BloodHorse Monday 4/21/25 | Mike Smith

I guess only three days left at Keeneland.

You know what time it is. It's Blood Horse Monday.

Start your week off right. His name is Sean.

I'm Louis. Thanks again for joining us here

on the Blood Horse Podcast Network.

So, so glad to have you in Sean. It is wake up with the first

number of your alarm clock as a four season.

How are you, my friend? How you doing?

How long have you been awake today?

You got to be at least 10 hours today.

Well, not quite there. We're getting there.

Well, actually, I guess we are doing right about there.

But yeah, I woke up at 4:15 this morning, as I have almost every

morning for the last two weeks. Got into Churchill Downs at 5:15

and. It's amazing.

Fall asleep on you. Don't be.

Surprised I'm I'm very unoffended you can you can

imagine when you do show up at the 5515 and there are already a

couple 1000 people there. There's nothing that nothing

more motivating than the backside of a of a track during

a a busy time of season. They.

Do it all year long. I can do it for one month, yeah.

Boom, this, this part, yes, people always, oh, your Derby

season like I'm I'm good. Like I'm, I'm OK.

You know, I, I can, I can get up early for a, a little bit.

A man who gets up early quite a bit is Hall of Famer.

He's the jockey Mike Smith. So glad to welcome him in here

to Blood Horse Monday. Mike, how are you, my friend?

And what where are you? Look at you man.

I'm actually in the gym, I found a little quiet room to to speak

into so we can talk guys. Thanks for having me on, I

appreciate it. No, no, no, it's definitely our

pleasure. Rodriguez, of course, will be

Mike's mouth next week in the Kentucky Derby.

We'll go back to Aqueduct. But before that, of course, one

of the things we love to do on this show is celebrate the great

horses that we've all gotten to watch.

And certainly you're 2018 defined by one of them in

Justify. Take us back, man.

What's it like just the first time you got on him?

Did you know how special it was? And then obviously those six

races in his career. Well, yeah, he had already come

to the to the barn with a lot of pretty high expectations, I

believe. And then when you watch him

break his maiden first time out the way he did, it was was

extremely impressive. So you knew, you knew he was

really good and he was fast. You just, you just didn't know,

you know, distance what what his limitations were.

And, you know, he hadn't been around two turns.

And so when I wrote him and that that allowance race around two

turns that day, I was like, wow, I think he's even much better

going further. So we knew we had a monster on

our hands. Well, you also, you know, that

was your second Kentucky Derby win.

You also won with Giacomo back in 2005.

Quite a different story there. Big long shot this time where

Justify you were kind of expected to win.

And just just take us through the mindset of a jockey in those

two completely different scenarios, 1 coming in as the

presumed winner and one coming in as nobody talking about him.

Well, the pressure's certainly different.

Although I, I had some high expectations on Giacomo, I

actually thought he had a really good chance to, to pull the race

off, to steal it because of, of, of the fact that, that all the

contenders were, were really, really fast horses.

It seemed like I thought it was going to be an extremely fast

Derby run early on. And, and, you know, he'd been

all his prep races that had been out in California where, where

the tracks were so fast back then.

You know, he always finished very strong.

So I always thought when he, when he, when he got back, you

know, to attract it didn't favor speed as much.

He he, he wouldn't be without a big chance to really be a, you

know, even better horse And, and he certainly was, of course he

needed to run his best race of all time on on that day to do

it. But but then he picked the right

day to do it, didn't he? Yes, he did.

He really did, Mike. He'll be aboard Rodriguez for

the Kentucky Derby Rendition 151 this year.

Mike, I happen to be at the Wood Memorial this year for your

mount aboard Rodriguez in that one.

But first, First off, what was it like being an aqueduct that

weather all the things? Did it?

Did it all come rushing back to you?

I've had some wonderful, wonderful memories of, of, of

riding back there in the winter meets.

Man, I actually had a good time. And I don't mind it when it's

that cold like that. It makes you want to ride, to be

honest with you. And it was fun just to be back,

especially with the wood wood memorial was always, you know,

the highlight of the meet and you know, one of the, the, the

races you want to win, you know, when you're in New York.

And so, so to go back, it was able to not only pull that off.

I mean, look, we, we, we went in knowing we had a chance.

I thought that that he would have to win to really show that

he belong. But but but not only did he do

that, he actually, man, he did it really impressive.

And then his gallop out was really good.

I loved, I loved his energy level after the race.

He wasn't he, he seemed like an extra 8th of a mile.

I wasn't going to bother him. So I came in, I came out of that

race not only getting the opportunity to to ride him and

to win it, but but man, he's, he's legit man.

He's got a big chance. Well, take us back to before

that race. What did you observe about him?

Because you hadn't ridden him in a race before.

So what did you observe about him?

What did Bob tell you kind of leading into it that made you

successful? Well, early on, I mean when he

broke his maiden man, he was so impressive right.

And then when he got into the preps for the the the last two

races, especially before the Wood Memorial, you know, he was

in there with three other Bob's horses and they all had speed.

So they had to try and do something with, with, with one

of them. And they they thought that they

could do that with him to, to take him back And, and one of

the races that he got away just a little funny.

And then it just didn't have a great trip.

And the other one they had to take ease him back off the and

he just didn't seem to care for it.

I remember Bob tone when I was going to get the opportunity to

ride him, he said, listen, I'm going to take the blinkers off.

I don't know if I'm going in the wood of the Bluegrass.

He said, but but he's your horse.

And so I, you know, I watched him break his maiden, so I knew

he had talent. You know, it's just a matter of,

you know, getting him to run that kind of race again.

And, and I think taking the blinkers off and, and, and, and

just letting him be, just letting, leaving him alone, you

know, listen, if if someone wants to go absolutely crazy, I

mean, I think he'd set off him as long as he had a, you know,

as long as he was doing it and you got him in a good happy

rhythm. I I don't think it's going to be

a problem, but he's quick, man. He came out of that gate really,

really fast And I'm, you know, we'll definitely use his speed

to his advantage and, and, and he just keeps running and he

just, he didn't show me no quit the other day.

So man, I'm again, I just so excited about getting the

opportunity to ride in. You talked about Giacomo and

needing to come from off the pace in that Derby.

This one seems to have a couple of horses, including Rodriguez,

that are going to want to be on the front end him in East Ave.

Frankly, Citizen Bowl will probably want to be there as

well. You mentioned just now that you

think he can sit just off the pace and make a move later.

What gives you that confidence? Just the feeling I got from him.

He's extremely athletic. I like the way he handled.

I felt like I could have eased him back the other day.

I didn't. I didn't feel like I needed to

be in front. But listen, he's so naturally

quick and if you look at them two preparations before the

wood, he probably could have been in front now either time,

you know, So I mean, you can get in front of him, you just going

to have to run really fast to do it.

You mentioned that Bob gave you that call about, you know, not

sure which race we're going to end up in, but he's your horse.

Just talk about your relationship over the years, the

fact that you can be on call for a trainer who has so many top

horses like that. Yeah, You know, I was sitting on

the bench for a long time and he kept telling me, listen, I'm

going to pull you off the bench. I just got to find the horse

that I, that I, that I want for you.

And, and, and I remember the morning when he came up to me so

that I, I think I got him. I think I got the one for you.

Let's see what happens. And, and you know, I just been,

we, we, we've done so good together, me and Bob throughout

the years and that, you know, I've never really been a, a, the

writer that rode the whole barn or anything like that.

But man, we, we've, I think you could go back and look at our

stake record. We've done pretty good together.

So I was so happy when he gave me that, that call.

And, and, and not only did did, like I said, not only did I get

the opportunity to to win the wood the way he did, it was

really impressive. Jockey Mike Smith with us aboard

Rodriguez next week in Derby 151.

This will be your 29th Derby mountain, which is an incredible

thing to say, Mike. It'll be the most in Kentucky

Derby history, man. To have your your career

associated with that kind of longevity, that kind of high

level longevity, it's got to feel really good, huh?

No, it certainly does, and it's an honor to have been in that

many derbies. The only you know, you know.

I'm so competitive, though, that means that I, I lost. 2 for 29.

Yeah, that. Ain't a very good.

I knew where you were going. Man, so I, I got AI got a bump

that average up this year, man, we got to bump it up before it's

all said and done. 10% you go 3 for 30 at the Derby.

I think that, you know, that's pretty OK.

That's all right, man, That's good.

I'll. Certainly take it.

I'll certainly take it. Well, Speaking of, you know, all

those mounts, we've talked about Jacamo, we've talked about

Justify. Is there one horse that you rode

in the Derby that you didn't win on, but maybe you went in not

having very high expectations and ended up running

significantly better than you were expecting?

Is there anyone that kind of stands out like that?

Yeah, yeah, actually I was second for, I was second and

third for Wayne on, on, on. And I'm just for some reason I'm

just totally drawing a blank on their names.

Chris Matic when it the the year that I was third.

Yeah. I was on a man what?

I can't believe I'm drawing a blank on his name, but I mean, I

I thought I had the Derby one with him all the way up until

the last 25 yards. So he was certainly one of them.

And when War Emblem won as well, when I finished second, you

know, there's another horse for Wayne that ran extremely well.

So so yeah, I mean, there's and then there's been some that I

thought couldn't lose And, and, and look at Holy Bull.

I went in, you know, with Holy Bull that one year.

I just thought that all I had to do is make sure and stay on him

in the post parade. And this was going to be my

first Derby. And and, you know, for whatever

reason, he just didn't show up that day.

And then he'd come back a few years later and win it on one of

his sons. This was pretty incredible.

So and then, like, you know, I never really just finished the

story, you know, would justify going in with him.

I mean, he although he was so lightly racing, if he was, you

know, fighting, you know, there was the Apollo curse that that

was against him. He was just a man of bucks boys

that that year. I mean, he was just the beast.

And if you, if you if you happen to look at all of them in the

paddock that that afternoon, you you could just see it.

I mean, he just looked bigger and stronger and and and, and

and faster and, and all you wanted to do was just get away.

Well, and then I knew if I could get away well, not only could

you win the Derby, this was the kind of horse that could maybe

pull the whole thing off, you know, the the Holy Grail, which

is a Triple Crown. And and lo and behold, he did

it. You know, not only was he

talented, he was just extremely intelligent on top of it.

You know, you didn't have to worry about him.

And he'd go in there, he'd stand, he looked right down the

racetrack and when him doors were open for a big horse man,

he'd get out of there now. And we, you know, he made your

job really easy. When you get mounts aboard his

kids, you know, when you're riding young Colts, young

Phillies, do you feel some justify in all of them?

Oh, yeah, no, it's fun. It's fun to ride.

You know, the offspring, man, It's, it's you always try to

compare them to see if they have any, any, anything that, that,

that resembles or, or, or, or, you know, tendencies like their

father did. And, and, and, and, and you do

and you see it, you know, and he's just been some sire.

He's just been incredible. Not only was he great on the

track, he's been as impressive, if not even more off the track.

Speaking of that family lineage a little bit.

So Rodriguez here is a son of a Kentucky Derby winner,

Authentic. You did not ride Authentic in

the Derby, but you did ride into victory in the Haskell Stakes.

Is there anything that you notice similarity wise between

Rodriguez and Authentic? Both of them extremely athletic,

extremely athletic and early on authentic had some little he was

a big green. It took him just a little bit to

really start to focus. You know, when he retired, he

had just really started to focus.

He really started to see how good that that that that horse

was. You know, he it, but it it took

him just a little bit. He he was a big green for a

while, but once he once he once he figured it out, man, he was

what a racehorse and he was a very, very athletic horse just

like this colt is. I mean he just moves over the

ground. So, so fluid, so easy.

You know, he just it, he feels much bigger than than what he is

actually because, because he's so athletic.

That's fascinating. Jockey Mike Smith.

Well, it's aboard Rodriguez for Derby 151.

Let's go ahead and let's dream together, Mike.

We'll do that here on BLOOD HORSE Monday.

We we're with you in the winner's circle.

All the things are going well and you hear names like Isaac

Murphy, Earl Sand, Angel Kadero Junior, Gary Stevens, Ken

Deshormo, Kevin Burrell, Calvin Burrell, excuse me, Victor

Espinoza and John Velasquez and then Mike Smith.

This is this is the kind of list three time winners of the Derby.

It's daunting, but it's it's very much in front of you.

What What comes to mind when you hear that kind of list?

Oh yes, extremely talented writers First off and foremost.

And #3 is my favorite number man Why not?

It can happen. Trust me, God's will, it will

happen. Then maybe a record that I don't

know if you really are going to go around and promote it as

much, but if you do win the Derby, you break Bill's

shoemaker's record for the oldest jockey to win the Derby.

What does that mean anything to you?

Just as far as you know how, how well you've been able to kind of

keep yourself together after all these years.

Yes and no. I mean, it's oh, I'm the oldest

guy to win the Derby, you know what I mean?

That's not a, you know, something I really want to go

around and save. But, but I am proud of, of the

way I've taken care of myself as far as, you know, physical

fitness. I made it a part of my life at A

at a pretty young age and, and I've kept up with it.

I'm actually obsessed with it, which is a good thing.

I guess there would be being an athlete.

I mean, it's a good thing to be obsessed with.

But you know, I mean, I, when all my friends, we were in our

20s and they were all out playing golf and, and, and I was

in that gym and I used to be honest with you, I was like,

what am I doing in here, man? I could be out at the sunshine

playing golf with the guys and I'm sitting in here in the darn

gym. But I just always thought about

the future for some odd reason. I always thought ahead and just

thought, you know, if I, I love this game so much, I, I want to

do it as long as I can. And I, I'm very competitive and

I want to be as competitive. I want to be as good as I

possibly can later on in life. And, and, and look, I mean, look

what it's done, you know, watching guys like, you know,

Lafique pink eye back in the day, how he took care of his

body and how he was getting the opportunity to ride him in his

50s. If he went and went down and got

hurt, I guarantee you'd still be right, right, right beside me in

the starting gate. I mean, that guy just took such

great care of himself, him and guys like Alex Solis and

somebody's great rider. They taught me how to take care

of my body. And, and here I am, I'll be 59

in August and, and, and I'm in the gym right now and I feel

just as strong as ever and I feel great, man.

I'm, my legs are there, you know, my core is there and, and,

and, and I'm not doing the running, you know, so you got,

you got your legs and your core and you got all that, that, that

experience, man, there's nothing better.

I, I feel very confident when I go out and ride that I'm at

least going to, I'm at least going to do the, the, I'm going

to do my job. I'm going to do it well and I'm

going to do the right thing. And I feel, I feel good about

that. Now.

We just got to be good enough to win, you know?

Well, we saw that on full display yesterday just with Cabo

Spirit, you winning that race with him.

I liked what you said afterwards.

You didn't you didn't know if you necessarily needed to kind

of push him to to the wire, but you felt like you had to get the

owners their monies worth for hiring.

I kind of given him that little ride there.

But you mentioned a bunch of, you know, kind of legendary

names for the jockeys. One of the unique things with

the Kentucky Derby is jockeys from around the country.

This is one of those events where you all kind of meet and

sit in the same spot, whether they're riding in the Derby or

they're riding in one of the races on the undercard that

weekend. Is there any like special events

that, you know, usually we don't hear about that you jockeys do,

like going out to going out to eat or hanging out at someone's

house. Just kind of everybody uniting

since you're all. Together.

GG. Yeah, yeah, right.

Golf. I'm little guys do golfing, you

know, I'm always at, at Jeff Ruby's for dinner time, man.

That's where that's where I'm going to be.

I'm like, I'm one of the Jeff Ruby jocks and that's it.

Incredible, incredible restaurant.

I just love it being there. And a lot of us, you know, will

gather up there and, and get a chance to, to, you know, to

visit, you know, because we don't all ride at the same areas

and places. And then, you know, I think the

Wednesday before they have the jocktails where they, you know,

it's for a great 'cause it's for, for the disabled riders.

And, and, and it's nice to, to the fans get to come in.

You get to meet some of the fans and the owners and trainers and

everybody kind of gathers in there and it's it's a, it's a

wonderful event. Last one, and this is very

selfish, Mike, we appreciate you joining us, jockey Mike Smith

here on Blood Horse Monday. You were at the 100th Wood

Memorial. You won the 100th Wood Memorial

on the same day. Kendrick Carmouche got his four

thousandth win and got the big placard.

Not to jump into the big crowd there at Aqueduct.

I got to admit that I'm so glad I was there for that moment.

I it was so it was so exceptional that Aqueduct thing.

And obviously that's a place that's going to be going away in

our sport in a couple of years. But that Long Island thing, how

much did you enjoy being being there for that moment as well

with Kendrick? You know, I he, he took all my

fans away from me. Man, they used to do.

Me back in the days, yeah, they loved you.

Back during the winter time, I I used to do quite a bit of that

kind of stuff like Kindred did. Overall, I never jumped into

into the crowd. I.

I wasn't brave enough to do that, but that's why they.

Left me for him, yeah. You.

Know, and they're just some just amazing fans, man.

Listen, when when, when they like you there, man, and it

means something. It really does.

You know, they're they're a tough crowd now.

They'll let you know what if you ain't they don't feel like

you're riding well enough. But man, when they're yeah, when

when they love you, it's a it's a love that that you ain't never

felt before. It's strong there.

You go. He's Jackie.

Mike Smith aboard Rodriguez for Derby 151 next week.

Mike, safe trips all the next week and hopefully we'll catch

up with you down the line. Thanks so much for joining us

here on BLOOD. Responding Thanks for having me

on. Yeah, we appreciate it.

All right, Less golf, more gym. That's what we learned from Mike

Smith today. You understand me.

Less golf, more gym with Mike Smith.

Thanks, Mike. Thank you.

You guys have a good day. Likewise.

Thank you so much. There you go.

I was there for that Wood Memorial.

It was one of those races, Sean, that I I'm one of these guys.

I fall in love with horses that I get to watch in person.

Are you like me? OK, I think all of us have this

kind of bias. But if you go by the numbers,

purely last eighth, last three eighths, etcetera, Rodriguez is

absolutely a contender in this year's Kentucky Derby.

And you get a guy who's in his 29th Derby.

This is what we're this is what we're talking about, right?

A guy with experience with a horse that frankly is going to

be going to be near the front because he breaks.

Well, yeah, he's live for me, man.

He's live for. Me usually in the Derby, that

perfect trip is kind of the ones that are sitting right behind

the pace. Now my question, but my biggest

question with him is, is two wins.

He had everything his own way on the lead is defeats where when

he did not have that. Mike sounds pretty confident

that's not going to be an issue. The taking off the blinkers

seems to have kind of, you know, made a difference from Mike's

perspective. And so I do see where that

could, you know, if he's able to get him to relax just off the

pace. And it sounds like Mike has a

good idea of how to do that. I think the source is going to

be very live if he's on the lead, unless nobody else goes

with him. I can't necessarily say that I

really like him if he's in that position just because I know

horses like East Avenue are going to be up there.

You know, citizens is going to be present admire Daytona.

I'd imagine you don't have to UAE Derby where he was in the

front. I'd imagine he's probably going

to try to be forward as well. There's A and Owen Almighty,

there's enough horses in there that are going to be up on the

front. But if he, if Mike is able to do

exactly what he wants to do, he's able to kind of get that

justified trip where he does get him to relax just right behind

the pace, be the first one to make that run.

I think he's a live contender for sure.

I totally agree. We've already seen his dad and

we saw authentic do it. Yeah, hey, ran the exact race

that we're talking about. And so I, I'm very high on him.

I know it's at least part bias because I was there in New York

for it, but I those are also the only interviews so people don't

know. I get to do a 11:50 daily radio

show on our local ESPN affiliate here.

And if a coach said to me, just trust me or I just know.

I would push back when Mike Smith says I just know I'll let

him go, yeah. I I think he hit this one.

That's what I trust, yeah. He's won enough races and he's

won enough big races at this point where if he knows, he

knows. I literally say what?

How do you know he goes. I know.

Now let's just. Counter your you know, just

because I was their thing. You're also at the Jiff, Ruby.

You were also at the Bluegrass. That's fair.

Do you feel the same way about Burnham Square and Final Gambit?

Or do you feel a little bit more confident?

Rodriguez. Much more confident Rodriguez.

So then I'd say at least it's maybe slightly not biased.

I'll tell you there is a bias and we'll we'll get to it in a

second here with some of our trainer clips that you've been

putting together. I think E Avenue's run in the

Bluegrass is being wildly underrated.

Yeah, I remember you said that to me.

The other. Day I I think it's he's I I

think he's the fastest horse in the Kentucky Derby all right, I

I really. Do bold claim.

And and I. There's any of them in there?

Are you sure you don't want to double?

Check. I think he's the fastest horse

in the Kentucky Derby. I think E Avenue is going to be

the lead in the in this race. That's my opinion.

I I just think it's the only thing he knows how to do and I'm

not picking on the horse. That's what he does.

And so I think he's going to be near the front defront, excuse

me, And I think Rodriguez is going to have to trail him the

whole way and just hope that he has more the last eight.

I think that's where we're at. And then you're going to have

plenty of others tapping St. sovereignty, journalism,

etcetera that are all going to be in that next group pushing

those kinds of horses. Now, do you think sticking with

E Avenue here, so if he's going to be up there on the lead, do

you think he can last the full mile and a quarter up there on

the? Lead.

I don't, but we have seen way weirder things that he used to

have in winning the Kentucky Derby.

Yes, we have. Way weirder.

So bridge strike. Yeah, there.

No, there are tons of examples. Country house, there's all, all

kinds of examples. Something like of the last 18

winners, four of them have been the longest odds on the board.

Yeah, if you do anything at horse racing 4 out of 18 times,

that's exceptional. Yeah, it really is so.

On top of that, we haven't had a horse win the Derby since

Authentic that won their final prep race.

We've had four straight horses win the race.

Even when you look at 2021, whether you count Medina Spirit

or you count Mandaloon, both of them lost their final prep race.

So it's something that anything can happen.

Yeah, I agree. We can do a ranking next week on

Blood Horse Monday of our favorite 2nd place finishers in

the preps. All right, do something like

that. I think we could do that little

sorry. Talk.

So there you go. I appreciate Mike jumping off

with us here and hey, we're putting a bow on the April

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17 to 19 as well. Really appreciate Mike Smith

jumping on with us and the good folks at OBS getting in with us

very early in our process here at Blood Horse Monday.

Shaw, Collins, Luger well hanging out with you.

Let's get to some of this trainer sound you spend.

I think it's you and Jenny Reese.

Do you sleep in the same tent with cots or like how does this

work that you're at Churchill so often?

Honestly, we're probably going to have to start doing that next

year well. Yeah, PPA has a house.

I know I'm. Just going to take a room in the

house and just sleep there for the entire month.

That would honestly make my life so much easier.

I could then then I could wake up at like 5:00 instead of at

4:15 because I could just walk right out the door and be on the

back stretch. But yeah, you're going to hear

some of these trainer clips that we're going to have for you

here. You're going to hear Jenny

Reese's a couple times asking a couple questions, so her and I

have been the dynamic duo back there on the backside.

Shout out to someone who I know listens to this show in January.

So I appreciate her very much. Let's start with E Avenue, just

'cause we were talking about him just now.

So you I was there when you did this interview with trader

Brendan Walsh. Making sure the camera didn't

blow over in the wind so I greatly appreciate.

That you're welcome star of the show right here.

And so, but with with trader Brendan Walsh, we go to the East

Avenue bounce back. It was something that we got to

talk with because he is a good dolphin trainee with with

Michael Banahan a couple episodes ago.

And I remember asking him what happened in Louisiana Derby.

He goes, I don't know, I don't know.

So now we know that he's at least capable of a considerably

better run. Both of his best ones coming at

Keeneland. But here is here's Sean with

trader Brendan Walsh talk at East App.

This time he had to knuckle down and and he had to fight.

I don't I don't think he learned an awful lot last year.

You know, everything came to him so easy and you know, he ended

up on the lead both his his first two races never saw a

horse. So you just wonder how much he

learned the the Breeders Cup was a non event.

I I mean, he threw me for a loop at in New Orleans.

You know, I, I still couldn't give you 100% answer on, on why

he, he ran as poor as he did. You know, maybe, maybe we were a

little easy on him too. He was just doing everything so

easy. Maybe we, we just weren't, you

know, maybe he really had to knuckle down and on him in his

work. And we did that after the Risen

Star. And I think it showed on on

Bluegrass Day. What's your mindset when you see

a performance like that in the Risen Star?

You don't necessarily have a 100% answer to just have faith

in the horse, have faith that he's going to get back to his

top four and just keep pushing forward to the bluegrass.

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, you know, obviously, you know,

you think about it after and, and you, you don't have a

definite answer. There's a question mark over the

horse. Everybody is thinking he's this

or he's there, you know, but he is a very good horse.

I mean, he's super talented, as talented as we've had.

And, you know, we, we just had to have faith in him, but we

just had to had to just knuckle down and, and teach him a little

more. And, and, you know, I think he

learned a lot in the in the bluegrass, which was great to

see. And you know, hopefully he makes

a big step forward in the Derby as well.

In that Bluegrass, you know, he had the lead for most of the

race. He kind of dug in and the

stretch battled off some some of his competition and I was just

caught right on the wire. How much confidence does that

give you in his ability to move forward into the next spot?

It gives me a lot of, a lot of ability because he had, he had

every opportunity in the bluegrass to do what he did in

the Risen star. If he was a non genuine horse.

And, and I think he, he showed that he, he was as genuine as

they came. And like I said, he, he, he's

probably still learning. So if he if he learned from the

bluegrass, then I that's why I think he's set to make a step

forward. I said Louisiana Derby earlier.

I meant Risen Star, of course. But let's go back.

Let's say Burnham Square doesn't catch him at the wire and he

wins the Bluegrass. How differently are we talking

about East Ave. I think we'd be talking about a

lot. A lot.

Differently, so literally like 1/10 of a second, we're talking

about him essentially as a horse that can't get the distance,

can't do these things. I mean, it's, it's, it's

interesting how the narratives develop based on 1/10 of a

second in horse racing, but it's the reality of our sport.

Yeah, now it would be different, you know, is he just getting his

head down and Burnham Square was about to catch him?

Or if you just take Burnham Square completely out of the

race and, you know, he re rallies after Owen Almighty kind

of gave him that run he holds off River Thames.

I think if Burnham Square wasn't there at all, as I think we're

talking about him as I almost knock over the mic, I think

we're talking about him as probably one of one of the big

favorites with that bounce back in that in the.

Progress, especially with the obvious speed that he had to

keep. And on top of that, so that

interview that I did with Brendan was right after he had

just worked out at circle downs, his first one since the Blue

Cross. He looked terrific.

And I was getting text. I was getting text from a couple

people that were on the front side talking about how terrific

he looked. It sounds like, you know, every

year we have that wise guy who are he's probably one of the

candidates that's going to be one of those wise guy horses

from what I'm hearing people talk about on the race track.

But then I also thought of this too and I'm interested to get

your opinion. It seems like a lot of times in

the last, you know, couple years, everybody's really high

on the horse that runs second in the Bluegrass Stakes and then

that horse ends up not running as well.

You think highly motivated. You think just a touch, you

think a couple of those horses that, you know, everybody's kind

of like, oh, they ran so well in the Bluegrass.

He's going to come back and run well and then they don't.

So, you know, I'm kind of on the fence there, but I, I do think

it's going to be tough for him. I do think there's going to be

quite a bit of pace pressure, but if something weird happens,

his pace pressure doesn't break and he's up there up by himself.

I like them a lot. To try to wear that right.

Yeah, for sure. And the other.

So here's the other part, the wood, the Bluegrass, the

Arkansas Derby, Louisiana Derby, what do they all have in common?

They're not great predictors for high level success in the

Kentucky Derby. They're not right now,

occasional jump UPS from some some of the horses.

But the Florida Derby, the Santa Anita Derby, these are the

mainstays of where we have gotten the best horses in the

last 25 years. Let's call it what it is right

now, the bluegrass. We just assume, hey, let's

travel. We're at Keeneland already.

That's going to translate. Those dirt services do not

translate all the time. We see horses that are not going

to Keeneland come to Churchill. They're just fine.

And vice versa for sure, great at Churchill, get to Keeneland

in the fall. It's like what?

Whose horse is this? And so I'm always just leery of

the bluegrass. I think we want it to be the

prep because so many, so many people love Keeneland and the

field and all this and they want that to be the prep that comes

through and I think wanting something and it actually being

true or very different. And I think in this case now, I

want to be very clear, though, you can't make that speed up

that E Avenue had at Keeneland. You can't make that up.

That's legitimate. He's very talented.

And what Brendan said, I thought was what stood out to me about

his performance, which was everything was set up for him to

do Risen Star Part 2, and he did not do that in the Bluegrass.

I think he's a major contender. I do wonder about the distance,

but we wonder that about everybody except for what, two

horses in this field, Three horses, something like that.

If that puts him in with 17 other horses and he's got front

end speed, I think he puts him in the contender list.

Well, talking about the difference in the racetrack,

does it concern you at all his not counting his, well, not

counting his maiden win at Ellis Park?

Because you know who? His highest level success is a

Keeneland. Exactly.

Do you have any kind of reservations about the fact that

the couple times he's not been running a Keeneland?

Yes, yes, I do. Yeah.

But I think the works and being at Churchill, being in the barn

there, I, I think you can overcome some of those things.

And I also think being in front of 150,000 people clicks for

some horses enough for others. I do think Keeneland is probably

one of the best. For crowd noise.

Crowd noise Probably one of the best final preparations that

prepares the horses for the Derby.

Now. It wasn't as big a crowd as

usual because it was the Tuesday this year, but still compared to

probably what was. It's still a busy paddock, it's

still, you know, those things. There's still some activity

people around, I agree with you on that.

I think for sure. I think Oak Lawn, the Arkansas

Derby and the Blue. Florida Derby does that too.

There's a fair, there's a good crowd.

I. Haven't been to the Florida

Derby. It's a good crowd.

So if it's anything like when I went to the Pegasus, and I

imagine it's probably the same, it's very like those are

probably the big ones for to try to get them prepared for the

crowd. Voice All right, so where should

we go next? Young Sean?

You want to go like, yeah, let's go.

Let's go to the Ruby winners. How about that?

Well, or were you out? Well, I'm thinking we're talking

about East Avenue. The other one that I heard a lot

of good things about that was that breeze on Saturday was

Sovereignty. He had a pretty good breeze.

Now. It was a little funky looking

because his workmate kind of left him in the middle of the

stretch. His workmate was only working 4

for a long time. He was working 5 for a long so

he like pulled away. It looks so.

I know again, I was getting texts from people that were on

the front side like, Oh my gosh, did you see that?

And I was like, well, no, because I'm on the backside, so

I don't want to come around. Some come around the way in

front of his stablemate, but he looked pretty good.

It seems like he's been settling in pretty good.

He's had a lot of energy, though, as he's been kind of

settling in here. And so let's hear what Bill Mott

has to say about that. He's doing well.

I mean, he's been a little geared up since he's been here.

I mean, he's excited to be here when he when he comes out on the

track. I mean, he's very, you know,

pretty, pretty high energy right now.

And and, you know, he's having a good look around.

I mean, there's a lot to look at around at Churchill and, and

he's taking it all in even though he's been here before.

But, you know, he was, he's been, you know, fairly strong in

his gallops leading up to this work.

So, you know, hopefully this work will kind of smooth him out

a little bit and settle him down.

We want him to naturally conserve some of that energy.

When you look at the Florida Derby, it looked like he pretty

much ran his race and just maybe Tapping Streak got a little bit

too far ahead of him for him to catch him there.

Just how did you, how do you analyze that performance looking

forward towards the Derby? Well, I mean, you know, watching

the race, I mean, we were in fairly good position down the

backside. Tapping St. opened up two or

three lengths, you know, going around the turn while we were

still waiting to sort of begin our run.

I mean, we started chasing a little bit going into the last

turn, but you know, Gulfstream's a fairly speed favoring track

when you turn for home. I mean, horses that are on the

lead there are sometimes very hard to catch, particularly if

they're good horses. So I, I wasn't, I wasn't

disappointed in his race. You know, some might say maybe

it's a good thing that it wasn't his best race.

So, you know, maybe he's saving enough energy for, you know, for

the Derby. Hopefully, you know, hopefully

he runs a big one on Derby day. Could have used you on the

camera there. You left me too early when he

stepped out a shot there as I was in the middle of the

interview. But.

Have they named his jockey for the Kentucky Derby?

Yeah, Junior Alvarado. Junior is going to be back in

time. OK, great.

I think he. Just wrote a keen one a couple

days. OK, great.

So I see he should be back. I saw that they hadn't made a

change, and I didn't know if that was because Junior was good

enough to. OK, good.

Yeah, here's what I'll say about sovereignty.

He was talking about the Florida Derby.

I think the the thing that stands out for me is when you

have a horse that needs to close that much and you make the jock

change. I think we talked about this on

this show, timing that close and those things.

And it's not it's not a put down at all of Manny Franco 0%.

But when you ride Aqueduct every day for an entire winter and

then you have to ship down to Miami, ride a horse you've never

ridden and time it and still get close By the way, with tapping

streets, running his eyeballs out, I I think Sobretti's

totally set up here. He's totally fine, 5-6 to one on

Derby day. I think of the closers, he's

going to be the best one. Yes.

And he's he loves Churchill Downs.

Yeah, of deep closers. He's the one that I have the

most faith in. I think that he is one of the

ones that it doesn't really matter what the pace scenario

is, he's going to come with the run regardless.

Now, the pace scenario might be the difference maker between him

winning and, you know, just being part of the superfecta.

But I think I can say I feel like unless he really gets cut

off somewhere and he gets stuck in some kind of traffic, I, I, I

think at this point, it's hard to imagine a scenario where he

doesn't hit at least the superfecta because he's going to

be coming with that run. He likes Churchill Downs.

That long stretch is going to help him out.

He's going to be coming really with that, that big long stride

of his and it's he's full of energy right now leading into

the race. I've seen nothing but positive

signs from him being out there each morning.

I love that helmet by the way. I never get tired of seeing it.

It makes me smile every time. The Bill Mott helmet.

Does it have a name? I.

Don't know the most impressive thing that I've seen on the back

helmet. I like helmet, get it done.

Get it done, Bill. But the most impressive thing

I've seen on the back stretch the last couple weeks is

Sovereignty's first day out there on the racetrack.

Bill Mott just threw himself over the rail to go fix his

saddle before he actually started started jogging.

It was the most fluid. It was the most fluid thing that

I've seen. And for somebody, I don't think

I could do that. In 25 and 58 year old Mike Smith

dogging us about not being at the gym, we got we got Bill Mott

flipping over fences. I'm going to start working out.

We're going to be doing this episode, We're going to be doing

next weeks episode from the gym. As we work out in the middle of

it, sit ups, crunches for an hour.

Man Sean Collins. So graceful.

The way he got over that rail. Blood Horse Monday with you.

Let's get into these horses that you and I saw at the at the

Ruby. We'll get into final gambit

here. First mega impressive second win

ever comes out of that maiden win goes ahead and passes

everybody in the Ruby flying another one of these horses.

If you want to use that final fractions theory kind of number

doesn't seem inhibited by the 10 furlongs He I would put him

firmly on the list of horses I trust to get the distance.

Do you agree? I agree, but we all know what

the one question mark is and that's the fact he hasn't raced

on dirt before. I think that he's looked pretty

good in the mornings here. He's had three workouts over the

over the track so far, but who cares about my opinion?

Let's hear what Brad Cox have to say about how he's getting over

the dirt. Obviously getting him used to

the dirt and I really like what I see from him.

He doesn't seem to, you know, didn't seem to slow him down.

His gallop outs are great. So he's moving.

Rogers very happy that he's moving great.

So we'll see see how things go over the next few weeks.

And you know, he started his career on the turf and then he

had three straight starts on the synthetic.

He's been training up at Turfway throughout the winter.

And So what are like the key things that you're looking for

as far as his movement over the dirt to make sure he's ready on

the 1st Saturday in May? That's.

How he's moving, and I mean, look, he's a good going horse to

begin with. He's light on his feet.

He's athletic. And, you know, getting feedback

from riders is very important and they seem to really like

what they they feel from him on the dirt.

So everything's been very positive so far.

And it seems like he's really kind of developed recently.

He's been coming along quickly, winning the Jeff Ruby very

impressive league with that last first move.

So is this kind of him handling the dirt now versus if he wasn't

handling it as a 2 year old? Is that just him growing up?

I think so, but mentally he's he's grown up a lot.

You know, you can watch some of his replays, just even even in

like the post parade and stuff. He used to goof around a bit and

he he's you know, he's very playful horse, good feeling,

lots of energy and he's just, you know, learning to listen to

what the rider and you know, whoever just walking and wants

him to do, you know, responding to to, you know, his commands.

And you know, he he's growing up mentally as well as physically

over the winter and he's getting better all the time.

And I think that's, you know, a key, key thing moving forward.

Just trying to win the derbies, just being right for Saturday in

May and he's definitely going the right way.

You know, for a sport that loves its merch, like you're in that

wearing a 151 hat, right? You got a hoodie, right?

No one dominates the merch game like Brad Cox.

Oh. He's got everything.

He's all. He's got that logo, he's got the

three letters, Brad Cox racing on everything, dominating

jackets, hats, vests, shirts. And you see people wearing, you

see people wearing them at the track.

Yeah, it's all bad Dog. He's played it out final game it

on dirt, and here's why I believe him.

I saw two fills. I watched Rich strike, frankly,

endlessly wasn't bad in the Derby last year.

He just wasn't as good as the eight horses ahead of him,

right? So I've seen it happen.

You've seen it happen. That's what mostly gives me good

feelings about this horse. I still think Brad's way higher

on tap and straight than he is on it.

Now my counter to that is 2 fills and Rich Strike had been

racing on dirt before they were. Racing.

I know you know 2 fills was racing pretty well on dirt.

I know everybody kind of comments on Rich Strike, but the

one thing he had going for him going into the Derby was his one

victory was at Churchill Downs. So he was experienced on that

track. We did see endlessly last year

first start on dirt. I know we both think that he ran

better than people give him credit for, but he also still

finished in the middle of the pack in that first start on dirt

and you know, he was caught pretty far back.

But does that, you know, when we keep we keep giving the Jeff

Ruby all this credit, but they also had horses that had dirt

experience. Same with Caesar Gray last year

winning the Preakness. So does that that doesn't

concern you at all. The fact that there's just no

dirt race experience on. For him, I'm not on Final Gambit

if that's something that needs to be said on this show.

Yeah, no, he's not one of my contenders.

For sure. I do distance, distance, doesn't

I? For sure using the American

turf, I'd be giving him serious, serious looks.

Serious looks because frankly, when we talked with Brad Cox

before the the turf came up with him.

Yeah, but he got into the Derby. You got to try it.

I get it. These parts I understand for

sure you got to try the Derby. But no, I would be looking the

other way. A neighbor of mine, Whit

Beckman, lives over this. This part of Louisville has

Flying Mohawk, who finished second.

Fun connections here, of course, Jason Worth and all the folks in

that group. But we we saw this horse finish,

frankly a good set, a difficult second in the Ruby, a much more

difficult overall trip than a final gambit had to deal with in

this one. But you, you talked with wit,

yes, your sort of sense of him being in the dirt here.

Well, you know they are taking a shot with the dirt.

Again, he has not run on dirt. So just like we just talked

about with final. You and I like Fly Mohawk going

into the Ruby based on a turf win at Fairgrounds coming in, in

fact. Yes right.

And I I liked his maiden win on the turf with Churchill as well.

So, you know, he had his pedigree screams grass.

His, you know, his race record so far has been all grass except

for the Jeff Ruby, which he did run pretty well.

It sounded like at first, right after the Jeff Ruby, the feeling

I got from the connections was, well, we're in the Derby.

We're going to go to the Derby just because it is a Derby.

Sure. As I've talked to wit, you know,

maybe he's faking it, I don't know.

But as I've talked to wit, he's over the last couple weeks, he's

been getting, it sounds like more and more confident that

he's going to be able to handle the dirt.

This horse has trained on the dirt.

Yes. He has throughout his career and

it just, he just, it seems like he's getting a little bit more

confident with everything. He's really relying on, you

know, is if the race set up sets up for him, we just have to make

sure that he's ready, ready to run.

Cuz we starting to think that dirt might not be a problem.

And he has been looking pretty good out there on the racetrack.

Let's hear what what had to say about him being on the dirt.

I've never had an issue. He's always worked really well

on it. You know, just as his pedigree

and maybe just come to physical attributes had us spotting him

on the turf early on. Like I said, he strengthened up

a lot since 2 year old year and come through like in New

Orleans. He's putting us some really

strong works. You know what kind of next

couple weeks ratcheted up a little bit.

Obviously he's going to have to get over the dirt, you know,

really well. And they said we could get an

officer. You never know what's going to

happen Derby Day. But in the meantime, we'll just

do everything we can to prepare him for what could come.

He had to be one too in the Jeff Ruby to get into this race

because he'd only raced on grass.

So did you see that? As as sort of a bridge.

Race or did you see that that's a good spot to try?

To be well, I think yeah, I mean it just as far as it was a

points race, but it also kind of put him into the transitional

thing where you go on the Poly, not necessarily straight to

dirt, you know, and I felt the horse he's always trained very

well on dirt. So I knew that he would run a

respectable race up there. Like I was pretty confident we

were going to get it. I just I knew I had the right

horse. I knew he was training well

enough. I knew, you know, the Ruby's

just one of those were like Turfway's a tough surface to

predict as well. You know, you can't really say

how if a horse is more after running on grass or dirt is

going to run better on that. You just can't it's just one of

those it changes day-to-day. So, but I felt just with

everything he had done for us and just the type of horse he

was, that would be a good spot to bridge the gap between here,

the dirt track and hopefully get in at the same time.

He breezed with Anna Marie today.

Why are they a good pair to go out there?

I hope the one teaches the other one exactly kind of what you

need to, you know, No, it's just to, you know, I want to get the

one ready for the dirt. And like I said, Anna Marie's

always been a solid dirt horse, good workhorse.

You know, they just were where they're both at in their

schedules too. They just match up perfectly.

So, you know, I guess even putting the horse in the race,

it's a war. It's like trip is everything.

There's 1001 things that can go wrong once the gates open.

So like you don't necessarily need the best horse to win the

race, but you just need a horse that gets the trip, can handle

the distance and you know, you don't know what the conditions

are going to be on the day. So I just think I'm not going to

stress, not going to worry about, you know, the things we

can't control, the things we can or just try to get our horses

ready as possible. And then everything else, just

enjoy the ride and, you know, appreciate where we're at.

Future superstar. Oh, yeah, Windbeck.

No question in my mind. Head Otto Marie in the Derby

last year, you heard him mentioning them working in

tandem, Sean asking the question there.

Thanks, Jenny, for being part of the podcast as well.

It's interesting to hear him talk the way that he does

because he talks about, yes, I knew his best next step was

Polly if we were going to move toward dirt.

In other words, using Turfway as a stepping stone toward the dirt

at Churchill Downs. But that he's always worked well

on dirt as well. That's it's an interesting

reminder that while he qualified at Turfway, he was doing most of

his training and working at fairgrounds before he got to

Kentucky, right. And so and he has a win on the

Poly, but not not a life on the Poly either.

Yeah, and I believe I went back and looked.

I believe he's only ever had three recorded workouts on the

turf course, and they were back at Saratoga in the summer.

So most of his breezes have come on the dirt throughout his

entire career, even, you know, leading up to when he ran in the

Pilgrim Stakes last year, leading up to his maiden win,

leading up to his allowance win at Fairgrounds and then leading

up to the Jeff Ruby. He never breezed that turfway

before he got there. He was breezing down a

fairground. So he is he he does have more

experience on the dirt actually than Final Gambit does, because

Final Gambit was mostly breezing on the synthetic.

So yeah. Yeah, there you go.

Should be an interesting entry and again, one that did most of

his running late but was closer to the pace than a final gambit

was in that race, but not much. Yeah, they are both way back.

He got shuffled back quite a bit and he's one of the out of the

two. I think Final Gambit, we've seen

what we're going to get from him.

He's going to drop out the back and he's going to be coming with

that run. I do think Flying Mohawk,

depending on how he breaks, depending on how the horses

around him breaks, I do kind of see where he could, you know, he

might be all the way back there with Final Gambit again, or I

could definitely see him sitting like that mid pack, like, you

know, somewhere between that 8th and 12th place.

I think it would be a good spot for.

Him jockey Joe Ramos will get the amount there with foot

Flying Mohawk. One of the best turf way this

last season, but certainly also tearing it up a place that you

and I'll be in a couple weeks, a horseshoe and a polis.

We'll get up there in a couple of weeks and the last one we

definitely need to and what to get into here.

He's got 2IN, it's his tastic, it's publisher, it's Steve

Asmussen and it is it's interesting because it doesn't

matter how many all time wins you have, the Derby's a

different animal, right? So I know, I know Mike Smith

talks about only having two, which is a ridiculous number

already, but I don't know, just 4 trainers, how difficult it is

to even get to this spot, let alone win one of these.

When you talk with him, what's his general mood?

How do you think he's feeling is I don't want to say it's another

day at the office, it's the Derby, it's not another day at

the office. But how is Steve approaching

things, you think? Well, Steve seems fairly

confident that he's got these horses peeking at this time

right now. So you have publisher who has

never won a race before. He's still a maiden, but he's

been holding his own down there in Arkansas.

He was one of those horses that a lot of people talked about him

after the Southwest because he was making a run.

He got cut off in the middle of the stretch from a tiring horse

and a lot of people liked him coming back in the Rebel.

Rebel kind of unfolded weirdly. You had Madiket Rd. up there,

Cold Battle was able to run him down, but Madiket Rd. kind of

stayed up there on a speed favoring track.

So publisher still ran respectable behind him, but he

ran much better in the Arkansas Derby to finish second.

And you'll hear from Steve, he's been kind of, even though he

hasn't won, he's been holding his own training wise against

his tastic against magnitude who won the Risen Stars so

impressively earlier in the year.

And so, you know, he's always been on Steve's Derby radar,

even though he is a maiden, which is why he's been running

in the prep races as a maiden tis tastic.

He was one that I talked to Steve about actually last year

as a 2 year old. And I remember him telling me

about part of the reason why he didn't go out to the Breeders

Cup was because they didn't feel like he was mentally mature

enough to really handle the flight and handle travel and

everything. And it seems like he's really

grown up a lot and he's now getting to the point where he's

putting the talent together with the mental aspects.

So he does sound, you know, you can never 100% tell Steve, but

it does sound like he's feeling pretty confident about where the

horses are at this point. And here is a trainer, Steve

Asmussen with Sean a couple of days ago on Testastic and

publisher Nice. Horse She went to Saratoga in

last summer and came out in what proved to be.

An. Extremely popular maiden race

and he followed that up with the two excellent runs at Kentucky

Downs, which shows his First Utility.

I mean, I think it showed that he stayed early and that the

distance is going to be right in his wheelhouse.

And then off of those, he, you know, ran some solid races here

in the fall, but we're we're dealing with a a much bigger,

stronger and faster horse now and publisher his progression,

which he's. You know, still eligible for 9

winners of 1. The the fun part of about

publishers. Maybe both of us can break our

maiden in the Derby, you know, but the publishers been top

quality horse and kept company, you know, with the magnitudes

and the his tastic his entire life.

And I know that he his ability level stacks up extremely well

against those and and he's still capable of more.

The thing about publisher that is it gives you unbelievable

confidence is how what kind of a horse he is to run.

I mean, there, there is he he is going to be the easiest horse

that we've ever saddled in the Derby as far as how he takes the

the surroundings and just his personality.

He's not going to waste an ounce of energy doing anything other

than anything. Couple weeks ago we had Aaron

Wellman on this show. We wanted to talk about built.

He said, hey, let me tell you about this horse named

journalism, right? He pointed us toward journalism.

And he, by the way, was completely correct.

Yep. See, the Asmussen wanted to talk

publisher. Yep.

And I think it's worth mentioning that this is look, I

try not to do the between the lines thing with trainers.

I don't think you have to here. He keeps talking about

publisher, how easy it is to handle this horse, how much, how

honest the efforts are, etcetera.

Did I miss something in this interview?

You were right there. I mean, he's that high on

publisher. He's very high on publisher and

I will say they just breezed 2 days ago on Saturday.

You were there for that. It sounds like a lot of people,

myself included, we like publisher better out of that

work. Now, I did see our good friend

Matt Dunderman down there at Oaklawn, who he saw the same

exact thing where it looked like publisher was out working just

tastic at Oaklawn throughout the throughout the winter.

And so he said don't be too concerned about that if you're a

testastic fan. The fact that it looked like

publisher was moving a little bit better.

But yeah, Steve seems pretty high on publisher.

And I mean, we've had maidens in the Derby before.

You know, the first one that pops in my mind recently was

Trojan Nation a few years ago. But you know, this is a

different maiden. I feel like some of those guys,

they like Trojan Nation. He just kind of jumped in that

final round of prep races, collected, you know, the the 2nd

place from a pace that kind of collapsed.

Publishers been in this for three Derby prep races already.

He's been getting the points, he's been running well, he's

been getting the class test and so he's not your average maiden.

We haven't had a maiden win the Derby since brokers tip in 1933.

But I mean, hey, if there's going to be another maiden win

the Derby, I think he's probably one of the best shots we've had

in a long time. Who doesn't remember the 1933

Kentucky Derby Come. On the fighting finish, that was

one of the most epic Derby's in Yeah, he never won another race,

by the way, after that, Kentucky Derby was the only race Brokers

tip ever won. That's awesome.

Talk about the right day to fill.

Up. Not a bad day to be great.

The the thing with publisher and this goes back to the point

system. Do you like Publisher being in

in Baeza, not Cook, for example? I'm OK with it.

Yeah, 'cause you know, you look at it now.

Do I think I think Baeza is the better horse?

Probably, but Publisher has been in it for more dances.

He earned the points the hard way.

He was in for three spots versus Baeza.

You know, he was developing a little bit later, so he only had

the one prep race. I, you know, I do.

I think long term who will be the better horse?

Right now I'd probably say Baeza, but I do think publisher

deserves to be in there. Publisher Baeza Talks, brings us

to our guy Frank Angst joins us in front of books at the Blood

Horse at the Blood Horse offices.

Frank, happy Monday and I know you've written very recently, or

at least a blood Horse, bloodhorse.com, of course, for

all the great stuff going on about by Aza and and that weird

trip to and not to the Derby. Yeah, we have a column in Blood

Horse Daily called The Road that myself and Byron King kind of

take turns pinning. And yeah, I thought I'd take on

that issue. To me, I, I know what Sean's

saying, but I, I frankly, I don't understand why we have to

change the points rule every year.

It seems like they find something to change.

I don't know why a horse is penalized for a small field.

Quite frankly, that was the best field assembled of any of any

Derby prep this year. You had the top 2 ranked horses,

one of which is a champion and he defeated that that horse

Citizen Bowl. So I, I think that's the shame

of it, that that's the rule that's keeping them out.

I just, I mean, it's not really fair that the, the trainers in

California, the owners in California, you want them to

take their Derby horse across the country to find a bigger

field. It, it doesn't make any sense to

me. I, I, the thing that I'd

suggested, if we really want to gauge points on the amount of

horses in the race, just don't award 4th and 5th or don't award

death. But I think if you run second in

the Santa Anita Derby and you should be in the Kentucky Derby,

I'm not going to pick on who who should be out that that effort

should get that horse in the Derby where they're not having

to sweat out three horses scratching or anything like

that. You you should be in the

Kentucky Derby. Frank Angst with us.

Blood horse, bloodhorse.com. Of course, that story went up on

April 18. If you were looking for the

road, go check that out. Of course, that's Byron King and

Frank angst on that one. But of course, we wanted to

preview the May magazine. Of course, we'll put up the

promo code for you in this episode as well.

The QR code, I should say, so that you can get in, get that,

get that physical magazine, Sean, you understand me, of the

May magazine to your place. What's going on in the May

magazine, Frank? Yeah, the it's our Kentucky

Derby preview and a little Preakness stuff in there too as

we're monthly. So get it all in there.

And boy, it's a jam packed issue for sure.

A lot of our readers already have the the virtual issue

that's out. The print issue should be coming

out tomorrow and and throughout this week for our subscribers.

So fortunately enough, because we're always doing a little bit

of handicapping on what features might be interesting when you're

doing a monthly and planning things quite a few weeks out.

The main feature and they're the main human interest features on

Michael McCarthy journalism and talks a lot about how he got

into the sport from an early age.

Is a kind of a with with his dad attending the races and just the

top horses that he's trained is a trainer and an assistant

trainer. Made a Derby first time last

year with endlessly and we mentioned earlier today, but now

it looks like he has the the Derby, the likely Derby favorite

and he's he's certainly well positioned, has enough

experience I think to handle that pressure and be up to the

task. Very riskily aboard journalism

likely favored in the Kentucky Derby off his very good

performances out West. No, no, no issues for me for him

being a favorite, clear favorite, clear favorite in this

case. But Frank also, you know,

wrapping up that obs sale of the most recent one here by all

measures, as far as I can tell, very successful.

Finally, the weather playing along.

Any major takeaways from the from the sale itself?

I mean, first of all, I think I have to start with Governor

DeSantis appearing up, appearing on the second last day with the

decoupling issue going on that potentially could have really

had everybody involved questioning a little bit if they

should be investing in two year old unraised horses when there's

some unknowns in South Florida right now, mainly because of

that legislation. But to have him come there and

really back the industry, I think that was important.

Frankly, the sale was already doing pretty well even before he

came, but it was nice to have that reinforced.

And then the sale ends up having a record average, which is

terrific. Total nine horses sold for seven

figures. So really nice sale.

We like that the OBS has sponsored this outlet and maybe

we had a little something to do with that now.

I'm kidding about that. You know, really nice to see

that that performance in Florida.

And I think it provides a little bit of a a reminder that it that

people down there are in for the long haul.

They're not going to be scared off by by some of this nonsense

going on with the lawmakers. Yeah, no, but I I think your

your point about Governor DeSantis is is I hate to put all

the other things aside. It was the story of the obs sale

was his very not just his. It wasn't just verbal support

him showing up from Tallahassee. Frank, I agree with you.

I think that was a very I think it was a key movement.

And I think if I'm in the Legislature there, Legislature

there, I'm looking at that going, you know, maybe this

isn't the time to push this forward.

Yeah, I mean, I, I think he's obviously going to veto

whatever's past, but I, I think beyond that, I think because

this is it needs a, it's a Republican majority there.

So with the Republican governor taking the stance, I, I think

people that maybe lawmakers that were maybe a little bit slightly

in favor, I think we'll now be slightly opposed or, or beyond

that. I, I, it'll be interesting.

And I'm the political expert on Florida, I'm the expert on

Florida politics. But I, I think in general, I

think that's what we're looking at here and and it's certainly

what we hope. Yeah, no.

And you know, when we we deal with issues in Kentucky, it's a

different dynamic because we do have Republican majorities in

the houses and then we have a Democratic, you know, governor

in Florida. It's a different animal.

And you needed the governor to come out and say, hey, I'm on

this side of the line with you guys as far as party line.

But I'm against this issue. And I I, I'm with you, Frank.

I think that was really an important, an important moment

for, I think for a lot of people in Florida who saw all the work

that they've done for generations potentially just

going away because of one bill. Yeah, for sure.

It was really good to hear that support work on the future, but

it's good to have that have that in place.

Yeah, it's nice to have that kind of bump and I wanted to

thank everyone that worked on the coverage of the OBS sale and

certainly the representatives from OBS who gave us all the

great information, Todd and his team and certainly Olivia on

ours here at Blood Horse and bloodhorse.com.

Good wraps on the sales articles on that, I should say on the

sales@bloodhorse.com. You can go check out all those

things there as part of Blood Horse Daily as well.

If you have not subscribed after that, totally free to your inbox

every single day. And of course, we always want

you to get that physical magazine.

We'll put that QR code down at the bottom in just a second.

Frank, we appreciate you, buddy. Anything we should be looking

forward to on the website this week and of course as we get

into Derby? You know, just Sean's excellent

coverage continues. We really appreciate that Byron

King and it won't be long till we start having the previews of

all these races, the the Derby, the Oaks and so many other great

ones. A little torpedo Anna, the horse

of the year is preparing for the Latroian.

So you know this this race that this weekend, the Belmont Stakes

card and weekend and the Breeders Cup.

These these are the weekends that largely determine the

championships in our sport. So time to gear up.

That's right, six months apart, the Derby of the Breeders Cup,

just two spectacular weekends of racing.

Frank, we really thank you, of course, bloodhorse.com, for

everything Frank Angst related. We'll see you next week, buddy.

Thanks, Lou. That's right, of course, if you

want to get the magazine, get it on it right there.

Subscribe to Blood Horse magazine.

Just use the QR code there at the bottom.

Make that coffee table look even better with those beautiful

photos, including of journalism and Roberto recently this month

at Blood Horse. Go ahead, bloodhorse.com, go

check that out or hit the QR code on the screen right now.

I love those photos. I'm such a geek for a horse

photo. Oh I know, it's awesome they

picked a great one this month. It's beautiful, yes, you hear a

guy like Mike Smith too earlier in the episode talk about those

horses and how they they can change the course of your

career, your life, etcetera. Imagine being a numerator wrist

bleed your your whole reputation is is a turf and all this stuff.

And then you get a journalism and a Mike McCarthy and a

Wellman that the eclipse folks all trust you with this horse in

the biggest race on the planet. Man, what a spectacular.

And on top of that, too, remember back a couple years ago

when he rode Rock Your World to win the San Anita Derby and then

they took him off for the Kentucky Derby, didn't get a

chance to ride him in the Kentucky Derby.

For him to now, you know, just a few years later, be able to

bounce back, come back to the Derby with the favorite, that's

got to be huge for him. I can't wait for him to get here

next week. He's one of the people I want to

talk to the most next week. Just to hear how he's feeling

about, you know, now having this chance with the favorite, I'm so

happy for him. Yeah, should be, should be fun

once everybody totally arrives at all of those things.

Of course, after the Derby, we'll be talking Preakness and

having to do those things. We had a couple of Preakness

preps over the weekend, including the Tessio from Laurel

Park, and we had Pay Billy, who has been the best on that

circuit outside of Barbadian Runner, who is not in training

right now. Win that race.

I don't think authoritatively, but another horse that I

considered personally amongst the two or three best routing

horses in Maryland run second there.

Hey, Billy, do we have a potential to put a testimony?

Of course, the last one to win the Derby.

Excuse me, the Preakness out of the Tessio 1983.

I'm going to say no. And it's not a hateful thing.

It's just I don't think he's fast enough to deal with this

year's crop of three olds and how many didn't make the Derby

That'll be going straight to the Preakness that that group is,

what, 6-7 this year? Yeah, right now, right now it's

pretty deep. The horses that are probably

going to be pointing that way. So that's good.

We're having a already kind of thinking about, you know, having

a deep Preakness feel. I also like we also have the

Bathhouse Row Stakes this week. The replay gets.

A done instant replay. I like the way he looked winning

that race. I think he's going to be one of

those horses that's going to develop into one of those, you

know, those horses that are starting to pick up some of

these stakes races throughout the summer.

And then you kind of think towards the Traverse, but maybe

he's a little ahead of the curve here heading towards the

Preakness. So I think he's on the right

track right now. We talked to Brad about him a

couple weeks ago when we had Brad on the show and I know he

he thought pretty highly of them.

So I'm excited to see how he runs.

You know how how Brendan Walsh talked about East Ave. in the

Bluegrass not reverting back to what he did in the Risen Star?

I thought the same thing about instant replay this weekend.

He could have reverted to previous or just let horses go

by and he didn't do that right? He was willing to do the work in

the stretch there at Oakland Park.

And I think if you're in the Cox camp, you feel pretty good about

that effort moving into a Preakness field that again is

going to be long on quality, long long on quality.

Because I think many of those horses that would have tried say

the Pad de Mile or something ended up running in the

Lexington as a prep to go to Baltimore or ran in the

Bathhouse Row or in the Tessio, etcetera.

I think out of those three races, by the way, we'll have a

half dozen runners in the Preakness really.

Yeah, I like your. I think it's going to be.

There, I hope you're right and we'll always have to wait and

see how many of the Derby horses come back.

I know talking with Lonnie Briley a couple of times, it

sounds like as long as Cold Battle comes out of the Derby

healthy, they're already pretty much for the old school guys.

I know that. God for them.

He's already making Preakness and Belmont plans.

I know where Lucas is going to be.

Let's just. So yeah, Caldera ran better than

I thought he was going to. And the bathhouse row as well.

I think he'll be the previous. Yeah, I thought he was.

I thought he had no shot halfway through the stretch, and then he

dug in there and ran second. So that's another one.

And you know, American promise, if he runs well and comes out

healthy, he'll probably bounce back in the Preakness.

I thought to blanket on who won the the the Lexington this year.

It was the 6th horse under I read because I bet him, but the

but I, I, I just think there's several horses coming out of

that one as well. I just, I think this Preakness

is going to be good quality. 9/10/11 Horses 5 from the Derby,

half dozen from those other races.

And that's good that we're already, we're before the Derby,

we're already looking at a solid Preakness.

Field, I agree, Yeah, No, I think it's hopefully set up as

well with the winter heading there in that way.

We will do a Blood Horse Monday next week.

It will be a Derby week. Edition will be at the studios

of ESPN Louisville for that one. Callie Francois Intel will have

some guests and some other sound from from Sean.

Let's not pretend that's from Sean.

That's what Sean does. You can hear us all week on ESPN

Louisville from 7:00 AM to noon Monday through Thursday, 3 hours

on Oaks Day, 2 hours on Derby. We'll have local on track

coverage through our station there at ESPN Louisville, ESPN

louisville.com. You can stream it anywhere in

the world. Tuesday night, if you happen to

be here in the city of Louisville, we'll be out at a

restaurant called Blind Squirrel in the East End.

We've got the upstairs rented out and so come on out for our

annual Derby seminar. No cost to get in.

That'll be also on all of the Blood Horse socials.

If you are not here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky and

want to follow along, we'll get going at 7:00 PM Eastern next

week Tuesday. We'll remind you of that on the

next Blood Horse Monday as well. Derby week and a week, man.

And frankly, the draw had five days.

I cannot believe it's already here. 5 days and we're gonna

have, we're gonna have the last couple horses.

I think we're missing 6 of the 20 right now.

They're all gonna be filtering in over the next few days.

Journalism gets here tomorrow evening.

So I'm excited to see him. The Baffert horses will get in

on Thursday. Luxor Cafe, I think should

probably have landed in Chicago, hopefully by now.

So he'll be here soon. So it's getting exciting.

It's already, I mean, you were with me on Saturday.

You can start feeling that exciting start building already.

So starting to get busy around the barns a little.

Bit yeah, it's starting and it's.

A little earlier than it was last this year too, so I want

that. There's a lot of excitement this

year. You were surprised to see me on

Saturday. I didn't appreciate that at all.

Come on, I thought we were. I wasn't.

Expecting. Oh come on, Oh, come on.

Saturday works out of the Derby. I'm always there.

Wouldn't I know I was impressed? You earned.

You earned my respect this past weekend.

Well, I'll be out there again on Saturday.

We'll make sure that we've got to be.

Holding my camera still. How about you?

Probably. I appreciate that.

No problem. I'm an everyman, you understand.

I'm an everyman, You know, we get to the South end of

Louisville. All, all bets are off, but no

bets with our guy Sean Collins. I'm Louie.

Or both, thanks to Frank Angst. Thanks, of course, to jockey

Mike Smith for joining us on this week's rendition.

Brad Cox, Brendan Walsh, Whit Beckman, Steve Asmussen.

I missed 10. Bill Mott all joined us on this

episode as well. We appreciate that very much.

Derby week next week. We'll see you next week here on

BLOOD Horse Monday. He shot.

I'm Louis. Have a great week everybody.

The Blood Horse is dedicated to the improvement of Thoroughbred

breeding and racing for over 100 years.

Don't forget to like, subscribe and save Blood Horse Monday on

all your platforms. For the latest news, analysis

and insights, visit us at bloodhorse.com.

Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.