots that are kind of making

that equipment change. What do you make of his?

I liked it quite a bit because it tells me that they want it.

Maybe Bill's seen the race the same way I am as yeah, it's

going to be some lukewarm frontrunners.

Let's get close to in what I mean.

I don't think anybody's going to go crazy.

Yeah, so let's. Get we're not going to palace

malice type of. Thing and I don't think this

horse is going to the lead either, which sometimes you see

what blinkers, but I think they're looking to be close,

yeah. And when they make that move,

it's what they envision is we're going to lead and catch us if

you can if you're a late runner. There's been a lot of talk about

Chief Wallaby. There's been a lot of talk about

the Puma. Both of them have been defeated

in their prep races by commandment.

I've been saying on this show it seems like he's kind of the

under the radar type horse because he's not getting the

same respect as the horses that he's getting beat.

Part of that may be due to the fact he can't keep a jockey.

What do you make of make of his chances here?

I mean, that's the whole you would feel.

So I'm going against him largely and but I will feel awfully

silly at the floor Derby winner wins this and I I made it a

whole lot more complicated and I needed to be by picking one of

the horses he just defeated because yeah, I mean, that's

been the the main road to the Derby.

There's more more winners come out of Florida Derby, more

horses come out of Florida Derby too.

So you know, that's that's strong and you don't want to go

against it. I I just have this feeling that

maybe he's already peaked for a while, like the cycle wise.

So I don't know that how much more improvement there is for

for this race, like it could come later in the year, but he's

the Florida Derby winner, so he won't be shocked if he's in the

winner's circle Saturday. Well.

Florida has been such a strong place in many years, but

especially this year we have him, Chief Wallaby, the Puma

coming out of those races. The Puma defeated Further Ado in

the Tampa Bay Derby. He had Renegade defeating the

Puma and the Sam Davis. He had an emerging market

debuting at Tampa Bay. If it's not going to be Florida

that produces the Derby winner, what's kind of the next best

area that you've seen that could potentially produce it this

year? I mean, as, as I said, I was

very impressed with emerging markets race.

I mean, I guess he's the one that I like out of there.

Again, Pavlovian, I don't know if he, I don't know if he can

improve. He's had more starts.

Yeah, that might, we might have seen his peak again though.

He has connections that have won this race twice so.

They got to get air, but. And I guess you could throw him

in to California in some ways. He's California trained and and

you know, that's he's not my pick, but so happy if Bob

Baffert's the trainer, so happy and he wins the Santa Anita

Derby. We're having completely

different conversations. He's among the favorites for

this race, and so Happy won it with Mark Gladd, who's not a

trainer that's well known to a lot of the people that will be

betting Saturday. The horse ran tremendously well,

got a really strong speed figure.

So you know that he makes a lot of sense.

You have a little bit of question with the run Happy, who

of course was a champion sprinter.

Yeah, so he's the sire and is is so Happy going to get a mile and

a quarter, but he's certainly good look good at a mile and a

eighth passing potente and the Santa need to win the Santa

Anita Derby. Yeah, I I've said that on what

was Monday before that when we were talking about journalism

last year, that when you have that horse out there in

California that can can kind of consistently beat the Baffords

the way that So Happy did in the San Vicente and then in the

Santa Anita Derby, you got to definitely pay attention a horse

like that who are. So you mentioned Emerging market

Chief Wallaby as your top picks. Are there any of your live long

shots that you're looking at to maybe fill in these exact

trifecta superfecta? So so I listed him third just

because he kind of that's what a lot of publications asked for.

You know who your top three picks.

I don't know that I'll finish third, but I would say my third

most likely winner OK is Potente because I I can see him going to

the I've seen the movie before. Yeah, I've seen the sequels

also. Many sequels this could.

Be Part 5 because like I said, a lot of these horses, they try to

save up. Meanwhile, Bob Baffert has taken

this approach of we're going yeah, and you guys come catch us

and it has paid off before. The horse is a $2.4 million

purchase for a reason. He's got the connections,

obviously he's capable of going in the lead and winning a big

race. Well, we are standing here right

outside the entrance to Churchill Downs.

You can see the statue of Aristides, the first Kentucky

Derby winner from 1875, right there behind us in front of the

Twin Spires. They call today Thirby, the

Thursday of Derby week. What's it like just coming here

throughout the week during the race days and seeing the crowds

that we get for these? Events yeah, I think therby is

very much been embraced by by Louisville s s the Wednesday

racing as well. So that's it's good to see the

local people come out. I mean, Kentucky Oaks Day in

Kentucky Derby, they have very much become a national and

really an international affair that draws people from all over

the world, which is really cool too.

Now this morning, Louie and I actually got a chance to talk to

Mayor Craig Greenberg of the City of Louisville about just

what this event means to the city.

Frank, you write our weekly Dollars and Cents column on

bloodhorse.com that you can find also in the Blood Horse Daily.

It's going to give us your perspective on what an event

like this can do to the economics of the city.

Yeah, of course, so many people come into town for the the Oaks

and the Derby. So that fills up your hotels.

You know, people need to rent cars, people need to eat out at

restaurants. So it is really a big economic

driver events like this and, and what Churchill Downs

Incorporated has done and, and I mean big event prices, we it's

gone. I'm wearing the college football

championship. It was, it's crazy.

Like I, I get that and I get any criticism of that.

But what Churchill Downs Incorporated has done and people

are buying these seats for the Oaks and Derby are coming from

all over the world, paying good prices for good seating and kind

of a once in a lifetime experience.

Now what Churchill Downs has done is for for more of the

local fans. They've expanded this race week.

I mean, they're from the the only day they're taking off from

Saturday through Saturday. Is that exactly?

We have 5 O Tuesday on Tuesday, which kind of focuses on the

local area, yeah. So you really have local people

coming out on draw day to Saturday, the Tuesday card,

Wednesday card, Thursday card, Derby day as we see people

filing in now. So those have become big events

as well. As Bill Karstandian put it, the

CEO of Churchill Downs Incorporated.

It's like putting on five or six Super Bowls in one week.

You know, it's like 350,000 people or something that's going

to come see racing, which that's what we love.

I mean all these people come and see and racing and yeah, so it's

definitely a economic driver for the area.

I know Breeders' Cup has done some.

I'll have to look at a Derby study, but I know Breeders' Cup

has done some really good studies just showing how much of

an economic driver it is for the community that hosts.

That's those types of events. Exactly.

And unlike something like the Super Bowl, this is always going

to be in the same spot every single year.

Yeah. And so you're going to see every

year people are coming in at this time of year for the city

of Louisville. And we'll talk to the mayor as

well about, you know, what that does for the rest of the year.

In addition. And the big thing that Derby has

going for it is it's so much more than the race.

I know exactly. Yeah.

And me are all about the race. Yeah, many of our Derby.

Festival many of our listeners. But you have that people are

looking to buy the new clothes and yeah, drives out for that.

You know, you want to look good there.

You want the best food, You want the best look good.

So yeah, just so many areas that can embrace this week.

All right, well, we'll cut to the mayor here in just a moment,

but Frank Angst and the rest of the Blood Horse team here, we've

been working hard all week. We've got not just us as the

writers and all the other writers that are with us.

We had Byron King on the show a few days ago.

All of our photographers are videographers, everybody back at

home doing the editing of our stories, everything like that.

Just great team all the way around.

And you guys are really crushing on the podcast.

You guys are really, it's not just information, you guys are

putting people right, right in the middle of it.

So I love it. I listen everyday.

Awesome. Well, Blood Horse at the Derby

might be coming to a close today, but Blood Horse Monday,

every single Monday, you can check out Louie and I, and we'll

bring Louie back in at the end of this episode as well.

But then also obviously bloodhorse.com, subscribe to the

Blood Horse daily. Get that straight to your e-mail

every single day. Subscribe to Blood Horse

magazine, get that sent to you every single month.

And just keep checking out the website for all of your great

horse racing content that we do at Blood Horse dot.

Let's go ahead and head on over to talk to Mayor Craig Greenberg

of Louisville All. Right blood horse at Derby 152

rose along. Mayor Craig Greenberg here,

Mayor of Louisville, obviously hanging out with us.

Happy Derby Mayor, how are you? Happy Derby, I'm doing

wonderful. It is a great time of year for

our city and I just love that the sun is out and shine.

Thank God for that. Yeah, I know a wet one

yesterday. Should be better for Thirby and

hopefully through the rest of the weekend you're back here,

you know, every year just the economic impact of this thing

for you know, someone in your position.

I I'm sure you just it's hard to it's hard to imagine it it's.

Wonderful for all of our local businesses.

It's also a great opportunity for our city.

You know, these are three Super Bowl like events day after day

after day here. But this, we've been doing it

for two weeks. We had Thunder over Louisville.

We've had a Pegasus parade. I ran in 1/2 marathon last week.

Last night we had a Steamboat race.

It's a really unique opportunity to welcome the world to our city

and show people we can do great things here in Louisville.

You mentioned it's like a Super Bowl event.

Of key difference being that the Super Bowl moves around every

single year. For 152 straight years, the

Kentucky Derby, this big events been right here in the city.

That's got to be pretty special. It is and it gives us

opportunity. You know, we just announced that

the 2028 USA Olympics gymnastics trials is going to be in

Louisville. And I think a big reason that

we're able to get that is because the Kentucky Derby

people, they know that we can welcome the world.

We can pull off giant events like this.

And that's part of what I try to use Derby Week for, is to bring

people into town that otherwise might not come show off our

city. They'll fall in love.

And who knows where it leads? Well, Speaking of falling in

love, we've now got a King's team playing downtown, plays a

professional football because Mike Ropoli loves this place,

right? And so I mean, you talk about

the impact, it really is a giant ecosystem of sports now.

Yeah, that's right. And Michael Poli has said a big

part of the reason the Kings are here is because of the Kentucky

Derby. He was driving by, he saw the

arena that we had, the soccer stadium, Linn Family Stadium,

and now we have a wonderful football team.

And so I'm really excited about tonight. 3 days in a row of

national exposure for our team on and so it's going.

To be great. Fantastic.

Just how exciting is this week for you personally being out

here Every time you've been there now for a couple years,

you've gotten to probably see a completely different experience

now being the mayor. How's how fun is this for you?

I love it. It's a great honor to be mayor

of Louisville. It's my dream job and to the

pride that I have for our city. This week when I see our entire

city coming together, you know, we've had derbies come after

some tragedies, whether it's a natural disaster or some other

challenges that we faced. And it always brings our

community together. And I feel like it is a great

springboard to do other wonderful things and for people

to have some good family time as well.

That's what I hope people get out of this, is the some unique

memories that they'll make this year, however they celebrate

Derby. All right, so I'm, I'm not

wearing running shoes. I do own them half marathon.

Is there a chance you do the full marathon next year?

You know, those days I think are behind.

It's tough enough to squeeze in the the training routine with

this job and running 1/2 marathon on each year, it gets

exponentially harder, I've realized.

There you go. Well, Mayor Craig Greenberg,

really appreciate the time. Thank you.

Have a great Derby week. Thank you so much.

All right. Thanks to all our great guests

on the show today, including a little Have you ever?

Have you ever interviewed a mayor before?

I have not interviewed a mayor. Before I have a little

milestone. For you.

I know that that was pretty cool this morning.

Unfortunate. So we talked earlier in the

episode about a little behind the scenes stuff.

Well, let me tell the story about how my my mics decided not

to work the first time. We were going to interview him,

although you weren't there at that time.

I tried to grab him quick when he was here.

So it all it all ended. Up like now we were just like

standing on the other side of a tent or something like I was yes

here, but like I didn't know where you were, where the mayor

was, but. Anyways, But yeah, so we got to

talk to the mayor. I just think it's really cool.

Obviously you and I both live here in Louisville, of course,

and so we get to see the excitement.

I was very upset that I missed Thunder this year, the Thunder

of Louisville, but I wasn't. It was OK because I was going to

see sovereignty journalism in white abario running Oakland

Park. So I was OK with that.

But. But you know, that's such a key

event to the year for me, for the city, just how exciting that

is for people that don't know. Thunder over Louisville two

weeks before the Kentucky Derby. And that is kind of the big

entry into the Kentucky Derby Festival.

And so that is it's just a really cool event.

It's, I think it's the largest fireworks show in North America,

in North America outside the 4th of July, something like that.

Oh, I think period. And outside is the is the is the

actual? Yeah.

So so yeah, maybe it's going on. It's gotten bigger since the

last time I heard. That in an air show, I mean, a

huge number of really distinct planes coming through.

I mean, it's a remarkable sort. Of but so many, so many events.

But 700,000 people crowd around the river downtown.

Exactly. Yeah, You got the marathon.

You got like the bed races. I know my friend Ferguson

participated in that a couple days ago.

The Steamboat race, like the mayor mentioned, all these

different types of events. It's such a fun time to be here

in the city. Even if you are not going to be

coming to the Kentucky Derby, if you have the opportunity to pass

through the city those two weeks leading up to it, come for it.

And as the mayor mentioned. Actually, the hotels were

cheaper last week too. Yeah, well.

As the mayor mentioned, you know, the infrastructure that

this city has because of the Kentucky Derby has made it to

where it can host all sorts of events throughout the year.

You know, I was a former tour guide over at the Derby Museum.

And the amount of conventions that we had constantly coming in

because of the hotel space available, because of, you know,

the Expo Center, the size of that and all the parking that's

available in the near vicinity as well.

Because of all those things that come with being the home with

the Kentucky Derby on a yearly basis, it really does help the

city blossom throughout the entire year.

So it was awesome for Mayor Greenberg to hop on with us,

share a little bit of his thoughts on that.

I just thought that was really. Cool.

It was very nice of him to join us for sure.

Appreciate everyone else who was able to join us on the program,

including our colleague Frank Inks.

Find him at bloodhorse.com and of course, all the great

coverage. There, well, last episode.

Use your pick. I'm I'm on emerging markets,

same as Frank. Actually, I could not believe

that he and I landed on the same horse.

To be fair, I said on our seminar the other night at at

blood horse. You can find it on all of our

social media, especially on YouTube.

Easy to find it there with our friend Barry Spears.

I think this is a tale of two derbies.

You've got a horse like Commandment who is the classic,

you know, breaks his maiden at 2, undefeated at three.

I think 10 years ago. We just say there's your Derby

winner and we don't even debate it.

It's over. We know what that is.

But then Justify comes along, kind of ruins that, sort of.

The Apollo thing right that mage not far after.

Yeah, March right after it, Mage right after that.

And then, you know, so some of these trends that start to go,

I'm wondering if we're not going to have the breakthrough of the

very lightly raced horse who just has a ton of potential,

puts it together in one day. And I get Flavian Pratt, who

rarely misses the top four. And by that I mean one out of 12

times in a Triple Crown races. I just trust him to pilot this

horse. I saw what he did with a horse

like Country House, with a horse like.

And by the way, put country house down, I think emerging

markets way better than country house.

And so if I think that I would say that, but if I'm saying

that, then why would I cover my shot here?

And if I'm going to get 15 to 1, sounds good to me.

Yeah, well, I'm sticking with Incredible.

If you've been watching Blood Horse Monday, you know I've been

a big fan of him since the very beginning back in October.

I think you just throw out the Holy Bowl.

I think you're right. He didn't like the track and

everything else that I've seen from him tells me that he can

win the Kentucky Derby. He's proven at Churchill Downs.

He loves it here at Churchill Downs.

When it comes to the training, I think he can definitely get the

distance. And on top of that, I know

there's gonna be a lot of questions about the one turn

mile underneath in the Virginia Derby.

I'm not too concerned about that because we have seen him be

successful around 2 turns here at Churchill Downs.

And then he I, I trust in Jaime Torres, who we had on the show

the other day as a writer. I think he's going to give him a

good trip and that's. Actually a note I saw online,

actually someone responded to something I did and they were

like, oh, I love that interview with Jaime.

I'm I'm all in on incredible now.

He seems really. Confident.

Yeah. He's been very confident since

the very beginning. Since back in the summer, he's

been telling me about that. He was.

Sovereignty. Little sovereignty, little

sovereignty. He was telling me about Albus

back then too. But by the way, just keep that,

just keep that in mind. I don't know, it was a tough

selection, but he, he back in as a 2 year old year.

I had heard a little bit about Albus surge as well, but so he

I, I just, I've been on his bandwagon.

I can't get off now. That burst that he gave once he

finally got into the clear, the Virginia Derby, that kind of

burst can win the Kentucky Derby if.

He can get the same and we saw him in the long stretch here at

Churchill down the street sides of the fall as well.

So a horse that we will be watching as well.

Well, for Sean, I'm Louis. Thanks to all of you for hanging

out with us here on the Blood Horse Podcast Network.

Of course, find us on Monday, Blood Horse Monday every single

week will take you through the entire year.

No reason to just hang out during Derby.

Again, thanks to Alex Smallwood for presenting our coverage

here. Find him at Christie's Bluegrass

can help you with all of your middle of Kentucky real estate

needs. But certainly if you're looking

for a spot for your horses, he'd love to help you with that as

well. For Sean I'm Louis, this has

been Blood horse at Kentucky Derby 152.

The Blood Horse is dedicated to the improvement of thoroughbred

breeding and racing for over 100 years.

Don't forget to like, subscribe and save Blood Horse Monday on

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and insights, visit us at bloodhorse.com.

Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.