BloodHorse Monday 5/5/25 | Kentucky Derby 151 Reaction

All right, welcome in two days after Derby edition of Blood

Horse Monday, Louis or Beau, Sean Collins hanging out with

you. Thanks so much for starting your

racing week with Blood Horse here on the podcast.

Sean, I know this is always a sad day for you.

We are as far away from the Derby as we possibly can be.

Do you do you collapse the night after Derby though, knowing that

you got to get up early again or is it still like are you just

kind of energized by the fact? But because by the way, we got a

great race this year again, another very good rendition of

the Kentucky Derby in addition 151 here.

But what is Sean Collins? You have to you're.

I don't want to say your whole existence is built around the

Derby, but man, it's darn. Close.

I mean, it pretty much is at this point, yeah.

But yeah, it's always getting home afterwards.

It's depressing. It's like, man, it's over

already. But you know, I have a couple

Derby traditions that I still, you know, carry on from when I

was a kid. When I was a kid, we used to

always have McDonald's on Derby day.

I like that because we didn't we were going to be sitting in

front of the TV watching the race.

So we didn't want to cook like a sit down meal.

So I grabbed McDonald's on the way home from the track just to

keep the tradition going. You have pretty much crawled

into bed, crashed there like almost immediately, and then

woke up again at 4:30 the next morning 'cause even though

Derby's over, you got to go back and see the Derby winner the

next morning. I got 4 hours of sleep.

You know, I remember a couple of years ago they asked Dick Saban

on the night of the national championship game, he's holding

the crystal football and they say, what are you doing

tomorrow? And he said, well, you know,

recruiting windows open right now.

And I and I think that whatever I think of the trainers though,

right? It's like I remember I was

talking to Brad Cox one time and he had just won some huge race

and say, hey, what are you What are you doing to celebrate?

He's like getting up at 4:00 to go to work.

How many question is this? And so for sure the the day

after a busy time on the backside still at Churchill

Downs, you'll hear from many of the connections of sovereignty.

Who does win Kentucky to be 151 including off right of the show,

by the way, gets the blood horse Monday bump in Michael Banahan

with the dolphin. They sweep the weekend with the

Kentucky Oaks winner and good cheer, of course.

And then of course, sovereignty on Saturday also heard from

Junior Alvarado. Who else are we going to have in

the program? Today, well, we're going to also

talk to Bill Mott smile was so big the entire weekend.

And you know, after even the next morning when all of U.S.

media members are hounding him, he sold a big smile on his face

was still saying yes to everything.

You could see that he was really soaking it all in.

You know you, I think, he said in the press conference

immediately after the race. Like, you know you want to win

no matter what, but winning it, seeing the horse cross the wire

first, celebrating it in that moment definitely was a much

better experience. Yeah, no doubt about it.

So certainly congratulations to all of those connections.

Sovereignty, obviously very ready for the moment, ended up

being my top pick. It was Rodriguez until the

scratch. Of course, sometimes you fall

backwards into the right pick there, but certainly, frankly, A

worthy Derby winner did all of the right things, did all the

right work in a race that did have a lot of, you know,

calamity at the beginning. Frankly, you know, he was able

to avoid some of that. He.

Was involved in some. But he was involved in it as

well and overcame it. And so, yes, we're the Derby

winner here. We go to the call of the

Kentucky Derby here. As they turn for home in

Sovereignty is coming with Him on the outside.

Two of them go right by with a furlong to run Journalism and

Sovereignty nose to nose down to the last 16th of a mile.

Sovereignty has taken the lead. Journalism is second toward the

good side by Ace is third. But it will be Sovereignty to

rule the Kentucky Derby there. You go, Larry, calm us on the

call. Of course, NBC Sports there.

Appreciate everyone over there. Sovereignty does rule indeed

rules the day. Journalism, a very valiant

effort in second, I thought, I think 3 of the horses that we're

going to want to watch the rest of the year finished 1-2 and

three here, John. I think that's what's especially

exciting for me. Yeah.

I mean, we've had a couple years now where the Derby winner has

not come back and won another race.

And I think it was pretty cool to see.

I think the three horses that finished in the top three, I

think we went into the race expecting that these were three

of the top horses. I think we came out of the race

thinking these are the top three horses in this division.

It's interesting too to watch now as we have up on, and if you

haven't watched us on YouTube or on Spotify, you're certainly go

welcome to go watch us on the video feed there so you can hear

all these things that we're talking about as far as videos

and interviews and those sorts of things.

You can see them as well. The slop at Churchill that day,

they did such a great job with the surface itself that every

runner who ran their race won their race, right from Copion

all the way down to what we saw in the Kentucky Derby.

I think they deserve a bit of kudos for how well they handled

the wet track that day. Yeah, they Churchill Downs track

maintenance crew, they did a fantastic job.

I walked on that track during the walk over and it was, it was

actually, believe it or not, fairly easy to walk over, at

least for me. I thought it was you.

Don't weigh 1000 lbs, but that's right.

Well, yeah. I know they had a different

experience, but you know, it definitely, I wasn't getting

stuck in it the way that I thought I was going to when I

first walked out there. So they did a great job, you

know, keeping the water out of the track.

That track is always, I think had, you know, good reputation

of being able to dry out. And also, you know, I covered a

couple of the turf races that day and every person that I

talked to you after the race, I asked them, you know, what do

you think of the course? Did you think it was going to be

a concern? They all complimented that the

turf course was in great shape throughout the whole weekend.

So they shout out to the track maintenance team there at

Churchill Downs, you know, and they had the track ready to go

for that day and. I want to be really clear, this

is something I was critical about was the turf course and

how things were being handled in in past years.

And so I want to, whenever there's criticism, if there's a

a time for praise, then we should do that as well.

And this weekend was a show of how well those courses are put

together at Churchill Downs. They did a great job over that

weekend. Look, you mentioned right before

we went on air, is there a chance that actually the top

five, the top ten are the actual top ten horses that ran in this

race? And I think that's such an

interesting angle, young Sean Collins for us to look at in

this spot. So obviously we think of the top

three in this spot as being ones that we're not just going to be

talking about during May. We're going to be talking about

them when we get to Saratoga, hopefully when we get to Del Mar

in November. The horse like Final Gambit, who

we haven't mentioned yet for Brad Cox.

Again, just another example of a Ruby winner finishing in the top

five of this race. One of the headlines of this

weekend is that Ruby really matters for the Kentucky Derby.

It's still very much does. We can all kind of roll our eyes

at it and oh, they spell it STAAKS, you know, these kinds of

things. Oh, it's a gimmick.

Except that it isn't in the Kentucky Derby.

And he had a horrible trip and he still came flying in and

ended up finishing fourth here. And so that was a he.

Was 15th after the the first half mile of this race.

Yeah, he was. He was well back there and Luan

Machado was able to somehow find find a way through and come

flying down the center to get that 4th place.

But big performance from him. But yeah, as you mentioned, I

said to you before the show, was this the one of the first times

or one of the few times where we actually had who coming out of

the race we think are the top ten horses in the division

finish in the top ten places in the Derby.

So top ten. We had sovereignty journalism by

Aza, Final Gambit, Owen Almighty, Burnham Square,

Sandman E Ave. Chunk of Gold and Tis tastic,

right? Maybe not finishing an exact

order that we would rank, but. Who's at the bottom 10?

That would be in your top 10? Is it someone like Luxor Cafe?

Is it a cold battle? Who is it?

Luxor Cafe. I would say no, just because we

hadn't seen him against these kind of horses in America and he

did get a very rough trip here, so I'm not going to discount

him, but at least if I was ranking the top ten horses in

this field, I don't think I would put him in it.

Never. Better than eighth during this

Kentucky Derby, Yeah. And then Cole Battle, I think

maybe I would switch like Cole battle with like a chunk of gold

type of thing, just cause Cole battle is a grade 2 winner.

Chunk of gold hasn't gotten that stakes win yet.

So I'd maybe, I'd maybe switch that.

And then you have the question mark of Citizen Bowl.

You know, maybe he's one of the better horses in the race, just

that shorter distances. Maybe this just isn't, you know,

the mud, the distance, but outside of those, I mean, when

you really look at it, it's almost like the top 10 3 year

olds kind of split in half. The top ten were up in the top

half. The bottom 10 in this race were

well, I guess the bottom 9 in this race were in the bottom 9

and they kind of felt that that's how they ended up running

the. Other way to look at this, for

me at least, is in that bottom 10.

I wonder if 5-6, even seven of them, don't do something

different than we saw them do on Saturday.

Flag Mohawk going back to the grass?

Almost certainly. I wonder if we won't see a Neo

equals going one turn very, very soon.

Those kinds of things where hey, you got to try the Derby, but

hey, this wasn't what they were meant to do.

I have the cups upstairs that the unofficial Derby Cup that

had all the last place finishers on it.

Whitmore's on that cup, Mendelssohn's on that cup.

Good horses don't always finish in the top 10 of this race, and

so this might have just been a case of a group that just the

last 10, like you mentioned, they might just need to go back

to what they're better at. But you know, the point that I

that you know, I'm thinking of here, you go back last year,

fierceness is in the bottom 10. Obviously you would come out of

that race saying he's one of the top 10 three-year olds.

Even though he finished, I think he was 17, he was, he was still

in the top ten. You go back Cyberknife when he

finished in the back of the field, 20/22, he was the

Arkansas Derby winner coming in, going in, he was the high school

winner coming out. And so you look at those and

you're like, OK, there were horses that if you were to rank

them after the Derby, there were horses that finished in the

bottom 10 that you would still have in your top 10 three-year

olds this year. I think we pretty much, with

maybe one or two exceptions, we pretty much the top ten that we

would come out of this race ranking, maybe different orders,

but they all finished in those top spots.

A fascinating Derby for sure, but that top ten, as Sean points

out, almost certainly the top ten that we think of.

Let's do the the Owen almighty thing.

He ran huge. Unbelievable.

Yeah. Shout out to Owen Almighty

because there was a moment where he turned for home.

Everybody's saying he's got no shot.

Why are they running in the race?

There was AI had a solid 5 seconds there at the top of the

stretch where I said to myself, Oh my God, Owen Almighty's going

to win the Kentucky Derby. That's how great of a race he

ran. And, you know, he ended up, you

know, probably hitting that distance while a little bit at

the end. Or maybe it was just that the

other horses that were coming from the back of the pack ended

up outrunning him there in that final stage.

But man, he ran huge and proved all those doubters wrong, didn't

he? Maybe even his own trainer who

really had questions about the 10 furlongs throughout the

process. But I, you know, something about

him, Sean, that I would, you know, like to bring to the show

is I am just a fan of horses when I that I know what kind of

effort level I'm going to get. One of the great things about

Thorpedo, Anna, even in defeat this weekend, she fought all the

way through all the pressure and all the bouncing around and

everything else. She really tried to win that

race. Owen Almighty, every time he

steps on the track, gives you an incredibly honest effort.

He gives it his all over. You know what you're gonna get,

and that's the kind of horse man.

I hope he's around this year. Next year we get to see him, you

know, grow up a little bit, 'cause I think if he grows into

that body, one turn mile kind of horse and that mile horse next

year, that kind of thing, I think he could be that.

And they're looking at Woody Stevens right now personally on

that would be a perfect spot for him.

So yeah, I think he he proved himself that no matter what the

race scenario is, no matter what the distance is, he's going to

give it his all. And was glad to see him do it.

He was getting a lot, he was getting a lot of a lot of Flack

earlier in the week. So I was glad to see him prove

all the doubters wrong. Yeah, I remember when he drew

the 20 and and met a bunch of people like, OK, that's enough

of that. Yep.

And. Now top there it.

Is there it is big old check again.

Having a great 3 year old season is Owen almighty.

We see the points, a top points earner in Burnham Square.

Brian Hernandez gets them out here, makes his best run very,

very late. Incredibly difficult trip here.

It could just say in his comment line on Equibase here, it could

just say, yo, it didn't work out very well.

Something like this, you know, something like that.

Brutal trip, the brutal trip for him.

Top points earner in this one. Wouldn't be stunned to see him

very, very good in the bail bond, for example.

Oh, yeah. And you know, honestly, they

might, they might even end up going Preakness here.

I didn't get a chance to see Ian Wilkes the day after, but I

talked to his exercise rider, Mark Cutler, and he said he came

out of the race perfect, wasn't blowing hard or anything.

And you know, he's the kind of horse that can kind of bounce

quickly out of races. But I mean, we expected him to

be way back in the field. That was what we were expecting

and he ended up kind of being in that stalking position right

behind the pace. He was like 6 along the rail

early and then admired Daytona just stopped right in front of

him. He went from six like all what

what what does the chart end up saying where he ended up as far

back as. He oh, Burnham Square was as.

Far back it says 12. I think if you go between that

where it says 12 and when he came back up to 11 for something

on there, I think he actually dropped back to like 15th or

16th at one point and then he comes all the way back and still

finishes 6th. So we talked about it when he

won the Holy Bowl, he had that big move and then he stopped and

then he made the big move again. We saw that here.

He got completely stopped all the way in the back of the field

and then came back up and got 6. I think he's probably the most

live in one of these next few spots if he can get a clean

trip. Fascinating part of the betting

here. By the way, the longest shot of

the board was less than 43 to 1. Yeah.

Because people have watched too many 80 to one shots win.

This. You always see a couple years

after those big long shots that the odds just don't get as high.

Correct, everybody. Try to watch out for it.

Once. Once you forget.

Once the once, the general public forgets.

That's five years out, right? Yeah, something like that.

But once the general public forgets, if you start seeing

those 607080 to ones, that's usually when one of them hits.

Go ahead. So jump on.

That's exactly right. Sovereignty just did pay a

healthy 1796 to win. I know that's.

Pretty good for second choice, right?

Or maybe was he third? He ended up being third choice.

I don't know how he ended up being third choice because.

Luxor Cafe jumped second. No, Sandman was sick.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, Pardon me.

So. And yeah, Luxor Cafe actually

got close, so that's probably all the Japanese money coming.

In yeah, we, we waited for for everyone to wake up in Japan and

then all of a sudden all that. Money I know because he was not.

He was not that low for most of the day about. $0.25 on the

dollar, a little bit, $25.25 total in a difference of of the

odds to one there. What do you make of how Sandman

rallied? I would love him if the Belmont

were at, you know, Belmont. Yeah, but it's not.

It's a quarter mile, a mile and a quarter.

Excuse me, at Saratoga this year.

What do we make of Sandman? Does he need, does he feel like

a Sierra Sierra Leone type where he's going to pick off one of

these again, but he's going to need the right trip?

I could, I could see him picking off he, he didn't like the mud.

That is what Mark Cassie told me yesterday morning.

It's just the not necessarily the running on the mud, but he

in the early stages, he was really unsettled with getting

the kickback in the face from the mud.

So I think that was that was the main player for him.

He still made a nice run. He was wide throughout the whole

far turn. So he still made a nice run.

But I, I think if we, if we see the Belmont on a fast track,

like you said, I would love to see him at a mile and 1/2 in the

Belmont. Unfortunately, we're not going

to get that this year. So maybe that opens the door for

someone else. If the Belmont was going to be a

mile and a half, I'd be all over him.

You know, Tappet's loved that mile and a half of the Belmont,

so I'd be all over him in that spot.

For sure, journalism, we haven't really talked about him yet.

And I thought a couple of things.

I thought he showed himself very well.

I thought Umberto gave him a great shot.

And I don't think they have anything to be sorry about.

I don't think they have anything to be ashamed of.

It's got to be a tough pill to swallow to finish second.

The Kentucky we get all the way there, I'm positive.

But, you know, we talked with Aaron Wellman.

I find him to be a realist. I find him to be he.

There's no better way than saying that he just gets it.

Yeah, and it's tough to get it when it's the Derby, I'm sure.

But journalism moving forward. Did this change your opinion

about him? Because for me, it simply did

not. I was very impressed with him on

Saturday. He ran a winning race, so it was

just sovereignty ran a little bit better.

I think these are the two best 3 year olds in the country coming

out of this weekend. I think they proved that.

I think they ran like it. And you know, if they run the

race again maybe, and if they run on a fast track, maybe it's

slightly different, but I still think they're the top 2.

And so I don't think he lost anything in defeat here because

you, you know, this is the exciting part about the Derby.

You have all these theories going in.

You have these ideas of who's the best horse in the country.

And then it's finally where the East Coast, the West Coast, the

horses that are running down South, it's where they finally

get to meet. We finally get to figure it out,

and it's just turned out that on this day, sovereignty was just a

little bit better than journalism was.

But journalism lost nothing in defeat here, especially first

time on a muddy track. Totally agree.

Who in the bottom 10 do you expect to bounce back into

something significant as a three-year old?

So not at any point in their career, but this year as a

three-year old. Is there one?

Maybe if they go back and change up their style?

I'll be honest, I think like a Neoequos actually could be a

really good horseman. Before I think Neoequos could be

really good and especially you know some of the some of the

smaller stakes that they have done in Florida old stream.

I think he could definitely tear through that circuit.

Cole Battle I think is going. To, by the way, that's a good

way to pick up a bunch of good checks.

For your yes it is yes it is I think Cole battle is going to be

really good in that you know the the second tier of these summer

3 year old races so he. Looks like a Matt win winner to

be. Thank you.

Gosh, Oh my. The Matt win, same spot, yes,

you got that like the Matt win. The Ohio society man in the best

way. Yeah, right.

And he absolutely does. And, and again, the trip in the

19 horse field, I mean, good luck and he's already a small

horse to begin with. Get him in a 912 horse field and

a Matt win. Give him a chance to get out

there. I, I, I, I'm with you.

I know Frank was really high on him as well coming out of that

Arkansas, of that Arkansas road to the Derby.

I, I don't think we've seen all of his best running.

At least I hope not Lonnie Briley, of course, a cool story

this year, but I I would like to think we'll see him in a Matt

win kind of race or, you know, even even these regional Midwest

derbies now, man Ohio, Iowa, Indiana, those are West

Virginia. Those are big money, man.

They're all graded. I mean, you can you can really

clean up with some of these. It'll be fun to watch which of

these horses end up in those spots as.

Well, yeah. And then, you know, maybe, you

know, he spends his summer doing those kind of Midwest derbies

and then ends up in a race like the Pennsylvania Derby, try to

take a shot at the grade one down the line.

I think that'd be a good path for him.

And I think I'm flying. Mohawk did not run well here, I

think. But once he gets back on the

turf, I think he could be a huge.

Player especially, like maybe Kentucky Dallas preview day,

yeah, something like that. Get him back and that kind of

thing. Find out if he's good at

Kentucky nouns, why not, right? And so interesting set of horses

here as far as what they might be doing moving forward.

But I thought, Sean, like you said earlier, we saw the very

best of the three-year old dirt males finish in the top five

here. And that's the good news.

Do you think Final Gambit continues as a dirt horse now?

Well, I think the option's definitely there.

He ran well enough to earn another shot at it, I think, and

so he is there. Is there just a chance he's just

a he's just good? I think he's just good.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

I think it just kind of happened where he took a little longer to

develop up that led to Brad leaving him a turfway for the

winter as kind of the place to develop him, and now he's going

to be going on to bigger and better things.

Yeah, so there's your Derby review.

And of course we want to thank our friends at OBS.

The weather isn't the only thing that heats up in June.

We can use some heating up but we can really use the meeting up

so OBS help us out and produce two time graders, Cup winners,

Stormy Liberal and Golden Sense as well as grade one winners at

Dare Manor, Yaupon and Warlike Goddess.

The OBS June 2 Year Olds and Horses of Racing Age Sale is the

place to find ready made talent ahead of the summer's top races.

Before the juvenile action season comes to an end, come see

what the 2 year old source of the world has to offer at OBS

June 17 and 18. Been hanging out with us for the

since the beginning. We love the folks down there at

OBS. Got to see some of them over the

weekend as well at Churchill Downs.

Very, very appreciative of them hanging out with us.

Speaking of hanging out, you went back to the barns of

course, day after Derby. Michael Van Han, friend of the

show. You're welcome Michael, and the

little ball and whores Monday bump up for him.

How about all of our a lot of our guests that we had on the

weeks ahead of the Derby? I just want to point this out.

We had quite a few guests. They all ran very well.

We had Michael Banhan on for Sovereignty, we had Aaron

Wellman and Umberto on for journalism.

We did not have anybody from Baeza but Brad for Final Gambit.

And then we had Hunter Rankin on for Owen Almighty's, and we had

Ian Wilkes on our second episode for Burnham Square.

So it's five of the top 6. So if you're have a Derby horse,

get on this podcast next year if you want to make sure that

you're tuning in, that you're joining.

If you want a six figure check, you got to talk to Sean.

You understand that's how this works.

Answer my text message when I reach out to you.

That's all it is. Talk to Sean Collins, but you

did talk with Michael Banahan. This is a guy was very.

And I appreciate when guys do this or anyone, frankly, when

they tell you what the goals are and they don't hide from it.

The goal for Godolphin was to win a Derby.

Yeah. And they get it done this

weekend. It's a even.

It's a reminder for those of us who do this, how hard it is just

to do it. Steve Asmussen has all the wins.

It doesn't matter for the Derby purposes, right?

Good. Dolphins got all of the

resources forever until Saturday, it didn't.

It didn't matter for their Derby win totals, right?

That kind of thing. That's all different now.

So let's hear from Michael Banahan that he's with us.

Sean, this was backside Churchill Downs yesterday after

Kentucky Derby 151 in Sovereignty getting the win.

So I'm here with Michael Banahan the morning after winning the

Kentucky Derby with Sovereignty at Churchill Downs.

Michael, just take me through what that moment was like

yesterday. It was so exhilarating.

It's hard to put it into words. You know, it's the most iconic

race in America to try and win. We've we've always wanted to try

and get there. The sense of, of the, of the, of

the, of racing in America. And we've had a couple of

opportunities in the past didn't quite get there.

So to be able to do that yesterday with the team, with

Bill Mott's team, with our own team and so many people up here

that could share in the moment, it was so special for us.

You mentioned, you know, having those opportunities before.

I know essential quality is one that you guys talk about a lot

where, you know, he ended up fourth in the Derby across the

finish line. Does it make it more rewarding

getting a getting at this time, having some pass, you know, not

successes in the race? Not really because I would have

loved the essential quality one and he could have been the

second one. So I don't think you'd ever turn

down one. But it is extremely rewarding to

be able to do with a home bred as well.

And that makes it so rewarding to be able to do that for the

whole team that we have here in Kentucky to do is, you know,

we're a Kentucky based operation in the in the US and to be able

to do it, you know, signature racetrack in in Kentucky to win

a classic is is just unbelievable.

Well. Sheikh Mohammed, he's been

trying to win this race for so long.

Just take me through his devotion to trying to win the

Kentucky Derby and just his devotion to winning big races

across the world in general. Well, well, I think that's the

point. He has this, you know, came up

with the with the good alpha operation to try and win and

compete at the the global stage with the best races in the

world. And the Kiroki Derby is one of

those races, the Breeders Cups, any the Triple Crown races and

then you know, races in Europe, her iconic, the pre large

triumph, the Epsom Derby, the 2000 Guineas, any of the

classics over there, you know, in Australia, Melbourne Cups or,

or whatever it might be. He's a competitor, loves to

compete. Look, he's a sportsman above it

all and likes to compete in those type of races and have the

opportunity to to win them as well.

I know Bill Mott has talked a lot about the teamwork that goes

into getting a horse ready for this, to get a horse to win this

race. Just talk to me a little bit

about the good dolphin team that you guys have here at Kentucky,

everybody from the breeding side to the racing side, how you

manage that whole operation? We have a great team and

everyone plays their part no matter what role to play in US

and love having, you know, it's so wonderful that Kentucky is

the Senate of racing in America at the moment where we can enjoy

seeing our horses run, be it Churchill Downs, Keeneland,

Ellis Park, Turfway Park. So, so it's so great and

rewarding to have all our team so involved in this.

They're very engaged and we have a hard working team from the

people have fallen at the mayors to raising the yearlings to

rehabbing them to get them back on the track if they have minor

injuries. So everyone plays a very, very

important role, a vital role. And we've got great leadership

with Dan Pryde as our CEO all the way down through to to our

night watch people. So it's a it's a great team

effort and that's what it takes to be able to have big days like

we had yesterday and big weekends like we've had tell.

Me a little bit about what sovereignty has in his pedigree.

Well, hasn't been one of our longest duration mayors were

crowned. She was a purchase mayor and

unfortunately she didn't make it on at the racetrack.

But she was a beautiful mayor and we gave her every chance to

become a good brood mayor and it was a big play to go to into

mischief in her face. She's gone into mischief 3 times

in a row. It was a big play to go there,

but we had a lot of faith in the family with her physical

qualities. We thought it was the right,

right mayor to go to him as well.

We were fortunate that we had a really nice Philly called Jane

Gray. The bill also trained one open

Saratoga. Look like she had a lot of

talent. Didn't quite get to the heights

of of sovereignty, but it encouraged us to go back to into

mischief as well. And it's a wonderful family you

go back to some probably wait and good cheer.

We've had that family a lot longer when we acquired Stoner

side and we had a wedding toast to care.

McLaughlin trained for, you know, a couple of great one wins

for us and she's turned into a good broodmare, had a nice

stakes winner by the Bowie out in Dubai and has come up with a

wonderful Philly as she is on the faces in good cheer.

So to develop those families and for the boss to give us the

opportunity to develop them, it's so rewarding for us.

And for him to be able to compete at that level of being,

you know, being, being able to do that is very rewarding.

You mentioned good cheer. You guys won the Kentucky Oaks

the day before, so pulling off that Oaks Derby double last

fall, we were here October 27th for the Streets Sent Stakes and

the Rags to Riches Stakes. back-to-back races, Good cheer,

Sovereignty win, both of those. He told me at the time that

we're set up pretty well for a couple months down the line.

Seems like that all worked out just.

How do you keep? Those horses from that point to

get them to this point. Well, we've got five really,

really top class trainers here in America, great horsemen that

can develop these horses for us. So we can see that from when the

2 year olds come into them in May, June time and how they can

develop them, take them through those early steps, stair step

along the way to be able to develop those horses.

It was, you know, Brad did a wonderful job, a good cheer from

a maiden to an allowance went to a listed way into a graded when

to eventually culminating in the Oaks and the grade one way.

And that's how important it is to get those.

You can't miss those steps and try and accelerate them.

And then you'll probably ask the question what?

We did that a little bit with sovereignty, but we feel like,

you know, he ran so well in those maidens.

You know, another straight after the wire he'd broken as he would

have broken his maiden. So we sort of felt with enough

confidence that let's get him into a great address, especially

having a hair at Churchill two turns that was going to be help

him and be in his wheelhouse and you're having a Churchill Downs.

You're on the back of our mind. I don't think everyone has a

nice 2 year old is hoping to get to Churchill Downs and the first

weekend in May and he was one of those horses that we did high

hopes for. A lot of times it doesn't turn

out like that. We were very fortunate this year

that it did. Now I know we had you on the

podcast a couple of weeks ago after his Fountain of Youth win,

but just remind all our viewers, how did you get involved with

Goodolphin originally and what does this win?

Both these wins did Derby and the Oaks mean for you

personally. Well, I, I was fortunate enough,

I actually worked for Bill Mars at the time when I got a phone

call from Liam O'Rourke in Newmark and in England.

And there was an opportunity to go over there and manage one of

the farms over there under his direction.

And I went over for an interview, jumped at the chance

to join up with the team. And there was Darley at the

time. I've had some wonderful years

over a new market and when we bought our first farm here in in

Kentucky wrestling farm from the Claiborne, from Claiborne and a

handcuff family and it had raised some wonderful horses

over its time. And so Godolphin in America,

they entirely transitioned into Godolphin and a lot of growth

over the time here from being being more of a having a

broodmare band to source horses to run in Europe more than

anything else and transitioned more into a racing stable in

America then. And it developed over time and

wanted, you know, we ended up having a couple of nice

stallions, elusive quality and quite American that stood as

shake back Tombs Farm, Gainsborough.

And we wanted to have a roster of stallions here in the US and,

and a purchasing Charlie Ball farm for doing that.

And we've had, you know, some very, very nice stallions to

come through that. And, and it just develops over

time. And it's been such a great ride

to be wicked off. And for that long I've been,

I've been personally wicked off and since 1993 and it's been a

wonderful ride and so grateful to been an employee of Shane

Bahamas for all that time. But.

You mentioned Matt there. Just tell me about your

relationship with Bill Mott over the years.

Well, when I was a younger man, I wanted to try and guess all

the experience I could, be it on the breeding side of it or the

racing side of it. And I felt like I needed to

figure out what these horses went through when they came to

the racetrack, how they can, how they need to be developed.

And your Bill Mark was the up and common trainer in the US at

the time and a security job at him.

And, and I'd worked for different trainers.

I worked for Colin Hayes in Australia, who's a legendary

trainer down there and a leading trainer in the UK called Guy

Harwood. And were with those trainers at

the height of their powers, tried to absorb as much as I

could through them and went back to probably original roots on

from the breeding farms. And so it's just been a

brilliant ride and you've been, you know, but I was very

friendly with Bill. He's an amazing horseman and you

can see that the people that he has working from they're here

10/15/20 years, his assistant trainers been with him a long

time. So I think that shows you the

quality of the man that he is and how people enjoy working for

him. And he has a great team ethos

for for keeping those people around for a long time and they

enjoy working for them. Now, before I let you go here,

got to ask the obvious question. Two weeks from now, we're going

to have the Preakness Stakes in Baltimore.

I know you guys are going to see how it comes out of the race, do

all those kind of standard checks, but just what are your

thoughts right now on the Preakness?

Well, the Preakness obviously is an iconic race.

The middle, middle, middle of triple of the Triple Crown.

We would, you know, we'd love to have an opportunity to go there.

We wanted before Bernardini and obviously he didn't quite mate

to Derby. He was a little bit of a tiny

late developer. And we certainly give a due

consideration and as we always do what all our horses, they'll

tell us what direction to go in. I will do the right thing for

them. And if Bill and his team are

encouraged, the way he comes out of the race, how he goes back to

the racetrack, we want to go down that path.

We certainly have a good conversation about it.

But first and foremost, it'll be what's the right thing for the

horse and where we need to get down the road.

And as Bill alluded to already, it's a career that we want to

have with him and not just a five week spell.

And so we'll, we'll, we'll take everything under consideration

and then make a decision. Now I know it's only been a

couple hours since you won the race, probably about 12 hours or

so, but you're already starting to look at the 2 year olds

thinking about next year's Derby.

Well, we damn pride myself for down in Florida two weeks ago

and our last look at all the 2 year olds down there and just

did our allocations will be will be sending the our list over to

the trainers here on next week and it's like a Christmas Day

for them to figure out who they're going to get.

We have some nice 2 year olds, probably stronger on the Philly

front and the cold front for next year.

But we were very pleased that we have some nice horses to come

into into the 2 year old year and don't anticipate that we're

going to have a stellar crop as we had last year, but hopefully

we'll have some nice ones. Awesome.

Well, we hope to see you have the opportunity again next year

with a couple more horses. Thank you so much for taking the

time with us here, and congratulations on winning the

Kentucky Derby. Thanks very much.

Appreciate it. So for our audience, and we live

in a culture, Sean, where people get, you know, criticism is, is

it happens a lot, but praise does not.

You did a spectacular job on the backside this year to the point

that the guy who runs Godolphin's operation in North

America spent 12 full minutes with you 12 hours after winning

the Kentucky Derby. Congratulations.

Thank you. You did a spectacular job this

year. As your colleague, I wanted to

tell you that some of us cannot do what you do and you pick up a

lot of slack for those of us who cannot so that we can do this

and see these interviews and all of us can enjoy them together.

So thank you for doing all the hard work.

I know you love it. I know you love it, but still,

the work is appreciated. Thank you.

There's a lot to unpack from that.

Yes, but number one, you, you get the sense from him.

Do you think, and I and I have a very distinct answer about this,

Do you think he was happy, more happy that he won or more

relieved that they won the Kentucky area?

I'm leaning happy. I'm I'm leaning happy.

Big time. And that's cool because it would

be easy to be in his spot and feel all of the Godolphin

pressure. Oh yeah.

With how well things are going all over the world right now

with Godolphin Friday good cheer wins the thing like you could

you could have a moment of just exhale after journal.

Excuse me, after sovereignty crosses that finish line.

And he's not he's smiling. He's he's he's ready right.

Talking about it all in That's exactly right.

And so for me, that was really great to see.

And look, I'm biased here. He's been on the show.

He was very kind to us. He's kind when we seen him at

Turfway and to Churchill and different things.

But it's a nice reminder too. On this show especially, it is

not. You see a big operation and you

assume it's faceless. It isn't.

These are people he talks about the farm every time you talk to

him. Every time we hear about the

farm and the people on the farm and how they operate, who the 2

year olds are going to be in the next year, he just tells you.

I think Philly Cross a little better.

Awesome. Thank you for telling.

Good to know. We'll get into the good cheer

stuff later. By the way, we do have sound for

Brad Cox as well. Your main take away from this is

what? Well, I just, you know, I think

as you just said, one of the things to reiterate here is just

how many people are involved in making an operation like the

dolphin run. Because you know, I know a lot

of times you just you see the silks, you know, Sheikh

Mohammed's in charge of the operation.

But especially like for the American operation here,

everybody that's based in Kentucky at the farm, the fact

that they have several different trainers, just how much effort

and how much coordination goes into getting everybody on the

same page to have the level of success they have.

How many Eclipse awards have they won the row on a row owner

and breeder side? And that doesn't happen, just

you. That doesn't happen Chance.

You can buy expensive horses and have that success, but just, I

mean, you heard him talking about the pedigree aspect of it,

just the the mindset of what they're looking for when they're

buying their brood mares and when they're pairing them the

stallions like into Mischief when he went into that and just

the amount of work that goes into that.

It's like, yes, it's easier if you have a lot of money and you

can buy a lot of different horses.

But I mean, we've seen with good often they have not won the

Derby until this point. And so, but they have been

investing in the bloodlines, they've been investing in trying

to, you know, breed the breed these winters themselves.

They did it with a home bred. They finally broke through both

with good cheer and sovereignty, both home breds.

And I think that's a real testament to everybody in that

operation, all the hard work that they do.

One of the things that the director of North American

operations for Godolphin just said was how much he loves

Turfway Park. I'll take things I wouldn't have

expected to hear five years ago for a billion, Alex.

I mean, that's that is it's a remarkable shift of what's

happened in Kentucky. It's interesting to hear good

Dolphin praising Ellis Park. Yeah, right.

In the 2 year old program, we're watching the elevation of the

things that are happening in Kentucky right now.

And Godolphin is a big part of it.

Let's not let's not mince words about that.

Them having those horses here running in those programs is a

huge boon for the area. Yeah.

It's not even a question because you know, Brad Cox based here,

you know, we're starting, starting to see, you know, Hardy

get some horses from them as well.

But they're based at Turfway Park, right.

This kind of stuff. So it's interesting we see

Michael at Turfway all the time, right.

So this is this is an operation that is really chosen Kentucky

at the outset and seems to have really gone all in on Kentucky

as well. Yes, yeah, definitely seems that

way. They're they are involved pretty

much in every single meet. They're usually right there at

the top of these owner standings every single meet that we have

at all five race tracks. It is a remarkable thing to

watch with them. The other part is with Banahan,

listening to him talk about those coordinating efforts and

how effortless it is for him to just rattle off who's where and

what people are doing and who the trainers are in the

farmhands and this stuff and this and this reading block.

It's impressive. Yeah.

I mean, that the catalog in that guy's head, it's turning and

it's working, right. So it's really, really good.

And. And you feel good for them.

I wanted to ask this. Is it in your mind, you know,

when we get a bigger operation like a Godolphin starting to win

these things? We worried at all about

competitive balance. I'm not personally, because

we've seen lots of different people win the Derby and jump up

and win these kinds of races. But I I'm sure people out there

are wondering about these questions like, you know, when

the Dodgers win the World Series, is that good for

baseball? We ask these kinds of questions

in other sports. Are you at all worried about

that? No, especially with the Derby,

because I mean the. Especially the Derby.

Thing that is unique about the Kentucky Derby is everybody has

their shot at it. I mean, you saw it in this in

this field. You had, you know, a couple

horses that were worth $1,000,000 and then you had a

chunk of gold. It was in there 2500.

It's one of those races where anybody has a chance.

We've had a couple of years where the smaller guys won.

You think back to Rich Strike. You know, do you think about the

ownership connections with Mystic Dan last year where, you

know, the big names were not winning?

And then every once in a while you're going to get that big

name that does win, and sometimes you get them winning

multiple times. We'll see if Godolphin ends up

getting more winners down the line.

But I think that's one of the unique things about the Derby is

every year it could be the big guy, it could be the little guy.

And I think that's what keeps everybody so focused on trying

to win that race because they know that they have a shot if

they have the right. Horse If you are the Preakness

and you hear him call the Preakness prestigious race and

talk about the Triple Crown the way he did, do you feel good or

bad right now? I'd feel good.

I agree with you. You know, it's, it's always hard

to read because everybody at every year coming out of the

race, it's always, we want to make sure the horse is OK.

We want to check on the horse and everything like that.

Which, by the way. Let's yeah, that's 100% what you

should do. But you know, that's always,

it's always the same comment the day after where it sounds like

they're on the fence. 90% of the time they end up going to the

pre because the horse bounces out.

OK. And so I know we'll get to our

Bill Mott interview here in a little bit.

Sovereignty did come out of the race with a slight scrape on his

right front leg just because of all that bouncing around at the

start of the race that happened. But Mott said it's probably it's

just a super not Yeah, Superficial wasn't a cut.

It was just a scrape. It'll be fine kind of thing.

So as long as he bounces out of that, OK, nothing else pops up

from that. I'd imagine it was a good shot.

We'll see him did. You see sovereignty the morning

after. I did.

He looked fantastic and he looked regal and he looked.

He came up to where the photographers were standing and

just stared right at them, taking it all in, soaking it all

in. That's one of my favorite things

about the morning after the Derby.

This the first time I got had the opportunity to see the horse

the morning after the Derby was Rich Strike and I always talk

about how you could see the more laps around the barn he took and

noticed the people taking the pictures.

You could see it sink in that he realized he was the reason

everybody was there. And so that that's one of my

favorite things about the day after the Derby and sovereignty.

Definitely you could see that moment in him.

You could see that moment in him where he is just standing there,

ears pricked, staring straight at the cameras and just posing

for everybody. It's the best, isn't it?

Yeah, it really is. But those horses really do know

exactly what's going on. Sovereignty seems to be that

because we've watched him now move through these races through

the series and he makes sense of St. sense at least has made

every right move in every race. He just ran out of time in the

Florida Derby. Otherwise, he's been near

perfect. Well, Speaking of the street

sense, yeah, talk about how much expectations these guys had on

him. You never see Ma Godolphin

entering a maiden in a stakes race like that, especially at a

2 year old. I mean, we talked last week

about Publisher being in this race as a maiden, but you know,

it's the Kentucky Derby to run him in a stakes race, a Grade 3,

and it's a 2 year old for Derby points.

That's something these connections never really do.

So that shows you they've had so much.

Yeah, they had so many. Expectations, all of the things

they let him run from the 1010 out of 10.

By the way, if you go to the forum I'm not even looking at, I

just remember 'cause I picked him as a maid, thinking I was

smarter than everyone. And then he was a favorite.

But the fact that he's a maiden, he's the favorite in the race.

There's been a lot of high expectations on this, no, for a

long time. And he proved everybody right.

Definitely did fulfills all of those things.

Here's Junior Alvarado, by the way.

Winning jockey here in the post game press conference, I said

post game post. Race.

Yeah. What?

What sport are you in? Right now, I did a radio show

about basketball this morning. You settled down.

But no it these press conferences have become have

become very interesting the last couple of years.

They used to just be coach speak or trainer speak or jockey

speak, whatever you want to call it before.

I feel like we're getting more different kinds of answers.

Brad Cox had a really fascinating one about the Oaks

Trail of the Derby trail, for example, and his Oaks Press

presser post race with good cheer.

I'm interested to hear Junior here because I do think these

guys have been a little more forthcoming in these interviews.

So here's Junior Alvarado after the race.

Of course, the winning jockey board sovereignty.

Yeah, you know, he broke good and I'll have to say probably

the 3rd or 4th jump after the break, you know, the horse next

to me and the outside kind of came right in front of me and

you know, I clip heels a little bit right there.

So I'm like thinking like oh boy, I hope he didn't lose his

shoes and this track like this. But you know, then have to kind

of like just keep going and, you know, trying to save ground,

trying to see my way. How could I get to save ground a

little bit the first turn? And, you know, I think

everything we just, you know, falling right into place for me.

You know, I got to say ground the first turn.

And, you know, when we turn on the backside, you know, he was

still, you know, traveling very beautifully until, you know, I

would say we hit the fire pole, you know, and then he kind of

that's when he kind of was saying to me like, listen, I'm

ready. So, you know, from there I start

picking it up, picking it up, you know, I didn't want to get

too excited. And, you know, right when we

turned from home and I put him in the clear on the outside, you

know, I knew what he got. I knew what he's capable of.

And and and you know, he didn't disappoint me.

Junior, how much of any were you tracking journalism?

It looked like on the your kind of major moves simultaneously

almost. Well, you know, I was first, you

know, he got into a beautiful rhythm so and I knew I got set

Sandman like right behind in the outside.

So I was like before I make any move, you know, I got to make

sure you know he don't get the jump on me.

At the same time, you know, I got to make sure to the heat, I

wasn't trying to keep me boxed. So I'm just trying to act like I

was saying in a hurry. Then all of a sudden I get to

see where journalism was and I let my horse kind of move a

little bit forward. And then I could feel how Jose

Ortiz started picking it up and tried to go with me.

And after that, I think, you know, like every move I was

making, you know, I was just, you know, that horse was just

there for me every single single time.

And, and, and like I said, you know, I wouldn't be able to done

that with a horse that, you know, he I have to say I make

probably between six to seven a little move that he was there

for me in each time. Junior heading into the final

furlong, what did you see that made you say I got this?

I think when we hit the three pole right behind journalism and

I know I probably would be able to move and guard next to him

right at that point and I'm just waiting.

It's like I know I got them, I know I got them, I got them.

So let me just wait a little bit more and then right when we turn

in from home, put them in the clear.

And I still like I say, like, let me just get there just

little by little. I don't wanna, like I say, waste

my burst of punch right there and then get flat at the end so

we can like a little bit little inch and out.

But I could feel turning from home, he was going to get there.

And, and like I say, when's, you know, we, we hit day ball.

Like I knew like, like that is impossible way somebody's going

to be coming and beat him because he was still, you know,

running pretty hard at that point.

And, and, and like I said, I mean, I always trust him.

I I knew what he was capable of And and like I said, he was just

a great effort today. Junior, I've asked the other

two. Now I'd like to ask you what the

Derby means to you, what winning it means.

You know, still still thinking in, you know, to be honest, it

mean the word to me. You know, I I for me and for my

family, you know, coming from my country where, you know, the

only race that we will be able to to watch back there was just

the Kentucky Derby was the only race from USA.

We were able to to watch. And and you know that star that

little, you know, start getting in my head and I said, I hope

you know, that would be nice be the United States right in the

Kentucky Derby. Then, you know, little by

little, I think, you know, I started, you know, point that

out to be, to make it come true. And I think today we just did

that. Junior, when you enter the

spring on a horse that's good and then you have what happened

at Gulfstream with the spill, how scary was that for you

knowing that possibly, maybe you don't get this opportunity?

Yeah, I was completely heartbroken.

I thought that would say that. I knew that was this horse all

along. I knew that it was the right

horse for me for to win the Derby, you know, and I always

say, well, you know, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be.

But at the same time, like I say, like, I don't know if I

want to be able to get another horse like this if I don't get

back on time. But once again, you know, I got

the call the next day when I get out of the hospital.

Mr. Mosley, listen, you do what you need to do it and you know,

you'll get to ride all the horses back.

Just, you know, I think that gave me a hell of Peace of Mind

and, and to do what I needed to do the right way to recover

properly and, and, and, and I just did that.

Junior, you said it was still sinking in.

When is it going to sink in? I don't know, is it still, like

I said, I tried to think what word can I use when people ask

me like, what does it feel to win that they're in there?

And I, I don't know if I'm going to be able to actually to find

the right word that they can describe this feeling that I

have in this right right now. 2200 and 37th win of his career

for Junior Alvarado there in the Kentucky Derby.

I think the cool, underrated part of this is talking about

the injury and I think you know it.

It's something we acknowledge and we know about our sport that

it is. It's high risk.

Yep, it it just is. And and our jocks, you know, we

lost Tyler for the spring, for example, Tyler Gafalon, of

course, who would have been certainly would have had a Derby

mount in this case and we would have figured prominently at

Churchill during that week. Junior gets back and he mentions

that Bill Mott says, Hey, just get right.

It's waiting for you when you get back.

And just the Peace of Mind of that because Can you imagine,

you ride this horse of the Holy Bull or whatever, the front of

you, whatever, and he's off the bench cold.

He runs the race that he does. And then you get hurt and you

think, my God, I might miss out on this horse.

Yeah. Can you imagine?

So that story? I love that kind of stuff where

Bill Mott's like, yeah, no, no, this is a partnership.

We're going to you get better buddy, and we're going to

figure. It out when you heard that in

Banahan's interview as well when he was talking about Ma and the

loyalty that Ma has where you've had so many people in his

operation that have been with him for decades at this point.

And so you know for him to give Junior that Peace of Mind Junior

didn't have to sit back and worry about it.

I remember I actually talked to Junior the day morning before

Sovereignty's last breeze. He.

Would not be the first jock to lose a Derby mouth.

No, he would not at all. No.

So this is this is a legit concern on his end, yes.

But I talked to him the morning before his last breeze.

He was standing by the stand and I was asking him about that.

And he said the same thing. Like I never, I never felt

concerned that I wasn't going to be in the Derby because that was

just the confidence that Matt gave me was the fact that, you

know, he told me that this is my horse.

I'm going to be able to get back on him.

And, you know, there's probably that first moment when he

realized he was injured. That was probably one of his

first thoughts in his mind. Oh no, I'm not going to be able

to write sovereignty because that was the week of the Ford

Derby. So it was right on top.

He's already named a ride in that race.

He had to get replaced in that race.

Depending on what the injury was like Tyler, for example, he

would, because Tyler got hurt that week as well.

He might not have made the Derby depending on how bad the injury

was. So the fact that it was an

injury that he could be back in time to ride this race.

He didn't lose the mount. And then on top of that, he

comes back and rides a perfect race here, perfect stocking

trip, keeping an eye on journalism, keeping an eye on

where Sandman was on his outside.

He knew that those were probably the two horses he had to worry

about about the most. And he played it perfectly, got

the perfect and getting him to the rail by the time they hit

the finish line the first time from all the way out.

And I guess it ended up being post 16 with with the two

scratches. But for not 17.

He lucked out that he got out of the 17 but.

Did you kind of wish he had stayed in the 17?

And won. Well, he wouldn't have won, but

he thought. It would be done with it.

Well, he it wouldn't have happened.

Journalism would have ended up holding on if he was on 17.

But but so, but the perfect ride for him to get him down on the

rail would have been I mean, that was I mean, we saw Brian

Hernandez have that perfect rail skimming ride last year.

I think junior, it was definitely a different trip this

year because the post position and everything, but I think

junior, he gave a classic Derby ride here.

Reminiscent of Orb, frankly, in 2013, right?

Very similar sort. Wetter, wetter this Saturday

than it was for Orb, but a lot of moisture in the track for

Orb. Had to make that wide run on the

final turn. Sovereignty just put all the

pieces together there. You brought up Brian Hernandez

junior and I, I wrote last year after the Derby that what

happened between the Oaks and the Derby for Brian is it's

amended his status as a top jockey in our in our sport in

North America period. Conversation over.

There's no debating if you win those two races back-to-back.

I don't care how good your horses are, that's you showing

on a on a global stage how great you are.

Highest pressure moments that you could be in our sport.

Million and a half dollar race, $5,000,000 race, perfect trips

in both. Yeah.

Did junior do that this weekend? Does this cement him as one of

the top top or was he already there?

Where does Sean Collins kind of play him?

Because for me, this was to be more confirmation of his, of

his. Quality, I agree, because I

mean, we've, I, I feel like he's one of those guys he never gets

the credit for being that might be one of the top jockeys.

I mean, he just won the Saudi Cup last year with Senor

Abuscador, a long shot. He's, you know, we saw him all

those great. Collector on in in the Pegasus.

Art collector in the Pegasus, all those great rides on Cody's

wish, you know, all those, all those big races that he's

running recently and he never, he never gets the credit of the

Ortiz brothers or, or Prod or, you know, any of those guys.

But he always, I mean, you see him in, it's not a surprise when

you see him in the winner's circle these big races because

you're like, Oh yeah, junior can ride these races and he can win

these races. And you give him a horse where

he can work his magic on, like sovereignty, he's going to do

it. Let's bring out our friend Frank

Angst from Blood Horse, of course, and from bloodhorse.com.

He's the editor there and he joins us as he does most Mondays

here on Blood Horse Monday. Wanted to get his thoughts here

on the BH feature, the old Blood Horse feature.

Frank, welcome in happy end of Derby.

How you feel? Did you get a nap in yesterday?

How? Did you do?

Sovereignty was my second pick. I said I had journalism and so I

had to exact it, but there. You go.

That's pretty. Cool, so I had a few backups but

not as well as I would have done with journalism.

But Sovereignty made a heck of a lot of sense.

I mean, he's it's the second time it seems like if the

Florida Derby winner doesn't make the Derby get on the

Florida Derby runner up because it's happened twice.

The last two times it's happened, that's been the

winner. But you know, Sovereignty, I'm

thrilled for all the people that that got to see Sovereignty this

weekend because Sean and I and yourself, Louis, we've seen him

in the mornings and he looks like a darn 5 year old.

I mean, he's so impressive person.

I mean, he just a terrific horse for the eye and a terrific horse

to watch around. So it was a great Derby and

terrific ratings on NBC, and we'd love to see some of these

top horses come back in the Preakness because the interest

was there and it's the horses like these that generate that

interest. And if that can carry in a

Preakness, that would be great for the whole sport.

Yeah, you mentioned the number on NBC, highest in about 1/4

century, frankly, Frank, the highest for NBC ever since

they've started covering the Derby.

Do you think that's something horse racing could parlay moving

forward? Does it require a couple horses

to go to the Preakness, or is is maybe horse racing just becoming

more part of that NBC zeitgeist? But I think a couple of things

are going on, Louis. And one is it's a terrific crop

of horses. It's terrific stories tied to

these horses. So that that's a great starting

point for now. But I also think bigger picture

that I think people have seen what the sport has done on the

safety end. It's put a lot of investment in

time, millions of dollars. You guys were talking about the

track and we, we did have one injury Saturday early on the

card, but the track was in great shape all week.

Trainers have just put safety at the forefront.

We have a regulatory system in place.

It's top notch now. I think people have noticed, you

know, you don't have to be turned off by racing as, as a

percentage of people were previously.

And then you have a day like this and it you can really build

on it. And as we've caught, we didn't

even talk about the older horses that were in action, you know,

Raging Sea, just putting on a show to knock off the horse of

the year. We had fierceness coming back.

A champion at 2 is still racing and and doing terrific things.

He's probably at will be at the top of the overall list.

I would this week I would think mind frame bounce back is Todd

Pletcher had a huge weekend. So it's really great to see on a

lot of fronts, really encouraging.

I gotta say, one of the things that that I wasn't ready for was

this was there was no real spotlight on Bob Baffert being

back. It seemed.

It seemed almost like he was there and he was supposed to be

there. It wasn't made into a big deal.

And the other part was his horse wasn't really part of the

equation and it was still a huge number.

So I was very encouraged by that as well.

And I'll say this, Frank, I think for especially people, you

know, say it's Sean's generation, your your generation

has something very cool that I'm very jealous of, which is you

don't care about stuff, you care about experiences.

Yeah, right. And horse racing's inexperience.

And, and I think we have a chance, you know, with days like

this, Frank, to build something where especially younger people

seeing the environment, maybe they think, you know what, maybe

I'm going to go check Pimlico out and go to a Preakness or

whatever it might be, you know, something that's a little more

accessible. Maybe they check out a regional

Derby wherever they live, something like that.

But I'm hopeful that we could build on these these big days

and show that the track is an event, right?

It's a, it's an experience to go.

And so hopefully people will start to pick up on that as

well. Yeah, for sure, for sure.

And then it's right now my What's Going on Here column for

the magazine and I just just had to document what's going on with

Good Dolphin this weekend. I mean, it's arguably the

greatest weekend and owners ever had in racing, quite frankly.

I mean, they wouldn't. Great point.

They take the Kentucky Oaks on Friday with good, undefeated,

good cheer at that. What She would be in the top ten

or three-year olds. That's pretty.

We all know that. But.

Yeah. And And then it's 17 hours later

they win the 2000 Guineas with Ruling Court.

Few hours after that they take the Kentucky Derby with

sovereignty. And then about another 17 hours

after that they win the 1000 Guineas with Desert Flower.

And it's just, they've just put a lot into it.

And I heard what you were saying earlier about competitive

balance. And I'll be cliche.

There's a reason it's called the sport of kings there.

There's no salary cap. There's there's no luxury tax if

you have a passion and want to put a significant, significant

amount of money into this. But beyond that with Godolphin,

a significant amount of time. These are broodmare families

that they've developed generation after generation

after generation. I mean, they're, they're not

purchasing as many horses as they used to because they don't

have to. They've really, they put the

money in years ago and and they still put some money in it

sales, don't get me wrong, but it's not what it used to be as a

percentage. And now we just see these

terrific broodmares producing year after year.

So, you know, when racing has an underdog story, let's appreciate

it, which I think everybody does.

And, and those come along. We, we, we, I very much remember

Rich Strike. It hasn't been that long.

And, and there's many beyond that, you know, Cold Battle and

the terrific things he's done this year.

So we have those stories. But you know it it is a sport

that it rewards the people that put the most into it and and

have the resources to do it. You know, it's interesting that

you bring this up, Frank, because Godolphin does talk

about their, their operation, like the Irish talk about

bloodlines in their, you know, in their, in their runners and

those kinds of things. Godolphin very much talks like

that. And of course, Banahan coming

from, you know, the, the aisles over there for sure, you get a

sense that he's kind of the perfect person for what they

want to do as far as keeping those bloodlines intact.

You talk about broodmare families and I you're totally

right about this, by the way. Where?

That takes time. That's a significant,

significant investment not just in in resources, but in time.

Like Frank mentioned it. It's it's interesting to watch

how all of those dynamics did all come together all around the

world for a weekend. It was a remarkable thing to

watch. And the, the other thing that I,

that I have to note, which we touched on a few weeks ago is I

wrote about it in my dollars and cents column that I really

didn't think the tweak this year to the Derby point system that

took away qualifying points. If the field was too small, was

smaller than six horses, they got docked points.

And the, the reality of it was Baeza's connections had to, had

to really sweat out getting in the race.

And I, I think maybe the Derby gods maybe sent a reminder to

tweak that again, because the Santa Anita Derby winner on 2nd

and Baeza runs third. So I think going in, you know,

well going in the Santa Anita Derby featured the top 2 ranked

horses at that point. It was Citizen bull in

journalism, Citizen bull being a champion and Baeza gets second

in the Santa Anita Derby. That that should put you in the

Kentucky Derby. So I, I hope Churchill either

gets rid of that all together or the other alternative I I like

is if, if they really want to, you know, reduce the amount of

points that go toward short fields, just take it off the

back end. Don't, don't award 5th place.

Maybe don't award 4th place. But you know, Baeza was nearly

he nearly lost out on a classic placing because he wasn't given

the opportunity. He had to have some horses

removed from consideration and scratch to get in.

So, you know, I, I love that Churchill tries different things

a little bit different every year, but I, I hope on this one

they they change it again. They do seem pliable at least I

agree, Frank. So hopefully, yeah, there's I'm

sure the conversations are constantly ongoing about the

best way to go about it. Well, Sean's, I'm sure already

looking forward to September in the Iroquois and all those

things, but. We're already starting to look

for options at the Iroquois. That's let me make my prediction

for Nitro Tap. There it is, Nitro Tap song.

And as you said, Louis Early, Brad Cox brought up some maybe

tweaking some points to where Phillies can get in there,

qualify for the race. I I know, you know, talking with

people off the record. I know that's been considered

over the years. So obviously it hasn't happened

yet. But it it, I mean the Derby is

it definitely draws more interest when a Philly's in the

race. It really does.

That is an absolute. That's a true fact, yes.

Listening to Brad continue his thought that evening, I I don't

think good cheer was ever really going to be that hoarse.

But but they do come along. And yeah, I mean, currently for

a Philly to get in, the problem with the Philly getting in under

the current system is they really have to, to me, if I had

a top Philly, you really would have to commit to it in those

second last Corona races. So the 50 point to the winter

races and and that's kind of early in the season at that

point, like you, you still want to win the, the Rachel Alexandra

on the Philly side or the corresponding races of that

level because you're not fully in on the oak side yet.

And then if, if you were to wait, you know, like winning

colors when the Santa Anita Derby, if if you were to wait

for that round of races and it doesn't work out and your Philly

runs 5th or 6th. Now you got some questions to

answer when you're going into the Oaks.

So I, I do think it's asking a lot of horsemen and connections

under the current system to get in.

I think it's a little bit unreasonable.

So yeah, I, I would like to see if, if maybe there's some

possibility on that side to open up a, a different way.

As Brad said, maybe you get maybe your Oaks point count

points count is half as much on the Derby side, something like

that. And Churchill wants to limit it.

Maybe it's just the top Philly. And if that Philly doesn't want

to do it, they go on down the list.

That's what they do for the Japan road and the European

Middle Middle East Rd. So yeah.

Yeah. And, and in that case, if, if

the horse needed to qualify based on points, you could then

run in 100 point race knowing it's worth 50 points for the

Derby trail as well, right? And then you don't have to hurt

the confidence of the of the Philly, right in that case,

right? Yeah, that's the whole thing is

you're just forcing that decision either really early or

really late. And that's I can see where it'd

be a tough call when you when you have a terrific Philly, it's

sort of asking you to make that call early.

Like the the way it's set up now, you know, for the horses

that that runt that that have already shown an affinity for

the synthetic, you can get in by by running well and the Jeff

Ruby and then you take your shot on dirt in the Kentucky Derby.

So that would be kind of maybe a similar set up for the Phillies.

You you get your way in and then you take your shot on Derby day.

I mean, all that said, on the other hand, I mean are Philly

winners that have won the Kentucky Derby.

You have, I don't know if it's all of them, but quite a few of

them face males before Derby day.

So it's been done, but you know, racing has changed quite a bit

too. You, you, it's so you only get

two or three shots to get points in a lot of ways.

So if you burn one of them and it doesn't work out, all of a

sudden you're kind of up against it.

It does seem like the preferred route is go win the Oaks and

then figure out if you want to try the Preakness of the

Belmont. So like with the next door with

a Rachel or something like that or a Swiss skydiver, what have

you. It's it's interesting to watch

the I hate to use this term, but the jockeying after that race to

try to figure out what they're going to do.

I'm with you, Frank. I think the Oaks, you know, you

heard Banahan after that, you know, you get, oh darn, had to

do 2 press conferences this weekend, but you heard of it.

That Oaks press conference essentially say that wasn't what

we were thinking of with this horse, right?

With this Philly, we were thinking Oaks the whole time and

he was pretty fervent about that.

And frankly, even moving forward, we're going to see her

in the acorn, is essentially what I heard from him on

Saturday. Yeah, I don't think we're going

to see her in the final two classics and and you know,

actually that brings up another little point.

So, so good Dolphin. They win those four races.

The Kentucky Oaks technically isn't a classic.

I think we're going to make it a mission at Blood Horse to get

that changed because it's just sort of a weird set of

circumstances that has led to that.

Basically, other countries have Triple Crowns for males and for

Phillies, while the US doesn't have that.

So there's no real, so like Britain, when they turn in, when

their racing jurisdiction turns in what, what are the classics?

They define those because it's 1 country, whereas the US is state

to state. So Kentucky can't really say

this is the classic, you know, without agreement from others.

But boy, I, I really think, I think we have two Philly

classics in the country currently, the Kentucky Oaks and

the Alabama. I think those are our two

classics, even though they're not technically classics under

the international Cataloguing and standards book All.

Right. Well, he's Frank Gangsta.

What should we be looking for in the?

Of course we want people to sign.

Up. Yeah, just, I mean, obviously

the June issue will be our Kentucky Derby coverage, so that

that'll be 1 to look for and it'll have all the all the

races, all the photos and terrific recaps and stories for

sure. There you go.

All right, well, he's Frank Hanks, Blood Horse and

bloodhorse.com. Go check out all of the great

Derby recap coverage over there on the website as well.

Frank, we appreciate you. Talk to you next week.

Thanks guys. There you.

Go of course, we encourage you to go check out Blood Horse

Magazine QR code right there at the bottom of the screen if you

happen to be watching us there on if you happen to be there on

screen at YouTube, you can go ahead and click on the QR code

there. Of course, Blood Horse magazine

get that delivered to your house.

Make your coffee table look nice and fresh.

There you go. But we last connection of the

Kentucky Derby winning connections here that we have

not talked about is Bill Mott, trainer Bill Mott.

Something that we talked about earlier in the show, of course,

is Country House gets it by a disqualification in 2019, of

course, but gets to watch his horse cross the finish line

first here. Very, very different experience

here. Certainly he's been in the

winner's circle before, but this one's got to feel a little

different. Here's your time with him

yesterday at the Barnes at Churchill Downs.

I'm here with Hall of Fame trainer Bill Mott the day after

winning the Kentucky Derby with Sovereignty.

It's still raining here at Churchill Downs, but something

tells me you're starting to like that weather, having two wins in

the rain in the Derby. Well, it it, it feels like it's

a sunny day today. I I know, you know, we're not,

we're not Hanford by the rain. We weren't.

We weren't yesterday during the race and and right now we're

feeling pretty good about it. Let's take me through that

moment of watching him come down the stretch and ending up

winning the race. Well, I think I was very silent

until they'd crossed the wire. I think I was, you know, you

know, watching a moment that maybe I was even wondering

whether it was really happening. And there was a lot of

celebration after he, after he hit the wire and, and really a

very, very emotional, emotional feeling.

You mentioned yesterday at the press conference your first

Kentucky Derby experience, listening to Proud Clarion win

the race all the way back in 1967.

Just kind of take us through your thoughts in that moment.

And I'm thinking about the fact that you're here winning the

race like this. Well, back then, I mean, it was

only a dream. I didn't had never been to

Churchill Downs or probably never even been to Kentucky and

couldn't even, you know, I was just kidding.

I was 14 years old and just getting started and in horse

racing and, and on a very minor circuit and, you know, listening

to the Derby and the call of the Derby.

And I, I, I just never even imagined that I would ever set

foot at Churchill Downs. And the way things have happened

since then, you know, being a regular here and, and actually

I've been in, in the barn we're standing in right now.

I've been here for over 45 years.

So it, it was like something that wasn't even a dream or even

a thought. It's it's just pretty special.

That you've won so many big races across the world in your

career and you did win the Derby a few years ago by

disqualification, but how big of a, you know, an item was it on

your bucket list just to have that experience of winning this

race? So it it it.

It, it feeds into it that you want to come back.

You know, you want to come back and you want to do it, you know,

by finishing first. And that happened yesterday and

you know that. So that's another dream come

true. How did he come out of the race?

I know there was some bumping kind of in the early stages of

the race. He got scraped up a little bit.

Can you just give us an update on how he's doing and your

thoughts on the Preakness? Overall, he's doing very well.

I mean his appetite is good, He feels good.

He you know, he jogged good and legs look good.

Apart from, you know, the he he did take get a little scrape on

his right front pasture and from another horse, I think and I

believe it probably happened leaving the gate.

But I think it's, you know, something that we consider

minor. Well, congratulations on winning

the Kentucky Derby here Bill, and best of luck with the rest

of this horses career. OK.

Thank you very much. All right.

Bill Mott with our guy of course John Collins here completely

ignored your question about the Preakness.

That's all right. We had Van Hand answer that one

so. Which is spectacular.

But look, I appreciate the candor of these guys saying,

yeah, I wanted to horse cross the line first.

Yeah, great. I appreciate that very much.

One of the things I really took away, both from the press

conference right after the race, the press conference in the

morning and then that interview as well.

As you know, Bill Mott has won pretty much every big race that

there is. He's been in this game for a

long time. He's had such fantastic horses

over the years and you could still see, you know, winning the

Kentucky Derby, just a smile that was on his face the whole

time. You can still see how much this

meant to him. It's like no matter how many big

races that he's won, having won the Derby before via

disqualification, you could see that this really still meant a

lot to him. The fact that he now has that

moment. He had that experience of

watching his horse make the move, hit the wire 1st and felt

that enjoyment. It was probably unlike any

other. No matter how many other races

he's won, it was probably unlike any other race he's ever won

before. And so it was cool seeing

somebody that's been in the Hall of Fame for so many years.

It's had so many great horses still have that kind of reaction

to winning this race that just shows you the power of the

Derby, the. Derby is quite powerful.

Are you going to be OK now that it's over?

I will be temporarily for at least two weeks until the

Preakness and then. Whether sadness descends.

Yeah, well, usually the sadness starts descending once the

Triple Crown is off the table. So if sovereignty wins, that's

the joy will extend another three weeks.

If he doesn't win or doesn't run, then the sadness will hit a

little earlier. So.

Well, here's the hoping. Several things.

Here's the hoping the 19 of them came out Well, yes, here's the

hoping that many of them are well enough that they'd like to

run in Pimlico. And here's the hoping that the

Belmont's awesome, too. Yes, how about that?

I think we're going to get. By the way, I think the air

cordon's going to set up actually really interestingly as

well. Yes, and the Belmont looks like

it's setting up to have a pretty good feel.

The Preakness looks like even from.

How good is the met mile going to be?

We didn't talk about those other part races.

What if we get fierceness and mind frame and and and and and

and in that met mile? We're in for an exciting five

weeks of race, I can tell you that.

This is this is where all of me being a little too excited about

the four year olds coming back is going to be totally right.

Yes, I'm going to feel very good about it at that point a long

time ago again. Hey, go subscribe right now to

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And of course, sign up at bloodhorse.com under daily.

We'd love to have you as part of what we do every single day here

at Blood Horse. And of course, on the screen

right now, that QR code for Blood Horse magazine.

Yeah, it's, it's beautiful people.

That's all I can say. Photographers at Blood Horse,

just amongst the very best in the world at what they do.

So go get that. Checked and you're gonna wanna

make sure you subscribe now, so in June you can get all the

Derby information, all the pictures from the Derby,

everything in that June magazine.

Sean will sign it for you if you sign up.

Yeah, bring it to me at the bring it to me.

If you see me at the track, I'll sign it for you.

By the way, we're gonna start a a new partnership this next

Monday. We're gonna be up in Horseshoe

Indianapolis. We're gonna be up there a couple

times this year. Really excited to do this.

If your track would like us to be there, hit us up.

We'd love to hear from you here at Blood Horse Monday.

We'd love to be part of your program for sure.

Excited to get up there, see Tammy and Eric and Rachel and

Brian and all the good people up there.

Just southeast of Indianapolis will be up there later in the

year ahead of the Grade 3 Indiana Derby, Grade 3 Indiana

Oaks as well. It should be a lot of fun.

I'm really looking forward to that partnership as well.

But for Sean, I'm Louis. It's time to get into Preakness

season. My goodness already I got 8

hours of sleep today. That was that's the most I've

had and over a month. Really proud of you by that.

I felt good. All right.

Well, he shot Collins. I'm Lou, your bow.

This has been BLOOD HORSE Monday.

We'll chat. We'll catch you next week.

We'll be at Horseshoe Indianapolis.

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