BloodHorse Monday 4/28/25 | Kentucky Derby 151 Preview

All right, welcome in. It is a Derby 151 week edition

of Blood Horse Monday alongside Sean Collins.

I'm Louis Ribose, special guest in from the Maryland Jockey Club

for the week is Cali Francois hanging out with us probably

over from Kentucky Downs as well.

Welcome in Cali. So nice to have you with us for

the week. But Sean been busy you're you've

been all over the backside you including with our guest to

start the show here. But man, I just early

impressions Derby it's been. Yeah, it's been Derby.

It's been Derby, hasn't it has been serious.

It's been very busy back there. Although I have to say I've not

had as busy as schedule as our guest has had in the last two

days, that's for sure. But yeah, it's been a lot of fun

back there. You can really feel the

excitement building on the. Backside, no doubt about it,

including this morning, Monday on the backside.

But yesterday, a work for journalism and a board

journalism was our guests were today he'll be a more of the

favorite in the Kentucky Derby. His name is Umberto Reese Bali

joins us from California. Made it back out yesterday after

not being able to make it outside.

At least you got to go to the draw, Alberto.

Yes, absolutely. Hi, guys.

Hi, good, good afternoon to you out there in California.

Hey, just how have the last couple of days been?

I know that hasn't been ideal, but get back to Cali, get some

good riding on Sunday, but certainly the morning work on

Sunday morning with journalism. How did he feel and how did

everything go? Well, as everybody know, they've

been a crazy couple the last two or 48 hours.

Fortunately, you know, the main, the main target was to have a a

great work on the horse. We all satisfied with that.

We're really happy the way then journalism handled the track and

from now to to suddenly just keep her finger crossed and

let's let's see what happened. You know, it's I don't, I feel

like we all know that jockeys are, you know, pound for pound,

the strongest athletes on the planet.

I always say they're the greatest athletes on the planet.

But just the devotion that these guys have in for you to fly all

the way out here just for a work try to fly back in time for

Santa Anita's races on Saturday. Ends up the flight gets

canceled. So you don't make it back, but

you stay, you work the horse, you fly back and win a stakes

race at Santa Anita on Sunday. Just you know, it's obviously

worth it when you have the Derby favorite, right?

But just see, what is the lifestyle like of a jockey for

you? Is that just come with the job?

Look, I think you know, when you signed to be a jockey, I know

when I signed 20 years ago, I knew it was a was a tough.

Unfortunately, you know, from from other perspective, we, we

are not really people didn't see us as a really tough athlete,

which as you say, Sean, I think we are for, for everything that

we go through keeping the weight to try to Don, to donate too

much and losing a lot of carry, cutting the weight during the

weekend. And look at the last, as I said,

the last 48 hours, they they've been crazy for me.

I think I'm not the only one person in this position during

all the year round. You know, once we talk between

each other, you know, sometimes when there is a jockeys and they

go from one track to another, it's always it's always a

difficult. And you know, fortunately we

don't we don't have the benefit of a private jet, which would be

more easy for everyone, for owners and trainers and jockeys.

But look, you know, I have to say thank you to to my agent

Martin and really helped me to find a flight to, to, to go back

to Louisville. We tried so hard to go back to

California to, to try to own my calls on Saturday, But there was

believe me, I wasn't that calm. I wasn't that calm Saturday.

Atlanta was really furious with Delta.

I was a furious with everybody. So but look, it was it was a

good to be at the draw was a positive day at the end of the

day, you know, once you made it, you made a home.

It's positive. And I was just skip my finger

crossed then that the flight didn't delay to Houston.

Everything went well and I was just right on time to ride the

stakes here yesterday. So it was.

It was a good. Well, I have to say, you looked

like you were in a good mood at the post draw, so I guess all

the frustrations of that land kind of got out of the way at

that point. Yes, that's true.

Yeah, it was now discussing your relationship with a trainer.

Trainer Michael McCarthy, of course, the trainer of your

Kentucky Derby mount. You talk a little bit about the

relationship that you've had with Michael.

You know, since just for, just to give everybody out there just

some quick numbers since March 1st passed 100 mounts.

You've ridden the most for Michael, 15 of those and five of

those have been winners. 2 seconds, 2/3.

Just talk. And I, I, we saw you at the barn

that morning when you did do that work with him.

Just discuss your relationship with Michael McCarthy a little

bit. Well, Michael is a, is a, he has

a character, you know, I, I really enjoy to work with him

because, you know, it comes from a long way.

It comes from a long way. Seems I came here in California

in two 2000 in 2020. He was a trainer then right away

put me on his horses. He was one of the trainer then.

You know about me a little bit. He was, you know, he documented

himself about my career and you know, funny things that the

first I think the first two or three rides I have for him are

the three winners, probably same horse name was a hoodie.

So it comes from there. And all of a sudden, at some

point I told him one day at the on the morning, I say, once

you're going to give me a steak source, you know, I think we had

a 7500% and stuff like that. So I'm ready to go.

He said, I know when is the right time to, to, to give you a

good one. So he comes from a long, long

relationship like that. We getting closer in the last

two years more. I'm writing a lot for him and he

just like, you know, I, I like to share my opinions when I

work, when I work horses with him, I'm straightforward.

He knows then if I don't feel anything good, I'm, I'm, I'm

there to tell him because we, we win as a team.

We lose as a team. So we need to, we need to

communicate. And I think that's the best, you

know, coming from Europe, in Europe, we really love to share

opinions with the trainers and we are on the same boat.

So some of the trainers didn't see that as I can.

I, I figure in the United States in the last five years, you

know, they think then you want to teach them how to do the job.

That's not the case. It's just like the relationship

then you know, you wake up every day, 5:45 or 4:30, you go work

horses. It's because you want to get the

best out of them. So but the relationship, you

know, it's even close. Our family are close as well

with Michael and look, I'm so, so happy then this opportunity

come along for us. We have an opportunity last

year, obviously endlessly, they give us the first testing of the

Kentucky Derby together. Journalism is a different

animal, a different horse, a dirt surface source as a

difference. I was as was endlessly.

So let's open in the The dream will come true.

Jockey Roberto Rispoli here with us on Blood Horse Monday.

He'll be aboard favorite journalism in Kentucky Derby 151

this coming Saturday. And Roberto, you have experience

riding in the Derby. How important do you think it is

to have had that kind of experience heading into a race

like this, especially with one that frankly you're expected to

perform pretty well in? Yeah, I mean, I think I think

it's very important. It's very important to have

already a couple of Kentucky Derby on my back.

Obviously the first one, I was a really, really emotion.

I have emotion everywhere. You know, it was a for

everything happened around me, you know, to be on on the

favorite like a couple of weeks before a Rocky award and then to

handle that end up on the Brooklyn Strong, which I would

say still thank you to Mark Schwartz for their opportunity.

You know, he gave me a taste taste of the day about the week,

what you smell when you go in the morning.

You can see you can learn a lot how to handle the pressure, how

to deal with you guys media, how to how to understand more about

the truck. The the, how important is this

raises for every single owner and the funny things is then at

the time, then they call us to walk to the paddock.

In your mind, even if you are on 100% and under under to one shot

in your mind, you say I have the chance to win the Kentucky Derby

today. It can happen, you know.

So you go to the paddock with a full of confidence and of

course, going to the favorite, it would be different.

Going with with one of the favorite is different.

But once you're there, you want to win.

You're part of the 20 horses and you try to to do the best and

try to shine and do as best as you can.

So definitely was a worth of experience.

Hopefully will help me on this one.

Now go ahead, John. Well, you mentioned, you know,

rock your world. You won the Santa Anita Derby

with him back in 2021 and the connections decided to go with a

jockey who was more experienced in the Derby over you.

You did end up picking him out that you're in Brooklyn strong.

But what was what were the emotions like when that happens?

And does it feel like almost a sense of redemption that now,

just a few years later, you're back with with not just one of

the favorites, but with the favorites of the race?

Look at that point, I think then I handle in a very professional

way because I was proud of myself.

I'm a very impulsive person and I could have killed somebody

that day, really. But you know, obviously you

know, you're dreaming like you came here in United States two

years, two years after you one of the one of the most beautiful

Durb in the country and you're ready to go for the for the

master. So when that call happened,

obviously I was sad. I was frustrated.

I was upset because it's not then they take you off because

you you got beat with a horse because you win with a horse.

So from the other angle, I can say then as much of people

doesn't know much. I mean, if the people doesn't

know a lot about you, like I was a claiming anyway to United

States with a bag of experience on my back.

So I want to go to grade one everywhere.

Thanks God, wherever I've been, I was a capable to to ride with

the best riders in the world, riders for greatest trainer and

owners. So that's why I didn't I didn't

understand that from the other side.

I could understand then the the, the, the how to say that the

fact that Joel Rosati and John said that they've been together

for such a long time and they were were a really strong

relationship. And on the other side, you, if

you pause for one second, you say, well, you would love a

train of things like that about you and which you on the Derby

and take off the other rider. So that's why I think I really

handle in a in a good way. I have a lot of people there was

try to make me do an article to try to do some bad words in that

I just I just leave it like that and I think it was the best way

to handle. So probably, you know, that's

was a gift from from the sky having a journalism to ever.

There's a big opportunity and you know, you don't have to go

there and think it's the only one shot you can have in your

life. You have to go there and join

the moment. But of course, so far, this is

the best shot I could have in in my life to go to win the

Kentucky Derby. Yeah, absolutely.

And you know, discussing, you've been all around the world and

done a lot of different things. Is there any other racing

experience, you know, race that you've ridden that has kind of a

similar type of experience to the Kentucky Derby?

Or is the Kentucky Derby just really a one-of-a-kind around

the world? I would say it's very unique.

It's unique in the United States because it's the race you can

win the Breeders Cup Classic, you can win, you can win a lot

of Breeders' Cup, but the taste of the smell of the death, the

important how important is the race is different of any other

race in the in the States. Obviously I've been lacking

France to ride the the arc triumph, which it's the most one

of the most important reasons we have in Europe.

I wrote that the Gold Cup Ascot, which it's the was the race of

the Queen. I've been at the Champion Stakes

Ascot. Unfortunately I never been, I

never been for the for the Melbourne Cup, but I win for one

of the prep and it was amazing feeling too.

My father-in-law, Gerald Moss, he won, he won the Melbourne

Cup. It was the first French and he

said Michael Jackson next to me was nobody.

So it makes you makes you thinking like how important is

the Melbourne Cup for Australian people?

Is it the race? You know, it's like in America,

that's and same for Hong Kong. You know when you won the Uncle

Derby, everybody they want to win the Uncle Derby or you win

some of the biggest like the Queen Elizabeth happened to me

or one of the international races.

So every race in every different states, it's the race.

And in America, definitely is the Kentucky.

There'll be no doubt about it. Now you're from Italy.

I know a lot of the jockeys that are from the United States,

they're from Central or South America that are up here.

A lot of them, you know, grow up wanting to be a jockey because

they dream of winning the Kentucky Derby in Europe.

Is that like, you know, a realistic goal for you guys that

are riding out there? Is winning the Kentucky Derby

something that is on your radar or does it just seem so far

fetched since it's, you know, mostly turf racing over there?

Well, to be honest with you, my dream is the the arbitrary of

that was my dream, my goal and the Breeders Cup Turf.

Now you're going to ask me why the Breeders Cup Turf?

Because I think it's the most quality race on the card of the

Breeders Cup. I mean the back in the days, I

do remember when Johar and Hai Chaparral did it in the Breeders

Cup, we had an Italian horse over there, Falbrov then run

third Storming Gorman was in that race.

I think Shamerdal was in that race too.

So it was imagine not much of quality those those those horses

Australians now they produce a so many good horses all around

the world. And you know, as obviously we

grew up on a turf in Europe. It's the same when you look at

Dubai, the Shima Classics are one of the tough and the Dubai

turf for the toughest reasons on the card open.

You know, when I say toughest means then every single horse

can really won that race. Most of the time on the dirt,

it's it it can end up at the top of the stretch in a match race,

you wouldn't see four or five horses battling, you know,

sometimes getting closing 2 lengths for the grade one like

happening in those races. So but definitely the arc was it

was already a privilege to to to ride that race.

And you know, it's still in my bucket list.

Why not one day all? Right.

Well, he's a better resplu be for the favorite this weekend in

the Kentucky Derby. But I know Callie has a

question. For you, so you know, just to

actually tie into Sean's question, you know, you talk

about you talk about what you would dream of as a kid, but you

are known, not so known football, American soccer fan.

What do you and I know you're obsessed with it.

You love football. What do you have any particular

inspirations from either a player or any connections in the

game, or just even principles that you've taken from just

consistently, constantly watching soccer and just

applying it as a jockey? You know, for a, for us, it's a

religion. That's what we call football.

You guys, you call them. I mean, it's American football

for you, but football for us, it's a religion almost whether

when you come from Napoli, you know, we ever, we probably have

one of the greatest, if not the greatest player in the, in the

world was Maradona. I do.

I do not have the chance to see Maradona playing.

But you know, as I said, it's religion.

Once you grow up, even my kid then he's only seven, he knows

was Maradona. So obviously I, I have a few

football players then for me, they were an inspiration and

then career. But you know, it would be easy

to some mention some big names and as a as a Sean knows.

Then we were talking the other day as a as a tough

neighborhood. I come there is some some a lot

of players. Then they have a tough, tough

journey, you know, to get the goal and you know, you try to

not only inspire but even learn something.

How they get there, how they get the goal, how hard work there is

behind every behind all of these.

So when I start riding, I was just a simple guy from a simple

kid from Napoli and I was coming from absolutely nowhere because

where I come from there is no horse racing.

I mean, I was lucky then my dad was a jockey and inject me that

in, in my veins. So, and everything starts from

there. Obviously my, my high goal in

the foot in the football is Cristiano Ronaldo.

I always admire the fact that he comes from nowhere.

It's a guy then you like, or you hate him, you know, and, but I

think it's because he has, he has a tough past, you know, and

you can't blame him if you enjoy his life right now and you know,

he achieved what he achieved in the, in the, in the sport.

But there is there is other other people with the class out

there. There is so many, so many

people. Then you know, it's good to have

a lot of how to say a lot of athlete with a, with a rough

pass, then they made it. That's that's how you you take

advantage from it. Who has more talent in their

given sport, Ronaldo or journalism?

That's tough. I would say.

I would say, I would say they build together the the muscles

wise they pretty good. I will be 1010 to both of them.

They. They actually, they actually

pretty similar. Sean.

That was a good question. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Well, it'll be all the Oh, he's thinking about it still all

right. He's.

He's going to have a. Full answer for you tomorrow.

He's going to have a full breakdown when he gets here.

Tomorrow. There you go.

No, that's right. He'll be here outside.

I mean, you know, it's, it's always tough when people ask

Ronaldo, Messi, it's. Oh, sure, yeah.

Possible. Yeah, I mean you.

You are. Hearing the journalism question

a lot more frequently. Yeah, I mean, it's, you can't

choose between them. I think they, both of them, they

special in each different ways, you know, and some people likes

Ronaldo, some people takes Messi, so I take journalism.

Roberto, I'll get you out of here on this.

Thank you so much for your time and and safe trips, by the way,

on the track and in the planes coming back here.

Look, every time I get to interview a jockey or a trainer,

I always ask them if they dream about the Kentucky Derby

winner's circle or whatever it might be.

Have you allowed yourself, even before this start with

journalism or maybe just because of him?

Do you allow yourself to dream about that moment?

Oh, yes, you know when, as I said, you know, once you came

here, you just hear that word all the year around.

That word starts from the Breeders Cup time.

And, you know, sometimes you go see babies in the paddock and

they say, oh, the sources in 2-3 years it can be at the Kentucky

Derby. So that words is constantly in

in your life, in your journey. So you hear about that, you

dream about that. And you know, happened to me in

the last, I would say last couple of years when I'm going

running around the Churchill Downs track before races to drop

some pounds. You know, you always walk and

you look at the winning circle. But I said it's no way I'm going

to stand up in the winning circle if I don't win that race.

No, I'm not going to do that. No chance.

I get it. Yep, he's a better raspily for

journalism on Saturday. Safe travels, Roberto, we'll see

you back here at Louisville. And thank you so much for

joining us here on BLOOD Horse Monday.

Thanks. Thanks for having me, guys.

Thank you. Thank you.

Vera raspily here, all the program appreciate him very

much. If you are wondering who's in

the middle here, this is Callie Francois hanging out with Sean

and me here. Louis Rabo in the studios of BSP

at Louisville. By the way, we should mention

that Louis good job radio guy in your home with studio here.

I actually usually work across the hall.

These are the nice people. I don't think that's what it is.

I think I'm just not great at this.

So yeah. But hey, something I always

close with that question because I'm always fascinated by because

he even mentioned it during the interview.

The four, the the alarm clock starting with four, starting

with five the whole year, hearing the words Kentucky Derby

all year. Whenever I get to interview

people there, I I love how honest they are.

They're like, yes, yes, I, I dream about this.

Yes, I think about it. I won't walk into that.

Winners. We can all relate to that with,

with superstition or whatever it might be.

I appreciate when we have someone like Roberto on and he's

willing to just say, yeah, of course I've dreamt about like,

what are we doing here? Like, you know, like, of course

This is why we're here. I also love his confidence.

I want to give him a lot of credit because I, I, he could

hide from this. I have not sensed that from him

at all. I think he's very ready for the

moment, whatever that's going to look like on Saturday.

And so appreciate Roberto jumping on there because I do

think there's value in his last two mounts.

And I know Brooklyn Strong is not what he thought he was going

to have for his first mount, but I think there's value in it.

I think he did a good job on endlessly last year.

Frankly, even though the top ten finish is really good with that

horse was running really well at the end.

It rated him well that. Way shuffled all the way to the

back, yeah. So and those rides are going to

be in the back of his head. I agree when he gets into the

when he gets into the gates here on the favorite for, you know,

favorite for now for the Kentucky Derby.

So when you're coming in with that kind of mentality, there's

a that's a, it's a bullseye eye on the prize thing that and

typically nobody's getting in anybody in his way once the

gates open, that's. Exactly right.

Any takeaways for you? Yeah, well, now I got to start

watching a little bit more soccer to keep up with Umberto

so that way I can get him with a, get him with a different

analogy next time, I mean. Callie and I were here but he

said the word Sean like 5 times. So like, you got to start

watching soccer he's ready for. You I know he's ready for I'm

going to have to come at him with a new question next.

Time. That's exactly.

Right. You know, speaking.

Of I, I got to say I got to say I I appreciate him being honest

about frustrations with travel and and being taken off mounts.

Whatever. You're totally right though.

By the time we got to the draw, he had pulled a ton of that back

in. I I'm with you now at the that.

Might have been because of post 8.

Though surely talking about after the draw if.

It was post one, it might have been different.

No, we saw right before the draw actually.

Did we see? We did he.

Did he did because we offered to do like 3-4 minutes after the

draw. Let's just do Monday.

Days are all blurring. Fair enough.

Yeah, No, I just, I've, I've appreciated his confidence in

general. He's he's not, he's not

overconfident or anything, but he's just been hey, I belong

here. This is where I'm supposed to

be. And no, I, I like that about

him. So it makes me think that

journalism is gonna get the trip that he needs on Saturday.

Whether he wins or not, I have no idea.

It's a Kentucky Derby. Yeah, but I he's gonna be there.

I mean, if I, if I had to bet on him being there, he's gonna be

there. Speaking of being where you need

to be, Kelly, this is your first Kentucky Derby that your.

First experience and. What are your first impressions?

Well, first of all, I for my first Kentucky Derby experience

and getting to share it with blood horse and be on having

blood horse be a part of that experience.

I mean, how can you beat that? So it's been, you know, I've

just coming over from Maryland. I'm it's kind of like coming

home in the sense of there are a lot of people that I haven't

seen in a while that I've just I and I it's and I experienced

this. I Louis, I've told you time and

time again, Sean, I might have touched on it with you, but I

felt it when I was in Kentucky Downs.

I was like, oh, this feel this. It just, it feels so nice.

And I get the same feeling coming on to Churchill Downs.

Louis, what was your first Derby?

And I already. Justify.

There you go. Tell me about that.

Experience 2018. It's interesting I didn't know

Bleep about horse racing. Like I had no business having a

credential of the Kentucky Derby.

And it was after that Derby that we decided to start the horse

racing happy hour because Mike and I embarrassed ourselves so

badly. But what's hilarious is I gave

out the winning trifecta. I did the cake with free before

cake with free. But I but but I was on radio and

I look like this and all the things, but it's a listen I that

first experience. So it rained the whole day and

it was still a freaking blast. Yes, that's how I knew OK, I can

do this forever and never get tired of it was that it rained

over 3 inches. The clouds didn't move.

Callie, I'm telling you, we were building arcs by race 6 like it

was. It was that bad.

Like we were gathering 2 giraffes, 2 zebras, like we were

getting everybody together because it was raining.

That much did. Anybody have any floaties?

Did you get? The guy walking around selling

trash bags made so much money Oh my God I believe.

That my first Derby wasn't yeah, much drier than yours.

It was the very next year, 2019. So I just you know, I'm a big I

love the dirt. First one ever attending first

one ever attending or was my first one going.

But my first credential 1 was just, well, my first.

I was lucky I got to go to the Preakness too.

That year was great. There you go.

But yeah, 2019 was my first one I ever got to go to.

I grew up dreaming of the day I get to go to 1 Derby.

And I was probably the only person that was happy about the

disqualification. Not that I had any money on

either of the horses, but just because I was glad that my first

Derby was so historic. It was the first time a horse

ever got disqualified from a racing infraction.

So that was a pretty cool thing for me.

And that was also the first year I did all three legs of the

Triple Crown in one year. So yeah, it was a yeah, that was

a good year for me. I also I.

I'm of Will Preakness there, Tyler, up the up the rail

that's. Right.

I just remember another good part about that disqualification

was there was a moment where I could.

See that disqualification? Well, I could.

See the country house where I was standing at like the 8th

bowl country house was flying up on the outside of horses and I

couldn't see maximum security was still re rallying on the

inside yes and so I had that moment where I saw country house

and I'm like there's the Kentucky Derby winner and then

he lost and I felt disappointed and he would and I was all happy

so all worked out you're. Complicated man, Shawn, moment

by moment again, Lou, we were both Shawn Collins and Kelly

Francois hanging out with you on Ball the Horse Monday.

Thanks again to Uberto Rizpoli for joining us in the first

segment. It is interesting.

I like your question about soccer, by the way, because I

think an underrated thing that happened last year after the

Derby was was Brian Hernandez Junior talking about watching

film of other jocks in the Derby.

So he talked about how much Kelvin Burrell influenced him in

his Derby rights. And you saw Mystic Dan do

exactly that, right? And so it was interesting to

hear him say it's actually the process that's most interesting

about soccer players, right? How they have to, excuse me,

rise through ranks in a similar way that jockeys do.

By the way, Naples, best city in Italy.

I'll say it. I'll say it.

He's not even on here. How about that?

What's up? I'll ask.

I'll. Ask him and get back to him.

Do you know why it's the best? Because it was the port city for

the Roman Empire and they have something of everything from all

the different eras. That's.

Actually. Very.

It's awesome. So the food's interesting.

Everything. Yeah.

So that's all of the good stuff that way.

So. All right, well, we have other

things to get into today for sure, but we have tons of sound

from the barn because Sean works here and.

You need to set up a cop for me on the backside of the

racetrack. Do you know the shape of it

actually is? We used to have an apartment

above this studio as part of our rental deal here and they had to

give it up a couple years ago because so many students wanted

to live here, which is great. Of course.

It's nice that you have all became residential around the

time that you were here actually.

And but guys used to like go backside, come here, crash for

an hour and go back and do radio or whatever.

That would be nice. Yeah.

But of course I got rid of that right before I got here.

So yeah, of course. There you go.

But yeah, I look just tons of good things going on as far as

the backside And, and, and just, you know, we, we happen to be

there when when when Japan St. was was ruled out of the Derby,

that kind of stuff. We always have these moments.

We, we, we always, I think, I think it's not even a, an

irrational thought. I think we just hope that the 20

horses they draw are just going to be the ones that make it to

the gate, right? We just hope that they're just

going to be the ones. And this invariably always

happens to us this way. But I, I think generally

speaking, Cali, one of the things that's caught you off

guard is just sort of the serious nature of being on the

backstretch of Churchill ahead of Derby.

Or at least the more like it's a little tighter.

I think that you thought it was going.

To be here's here's the thing. I come from Preakness land and

like this is the party and so is the week leading up into it.

Louis, you were you and I were on air earlier and you made a

reference that I think was spot on.

It's kind of like the mat being at the masters a little bit.

It's a little bit of the vibe it's.

Supposed to be gaitlin but it's actually Derby weed.

Yeah, exactly. So just very just everybody's

very focused here, but focused in the sense where, I don't

know, I feel like you can be focused and fun at the same

time, but everybody's very serious about what's going on.

Derby we can, why not? It's completely understandable.

No, that's right. A lot of eyeballs on this thing.

I don't know, 2 1/2 NBA Finals games worth on a 2 minute race.

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today first bet dot com. Appreciate them hanging out with

us. Hey, they're hanging out with us

six days this week. They're gonna be at the seminar

tomorrow night. We will be on all the blood

horse socials tomorrow night as well.

If you can't make it out, it's a blight school restaurant in the

East End of Louisville here. But Sean, let's get into some of

the sound from earlier in this week and the different folks

around the barn. We were able to bump through a

bunch of these last week. People seem to really like

these. So we're gonna do these again

this week. Where would you like to start?

Because at the draw you get a real a real amalgam of people.

It's trainers, it's jocks, it's owners, it's connections in

general. We got a little bit of average.

Yeah, so you got to talk with Jason Werth.

I got to talk with Tom Ryan, of course on the on the citizen

Bowl and and Rodriguez side of things.

And then, you know, we've got sound from thou friend of the

he's friend of the show at this point, first friend of the show

Michael Banahed to first two time appearance.

Yes. Yeah, I think so, right.

Unless did we have any of the trainers last week that were on

before maybe? But I'm gonna go with Banahed

'cause I like him and. Well then, should we start with

Banahed? Let's start with Banahed.

We caught up with him after the draw here.

Of course, Sovereignty on the Colt side here.

The 18 is interesting, Sean, because it is outside.

Let's not pretend. I know it's there's no auxiliary

gate anymore and all those things, but 18 is still outside

his running style. We think he can overcome.

No guarantees in the Derby, of course, but here are Michael

Banahan's thoughts. We caught up with him post draw.

Well, we're here with Michael Banahan of Godolphin at the

draw. Michael, you had three horses

that drew post positions today, two in the Derby, one in the

Oaks. So let's start with E Ave. in

the Derby Post position #12 just what you think of it.

I think it's a good spot for him really.

As long as we didn't get drawn down one or 2-3, something like

that, we were going to be happy. Didn't want to get drawn away on

the outside either for a speed or speedy or type of horse.

So I think 12 would be fine. I think we're happy with that

draw. When we talked to you on the

podcast a few weeks ago, it was after Owen or after E Avenue had

kind of run that questionable race in the Risen Stark.

Now we've seen him come back, bounce back in the Bluegrass

Stakes. Just what do you think of that

performance and how does that set him up for the Derby?

And we were really excited to see the performance that he put

up in the Bluegrass. He had to answer some questions

that day. And I think he did them in no

uncertain terms, you know, just got beaten at the wire.

But he did everything that we wanted them to do.

And so we're looking forward to going on to the race next

Saturday and we think he's as good a chance as anyone in

there. Now, sovereignty, he drew wide.

He's out there in post 18, but for a deep closer.

Does that really matter for a horse like him?

I don't really think so. As long as again along, as long

as we're getting drawn right on the inside, give Junior plenty

of opportunities. And as we know even in the first

turn and the drop in there, it can get, they can choke them up

a little bit if you're on the inside.

So I think it would be a good spot for him out there as well.

He's going to get a get a nice run around there I think and

probably just stay a little bit on the outside, lose a bit of

ground. But I'll be fine for him and as

long as he's clear sailing at the half mile pole and we'll be,

we'll be happy with that I think.

Well, he's coming off the second in the Florida Derby.

Junior did not ride him in that race because he was out injured.

But you know, he still ran a fantastic race in there and a

lot of people are still considering him to be one of the

top favorites in this race. Just what does that say about

him? The fact that he can run second

that race but still be considered a favorite for the

Derby? Yeah, like we saw it down there

in the Florida Derby. The winner had a good draw on

the inside, was on the speed the whole time and as Gulfstream

does anyway. And he was on the outside, was

wide around that whole first turn.

Manny couldn't get him dropped into the inside, onto the gun on

the backstretch. So I think that little bit of

background that he lost there was probably significant enough.

And Manny wrote him well, but didn't doesn't didn't know him

as well as Junior. And I don't know if he had as

much confidence in knowing him because he hadn't written him

before, but it was great to see him get to the 8th pole and

you'll cut down the distance on the leader by half but haven't

got to the wire closing out galloped out strong.

It was a good race coming back off a four week layoff and after

running, you know, probably a better race than we thought he

wouldn't be able to run in the fount of the youth.

So we were very pleased and we're pleased that we had five

weeks from the Florida Derby coming in here.

Regroup a little bit. He's train and super up here.

We have that wind under her belt in the street sense at Churchill

where he looked very good. So a lot of positives to for us

to to hang our hat on for going into the Derby really.

Well, Speaking of positives to hang your hat on, you have the

undefeated good cheer, the Kentucky Oaks, who looks like

she's going to be the clear favorite in this race.

She draws post #11 So what do you think of that post and how

good is this Philly coming into this race?

Honestly I think any post will be fine for her.

She we've all seen the ability ability that she's shown so far.

She's 3 for three at Churchill. She's won on a sloppy track,

good tracks. She's great tactical awareness

and speed to put herself in a good spot.

Luis Hayez knows her very well and gets on well with her, so I

wouldn't trade her for anyone else.

She's been really one of the top Phillies this entire year, the

entire lead up to it. You've won the Kentucky Oaks

before with pretty mischievous just a few years ago.

How does she kind of obviously different running styles, but

how does she compare as far as like her training preparation

coming into this race as pretty mischievous to.

She's on the phases, she's on the phases.

So look, she's a really good Philly and we were confident

with pre mischief would be two in there that year with wet

paint as well. And sort of like sovereignty and

East Avenue, the complimentary run themselves.

One was going to be on the lead, one was coming off the pace.

And you know, we we we thought pre mischievous would run a big

race and we were, you know, she had a great time down the

fairgrounds. She didn't win the Fairground

Oaks, but she won the Rachel Alexander and, and we thought

she was coming in to race perfect, you know, and she was

actually drawn away on the outside.

She was 14. But she had enough speed to get

herself a good spot behind me after the first turn.

But I think, you know, with good cheer.

She's so professional, so uncomplicated, so classy.

We can do anything we want with her.

You know, she's been easy, easy Philly to train for Brad, he

just gets her out there every day and she does what she needs

to do, you know? And to have a Philly like that

makes everyone's job a lot easier.

Well, thank you for taking the time with us here, Michael.

Thank you for the updates on all your horses and we wish you the

best of luck here coming up this week.

I appreciate it. Thanks very much.

Fingers crossed. Called Banahan, friend of the

show, by the way. It's insanely nice.

But anyways, there's a great moment right before that

interview that I think the the listening audience needs to

know. So we spot Michael at the front

and we noticed that for once the man is not completely surrounded

by 100 other people, right? He lives a life surrounded by

people. And we're like, oh, OK, cool.

I was like, do we want to get Manahan?

And your response was of course we want to get Manahan.

That knocks out three horses here.

Of course we want to talk to Manahan, and so the three of us

make our way differently through the crowd.

It's a draw. It's busy, you know, we're all

making our way through. Cali's in the middle, Sean's to

my left, I'm on the far right. Flake in the group and we we all

emerge at the same time as though from a fog and poor

Michael Banahan has to actually take a step back because all

three of us bombs are that close to the poor guy and he's just I

laughed so hard I had to walk away for five seconds because I

had to bend over and just laugh for five seconds.

But thank you, Michael for. Joining us here.

Sorry for swarming we. Apologize for that.

I want to talk about East Avenue.

I'm fascinated by this horse going into the Derby.

Sean knows this about me. I think he's the fastest horse

in the Kentucky Derby. I think we are wildly

underrating his bluegrass and the performance in that race.

Going a mile into Nick. If he holds on by a nose, I

think we're talking about him in a very, very different way.

This is second in this new form cycle for him after they

admitted they don't know what happened in the Risen Star.

Am I reading too much into this? Am I overthinking this?

Because I, I think he's really fast.

He's obviously we've seen him work.

He's physically built for this race.

I mean, all the things make sense as far as the connections,

the breeding, everything else. I, I, I'm trying not to

overthink this horse, but I think he's a major contender on

Saturday. I agree.

I, it's, it's really nice to see that improvement after just

that, you know, really huge question mark performance that

we saw. So we kind of saw what we expect

out of the old E Avenue. I, however, just my personal

opinion, I sit with your same situation just on the other side

of the coin, because when you get horses like that and

sometimes with the way these derbies work, I just have this.

I wouldn't be surprised if he they just kind of got, he got

slammed. Yeah, sure kind of thing.

So I think once we get to that 16th out, that's where the real

questioning for him begins. So that's I'm kind of sitting a

little bit on the back foot on that.

I think even Michael is, I don't think they know what to expect

race to race with him. I do know that they are very

happy that he could have done what he did in the Risen Star,

the Bluegrass that he didn't right.

I mean, he could have folded again.

What are your thoughts on Jeff just on that's?

Exactly what Brendan Walsh told me is the fact that he had every

single reason to do what he did in the Risen Star in the

Bluegrass, and he didn't. He stayed in there, he battled

and he almost won the race. He's been training fantastic.

He's been one of the horses that, you know, being back there

that everybody like every day when he goes by, oh, that's E

70. Oh, that's E 70.

Oh, he looks great. And so he's one of those horses

that you keep hearing that about every day.

He's going to be one of those buzz horses for sure.

I. I I'm of the opinion that this

year it's going to be hard for anyone to win if they're up on

the lead. I think anybody who's rarely

within those first three spots, assuming everybody breaks, if

everybody that we expect to go up goes, I think anybody that's

in those first three spots, maybe even those first five.

Spots 40 Horsefield assumptions, yeah.

Exactly I know so now somebody's going to go up there and run a

48 half mile, but so you know I. Looked at Sovereignty's on the

lead. What are we doing?

So, you know, we look at that and but it's going to be tough

for him. But I do think the bluegrass was

a huge positive and I think he could definitely take a step

forward here. But we've also seen where on the

big stage of the Breeders Cup, you know, he had that stumble

out of the gate and nowhere to be found.

So he's hard to trust. Sovereignty, I think is of the

two Godolphins, he's the one I trust a little bit more.

I think no matter what the pace scenario is, he's going to come

with his run. And so that gives me just a

little bit more confidence on his end.

I don't know if he's going to be able to get there by the end of

it, depending on what the paces, but I do think he's at least

going to make that. Run second place finisher in the

Florida Derby. Looks a lot like Mage coming

into this, but I think more talented than Mage, yeah.

Well, and you know, going off of what Michael said a little bit,

you know, talking about the beginning trip of the Florida

Derby, yes, that was a little bit of unfortunate.

But as you watch, if you go back on all of this guy's all all of

his finishes, you gradually start to see a horse that's a

little bit more push button a little.

He has a little bit quicker of a turn of foot.

That's something that's going to be very essential and much

needed here and coming down the stretch for 1:51.

Yeah, and I think you saw that in his workouts where even Bill

Mott was like he's a little keyed up, but it's because he's

taking those cues a little bit better than he probably was

before. They're, you know, they're

making the adjustments for that. More of a maintenance work this

last weekend for him that a real speed work.

Not mad about that at all. I think sovereignty the best of

the closures in this race. Do you agree with that?

Yes. Probably, yeah.

Of the deep closers, the ones that I think are going to be in

like that back. As opposed to like final or a

flag Mohawk or something like that?

Yeah, I definitely think that he's probably the best as I, you

know, I like, I liked what I saw on the maintenance work that he

just had yesterday. I was a little concerned about

him actually in the week in between because he he was

looking great leading up to the first work.

And then that week in between the 1st and 2nd work, there were

a couple mornings where he came out got a little sweaty and you

know that I hadn't seen that in the first week.

So that gave me a little concern.

I mean, I talked to Bill Mott about it yesterday.

He said that that's just normal for him.

Hasn't been super hot here, especially in the mornings.

It's been some chilly. Does not appear to be this

coming weekend either. Yeah.

But it appears like from what Mott told me, it was essentially

that he just gets worked up and he gets amped up and morning.

So that's not too surprising. So if that, you know, hopefully

that that's the case. But you know, he had me a little

concerned, but I did think his breeze looked pretty good the

other day, so I'm less concerned.

This is going to sound like a sports talk radio question and I

but I mean it. Are we underrating good cheer?

Are we potentially like just looking around her trying to

find value in that? Race.

No, I'm not. I've been on her since I don't.

Love her, but I don't like, I talked with Callie this morning

and I like I see six to five in the form.

I'm like, there's no way she's there's no way she's even money.

I mean, she's way below that by the time we get to the post.

I mean, I don't know. I would be.

I would not be surprised you're. I would not.

You might. Yeah.

I wouldn't be surprised if this Philly.

She's like 4 to 5 or something, yeah.

Right. I I wouldn't be surprised, yeah.

I guess that's not too terrible. I don't have the six to five,

Yeah. I'm going to say she's not going

to go below even money. I think that's impossible in a

racing the Kentucky Oaks fourteen horses with the you

know, the popularity of the race.

There's going to be people watching on national TV that are

going to be betting on it that you know aren't racing

followers. I.

Feel like Grey Horse are betting a name?

I think in a race like the Derby in the Oaks, I think it's almost

impossible to get a odds on favorite with the exception of

like a year like tis the law in 2020 and the Derby where, you

know, we were saw where, you know, it was later in the year,

the horses were more developed and you could see that.

I think it's it's just going to be hard.

I don't think she'd be even money.

I think she deserves to be even money.

There we go. But I don't think that she would

be. There you go.

All right, again, thanks to Michael Manahan.

Friend of the show Michael Manahan here.

One horse funded. Sean Collins.

Lerbo Kelly, Francois hanging out with you.

What's up, Speaking of Friends of the Show, Well, how about we

get on the horse who just made it into the Kentucky Derby this

year? Render Judgement who draw in

after to pan the streets. I love that I got to do this

interview. I know this is spectacular.

So Brooke Smith, who was a co-owner of Sierra Leone 2nd

place finisher in the Derby last year, he's a fan of the show.

He's probably watching us right now.

Hey, Brooke. And we're going to embarrass you

right now by putting your by putting your interview up here.

So let's I disagree. I've been around.

This is not his most embarrassing moment.

I disagree. But here's Brooke Smith.

He did get in on rendered judgment kind of late stages.

And then, of course, as happens in the Derby, one man's

unfortune is another man's fortune.

And so here's Brooke Smith talking rendered judgment.

We caught up with him as well at the Derby draw on Saturday.

All right, here with owner Brooke Smith, Rendered judgments

team for this year's Derby. I bet you don't get tired of

getting to sit at one of these, do you?

Who would? I mean, it's a gorgeous night.

It's a Saturday before the Kentucky Derby.

I mean, come on. It's a good stuff.

Brooke, Render judgement draws in today.

Where were you when you got the news?

I was right here. Right here.

OK. But I'll tell you this after

after the whole Sierra Leone Derby and then the Breeders Cup

Classic, which is still had sunk in.

You know, it's the whole thing about this is a community.

And I always loved Kenny Mcpeak, ran into him here and there.

And I was like, Kenny, who do you who do you have that you

think might have a shot that might someone might be willing

to sell a piece of? And, you know, he got back to me

and he said, you know, really like the owners of rendered

judgments. It's an interesting story.

I mean, Toby Keith, you know, God rest his soul.

We got into horses, horse racing kind of later and they said,

hey, we'd make some room for you if you're interested.

And I don't really like this horse.

I don't know if he'll, you know, if he's, I think he's a Derby

horse, but I know he's a good, he's a good colt.

So they were very gracious, Mike Mackin and and the and Chris,

they, they allowed me in. And yeah, so, you know, it's

interesting because, you know, you have to be really thoughtful

about these types of things. Kenny was like, look, let's run

an allowance race on the undercard and Derby, we're going

to win and we'll get back to stage later.

I was like, that's fine with me. And then the estate of Toby

Keith called and said, hey, if Toby was alive, he'd really want

to run this horse in the race. And then there was a bullet work

this morning and all of a sudden, here I am.

It's been way worse. Brooke Smith with us here on

BLOOD Horse Monday. Derby draw, of course, the draw

has happened. How do we feel about post

position? I think 15's fine.

It's a lot better when Sierra drew the two, you know, the

inside poster tricky, but even like Evan Almighty out in the

20, I mean, it's it's just such it's such a race.

There's so many things that happened.

I think I think the plan for render judgement, listen to

Kenny talk is, you know, raid in catch the rail, save every bit

of ground because he's not the horse that a lot of these other

Colts are and then make one big run.

So hopefully you'll see something similar to Mystic Dan.

I'm really excited doing Le Peru's.

Yeah, those attractions. Well, he worked the horse this

morning. So and he was, you know, he's

excited. So I mean, it's a Kentucky

Derby. Do you think it happened and any

conditions? Frankly, track was a little wet

when he ran this morning. So obviously the numbers will

hold up no matter the conditions.

So Brooke, always great to see you man Appreciate it.

Absolutely love catching. Hopefully again next year right

here. For the record, I love the

podcast you guys are doing. There you go.

Fantastic. There you go.

Absolutely. If you don't watch it, your head

is in the sand like an ostrich. Don't be an ostrich.

Watch Blood Horse Monday. Listen to Brooke Smith.

Seriously. That's what you're talking

about. I always watch it.

See you, buddy. There you go.

The good stuff with Brooke Smith.

Let's call it what it is. That's the good stuff.

I appreciate Sean. You, not you understand my brain

for this stuff now. Oh, yeah.

Because we went from sovereignty to that, from good cheer to

that. That's the guy said out loud.

I'm not sure we're going to win the Derby.

You know what though? That's it's an underrated it is

#1 the joy of the Derby is. Right #2 the difference in

everybody's experience. Underrated part of the Derby, as

far as long shots is we've had four winners from dead last on

the board win in the last 20 years.

Damn. OK, that's 20%, right?

25%, whatever, 20 if you know anything in horse racing at 20%,

that's absurdly good. Yeah, it's absurdly good.

You would be better off putting 100 bucks on the last horse on

the board of the Kentucky Derby every year and just waiting it

out that actually tried to figure out the Kentucky Derby.

I mean, that's alright. Ready Judgement can win this

thing. That's what.

That's all I'm trying to get at. Take Donner Rail out of it from

1913, and the four biggest long shots in Derby history are right

here in the 2000s. And so it's a good time to be a

long shot. You know, I think, you know,

Rich Strike is definitely rejuvenated everybody's ideas of

getting into the race. And I mean, this is a horse

that, you know, he's, he's shown glimpses of talent.

I remember I actually talked to Brooke like a few days after he

bought into this horse last fall.

I ran into him at the paddock at Churchill Downs and he was

really high on this horse. He, you know, he had a, you

know, kind of a a rough winter of them trying to figure out

like getting him out of the gate, getting him into his best

running style. He ran a much improved race in

the Virginia Derby, I thought. And then, you know, the

Bluegrass was a very tough field watch.

Obviously, this will be as well. But I really did like his

Virginia Derby. I thought a lot of people kind

of slept on that performance. And if he can take a step

forward, we've seen weirder things happen than under Judge

right the Kentucky Derby. Well, he mentioned, of course,

kind of just tucking in, staying in and in that Virginia Derby,

he kind of had not quite that trip that, you know, was is the

plan for the Derby, but he had a little bit of that in and out.

And so he's I do think he's a little bit of a trip horse, but

in the sense if he there's listen, there's a lot of in and

outs that he can do in the Kentucky Derby when we get to

the top of the stretch. So if he can, he's he's kind of

a mind horse. He likes he likes something in

front of him to just kind of keep him occupied in the sense

of target, target, target, target, target.

So this could you know, that's where this could kind of.

They'll have plenty of targets that's.

For sure. It's amazing that horses ever

get to the starting gate at all, isn't it?

I mean, it's kind of amazing. You hear these stories like, Oh

yeah, one of the Kentucky Derby starters 3 months ago wasn't

really using the gate, right? I mean, like this kind of stuff,

right? It's bonkers, man.

It's it's really remarkable. I always tell people like when

they look for the comparison, it's like the Derby's

essentially like your high school athletes go.

For a first, it's like a couple of years of college.

Yes, right. Yeah, that's right.

Running as a fourth grader is essentially college.

And then if you ever get to be a 5 year old, we saw Godrunner at

5, for example. That was a pro once.

A It's one of my favorite things about workouts is we watch all

the three-year olds come out and they've got the colorful saddle

claws and they're out there, they're running around, and then

the older horses come out and it's different.

The other day when when Torpedo Anna came out with the Derby

horses, yeah, you could. You could tell.

You could tell she was a pro compared to all these

youngsters. It is blood horse Monday lure

Beau, Callie Francois. How about that it for the barrel

of Jockey Club hanging out with us for the week.

Shawn Collins, of course, here on blood horse Monday.

Let's go ahead. We'll go to the let's do a

trainer now. How about that little, little

hopscotch? Do you want to do an Asmussen?

Do you want to hear from where are we going next?

Sean, you are deep in the the treasure trove of videos.

I know the problem is I've got too many videos.

So where where do we choose where to go?

I think I think we should go Steve next, because you know,

we've talked a little bit about, you know, some of the closure

here with render judgement right inside of him in the gate are

going to be both of Steve Askey's sources who actually,

you know, funny enough, drew side by side, which you well,

you'll hear his thoughts here in just a moment on drawing side by

side. But we talked to him yesterday.

So now after the draw, we talked to him yesterday after both

horses logged their final workouts.

Do you think he went to the jocks?

Was like what do you break left? What do you break right?

Make sure you don't break into each other.

Please don't take both of my horses out of here.

I understand that's the backside.

Here, Hall of Fame trainer Steve Asmussen, 6 days before the

Kentucky Derby. You have Tis Tastic and

Publisher in the Derby this year.

Both of them were on the work tab this morning.

Let's just start with Tis Tastic coming out of the Louisiana

Derby. What do you think of his work

today? I know he was so low versus the

last couple times he's been in company with Publisher.

Just gave him both a light half mile this morning.

I'm extremely pleased and comfortable with how Tis Tastic

went today doing it. Weather's perfect.

Had a nice racetrack to go over this morning and happy to get

our final breeze in. Was there any, you know, the

last couple days there's been some rain.

A couple people had pushed back. Was there any debate in your

mind when you were going or was this always going to be the

plan? It worked out really well for

us. Like you said, the race tracks

pretty wet Friday, maybe a possibly a little heavy

yesterday. So it just sorted out extremely

well for us as far as our training schedule and I'm hoping

that their trips with both of them being deep closer sorts out

as well. Publisher, how did he look out

there to you this morning? He did extremely well.

You know, he and both horses had a very sharp work of eight days

ago and for them to come back and be as relaxed and as loose

and handle as well as they did today, extremely pleased.

Just hoping everything goes as smooth next six days as it has

to this point. You mentioned how they're both

deep closers, they're side by side in the starting gate.

Does that give you any concern at all that they're going to be

trying to get to the same spot, or is that a good thing that

they're kind of in that same spot?

I think that you know. Deep closers to this point is

tastic spend a little. Quicker away from the gates than

the publisher has. I think that the the fact that

they're neck next to each other, they both have very good

temperaments and the fact that they've been next to each other

in the morning so many times is. Actually a positive.

It would be pretty cool to see them running side by side making

that run together right if they could make it through.

Yeah, exactly. You know, like I said, I think

Tis Tastic's been a little quicker 1st jump than publisher

has. And so I don't expect them to be

in the same spot. But and both of them, I think

it's extremely obvious the faster that the race goes early,

the better chance both of them have.

Now, publisher, obviously he's coming in here as a maid and he

hasn't won yet, but I know you've been really high on him.

You know he's not just your average maid and coming into the

Derby, correct? What?

You know, kind of defending that to a degree and stuff.

Is he when they showed up last year who he is physically

pedigree wise, how he looked on the racetrack?

You we were thinking Derby horse and we know what it takes to get

in the Derby and that's points and that's what we were

concentrating on and put him in a position and he earned his way

in it. If they change the criteria for

how to get into the Derby, we will change what we do to get

there. Last maiden when the Derby was

in 1933. That sounds like a good record

to break this year, right? How about that you?

Know the fact that it's been done.

Can't even be first at it, you know.

He would be the 4th 1:00 to do. It right, everybody's teasing

me. It's going to take a maiden to

break my maiden in the Derby, so maybe this is the one we've been

waiting on. Awesome.

Well, thank you Steve for the update on your horses and best

of luck this. Week.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

So I'm the only one that misses the mop.

Am I the only one? Am I, I'm it, I'm it because I,

I have this. And like I, I.

When Steve would walk around in the old paddock at Churchill, I

was so jealous all the time. He just looked like a walking

mop. He did.

He looked like a walking mop. Very jealous.

He didn't donate the hair to you and he cut it off, obviously.

Not it's a problem anyways, just asking Cali, what do you think?

Here's the thing I think. By the way, he's one that's easy

to see because he's actually got a big mark on his nose.

The rest of these all look the same as Bobby.

I'm not saying he's completely trip dependent.

It took me. I was not.

I was not convinced at all and just until that last race and I

was half convinced. So I do I, I just think, again,

this is just an opinion, but I think he's a, he needs kind of a

specific type of set up in the sense of just kind of that

perfect comfortable trip that he, you know, wants.

You heard Steve talk about, hey, it's points to get in.

It's this, you know, and I get it.

He's defending a maiden. Whatever do you use in your

handicapping, Sean? Do you hold it against a guy

like Steve Osmo that he's never won one of these?

No, OK. Because, you know, he's the top

trainer in the country. I mean, he was essentially going

to win in 2022 until the last 50 yards he's had.

It would be a concern to me if he had never had horses run well

in the Derby of as many as he started.

But he has had horses run well and he said long shots run well,

like looking at Lee. So you look at those.

Yeah. So you see those kind of

performances and, you know, he's almost gotten there a couple of

times. He's going to probably

breakthrough at some point. He's won every other race.

So he's going to he's going to get it at some point.

And, you know, the fact that you have a maiden in the Derby

doesn't worry me. You go back a couple years ago,

I might have mentioned this last week, but you go back a couple

years ago, like Trojan Nation is one that you don't think about.

You know, he's a maiden coming into the race.

He just kind of got up for a second.

That last round of preps. Publishers been running in

multiple preps and he's been running well.

Well, publisher is that type of horse and how how Quintus how

much of an A testimony and B just statement about Steve

Asmussen where he would get his first Derby with a maiden.

I think that would just, it would just be such a testament

to who he is. And as a horseman, first of all.

That being said, you get the sense when you're watching his

races that is he comfortable with just kind of being the

bridesmaid a little bit. Yeah.

That's that's, that's my, it's a it's a little bit of a concern.

So the interesting thing with publisher is Steve doesn't talk

about him like Brooke just talked about rendered judgement.

Yeah, they're not just in the race.

They're serious. He's serious about it.

The work mattered, right? How he talks about this horse

isn't He's a maiden. If he gets a check, he gets a

check. It's not that at all.

He's talking about him in a different.

Way none of his other almost 30 Derby starters were maidens

affected. Even random maiden in these

races is a sign that he really does think highly of this horse.

And he's been saying that the whole time that he felt like he

was working with the magnitudes he was working with the his

tastics from the jump. So this is not, as I said to

Steve there, this is not your average maiden running in the

Kentucky Derby. Well, in the way he, you know,

for his, you know, on his terms with to me, I think he seemed

pretty exuberant about publisher.

And I think that kind of says, you know, we only have seen that

last race. Who knows, you know, just in

little ways that you could add a trainer can tell, hey, this

horse moved forward off that effort last time out.

Well, you know who beat publisher, though in the

Arkansas Derby? Yeah, Sandman.

Exactly. Let's get back in the same some

of the favorites here. Let's go to #17 Sandman, all 17.

I know unfortunately when I last time I talked to Marcus, I do

believe in the 17. Do you?

Believe in the 17. I do.

I do believe in the curse of the 17.

For those that don't know, it is the only post position that has

never won the Kentucky Derby. And also if #17 has gotten into

a different post position because of scratches.

The number itself has never won the Kentucky Derby either.

So that's the curse position. Unfortunately, my interview here

with Mark was before the post position draw.

It was after his last breeze on last Wednesday, so we didn't get

the reaction. I've talked to a couple people

from the bar and they don't think it's that big an issue.

But I'm a Derby historian so I think it's an issue.

But we'll find out on Saturday because if he loses, that's 100%

the reason why. Nothing else, nothing else can

happen. We're not looking for anything

spectacular. He went off easy.

I don't think he even knew he was breezy and he figured it out

about the top of the lane. He's like, oh, you want me to

go? And he came home really nice and

then I don't know if you saw, but and he didn't want to pull

up. So remember, we're wanting to go

a mile and 1/4. So all systems are go.

We'll just kind of take it easy from this point on.

So he's ready. Are you worried at all about him

being a little green the way he came out and then in the

Arkansas there to be happy? Nah, not really.

He he, he's going to have plenty of targets.

He just kind of felt found himself out on the lead and and

you know, he hadn't really done that before.

So that's something new. But he'll have plenty to run at,

I'm sure. You know, no, I'm not worried at

all. He's got a lot of experience.

When you look at the field, he's one of the most experienced,

especially, you know, with big, big fields.

So, you know, he's ready. That won't be an excuse.

Is he a horseshoe? Usually he gives you signs in

the morning that he's sitting on a certain kind of race.

Is he the one? Who is he?

What he's? Going to toss himself at all.

I think. So if you look at him, you know,

he's, he's just gotten better and better.

Just continues to thrive. So now we just it's, you know,

10 days of waiting. I wish we could run tomorrow.

Of course I wouldn't have breezed him today.

Coming off the win. At the Arkansas area, I mean

your confidence. In the horse.

Just talk about what, what that does for a team like you guys,

you know, as confident as you can be.

I, I, I've been doing this for a long, long time.

So I know there's so many things that can go wrong and you know,

you need some luck, but I'm as confident as I've ever been in

him, maybe more so. I feel like he's coming to the

race great. Everything is worked out and.

We just, we need some luck. Is there something about this

horse that maybe separates him from the rest of the pack?

Or is there something that maybe makes him stand out?

From the rest of the group. Well, I don't know.

It's a pretty strong group. I don't know that he stands out.

I think he is is as good as any of them.

He has a lot of experience which is going to help him.

We're also, this is home for him.

You know, he spent a lot of time here and so they're playing in

our house and I think that's a, you know, that's an advantage.

So when you go through things and you check off, you know,

does he have enough experience? Yes.

Is he running at home? Yes.

Is he training as good as you can see a horse training yes.

We have one of the best riders in the world yes.

So only question mark. Maybe it's me, but we'll see.

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well. Same man.

It's an interesting one. We did a Derby draft the other

day on our podcast, the Horse racing Happy Hour.

We had Bobby Flay on for that one.

Travis Stone will call the race you and I got to sit in.

That's kind of the scrubs on that one.

Were we scrubbed? Excuse me, I was a scrub on that

one. And so the but Bonnie took

Sandman first and he made a pretty convincing case that he

was he's pretty impressed by this horse.

Love the effort last out, thinks he can get a little better.

Was that before he drew the 17? It was before, so let's just

start all out the window. You're done, play, you're done.

But same man in general you. What's your thoughts on him?

The Arkansas route to the Derby? I know Frank Gangster, we'll

talk to you in a minute here. Really, really high on that

Arkansas. Route.

It's, it's a fun route. It's a fun way to get into the

Derby that's, you know, kind of solid for sure.

My this is in I'm going to be a complete oddball on this horse

and I'm fine with it. But I just think I think I

wanted just a little bit more mentally.

There was a little bit of wandering eyes when we got to

the top of the stretch and kind of so, but in the sense we have

the great pace that he's going to be running into.

He's got kind of this little bit of a lumbering stride.

I just wonder and it this is where I'm going to go against

you a little bit and say that the 17 May help this guy out

because he's got kind of this slumbering stride.

I would be OK with him kind of taking a wide trip because we've

seen him do it before. So it's this.

This guy's momentum, though, however, cannot be broken in any

way whatsoever whatsoever. Otherwise, he's out.

I just worry. And I said this on the Derby

draft show, he may need just one more race mentally to just be

really, really tight up there. And I but there's potential that

that Derby race in itself could just wake him up right away.

It could be a little bit of a light switch.

The light switch could go on, but I'm just sitting on the back

and say, hey, it might not happen today.

I would not be surprised to see this horse in the Belmont at

all. OK boy, he went straight to

where I was going. I think that he'll run OK in the

Derby and be really important in the.

Belmont And that's what I said on the Derby draft.

Yeah, Yeah, I I think you're totally right about that.

Your thoughts on other than the 7th move?

The seven if he were in the 16 and I'm being serious.

Oh, if he gets in the 16, he'd have a great shot.

There he is. I I will be honest, of the

horses is he 8 to one, six to one.

He was third choice at 6:00 to. One, he's the one in the single

digits that I feel the least confident.

About really because I thought for I thought the three that

should be the single digit horses were the single digit

horses, journalism, sovereignty and Sandman.

I thought those were the good, the top.

I think those are the top three betting choices.

I made my top three choices. Maybe not, but I do think they

are the top three betting choices.

They should be Sandman's. He's one that I, it's hard for

me to form an opinion on him because I remember, I just

remember hearing all the hype about him as a 2 year old at

Churchill in the summer. He came out and he lost and then

he wins big at Saratoga. So there's all that hype again

when he comes back in the Iroquois, he goes out there and

he loses. Same with the street sense.

He's one of those ones where I do think he kind of needs

everything to fall in line for him to run well.

Now, obviously those races that I just mentioned that he lost

were, you know, sprints and he's definitely a long distance

horse, but I do think he kind of needs everything to set up for

him. And how many times have we seen

in the Derby where you have you have to do that stop and start

that stop and start. Well, you think about Rich

strike where you had to, you know, that maybe not the best

talent level comparison, but you're looking at a horse that

was coming from as far back as Sandman's probably going to be

coming from. He had two or three times where

he had to stop, you had to wait and then he had to keep going.

And so that that's the kind of trip that you need.

So a horse like Sandman where, you know, I mean, he mentioned

it right there at the start talking about the breeze, how he

doesn't think he even realized he was breezing for the first

half of it, as you know, as he mentally ready for a race like

this. We'll find out.

I do like as compared to the Arkansas Derby, I do like the

fact he's going to have more targets in front of him to keep

him a little bit more focused here with the 20.

He is, Mark said exactly that, right?

He was very open about that. He could have plenty of targets

running. And he's more experienced with a

larger field because Oakland typically has the largest fields

of all the prep races. So he is experienced in that

sense. But when it comes to those deep

closers, I think you know from a, if you were to put them side

by side and have them just run, no impact from the back of the

pack, I think Sandman is the better closer of the one I'm

between him and who I'm about to mention.

But in this scenario, in this race, I like Burnham Square

better because I've seen Burnham Square do that, stop and start,

stop and start. So I think he's going to be able

to navigate a Derby field a little bit better.

We we watch Burnham Square make the move of the weekend.

Was that the Holy Bowl or the founder youth I always make?

That was the that was the Holy Bowl.

Holy Bowl, OK, the first one, he made that move on the

backstretch. We want, we talked about on this

show the professionalism, essentially 4 different speeds

in that race, something like that for Burnham Square.

That's an adjustable horse. That's one that can make the

different kinds of moves that you're going to need to make in

a 20 horse field. And so I'm with you on that.

I I don't know what to make of Sandman.

I will say this from the three interviews we've done, OK.

Or as I guess it's for now, Hanahan thinks he's live in the

Oaks and the Derby. Right?

Like live, live. Brooke's having a good time.

Yeah. OK.

Steve is in the middle. If he wins, he's not going to be

shocked. If he doesn't win, he's not

going to be shocked. I think he's in the middle.

I think Cassie thinks he's sitting on a horse that should

win one of these races but probably won't be the Derby.

I think that's where we're at with these.

Do you read it similarly to me? Yeah.

OK, I could see that. Yeah, I could see that as an

actor, but I'm not. Trying to read into what they're

saying. I'm just, I'm literally just

their body, you know, their their the other Steve, that was

he giggled with you. That was a legit.

That's a big deal, yeah. It's a massive deal.

I got him, I got him. At the right time, he was he was

out there having fun. Yeah.

Well, he's not a good book a couple of weeks ago and they

were already in a great mood about all the connections here

and all. Yes.

So yes, for sure on that. And I know we have to get we

have one more or two more here. Well, we just mentioned Burnham

Square. I talked to Brian Hernandez

about Burnham Square right after his breeze the other day.

This was on Saturday. I got to say Burnham Square.

He's looked fantastic out there on the track.

He's looked strong. He's, you know, talking to, I

just talked to his exercise rider this morning, Mark Cutler,

for an interview that will be in the Blood Horse Daily tonight.

So make sure you go check that out.

By the way, go get subscribed cost you nothing comes to your

e-mail. They don't sell your info.

Go go blood horse daily. Go get.

It the amount of content that this man has done, he he has.

I feel like you're the Prince of the backside.

Right now, I mean, hey, I'm getting Steve asked me to send a

giggle, so I must be doing something OK right now.

Only said Sean four times of that.

That's all right. So we hear what Brian has to

say, though. Fine.

Here's Sean with Brian. Here with jockey Brian Hernandez

Junior right after Burnham Square just performed his final

breeze ahead of the Kentucky Derby, which is just one week

away already. Brian, Can you believe that?

It's a it jumped up on us fast, that's for sure.

It always does, though. You know, this is a fun time of

the year, so we're excited for it again.

Well, just tell me a little bit about how he breathes today.

I know last week he was pretty strong to the pole.

Was it the same this week? Was he a little bit more

relaxed? Today was a lot more more

relaxed. You know, Ian decided to to help

the have the pony help us out, get him to the pole.

So he was he was nice and settle next to the pony and he just

broke off in in 12 and a little change.

And then like Ian and I discussed Ian wanted to see him

pick it up as he went along and and he did, you know, he was 12

and change 24 and 136 and some change and then he got to the

8th pole. I had him on my watch in 48 and

two. And then I just, I kind of

leaned forward on him and didn't really ask him, but just let him

let him kind of length in his stride.

And he came home the last eighth and 11:00 and 1:00 and he got

out really well. Well, next time you're going to

get on his back will be for the Kentucky Derby itself.

Does he feel ready? Yeah, I think so.

You know, we'll get Ian and I'll discuss it a little more the

next few days after we get the post position draw done tonight

and we'll map out a game plan for next Saturday.

Is there anything with him that you want post position wise when

they draw that tonight? Is it?

Does it matter for him? That's just one of those things,

you know, that's kind of. Nothing we have control over.

So we just have to go with the luck of the drawing and we'll

like I said, you know, luckily not with them.

They enter seven days out here for Derby.

So we'll have we'll have seven days to kind of watch replays

and and look at peepees and and map out a plan to give him the

best trip possible. All right, well, thank you so

much, Brian, and best of luck this week.

Thank you. They drew the 9, by the way.

I'd say that works out pretty well for them.

It's OK, Yeah, yeah, it's all right.

Burnham Square growing on many people.

Look, I know he's number one in the points as well, so he's not

technically allowed to be the buzz horse.

Is he turning into it though? I think so, yeah, 'cause I mean,

a lot of people discredited him from the Bluegrass a little bit

just because of the time, you know, from from talking to Ian

Wilkes, it sounds like, you know, they they think that was

mostly just the way the track was prepared that day.

I mean, I was probably a little deeper than maybe maybe you saw

some of the other prep races throughout the final round

there. But I think, yeah, I think a lot

of people kind of slept on him from, you know, the Fountain of

Youth to the Bluegrass and the fact that he like just kind of

barely got up in the Bluegrass. I think a lot of people weren't

giving him full consideration. But I think people are now

seeing him trained or starting kind of turn around on him.

We know Ian Wilkes comes from the Karl NASCAR tree, so we know

we've talked about it with us on the second episode of this

podcast about these building blocks.

Have you wanted him to peek on the 1st Saturday in May?

I think that last block is being put in place.

I think he's ready to go. I actually want to go back to

the first block and if you go into his losses, you go into his

second start. You watch that replay and it's a

bit similar of an excuse that he could have in the bluegrass

where the bluegrass 3 jumps out of the gate.

He got shoved around a little bit.

You go back to the second start where not only did he have a

phenomenal gallop out and we can tell he just loves this

Churchill surface, but 5-6 jumps out of the gate, this guy got

shoved around and that, watch the replay.

That's proper Derby action that these connections got to see

from an early get go. So building blocks, you said it.

I think that is the just quintessential statement about

Burnham Square. Do either of you care about

which prep these horses come out of?

I care very deeply about who won the San Anita Derby, the Florida

Derby, etcetera. I think of those as the best

predictors recently for high level success.

Obviously we've had horses come from other spots.

Do do you care that the Bluegrass has been a terrible

predictor for success of the Kentucky Derby?

I personally don't for the race itself, I care more about who

went to which race. And he had one of the what?

I think that was a very good feel.

That was one of the better fields, you know, and I think

the Bluegrass is going to breakthrough at some point

because we've seen it had a couple years ago where it got

downgraded to a grade 2. And since it's gone back to a

grade one, we have seen like that is really the key race

where a lot of these top contenders are pointing, you

think, to Sierra Leone last year.

I was going to say, to be fair to the bluegrass, Sierra Leone

missed by an. O exactly and you had door knock

in that race. You know, you're starting to see

where some of these big name versus like once they get.

Through the pens pointed to Lexington instead of the.

Instead of saying Florida is the Florida Derby.

Exactly so and same with Berlin Square.

You know, he left Florida in order to go run in the

bluegrass. So it's going to breakthrough at

some point here where that's going to replace probably one of

the other ones we constantly think about as kind of the top

predictor. And you know, now this year is

different because of journalism. But, you know, the Santa Anita

Derby the last few years hasn't really been turning out too

much. You know, even when you take out

the the Baffert ban, I mean, those horses that have been

running in that race really haven't been coming out and

doing much even not not after like, you know, after the Derby.

So I think we could definitely see a change.

I think now we're starting to see where more connections are,

starting to really think the Bluegrass is kind of the key

race to head to. You know, it's right in the

heart of Lexington, right in front of all the Breeders.

That's kind of where you want to send your stallion prospect to

go run. And so I think we're going to

start seeing the bluegrass breaking through here pretty

soon. All right.

One of the preps that's frankly had very good success in recent

years is the Jeff Ruby Stakes. We get a flag Mohawk finishing

in second place, and it led to a ridiculous interview between

Jason Wirth and Sean Collins, mostly because of Sean.

No, of course we did get to ask Bobby Flay on the on the Derby

draft if he liked. I asked him if he liked if he

liked Jason's hats, like if he was jealous of his hat

collection, and he thought that was funny enough that he

actually fell away from the mic for a second.

I was pretty proud of. Myself.

Well, what was the answer? Does he like it?

Yeah, yeah, his real answer was. His real answer was I'm just

glad he's in the sport and loving it as much as he is

because this guy's all, he's all in.

UT talks about it here, so here, let's get to it.

Here's Jason all. Right, we're here at the post

position draw with the one and only Jason Wirth, World Series

champion and owner of Flying Mohawk, who drew the 11 post

position in the Derby this year. Jason, just what'd you think of

the post? Well, last year, this time when

we drew the one with Dornuck it, it felt like the our chances

were basically, you know, 0% of him doing anything.

So now, but with going in with mohawks, like I, I felt like

even if we drew the 1:00, we'd be all right.

He's just a he's such a different horse and you know,

he's not trip dependent. Dorman was was so trip dependent

and where where his post was. So we're not in that situation.

So I could have could have drawn anything.

But 11 is actually cool for me. My my grandpa, he played Dick

Scoffy played he played nineteen years in the big leagues and his

number was 11 on some really good teams.

So 11 is one of my lucky numbers, so I'm pretty stoked.

Well, that sounds like a good number.

Definitely much better than the one.

Last year, that's for sure, yeah.

That's that's no question right there.

Well, you're back at the Derby two years in a row.

Just what does that mean to you to have this opportunity?

Well, look, I mean we bought flying log with dreams and

aspirations of running at Kentucky Downs and and maybe an

American Turf Classic on Derby day.

Wit called me a while back over the winter and was like, I got

I'm putting a plan together. I think, you know, we're going

to point to the the Ruby and then play it from there.

I was like, OK, like, you know, I don't know enough know what

that means, you know, And I I'm like, call people, tell me, hey,

what's the run the Ruby? And then somebody's like, you

know, that's a, that's a Derby prep race.

I was like, no, it's on, it's on Polly.

You know, they're like, no, no, that's a that's a.

So I look it up. I'm like, oh man, that's a,

that's a prep we got, we got Derby point.

I'm like, I call him back. I'm like, we're not trying to

run this horse in the in the Derby, are we?

And he's like, he's like, look, we'll see what happens.

It's a big race, big purse and we'll take it from there.

And, you know, if we qualify, we'll we'll get him over there.

We'll run him on the dirt. So like a week after the the

Ruby, he calls me. He's like, he's doing great.

I think we're going to, we're going to take a shot.

I'm like, we're going to run. We're going to run this horse in

the Kentucky Derby. And he's like, yeah.

I was like, was this the plan the whole time?

He's like, yeah, so you know, wits, wits, he's the man.

We we actually made the decision a while ago to all of our all of

our icon racing stabled horses, our syndicate.

We start, we just start, all of our horses are going to whip.

He's he's he's one of the top up and coming trainers.

He's he's lived an unbelievable life.

He's he's, he's done everything in this sport and now he's got,

he's got another horse back-to-back years.

The Derby's got two in the Oaks, so he's our guy.

Well, you mentioned Icon racing. This is some adventure that

you're starting up right now, Syndicate you're putting

together. Just tell us a little bit about

how that's coming along. That's good.

We, we kind of threw it together.

I, we, we joked that we had these ideas.

But we're like now we need, we probably need Dornik to win a

big race to to go through with this whole thing.

So that worked out. Yeah.

That after the Derby, we were like, that was, it was fun, you

know, like we'll go, I'll go back to doing whatever else I

was doing. And you know, he shocked the

world and the Belmont. And the next thing you know, we,

we've got a, we've got a racing syndicate.

We raised a little over 3,000,000 bucks with, with 2425

new owners coming into the sport.

We got, I think we got ten horses in the stable.

They're all 2 year olds of training.

You know, this, this whole Netflix thing came out and then

and here we are with Flying Mohawk and turf horse back in

the Derby. I don't know I mean, we're going

for it, man. We we're here.

I, I there's no reason why why we can't win or run good.

I'm, you know, everybody with those gates open, all bets are

off, but. This is Netflix star Jason

Worth, not just a professional baseball player, World Series

champion, but Netflix star now as well.

You've made a lot of comments just about how much you really

enjoy being in horse racing, how much you've really kind of found

this to fulfill that competitive nature after your retirement.

Just delve into that a little bit for us.

Yeah, You know, I, I tell people horse racing found me.

I wasn't really looking for anything.

I didn't really realize that I was missing out on anything.

And then all of a sudden we're, you know, running, running

horses at Tampa Bay Downs on a Tuesday afternoon like 2:00.

And I'm, I'm in the paddock sweat and nervous.

I'm like, I'm not sure what's going on.

And I'm all fired up with them coming down the lane and

punching my buddies when we win. And, and yeah, I just realized,

man, this is an unbelievable sport.

I was lucky enough to walk into the right side of the bar at

Keeneland that day and run into Danny Gargan and and he somehow

convinced me to buy into, you know, some horse out of out of

good magic that, you know, I I first cold I ever bought into.

And then, you know, the next, you know, I wasn't.

Then six months later we're we're we're we're here at the

Churchill for the Kentucky Derby and, and Dornuk's full brother

Mage wins at the Kentucky Derby. And we acted like we won the

Kentucky Derby. You know, we were, we were going

crazy and can we bet on Mage obviously and had a big day.

And then and then we're right back to next year with Dornuk

and, and then here we are three years in a row with, you know,

Flying Mohawk. So I don't know.

I mean, seems like things are, are, are going our way a little

bit. If we can get Flying Mohawk to

run big and, and we're back here next year with some Icon horses.

I mean, I don't know. Let's do it.

Yeah, Last question I got for you.

You are gonna be an ambassador for this SI club, the Sports

Illustrated club here on Derby day.

I talked to you before Flying Mohawk qualified for the Jeff

Ruby. You said if he qualified for the

Derby, you didn't know exactly what that day was gonna look

like as far as how you were gonna handle the two.

Have you figured it out? No, it's gonna be an absolute

mess. He's gonna be in the bottle.

Look, I, I'll fulfill my, you know, my agreement.

I, I said I'd do it. I said I'd do it when I was, was

running a, a turf force at, at turfway.

So I, I didn't, I, we never thought that this was a

possibility. So we were like, yeah, sure,

we'll host like, you know, me and my, my Co host to my

podcast, Sean Kelly were like, oh, well, that'll be fun.

Maybe we'll get some content for the podcast and do all that.

So I don't know. We'll figure it out.

If you're at Club SI around there, some say what's up?

We'll we're going to make it a fun day either way.

Yeah, it's going to be a very fun day down there for sure.

Anything you're involved with, I know it's going to be a whole

lot of fun. But thank you, Jason, for

joining us here. Thanks for giving us our little

updates here and best of luck. All right.

There you go, Jason. Worth I I really honestly don't

know at this point if we were invited to the parties of both

after a win, Brooke Smith or Jason Werth which one I would

rather go to. We need to get them all together

on a horse. Brooke, I know you're watching.

Go talk to Jason. This week, get in on the Icon,

folks. By the way, he said something in

there that I think is actually legitimately underrated was that

we're just sending all of our horses to win.

Is an interesting thing for someone who's going to have

millions of dollars. High level success last year

with Dornik, by the way, underrated horse last year.

Unbelievable what he did in the Belmont getting on the Tascal

with just driving runs in the stretches of both of those races

where he could have easily, by the way, by the same horse mind

frame twice could have been overtaken and both refused to

let down ran. I thought a a good enough race

in the traverse. Understandable that they would

retire him after that, but I have a great Haskell story.

So the ownership group is coming out.

Were you there at the winner's circle after that race?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so they're coming out and

I've got my my credential on, of course.

And a guy just from the ownership group just looks at me

and he goes, you write nice things about him right now.

I'm so tired of reading things about.

I was like, who's bagging A Doorduck?

Who is this in the media? Who's making fun of the Belmont

winner? What are we doing?

That was a great race. And so I just I'll have that

moment forever. The guy just pointing at me as

though I'm I'm writing in the New York Post or something about

about right. What a bum.

Belmont. That what?

No, that like, what are we doing here?

No, you want the triple. Crowder, Right.

Well, about flying Mohawk, there it is.

You. Right.

Well, about it. There you.

Go. I love how he he.

There's such honesty and candor between him and Brooke in those

interviews. I thought we had a turf horse at

Turfway Park. Is it OK thing to say out loud?

Idiomatic started there and she turned into one of the great

dirt Phillies that we've had in the last decade, right?

I mean, so that's kind of thing. So it's OK if if we don't quite

know what these horses are doing when they're younger.

But the wit Beckman angle, I know I talk about it probably

too much on this show and other shows.

I think he's an absolute star coming up.

And I always wonder in our sport, where are the next people

going to come from, right? So, so much good has come from

markets like, you know, the Bush tracks of Louisiana or something

like that, where we get so many good, you know, Hernandez Junior

and the Landry's of the world and whatever else.

And. I Bonnie Briley right now or

nearly. 10 That's exactly right. And you know, and you know, you

work in Maryland, so many good trainers come out of there and,

and, and jockeys, etcetera, etcetera.

It's nice that there's a guy just in Louisville that's coming

up too, right? It's OK that that's happening

here as well, right? And so I, I really do hope it

works for wit. I think it will.

And when you've got the backing of a guy with legitimate horses

and legitimate money, that that's really what you need.

Yeah. And you know, just just just

kind of go off of that. I mean, it's we're talking about

a couple of horses. Wiz had a couple of horses where

it was questionable to get that horses to this point here in the

Derby with both of his Derby horses.

I think that says kind of everything in itself.

That he's able to make it and I talked to him after flying

Mohawks final breeze last weekend and what he told me if

anybody tries to say this horse is not a dirt horse, I'd argue

with them. That's how that's how good he's

moving out there in the morning. So wit is very, very pleased

with the way that he's going right now.

And so looks like, I mean Jason alluded it to alluded to it

looks like the plan of sliding in the back door of the Derby by

way of the Jeff Ruby's working out.

I love that that wit just did it and then told him afterwards.

Yeah, right. Just like that.

Just but but. Jason would go along with it.

Anyway, exactly and that. Knowing your owner part the

best. Yeah, but knowing your owner #1

is right. But also knowing, knowing your

trainer and trusting your trainer, Yeah, that's just that

needs to be very mutual that way.

And it appears to be for sure. We've been talking Derby.

And of course, the Derby is on Saturday.

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Get in before Saturday with our friends.

They're hanging out with us at the seminar tomorrow night.

If you happen to be in Louisville, 7:00 over at Blind

Squirrel, get there a little before 7.

I'm buying dinner and it's free to get in.

If you can't get with us that way, we'll be on the Blood Horse

Socials live tomorrow night, 7:00 PM Eastern Time.

Kelly and me, and probably an appearance by you.

I mean, you're not sure? I don't know, I have to get my

sleep in before I get back at 5:00 the next morning.

Nachos, Sean, we have nachos. I'll be there.

OK, Yeah. Let's call it what it is.

Amanda, I imagine likes nachos. By the way, Baller answer.

We were talking about this earlier on the show and we we, I

dragged the two of you to Frank's deli in town here, my

favorite working class deli in the world, frankly, a little

chilly this afternoon, even though it's 80° out here in

Louisville, But they love that. They love that part.

OK, all right, I got to move on from that.

But, but Frank, we asked him because we started doing the

show right around the Super Bowl.

And I said, Frank, what's your favorite go to Super Bowl snack?

And he said Skyline chili. He needed Skyline chili And he,

he was doing like the dips, doing the different things.

We bring Frank in the the the aficionado that he is of of the

chili. How are you, Frank?

Very good. Yeah, Skyline, it's good.

Anytime it is. You've been out if you if you go

there as a kid in your pajamas, you have no hope.

That's exactly. Right, it's there are.

We going to get Frank to Frank's, then we do, and he's

down here for the dirt. No, that's right.

He's got to get out of that library that he works in there

at Blood Horse and come on down with us here in Louisville.

You've been backside, Frank. We've seen you on several days.

You were there for the draw as well.

I'll open end to start this. Just your initial impressions of

Derby 151. Yeah, I mean, I, I think it's a

terrific field with a lot of horses really putting their

best. I think a lot of horses are

going to run their best race that they've run in their career

on, on Saturday. So that's a credit to the

trainers and connections that have got them there.

I mean, there's a lot of them that appear to be improving and

I think it's going to be a terrific race for sure.

I, I don't have any great handicapping insight.

I I think journalism's the deserving favorite.

I perhaps think he's a little bit better than I think there's

some separation between him and the rest of the field, which in

my opinion makes a favorite a good play.

I mean, so a million things can happen in the Derby.

There's a million things that can happen in any race really.

But it looks like the best horse from what I've seen over this

whole whole season. Frank Shanks.

Frank inks with us here on Blood Horse Monday.

Check him out bloodhorse.com. Dollars and cents and all the

great things. What's going on here?

One of my favorite names of a of a column going on anywhere.

But Frank, what are you working on this Derby week?

What should people be looking for?

Well, I mean, most of the action this week at Blood Horse is on

the website bloodhorse.com. Just just a tremendous amount of

stories and videos and and this podcast.

But but story wise, for whatever reason, a lot of our stories

this year fell on kind of relationships, working

relationships of connections in the Oaks and Derby.

Eric Mitchell took a look at Mark Cassie and owner Tracy

Farmer. Tracy, of course, has the

homebred La Cara, who's the second choice.

I believe morning line on the Kentucky Oaks just won the

Ashland. Mark's making no secrets of her

strategy. He's she's gone.

So if you want to at least know that your horse is on the lead

at some point, you probably will have a fairly safe bet there.

But that you know, Tracy's had a lot of success with Mark that

won the Belmont Stakes together. So that that's terrific.

And Byron King is has done a story on Belmont Junior

Alvarado. Of course, they will be

partnering with Sovereignty, the second choice in the Derby, one

of those horses that very much looks like it's going to run its

best rate, his best race to date on Saturday.

And then we're looking forward to a story.

Molly Rollins is going to do a story on the relationship of Ian

Wilkes, who of course was the assistant with Carl Nazker when

that when Carl took down the Derby with Unbridled and St.

Sense. Carl of course is now in the

Hall of Fame and Ian's and retired and where is Ian of

course is taken over a lot. A lot of the owners from Carl

moved to Ian. I mean, it's been a few years

now been in the end, they have tremendous success and we'll

have Burnham Square in the in the Derby.

Yeah, it should be a lot of fun there.

Look, Frank, lots going on at the site and and lots going on

with the Derby. But you know, as we get closer

to Friday and Saturday and you think about a journalism, when

do you allow yourself to think, OK, if there is a difference in

in quality here where he could be a step ahead?

Where do you start thinking about Derby and Baltimore and

New York? Do you allow yourself to do that

before Saturday? You know, you, you have to get

through to Derby first. But and the Preakness is, is

interesting in that it's taking on a different complexion.

It, it just seems like so many connections are willing to skip

that race if they if they don't win the Derby and then go go on

to the Belmont, that the change that we've seen in recent years

though is a willingness to really point for the Preakness.

I mean, Chad Brown has had some success with that.

So that is its own challenge. You're going to take on a new

crop of horses that are well rested if you're, if you're in a

Derby winner and, and you make that move as most of them

usually do. So no, I, I, I'm not going to

predict a Triple Crown for any. I'm well aware of of the

challenges of that. So definitely not going to do

that. It's been nice watching that,

that Preakness trail pop up as well.

Obviously we know about the Tessio, but adding the bathhouse

row is one of those preps as well has been a nice thing.

You know, not everybody's developing by the time they need

to get Derby points, Frank. And so having those extra races

a little bit later in the spring.

I think the Maryland Jockey Club has done a good job of realizing

the the changes in modern racing and and they've set up the, you

know, some of these races that have qual that if you win those

races or run well in them, you're now pointed on the

Preakness path. You know that the Oak Lawn race.

So it's the bath house row, I believe, and the Federico

Tessio, which has always been a local angle to the Preakness.

So that that's been really good to see.

The Lexington in a lot of ways has become that.

So yeah, so nice pass for the Preakness to keep that field a

nice field when it's just two weeks after the Derby.

Yeah, of course, Rombauer winner out of the El Camino Real Derby

just a few years ago coming out of Northern California as well.

So yeah, it's set up as a it's a different race, Frank.

It's a it's a good point by you about just the complexion of how

people are getting to the Preakness.

It's not just a bunch of horses running back on two weeks rest.

You're totally right about that. Anything else we need to be

watching for? And of course we want to

encourage people to go check out the magazine as.

Well, you know, it's one of the stories we do every year, but to

me it's always fun and it always points to just the diversity of

different paths to the Derby. And it often starts at a young

age is well, Olivia Newman, who we referenced earlier, our sales

editor, she she has a feature today on Sandman, who's the

highest priced horse to sell at auction in this year's Derby.

Went for 1.2 million for it with our friends from OBS that was at

their March sale as a 2 year old.

And then coming up will be a feature on the lowest price

horse in the field chunk of gold who this is the rare horse that

we could have put our pennies together and picked this one

$2500 at the Fasic Tipton Kentucky Fall yearling sale.

And all he does is show up every race and run hit the board.

So a kind of horse you like to have as an owner, get a check

every race that's. Exactly right.

A chunk of gold. How about that boy there?

You know, we've, we've already had a lot of fun features on the

connections of coal battle. I believe we've had stories on

owner, breeder, trainer, jockey. So we've had all that covered.

We're going to go in a little. Byron's going to catch up with

Evangeline Downs. I mean, one of the fun things

about the Derby is wherever these horses come from, they

usually make some amount of connection with the fans there.

And he of course, debuted with a maiden win at at Evangeline.

So just if you ever need another example of the horses, a Derby

horse can start from anywhere. That's certainly is a reminder

so that that'll be great to hear from him and what he I'll I'll

be actually doing a story on cold front who's who's now

standing in Louisiana started his career in Kentucky, but that

was a well move. Well time move to set him up

there. You know, with the success a

cold battle has had. So a perfect advertisement for

that, sire. There you go.

It is interesting to hear about Sandman being in that February

sale as a 2 year old when Todd comes on and he was talking

about previous numbers and then boom, as soon as we've had OBS

on, we get another graduate of that spring sale that ends up in

the Kentucky Derby here with Sandman.

So it's a perfect timing of all of those things.

The charts are true, Sean, you understand me.

The sales charts, they're real. I'd say that worked out that.

Worked out just. Fine, that's exactly.

Right, Frank, give us your log shot in the Derby.

Who's one that you saw the other day that you thought, OK, he

might get, he might, he might get a piece of this?

You know, one thing that I I mean, I'm not a major

handicapper or anything, but one thing that I've always thought

is when I see a horse do something a little bit

differently, that always catches my eye and it doesn't have to be

super different if you're talking about 20 and one.

So the horse I I really think is an interesting play.

I believe he's 20 and one morning line is Grande random

big race at in the wood was wide throughout.

I mean, it was really kind of really Rodriguez kind of just

got loose on the lead. But if you watch the final part

of that race, Grande really seems to figure some things out

and I think he can improve off of that.

And what I really like, what I haven't seen before, well, I

mean, I've seen it on occasion, but this is pretty rare, is he

worked at Keeneland on what day was that?

Friday, I believe. And then he was on the track

next day at Churchill Downs on Saturday.

Looked great. So just really to me, that's a

horse going in the right direction at 20 to one with a

train by. Oh, who do I get as a trainer?

Todd Pletcher, it's. Pretty good, good, good thing.

And you know, one thing people forget these big time trainers,

they don't just win races with six to five.

They will win races with long shots.

So that that's one to keep an eye on for for sure.

I mean, I often think about Wayne Lucas.

I mean, most of his Derby winners, especially most of his

Derby winners have been long shots.

You know, he won with a Philly on the front end.

She was 10 or 11 to one, but still Philly went in a Derby.

You know, he won with Charismatic, He won with

Grindstone. It was 9:00 to 2:00 because he

was in an entry. If he was winning on his own,

you're looking at 1520 to 1. So it's that's just an example.

Big time trainers win big races with long shots.

So you don't you don't see that. You shouldn't look at that horse

and go, it's just 20 to 1. It's it's all these horses

really you have to give some consideration for.

Well, there you go. He's Frank. gangsbloodhorse.com

goes check out all of the great content all week long in

addition to this podcast. Catch all the videos, great

articles and of course, hey, everything from sales up to the

race day. We've got you covered there at

Blood Horse and bloodhorse.com. Frank, we appreciate you very

much, buddy. Sounds good there.

You go. All right.

We'll see Frank in a couple days back here in Louisville.

They're in the Grand Library. I love it that all these men

that I get to interact with in horse racing have these

beautiful libraries. I'm very jealous.

That's all it is. It's jealous.

Great. There's ours.

That's my radio life, folks, just talking and I don't know

what else we're doing here. But yeah, now I, you know, with

Frank, it's interesting. He brings up 20 to one shot in

this race. Did you notice on the morning no

ones more than 30 to one? Were you?

Surprised by that? No, because that's the way it's

been the last couple. It seems like they're exactly.

Used to be like 50 to one that's.

I wish they still did some 50 to ones 'cause I, I don't know what

the reason is why we stopped doing that.

But you know, I, I liked always seeing the 50 to ones.

Now, part of it, part of it might just stem from the fact

that, you know, the last couple years with Rich Strike winning

80 to 1, you got all the people that are remembering that and

they're just hammering the long. There might not be a.

Yeah, we're not seeing horses get that high.

There's always the same thing happened after mine, that bird

won the Derby. There's always like those couple

years where everybody's kind of hammering the long shots and

then after a few years, so you'll start seeing the 60 to

70, the 80 to one start creeping back up and then that's usually

when one of them hits. So I'll wait to go with the deep

long shots until that happens. But I mean, he makes a great

point about Grande. I remember you and I were on, I

was on your show at the Breeders Cup.

We were talking about Sierra Leone and the Classic.

And I said everybody's been on Sierra Leone every single race

except for this one. This could be the time where he

finally wins since people are off of him.

That's what happened. Last two years.

Everybody's been on the Ripoli and the Pletcher horses.

Forte, who he ended up scratching, but he was the

favorite before he scratched. Fierceness was the favorite last

year. Everybody's been on them, but

he's talking about the Pletcher Ripoli horse this year.

Maybe this is the one where they finally breakthrough and win it.

And I agree with Frank that this horse will be moving forward off

of that after. Last time.

I agree. With you could just see

everything, you know in that run.

Yes, you know, the horse didn't win, but you've got to look.

You've got to look at what's digging a little bit deeper.

I completely agree with Frank on that one.

That should be man, I don't love it as much as Sean, but I I love

the Derby, man, I, I just because you don't love anything

as much as you love the Kentucky Derby.

So I can't even, you know, there's there's very not, not

everything sandwiches fairly the Derby.

But it is, it is so fun this this week when we really have a

sense of, you know, we know the 21 horses that could run in this

thing, right? Like we know that now it's

settled. It's, you know, I love the road

to the Derby for sure. But this, this there's a bit of

magic these six days. Yeah, trying to put the puzzle

together of, of Frank making a good point about Grande.

I have to really ride out a a wood memorial.

And we we do this thing in horse racing where we're like, oh,

whatever they did in the last race, they're just going to do

it again. But horses taking steps forward

at this time of year. The puzzle this week is just so

phenomenal. I love it so, so much.

And so I hope everyone else is having fun with it as well.

This is BLOOD HORSE Monday. She's Cali Francois.

He's Sean Collins. And I'm Louis Ribo.

Thanks for hanging out with us today.

We'll close with this. We talked Derby.

We talked Oaks. This card is is Breeders' Cup in

the spring, right? We get a bunch of grade ones.

We get a bunch of grade twos Friday and Saturday.

Who's a horse that's running in a different race that you're

looking forward to this weekend. And you know, even to we're even

down to like I put up, I'm going to have King Russell on top of

the race this week. I think he's had him close to

the top in the Derby a few years ago, so I hope he does better

for you than he did for me. That would be nice for me.

No, but we get to see, you know, obviously the the obvious ones,

fierceness is here, Torpedo Anna is here.

We get to see these kinds of horses.

Is there someone in this fields that you're you're looking

forward to seeing? I'm going to cheat and I'm going

to jump off the weekend and go to Wednesday.

OK. I'm interested to see Anna Marie

at a mile and a half and the Isaac Murphy.

I mean, that's that's going to be one of the highlights for me.

I was disappointed that next wasn't going to be in the race

this year. And I got Anna Marie in the

race. I'm like, all right, that's

pretty interesting. I want to see how he handles

that mile and a half. I think that might be right up

his alley. So it's obviously torpedo and I

want to see how I think we, we talked about her a couple weeks

ago. You know, there's been a lot of

talk about so far this year she hasn't looked as maybe as

impressive. I'm one of those people.

And you know, she is a horse that I just think she does what

she needs to do to win. This is gonna be the test for

her. This is gonna, this is a real

field. These are gonna be the top older

fillies and mares. We're gonna find out whether

she's gonna be the queen of the mountain until we get to the

three-year olds taking on the older horses or if one of these

older horses gonna have a shot out at her if she wins like she

usually does this weekend. There's not an older horse, an

older fillier mare in the country that can beat her.

It's interesting you said this. What are we more likely to see

in your mind? She goes down on Friday, or it's

good cheer, or one of these horses in the Oaks that actually

ends up pushing her later in. The year it's going to be one of

the three-year olds, OK, I think I think she's got it.

I think she's got it on Friday. I think she's going to run third

off the layoff. I think she's going to run huge

and sounds like they're looking Stephen Foster.

That's that's going to be exciting.

Sex with her by the way, and I like to to do this mental

exercise you're if you want to score big on Oaks day, you have

to beat her. Is that right in your mind?

She's the everyone. Oh yeah, if you're trying to

play the multi race wagers or just trying to hit any.

In that bet, in that race or something you're going to have.

To try to you need her to lose for that tad.

OK, OK. I I always try to figure out who

that horse is going to be. I think she's the easiest one I

can remember in Oaks Derby history.

I'm not exaggerating. I think it's the easiest one I

can remember. Yeah.

Gosh, was no, because Flightline didn't.

He ran into the Met Mile, so he wasn't here.

Yeah, I think that's the easiest one I can remember.

You know, I was way on bricks and mortar.

But that's that's a two turn grass race.

There's no guarantees of that, right?

I mean, it's other people got bet in that race.

All right, Kelly, who are you looking forward?

To seeing book em Dano and. That.

Was a really good one. Oh, I like that, yeah.

And then that whole, you know, with fierceness coming back back

in, forgive me the name of the steak, but that whole field LE

Shiba. Thank you.

Yes, of course it just. It's possible.

The boys that that field as a whole, just, that's going to be

fun to watch. Yes, it is.

Yes, yeah, I'm very excited about the LE Shiba race.

I think Torpedo Annan's going to get pushed here.

I think she wins, but I think she gets pushed.

I think it's a spectacular race because it's quality raging

season. I mean it's just quality in that

race up and down. So I'm pumped about that.

I, I have realized too, because you and I have this 7R to do

tomorrow night, how much turf racing I have to watch tonight,

tomorrow ahead of that thing just to get back into the swing

of all those horses shipping in for the, for the, the big one,

you know, the old forester into the American turf.

And the American turf, by the way, has become one of the great

races in North America every year.

It's. What three horses in the Derby

that could have ran in that race, no question so.

Well, let's do it. Flying Mohawk in in the in the

American turf or or final game, but in the American turf, if

final game were in the American turf, I think he'd be on top for

me. I'd, I would bet both of them to

win in that case, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I think they're both

right, right there. Anything else that we need to

cover on an hour and 44 almost minute edition of Blood Horse

Monday? I'm not mad at all.

This has been awesome. Really fun.

Great sound from you, Sean, for sure.

And for me with Brooke Smith, the it's funny.

I held the camera for some of your interviews.

Come on. So did Cali.

Yeah, she did a better job then. She's coming for you, Louis.

I can't have friends anymore. This is no but, but just as we

get closer, I, I hope people will check out all the work that

we're doing around here on ESPN Louisville, 7:00 to noon every

day, Eastern Time, Monday through Thursday.

Kelly and I will be on three hours on Oaks Day, 9:50 to 1:11

to 1:00 on Derby day. If you just want to throw us on

on the smart speaker in the kitchen when you're getting

ready for your Derby party, something like that.

Please come out to the seminar tomorrow if you're able in

Louisville, 7:00 out of Blind Squirrel, the East End here in

town. Get there a little early, but

I'll buy your dinner and I'll certainly not charge you to get

in. We would love to see you

tomorrow night. Sean's going to be hanging out

with us the rest of the week on radio as well.

We're going to drag you. You're gonna get.

You have to work, buddy. That's how it works.

I don't know. I've got you've seen my

schedule. It's busy, busy every morning.

But I guess you're going to the races with your mom or

something. How about that?

Yeah. The only person I know that

likes horse racing more than Sean is his mom.

That's it. That's that's that's where it

is. That's where we're at.

You're a lucky guy that way. My mom's like.

So do they turn left or right? What do we do here?

Which end has the the mouth on it?

You know, like my mom, just nothing.

So you're lucky. You're lucky.

All right. Well, Callie, thank you so much

for sitting in. I know this was a longer episode

but just turned out really well and and appreciate you making

the venture for a for Derby week and all those.

Listen, I mean right back at you guys.

Thank you guys for allowing me to join on this episode.

What a phenomenal episode that we have leading up on Blood

Horse Monday into the Derby. Both of you have done phenomenal

work to make this episode happen.

So pat yourselves on the back because I had to blast this

episode and I know you guys did too.

There we go, love everywhere here at the.

One horse. Oh man, it's the good stuff for

sure. And Sean, man, you know, God,

how many episodes is this? A dozen now.

Is it? No, this is 13 or 14.

OK, so we're just over that Mark, you're, you're a Derby

geek for sure. And and there, look, there's

nothing wrong with that this week, man.

Greatest week of the. Year Are you having fun?

Yes, good. I'm going to quote my good

friend Stan Bowling. This is Christmas in May.

Yeah. Or I guess technically we're

still in April right now around here on April Slash.

Around here, I tell people this is my final four, right?

This is my final four, right? Everybody's in town, everybody's

got to work. You know, it's, it's busy, but

it's fun and all the things. Yeah.

One thing we have not done yet, OK, we need to close the show on

given our Derby picks. OK.

We can definitely do that. OK, Sean, where are you

journalism? OK.

Am I? I always pick three every year,

so my other two are Coal Battle and Burnham Square.

OK, let's do top three. I think that's really.

Reasonable journal journalism is my #1, Coal Battle and Burnham

Square. That has been my top three since

the end of March, even before Burnham Square came back and won

the Bluegrass, so I'm sticking with it.

Frank loves here in Coal Battle for sure.

He loves the story there, loves the Arkansas route this year to

the Derby. Top three for Cali today.

We know it's Monday and look, you might see something or some.

Changes. I probably just got all three of

those horses scratch. Everybody's scratch.

Burnham Square is my top selection and then I go with a

sovereignty and then journalism. OK, I always pick a horse who's

the best of their, of their running style in the three

spots. So oppressors, frontrunners, and

deep closers. The best deep closer.

This year's sovereignty in my mind, he's #1 for me, the best

front runner is Rodriguez. I have him #2 and I think, I

think he's far and away the best horse that's going to be on the

front of this race. And I totally trust Bob Baffert

to have him ready. And then journalism for sure is

the best presser, middle of the pack kind of horse in this race.

Whatever that's going to look like.

Sit fit 6 in the pocket there. Make his move at the end under.

Now, friend of the show Umberto Rispoli, who said your name way

more than he said mine, but the those would be the three that I

would lean on the hardest. I don't think I'm longer than 12

to one with any of those horses. So I'm not breaking the bank

here at all, but I think those three are gonna stand out for

me. Can I say who I think the most

important horse in the races this year?

Let me guess. Let me guess.

E Avenue. No Citizen Bowl in the one.

Nope. American Promise.

OK, Why? I think American Promise is the

most important horse. I think the race entirely,

entirely depends on him because he is going to be the one that

is going to be up there and decides what the bat for horses

get to do. And he's going to be the one

that gets to decide whether they're going to kind of help

each other and walk the dog up there or he's going to be the

one that pushes them and sets it up for whoever is going to be

coming from behind. So I think American Promise is

the key of the race. You think he gets out ahead of

East Avenue even? Well, he's inside of E Avenue,

so he could also he could also play the role of having to force

E Avenue to go wider than he needs to in the first turn.

I think those two are going to. Be I wish I could see Nick Wars

doing and doing. Well, exactly.

You know, Lucas likes to mess with those Baffert horses, so I

think he's the most important. I think the entire race is

centered around what American promised us.

OK, All right. I love that take.

Should we do top three oaks? You know, you know who my number

one is, but I guess number one obviously for me, we've talked

about it a lot on the show's good cheer.

She's been my number one. I agree with you since the since

the Rex riches, my Lakara. Just she looks incredible.

Every morning she gallops like she's the thing.

Is I don't usually fall in love during workouts.

She is so consistent, so energetic.

Gallops like she releases. She's going to run huge she's

honestly I agree with that She's going to run as a good as a good

cheer fan. I'm a little worried whether

she's going to be able to get up to her at the end.

Simply joking. I also.

Think, OK, I was going to say that's my other one I can't get.

Over also she looks. Great too.

The other Beckman, who is Drexel Hill, looks.

Thank you, She said it. She's sitting on a huge race.

Agreed. So I do have good cheer on top.

I like simply joking, but Drexel Hill is you've got it.

Just rewatch that New York race and you'll see she stumbles, but

she was taking her time just kind of readjusting herself.

I made the joke to Louis earlier.

I rolled my ankle previously and you know, if you ever roll your

ankle and you feel kind of that Stinger for about 20 steps after

that and then you're fine. I think that's it.

Not that she rolled her ankle or anything in that race, but kind

of a little bit of that reaction.

Disorienting. Almost not.

Halfway there and halfway. Just got it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I, I do think, by the

way, I think the winner of the Gazelle ballerina Dioro's very

live in the exacta trifecta in this race.

No question about she's going to run late.

So if Lacar gets out there way too fast, she might actually be

able to close into it. But I, I do think a lot of her,

I've never seen Chad Brown react less to a horse winning than

that. He just knew at at Aqueduct that

day. He they just hey, Congrats,

shout like, like nothing like he just knew she was the best horse

that day that she was gonna be there.

And we have seen horses come out of both the Ashland and the

Gazelle. They run really, really well.

The Kentucky Oaks as well. So there you go.

Well, you 2, stay hydrated. Get to sleep when you can.

I'll see you tomorrow morning for radio.

I'll probably see you tomorrow morning just because it's

Churchill. That wants yeah.

Where are you gonna see nothing? Where?

Where would you possibly find where?

Would we see Sean Collins? I could be anywhere of one place

in the world tomorrow. Yeah, next one, right.

That's exactly right. Let me get the the the magazine

up there as well. Make sure you subscribe, make

your your coffee table more beautiful.

That's really what we suggest there on Blood Horse Monday.

Plus, look, you go to the track, you like to have those paper

tickets, get the magazine in your house, get that paper

magazine in your house, bloodhorse.com, of course, go.

You can subscribe there or use the QR code that is on the

screen right now. But it's time for us to get out

of here. We've held you long enough.

Do the rest of our prep here for Kentucky Derby week, but this

has been Blood Horse Monday. His name is Sean, she's Cali,

and I'm Louis. Thanks so much for making time

for us. Thanks to Emberto Wristley and

of course, all of our guests from the draw and our guy Frank

inks back there at Blood Horse and bloodhorse.com.

We'll see you next week, a little Derby wrap on Blood Horse

Monday. The Blood Horse is dedicated to

the improvement of Thoroughbred breeding and racing for over 100

years. Don't forget to like, subscribe

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For the latest news, analysis and insights, visit us at

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see you next week.