BloodHorse Monday 3/2/26 | Brad Cox

Now you know what time it is. It's time for Blood HORSE

Monday. Welcome in.

Thanks for starting your horse racing week with us.

Hey, Sean, I'm Louis back with another edition of this thing,

57 editions of this young Sean. Growing up in Michigan, I played

ice hockey. I wore the number 57 actually as

a tribute to a family member. No one else wore 57 because it's

not a hockey number. But I didn't play like a

linebacker. I was kind of a finesse players

that surprise you. I look like a linebacker.

Don't I? Yeah, A.

Little. I wouldn't, I wouldn't take a

second glance if I saw you out there playing a linebacker.

So I'm I'm not the biggest hockey fan, but which number

ranges are they typically? Generally you see guys zero to

20, OK, and like, you know, lower numbers now the the kids,

literally everyone younger than me, the numbers don't matter.

Like they wear whatever they want.

The 80s and 90s you get, you know the Conor Mcdavid's are

wearing the in the. 80s. Sitting Crosby's in 87 that kind

of thing yeah we opened with hockey how about that That's

true that's the. One, that's the one hockey

player. You know, one number.

There it is. Yeah.

So before you had to be like the goat to wear a weird number.

So Gretzky 99, goat. Mario Lemieux 66 goat.

Like those were not things that just dudes did.

Steve Heisman played for my favorite team, the Red Wings,

for years, WAR 19. That's what men did.

You understand? That's what men did when we were

a proper country, no longer a proper country, but you know, as

far as Jersey. Cutters.

How that to Canada? I see.

I see the gold medal in our pocket.

You mean two of them? How about that?

Yeah. All right.

So I'm sorry, Wood by me. All right, so you are a busy man

this weekend doing Sean Collins things.

Fountain of Youth on Saturday. Rebel on Sunday.

But before the fountain of youth, of course, you were also

at a training center. Yes.

OK, because this is your life. Like, you know what?

I could stay. I could have a cup of coffee and

hang out at my park, at my, you know, hotel till 9:00 AM.

But you know what? Instead, I'm going to drive 45

minutes to watch some horses run around in a circle.

That's that's my man Sean. That's why he's on this show.

Open Tornado Breeze for five for long.

Scott is. He still gigantic and very

talented, yes, OK. Good all right he's looking good

I rad was on him on Saturday he's he's feeling good I got she

she's so spicy he's back at the clinic and and good to go after

her little infection that she. Had more galloping the working

kind of thing or what? Yeah.

I think. She stretched her legs.

Yeah, Jose said. They'd probably get her back on

the work tab you in the next week or so if things continue

going the way that they are. So we'll see her probably at

Keeneland is going to be the target for the Giants Causeway

stakes now and then Scottish lassie's back getting back going

too. If I got to talk to Jorge Brillo

quite a bit about her. So she's getting back into the

swing of things, probably on the work tab by mid March for her

return. So it's good, good, good

morning. I made the most of that morning.

So I. Appreciate that very much.

You're at that fountain of youth.

We'll talk with Brad Cox first, then you'll hear Frank angst.

He'll join us. He'll react to to Brad and some

of the Derby preps that we saw. But then we'll hear his

interview with someone who's been on the show.

So now he's a friend of the show, Eric Camelback, who is the

CEO of the National HBP. At their conference this week, I

got to interview Jinx Fires, who they're giving the lifetime

achievement award to Great Arkansas Horseman just a couple

of weeks ago on the Kentucky Racing Spotlight, a show I do

here in the Louisville market. And it guys like Jinx are just

such a nice. I I can talk about him for an

hour. You're at the Fountain of youth

though. Commandment does what we wanted

from Commandment. He gets pushed in a serious way

at the end of that race as well. I think we saw so much of what

we want to see from a pair of Derby contenders in both

commandment. We'll talk to Brad Cox in just a

second, but Chief Wallaby as well.

Second time starter did all of the proper things I thought

really showed well here. Tell me if you've heard this

before. Fountain abuse.

Cox Overmont. Well, no, That was the Florida

dirt. Those Florida?

Never. Yeah.

Excuse me. Yeah.

We're at Gulf St. Park at least.

Yes. Yes like Gulf St.

Park Yeah and I I really like this race this week from both of

those top. I also want to give a shout out

to solitude dude as well. I agree with you.

I I think maybe that mile on the 16th is going to prove to be a

little bit too long for him, but I thought he ran sensational as

well. He's he's already my top pick

for Pat de Mile, Woody Stevens, as we're looking ahead for

those. And I think I said on the show

last week, I think this is going to be a really, really good.

One turn horse so. And he got flattered by the

Rebel Stakes, which we'll talk about later on the results of

that race. But yeah, I thought Commandment

Chief Wallaby both looked like legit Kentucky Derby type horses

in this race. We'll ask Brad about it.

I think the number one comment that Brad had made was like

after the race was about how I rad kind of kept shaking at the

reins. A commandment let him go, go

that extra 16th of a mile, get that mile underneath and under

him. That's because they went to the

first wire at the Fountain of youth, the mile and the 16th

that Gulfstream will go to the second wire and the four Derby.

So they let him run out that that last 16th of a mile.

So I think that's a good sign. He finished full of energy.

I thought Chief Wallaby ran exceptionally well, especially

because a lot of the pre race press that, you know, you kind

of read with Bill Mott, it didn't sound like it was 100%

the option they wanted to take going into the Fountain of

Youth. But one of the other spots I

think didn't fill. And so they didn't, they didn't

sound super confident that he was going to be able to perform

at his best in this race. But he ran so well and you would

think, OK, he's going to take another step forward next time

based off of that. And so I think we got a really

good performance from both these top two.

I saw a lot of a lot of support for Chief Wallaby online of

people looking at him toward the Kentucky Derby off of this

performance. So I can't can't complain about

either of their races for sure. We'll get to Aqueduct to just

after we talk with with trainer Brad Cox, but I think between

Chief Wallaby and Iron Honor, we got a couple of only second time

starters that suddenly very much injected themselves into the

Derby conversation. Chief Wallaby, that second place

finish plenty of points to at least take a serious swing at

the Florida Derby, if nothing else, right and then with Iron

Honor, you know a lot of questions up in Aqueduct as

well. One turn mile who does at least

Chief Walby answered the two turn question right.

At least we saw that part of it. And so that part really did

stand out to me. And and obviously Sean was at

the Southwest yesterday. Yes, we'll talk about that as

well. But.

You're a crazy person. We'll, we'll definitely get into

that, but. Shout out to Louis picking me up

at the. Airport.

I did. Two hours the airport today,

yes, started started filming. I showed up with lunch too by

the. Way I know.

That's like you don't have friends like me, you have me

like that's it airport pick up with with lunch.

That's bro, that's gonna. Have asked for anything.

That's the next level stuff. That's that's, that's

friendship. You and I, of course headed to

San Anita this weekend. We'll take in San Felipe in

person, the Tampa Bay Derby as well on Saturday.

We will preview both of those to close the show today.

Commandment, though, you saw him in person.

I mean, there's no reason not to like him at this point.

I mean, there just isn't anything about a connections

breeding. All the things about commandment

all line up here. Yeah, and he's taking the proper

steps forward coming out of that win in the Mucho Macho Man

Stakes now stretching out here to the mile and 16th.

And I mean, it was the theme of the weekend was the the fights

down the stretch in these different prep races.

And so to see him come out on the winning end of one of those

fights down the stretch, to see him show, show the heart.

And I'm probably gonna end up saying this about all the rest

of the horses we talked about today too.

But showing the heart to fight on, keep battling and, you know,

just make his way up there to get that victory.

That's got to be really encouraging moving forward.

Of course, Commandment, a son of into mischief, but out of an

orb, Yeah, that's it's just old stuff that I I think I have to

do this every time. Yeah, I.

Think every time I mention Orb, I have to get this up.

I have this in in my studio here.

So there you go. The first Kentucky Derby I got

to go to in person 139. I'm sure man, who's been to far

more than that. As Brad Cox joins us here on the

program. Once again, we appreciate him

jumping in. Brad, how are you?

Great. Guys, how are you guys doing?

It's called living a dream. I always ask you the same

question to open every, every conversation that you and I

have, Brad, all of them very serious.

Where are you? Are you from a horse?

And as far as in the office here in Florida and pretty, pretty

close to a horse there. You go see.

That's the answer we're looking for.

One time he told me he was putting out a tie to go to

Keeneland. I almost hung up on him.

I don't like that. I don't like Brad Cox, our South

End guy, Churchill guy, having to put a tie on to go to

Keeneland. I don't like any part of that I

don't like. I don't I don't really like it

much. I.

Don't have to do that. Hey, Gandhi.

Yeah, No, we like go to Caitlin. It's the, it's the tie on Brad

Cox that I don't like. Yeah, that's what.

I Yeah. Well, I mean, hey, whatever you

see a tie on Brad Cox, you know, it's an important.

Race, the race really matters. That's right.

Exactly. And.

The race really mattered this past weekend.

Just Brad, what do you think of Commandment this weekend?

I thought he was very, very good.

You know, obviously answered some questions with with, you

know, distance. We never really know.

We gradually stretched him out three quarters, 7/8 winter mile,

but responded really well. Thought he was, you know, had

had more left in the tank. He exactly what he was doing

there late in the race, kind of leaning out a little bit

looking. I think it was the lights.

They click the lights on it to finish finish line there and

that they were fairly bright and kind of looked at those and

stuff. But, you know, it's encouraging

to see him gallop out well and you know, obviously give us the

confidence to press forward with running a mile and an eighth

next time and then hopefully the the mile and 1/4.

I saw a lot of comments after the race about I Rad kind of

after the finish line, letting him run to that second wire.

They're kind of essentially kind of getting that mile and an

eighth. Was that, was that planned?

Was that something that I Rad just felt like was going to be

beneficial in the moment or was that something that you were

looking for? No, it wasn't planned.

It was just I rad kind of you know, I think I asked him to,

you know, stay focused. I think like he's like, like I

said, you know, they're the last couple jumps or two.

He was just kind of like, you know, leaning in a little bit.

He just wanted to stay after him and, you know, not necessary,

you know, listen, if he would have won easy enough.

I don't know if it, that would have been a, a position I read

would have put him in or put him through, but you know, when

obviously he needed to stay on and, and, you know, they're

young horses, they're still learning.

And it was a little odd. It was getting dark and, and,

and the lights were very bright. And I think that may have been

the reason for the kind of ducking out there.

But, you know, it was nice to see him able to win And, and

honestly, I thought he was going really well there.

I thought he was, you know, they really ran home fast.

I thought the the they, the the numbers, the top two horses were

received the numbers or the numbers reflected the

performance and it was very encouraging moving forward.

Brad Cox down there in Florida joining us here on BLOOD HORSE

Monday. I'm Lou Rabohi, Sean Collins,

appreciate you starting our your horse racing week with Blood

Horse and Brad. This horse, you know, has that

one second. It won twice now I should say

second time in a form cycle. What's the plan for him moving

forward here? When you try the Florida Derby,

you got some points here. I know that there are different

options here, but will he stay at Gulfstream at this point?

All right, now, yeah, I ship back to Payson Saturday.

Yeah, Saturday night should say. And came out of it in good

order. So, you know, he'll train here.

We'll look at the Florida Derby. And then, you know, if if we

felt like we needed another week, I guess we would look at

the bluegrass. But right now, I mean, he came

out of it great. He's a he's a stout, strong

horse. Doesn't puck up after his races

or anything. So I don't see a reason to feel

like, you know, we need an extra week, but anything can happen

with these horses. So the, the, the, I think Plan A

right now would definitely be the Florida Derby and Plan B

would be the Bluegrass if we need, felt like we needed

another week. You wrote him at the very

beginning of January in the Mucho Macho Man.

He gets a nice amount of time off leading into this one.

Is part of the plan there, Brad, to have him third up in the

Kentucky Derby? Is that part of the idea?

No, no, honestly the the idea was to let him just come along

and let him tell us how good he was going to be.

And, and he's, he's responded very well and he's responded to

everything we've asked of him. You know, I like the idea of

the, the one mile race there off the 7/8 race at Churchill.

He was doing well after that race at Keeneland, thought let's

just get him going. He was able to get his maiden

broke, you know, then we had a little time between the Mucho

Macho Man and that maiden win. And then we obviously had some

time between the Mucho Macho Man and the fountains.

So it's been step by step. It's been, you know, we've taken

our time with him trying to get him on this Derby trail.

He's obviously on it. He's he's he's in the Derby, I

guess you would say. I think 50 gets you would

probably get you in Phil. Yeah.

So, you know, he's done everything we've asked.

It's all went well. But, you know, I think that the

timing leading up, I think you can really get caught up in

these Derby preps in December and January and making a lot of

them when you know, you got to be at your best come April and

May, not January and February. And that, that that's tricky.

That's very tricky because you got to be ready to run in these

races. And it's tough.

And it takes a special horse to to March through this campaign

and and and make it and still have enough to be at your best

the first Saturday in May. So building off of that, when

does Brad Cox start to really analyze kind of what the Derby

competition is going to look like?

As you mentioned, he's probably in the Derby now.

You know you've got the spot if you make it there.

Are you already kind of starting to keep an eye on some of the

other contenders or is it you just kind of wait till all the

preps are over? At what point do you really kind

of start locking in on who who else has good horses?

Oh, I've I've been locked in since they started running Tear

probably at Keenelan last spring, but not seriously.

I mean, no, I'm, I'm always locked in.

I mean, I love racing. I love the the the Kentucky

Derby series, the Triple Crown trail, all that good stuff.

So no, I mean, I mean not just being a trainer, I'm a fan of

racing. So I love it.

I mean, I I love watching rebel yesterday.

I mean obviously didn't love the result with with our horse, but

you know, no, I'm, I'm, I'm glued in and and trying to watch

all, all, all the time. I'm watching the works, you

know, XBTV works wherever, whatever we can watch, you know,

from California or her her Gulf, South Florida, you know, watch

horseshoe breeze and stuff. So no, I'm, I'm, I'm, but to

answer your question, I guess really not till the Derby week.

The actual feeling as to what what would play out, the speed

of the race and who's breaking from where.

Well, you, you mentioned the rebel there as well with Rancho

Santa Fe. You've given him a couple tries.

I know yesterday was a little weird with the way that they all

kind of went into the first turn where they were all stacked up

in a straight line going into the track.

Do do you give him a final shot in the last round of preps or

are you going to start kind of thinking something else with him

down? The what he, he actually did

come out of the race with a little injury.

So he, he's, he's going to be off the trail.

Nothing major at all but did did have a little set back and and

he he no he won't get another shot before the Derby.

You didn't, You had a three-year old winner yesterday and guess

70 does this one we need to watch, maybe for some summer

racing. You know, we liked him a good

bit. You know, this winter I just

didn't really perform as well as we hoped, sprinting at the

fairgrounds and then stretching out.

He had trained while leading up to this and we got a performance

that we're finally looking for from him.

So, yeah, I think, you know, with with, you know, if he can

continue to move forward, he he's a horse that, you know, I'm

not certain he's going to put himself on the Derby trail, but

we may give him an opportunity in one of these races if the

right position, right opportunity presents itself.

Brad Cox with us is Blood Horse Monday.

Good news up in New York was that Paradise won her prep for

the Kentucky Oaks in the Butcher.

I I texted you right before actually, I did a preview of

this race on Thursday, Brad, to make sure she was making the

trip. What was it about Aqueduct for

her that made sense? And boy, you got to be happy

with that performance, huh? Yeah, I was very, very proud of

her run there. I thought she she ran a really

big race, you know, you know, she kind of had a pretty good

idea it was going to be a short field.

We she she just come off of a maiden race.

I wasn't super, you know, I just felt like with having an on time

girl in the Devona Dale and and and how how she performed in the

forward gout made the most sense to leave her there.

She's a graded winner. And then obviously this Philly

needed some black type and she's got a very, very nice pedigree

being my gun runner thought, you know, this is going to you know,

if if all goes well, you know, we we should be able to get some

black type up there in New York and you know, it went it went

the way we thought it could go. We we really like this Philly.

She's good. She came out of it in good

order. I think we're going to leave her

right there at Belmont trainer and point for the Gazelle.

You mentioned on time girl there as well.

I know she's a Philly that I really liked them throughout the

fall. And then that forward gal as

well. She was third on on Saturday,

her first time going to the mile.

Are you thinking that was maybe the distance there?

Was there something else maybe that that didn't get her to win?

I think more trip. I mean, like I I she was wide

throughout. Obviously this one term Ma with

Drew. You know, sometimes you draw

these races and you think, oh, that's a great post.

Well, just kind of watching the race and Gulfstream does a

pretty good job of showing you a drone view.

I mean, she was never ever, she never any point had an

opportunity to drop down to the inside and save any type of

ground at all. You know, I read immediately

came back said, man, I could I had that just was hung out the

whole entire time and then, you know, taking nothing away from

the winner. She was very impressive.

And you know, whether we save ground or not, maybe we don't

win, but she had a great trip sitting the ground on the

inside, tipping out and just leaving everybody.

But you know, I, I, I thought she ran well, not quite as well

as I was hoping, but, you know, once again, I think Trip kind of

compromised her a good bit there.

Would you consider her as still being on the Kentucky Oaks

Trail? Would you go go on to the to the

Gulfstream Park Oaks next? It's possible.

You know, where we, you know, I did run her back in four weeks.

I didn't love that even though she was doing well, you know,

and she's not a real big Philly. So I did a good bit with her in

a short period of time. I'm not certain where we'll

we'll show up with her next, but I wouldn't definitely say she's

she's still on the The Oaks Trail.

I made the claim if she had one there, that I wanted her in the

Pat Day Mile. What do you say to that Brad

Cox? Yeah, I don't know.

I think that. Sounds better you keep.

Doing the radio and I'll train the horse.

OK, all right, OK. All right.

OK. I'll stick to the radio side of

things. All right.

He's Brad Cox with us here on Blood Horse on Monday.

The the Saturday, Sunday thing I wanted to ask you about this,

where you know, they run the Derby prep in the Southwest at

Oakland on Sunday. For a trainer like you, how, how

great is that as getting control, who your connections

are, who your riders are going to be day-to-day?

Because you know, you're dealing with riders at the very top of

the sport, those races being on the same day, obviously, you

know, moves where jockeys are and that sort of thing.

How good is that for Someone Like You?

It's great. I think it's good and I think

it's just good for racing, period.

I think it gives, it gives the, the, the racing fan and gambler

an opportunity to focus on card and not cards.

You know, it, it's tough when you're, you know, Saturday we're

at Gulfstream. I mean, you know, we had runners

in New York and, and Fairgrounds and Turfway and Tampa and

Oaklawn and it was a lot to watch.

But you know, come Saturday, Sunday, it was pretty easy to

focus on Oaklawn. We had plenty going on there.

And I think it's great. I think I think we need to so

tracks probably do a little better job of working together

and, and and keeping it to where, you know, now it's not

just about the jocks getting where they need to be.

It's about, you know, the handle and stuff.

So I I don't know ultimately if, if it's going to work for for

the handle and more gambling, I think I'm all for it.

Well, some of your other contenders that are on the Derby

trail, one that's caught our eye here in Kentucky throughout the

winter is full effort. The 2 great efforts that he's

had, just barely missing in the Leonidas and the John Battaglia.

He hasn't run on dirt yet. Is that something that you think

he can handle down the line? Is this a force that you think

could be part of the Derby conversation?

It is possible I mean, look, he he's kind of taking the same

path final game it took last year and he ran a great race in

the Derby. So you know I I don't know in

fact he's he's he's head of where final game.

It was this time last year. We are pointing for the Jeff

Rudy with him. He's really doing well.

We we, we, we liked him a good bit the the other day there at

Turfway and he run a great race and you know, he gets another

16th foot mile on his next run in the Ruby and I think that's

only going to help him. So, you know, distance he likes,

he likes and I think he'll be better mile and an eighth and

more. So we'll see if, you know, if he

steps up in his next run and was able to win, I think we'd have

that conversation if he would pursue the Derby or not.

And then you had My World, who won the Jerome Stakes.

You sent him overseas to the Saudi Derby, didn't perform as

well as you were hoping there, but what would be next for him?

Kind of how did he come out of that race?

We're going to back off of him a little bit.

I'm not saying that he wouldn't show up in a Derby prep at some

point, but we're going to get him checked out, give him a good

once over with the a vet and just make sure everything looks

good out of Saudi and go from there.

He ran. He just kind of left his race in

the paddock. He got extremely warm.

He wasn't bad, but he's just kind of just really wasn't

handling the heat that day that very well and just didn't didn't

fire at all. And he's a son of Essential

Quality, which I know is probably a big deal for you.

You're a Belmont Stakes winner from a few years ago.

I mean, he just seems like the kind of horse that you would

think is gonna love when the distances get longer.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Hopefully, like I said, he can

get back to training very soon and we can have a good spring

summer with him. You mentioned the Saudi Derby

and we're talking with with trainer Brad Cox.

You are someone who ships horses to the Middle East.

Obviously a conflict going on in the Middle East right now.

Has it affected your operation at all?

It hasn't yet. I, I don't know if it will.

It's definitely been something we've been thinking about the

last few days. Our next scheduled trip to the

Middle East right now is hit show leaving on the 14th out of

Miami to to Dubai. And, you know, I don't know if

that'll happen. We're preparing as if we will

right now. But, you know, we'll, we'll just

kind of monitor things and see how things unfold over the next

few weeks. All right, well, he's trainer

Brad Cox. He's going to keep training

training horses. I'm going to keep hosting radio.

I think that's where we agree to all the show today and so we

appreciate it. Jumping on There you go I.

I got one question here for you. One final question.

Here we go. Because, you know, we're.

We're trying to show on college. You never want to get deep in

this Here we. Go Well, we're getting close to

the Derby. You're a Louisville guy.

What? Give US1 funny story, one that

from before you were a trainer, Some old story that you have

from the Derby. Did you say funny story or just

a story? Porta John sprinting.

Porta John sprinting. Porta John sprinting.

Oh man. Please happen.

Anything, Brad. Anything.

Just like a memory. Yeah, any, any kind of random

memory funny story that you have from back before you were really

kind of involved in it. There, Wow.

There's a lot of them. I, I, I, I think, I think

probably one of my biggest takeaways being I'd say maybe

being young and being on the backside was just like the

presence around Wayne Lucas's barn or like just the, the

atmosphere around Wayne Lucas's barn prior to the Derby.

Just like how, how nice it looked and you knew like it was

so quiet and you knew there were like maybe two or three Derby

horses going to March out of that barn in a few hours.

That was probably one thing that was pretty cool thinking back,

you know, when I was younger. It is something on our side of

things, on the radio hosting side of things, Brad, that we do

notice when we come to your barns are the ones that are

organized and have their stuff together.

We can definitely tell for sure. So I I noticed that about

Wayne's operation as well when he was with us.

So Brad, appreciate it very much.

Stay, enjoy the weather down there as it rains enough.

We actually are building an arc as a family tonight because so

Brad B, well, we'll talk to you soon.

There you go, Brad Cox with us here on Blood Horse Monday.

Appreciate him jumping in on short notice.

By short notice. I mean, he had a really good

weekend. So we asked him to be on today.

Exactly. I I love that I have a a

question with Brad, and I also love that he suggested I just

stick to my job and stop telling him who should be in the pad Day

Mile. Yeah, that was nice.

I like, yeah, yeah, I like that a lot.

He's probably correct. There too, you should probably

right. He's like I like the a bells.

It's like a bells good too. All right.

I like the a bells. Well, yeah, man.

So commandment paradise on time girl just I mean so so many.

It's amazing when, you know, we had John Dennis on last week and

he said out loud and you heard Brad talk about it like on

Saturday he's watching races at what 7 tracks?

Yeah OK right, OK so and I'm not exaggerating.

I think it's, it's, yeah, I think it's six or seven.

And Ennis is like, I don't know how they do it because Ennis is

at Turfway and that's where his horses are.

Yeah, right. That's what he's doing and

picking on John Ennis, that's what he's doing.

Right. And then Brad's like, yeah, it

was a little difficult to watch the races, get people to get

people to applaud on Sunday. You got to do the double.

Yes, I, I have a sense you really agree with me on that.

Yes. That it's, it's a great thing

that they let you know the Saturday Sunday thing.

And I think Brad brought up a point that we should have

brought up, but that he's bringing it up is a good thing,

too. And when we talk about, and

we're about to hear from Eric Hamelback from the National

HPPA, and I think this is all a theme.

What do we hear? What's the number one question

about racing right now? How do we grow at this point?

How do we do this stuff? Brad Cox is thinking about

wagering. Yeah, that's a good sign for the

sport that a guy who's on the training side of things is

thinking about how do we get more dollars into this thing?

And if he's thinking I'm willing to be somewhere on Saturday and

then on Sunday so that we get more handle, that's great.

Yeah, that's great. And it's someone who understands

the sport. And.

And I always want to pause on this show and acknowledge those

moments when we have them because frankly, I feel like we

have them a lot with people who know these are the things that

we need to do. And I think you're going to hear

some of that from Frank and from Eric in a minute here.

But any reactions to Brett? Yeah.

Well, kind of building off your point there, I feel like we in

the US sometimes are kind of the outlier and we're just so used

to like, you know, having 10 tracks, 10 plus tracks running

on the same day, running at the same time, you know, all, all

holding their, you know, their big stakes race on the same day.

I mean, a few months ago, I went out to Abu Dhabi for the

Presidents Cup back in, back in December and you know, they got

5 or 6 tracks out there in the UAE and they wrote they never

have to open on the same day. It rotates throughout the week

which track is open. It's giving each track kind of

their chance in the spotlight. You see that too, where you

know, some of these tracks, like you think about how in the US

we're running on the turf every single day for a couple races.

But like you got to constantly kind of watch the grass over in

Europe. You're looking at where, you

know, kind of they run one race one day here, one day there and

it gives the track kind of time to bounce back.

So you can run, you know, the 678 races in one day on the turf

course over there. Cuz it'll have a couple days to

bounce back before it comes back around.

And they're smart enough to go to other tracks like

Wolverhampton and stuff that are largely synthetic tracks.

Yeah, right. So they literally give everybody

a day off when they go to places like Wolverham, Hampton,

whatever. I'm using more Hampton as an

example but like those kinds of places and they give the tracks

that actual full day off that way.

Yeah. And so we're kind of like the

outlier sometimes with that where we have everything kind of

loaded onto the same days versus a lot of these other countries

or areas of the world. A lot of times I kind of have

their race tracks kind of more spread out.

They might still have like, you know, some.

And the load? We're about to ask Belmont, and

what we're asking Santa Anita to do is way more than historically

these tracks have been doing. I mean, like, just way more.

And so it is, it's it's own. I mean, like, I think people in

Kentucky don't realize how spoiled we are that Churchill

can just kick to Ellis. Yeah.

Or just kick the turf way. And they're both excellent,

right. Or kick to Kentucky knowledge or

something. That's an.

Example, like where you, if you're going to break it down

state by state, where we never have two tracks open at the same

time or we're always kind of rotating through behind to get

each track their chance at, at the spotlight here.

Now that gets, you know, kind of mixed up when you then include

all the other states, but you kind of see that as being kind

of, you know, a good thing that really helps Kentucky out just

rotating through our 5 tracks here.

So to answer your question, yes, I think it was a great move

putting the Rebel on Sunday, kind of helping to spread that

out a little bit. Give give people the opportunity

to really focus on, you know, this track, whether it be

Gulfstream or Aqueduct on Saturday, then you can really

kind of focus in on Oakland on Sunday with the big cards that

they had. I think that was a good move.

It was something that kind of happened by accident last year

because of the weather and Hot Springs where they kind of had

to run on a Sunday. And I saw the results and I

like, oh, that actually kind of seems like a good idea.

Maybe we should do that again. Speaking of Sunday, the the

Southwest class president, were you class president?

I was not no OK. I was.

And of course, do you wear shirts like this?

And you weren't. Class president.

That's true. I mean, no one has the

confidence to wear a shirt this ugly except for someone who won

a high school election. That means nothing.

Now you understand me. No one, only people like me.

The class president holds off silent tactic.

And here's what's amazing is in real time, the race in my eye

was more of a margin than in the final time because technically

class president won the race by .01 seconds.

But in real time, Matt Jennerman, by the way, who got

the call right, but just called it confidently because even to

him, like it was to me, it was very obvious he won.

Were you? Did you know that about the

final time before right now? No, I didn't realize that about

the. It didn't seem that close, did

it? I will say that I was surprised

when I read the chart at 1st and saw that they'd given him a nose

victory instead of a head victory because I right from the

angle. You had the same exact reaction

to me, yes. OK.

I wasn't exactly right on the wire.

I was pretty close to it. I was just a little bit before

it. It looked like a clear head for

my angle. I hate it.

So yeah, to see see the time being that close, I guess Silent

Tactic really got a good Bob there.

That's obviously what it is, but also, I mean he was always

within about a half second. So this is very different than

the last run where he was just dead last by 100,000 legs.

He was considerably close to this.

He really impressed me yesterday and I, I actually, I'm coming

out of the Rebel feeling better about Simon.

Tech, I think that's a reasonable.

Type because he in the southwest, you know, he dropped

out to the back and then he just made that one run.

I, I mentioned it when we talked to Brad, it was kind of weird

how they entered that first turn where there were seven horses

stacked across the track. And because of that, since he

was in the back, it allowed him to kind of just instinctively

move up in the field a little bit more just because everybody

else had to, you know, slow down and cut over and he was just

already there. So he was able to gain a couple

spots off of that. And he was racing in mid pack a

little bit closer than he had been last time.

And I think he around the far turn, Christian Torres kind of

had to wait a little bit to get some room because strategic risk

was coming up outside of him. And he was able to sit and then

he was able to still make that run.

And I kind of think if he didn't have that moment where he had to

sit and wait, right? If he could have sat back,

launched and then caught class president by surprise and shot

past him instead of, you know, kind of pausing and having to

reap. How much you thought he was

gonna pass him this stretch? I did too, right.

Yeah, That's why. That's why.

Only thing I'll push back on that you just said because I

largely agree with you. I think class president gets

credit for reacting the way he did.

Oh, he. Definitely does.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, like a lot of

credit. For that he he came back and.

Can I get Johnny Dee? Yeah, like a lot to like.

Yeah, I mean, he dug in. So I'm not taking anything away

from class president, but you know, had silent tactic had more

momentum by the time he got to that point, it could have been

an instance where he just kind of shot shot ahead and there

wasn't really an opportunity for class president to come back

versus silent tactic, you know, had been kind of sitting there

and wasn't necessarily at the same speed or the same momentum

he could have been at that point.

That's what I'm saying there. But yeah, class president, when

you're looking ahead toward the Derby, you want to see a horse

that has that fight and them has the ability to, you know, kind

of show that determination fight off other horses.

And he also, he took it to litmus test fairly early.

I returned there too. And not only.

Did he did the work? Andy did the work early.

Andy did the work late. Exactly.

And there's nothing to be at that time.

This early in the year usually aren't like that.

Exactly. By the way, good weekend for

Uncle Moe. Yeah, it's what we talked about

there. No, but like it like like class

president here on time girl is is by is out of excuse me, an

Uncle MO Dam. And like it's just a a good

weekend for him. And it's one of those names like

I just I feel like you're just I don't I don't know where it

went. Just just bad luck, I think

mostly. But it was a really, really good

weekend for for Uncle MO Brad Cox has texted me.

Should we read that on air? Depends on what it is.

I'm not too bad, thank you. I think if I put that quote out

of out of context on Twitter, you stick to hosting radio and

I'll stick to to trading horses, it would look terrible.

Yes. But it's also just funny.

I mean, it's also just a great line.

Exactly. I, I'm very close to putting

that on on Twitter. It's just a.

An out of. I'm going to start using that

trade horses. The quote of the day All right,

so we've gone through the 2 Southern preps, if you will.

And then there was New York City.

I talked to Bobby Hauled on the Horse Racing Happy Hour on

Thursday and we talked through this race and he said something

very interesting about Iron Hunter, which was he was

training so well that Chad Brown was like, I just got to get this

horse on the track, OK. And that's why he made his debut

when he did. They actually weren't wanting to

do that at that point. But he goes ahead and he wins

his debut. He gets a 90 plus buyer as part

of that, whatever else. OK, so he comes back in this

race after some time off. And the reason I asked Brad

about the timing with Commandment, Hey, are you doing

this? So he's third up in the Derby or

whatever. He's like, Nah, that's not what

it is. Iron Otter I think is exactly

what they're doing because he breaks his maid in December and

they could have brought him back in January if they wanted to in

allowance, company, whatever. Now I think this was the one

mile spot. He's super talented.

This one always made sense and so that way it makes a fair

amount of sense what I do like about his race here.

I'm fascinated by this kid, by this horse.

We'll call him again. I was just hosting.

No, he's a kid. He's only three years.

Old I was talking, I was hosting radio talking about basketball,

but. Even three years.

Old 90 minutes ago. So by Nyquist, blame Mare

distance not going to be an issue.

No, none at all. Fought like crazy in the stretch

of his second ever race. He's been on the bench for two

months. And we know Crown the Buckeye is

a good one during the horse. Too and Crown the Buckeye is a

competitive, hit the board kind of horse no matter where he

shows up. Ricardo's riding Ricardo Sanchez

Junior has been spectacular at Aqueduct.

All the things add up that Iron Honor actually had a really

important run on Saturday. Now, I, I, I have always

wondered young Sean, we talk about the preps and which ones

are good predictors of who's going to do well in the Derby,

right. So historically, the Bluegrass

is awesome because horses would just go run a Keeman and

probably like a week before the Derby and then come back and win

the Derby. OK, sometimes less than a week.

The Wood Memorial historically is a spectacular prep for the

Kentucky Derby, except that the last winner of the Wood Memorial

to win the Kentucky Derby is Pusache Pegasus.

In 2000, spectacular prep in the 19.

Hundreds. OK, but since then?

Since the turn, obviously with the emergence of Bafford out

West, you get the San Anita Derby is a very important one.

He sends good horses to Arkansas as well.

And then we think of the Florida Derby.

Those are like the three that we really key in on.

Ironically, for example, the Fairgrounds, great for the Oaks

Trail, not as great for the Derby Trail.

It just is what it is. I don't know why, it doesn't

kind of matter, but what I'm getting at with Iron Honor is I

think what we do because of that Fusaichi Pegasus stat is we

throw out the New York route is ever going to produce a good

horse and I, and I don't want to do that on this show.

I want to give an Iron Honor as much credit as we should for

winning that race the way that he did in his second start ever.

Sub 138 at Aqueduct is very fast over that surface.

All the things. I'm actually incredibly

intrigued by this horse and I'm very excited to see him in the

Wood Memorial in mile and eight. I think he's going to be great.

Yes, I think you know the last couple years, ever since they

switched the Gotham from the mile and 8th down to the mile,

it's been questionable because you know, 50 points the winner

that's running a one turn mile, it's a completely different.

We've asked this question about the Devota Dale for years, yeah.

Right. But it's a completely different

animal than you know, what the rest of the Derby preps at this

time of year are. And we've seen over the years

where the winner of the Gotham has the points but maybe decides

not to run because they don't run well in the Wood Memorial.

We've gotten all recently a lot of those one turn Miller type

horses winning the Gotham. This is probably the I think the

first time in a while, or at least kind of the major one,

where it feels like we actually have a horse who he was running

the one turn mile because he's progressing up the distance and

he's going to be good as the distances get up.

So I'm more hopeful for him coming out of the Gotham than

I've probably been in the Gotham winner in a long time because I

feel like he's won the Gotham building.

Yeah, I feel like he's one that's building up.

I think he's going to take a step forward about a mile and

8th and then can build into the Derby, which is something I feel

like we haven't necessarily seen coming out of the Gotham.

In recent years, both of the wood horses scratched out of the

Derby last year, so we didn't get to see them.

But there was a lot of frankly, I was very high at Rodriguez

coming out of the Wood just because he he had all the

trappings of a Baffert winner of the Derby.

He was willing to go out front rate, do work late.

I I just, there were a lot of things about him.

It was the best by speed figures.

It was the best Wood Memorial since Frosted.

I think a lot of Frosted if American Pharaoh doesn't exist

as a horse. I think we talked about Frosted

very differently because I think he wins at least one of those

classic races. The the part with this series

though and Poster of course scratches out as well.

Poster became a bit of a bus horse before he scratched before

the Derby. I wonder if maybe we're starting

not to do that because we are seeing horses like come out of

the Jeff Ruby Stakes and run really well in Kentucky Derby.

Like we just need to get over this stuff sometimes.

And so maybe as as analysts were actually doing a better job.

Yeah, at this. Point, I feel like it's not

necessarily as big of a concern where the horse is coming out of

because if the horse is going to run.

Well, and the Derby, they're going to run well.

Especially now that the points exist.

You're not. You're making decisions based

off of the points that are available now when you're

running these horses. Now, like you mentioned how

successful the Florida Derby has been historically, you know,

there's also an era where horses would run the Florida Derby in,

in March and then ship up, run in New York and then then go.

So you know, there there's a lot of overlap back if you go back

into ancient times. This is, and you're kind of, you

know what, you're doing a good job putting a bow on this and

we'll grab Frank and get him in. Here is so many of those horses

and horsemen that in the 1990s and 80s would have run at at the

Wood Memorial are now running in the Florida Derby.

Todd Pletcher would have been a more Wood Memorial guy 25 years

ago. Todd Pletcher.

Chad Brown would be a Wood memorial guy 25 years ago.

Now he's a bluegrass guy, right? Like this kind of stuff.

Well. You look at sovereignty last

year. Sovereignty would have been

through, and through you go. Back to the 80s and Sovereignty

is running in the Florida Derby in March, and he's running in

the Wood Memorial. So, you know, you're running in

both those races. So it's just that, yeah, it's

just that time where, you know, it seems like Pletcher and Chad

Brown, Bill Mott, you know, the guys who are for most of the

year. The Derby guys in New York.

Guys, they tend to keep their better horses down where it's

warm in Florida. We're not going to have

interruptions in the training and so all that yes and.

I'm not questioning it by the way.

It's just it is the trend period.

It just well. And you heard what Brad said

about Paradise and then Chad Brown said the same thing about

Iron Honor here as far as it's now the time of year where the

weather is hopefully going to be a little bit better in New York.

So since we've already should get them up there for a race now

they're going to stay there. So it's a matter of that as well

if I'm wanting to make sure that these top horses are not really

having interrupted training. And I think that a lot of times

leads to the top tier of the pleasure.

Brown Barnes staying South not or going end up ending up at

Keeneland rather than the Wood Memorial because I think I mean

the bluegrass is a grade one versus grade 2 on the Wood

Memorial. You'll get a horse like Paladin

on by Coolmore. He's going to run, he's going to

run the grade one rather than the grade 2.

So there's a couple of things like that.

But if you have a good horse like Iron Honor is here, I think

that's going to make the Wooden Memorial a very interesting race

and we'll see if. Maybe you mentioned Fusaichi

Pegasus, funny side was second coming out of there in 2003.

So I think he's the last one that participated in the wood

that won the Kentucky Derby. So we'll we'll see whether or

not Iron Honor or any of these other New York courses can put

an end to that. Last note out of the Gotham

Balboa up the track, The question in the in the Russell

barn, I have to imagine is have we peeked out on Balboa?

We'll put him on the Preakness trail, try to win the Tessio and

put Taj Mahal, who just won in Maryland, on in the Wood

Memorial. I think it's a real question for

the Russell barn because I think she's got two horses that could

run in the Preakness, in Taj Mahal and in Balboa.

I I think Brittany Russell wants a Derby starter.

I think so. I think it's really, and by the

way, she should want one. And according to Shawn Collins,

and I know, but she should want one.

And frankly, she's at that level now, whatever she has been for a

while. And so the, the, the, yeah, I,

I, I do wonder, I do wonder if it's a Taj Mahal that ends up

actually in the wood memorial out of her barn round.

I really liked his win last time.

You should like it. Yeah.

A bit of an iron miner kind of win over a mile one turn.

Laurel Park. Second time start ever.

Man forces to think about here. Let's bring in Frank Hanks,

though. There's our guy busy doing

conferences and talking, and he's got that beautiful library

behind him. Frank, how are you, man?

You doing all right? Doing well, Louis, how are you

and Sean? We're doing great.

Hey, you talked with the guy that I've gotten to know over

the last couple of years and Eric Hamelback.

We'll get to that in just a second, But the Derby preps over

the weekend. Did anyone in particular stand

out for Frank Inks? I mean, I'd like to say one of

them did, but I think four of them did.

I really liked both preps at Oakland and Gulfstream.

I'm not going to draw a line between any of those four of the

the top 2 finishers to each the Aqueduct winner, I think

probably still needs to progress speed figure wise, but he can

like he's he's an improving horse.

So as Brad Cox noted earlier, you want the horse that's on top

of his game going into the Derby.

So he he certainly has the opportunity to do that.

But boy, it was just a terrific weekend for the three-year old

series with two outcomes like that, just really exciting

races. Last week we talked to Byron

King about the Derby Dozen and kind of heard his thoughts on

how the three-year old class is shaking up.

Frank, I know you usually participate in the National

Thoroughbred Racing Association's polls.

For the three-year old poll. Who who are you kind of

considering as the top horses in the scrum?

You know, I haven't had to switch it all year.

I have Blade there on top early on, well after after Ned Toffee,

but just moved him up when Ned Toffee unfortunately came off

the trail and haven't had to touch it since.

Yeah, the horse is doing everything well and he's done

improving horse that that I'm always looking for.

So that's where I have it at the top just, but not a whole lot of

separation. I think it's a year you're going

to have to keep. I mean, they all are, but

really, you have to keep watching it for sure.

Oh, I totally agree with that last point.

Actually. This is a very developing class

for me because the very top of it noffee's out obviously,

right? That kind of stuff.

But it is very much a developing class and I'm I'm more, I'm more

unsettled ahead of the 100 point races than I remember in the

last couple of years. It feels like one of those years

where, you know, Paladin ends up winning by the Derby by 5

flanks. He wouldn't be shocked if a

horse ends up winning at 30 to one.

You'll probably look back and be like, oh, I can see why that

horse ended up being good enough to win the Derby.

So it's one of those years where it's like the top could end up

being very good, or we could end up getting that surprise winner

that you're going to look back on it and be like, oh, I should

have seen that coming. Noted a football referee.

Frank inks with us. He's got ACFP jacket and I like

that. I like that.

See a little football. Let's I asked Brad Cox to bring

UK basketball takes and he's like, bro, I don't watch the

team right now. Derby season.

I'm like, that's a bad job at you, Brad Cox.

How about that? I'll let you coach some

basketball. All right, Frank, you got to

talk with Eric Hamelback at the National HBPA conference this

week. What's the theme of the

conference and what was your conversation about?

Yeah, I'm, I'm heading to the HBAHBPA conference this week.

I'm looking forward to that. A lot of timely topics on the

agenda for sure. I mean, I, I don't know that

they have a theme. I think I think it's telling

though, that the person delivering the keynote address

is Everett Dobson, who's the chairman of the Jockey Club.

I mean, for those, some of your listeners might not follow all

the insurance and outs of the industry, but the Jockey Club

has been a big supporter of HEISA.

The national HBPA believes that HEIS is not constitutional and

they have some other problems with it and they've been

fighting it in court ever since it came to be.

So the there are two organizations that have been at

loggerheads over that, but there's other there's plenty of

other issues that they have agreement on essentially grown

the sport and the big picture issues there.

So I think it's really good to see those two organizations have

some level of agreement and it seems to be there with with this

decision to have Everett is a keynote and I'm interested to

see how that plays out. Beyond that, one of the panels

is going to be on prediction markets, which I've been writing

quite a bit about in dollars and cents.

It's, you know, shot. Across the bow from from

Churchill Downs, essentially saying don't, don't try to put

the Derby on those things. So we've we've seen horse racing

react to it, yeah. Yeah, I mean, international

experts said last year's Triple Crown saw $1.2 million wagered

through these prediction markets.

And the problem is they don't benefit racing at all.

None of that money goes to racing.

So obviously that's not something the industry favors

and wants to put a stop to it. Or if they want to come up with

a plan of how this would benefit racing, I think of course that

would be on the table as well. But you know, it's sports.

Sports wagering is also opposed to it.

And you can understand why. There was a huge effort to get

sports wagering in each of the states where it exists.

And now all of a sudden you have this player that's essentially

just taking these sports wagers without state regulation.

But but the one difference there is if the sports themselves

don't benefit from sports wagering, like baseball doesn't

get money every time somebody bets on the Dodgers, but racing

does. Like that's the business model

in racing. So it's really especially

important to protect the paramutual product that the

licensed products that are out there.

So yeah, racing is very big. It's good to see that racing's

formulating a plan on how they're going to ensure this

doesn't happen, that the good news is the Interstate Horse

Racing Act pretty clearly defines the, you know, that you

have to have agreements in place to be a legal form of wagering

on horse racing. So I think that's probably the

biggest tool in the toolbox and you'll hear what the what they

have to say about that this week.

Yeah, it'll be an interesting conversation.

I was. I was very encouraged by the

way, Frank, when I heard Brad just earlier in the episode say,

yeah, I like the Saturday, Sunday thing for Handle too,

right? Like he's thinking about the

gambling side of it as well, which I appreciate.

Yeah. I mean that there's some

potential there and I think the industry needs to learn figure

out how to market that because when you look at the numbers

Saturday, far and away, no question it's the biggest handle

driver, But maybe maybe you could I mean we've seen it

Breeders' Cup in Derby where you have these two day bats, Oaks

Derby bats, that type of thing. So maybe if you start tying some

of the three-year old races together and there some are on

Saturday and some are Sunday, more people will TuneIn on

Sunday. I I think it's you can really do

it in the spring for sure. I don't think you want to take

on the NFL on Sundays in the fall and winter, but right now,

yeah, let's you know, February is about the deadest month for

every other sport, March and this but but Even so, I I think

the spring 3 year old races, I think there's a real opportunity

there that to have some of these races on Sunday.

Little Gotham, Fountain of youth, Rebel Pick three.

Yeah, be fun. Would you have hit it?

And. And you?

Know and maybe until we see that Sunday take off a little bit

maybe you take turns on who goes on Sunday and develop that.

But yeah, it's a it's a great idea.

I, I think, I think there's potential there for that idea

all. Right.

So this is already recorded, Frank, we're going to play your

conversation with Eric anything before we hear this that might

help us ahead of ahead of time. No, I think, I think the two

topics we cover are Everett and prediction markets.

So should be ready to go. All right.

Well, Frank, appreciate it very much.

Friend of the show Eric Hamelback with friend of the

show Frank Haxt. Here with Eric Hamelback, CEO of

the National HPPA Big Week coming up.

Right, Eric? Absolutely, absolutely, Frank.

Yeah, We are very excited to be down at Oakland Park at Hot

Springs, AR with our upcoming conference.

I'm very excited to get there. I I tell most people that know

me pretty well. Oak Lawn has been my favorite

track since I was a kid. So growing up in North Louisiana

and spending a lot of time working at Oak Lawn, I love that

facility and to see the way the, the state and the community have

really rallied around that and they've created a very special

market there. And, and it's, it's an honor to

be that back with Mr. Sella and, and that group.

So we're happy, happy to be there and looking forward to it.

Yeah. So that it's the national HBPA

conference events are running from Tuesday evening with a

welcome reception through Saturday, which I think are some

more organizational meetings. But I know Blood Horse, we will

be covering some really interesting panels this year on

Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. I went to this, I had Oak Lawn a

few years ago. It's really become a nice venue

for these types of events, hasn't it?

It really has. And I, I do want to give

certainly credit to the University of Arizona and

obviously the symposium, because in many times, I think our

conferences get to work a little bit symbiotically because, you

know, as they're in, as we, we end the year, so to speak with

their conference, But you know, in a relatively short period of

time from the 1st of December now to the 1st of March, you

know, things happen quickly. And so a lot of times the topics

may be similar, such as the one we're going to have on predict

predictive market wagering, but ours is going to be a little bit

more advanced. So again, I think it's, it's a,

it's become a great conference. And, and I'm not just saying

that because we put it on, but we have heard that from a lot of

people, you know, that that comment to us on, on how much

they appreciate the conference and the content.

And they have the option of just staying at the hotel right

there. That's that makes it a lot

easier for sure. You can get all your meals at

the casino restaurants. You can never leave there for a

whole week and and. I can promise you I will not set

foot outside at least until maybe after the races on

Saturday the 7th. Yeah, get a little sunshine now,

Eric, so I'll have a preview up at bloodhorse.com.

We, we actually already had some previews too.

So, so the look, look at all the interesting panels coming up,

just some of the ones that caught my eye.

First of all, on on Wednesday, the keynote from Jockey Club

chairman Everett Dobson. How did that all come together?

Well, I think that when you look at how racing is right now and,

and obviously your, your listeners know that there's

conflict at times in the industry, but the reality is we

all want to work and collaborate and to get, you know, get along,

so to speak, but really to collaborate and do what's best

for the industry. And so it's, there's no

mistaking the fact that, you know, our organization has, you

know, currently in some litigation with the Horse racing

Integrity and Safety Act. But again, that's, that's set

aside. There's still a lot of work to

be done. And I personally have known

Everett for quite some time with my time at Adena Springs, the

general manager, he was a big supporter of Awesome again.

So I've known him outside of, you know, the chair of the

Jockey Club and really respect and like Everett and understand

his mentality. And I, I believe that he and I

are aligned on many things within the industry.

And so this was my opportunity to really kind of wave a big

flag and say, guys, you know, we all want to work together.

And this individual, in particular, I think Everett

Dobson is, is going to be a person who can help bring

everything together. And so I really wanted to kind

of reach out and talk to him about it.

And it, you know, it was a, we had a, we met at the January

sales, I think at 24. And then all of a sudden, you

know, we kind of Fast forward to having different conversations

before he really took the reins. And then it just really fed into

it. And, and he said right away,

Frank, he, he, he didn't miss a beat.

He said, absolutely, I'd love to do that.

So that that made me feel good that it wasn't something he had

to, you know, sit and think on for a few days.

But he said right away. Yeah, that's terrific.

I mean, and obviously Blood Horse and other outlets have

covered the Jockey Club's been a big supporter of HAISA National,

HBPA has had concerns constitutionally about it and

beyond. So that continues to play out.

But both groups and when push comes to shove, there's still a

lot of common ground on on other. 100 percent, 100% and,

and you, you know, you, you see the, the, the, the changes that

have come about have been positive.

So, no, I, I think, you know, there are issues that are still

going to change, you know, maybe plus and minus, but the reality

is, you know, we're here to work together and, and do what's

right. The litigation will figure

itself out. But right now we, we've got a

regulatory body and we need to do what's best.

I need to do what's best for the horsemen and and we need to

regulate this industry properly. I know you've always made an

effort to be on keynote speakers, but even on the panels

to have people that you may or may not agree with.

Yeah. Why is it important to have that

discussion as an industry? Absolutely, absolutely.

I mean, at the end of the day, I tried very hard to put on a

forum that's going to be educational, you know, whether

it's educating folks that are on my board to another side or vice

versa. So you know, for me as a tool,

the conference is a tool to help everybody kind of facilitate.

This isn't just an HBPA conference obviously that's

predominantly HVPA board members, but we get

commissioners, we certainly get you know, I have several THA

board members and executive directors that are coming.

This is this conference is for everybody and it is from a

horseman's perspective. But you know, I think there is

content for everybody to learn about from, from whatever side

you're on. Yeah.

So one of the panels on Thursday that definitely caught my eye is

the predict emerging prediction markets, which is a big story in

the industry. It's a big story beyond the

industry. I mean, 60 minutes to the whole

segment on it recently, I think I've written about 6 columns

already on dollars and cents and and everything comes up so

quickly these days. It's like you don't get much

warning and all sudden, all sudden hear these.

To me, it's a new form of wagering and it's potentially

has the potential of taking away dollars from horse racing.

What were the reasons you thought it was important to have

this discussion? So I actually go all the way

back to the summer of 2024. Nickel, geez.

As you know, National Council, Legislative gaming states, I've

really become a fan of their conference from the gaming side

and the regulatory side. And that was really the first

time I'd heard of it. And there was a panel on it.

It was pretty mellow, more of an introductory, but it was, it was

already well broke out of the gates and headed back.

Then Fast forward to summer of 2025, they did another panel

where it started talking at that point about all the litigation

that was hitting. And so I really began to think

about it and then I talked to industry professionals that I

know that are kind of on that, that that's the wagering side,

in particular Michelle Fisher with sis and really started to

educate myself about it and learn that, you know, they're,

they're, they're basically going around anything that is states

rights and they're saying that they're federal.

And so as my head began to spin, I'm thinking in a very similar

vein that I was cautious when sports wagering hit.

You know, how are these wagers, as you and I call them, they

call them contracts, but how are these wagers going to come into

play if and when which they've already dipped their toe in, but

if and when it hits horse racing?

And so they're not acting like they have to have a revenue

sharing contract with the horsemen or even a host fee.

That would be from a racetrack to where they gather their

information. And even to the point where

they're trying to purposely go around the, the, the verbiage of

a wager and call it a contract. I mean, they're really trying to

fight that narrative. But it is a wager, especially

when you look at the, the way they put parlays together it

it's a wager. You know, I I they can say

whatever they want and I doubt they even believe it themselves.

But when I then heard course, like I said, giving shout out to

Arizona, the symposium did a a piece on it.

Michelle was the moderator there.

But then what really struck me was Dennis Drazen, whom I

respect immensely, you know, bringing the fight he did to get

sports wagering across the country and to have it, lo and

behold, states rights, right? And so him talking about the

defense that may be necessary utilizing the Interstate Horse

Racing Act really threw my ears up and said, OK, this, this is

something horseman better pay attention to.

And if you look at it, Frank, well, I'm I'm not an attorney,

you know, I'm not an attorney. But when you look at it, we as

horsemen or let's just say the horse racing industry.

We're right now I would say the only ones that really have a

defense against them, and that's because of the Interstate Horse

Racing Act. And so I had several

conversations with Mr. Drazen kind of leading into the

decision. He unfortunately can't be at the

conference live because he teaches a law class right now,

but he's going to be there in Zoom.

But it was really him and, and the piece that he wrote that

kind of got me thinking. We, we better dig into this a

little bit deeper, not just educate people on what it is,

but but horsemen need to be aware of it and, and make sure

we understand that we, we could have a fight on our hands or,

you know, maybe we all come together and there's something

that can be done together. Yeah.

And listen to Churchill Downs Incorporated's conference call

with investors and analysts yesterday.

And Bill, it was great here. And Bill Karstanden said, hey,

this is licensed content from horse racing.

And that's where racing's a little bit different even from a

sport wagering. It's not like baseball or

football makes any money off of those wagers.

They maybe increases interest or what have you.

The horse racing, this is our business.

This is. What makes it?

So it's interesting that the licensing, the International,

the Interstate Horse Racing Act, the, the, I think these will be

important tools for horse racing that to fend off this threat.

I do too. I totally agree, totally agree.

But you know, as, as, as we all know, litigation takes time and

it takes a ton of money. And obviously right now when you

look at calci, just a loan or polymarket, they've got a lot of

money. They've got a lot of attorneys

wrapped up already so that it's not just as easy as throwing

down a lawsuit anymore, but I think we've got to be ready.

We've got to be prepared. For sure.

And then also Thursday, I think segment everyone's looking

forward to is Jinx Fires is going to be honored as a living

legend, just a really popular selection there.

Just how did that come together? What, what are you looking

forward to about that? So Jinx is, you know, he's an

icon in and of itself and and you know, maybe a lot of folks

don't know him, you know, as a as a household name, like I

would be in from Louisiana. But growing up, you know, around

him and seeing what he did and then go to his Derby with Arch

arch, Arch, he's just always been that consummate horseman

that everybody looks to for advice.

Everybody looks to for knowledge.

And he's always there for you. And and he, you know, maybe

doesn't have the same accolades from wins as a Wayne Lucas.

But when you look at that stature, that's how many people

see Jinx fires as well. Just just an honest horseman

does things the right way and is there to to give his knowledge

away. You just got to ask and, and so,

you know, and for me, he was one of the inspirations for me to

play polo. So he's a big polo player back

in the day. And and so, you know, it's,

it's, it's an honor for me to to, to give that and it, and it

comes about just to answer that part of the question.

Typically we look to where we are with the conference to honor

somebody and then that's how the the name starts swirling around

and, and Jinx, quite frankly, was the only name that hit the

board on this. One wow.

Yeah, I mean, there's there are so and and it's it'll be great

to honor Jinx, but I mean, there are so many important horsemen

regionally and even the specific tracks that they deserve to be

celebrated because it really is what makes racing go on a lot of

levels. Absolutely.

And, and Judge Walmsley, the president of the HVPA there in

Arkansas, he was a living legend recipient last last time we were

in Iowa, Alan Poindexter. So I mean, again, names that may

be familiar to those of us really in the industry, but

maybe not that highlight name for those outside the industry.

We we want to make sure they know how appreciated they are

within the industry. That's terrific.

For those who can't make it out to Hot Springs this week, will

there be some options to maybe see these panels on video down

the line or. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely

Frank. We, what we do is we, we film

every panel. And honestly, the only reason I

don't do it live is just it's a very expensive process.

So, so we film all the panels and then and then Dennis Blake

is great once, once the conference is done, he goes

through, cuts them up and puts them on YouTube and then we post

them to our website. We've been pretty good about

blasting out an e-mail at least to our distribution list when

they're ready. And then you just go to our

conference toggle and then you can go through and actually all

the conferences that are mostly still up there now and you'll be

able to see the panels. The only reason a panel wouldn't

be up there is if something were to happen with the with the the

video at the time, but other than that, each panel will be up

there. That's great.

And blood blood horses planning quite a few stories and and

video coverage as well. So we hope everyone takes

advantage of that and I'm looking forward to getting the

Hot Springs on Tuesday. Excellent, excellent.

Go to the kitchen. They got the best, best French

French toast in the in the world in the world.

I'm all for that sounds. Good.

Thank you, Frank. Appreciate it.

Thanks. Eric Camelback joining us here

on the program once again from the National HBPA.

Good luck to them at Oaklawn at their conference.

You ran into him yesterday and the only reaction I have to all

of this, Sean, is I the you know how I gave you a hard time

because I think the people that post where they're, they're

where they were conceived in their Twitter bio or something

like you're a Pennsylvania bred. Ashley Mayolew needs everybody

to know she's in New York bred like this kind of stuff, right?

How much it bothers me, right. OK, the how do we grow the sport

conversation bothers me as much as anything in my life.

And I mean, anything the weather, finances, my clothes,

like anything is the handling brand of that.

Just so I know. I don't even try.

Dude, do you know how you grow the sport?

You have conversations with smart people who actually make

the decisions. And so every Dobson being at

this thing is a necessity. It's this is what we should be

doing. Hi.

We disagree with you about this. Yeah, we disagree with you.

Let's get together and look at the facts and figure it out.

Cool. Yep.

I I I'm sorry. Since what is that bad?

It's not. Oh, OK, cool.

Let's keep doing it then. Whoever these people are.

I'm Lou Irbone. I support this message.

How's Eric doing? He's doing great.

Yeah, I ran into him yesterday at Oaklawn at the Rebel and very

excited to for the week to get started.

He got there as he mentioned the Frank there, he's probably not

going to get out of the hotel for the entirety of the

conference talk. So he was getting his sunshine

in to watch, watch some racing during the week.

So very excited to be at Oaklawn.

Seems like a great place to to have something like that for

sure. Well, they're honoring Jinx

Fires, who will get the National HBPA Lifetime Achievement Award.

He's an Arkansas horseman. It's perfect that he's getting

the award there. I interviewed him a about a

month ago and, and I asked him because, you know, we've got we,

we got, we got spoiled here. The Wayne Lucas thing.

You heard Brad talk about it just like the how much he was

just omnipresent at Churchill that, that where the barn was

situated, all the stuff. And so I asked Jinx because he's

85. I was like, you keep going and

Jinx is he's gonna go take care of his wife.

Time to retire, go take care of his wife.

And you know what? Darn right.

What a nice guy. Just a great horseman.

I even, you know, I did the thing where, hey, I've got a

quote from another horseman in Arkansas who said that's what

you are. You're a horseman.

He goes greatest compliment I could get.

So Congrats to jinx fires. I hope he has a great time gets

to have all his family in for the for the award ceremony and

all that there at the national HBPA Congress and again,

comprehensive. Excuse me, but I just yes, let's

all get in the same room to talk to one another.

Being parochial right now is not going to work.

It's not going to work. There's nothing about the sport

right now where you can go take your ball and go home.

Nothing about horse racing that way.

So let's figure it out. Speaking of horse racing, there

are Derby preps this weekend. You will be at another Derby

prep this weekend, so this is your life.

I actually I did the. I did the math when I was on.

The plane the other day. So once we, once we.

By the way, I have a big bone to pick with you too, because we

have a major issue with what happened on Saturday.

Go ahead. Well, once we got a problem.

With this pocket. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know what this Yeah, that's a big problem, but once,

once I check off the San Felipe this weekend out of the 36

current Kentucky prep races in the US.

Can I guess? How many have I been to at least

once at some point in my life of the.

Current out of your Life OK I thought this year I wasn't going

to I was going to go with 9 this year I mean, I think that's

realistic Iroquois St. Sound I've done the Iroquois

breeders, the street sense, the Breeders cup juvenile the.

Kentucky Jockey Club the Jerome the.

I keep thinking about. I keep thinking about the

Leonidas, not an actual preparation.

The Holy Bowl, the Southwest, the Battaglia, the Fountain of

the Youth, the rebels. So this will be my. 12 out of

third. It'll be my 12.

You were. Led to 1/3 of the North American

Derby, Yes. But that's that's interesting.

Yeah, I've been to lifetime. I've been to 26th of after the

San Felipe, I will have been to 26th of the current 36th prep

races. So I got I got some work to do

out in California. I've got some work to do down in

Louisiana. I got to get to Sunland Park

next year and the Florida Derby, which might, might be this year.

I'm still debating that. But by the.

Way I'm going to make a a sacrilege, kind of just a

sacrilege. Just kind of comment on Saturday

about what day it is. Killer Mile, that's not.

Bad. Not anymore, got downgraded.

To Grade 2. But you know about the killer

mile. It's not big that day.

Oh, man, I can't wait to get out there.

Who are you looking forward to this weekend?

There are a lot, a lot of candidates for that.

Because in a weird way, the best horse on Saturday might be

running in Florida. Not at, not at, not at, not in

the San Felipe. That's that's on the table at

least with Renegade, right? Or with Further Ado.

Yeah, I if either of those guys show up or both in Tempe Derby,

we're talking about a pair of series.

Series. Don't forget about Further Ado

coming out of his Kentucky Jockey Club win.

I think he's still I Byron will release his Derby Dozen tomorrow

and we'll see how this past weekend has impacted it.

But Further Ado was his number 2 on the list.

Fine Paladin. So we'll see what he's made of

this weekend. I'm most excited for the race

that we're going to to see so happy in the San Felipe and see

him stretch out around 2 turns. But I know we talked to Mike

Smith briefly about it 2 episodes ago.

It seems like MM seems confident based off the way that he's

finished his races, especially in the San Vicente, that he's

going to be able to handle the stretch out in distance.

We mentioned how he blame OS Mike won.

This is a grandson of blame for for the damn so cunning.

And so we'll see whether or not Blaine's going to end up

getting. That was a really good job, by

the way. Yes.

Bringing that up at the end, that was a very good job of me.

Everyone forgets in the run happy line.

He's a son of Super Saber. Yeah, Kentucky Derby runner.

People forget, I think because we, we so associate him with, by

the way, very high level sprinting and he was great.

And Mike made the point they really only gave him the chance

to stretch out once and that that was it.

So. Who knows, right, And so wit's

so happy and you get, like you said, blame on the damn side.

It is it is interesting as he progresses and where he's going

to be because obviously we see him in San Vicente.

He's going to stretch out here as you mentioned, but we're

going to potentially see Brant Potente, these kinds of horses.

Potente, of course, the powerful maiden winner just recently son

of it to Mischief. Awesome again on the damn side.

Yes, yeah, he's coming out of that maiden win on January 31st.

It looks like Baffert might be trying to pull justify here get

get him on the Derby trail kind of quick and excited to see him

branch the one that I'm I don't I don't know what to think of

him coming out of the the Breeders Cup Juvenile has not

been that great coming out of it and we just saw like this. 10

off he's a bomb. Is that what you're saying?

Well, gosh, why would you say that?

I'm all. These necessarily.

Frank games this season. But sheesh, I will say my belief

that Ted Nafi was head and shoulders over the rest of the

group at this like he definitely was in November.

I don't know if he still would be now that we're seeing some of

these prep races. I don't think witness Tess got

the trip that is best for him being on the lead.

I think he needs to be a little further back and make just kind

of that one run at the end. But I mean, they both class

president and Silent tactic handled him kind of easily down

the stretch there. And we haven't really seen now

Mr. AP off the Derby trail. So we didn't get to see him run

back. We didn't get to see Ted Nafi

run back. But the rest of the Juvenile

just really hasn't been performing as well.

And so I'm wondering if maybe this is going to be one of those

years where we can kind of put the 2 year old season behind us

and focus on these horses that are kind of starting to pop up

now, the names that we're starting to hear now.

How much Brent was sold for? 3,000,000 there, 3,000,000 yeah,

so the price tag will argue with me and I'm sure he's now gonna

go win by 7 lengths on Saturday. He was really good.

The by the way, it was great. Just legit great.

But it is one of those. Questions that you have.

I'm sure he's gonna take a lot of money.

I'm sure he's gonna be the favorite come race time.

And Pratt on a Saturday and say that he'd of course he's going

to get money. You know, for me personally,

this would be one of those times where I try to beat him because

I I think some of these you look at if so happy can stretch out,

if potente can be good and stretch out as well.

I think it's not it's not a hand me race for Brant.

And so I'm excited to see. I think it's going to be a

competitive run on Saturday. You know you.

Just root for the underdog. You just want the son of run

happy to beat up on an into mischief and on a gun runner.

That's all this is, I think. I would not complain about that.

That'd be kind of cool. It also would offer us, if so

happy were to win here and then let's say Baffert's able to

rebound and win the San Diego Derby would give us multiple

West Coast runners that we haven't had like a like a trio

in a while. Yeah, of Santa Anita starters in

the Kentucky Derby. It's real chance of that this

year, I think just because of who's skipping which races in

Trepito. Probably not going to run this

Saturday. That kind of stuff.

He'll be waiting in the wings, right?

That kind of stuff. So like Derby, yeah, there's

enough out West that by the time we get through Saturday and then

we get into the Santa Anita Derby itself, I think we're

going to be looking at a potential of three, maybe even 4

sanitator sort of starters in the Kentucky Derby, which I

welcome, by the way. It's, like I said, a great

predictor for success. Thinking of that, we kind of we

kind of mentioned the different state thing earlier.

We were talking about the wood at this point, Which Which?

Yeah, which area of? Circuit would you say is the

looking the strongest at the moment?

I don't Tampa and Gulfstream aren't in the same one, but I.

Would I would count that OK the the Gulfstream Horsemen are

sending horses over to Tampa. If you said Louis, you can have

the Gulfstream and Tampa horses or the field.

I might take the Tampa and the Gulfstream horses.

I would agree with that. OK, The only, I mean, Paladin's

the one that's kind of sticking out, no doubt about, you know,

being although where do you put him?

New York, Louisiana, Kentucky, which.

One, I don't know which one. He's not a Florida horse though.

That 1 I think. He's he's the Notre Dame of

this. He's just an independent.

He's gone, gone everywhere. So he's independent from all the

other conferences right now. I'll tell you that the Notre

Dame thing's really good. Brooke Smith is kind of the

Notre Dame of called, of horse racing where he just, he,

everybody likes Brooke Smith, right?

Everybody kind of likes Notre Dame.

Everybody. Doesn't.

I don't know about that. The only thing I see on Twitter

makes it sound like nobody likes Notre Dame.

So. Weird, weird nationwide

following just like Brooke Smith.

Would that be great if we found out Brooke Smith just had a like

a nationwide sort of random following?

Oop, he's got to, right? Yeah, Why not be spectacular?

We're all just. Jealous there, I think.

Except for you, I'm greater. You're just jealous of.

Everyone, yes. Oh man, so you and I fly

Thursday. Are you terrified or excited to

sit next to me for four hours on a?

Plane Oh, you booked our seats next to each other?

No, I didn't actually believe it or not.

No, Maybe we should film the show.

I got a no pro for this trip. Are we going to make all of our?

Should I just strap it to this hat and walk through airports

and wave at kids and see what happens?

It's just random old ladies like.

How mad, how mad would the rest of the plane be if we, just for

an hour, just recorded the show was?

We're flying. Like crying babies are better

than Blood Horse Monday, you know, like whatever.

Like they're yelling, you know what you got to do to advertise,

you know? Stop talking about Brant Brant.

Oh man. It would be great though,

actually, if we got on the plane, we're doing the show and

there's like 4 guys in front of us, is that the blood?

That would be good. Is that?

No, the best part would be if we were in two seats and then like

we had whoever won. Is sitting in the other seats so

we can. Just do the interview right

there. Something tells me we wouldn't

be in the same seating class. Can.

I tell you what I'm most excited about this weekend.

Yes, I have only ever been to Santa Anita and Del Mar for the

Breeders Cup. Same.

I have never been to Santa Anita on just one of their big

weekends. And I'm just excited to be there

for their stuff, just for their their races right there, like

the local Arcadia, Pasadena, LA crowd, whatever.

And I wanted to give a shout out by the way, in their PR

publicity, whatever they call it these days, a woman named

Jasmine Torres has been like super helpful with everything.

So shout out to Jasmine for getting us all set up for dinner

this weekend. Yeah, I know we're talking a lot

about the San Felipe, but just for me as a horse racing, I've

never seen the thing either, right?

Seeing the sand. Handicap on Saturday is going to

be. Going to be a really cool thing

for me. Such a historic race you think

all the way back to the days of Sea Biscuit and how important

this race is and sounds like we might even have Skippy long

stock to be showing up for them. That's exactly right.

So I'm, I'm, I'm very obviously the San Felipe, me being the

Derby fan, that's gonna excite me a lot.

But I I'm actually very, very excited for the same to.

See the same big cap in? Person, I totally agree.

By the way, Skippy's one of those horses that we used to get

in the big cap. Yep, right.

Older 7 year old still running winning races.

We're gonna ship out to LA for the big cap.

Yeah, Great. Good, good.

Thank you. Sappy.

Yes. Let's go keep it going.

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