BloodHorse Monday 5/11/26 | Ocelli heads to Preakness

Welcome into a another Triple Crown edition, a blood horse

Monday, May 11th 2026 edition he Shaw College.

My name is Louie Robot. Thanks for hanging out with us.

Start your horse racing week with us ahead of a trip to

Laurel. Things I've never said before on

this show, but yes, we'll be headed there.

Golden Tempo might be skipping the Preakness, but we're not.

We are not skipping the Preakness.

We'll be on site this coming weekend, of course, all of our

great coverage. Bobby Holt will be there.

Frank Angst will be there. Lots of great members of the

Blood Horse team will be on site there at Laurel Park as part of

our coverage this week. Of course, we're presented by

our friends over at FanDuel. Download the app today, the

FanDuel Racing app, and get you a wagering together.

Maybe start building that back roll a little bit ahead of the

Preakness. You know you.

Know get yourself something, something to bet with.

That's right, get into that that you know that little.

I love the the pick three leading into a Triple Crown race

is my like those are my three favorite sequences of the year.

I just love doing that. Maybe the Breeders Cup too, you

know, that kind of thing, like just those, those leading in

because usually you get a dirt Sprint, some kind of turf route,

yeah, and then you get the big race, right?

Those are really. Fun on the big race this year is

going to be a wide open 14 horse race so there's money to be made

out there so make sure you go ahead and download that FanDuel

app yeah this. Week for sure, but no, look,

Preakness in the the front, you know, of the view here over the

weekend, though, you know, we always like to do our race, our

recaps here. What's going on the weekend

recap here. This part of the show presented

by a friend, of course, Alex Smallwood, at Christie's

Bluegrass Peter Pan over the weekend.

We're still in the three-year old season here, folks.

Ready Jumping? Ahead to the bell.

Line well and one of the interesting storylines at Laurel

is that they're running at Laurel and the winner of the

Tessio hasn't done the thing since 1984 to Pew to testimony.

But Taj Mahal is going to be amongst the favorites.

We'll get there in a second. But you know, Peter Pan, you

could say what you want, but the list of winners of this race, a

bunch of great winners on here, man.

I mean, ain't Aquarians on this list Growth equity, of course,

the winner this year, Hill Rd. I'm doing this off top of my

head. Eric Angelo went on to win the

Belmont. So it's it is it is a race drawn

that especially recently we have met a lot of on the rise 3 year

olds who have gone on to other things.

Cuz I I wonder if people forget Archangel also won the traverse

that year. Yeah, right.

This wasn't a flash of the pack out of horse champion 3 year

old. Yeah right.

I mean two grade ones. Was he the.

Favorite for the Breeders Cup before he had to scratch.

I think he was the morning line. Favorite I think that's right.

I mean just how good of a year he had, but it started really in

states company in the Peter Pan. And so we see to, you know, in

in this race, we see growth equity win for Chad Brown.

Boy, have we heard this story before?

Probably gives him another Belmont *.

That's going to be a full gate too man.

Seems like it right now in a way, everybody's pointing that

way and I'm sure maybe we'll get a couple horses from the

Preakness that go on there as well.

But you're going to have Golden Tempo, you're going to have

Renegade. They're definitely going to be

the headliners. I know Chad mentioned that he's

thinking about emerging market in addition to having growth

equity potentially. It sounds like Otino is heading

that way as well since he wasn't able to make the Preakness or

Chad. 'S Is it a turf race, the

Belmont this year? Is that why Chad has three in

there? But maybe we'll see.

But but I mean, Chad's had a lot of success here at the Peter Pan

Hill Rd. last year, Country Grammar a few years back.

Country grammar. That's a good.

One yeah, timeline. So he's had some good ones.

The one thing that I'm thinking about when it comes to the Peter

Pan is at least since it's moved to the Belmont's been at

Saratoga. Antiquarian obviously is a very

nice horse. He came back and won a Grade 1

as a four year old, but he wasn't really much of an impact

in the Belmont itself. Same with Hill Rd. last year.

So the two years that it's been at Saratoga, we haven't seen

much impact from the Peter Pan. So we'll see whether or not

growth equity is one of those and who knows?

I mean they mentioned maybe growth equity is going to go the

path of Monmouth Park as well, the Pegasus and then to the

Haskell. And with, you know, I don't

think Chad would be opposed to running multiple horses in the

race, obviously, but the fact he has the same ownership,

Clarevich Staples as a emerging market, We'll see whether or not

they both end up in the starting gate or not.

But I I did like his win this weekend, though.

I thought it was a professional win first.

Time going two turns. First time going two turns.

Talk to me. Jimmy is a really good horse.

Especially a really good horse, actually.

And when he gets the lead, and so he gave it his all this

weekend and growth equity was able to run him down.

So he seems like one of those horses.

We've seen plenty of Chad Brown horses that start kind of

maturing at this time of the year and are going to go on to

big summers. And so this this could

definitely be one of them. Unlike an emerging market, who

we all heard about in early fall of last year where where Chad

Brown started talking about him in a way that he really thought

he was his Derby horse had to develop much later because of an

illness. Yeah.

This is not a horse like that. Growth equity is one that is

he's maturing now. Exactly.

It's very opposite of of what that is.

And so I'm with you, too. I had not thought about the

Haskell angle. Yeah, the Monmouth angle

actually makes a lot. Of sense, yeah, they said

yesterday when he was talking with the Naira publicity, he

said that that that was possibly an option for him as well going

running that Pegasus Stakes, which I believe is the weekend

after the Belmont and then the Haskell on July 18th.

So if you're if he's not ready to jump into the deep waters of

the Belmont yet, that's a good little progression for him going

from the Pegasus into the into the Haskell and then probably

from the Haskell into the Travers.

I'd imagine, especially the Travers, I think it's a week

later than usual this year because of where Labor Day is.

So that that would definitely I think maybe be the route there

if they decide not to go to Belmont.

Chad joined us on as part of our blood horse at the Derby series

that we did and one of the things he said about Emerging

Market was after the maiden win in Tampa, he loved that six

weeks to New Orleans and then the six weeks to the Derby.

What's interesting with growth equity is I think his preference

here would be let's give him the five weeks in to the race in New

Jersey. Yeah, Monmouth.

And then he can run back in a month.

It almost feels like, OK, he just ran now.

I ran in the Peter Pan. All right, let's give a little

bit of time. Seems like actually a path that

they might take. Yeah.

And I think that if they just do decide to take that path, it's

an easier choice because, you know, the owner already has

emerging market for the Belmont. So I think that's definitely a

it's a good problem here. Yeah, it's.

A good problem to have. So you either take two shots at

the Belmont or you split them up and take shots at different

races. So it's a good problem to have

right now for for the team there behind growth equity.

It was nice to see Monmouth this weekend.

Did you see the crowd there yesterday?

I did, yes. I love Monmouth.

I, well you and I are both. Yeah, I've said both.

Stands for sure, but go ahead. Yeah, I've said this on the show

before, Monmouth outside. So I'm obviously, as a Kentucky

Derby super fan since I was five years old, I'm obviously biased

to put Churchill Downs in the number one spot on my favorite

race. Track and frankly for the two of

us, it's it is our home track. Yes, yes, but, but even before

it was my home track, you know, that was always going to be my

favorite. But Monmouth is far and away

ahead of everything else as my as my #2 I just, I love Monmouth

Park. It's good to take.

It's such a yeah, it's such a great race track.

It's exactly kind of the way I feel like racing is supposed to

feel. You have that old time feel at

Monmouth, but at the same time, you know, they're modernizing

the facility a little bit as well.

And so I just, I love Monmouth and it's a shame that I only

ever get to go there once a year.

I know for the Haskell, I've only ever been there on a non

Haskell day once. And it was for my birthday back

when I was in high school. That was, they were open on my

birthday. And I'm like, that's the track

I'm going through on my birthday.

So, so the one time where that happened And so, but that's,

I've been going to Monmouth now for this will be 12 years.

And that that's the I've only been there on non Haskell day

once, but boy do I love being there.

And, and whether it was that day or whether it's Haskell day, I

just love going to Monmouth. I wish, I wish I lived closer so

I could go. More often someone commented

that they it was yesterday on Mother's Day to them, the

largest non Haskell crowd at Monmouth in years.

And let's just take that anecdote for what it is.

Let's just say it was a really good day, not that it was the

best non Haskell day. Whatever.

How much did you read about winning the Derby?

Get people out to the track, man.

I'm being serious right now. Is there a moment happening

right now? Well, I think I think the one

thing that a lot of people, especially out of like Twitter

and stuff like that, that people don't want to accept is in the

last couple of years, racing's popularity in the general public

has been increasing from what it was, you know, pre COVID.

And so I think a lot of people, a lot of people are going to

point out what we're going to talk about in a moment with the

Triple Crown not being pursued in the last couple of years.

A lot of people are pointing toward that.

A lot of people are pointing to some of the track closures and,

you know, everything going on down in Florida and you know,

there's obviously a lot of problems in the industry right

now that make it look like we're in a bad spot.

And in a lot of areas we are in a bad spot.

But people are showing up to the track and there's quite a few

race tracks that are starting to see, I feel like increase.

If you look at the track like Fairmount Park in Illinois, you

know, a smart small track over there and you always see great

crowds. You know what?

People are posting about it. Online.

Canterbury's like that. When I went out to Emerald Downs

last year for the Long Acres Mile, that place was packed.

And there's excitement around horse racing and there is, you

know, there's been some social media stuff.

Obviously everything Griffin Johnson did, you know, plays a

role in that. You know, there's been an

increase in horse racing on social media.

There's been an increase in horse racing, I think on like

general television. I think the sports betting, it

is starting to make people pay somewhat of an attention to

horse racing and they're like, oh, what else can I bet on?

Oh, let's bet on the horses. Or more than that.

The stigma's gone around gambling.

When I started doing this man, I I got side eye from people.

Oh, you cover. Oh, the betting thing.

Yeah exactly. Like no I got the side eye from.

People more accepted it is, it is.

A different world now, man. And it it is part of it's like,

you know, you know how I came up.

People used to look down on me. No, but like, you know, the.

But no, but it was, there was a stigma around it.

And that's gone, man. Yeah.

And then you get this great moment of Sheree Devoe's

likeable. Exactly.

She looks like your neighbor. Like like like some.

Of you could how many you can. Understand.

How many shows she's been on the last week?

She's been everywhere. Everything.

Yeah. It's unbelievable what a great

ambassador we ended up getting out of Sheree Devoe this year

for the sport. She has handled all those

interviews fantastically and she's just been a great voice

race for racing during this past week and she's been everywhere.

She's been going going to New York, same with Jose Ortiz.

Her. I saw Cherie on the backside on

Thursday morning and then like 2 hours later I see a video of her

at Yankee Stadium. Yep, throwing out the first

pitch with Jose Ortiz. And then three hours after that,

here's Jose Ortiz winning a race at Churchill Downs.

So I mean, they're they're getting the miles in and they're

getting the travel in. But yeah, they've been in great

ambassadors for the sport this week for sure.

And I think when you get, you know, this was Rich Strike being

the huge long shot. That was a story that kind of

transcended the sport and went into the national media because

people were amazed by the run, the deep closing run, amazed by

the long shot story, amazed by like the people like Eric Reed

and that story about how it was barn and burned down years ago.

And so it left the horse racing circle and it stayed and it

stirred in the national public for for longer than usual.

And we're seeing that same thing happened here with Cherie being

the first woman to win the Kentucky Derby as a trainer.

Again, the phenomenal come from behind run.

People love to watch that. And so we're getting that again

right now and we got to take advantage of it.

And it looks like some of these tendencies, I don't know, you

know, at Monmouth, I feel like on I've always seen kind of good

crowds from them on Mother's Day, but it definitely felt a

little extra this year. And so that probably that

probably has quite a bit to do with that as well.

People see horse racing and you know, you know what, that'll be

fun. And then they go out to the

track the next weekend. So let's hope that that

continues. We'll get back to Sheree in a

moment. I need to discuss something very

important with you. OK?

And this is a Bob E Halt crusade.

I have a friend in radio who says you do radio for two

reasons, and there are only two reasons.

Help your friends hurt your enemies, OK?

OK. This is a help your friends

this. Is not radio show, this is a

podcast. This is a help your friends

moment. Bobby Halt is our friend.

We care deeply about Bobby Halt. Yes, we do.

Find him at bloodhorse.com. The Take the A Train Stakes that

they just ran at Aqueduct. Won by Cadenza, by the way.

She's an interesting horse. We'll get inside in a second.

You can't take the A Train to Belmont.

Are you serious? There is no A train to Belmont.

You have to like cross a highway, take a bus, catch an

Uber after the bus. Can you take the A train to

aqueduct? Yes.

So when they move the race, they're going to have.

To OK, so this is the question cannot take the A train to

Belmont. There is no stakes race named

after Bob's home village called Queens village which is the just

to the West of Belmont is a town called Queens village.

I'm suggesting take the A train is now should be the Queens

village get it done Naira get it done for Bobby halt or you just

call it the Bobby halt like. Oh, I'm OK with the Bobby Halt

Stakes. It's a turf Sprint.

Whatever. Who cares?

That would be great, actually. Yeah.

The Bob gets a turf Sprint. The Bobby.

Should we mess? Should we mess with him and call

it the Bobby Halt Memorial Memorial?

Well is there what? What train?

Do you dare take Bobby Halt for me?

What are you doing? Is there a train that goes into

that or we're just switching it to take the B train or take the

CI don't need? To see.

How dare you put that out there. What are you doing right now?

Delete that. What do we?

Percher enemies? What?

No, Bob's our friend. What are you doing?

I do like the Bobby Hall sticks, I think.

I think that's exactly what. We should nothing against the A

train. I got nothing against the A

train. Yes, you do.

It doesn't go to. Bell.

Allegedly. Well, that part, You know what?

You know what? I do have a problem.

Bleep off a train. How about that?

Yeah, you're. Not gonna have any need to take

the A train now. Who takes the A train anymore?

What's aqueduct closes? What need is there to be an A

train? Just get rid of the whole line.

You know who needs an A train once aqueduct?

Closes nobody. It's a fantastic question.

No one needs to go to work at the grocery store, whatever

people do on the A train. All right.

So that area of New York just stops existing once Aqueduct

closes. It's just not there.

Anymore, we actually turned Ozone Park into a park.

I'm down for that. No casinos, none of that.

Oh man, the good stuff for sure. All right.

So I met you mentioned Cherie handling all the interviews very

well. She also decided to handle her

horse in a way that is unpopular for many people, Yes, by not

going to the previous, OK. And it is.

It is a decision that we have now seen frankly over half of

the last five Preaknesses. Yeah, three of the last five.

OK. And that is if you care about

the Triple Crown a problem, OK, Now I, I, I want to say a couple

of things. I think last year we heard from

the group that they don't care about the Triple Crown, OK.

I think this year I'm not, I'm not getting that sense at all.

I think Sheree Devoe just doesn't think her horse can run

back in two weeks. Yeah, OK.

I I just, I think that's the motivation here is that she just

thinks he can't do it. OK, Now, I've seen some, some

things on, you know, in comments and different things about like,

oh, he's very unlikely to win the trouble crown.

Yeah. You know who's unlikely to win

the trouble crown? Everyone.

You're unlikely to win the trouble crown.

It's OK. Like, we get it.

That's not the point. Sir Martin was a maiden going

into the Kentucky Derby. This kind of stuff, you're not

supposed to win the Triple Crown.

That's the idea. Your reaction to him not going

to the Preakness since that happened since we last taped.

I'm not happy. Obviously.

I'm a very big Triple Crown fan. The Triple Crown is what got me

into the sport. Can we also kind of pause real

quick The Preakness itself, for those of us who do this is one

of the grand events of the year because it's it is.

It's much more casual than the Derby, the the stakes barn

itself, where all of the horses are together.

People if people don't know. I'm gonna miss that this year.

At no, they set one up. Are they doing it?

Yes. OK, I've been here and horses

are in different barns at this point.

So moving to 1, I, I have it on, I have it on authority better

than ours that there will be, there will be one that's

awesome. But at Pimlico, it's worth

mentioning like there was, there was a Preakness barn, there was

a stakes barn where where literally all the major trainers

who were in from out of town were all in the same place.

So for us in media, it's like, oh, I need to talk to Steve

Asmussen and then Chad Brown and then and then Bob Baffert.

We're all. Everybody's just.

Chilling. We're all just right there and

it's all very casual. Yeah, you.

Just walk by and there's Bob Baffert and Dewayne Lucas just

having a conversation, just talking.

Right. I mean, when when journalism won

last year, Michael McCarthy was just around the barn.

Yeah, they were just hanging out.

And it's a it's just that kind of thing.

So I think a lot of us just have a soft spot for the Preakness

because in our job it's is the easiest and the most casual.

And the frankly, you get quotes at that thing that because of

the casual nature you might not get at other places.

People kind of open up about stuff.

So I, I wanted to start with that.

I have a soft spot for it because it is just the people

around Maryland love it #1 but #2 that it is, it's just so

easy. It just feels so different.

It's almost like the we need a break after Derby and then we

actually get one. We get to watch this great day

of racing, but also at the same time we get a break.

Go ahead, I apologize. No, no, it's, yeah, it's, it's

concerning for sure that now we're starting to get it.

It's last year. I, I, I use sovereignty as an

example here because last year we heard the, we want to prolong

his career. You know, we, we think this is

the best thing. And we saw the results of that.

You know, we all expected that, you know, with his ownership

being a dolphin that the Dubai World Cup was going to be in my

mind, the Dubai World Cup was the reason that they skipped the

Preakness was because we care, you know, the owner, Sheikh

Mohammed for and he has every right to think so.

He cares more about his Derby winner coming out to the to

Dubai and winning the Dubai World Cup in front of his home

base. That obviously didn't happen.

He missed the Breeders Cup because he got sick and that

illness took long enough to where it knocked him out of

contention for the Dubai World Cup.

And so we see where we saw last year where the plan to skip the

Preakness to prolong his career. Well, yes, we did get him back

for a four year old season this year and we'll hopefully get him

in the Breeders Cup this year. We already saw a phenomenal race

when he went up against the way to barrio and journalism and the

that's great for horse racing too.

But you know what's also great for horse racing?

Winning the Triple Crown. And the reason why they skipped

the Triple Crown, At least what I believe the reason they

skipped the Triple Crown, didn't pan out down the line because

you never know what's going to happen.

And let's be very clear too, Michael Banahan came on this

show after they decided to campaign him as a four year old

and said had he won the British Cup class, we might not have

seen him again. Exactly.

OK. So it's not that plan even?

Yeah. So even that plan, you never

know. For longevity and I look and I'm

not, I'm not. This isn't criticism.

He just said it right. Like if they won that race, then

that that that was it. Yeah, you're all of a sudden

you're the Kentucky Derby, Belmont, Travers, Breeders' Cup

Classic. Word change of things for sure.

Yeah. And so, so we are lucky that we

have sovereignty back this year. About how much?

And obviously if he won the Triple Crown, I don't think

there's a shot he'd be racing this year at all.

But you know, it's great for racing within the racing circle

that he's back this year. I don't know how much the

general public cares about the fact that he's back.

I agree with that. What will the general public

care about? Had he done it last year was him

winning the Triple Crown, they would have cared about that.

And so, you know, it's one of those things we've seen now

where, you know, I, I just, I hate using.

And you know, obviously, if you're choosing to skip the

Preakness, like when she remade the announcement and she posted

the thing online, obviously those are going to be the same

kind of talking points. You know, we want to look out

for the length of his career and all that.

But the Triple Crown's the most important thing you a horse can

do in their career. That's the biggest part of this

sport is winning the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness and the

Belmont. We're going to have Whit Beckman

on to talk about Ocelli here in a few moments.

And he says that same thing about how the Triple Crown,

these are the races. The Preakness is the second most

prestigious race in this country and there's a lot of people who

have forgotten that it seems like in the last couple of

years. But you look historically the

Derby's number one and the Preakness is number 2.

Because the Preakness is the race where the Derby horses were

always in it and you had the top three-year olds were in that

race and then you would see if the Derby winner won.

A lot of times you started seeing the top three-year olds

then skip the Belmont, that if they weren't going up against

him. We tried him twice, we lost

twice. We're going to go elsewhere.

And in the general public's perspective, the Belmont is only

important. When the Triple Crown is on the

line. I spent a lot of years being in

a non horse racing area in Pennsylvania and you couldn't

get people to care about the Belmont if the horse hadn't, if

the Derby winner hadn't won the previous just couldn't do.

It it is still just a fact that over half the tracks in the

United States have their biggest day on Kentucky Derby day,

whether they're racing or not. OK, whether they're racing or

not, these, these Triple Crown races matter.

Keep going. Yeah.

And so the Preakness is just in I, I know if the horses are

trained differently now, there's a lot of different rules when it

comes to the medication and stuff in the last couple years.

I don't know how much that really plays a role into this as

well. But it, it seems like all of a

sudden a lot of people are looking at the Belmont as being

the more prestigious of the two races.

And for all I, I personally, you look at the Preakness from what,

2001 till 2010, the three-year old champion was the Preakness

winner or yeah, the three-year old champion was the Preakness

winner every year. And Rachel Alexandra being, you

know, the three-year old Philly champion in her year.

And so that's the race where it seems like historically there's

been, there's been like that that one's holds a lot more

weight historically. And I don't know if in the last

two years, you know, the Belmont's been more appealing as

a mile and a quarter. Do as many horses skip the

Preakness if they have the mile and a half waiting, you might

see more horses coming back and taking a shot in the Preakness

once it goes to back to a mile and 1/2 next year.

So, you know, that could possibly play a role in it.

But but yeah, it's just now the one good thing is we don't have

to worry about anybody putting an asterisk on the Triple Crown

winner for winning the Belmont in a mile and 1/4.

So at least at least we're we're free of that argument going

forward. But yeah, I just.

Dumbest argument. Ever.

I know don't all you need to do is win the three wins.

They could be 200 yards sprints and you still win the Triple

Crown. But but yeah, it's I don't think

I'm obviously on the side of we should leave the Triple Crown as

it is. But, you know, we got to do

what's best for the sport. And if if we if the Belmont goes

back to a mile and a half and the Belmont goes back to, you

know, Belmont Park and we don't see a change back to where it

was. And we still see people skipping

the Preakness, especially the Derby winner.

And the other part of this too. And this is a point Mark Cassie

made when we talked to him on the phone about silent tactic

the other day. Jenny Rees and I is not only

does the Preakness suffer at the moment, being two weeks at the

Derby, but the whole undercard suffers too because a lot of

horses see the Derby undercard races.

You have a race for practically every division.

Same at the Belmont we also do at the Preakness.

But a lot of horses are now skipping Preakness weekend to

round, Belmont weekend versus, you know, I've never liked the

idea of switching it to where they're all month apart from

each other. But you know, that would end up

helping the undercard races as you would go from the all the

horses that ran on Derby weekend, would then run on

Preakness weekend and then run on Belmont weekend as well and

kind of give you 3 little mini breeders cups essentially

leading up to the Breeders Cup itself.

So yeah. So here's my prediction.

Yep. OK, here's what I think the

logical outcome should be. OK.

You move the Preakness back one week, you move the Belmont one

week, and you have three weeks between races because then it's

still a condensed series, it's still difficult, and if you want

it, people would still respect it, OK?

We also have to be concerned about stretching the races out

too far to where the general public forgets it.

Well that's that's the other benefit of the Preakness being

two weeks after the derbies. Is it still fresh?

In typically, that's right, yeah.

Here's the here's. Here's the problem then.

It's six weeks from the Derby to the Belmont, and I was told by

Chad Brown to my face that he likes six weeks between races.

And here's the thing, if you think this is stopping soon,

you're going to hear someone say we're not going to Baltimore.

I like 8 weeks between races. Yeah.

It's coming. If we put it out there, they

will take advantage. I'm telling you right now, I do

not think 8 weeks between the between any of the Triple Crown

races is good for anything. Yeah, at all.

And by the way, again, I just think people go, oh good, I get

an extra month, I get oh cool, oh cool.

It's not 5 weeks, I get 8. I think they'll get more excited

about the 8:00 than the five or the six or whatever.

But one to six like that just sets it up that everybody's

going to go to the Belmont. Yeah, cuz then six weeks apart,

it's like perfect for them. I just I look man, the three

three thing makes the most sense to me.

You have to move a lot of things for that to.

Happen. Yeah, we all pretend the Travers

got to. Move.

We all pretend like this doesn't move a bunch of bleep it does.

The three and three makes the most sense to me.

It's not even close. Yeah.

But I think you're just, I think you're just going to get the

same results. I think it doesn't matter at

this. Point.

Yeah. And that's the part that that's

the part that sucks is you know that.

It it almost, the trainers have almost told us that they are so

invested in that month off that no matter what you do with the

Preakness, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

So you may as well not move it. It actually may as well not move

it, No, because honestly, if you make these six weeks spark,

dude, or 4 weeks spark. So I'm just gonna skip the

Preakness. Get ready.

Don't stop playing the two weeks, man.

Somebody is gonna do it. Stop playing the.

Two weeks back to what I was saying earlier about the there

are not three more important races than this.

So I just never like the wording of we're worrying about

prolonging his career having a full year.

This is the most important part would justify be considered the

horse that he is if he didn't win the Triple Crown.

Like it sucked. It sucked that he didn't race

after the Triple Crown like that sucked that we never got to see

him come back, but we got to see him win the Triple Crown and

he's the horse that he is because of it.

He's in the Hall of Fame because he won those three races.

And so there's not if re races more important, there's no race

more important than these three races for a horse to run and

especially, you know, for the three-year olds at this time of

year. And so I just yeah, I and it's

not just it's not just golden tempo skipping.

It's the fact that we only have Ocelli and Robusta coming back

from the Derby, that none of these other top horses from the

Derby are coming back in it. So it's not just a golden sense

thing or golden sense golden tempo thing.

It's not a golden sense. It's not a golden sense thing.

He. He.

He came back and ran in the Preakness.

It's not a golden tempo thing, it's not a sovereignty thing.

We got lucky last year that journalism came in and he did

the thing and then we got we're lucky that Ocelli's coming back

and doing the thing as well as Robusta and hopefully.

What if Ocelli's the journalism in this year?

What if he wins the Preakness? What if he wins the Preakness

and just? Rolls into Saratoga.

Like, let's get, let's get after this.

That's the no. Because right now we're already

billing, we're already billing the Belmont.

No one, by the way, no one looks ahead to the next season more

than Naira. Like they're about to close

Aqueduct. They're selling tickets to

Belmont like no one looks ahead more than naira.

And so they talk about we're. Going to get Sovereignty versus

Forever Young on opening day at Belmont Park.

I'd be selling that too. Well, they talk, but they sell

Saratoga starting in like January.

We get it. You're going to Saratoga.

We get it. But no, but the just I'm telling

you, they're already billing the Belmont is a, is a, is a head to

head of Renegade and and Golden Tempo.

Yeah, already doing it. Yeah, I mean, it is.

Get it done wit get it done. I need other headlines here.

I don't need this. Just we know what we're talking

about 5 weeks before. I don't need that.

No. Get it done.

Get it done. You know what I didn't.

You know, I didn't think I was going to throw it down like

that. Get it done wit back, man.

Be back now. I need it.

I didn't know I needed. It well good thing we talked to

wit. Well, I talked to Whit.

It was Mother's Day. I I I live with a mother.

Yes, yeah, you're doing the important thing here.

Here's Whit and I just hanging out on Mother's Day in his bar

and talking about horses. So.

Your your mom would actually probably approve of that, Yes.

Yeah. Right, I hung out with her all

Derby week, so. Good stuff.

All right, well, here's Sean. They said Doug yesterday, so

Sunday morning in the barn. What is his barn number?

Top of my head, I know exactly where it is.

I don't know what the number is. I don't look at the numbers

anymore. I just know who's where.

I like where he is now, it's a good spot.

He was there a couple years ago, then they moved him last year.

He was right across, right across from Brad, and then he's

back over there. Yeah, it's good.

A little shifting a bar. Maybe now that he's been the

Derby three years in a row, he'll get.

To keep the same barn, yeah. We'll see how that.

Works all right? Well, here's Whit Beckman with a

guy named Sean Collins. Continuing on with Blood Horse

Monday, I'm happy to be joined by trainer Wit Beckman, who had

Ocelli run third in the Kentucky Derby just a week ago and is

about to run in the Preakness Stakes this upcoming weekend.

Wit, thanks for joining the show.

We finally have you on. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Excited to be here waiting on my sweatshirt.

I know I still owe you that. I think there was one time.

I. We almost had the sweatshirt

ready for you and Louie had it at his house and then I forgot

to grab it at his house and then you ended up leaving for the

winter. So I don't know where the

sweatshirt is now though. Well, Louie lies pretty close to

me so he could drop it off anytime, yes.

Well, we'll get you that Blood Horse Blood Day sweatshirt here,

just like you're hoping Licelli's gonna get you a

Preakness victory this weekend. Let's just start off with all

the simple stuff. How is he doing coming out of

the Kentucky Derby? And what led to the decision to

run him in the Preakness? He came out of that race really,

really well. Like, you know, we'll run horses

and races that are that tough and he usually takes some, you

know, week or two to get over it.

But he didn't look like it affected him at all.

I mean, his appetite's been great, energy level, you know,

just almost probably more than it was before.

I think you just got a taste of the distance he likes and was

able to go out and showcase what he's made of.

Well, he ran such a big race there in the Kentucky Derby.

Take us back to the middle of the stretch run.

I know when I talked to you right after the race, you said

for a moment everything went silent there as he thought maybe

you were going to you were going to have the Derby win.

They're just what was that experience like in that moment?

Little surreal, you know, you going in with a maid and

obviously he had a lot to prove and a lot to overcome.

And when he kind of started passing horses on the turn, you

know, came a little wide, but still he was moving very, very

well. And as he started to get closer

and closer, you know, everything kind of just really, really

quieted down for me. It wasn't like I started

screaming and cheering. It went the opposite way.

So yeah, there was just that moment of hope, Like, wow, this

horse could actually win this race, You know, the very end.

Obviously, reality kind of hit me back in the face.

But yeah, for that brief moment, it was everything you dream

about. And I know you've been around

some top horses and Derby winning horses before when you

worked like with Todd, I think Super Saver, I think you worked.

With, yeah, a little bit of saver, yeah.

Was this moment though? Was there anything that could

compare to what that couple seconds there felt like to you?

Anything else that you've experienced in race?

No, no, I think that was about the pinnacle of it, to make the

lead in Kentucky Derby. It's the race I dreamed about,

only dream about. It's the only race, you know,

that, like I said, that I before it was all over that I want to

win. And, you know, to get that close

was, you know, just huge, huge, just accomplishment for there.

And, you know, obviously still finishing third.

I'm super proud of him. You know, my entire staff, the

owners, everybody kind of stuck with us because it was a lot of

bumps down the road with this horse.

You know, it never looked obvious that we had a horse that

was going to be able to, you know, compete at that level

through some of his earlier starts.

But everybody had faith. I knew I was confident it all

came together. And you just tapped on your

phone right there. You still have the Derby trophy

on there, as you showed us on the Blood Horse at the Derby

show when you guys got in. Are you going to change that to

the Woodlawn Vase here next week or you going to?

No, it's going to stay on that until I have that in my hands.

That it'll switch to you holding that maybe?

Yeah, exactly right. Well, talk about that dream

before we move on to the let's talk about that dream to win the

Derby. You're a local here in

Louisville, so just how much has that really kind of guided your

life essentially wanting to be in that Kentucky Derby winner's

circle? Well, I think in so far as my

goals for, you know, as a trainer for sure, I think it's

one of those races that you see as a kid and kind of gives you

the, you know, the grandchildren kind of the everything that

surrounds the Derby. It's a huge deal here in

Kentucky. And we used to get off school

for Oaks. There was no reason to give this

office of those Oaks Day. It's no holiday, you know.

Yeah. So traffic essentially.

Yeah. It was one of those things that

just, you know, so everything about a Derby weekend, happy

Derby, there's just there's, you know, like any other, you know,

city that has a big attraction that's ours.

So just growing up and seeing how it affects the culture and

how everybody just really responds to it.

I was no different. And then, you know, kind of

getting into a position to work for some of the top trainers in

the world and be a part of it as an assistant.

And just like, say it was Super Saver or, you know, being around

like the years we had five horses or, you know, it's just

one of those things you get a taste for it and you just really

realize it's it's more than just a horse race.

And. Yeah, just I'm living my dream

now. I've had horses in the last

three years, you know, for a young trainer, that's, you know,

it's, it's not easy. I mean, you know, there's only

twenty horses out of a huge crop of three-year olds.

Get there. And we've been, you know,

blessed to have these, you know, horses that are capable of

making it to the gate. And hopefully we can continue on

that trajectory. Yeah, you 2021 was when you

finally went off on your own. 21 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So as you mentioned, you've had horses in the Derby now three

years in a row, Honor Marie, Flying Mohawk and now Ocelli.

You ran second in the Kentucky Oaks last year at Drexel Hill.

You also had Simply Joking in there.

You had an icon entered in the Oaks this year.

She had to scratch. But just what does it mean to

you? You know, from a business

perspective, what does it mean having horses in these big races

on the big stage multiple years in a row like this and then also

taking a $12,000 horse and almost winning the Kentucky

Derby? Just what does that do for you?

Yeah. I think from, you know,

obviously public relations and marketing, you can't really do

anything better than that. You can go out and tell

everybody, you know, we're this stable, we can do this, we can

do that. But when you show people and

when you show, you know, especially owners and, you know,

people that are looking to place their horses, that we can

consistently do this. I mean, it's definitely helped,

you know, with our existing owners and kind of helping them,

you know, or getting them more motivation to buy into these

three-year old Colts. Like I said, the price doesn't

really matter. I think all three runners we've

put in there combined in the three years cost 1/5 of the

average price of 1 Kentucky to be winner.

So it's not a matter of, you know, purchase price or pedigree

or any of these things. It's just about the individual

and, you know, kind of being able to recognize at a certain

point that you have something capable and said.

Like, one thing I learned from Todd Chad is managing these

horses correctly. You know, sometimes maybe on the

outside it doesn't look like everything's going right.

But, you know, the, the main focus for me is development and

just trying to get him to respond on that day, you know,

and I say sometimes it goes perfectly and sometimes blows up

in your face. And Mohawk had a tough strip.

He didn't look as good as he looked at us going into the

race. But that's part of it, You know,

at least you're we're, we were there.

We walked over. And you know, I know Kyle Zoran

called me or told me the other day when we were talking Kyle

Zorn with Legion Bloodstock that you kind of called him, called

the team around November when it came to Ocelli and said I think

that this might be a Derby horse that we got right here.

What are the identifying factors in these horses now that you've

seen a couple of them first hand?

What are the identifying factors early on that leads you to think

this could be a horse that's going to run in the Derby?

With him and I guess Anna Marie, I think a lot of it that you

know, that there's a mental aspect that you identify at

first just a horse that goes out and you know, completely

committed to training mind on business, almost nice and

mechanized. But they go out, they train,

they come back, they settle. You don't get a lot of quirks.

I mean, I haven't had to deal with a lot, you know, around the

barn where they're, you know, taken away from, you know what

they can do on the track. This horse he when he first came

in established a fast horse. His first three ace work was

like 34 flat and you know, for a big you know, kind of scopey

horse that had a real solid two term pedigree for a horse to

show that kind of brilliance and speed, you kind of know that OK,

at least we have something where gears are there.

He is auction eligible, but I made the decision to run him in

a maiden special weight first time out because I thought he

belonged against better horses. I must say in the maiden

auctions are worse, but you know, typically running in a

stronger fields, maiden specials.

So we ran him in a pretty salty race and he finished a good

third, that kind of third. That gives you the hope that

once those distances get a little further that he's going

to, you know, come running. And you know, he obviously as we

kind of got him into December and we had some troubled trips

in some of our maiden races, but everything was just a mark of

improvement somewhere for me. Everything I saw, everything he

did, we were figuring more out about the horse.

You know, he was gaining fitness and just kind of putting himself

in a position where when it got time late and, you know, like to

the April May where you need to be, you know, kind of your

fittest best and, you know, most well adapted.

That's when he really. Yeah, we're just kind of

building towards that. What was the weight like as you

were on the outside looking in? Because I remember, I think I

may have mentioned this on the Blood Horse at the Derby show,

but I talked to you when he was 33rd on the Pointless and I

asked if you were going to run if you made it in.

You said it's the Pope Catholic. And so you had confidence that

if he was going to run well if he made it in.

But you guys didn't make it in until I think was it the day

before? Thursday scratch deadline.

So just what was that weight like with him?

I mean, it was a lot less pressure than the last couple

years where we knew we were in and like, you know, you kind of

figure at that point you're sitting on this edge where you

know, you want things to go well, but you're looking at

everything, you know, I think a little bit closer with him, it

was kind of, we're just training towards it.

If we got in, great. If we didn't, there's other

options. I think it was a little less

stressful on one hand, but a little more stressful in the

other hand because you don't want to see other people have to

scratch out that race. You don't want to wish that on

anybody. It's a terrible feeling, you

know, to be right at the cusp of something great and then, you

know, have to have to come out. So we were excited to get in.

I was super happy. I mean, obviously, you know,

said somebody had to come out, but we were just sitting there

waiting. So we can't fault him for that.

But yeah, it was, I think, and I guess just having the experience

with the whole week and just everything involved, it was a

much less nerve wracking than my first.

Year for sure. So you're going to be

volunteering to be on the AE list going forward?

No, I take the stress. I'd rather be in.

I'd rather go in. Yeah, with knowing exactly at

the end of April or March, whenever we're qualified that

we're good and that would be better.

Now in the Derby he became the first maiden since at least 1937

to hit the board. That's as far back as Churchill

has complete records of all all the runners.

Now we know that a maiden won the Kentucky Derby 1933 in

Brokers Tip, so possibly the first maiden hit the board since

1933. Does that stat mean anything to

you at all, or? No, I think some of the I mean,

those stats are cool, but like I said, it doesn't really do it

for me in terms of I mean, I know he was a nice horse and

maiden or not, like it was just a matter of, you know, say he

didn't cross the line first in a regulated race, but.

We'll get to that in a. Moment yeah.

So he's, it's one of those things I just, I think when you,

you know, I, I look at guys like, you know, like say, like

Steve Asheson, who ran the horse publisher, like he was a maiden

when he ran. And you know, when these horses

are consistently running, well, they're not overmatched.

They're moving forward in the races.

They're still making earning money.

They're still bringing home checks for the owners.

Like, I don't look at those poor management per SE.

Like, it's one thing if you're running a horse over his head,

over his head, over his head, but at no point did we get the

indication that he was in too deep a water.

Well, what the point system now? If you get the points, even if

you're a maid and if you get the points and maybe you can say.

You're one of the top. Three years old.

Exactly right. Exactly right.

Well, you mentioned there that he hasn't won a regulated race

yet. He was part of the Aiken Trials

as a 2 year old down in South Carolina.

Just just kind of some prep races essentially for kind of

two year olds that are training kind of get them to learn

things. So nothing official or anything

like that, but what was that like, you know, getting a horse

from there? I know you had Honey Dutch run

second. Yeah, too.

Who's just ran third in the American turf for you this

weekend? That seems to be a pretty good

spot to get your two year old started, huh?

Yeah, Travis Dirt, you know, has a training center there in South

Carolina. It's always part of the culture

down there. When I worked for Todd, you

know, Dogwood used to send us a lot of horses and they'd send

them in say this horse won the Aiken Trials and it was always,

you know, some, you know, it was, it was a good thing.

You know, they usually meant they were pretty forward early,

kind of had things figured out and we'd get some good horses

that came out of there, ran in those races.

You don't hear about it as much anymore.

I don't know if it's just not as big of a thing, but you know,

when Travis and Cody, by the, I mean, he was a $12,000 horse and

a lot of times they're looking because, you know, it's, there's

a lot of, you know, we, we looking for where he can't find.

But anyway to win those races down there, you know, it's a

it's a cool thing for them. So you know, when they sent him

in and said he won, it's like, well, better than him of having

lost. Yeah, and then it's taught him

how to put his head in front, even though we haven't seen

that. Yeah, On the race track a

quarter mile. And so he didn't want to do

anything in 1/4 mile. He wants to, you know, bred to

go a mile and a quarter easy. And yeah, he was able to win

going 2 furlongs against a very quick Honey Dutch.

Honey, Dutch has always been a pretty, pretty amped up, quick

little guy. So yeah, I was impressed.

What does it say about him that he's able to?

Do those two. Furlongs that early and be

successful and then Fast forward to May of your 3 year old year

running a very big third and at a mile and 1/4 in the Derby.

Yeah. I think when you're like, you

know, getting horses young and you know, they have these two

term pedigrees, but they have that natural speed where they

can go, you know, the obviously 2 furlongs, but six furlongs and

win a couple races at one turn, it just goes to show that

they're, you know, talent lies far beyond just that mile and a

quarter. You know, I think you've got to

be, you know, you're better 2 year olds that come into the

three-year old year, they will have one races, you know, around

1 turn now every now and again you get one that starts a little

later and, you know, your options get a little bit, you

know, so you can start them at a mile.

But, you know, early on that's kind of what you're limited to.

So it's always a good thing, yeah.

Well, looking forward now to the Preakness, You're 1 of maybe two

horses that are going to come out of the Derby and run in the

Preakness, I know as we're. Recording this other one.

Day robusta I've heard. Is really.

Beyond the on the on the possibilities list, I haven't

really heard much about him, but he was listed at one point as a

possibility. Also.

He was also on the AE list with you guys leading into the Derby.

But when you look at the Triple Crown format, obviously there's

a lot of discussions about that. What did you need to see from

him to be willing to go to the Preakness?

And then why do you think that in the last couple years that

this has kind of become the thing where a lot of Derby

horses are skipping? I don't know the individual

reasons per se. I would say maybe some of it has

to do with the changed locations of all the races where it

doesn't really stack up as a true Triple Crown do.

You think the Belmont being a mile and a quarter plays a large

role in that? I mean.

It's a little more willing to go to that instead of the mile and

a half of the when it's at Belmont Park.

Yeah, I mean that mile and 1/2 is one of the most brutal races

in and especially coming off like the tail end.

So it's like, you know, as far as the motivation for that, the

incentive structure is like you want to, you know, won the Derby

or the the Preakness to go into it or skip the Derby, you know,

taking your shot there or horse to come by the Peter Pan or just

kind of really developed a little later that you know, that

have that mile and a half type pedigree.

So I don't know if Laurel Legacy, I don't know what the

decisions are, but yeah, it seems like nowadays less and

less horses go into these races, like when I was a kid and I'm

sure you say the same thing like every runner from the Preakness

ran in the Derby. You know it wasn't.

It wasn't even a thought like, OK, we're going to the Preakness

next, you know, it's the Triple Crown, it's the Derby belt,

Preakness in Belmont. It's like 1 Series, you know, So

you know, you hear now, oh, we're going to target, you know,

some later or whatever like that.

But you know, for three-year olds, like to me, this is the

target. There's nothing after this.

These are the three biggest. Races in the country, yeah, it's

kind of what we're that's what we've been developing all this

way towards and, you know, hopefully there's, you know,

plenty of opportunity after and we have the horse for it.

But at the same time, like this is the test of champions.

If you have a three-year old that completed it, you know,

it's just as like, you know, horses used to run a lot more

often than they do now. And I think there's a lot of

factors that go into that. But it's not that they can't,

you know, they say he had no problems coming out of that

race. He looked fantastic.

And you know, 12 hours after I was just like, I don't know

about it. I'm going to kind of, you know,

but then as I started to really observe the horse and just kind

of see where his he was, I said it's maybe something to really

think about. And then as I saw the race

unfolding in so far as possible runners and it looked like he

could be quick and said, you know what?

Let's go Louie, my Co host on the show, he says all the time

that journalism last year when Sovereignty skipped the

Preakness and went to the Belmont, journalism, who was

second in the Derby, decided to run in the Preakness, won and

then went back to the Belmont and finished second there.

He likes to say that Journalism helped to save the Triple Crown,

at least at this point. Do you feel any added pressure

being, you know, kind of the leading horse from the Kentucky

Derby coming back in the Preakness to run well?

Anything like that? No, no.

Pressure. I just want for the horse to

really kind of, you know, be able to show people that he is a

legitimate contender on this trail.

And just because he wasn't hasn't broke his maiden, you

know, or the little things like that, he's not something to be

dismissed at 70 to 1, you know? You know, I wish there was more

horses going, but I don't think it's added pressure.

I just think it's a matter of like, I don't know, I just, I

really appreciate the tradition and I can really be, you know,

if I'm a kind of a purist with that thing, I think it should be

an extremely difficult series. I don't think it should be

something that's easy or we make easier on these horses.

So I just feel like, you know, if you run in the Derby, you

know, like the Preakness should always be under consideration

if, you know, you're not going to do any wrong by your horse.

And I don't see us doing any wrong by this horse right now.

How does the IT being at Laurel change?

I don't know if it changes your game plan, if it changes what

type of horses are favored by the track or anything.

How does it being at Laurel change the Preakness this year?

Well, it's a different racetrack, but I mean, Laurel, I

don't know what the configuration is and so I got to

find out. Somebody just tell me they

stopped at the first wire. That's how I've read that.

I don't know how where they start, where they stop at this

point. I know.

I mean, it's a big racetrack. It's a mile and an eighth.

Yeah. I mean, it's a different service

than Pimlico, that's for sure. Obviously very much more

grandstand. There's not going to be a close

amount of people. And that infield scene, yeah,

it's way crazier than the Derby ever was.

So I think it'll be a more laid back environment for one.

Laurel is I haven't been done there, you know, quite a while.

When I worked for Todd, I used to ship down quite a bit and it

was always in the dead of winter.

So being in the spring and you know just how what the weather

is going to be, I'm really not sure how it'll change it, but it

will change it because it's completely different in terms of

venue, surface configuration, everything.

You mentioned earlier that seems like there's going to be some

pace in this race. Is it is he pretty much just

stone cold? We're going to drop out the

back. We're going to make that run at

the end. He.

Didn't a Derby? Yeah, I think we found that it's

the most effective way for him. Like, I think his best race has

come when he has targets and when he can kind of move late.

You know, we've tried a few things to get him a little more

engaged early, but I think we take him out of his natural

rhythm. That to me was his best race by

far last time. And I think that's the first

time. I mean, Tyler just really, you

know, kind of figured out where he fell into it and it was just

letting him travel through that comfortably.

I think a couple other times we were trying to maybe force him

into something that he didn't want to be doing.

I thought he ran very well in the wood, too.

Same thing. He had, you know, was pretty

wide and moved a little early but you know, some of the races

he got a little too keen when I had the blinkers on him or just,

you know, things that he was not comfortable doing early, which I

think took away from him late. Now when you get down to

Maryland, are you a crab cakes guy?

Is there something else you're looking forward to when you're

down there for the week? I mean, I like.

Crab cakes I I don't think I've like, I've never been taken to

the place with the best crab cakes.

I mean, I like. Somebody's got to get on that.

What are we doing? I like like, yeah, blue seafood.

You know, I've, we went to Baltimore for my 8th grade class

trip. So that was like, I think I

remember going to some good places downtown.

But the last I was there in Pimlico last year, but I don't

think I had anything that was, I would say it was like, you know,

remarkably Maryland or anything like that.

But yeah, I'm open to suggestions.

Favorite memory of that eighth grade trip?

Going we went to we went to Baltimore and then we went to a

Phillies game in Philadelphia. It was a non televised game, but

me and my friends, we wrote in ballpoint pen, ESPN, our chests.

We got on the Jumbo Strom, but it was not nationally televised.

Yeah, I think there was probably like 20 people in the stands.

So that it was easy for them to find you guys.

To put you on the jumbo jar, Yeah, it took about two weeks to

get the because coloring on your chest with ballpoint pen will

leave an impression for a while. All right.

Keep that in mind if you ever. Decide to do that.

All right, Wit, well, thank you for taking the time with us here

today. Best of luck with Ocelli in the

Preakness. We hope that he runs a big race

and we'll see if maybe, maybe you do end up switching that

Derby trophy on your phone to the Woodlawn Voss at all.

Yeah, one at a time. Hopefully we'll get them all at

some point. Maybe it's the same horse.

We'll see. All right.

Well, thank you Wit. Thanks, Sean.

All right, thanks to trainer Wit Beckman, We'll get you that

hoodie soon. The though the the stories and

freak angst, of course, alongside from blood horse

bloodhorse.com, the stories of, you know, three times in the

Derby in a row and you know, just only five years out, you

know, on his own at this point, $12,000 horses you point out as

well with Ocelli going for it here.

I wanted to say one thing Frank, to to a commenter I saw online

who suggested they should put Ocelli away.

He's run his best race ever. What?

No, that's not how this works. They should definitely go for it

in the Preakness because guess what?

All but Robusta decided not to go from the best of the 20

horses that we have in the three-year old ranks, Frank.

And so I'm glad they're taking a shot here with Ocelli.

Good day to you. I think at some point a win

would be nice so. He did get that win in the Aiken

trial. He did get that, yeah.

Yeah, Frank, your, your reaction to, I mean, I, you know, we're

having you in ahead of the Preakness here, only two horses

making the trip. Obviously one of those

headlines. I wanted to ask it a little bit

differently. Are we actually talking about

this differently this year? Is there more emphasis on it?

I think with the three Derby winners skipping and skipping

the Preakness in the past five years, I think it's getting to

the point that a change is going to come in.

In some regard. You have Maryland shifting to

state control. You know that this is the last

Preakness that the previous Maryland Jockey Club under First

Racing will put on, and the Maryland Jockey Club will now

shift to a state entity. So I think with that change,

it's kind of a likely time to to really sit down and figure out

the the future of this series 'cause I mean, it's just not as

compelling when the Derby winner doesn't go to the Preakness.

Well, where do you kind of stand on if they did move it?

Well, first of all, should they move it?

And if they did, where? What would be the time frame

that you think would work best? I mean, I, I just feel like, you

know, you, you look at a sport like baseball that has been

around for a long time and they made a bunch of changes two

years ago and it's a much more compelling sport.

It's much more for our time. And then on the other hand, you

had you had nothing has to be in place forever.

You know, you again, looking at baseball, the computer guys sat

down, sat down and figured out where all the balls are going to

get hit and they start putting position players in the outfield

and and baseball addressed that when it went too far.

So, you know, you make some changes and you can change again

if you have to, but I, I just don't think it's, I don't think

a 22 week turn around is just in most train.

Most trainers just don't want to do that with their top horses

anymore. I mean, oddly enough, we had a

MarketWatch a few years ago that said horses actually do that is

actually a good time to race them again.

There's a little peek at 2 weeks and then there's a little peek

further out, I think at 5I. I don't recall that as well, but

I remember to want it too because I I do feel like you see

it quite a few times, but the reality is trainers aren't

comfortable doing that. I thought for some time and I

know Naira's not necessarily on board with this at this point,

but I think it makes a certain amount of sense to have the

first Saturday in May Derby Saturday around Memorial Day is

the Preakness and the Saturday around July 4th is the Belmont.

I think that tying them to those holidays kind of people will

start associating those races with with those holidays

Saturdays. So I think that could be a good

idea. I don't, I don't think

everyone's on board with that. I understand Naira's position

too on potentially affecting some of their Saratoga 3 year

old races. So that would be I, I think that

that has some that way you're stretching it out, but you're

not. I don't.

I think it helps keep to keep public interest by tying

yourself to those holidays so people can start associating one

with the other. So that that's what I kind of

like about that plan. I think probably more likely as

we just see the Preakness go to three weeks and then the Belmont

be either at 3 or 4 weeks is probably the first step.

I like the I like the holiday talk as like just recognizing

that the first Saturday in May is a holiday at this.

Point you you know, 1 11 interesting thing that Bobby

Hope brought up in in one of his stories on the timing of the

races, which which he has in the the current blood horse magazine

is and and I'm not tying this to any specific horse, but the two

week turn around, you're affected by medication rules.

I mean, you're already kind of past the deadline and then

you're going to face and that doesn't affect you race day, but

it might affect how much you get out on the track just to jaw

gallop and or work. And the horses don't always work

between Derby and Preakness, but but it can affect some of those

plans too. So I think if you just go to

three that that would at least address that, which would be

helpful. Yeah, Bob's.

Bob's been pretty vocal about that.

And Bobby? Caught references today not.

Enough. Not enough.

Yeah, no, that's right. But yeah, now it's, it's an

interesting debate. I'm sure that will carry on

until someone does something and then past that point, Yeah.

And I'm sure we'll debate it once they make the date is

there. I thought once.

I thought once a horse won the Triple Crown, a pharaoh did it.

We. Yeah.

And it was like, OK. Somebody proved it.

We don't have to talk about it anymore.

Yeah. It is so odd that we've had, you

know, in, in relatively recent years, we've had two Triple

Crown winners and now we're hitting this era when where

nobody wants to even try it. So it, it's so strange you, you

would have thought we'd have this debate after the long, the

long drought. And we kind of had the debate,

but I don't think it was super serious.

The drought's up to 8 years now. We're starting to.

We're heading to that 37 year record.

We're getting closer. You know, Frank, whatever I hear

these debates, I always and you mentioned baseball.

I think of baseball and the fact that it took a Miguel Cabrera to

win the Triple Crown in the American League.

I mean, it takes exceptional, exceptional people to do that.

Are we past a point though, with this that I mean, you know, you

mentioned like simple things like medication rules, right?

And something as simple as that, just a week back for the

Preakness. Are we just at that kind of

breaking point? I mean, I think we are, you

know, so even if a horse were to sweep a triple, the traditional

Triple Crown as it's been in the last 100 years or so, if you

have nine of the other ones, Derby winners just skipping it,

I, I don't think it's a very compelling series.

So at some point you have to adjust to what horsemen are

doing. And I just want to throw in

there the all the people who will say, because I'm someone

who doesn't want to move the Triple Crown, but if they do

move the Triple Crown, I don't want to hear any of this.

He didn't win the real Triple Crown talk afterward.

The first eight Triple Crown winners all had different

schedules. It was not the, you know, Sir

Barton had like, what, four days in between the Derby and the

Preakness like. I think the Triple Crown would

be hard to hard to win if you had the first race in January,

the 2nd in June and the third in November.

It's just, it's three really tough races.

I mean that the time component, I don't think has to be tied to

it. I don't know.

I mean, what's, you know, I, I get it, like the time component

it does. It's probably going to force you

to win a race when you're not at your best.

I I think if it's three and four or three and three, that that's

still going to be part of the equation.

I'm interested then are you more, do you hold on more to say

the distance of the Belmont as as that more than the spacing

between the races, that kind of thing, Frank?

Oh, I don't think I would touch the distances.

They're classic distances. Yeah, I agree.

I yeah, that I worry about with the Belmont, Yeah.

But I really the race dates are the thing and and Sean, I I

personally think the one turn miles the most taxing race in in

US racing. Not, I mean, I know we've built

up this legend about the mile and a half and how difficult it

is. Yes, it's difficult because

you're taking on great horses, but if you watch the horses,

most of them are capable of galloping for quite a distance

and then firing at the end. I, I don't know that it's any

more taxing than I think the one turn miles are probably the

toughest races just on a horse because they're, we're going

full bore for much of that race. But the testing thing about the

mile and a half a lot of times for our modern horses is to not

run off early because they're so used to shorter distances.

So it's testing and that way. And if you go too soon, you're

going to burn yourself up. But if you're a smart horse

that's capable of settling into that gallop and then going well

at the end, I mean, that's the test of a mile and a half race.

I don't think it's grueling or beyond the, you know, the

abilities of a horse. We wouldn't do that.

Well, the Triple Crown's going to look different here in the

second leg with the Preakness being at Laurel instead of

Pimlico this year. Frank, how do you think that

would impact the race at all, the fact that it's at a

different track this year? You know, it's funny.

I so I, I handicap Laurel on occasion, by no means every day

at a meet or anything like that, but but I do see, I feel like

more horses can close there and then Pimlico it with modern

racing, it's sometimes difficult to say because you get there's

so many races that are like 6 or seven horses where a closer

don't have much chance anyway because they're not going to get

the pace. But in a 14 horse race, I think,

and that's that track. I think you're capable of

closing. I I think that about Laurel

relative to Pimlico, just just more so obviously closers can

win at both, but just as a, you know, as on average, I think a

few more win at Laurel. So I think that's intriguing.

The horses won't face the tout the challenge of a massive crowd

if they if they're bothered by a whole lot of cheering and and

people around them that you know, they they said they were

going to sell 4800 tickets, so. The horses will not have to deal

with that. 4800 and I think many of those people will be behind

glass frankly so I mean the horse won't even hear 4800

people you know so for a horse like great white or someone like

that you know with a with the you know the rush of a crowd

that feeling at least certainly not going to have that come

Saturday. The other thing about Laurel

that's interesting is the track layout is the same distance as

say Saratoga or Ellis or something like that at a mile

and an eighth Frank. And so a little bit of a, a, a

finish line differential there as well at Laurel.

But because of that bigger track than they have at the Preakness,

I agree with you. It'll allow closers to to make

moves and, you know, say on the backstretch, that kind of thing

as well. Yeah.

And I think it'll be kind of a fair start Preakness that kind

of a Pimlico to kind of start just coming out of the turn,

which is not a big deal. But I think there'll be more in

the straight here. There are two finish lines at

Laurel, but the the finish line that they rarely use will the

finish line that they regularly use will be the Preakness finish

line. So that shouldn't create any

issues that the longer finish line that they sometimes uses

for the one turn mile races and their turf sprints.

Because a lot of people are going to hear it being referred

to as the first finish line, but that is the usual thing.

Yeah, at most tracks, the first, yeah.

Yeah, at most tracks, the first finish line is the one that's

rarely used. In this case, the first finish

line is the one that's commonly used.

So that shouldn't trip anybody up.

Well, even if it does, you would still be going because you you

think it's the next finish line. Although although maybe you

waited too late to start. Hello, Frank.

We haven't talked to you since Golden Tempo's win in the Derby.

I wanted to ask you about Cherie Devoe's media tour and that kind

of thing. And you know, we mentioned

earlier in the episode seeing the big crowd for Mother's Day

at at at at Monmouth, for example.

Do you, do you set some momentum around Cherie Devoe?

And she seems like a character that people really like.

I mean, wasn't she great for racing?

I mean, this is a person who very much is a professional

trainer and really wants to focus on her horses.

But when put into that spotlight, she was willing to do

it and really, really shined, I thought, really told her story,

told a horse's story, told a racing story.

So yeah, it's it's always great because the Derby winner just

creates an instant star in our sport every year.

And everybody tied to that horse on some levels, an instant star

to. So to see her embrace that and

do so well with it, that that was terrific.

Well, Frank, looking ahead toward the future of the

Preakness, we have the news came out before the Derby that

Churchill Downs is about the intellectual property for the

Preakness and we'll be hopefully back at Pimlico next year.

Just what are your thoughts on what the Preakness will look

like going forward and how this Churchill?

Downs thing. Will impact it.

I mean, it was definitely one of the more confusing transactions,

no doubt about it. I think the easiest way to put

it is when the as we talked about the Maryland Jockey Club

is shifting the state, state and to the next year and 1st Racing

stayed in. They were going to continue to

stay in under this right, you know, under, under this

agreement with the Preakness. So they had this intellectual

property for the Preakness and the Black Eyed Susan.

And really what it amounts to is that the new Maryland Jockey

Club was going to pay them a certain amount of money each

year, looks like about 5 million a year.

And now instead of paying First Race, First Racing sold that.

That's what First Racing sold the Churchill Downs

Incorporated. So CDI has that.

So now I'm paying instead of paying First Racing.

They'll pay CDI very much credit to Mid-Atlantic Thoroughbred.

They had a nice nugget in their story that the state actually

does have some time to match that offer.

They could potentially match that and take that over at looks

like about mid June, late little, maybe toward late June

is the deadline for that. So we'll see if there's any

interest in doing that. It's certainly interesting that

CDI wants to get their foot in the door there.

At this point, it's very much a foot in the door that they can't

move the Preakness. They can't move the Preakness

date. That's all the decision of the

new Maryland Jockey Club. But it does give CDIA, you know,

a foot and a door and they, they've offered their help.

You know, I obviously fans of Arlington Park have big concerns

about CDI. We, we saw what happened there,

which looked like a successful track to me, but it wasn't

successful enough and CDI shut it down.

I, I think what's a little bit different here is Churchill

Downs Incorporated. For the most part, the new

tracks where they ventured into, they usually have some added

gaming that they think can make a big success, particularly

their HHR, which has been such a runaway success in Kentucky and

now Virginia for CDI. So it's interesting, you know,

Maryland has there's slot machines that are away from the

tracks that benefit the tracks in some way, but it's not a huge

number and it's it wouldn't usually be enough to get catch

CDI's attention. So, so I do think, I do think

their concern is largely to Triple Crown and they would like

to have some voice in that. They very much understand that

the for to have a successful Derby, you want to have protect

the front end, which is all those prep races the points

raises now as people commonly call them.

And you want to protect the back end, which is the Triple Crown.

They they realize the value of the Derby goes down if if both

of those things are not healthy. So it puts them in position, you

know what, once you're in there too, you know, maybe maybe they

want to go bigger, you know, maybe they want to buy out the

Maryland Jockey Club at some point.

I mean, what once you're in there, you know, that's so we'll

see. But at this point, at this

point, it's just a foot in the door and and they basically get

a payment each year. I thought on the, on the

earnings call for Churchill Downs, Bill Carstanch and their

president being very clear in that call, I thought, you know,

like what you said early in the episode, prickness is the second

most important race in the United States according to CDI,

right? They needed to matter, Frank,

because you know, the Derby winner being relevant after the

Derby is good for Churchill Downs, right?

It just is. And so I it was very clear that

they, they believe that as well. Yeah, it's such it's, you know,

it's their most important week of the year as a company and

it's very fair to say that they want a healthy prep race season

and a healthy Triple Crown all. Right.

Well, he's Frank. Ganks.

You find himabloodhorse.com for all the good things he's working

on. What else should we be looking

for, Frank? Oh, wow, that I mean that sort

of the current, the current issue has a lot of the things

that we've talked about the, you know, Preakness at Laurel and

Bobby Hope kind of looking at the timing of the races.

So it's a really good issue for sure at Blood Horse.

Now you, it's really, you can go in now that the virtual platform

is so good. You can go in if you subscribe

today, you can read that current issue online and it and the

platform's really good. You can have it look like a

magazine if you want. You can just select the story

and make it look more like a traditional online site where

you can really just focus on the reading and and then you'll

start getting the print issues if you like them.

If you want just the virtual issues, you can save a little

money and do it that way. But the nice thing is you can go

on there today and read it today that the current issue and then

your subscription starts. There you go.

All right, bloodhorse.com for all that magazine tab at the top

of the homepage or hit the QR code if you are watching on

YouTube or on Spotify. Appreciate all of you hanging

out with us here on Blood Horse Monday, including Frank Hanks.

Thanks, Frank. Thanks guys.

There you. Go Frank Hanks with us

bloodhorse.com for all the good things he is working on over

there. Very level headed conversation

about the Triple Crown. I don't like that.

No, I'm just kidding. Are we supposed to start

beating? Yeah, elbowing Shawn over

spacing of races, Yeah, right. But no, it's fascinating and I

appreciated what something that I do worry about is the the the

12 furlong Belmont being the next thing that trainers come

back and say, hey, we don't want to do that anymore.

I think I think the thing that helps that not changing, cuz I'm

sure there's a lot of people out there who are thinking the mile

and a quarter Belmont might stay.

I think the thing that really helps is that a mile and 1/4 at

Belmont Park does not break in front of the grandstand, right?

And so I think in these major races, you need the starting

gate to be in front of the grandstand.

It just needs to happen. That's one that's one of my

biggest things that I think gets ignored a lot in horse racing

that I think would really help to encourage more people to go

to the races as running more two turn races because people love

getting up close to the starting gate.

The amount of times you're I'll use Churchill as an example just

because I'm there so much and. Well that the 16th course they

use all the time well. You know, I don't want to single

out Churchill here as being like the only because this happens at

every track. But at Churchill you can hear

this more because you have a lot of people.

I always say Churchill is kind of the number one tourist track.

You have people that pop in, you know, they're on a drive, they

see a sign for Churchill Downs, they find out there's racing,

they stop in for two races and then they keep going because

it's Churchill Downs. So you have a lot of people who

don't pay a lot of attention to horse racing year round.

And when the horses are starting on the backside, the amount of

times I sit there and hear people go, where are they?

Where's the starting gate? And it's not as compelling as

like when you have the tracks where the starting gate's right

in front of the grandstand and everybody's rushing.

There's more people at the start than there are at the finish

when at the apron because everybody wants to be up close

to that starting gate when they pop out of there.

So I do think that that's one of the, that's one of the things, a

simple fix for getting more people to the track, running

more two turn races and hopefully getting more what if.

It's that easy. What if it's just that?

Easy. People want to be up close.

What if it's just? That if they only Sean Collins

is. Great.

Only get them for five seconds as they're coming down the

stretch and you got to get them up close to the starting game

too. So I do think for, you know,

obviously the Derby and the Preakness have the big long down

the stretch and the Belmont has the last couple years, the

Belmont being a mile and a half, the Belmont is a little closer

to turn. But everybody at the end of the

Grand stand and you get to see the horses warm bring up in

front of you and go into the gate, you get more horse

interaction when the when the gate's there.

So I think that helps. OK, I think that helps.

OK. Hopefully I don't hate this the

switch from a mile, I hate this them not switching back to this

quarter. I think a race like the Belmont,

you need the gate to be in front of the crowd.

I I saw a lot of the comments, especially 2020 when they ran

the mile in an eighth. Yeah, yeah.

Like see. No, no.

Crowd run it on the first turn, run it around 1 turn, you know.

But I I agree with you. I don't think we'll go back to

that. And I think Frank's take on

that, by the way, is the proper one, which is you wear yourself

out in that dirt mile, for example.

Yeah, because it is. It's a two turn Sprint, man.

Exactly. It really is a two turn Sprint.

So I'm with you. I-12 Furlogs if you're running

out in 112 or whatever, like I think you could be OK.

Yeah, you're open along until you get to the stretch.

And then you go, it's every race, man.

I mean, like if you watch a mile, if you watch the United

Nations mile 3A's or whatever, like that's, that's you're open,

it's OK, you're open a little bit, then you're going it's, it

is what it is. But no, I largely agree with all

of that, Luke, looking ahead to the Preakness takes, by the way,

if you're in Baltimore, you mentioned, you know, only about

4800 people are going to get into this thing.

Yes, Frank Mitchell, excuse me. And so look in Louisville, I, I

put on a seminar every year and blood horses picked that up and

did with our friend Barry Spears this year.

And we do that for free because I want people to just come out

and hang out. Part of it is the cost of Derby.

It's it's not easy to go to if you're just a, you know,

frankly, if I didn't have a pass, I wouldn't go because it

costs money and I have kids, right?

That's all these kinds of things.

Well, in Baltimore, race isn't there this year.

Friday night, 730 Jimmy Seafood. Come on upstairs, come find us.

We'll take care of the early part of the evening.

Cost you nothing to be there. Just come on and hang out with

me. Barry will be there.

Scott Wyckoff from WBAL. So if you are unable to attend

the Preakness like so many people this year are unable

coming out with us on Friday night, we'd love to see you

there. Second floor in Jimmy Seafood,

but the field itself. Yes.

Here's what's fascinating about horse racing is all the things

we've said so far are absolutely true as far as the general

public is concerned and what we want to have in these Triple

Crown races. But if you bet on these things,

my God, this race. I my God, we, we have had.

This is one of the things that makes the Triple Crown

conversation a little different this year is in the last couple

years when the Derby winner is not gone good, it seems like

we've been struggling to pull anyone to participate in the

race. Not just Derby horses, but

anyone this year, I mean, even before the Derby this year

already looked like we were going to be loaded.

And we're recording this before they draw the post positions

later today before official entries.

From what we know at this point, we are at 13 horses that are

going to be in this race. It was 14 when we woke up this

morning. Silent Tactic.

As we were in the middle of recording the show, it was

reported that Silent Tactic is going to skip the Preakness

Smart. Cassie's still not 100% certain

about that bruised foot that we talked to him about back when he

scratched from the Kentucky Derby.

And so he will not be part of the race it seems like here.

But that still leaves us with 13 horses.

Maybe somebody sees that sees that because I know there were a

couple of horses that were on the fence and they thought they

were going to get on the AE list.

And so they may be pointed away. Maybe now one of them jumps back

in last second, but it's looking like a 13 horse field.

And I mean this, this thing is wide open.

You got pace horses, you got closers.

It's going to be an interesting race to try to handicap and try

to figure things out. Lots of different storylines as

well. Ocelli makes the trip after the

3rd place finish. Still a maiden of course.

Best finish is probably the Derby, right?

Yeah. Almost certainly and the thing

that I I've had a so I'm going to have a feature coming up on

Ocelli this week for the Preakness on bloodhorse.com and

so. That's why I just mentioned it

like that, so that Sean could pop his own work keep.

Going check it out online, but so the tease, but so I've been

talking to the connections quite a bit.

Obviously we just had wit on I've been talking with the

ownership and the bloodstock team as well.

And so the thing that they're pointing to is all of his races

recently they use third graph numbers.

Yes, all their races recently have seen him progressing race

by race. So he had a nine in the one race

up to A7 up to A5. He runs A2 in the Derby.

Golden Tempo ran a three in the Derby.

The lower the number, the better on the third graph.

So he actually came out with a better third graph number than

Golden Tempo did from the Kentucky Derby.

So now the question will be did he hit the peak right or?

Can he do it again in 2? Weeks or is he continuing to

progress? A lot of people are gonna point

at the fact that he's never won a official race in these, but it

is going, I think he's a horse that is on the right path and he

is progressing and he's holding his own against the best horses

in the country. So who cares if you want to race

at this point or not, You're going to get that win

eventually. We saw publisher finally got the

job done, then won three straight races.

He was a maid in the Derby last year, took him a while after the

Derby to break his maiden, but then he went off and won three

straight races, won a stakes race.

And so, you know, I think Ocelli is on that path to where he's

just going to be part of this division, whether he jumps back

into maiden company or not. You heard Witt mentioned during

the interview that he is still eligible for maiden auction,

which for those that don't know a maiden auction is just maiden

special rate, maiden special weight races that are restricted

to horses that sold for a certain price tag at auction.

Usually under. Usually like under 50,000 or

something. So for a $12,000 horse, he's

part of that. And so he usually that would be

perceived to be easier competition, not always, but you

know, you're not going up against the $1,000,000 horses

that were bought at a sale or something like that.

So he's could still, he could run second in the Preakness,

lose by a nose, and he could jump back and made an auction

company and be the biggest one to nine favorite in history.

But so he is to lose, Yeah. That's what he does.

He runs second and third. That's what he does.

But I mean, there was a solid moment at the 16th pole I

thought of. So he won the Kentucky.

Yeah. And that 16th pole as well,

that's my own 3 sixteenths. He was in front.

If he can run back to that, he's been looking good.

When I the way that I've seen him, if he can run back to that,

he's going to have a huge shot in this race.

And the pace looks like it's going to set up for him.

There's enough speed horses in here where he's going to drop

out the back and he's going to come with the run.

Again, as Frank mentioned and has a Jose Ortiz referenced and

we had him on last week talking about Laurel and Pimlico

differences, it does look like that.

There's a little bit more confidence in the deep closers

here at Laurel that maybe you would have a Pimlico, and so I

think that that is a a big plus in Ocelli's corner.

Robust us making the trip. I want to point out something

not that OK, so the first part, of course it's Doug O'Neill in

the barn mantra is why not us? OK, so like like no, but like

that's that goes into this for sure.

You know the owner is of this horse.

Calumet Yeah, that's all you need to say, right?

Two weeks back there, they can do it.

Calumet's OK with it. Yep, just pointing that out.

OK, that I do that horse by the way, we talk about like the the

closing aspect of this race. He did not get the type of trip

at all in the Derby that he wants.

You saw much, much more of what he wants certainly when he

almost won the San Felipe. But in the follow up race in the

San Anita Derby, he does all the work.

But that bobbled start that he had and then they tried to rush

out set him up to absolutely fail in that race.

Interested in him here. I'm not going to be playing him

I don't think. I just like this is a lot.

This is a lot for a horse like this to rally this many

different times. But Cali Mensro the horse back

in two weeks. Yes, they are.

And if you watched the video that I posted on Twitter, when

Robusta found out he was getting in, you heard Doug O'Neill call

Christian Torres to offer him the ride on Robusta.

You heard at the end of it him saying that the strategy was

just going to be go, go, go. And he never got the chance to

go, go, go because he, as you mentioned, a kind of a bobbled

start. He got hit by a couple horses as

they were coming out of the gate to was for he's breaking from

the far outside and post 18. And so he got swung way wide,

never got the trip that he wanted.

And as Frank mentioned earlier, sometimes it seems like that two

weeks back could actually be a peak sometimes.

So if he can get the trip, why not see him pull an Oxbow here?

If there's enough horses thinking they're gonna go to the

lead that some of them decide we're gonna back.

That's an Oxbow. Reference and then he ends up on

the lead and just yeah, just runs the whole thing.

Why can't why can't Robusta be an Oxbow here?

We saw he's capable back in the San Felipe when things go his

way. You're damn right there.

And so yeah, so the fact that the fact that they're running

him back. I haven't had the chance to talk

to Doug after the Derby about him, but the fact that they're

running him back in the Preakness does make it seem like

he's doing well. And so if he's doing well and he

can get into a position to actually favors in this time,

yeah, he's gonna. He could definitely run a whole

lot better in here so. He almost certainly also looks

back at the race, like Frank talked about earlier, where he

didn't put it all out there in the Derby.

Yeah, exactly right. I mean, he's still.

Got probably got something left in the tank.

No doubt about it, yeah. But but the two horses coming

out of the Derby though, we shouldn't also we shouldn't

glaze over the fact that the two horses coming out of the Derby

are the 70 to 1 long shots. So, you know, we can expect them

to take a step forward, but we'll see.

There are some nice horses in here that we're not.

Yeah, I mean, Ocelli's going to have to do it again.

Yeah, horses don't always do it again, right?

Speaking of Frank Ganks, he broke the news that Chip Honcho

was going to be out of the Derby when he was meeting with Steve

Asmussen, second place finisher in the Risen Star.

Of course, part of that, that big finish with Mesquite and in

Golden Tempo. You may have heard of him in the

Lecompt. I've never heard of that horse.

Did he do something big? Chip Honcho though in this spot

becomes very interesting to me because of who this horse was

running with. We have to now upgrade the

Louisiana. I know, after all my after all

my talking crap about the Louisiana road to the Derby.

Now that I've said that, do we have to do that?

Do you upgrade the Louisiana route?

I upgraded for sure. I'm seeing what cold and tempo

did. Do I upgrade chimp poncho?

I don't know if I necessarily do that.

Like Robusta, this is a horse that I think wants to be

forward. His best races have come when

he's been in one of those leading positions.

He broke his maiden on the lead. He ran a very strong second on

the lead and the Risen Star. He was just off the pace in the

his wind in the gun runner. And when he kind of he was, he

looked a little hard to handle going into the backstretch of

the Louisiana Derby. And I think that took a lot of

the fight out of him to where he wasn't more lackluster in the

stretch. But you know, Steve didn't feel

like he was at the right point to right place to run him in the

Derby. Has the two weeks made the

difference? We'll have to find out here.

I talked to Jose about him a couple days ago.

He felt he rode him in the debut win.

Hasn't ridden him since, but he did feel like that he is a horse

that can have more in the tank off of that one mile.

As we mentioned the one turn mile earlier being one of the

most difficult things. He felt like he finished that up

with more energy so. Jose in the mud, too.

So yeah, in the mud. And so Jose feels good about his

chances here to try to continue his personal Triple Crown this

year. But I do question whether or not

he is up to to the level of some of these horses in here or if he

was one of those ones that kind of peaked early on the Derby

trail and now everybody else is kind of caught up to him.

So we'll find. Out Is there a world in which

Jose Ortiz has to make a decision between Golden Tempo

and Chip Hotcho? Yeah, that's funny to me.

And yeah, it's possible. That's funny to me.

We'll see. I hope that happens.

Just for my own purposes, a couple of races on the Preakness

road to the Preakness, if you will, One at Laurel Park.

We'll get to in a second because I think that could be the

storyline of the weekend. But Krupper comes out of the

bath house row and that is a mile and an eighth three-year

old prep at Oaklawn and I was there for.

That it was on. The undercard of the.

Yeah, And this is the Sonic Candy ride and include on the

dam side and with Cropper, the Von Hommel barn.

Smaller barn for sure, but a cool opportunity here.

I love that they're taking it. Yeah.

And by the way, a couple years ago, horse came out of a race

called the El Camino Real Derby named Ron Bauer and won the darn

thing. Yeah.

Why? Why not Cropper?

Exactly. I'm.

I'm being serious, by the way. Why not?

Cropper yeah, I think he's a pretty good horse.

Again, this is another horse who looks like he's going to rather

be close to the pace and so that's why you know, the pace

looks like it's going to be hot whole.

Leg too, yes. And so, but I, I liked his win

quite a bit. He he had to fight for that win

down there. Oaklawn, if he can take another

step forward, I definitely think he could have a shot in this

race. He took a step forward on the

numbers for sure. And so I think that he's going

to be he's kind of the the one that hasn't gotten the attention

because Taj Mahal has taken a lot of the attention from it was

the same day. They were both, you know,

Preakness qualifiers and so Taj Mahal took the more the more

attention being the local Maryland horse winning by the

wider margin. But I don't think Cropper should

be discounted in here. It seems like he's been training

well since then, so. Horses that we thought of as

potential Derby horses. There is a trio of them in this

race. Great White, of course, was a

Derby horse until he wasn't. He saw post 17 and said Nope.

He almost did that. I know I forgot to ask when the

only reason. He lost.

Do you understand the level at which I needed the horse that

broke from the 17 to win just so you had?

Post post one and post 17 ran second and third.

They got close, but they didn't win because they're I.

Just I needed that so badly, Sean Collins.

I needed that deep into my veins.

Just the purposes of talking. There's no Post 17 in the

Preakness, so Ocelli should be a guaranteed winner this weekend

then. Great White back.

I mentioned this on the episode last week if you happen to miss

it. I wanted to credit NBC TV for

showing Great White jogging off because he was okay.

But once that happens, once a horse flips like that.

You're. Done.

The things are done, decisions are made.

You saw the look on Alex Deshard's face.

It was probably the same look that I had because we've gotten

to know John Ennis and I really wanted him to have another

starter. But anyways, he's back here.

Frenetic pace on the front, I think plays super well for him.

I am fascinated by him in this. Race, yeah, a lot of people are

going to look at the fact that he was in the lead of the

Bluegrass and think he's going to be part of the pace.

He's not going to be part of that pace.

If they if he is, then instructions are not being

followed. He is a horse that John Ennis

himself got on him in the breeze this past weekend.

I was up there at the Thoroughbred Center for it and

he could feel great white once he put his head in front in the

breeze of his work made him stop and wait on the other horse to

come back to him. So they know what they've got.

He knows that they want to have a target and I think you can

kind of throw out the Bluegrass race because of that.

The question with him is that Bluegrass was his only attempt

on dirt. So that is a that is a question

with him going into. This, but this is Paul Little,

this is Uncle MO. This should be a horse that can

do the should. Yeah, he's going to be he's

going to be probably in the the the group of horses are going to

go up to the lead and he's going to be kind of in that middle of

the pack, slash the back half of the pack, maybe gets the jump on

a horse like Ocelli. And if he can, if he can make

that make that run and then get himself ahead enough before he

starts waiting on the other horses, he could definitely run

well here. John Ennis has done absolutely

everything to make sure that there was nothing wrong with him

coming out of that Kentucky Derby flip.

And so he's gone through every box.

He's been riding him himself. The fact that he enters into

this race is a sign that he has checked all of John's boxes.

And John's a guy that likes racing in Kentucky.

He could very easily sit and wait for the Matt Win Stakes

with this horse. And he told me on Saturday that

if we don't run in the Preakness, that's where we're

going. We're going to the Matt Win, so

the fact that he's willing to take the shot, send him to the

Preakness and leave Kentucky, I think that that's a huge plus in

what he thinks of great whites chances here.

He's gelded. He named the last gelding to win

a Triple Crown race. Had to look this up that.

Bird was a gelding in 2009. There was a gelding since there

wasn't one that won the Belmont OR.

Something How about that? All right.

OK, so by the way, in our sport, because of the nature of

breeding, I always encourage people find a three-year old

filly you like, follow her because she might raise that

four and five like and be great, right.

Well, seriously, 3 year old gelding Great White this this

actually, I mean, yeah, this might be an OK thing if this

ends up being a really good horse.

The gelding angle actually, especially the handicap

division, yeah, could be really interesting.

And I just want to point out coming out of the Derby, Great

White is the second most popular horse in the country behind

Golden Tempo. Because not only is not only was

he popular before for being huge, but the whole thing with

him flipping behind the gate and the Derby, everything that I've

posted on social media with him in it recently has just taken

off great. And so he Golden Tempo is the

most popular horse in the country at the moment.

Great White's number 2 right behind him.

So there's there's gonna be a lot of people rooting for Great

White this weekend. Wood Memorial, runners in Iron

Honor and Napoleon Solo. Chad Summers very clearly thinks

he's got one of the very best 3 year olds in the country.

He's going to try him again, of course.

The way of the Champagne last October there at Aqueduct hasn't

quite gotten back to that level. Here was better in the wood than

he was South in the Florida Fountain of Youth.

But Iron Honor is the Chad Brown horse here that if we were

looking for the Chad Brown horse from New York to steal this

thing, it's probably him. Yeah.

Well, it's funny because both of these two fit kind of good

trends heading toward the Preakness recently.

Because you think of a horse that won the Champagne, didn't

really do a whole lot in the prep season for the Derby, and

then ran really well in the Preakness.

Blazing Sevens almost won the Preakness, and so why can't

Napoleon Solo do the same thing now?

Different running. Size.

Look at you with a blazing 7. I know.

Looks I like that a lot, but Napoleon Solo again, another

horse that's gonna be up and on the pace.

He's up on the pace for sure. Oh, this is an iron honor that's

going to want to sit right off. Yeah.

I mean, that's the other part of this is between those two

horses. You're right, Napoleon Solo is

going to go. I think Napoleon Solo, he

actually kind of ran sneaky good in the Wood Memorial.

He was really the Wood Memorial. Yeah.

He took the heat early from Take Me Jimmy and we saw Take Me

Jimmy run a big race in the Peter Pan this weekend one

second. And then he he hung around

pretty well. He only lost by two and three

quarter lengths even though he was fifth.

And, you know, they made the decision didn't look like he was

going to get in on points for the Derby, so they made the

decision to reroute for the Preakness.

I talked to Chad Summers the day after the Derby and he

mentioned, you know, once you started to see the dropouts and

scratches, you're like, maybe we should have been in the Derby,

you know, kind of feeling like they were missing out.

But I think that actually sets them up better for a big

performance this weekend. I don't I don't think I would

have liked his chances in the Derby.

I actually like them here in the Preakness a little bit.

But Iron Honor, following the typical Chad Brown trend.

Run the Wood Memorial, get beat there, come back, win the

Preakness after skipping the Derby.

Derby. I mean is this going to be that

easy with the 13 horses? Just bet the Chad Brown horse

doing what cloud computing and early voting did is that?

Is it just going to be that easy this weekend?

St. Elias taking the 1st 2 Jewels of

the Triple Crown. I mean, it's off the table, of

course. The other, and I think the most

compelling storyline here is something that in 2022 I could

not have imagined could happen on Saturday.

And that would be that by the end of the day, we could have in

our race, in our in our sports history, three women who have

won the three Triple Crown races.

Yeah, one in each one. One in each one.

And this is not something in 2022 that we had ever seen.

We see the Peter Pan winner in Archangelo go on and win the

Belmont for Jenna Antonucci in 2023.

We watch, of course, this year with Sheree Devoe in Kentucky

Derby 152 with Golden Tempo, Taj Mahal winner of the Federico,

Tessio and Sean. One of my favorite jokes that

I've told. I think it's my dad joke of dad

jokes in horse racing. Do you know what the Federico

Tessio's good for to tell you who's not winning the Preakness?

It's one of my favorite jokes. It's mean, but it's accurate,

right? 8/19/84 I was a young man, Sean,

three years old. You, your parents probably

didn't even know each other existed.

OK. And Deputed Testimony wins the

Tessio that goes on to win the Preakness of Ed Pimlico.

Taj Mahal is going to try to do that.

Now, he's a Florida bred, not a Maryland bred, so that's a

little bit different. But this is a son of Nyquist.

Quality Rd. on the damn side. Let's not get mixed up in what

this is. This is a great horse, OK?

And he's running like it. And Brittany and Brittany

Russell has talked about wanting to seize the moment, enjoy the

moment, because in her words, you don't always get horses like

this and you don't always get into spots like this.

Sean Collins, we have an opportunity here and it's a

legitimate 1. Not just that that trio could

happen by Saturday, that we go back-to-back in Triple Crown

races with female trainers. Taj Mahal can absolutely win on

Saturday. He can OK that to me alone as a

storyline, it is amazing to me. And I thought about this a lot,

actually, how quickly sports change and and they they change

cultures in the 20th century, for example, in the United

States, the easiest example is integration, right?

In sports, the teams that integrated one.

Yeah. Who they just did.

When you when you widen the net of who's available for your

team, you're going to get better players on average than a guy

who has a smaller pool of players, right.

You just will. I I, I think we're very quickly

getting into an era in horse racing that is more

representative of the quality of the female trainers that we've

had in the past. It's a representation of that.

It is the results are finally on the, on the, on the biggest

stages because you and I see them every day.

Yep, Right. You talked about Sheree Devoe

just being out of the track in the morning for workouts.

Yeah, every day. Yeah, she does every day.

That's how she operates. And so it's not a, we know that,

but we also are the host of Blood Horse Monday, right?

That's a that's a that's a, that's part of that too, But for

the general public, man and different things.

Hearing these quotes too from these women, by the way,

overwhelmingly you got to work your butt off.

And yes, I recognize that I am a role model for younger women,

but hey, I got to go back to work.

It seems to be the articles over and over and over again.

Fascinating stuff, man. And this is Starlight.

I mean, this is big connections. I mean, this is like I said,

Nyquist Quality Rd. I mean, everything about Taj

Mahal says he can win on Saturday.

Yes, it does. And this is a horse that we've

been high on for a while. We were both thinking that they

might throw him into the woods. I thought he was going to try

the Derby, yeah. Yeah.

And so if we thought of him as Derby quality, of course we're

going to think of him as Preakness quality for sure.

And this is no one's home track more than Taj Mahal.

I know, I think and I think he gets a huge benefit of this

being at Laurel and not at Pimlico this year.

Yep. It's he's not going to see

anything new like the rest of the field.

He he knows this track, he can win on this track.

He's been impressive. I mean, he broke his mate and,

and two weeks later rolled back and won a stakes race and then

he took a little bit of time, comes back and wins a mile and

an eighth by 8 and 1/4 lengths. So I mean, he's he's as legit

here again, though, he's another horse that's going to be up on

the pace. The pace scenario is going to

determine this whole thing. Yep.

And but I think out of all the pace horses, he's the one that I

feel the best about. OK.

I would say OK. He's willing to do it, too.

Like you got up by 10 lengths in that race and everyone came up

to him and. When they gave him a breather.

And he essentially ran 2 races in the Tessio.

Yeah. I mean, he just took a lead.

He let everybody catch up to him and he took off again.

I mean, his final splits were super, super impressive.

Then his miracle would He was on the flip side of that.

He was kind of battling. He had to fight it out the whole

time and he did it. Second race ever yeah So you

know in the same in a very similar way to how we talked

about patente or emerging market coming out of very few lifetime

starts. Taj Mahal checks a lot of those

boxes as well improving speed figures each time out he goes a

little bit further each time out he's won on fast and muddy go.

He's just the kind of horse checks a lot of boxes.

The breeding obviously is. There, look at you got the PPS

up right here. Look at that bullet on both of

his workouts. That's where all they are,

Federico Tessio. And now he's got a bullet on

both of his workouts going into the into the.

All of those in Laurel Park. Prickness.

Exactly. It's just it's.

Horse likes to track. It is an incredible, incredible

thing that we may go from no female trainers having won a

Triple Crown race in 2022, to have a representative in all

three races by the end of this weekend.

And there's a very good chance that's going to happen.

It is, I'd say absolutely. I mean, he's probably got a good

shot to be the favorite. He he's not the favorite, he's

in the top 3 for sure. Yes.

Who do you think's favorite in this race when all is said and

done? I think the iron honor maybe.

I said the candidates are probably Iron Honor, Taj Mahal

and Dosely I think. Dosely I think.

Dosely is going to get some Derby money even though he's a

maiden. Yep.

And he should, by the way. Yeah, he.

Should great White, great Derby, Great White's going to get a lot

of the general public money. This is why.

But I don't think it'll be enough to get him down to down

to favoritism here. It did get him down to I don't

know what he was by the time I think Derby was like around 20

something to one off his 50 to 1 morning line before he

scratched. But yeah, but.

Well, they saw that video of him eating a pine tree.

That's pretty cool. But if he could eat a pie tree,

he could win the Derby. But yeah, I think I think

probably favoritism is between those three.

I. Would say, oh man, it's we by

the way, we left off three horses or so that I think could

win this race like I just. Well, mention their names.

OK, I will. It's not pretty boy Mia.

I'm not gonna lie about that one.

All right, so talking's an interesting one here for Danny

Gargan. OK?

And here's why. And it's only this reason his

results do not match up with where Danny Gargan's putting

him. But I'll be darned if I'm going

to question Danny Gargan with three-year olds this time of the

year after what we just. Saw he's been training the best

in. His life.

So like this is the part also everybody lost by that distance

in the Bluegrass. Everyone did.

There were really two races. There were further ado and

everybody else OK, And he ran with Otino who?

Whatever, I I'm just, I'm fascinated by talking.

I just I trust Danny Gargan. This time of year is

essentially. What I'm saying, well, and I

think he's going to be one of those horses that's behind that

big pace battle up front. And just like I mentioned, a

great white can be in kind of that position to maybe get the

early jump. I also just want to throw in the

hell we did. I was going to just talk.

About that second in the Lexington.

This is 1/2 brother to Senor Buscador.

That's his first time over two turns in the short stretch

there. Man, he's going to get more time

here. Was willing to sit just off of

it behind Trendsetter who just ran well up in New York.

I'm fascinated by him as well. Yeah, but yeah, half brother of

Senor Buscador here. We know Senor Buscador is a

pretty nice horse, won the Saudi Cup so.

Springboard mile. I mean lots of races.

Yeah, if this is a horse that can, a horse that can, you know,

take that step forward here second time around 2 turns, I

think it's going to be huge for him.

What do we do with bull by the horns?

I really liked that win at. Rush away.

Win. I don't think he's necessarily

up to this, but he's going to be another one that's going to get

set up by the pace probably and come flying in late, so maybe he

gets it done. We watched, we watched

incredible leave Florida after like, what are we doing here?

And he wins the Virginia Derby. Bull by the horns leaves the

fountain of youth. What are we doing here?

By the way, a Saffy horse at Gulfstream that didn't run well,

Yeah, I mean, good luck with that, right?

Gets out of there, wins the rush away right away from off the

pace and in a race with a bunch of pace.

Could it be Bull by the Horns that's running late?

I mean, hey son of Essential Quality, where have I seen this

before? And he beat Trendsetter, who won

the yes, won the Lexington, as you mentioned, ran a sneaky good

third. I felt like in the Peter Pan, I

feel like he's not going to get talked about a lot from that

performance, but I thought he did run well and those horses

just didn't come back to him, but.

So that's I, I really, yeah, Bull by the Horns is a closer.

I think it's really fascinating and I think you're going to get

a huge. Price, but if if we get as fast

a pace as it looks like we might be getting and then you're

thinking who's going to be coming in at the very end, it's

going to be a selling and it's going to be bull by the horns

are going to be the two. And so which one of them is

going to be the better closer is going to be the question.

And so I think if if everything follows his way, he could

definitely pull it off. I don't think I don't think

normally he's he's at the talent level yet where he could be

like, you know, consider one of the top choices in here.

But if everything falls his way, I definitely think he could

definitely come with that late run, get get a piece of it or

maybe get the win if things fall right of.

Course, we've already talked to you about it, but you should go

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ahead of the Preakness Stakes. See Sean Collins.

I'm Louis Rabo. How many crabs can Sean eat in a

weekend? Find out next week.

The Blood Horse is dedicated to the improvement of thoroughbred

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