BloodHorse Monday 6/23/25

Ah yes, no Sean, no problem. It is Blood Horse Monday for the

23rd of June in 2025 alongside Frank Angst here amongst many of

the delicious and delightful books of a Blood Horse fame.

How many do you think you've read of these books behind us,

Frank? Oh, at least 47.

An oddly specific number to open the show he's frank eggs lawyer

about hanging out with you as we do every single Monday here at

blood horse 6 to start your racing week with us.

We start with a bit of melancholy news that a man that

we, at least in my case, I just kind of assumed would be in

training forever and working forever and I was always be able

to go to his barn and say, hey, in Wayne Lucas, Dewayne Lucas,

of course, the Hall of Fame are in multiple horse racing halls

of fame, not just in thoroughbreds, but certainly

with quarter horses as well, is stepping away from racing

permanently because of health issues and also probably at

least a little bit because he's 89.

And eventually Father Tom catches up with all of us.

Frank, all of us have a Lucas story.

All of us have that. But certainly the effect on the

sport we taught coaching trees and all of these other sports,

his is as good as it gets in North American sports.

As far as as trainer tree, I guess we could call it that for

this conversation. But melancholy news for sure.

But the influence is forever. I mean, the influence is there

for sure. I mean, he's really for good,

good and bad. I mean, however you want to view

it. And I'm not saying I'm just

saying from a racing side to super trainers, there's some

good and bad with that. And he kind of started that Jack

Van Berg, you know, a little bit, but then Wayne kind of took

it to even a higher level. And and that's kind of the

direction the sport is gone for sure.

But boy, that I just always start with that stretch in the

90s when he won six straight Triple Crown races.

And it could have been 9 almost, as Editor's Note won the Belmont

after Wayne took a break in the Preakness.

What do you, I mean, what is his accomplishment?

Is it is it the legacy of guys like Pletcher and Maker and

those sorts of guys? Is it the horses that you have

in front of you when you have, I mean, just world champion after

World champion, winning those Breeders' Cup races, winning,

you know, Philly, winning the Derby?

What's what's the lasting? What's the lasting part of his

legacy, you think? I mean, I think the legacy is

that national approach to training.

It's probably the biggest legacy.

But but the success, I mean, it's, it's amazing.

It was just one of the most amazing runs we've ever seen in

horse racing. And, you know, runs like that

previously were stable trainers, you know, but train for Calumet

or what have you. Whereas Wayne had brought in a

bunch of different owners, brought together different

owners and had a lot of success for a lot of different owners.

So really got the job done for a lot of different people that,

that we're looking to have success in this industry.

I, I think one of his other legacies too, is, and this one

hasn't stuck around as much and it's more moved into a train to

get ready for the big race. Wayne Wayne definitely raced his

horses. These horses were out there

running and he continued that approach.

And I think it's part of the reason that he's mystified

handicappers over the years. Wayne was not afraid to move

forward. He wasn't afraid to cross off an

effort, or maybe he kind of knew all along that that effort was

just really to get ready for the next race.

But I mean, he did it a number of times, you know, thumb

Thunder Gulch. I I, I, I call him the biggest

overlay in Derby history. The horse wins the Florida

Derby, then runs 4th on a track that really did him no favors at

Keeneland comes back and wins the Kentucky Derby at 25 to one

that those are kind of I mean you just it's it's just amazing

to think Wayne Lucas Gary Stevens Thunder Gulch Florida

Derby winner. It's hard to believe that those

connections went off at 25 to one always amazes me.

But you know he he won the Derby with a Philly also and they're

not afraid to take a chance in that he ran many of his top

Phillies faced males and winning colors was his first Derby

winner. Grindstone comes in there and

wins and also horse that raced a lot before the Derby and that,

and then he wins the Derby with a cleaning horse and charismatic

horse that they ran in a maiden claimer and didn't get claimed

as it turned out, was very. Advantageous non claim, correct.

Yeah. But even, you know, I'll

remember, you know, after Secret oath wins the Oaks a couple of

years ago. That was one of the the

unbelievable Bose risk press conferences when we get

together. Just his his sense of humor.

But you said something there. He's just he wasn't afraid.

I remember Sean and I, you know, on this program a couple weeks

ago Sunday before Preakness sat down with him.

You can go back and watch that episode.

We asked him why he was going to the Preakness.

He said, this is my best 3 year old.

This is what you do. You go to the Preakness.

And like you said, and I think we appreciate the guys who have

a similar training style to him in the modern era east of the

Rockies. I think of a guy like Kenny

Mcpeak running his horses into shape rather than training them

up for the races like that. Like you talked about, they'll

go kneel out West comes to mind with those as well.

Like hey, no, this horse is in form.

We're going to give it a try. Why not us as of course the barn

moniker out there. I think Lucas's mindset, while

those guys aren't necessarily directly in his lineage, it does

it does strike with some people as well.

And, and Wayne was always, he's always been willing to share his

opinion and he gets hopefully feeling a little better here.

I'm sure he'll continue to do that as much, as much as he can.

He's facing some real medical issues to be sure.

But he's a guy that over the years that really any issue that

needed weighing in on, I I could call the guy and and he would

have an opinion. Of course.

I'd agree with some, most of them.

I didn't agree with all of them. But you know, he, he was going

to put it out there and he was very much understood the the

weight that his opinion carried and and it was well thought out

and people could read that and see what they think, you know,

let let the debate play out. We talked with him too, and

something that stuck with me during our interview on this

show, we asked about Nick Juarez and we asked about Jaime Torres

last year. These young jockeys getting

these huge stages, these huge opportunities and he just looked

at us and he said, guys, that's why they call me the coach.

I'm willing to work with young people.

I'm willing to, you know, bring guys along and and I and I hope

that that's legitimately at the end of the day, his horse racing

legacy is give the next person a shot, right, Whether it's in

this medium, whether it's at the track, whatever it is, give the

next person a shot because Lucas did that as well as anyone that

I can remember. He really did.

Yeah, and, and I mean, he's done it both ways.

I mean, in the night, he says. Pat Ding here.

Fair enough. Yeah.

Terrific story on on him basically talking Gary and the

coming back. I think Japan, possibly Hong

Kong, I think it was Japan came came all the way back to to

riding this Derby on Thunder Gulch as we referenced earlier.

Yeah, incredible stuff. And so all the best of Wayne.

Hopefully some some healing coming here after a hospital

stay for sure. I am also looking around here at

his profile and I did a little bit on him this morning on my

radio show. Frank, between him and his top

three in his lineage, a billion, a billion in earnings.

You talk about those kinds of numbers.

Sometimes the numbers just. Tell the story.

They really do. That's an easy one.

That's an easy story to tell, Frank.

Yeah, but with Pletcher, with Mike Maker, with those things,

just an incredible, incredible thing.

We call it the Lucas Gap at Churchill Downs, right?

That barn 44, we know exactly where that is.

All of those things. We see Baznickel taking over the

operation there. There was already a plan in

place. You know, Frank, it's a reminder

the last month or so with the untimely and unfortunate passing

of Christophe Lamont now with Wayne needing to leave training

that boy, you got to have plans in place.

You got to have contingencies. You got to have these things.

Both men obviously did. Yeah, I mean, Wayne is

celebrated for his planning, for his attention to detail.

So it's not super surprising if I had to plan employees for

sure. So hopefully all the best of the

folks over at that barn. I am positive that they showed

up this morning and the horses probably knew that Wayne wasn't

there, but certainly didn't know any difference in their their

morning routines there at Churchill Downs.

We'll speak with Brooke Smith in a minute here.

He's one of the owners of Sierra Leone leading into the Stephen

Foster this weekend. We'll also talk Breeders' Cup

later, Alma John KET, who's the COO, their trips to Keeneland

and Belmont. Coming up, we'll ask that New

York guy about the trip to New York.

And of course, we'll close the show with Thoroughbred owners of

California after a very positive meet there at Santa Anita.

Bill Nader will join us from that spot.

But hey, Blood Horse Monday this week is presented by FanDuel

Racing. Download the app right now and

bet today with FanDuel Racing. Appreciate them jumping on with

us. I guess for.

A few weeks. Making our California listeners

go to the very, very end. It's something like that, yes.

That is a nice market for us, though we do appreciate.

Our We appreciate it. That's why California.

You know you can skip ahead in these in these podcasts.

You shouldn't do that on this show, never.

But you know you can do that. You could miss a lot.

Though you could miss a lot, that's exactly right.

But we talked with John about these, you know, these winning

ends in the Breeders Cup and you know, that's the sort of thing

people can look forward to in this.

But a a guy who's going to have one of those horses is Brooke

Smith. And you know, we saw him, if you

saw our episode right before the Derby on Monday with Kelly,

Francoise, Shawn and me. Of course, we interviewed Brooke

at the draw and and I asked him, you know, do you get tired of

coming to this thing? He said, no.

I said, all right, we'll see you next year then, you know, that

kind of thing. So we'll bring Brooke in now.

Rocket ship racing, all the good things joins us here on Blood

Horse Monday. I mean also has more hair right

now than I've had my entire life put together.

Bro how are you man? Great.

How you guys can you hear me OK? You sound great you and you look

great too. I don't like it.

All right, so look man, back to the track this weekend.

You got to be pumped, man, to see Sierra Leone back at a spot

where part of one of the great three-way photo finishes in

horse racing history. Yeah, it's an exciting weekend

coming up. It'll be great to see him, you

know, back really kind of in it with I guess the start to a

campaign that hopefully ends in the classic again.

We got a lot of ground to cover when we decided to keep him

racing and in training. We kind of worked back and

that's one thing Chad said. He said, look, let's just work

back from the classic, be patient.

He had the one race in New Orleans, which was fine.

And he's training magnificently. You know, it's tough to ask a

horse to cut off the shelf and jump right into a grade one

against horses that are, you know, racing and winning.

But if, if one horse is capable of it, even though it's a mile

and an eighth, I think he would be, you know, one that you could

make a case for. Can we go back something you

mentioned there the, the decision to keep him in racing,

What goes into that? How many people are involved in

that kind of decision and, and what what is the, how do you

arrive at that outcome? Well, like I've always said, for

me to open my mouth in the audience with which I own Sierra

Leone and a few other horses would be foolish.

I've been foolish. I just don't want to be a fool.

So they definitely know what's up.

They thought long and hard about it.

But normally he would probably be, you know, be at the breeding

shed. He may have already had gone

through a, a round of it, but he's, he's just the horse that

if you were going to make the decision to go on with you would

again, I knock on wood as I say this, but he's he's always been

together, you know, maybe a little nagging this or that, but

nothing of any consequence. And you know, the way he's

trained up to this race, I think it makes sense.

Plus he's an exciting horse. The way he races.

He's good for horse racing. I can't wait to watch, you know,

him the race, the races that he's in again, as a racing fan.

So I really respect the fact that the lads decided to to keep

him going. Hey, Brooke, it's Frank Angst.

Is there a feeling that he's back on track after Louisiana?

Just a kind of an uncharacteristic run there for

him. Yeah, I don't, you know, again,

he he, you know, he kind of came off the shelf.

He likes that track. Obviously he won the Risen Star.

There it was. It was a mile an eighth.

There was a lot of speed in the race, but that touch upon A star

just ran probably one of the best races of the year, if not

the best race, except for some of the bigger stakes.

It kind of ran into to to that horse and and Hall of Fame was

on it, you know, had been training.

He ran 103 buyer I think is what they gave him, which is

respectable. So I don't think that there was

really anything wrong maybe or right with that race.

He just came back. He ran a solid effort and then

we decided just to give him a bit more time and get him ready

for the Stephen Foster, which is another bit of a break.

But hopefully he'll run, run really well there.

You know, look, if he runs a competitive second or third and

it's flying at the end, then, you know, that's, I hate to say

that the Stephen Foster is a, you know, building block, but

you know, there's a race to Saratoga that should suit him.

And then that kind of leads into the philosophy of what's work

from the classic back. Yeah, Brooke Smith with us here.

Part of the ownership of Sierra Leone will be in the Grade 1

Stephen Foster this weekend. I've seen comments from other

other folks in your position and ownership about feeling a an

obligation or a duty to horse racing to have a horse like

Sierra Leone in these big spots, in these big races that it is

good for the sport. Do you feel any obligation like

that with Sierra Leone? Yeah, I mean, I guess I do.

Again, I'm I'm not at the top of the tree of decision making, but

I was excited that he was going to continue to race because, you

know, he had a dramatic win in the classic.

You know, it kind of was a a dock connector.

It it connected the body of his work.

Grant, it was tough to watch him lose by a nostril in the Derby,

but you know, that's the Derby. So I think I think people are

going to be excited to watch him race again.

And, you know, whether he comes off the shelf, if he comes off

the shelf and he wins a Stephen Foster, then the conversations

are going to get pretty heated. And the future of him, you know,

headed to the Whitney and then on to the Classic could just be

amazing if he could pull off 1 or a couple of those.

I think he stamps himself as more than just a, you know, a

great horse in a in a year. So, yeah, I, I think it is

important to the sport that we re race these guys.

He was one again, that made sense.

You know, some that maybe have had an injury or two or just

kind of nagging things. You, you know, you don't want to

you don't want to keep pushing them.

And if they look like they're going to be sized and it's their

time. But in his case, again, as a

racing fan, I'm super excited to see this race.

I'm excited he's in it and I'm I'm expecting him to run well.

I guess I don't know if I have an expectation for him to win,

but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

As a part owner and A and a fan, do you have any traditions when

this horse runs or superstitions or?

I am pretty superstitious, to be honest.

When he was running early on my son Mack, who lives in New York,

he gave me some kind of a little marble worried thing that you

rub your thumb on for good luck. And that worked for a couple

races. But then when he started kind of

missing the top spot at Saratoga, we pitched that on the

Junkie. I've had a couple hats that I

felt were lucky. Then after again a couple races,

it didn't seem to quite meet the mustard.

They hit the junk pile. An Irish gal, a friend of mine,

she gave me a lucky coin from Ireland, and that seemed to be

working pretty well. So that'll probably be in my

pocket. You know, it's all about just,

it's, I mean, all these races, you feel that kind of exciting

drip in your stomach, you know, where you're anxious, but you're

excited. We always want them to get

around the course. Well, I don't.

Maybe I should put my underwear on backwards and he'll win.

I Who knows? You heard it here first, folks.

Yeah, there you go. I mean, what he's describing is

just the best experience for an owner and that's what attracts

so many people into the sport. And we appreciate you telling

that story and I'm sure you've brought some owners in.

I hope so. I mean, I'm a big fan of sport.

I've done it for a while. Certainly not this level.

Sierra Leone will probably be the horse of my lifetime.

I'd be shocked if he isn't, but there'll be other great horses.

We have some nice 2 year olds, the Coolmore folks and I and

Chad are, we're excited about a few of those that have just

arrived at Saratoga. So you know, you just never

know, but you know it. There's nothing more exciting

than a than a horse race. Ask even non racing fans what

it's like when the gate opens for the Kentucky Derby, whether

they're hovered around ATV or what have you at some Derby

party, you know, even kids. It's just, I remember as a young

man, I was just super excited about it.

You know, I used to when I was at Churchill Downs and I'd go to

the races every once when I was a kid, I got so over so worked

up. I'd have to go into the bathroom

because I didn't want to watch the race.

And I'd like go in a, a, a, a stall and stick to my fingers in

my ears because I just couldn't stand it.

And I would come running out of the bathroom and I'd be like,

what happened? So yeah, that's that's it's

infectious. Irish coins, bathrooms and

backwards underwear. There you go Frank, there you go

that's the formula, that's it. So the windy that the Breeders

Cup classic man, that's that's. Sounds easy enough, doesn't.

It just done. No big deal.

Yeah, right. I'm.

Really excited. Hopefully he can, you know,

we've given him a ton of time off and he is just just full of

himself, strong, rested. And I think that he's got that

advantage over some of these horses, even though he may need

one to kind of get into the flow.

But he's just going to be, you know, hopefully so sound, so

fit, so comfortable that as he gets into a few of these races,

he'll be still fresh going into the classic.

Not kind of trying to reach for it.

You know, I don't want to lose another $100 bill to Kenny

Mcpeak either. I lost that in the Derby.

I think I asked for $200 this race, but we'll see.

And I want to. Yeah.

So, you know, that's what's, that's what's the beauty of all

this stuff. Well, there you go, Brooke.

I appreciate you. I'm sure I'll run into you on

Saturday, but all the best safe trip, of course, for Sierra

Leone and we'll talk to you next time here on Blood Horse Monday,

buddy. Awesome, thanks for having me

on. All right, Brooke, we'll see

you, buddy. There you go, Brooke Smith, the

guaranteed good time. It really is every time, every

time. There you go.

But that Foster field and it's you know, it's one of the I

think we, you know, if we did a retrospective eventually on

2025, one of the things that we'll talk about is getting back

to that what we used to call the older male handicapped division,

right. Getting back to that, you know,

that two turn dirt classic distance mile and a Dave kind of

braces. I think we'll look back and go,

wow, we were really spoiled that year.

I mean, it's just been a tremendous amount of older

horses this year. It's it's as strong as the older

dirt division of horses has been in a long time.

I mean you, you had the Met Mile horses.

And now it's sort of everybody else that didn't run in the met

my. House running for this one.

And there's enough good horses this year that that there's

there were compelling horses in both for sure.

Yeah, we're going to get 7 in here.

And when you think about perhaps a Mystic Dan being like 8 to 1

on the morning line or maybe a six to one or something like

that, like a Derby winner and a guy coming out of a win, a last

out of the blame, of course, at Churchill or, you know, even a

hit show coming back from the UAE from the Dubai World Cup,

you know, maybe being 6 or 8 to 1, something like that.

Just a heck of a field. Yeah, it's one of those you

figure it out. Yeah, I know this.

I'm going to enjoy watching the race for sure.

That's fantastic. At the back of my head somewhere

I'm sticking with First Mission. Oh, OK.

He struck me as a grade one level horse last year and hasn't

lived up to that yet. But maybe this is the night, the

day they day racing, right? They did the night last week.

That's right, Caribbean night. Are you more of a jerk chicken

guy or rum guy, do you think? I like jerk.

Chicken. I do too.

Yeah, I'm very proud of jerk chicken.

But I was very I got to admit I was.

I was disappointed when I didn't see mind Frame in the Met mile

field, but then once I heard he was in this race, I got over it.

You know that's. That's a chance to keep those

two apart. Well, that's right for the

owner. Shows I'm going to try to win

races and you know, bringing these horses back.

Look at some of the top sires Curlin raced as an older horse,

Gun Runner raced as an older horse.

It was. Terrific.

As an older horse, yes. There's still time to make to do

be very successful at stud and I don't begrudge any any decision

they make. It's for right for the horse.

That's fine. I I get it.

But I I do like that it seems like more owners are are keeping

in mind, hey, we can keep raising them for another year

and and still have success as a sire.

That's why I wanted to ask Brooke that question was, you

know, because I'm, I'm positive a million things go into that

decision. And it is interesting to hear

some of the owners talk about duty to the sport or to the, you

know, to the horse player, what have you.

Because I, I would not feel that way.

I don't think I would. I would certainly be looking up

for my operation. No, I think that's right.

I'm not kidding. But you'd be looking up your

operation. A horse like Sierra Leone can

set you up forever, right? I mean, you really can.

And so I, I understand that as well.

But I also love that included in this field is a horse like

Skippy Longstocking. This is his 33rd start.

He was just out wins the Gold Cup at Santa Anita.

We've seen him already this year alone at Gulfstream, Tampa, Oak

Lawn, Santa Anita. This will be his fifth track and

5th race. 5 races he's a throwback for.

Sure. Yeah, that's for sure.

Yeah. Really excited to see him there

as well. And a son of Exaggerator.

Sometimes you can get a $5000 stud for you to do OK too with

the. So let's let's go ahead.

We're going to, we're going to hear now from John Kett, who is

the COO of Breeders' Cup. We're going to talk a little bit

about future sites with him coming back to Keeneland here in

central Kentucky, going to the big city in New York after that,

I won't lie, as a as a guy who lives in this part of the

country, I don't hate the trips to California.

It's been great actually. I love that.

A little ocean time, a little restaurant time.

It's something, it's pretty different, but it's fun too

because you know, I, I have found the Breeders Cup in

Delmar, the Breeders Cup of Keeneland, similar feels because

of what the tracks are. And so it's nice to know that

we're going to be doing that intermixed with a bigger track

like the Great Race Place at Santa Anita or a place like

Belmont. Park, yeah, that's a good mix

for sure. I mean, Keeneland has that added

benefit of being so important to the breeding industry that the

capital of that. But then, yeah, Delmar is just

one of those boutique meats. Everybody loves to go to the

area. So many nice restaurants, places

to hang out, you know? I know even with weather in

Kentucky, I, I still think of Keeneland, Delmar, Santa Anita,

even, you know, Long Island, are those tracks, I think of those

as places having great turf courses too, right?

And so certainly for Breeders' Cup, when you're trying to

attract those folks from overseas, we know Keeneland does

that, right, with QE 2 and different races that happen

here. It's nice to see those races

being emphasized in the way that they are certainly in California

as well. All right, so here is John

Kennedy's, the CEO of Breeders' Cup on those future sites.

All right. And we're pleased to welcome in

the COO of the Breeders Cup. His name is Jon Cat joins us

here from the Blood Horse. I, I don't even know the

conference room, studios, whatever we're calling it these

days here at Blood Horse, Jon's old stomping grounds.

How about that, Jon? Thanks for joining us here on

Blood Horse Monday. I look forward to talking to

you. Yeah, there you go.

All right. Well, exciting announcements

around the Breeders Cup and future sites and those sorts of

things. Wanted to get into that with you

for sure. But three straight years on the

West Coast is this, come on, admits this is a weather

decision. Is that what we're doing?

No, I mean, you know, we're very supportive of California racing.

It's been challenged of late. The venues are magnificent, the

group at Del Mar are really terrific.

Chance to go back for a second year in a row is unusual for us,

but what we're trying to do is really double and triple down on

the experience and try new things and make this even more

of a unique international gathering.

So we were able to experiment with some new things last year.

Most of them were very well received, so now we're going to

be able to build on those and to get to go back.

The weather is quite useful, I'll have to admit.

People love going out there. The other thing about while it's

in near San Diego, Del Mar is a much smaller area and the the

people who live there have been so welcoming and so

enthusiastic. It's a little bit like coming to

Lexington and Keeneland. You've got a really built in

Group and they're very supportive.

So for us to go back to show our support for California racing,

which is so important for the industry, it was a it was a

good, I think it was a very well timed move and we're excited to

be going back. And the recent announcements by

Breeders' Cup will be are that the World Championships are

going to Keeneland in 2026 and then back to New York and

Belmont Park in 2027. First with Keeneland.

The stop there always kind of remind me of an All Star game at

Wrigley Field, Fenway Park. It's kind of back to the roots.

It's Breeders' Cup, feel that way about it.

Very much and we kind of view it as the masters, you know, for

the industry it is. It's such a beautiful venue.

They have so much respect to the history and tradition.

If you've seen the, the build out they've done over the years,

they maintain the style while still, you know, making it even

more accessible. The build out they've done at

the paddock is extraordinary. I don't know if you've had a

chance to go out and see it yet, but, and then they're redoing

the paddock area itself, but you know, committing over $100

million to upgrading. Those are the kind of things

that we'd go back anyway. But because we love it there,

the team there that Shannon's put together is amazing.

The, the, the city is so welcoming, like I was mentioning

before, but also to have, it's exciting to see race tracks now

and states investing in the, in the racing infrastructure.

So we're, we're doing this for a lot of reasons, but it certainly

is a show our our support for for them.

John Cat, the CEO of Breeders' Cup with us here on Blood Horse

Monday. Frank Hanks, Luger Beau hanging

out with you. I the, the, the Keeneland part

is interesting, you know, because I'm sure in the

industry, many people think of it as a, as boutique meets in

spring and fall and, and certainly we think of the sales

as the real cornerstone of Keeneland.

Do you think part of the, you know, the impetus for the

expansion that they've done there is because of your

presence? I, I think it probably played

into it. I think that, you know, we, this

will be our fourth time. I started about 3 weeks before

COVID here so and that was a Keeneland and we ended up with

3500 people. But you know, in 2022, we felt

it was important to go back because to give the fans a

chance. But you know, when you look at

the infrastructure we put in, which we start in July, we

almost doubled the size of it. We put in 165,000 square feet of

temporary structures. So we do build it out because we

do have people coming from all over the world.

And I think that I think it probably plays a part in the

sense that Keeneland rightfully thinks of them as the the home

of thoroughbred racing. They they're here, they're

they're proud of it. If you think about the lift they

have to go through with the largest sale in the world in

September, roll right into their October meet, we show up and

take it for a week and, and a day and a half later they have

another major sale. So they're an incredible team.

They, they, it's a lot for them to let us come in, but it's a

very good working relationship. So I think that the new paddock

area will be a real cornerstone for what we're going to be able

to offer in terms of the experience.

And beyond those facilities, I I always like to that it.

A Breeders' Cup at Keeneland serves as a reminder that the

Breeders are so important. That's why this event exists.

Exactly. And to have it in Central

Kentucky, it, it's such a good fit for for the event itself

isn't. It very much so and you know

we're the Breeders cup for a reason we're not-for-profit.

We commit ourselves to just helping the industry in any way

we can. But as you said, Frank, the

having it here where so many of the Breeders and are located and

a lot of the owners, a lot of beautiful farms, it's a great

way for people to come in. It's a great showcase.

We also get to make over $100 million of economic impact in

Lexington. The hotels, the restaurants,

everyone is just really makes it special.

So it, it allows us to help showcase what racing really can

be about. And yes, it's a, it's a smaller

venue, but it's, it's very attractive, it's very engaging

and it's a wonderful, wonderful experience.

And people from all over the world get to see it.

So that's, that's very useful as well.

And they can stay for the sale, which is useful.

It doesn't hurt for sure. 2022 was a real gift for me because I

got to sleep in my own bed and see Flightline, so that was

nice. Yeah, there you go.

Which I got with us from Breeders' Cup.

Keeneland has had a knack of. Unbelievable writing versus the.

Classic when you have white line and American pharaoh it's.

Yeah, American Pharaoh is, Franklin remembers.

American Pharaoh was the first year I started at Bloodwurst.

And so it was, it was definitely a leg up.

And having it at Keeneland is like you said, was, was.

Amazing. Yeah, no doubt about it.

Back to New York City in 2027, we talked about on this podcast

importance of being in those major cities in America.

You mentioned Southern California, being in Los

Angeles, being in San Diego. You know, we're able to track

the numbers on shows like this where people are listening.

It's a huge market for us in Southern California, but New

York is as well. And it's exciting to see racing

back on Long Island, back at Belmont Park at this level,

talking about, you know, Belmont Stakes and of course, in your

case, talking about the Breeders Cup, your New York guy.

How excited are you to get back to Belmont?

Couldn't be more excited. I've been going to Belmont,

which is a beautiful, iconic park, but unlike, I mean, it's,

it's a really interesting juxtaposition of, of what

Keeneland, how they're doing it, they're building on, they're

raising it and they're coming up and I, I assume you've seen the,

the pictures of what they're going to be doing.

It's going to be extraordinary. It's going to be

state-of-the-art. It's going to be the newest

racetrack facility in the world. They are, David and his team are

doing an amazing job. We've been working with them.

We'll obviously need to do the temporary structures and this

sort of thing. They're going to be opening up

to the infield. We probably won't do that for

the Breeders Cup with the weather and all, but we're

really looking forward to it and New York racing.

Governor, Governor Hochul was so supportive.

It's amazing that you have almost $500 million being

invested into New York racing, which is such a cornerstone for

racing around the country, and we're excited about getting

there. Being back in New York, there's

so many opportunities to make this an epic situation where

people from, we'll have people come that might not have thought

about coming because it's going to be in New York, it's going to

be brand new. It's very exciting and this is a

game. What we try and do is support

this kind of innovation. They're really reimagining what

racing could be like and remind you a little bit of the Ascot

when they rebuilt that. And so I think it's going to be

fantastic and just the beginning of us being able to keep going

back and going to that, You know, being in the East Coast,

being in New York. And you know, the good news is

we travel around every year. Bad news is we travel around

every year because it takes a lot to do, but David O'Rourke

and his team are making it, you know, really easy to kind of do.

But it's going to be interesting because it's going to be new for

them, it's going to be new for us.

So there will be some interesting challenges, but

mostly it's just a huge amount of opportunity to make this

really special. Yeah.

What are, what are some of the things that a modern facility

like this will allow Breeders' Cup to do?

What? What are some of the things that

are attractive for Breeders' Cup about this new facility?

Well, heat is one thing, but if you look at the way they've

structured it, it's actually it, you know, compared to what the

massive Belmont was, it's going to be everything you're going to

the vantage points, the perspectives, you're going to be

able to get on. The racing is incredible.

They really opened up the green space around it.

So it's going to be probably a little more like the Ascot feel

where you'll be able to do a lot more things spread out.

That'll give us an opportunity to build out really innovative

temporary structures and this sort of thing.

You know, they've added the, they're adding the, this the 4th

track. I think the, the tracks are

going to be great. It just gives us a lot of

opportunity. And then there's so much to

offer because the most important thing for us is obviously the

two days of racing 200 horses from around the world and all

this. But a big part of that week is

to is to showcase what horse racing can really be like.

And New York is a pretty good, pretty good stage for that.

You have the two day program that you just mentioned, Juvie's

on on Friday, the older horses on Saturday.

Is that is that been a good format for Breeders' Cup and is

that something you continue in the future?

I think so. It it, you know, you have the 2

year olds there. It's a showcase.

We always come out looking for the favorite and the Derby the

next year. And a lot of the horses, the 2

year old running that much later, they're able to grow and

and develop more. You can see them even a little

bit more of what they're all about.

And then our our three years old from all over the world ending

with the classic, you know, it's it's going to be really special.

So yeah, that that that format has has worked very, very well

for us over the years. And I have we have every

intention of keeping that going. Everyone seems to like it very

much. We talked to Brooke Smith

earlier in this episode, 1 of The Owners of Sierra Leone and

of course back in the Stephen Foster this coming Saturday.

When does John start to really zone in on these races to figure

out who might be in that classic that just that one doesn't like?

Well, you know, it's so excited. We had such an amazing classic

last year and the Foster is like, Oh my goodness.

And, and tell them we're back. And, and so our racing team with

Dora do an amazing job of keeping track and our challenge

series is, is now getting into full swing where it's the win

and you're in. So our our racing team keeps

track of this on a daily basis and they reach out to all the

trainers and the owners as the races proceed.

Don't have to encourage them too much to come, but we try and you

know, we make it. We try and make it as seamless

and as easy as possible for the owners and the trainers and the

horses and the participants all to come, you know, with the

hotel rooms we organized with the flights for the horses, all

that sort of thing. So we we focus pretty, pretty

early on, but this is where it really gets exciting.

We really start seeing 456 challenge races a weekend and so

we're we're excited about that. Steven Foster should be amazing.

Rubber meets the road this weekend at Churchill Downs ahead

of a trip to Del Mar and then Keeneland and then Belmont.

Could not be more excited for your team there, John.

And all the best to you, John Kent, the COO of Breeders' Cup.

Thanks so much for joining. Us here.

Thanks very much. Take care.

Hey, John Kent from Breeders' Cup, appreciate him jumping in

with us on the program. And you, you hear the talk about

Belmont and and we can talk about Keeneland all day, but we

all know Keeneland. We know what it is like you

mentioned, it's a build on. I appreciate your comparison to

say, an All Star game, you know, at Fenway, at Wrigley, something

like that. Getting back to the root of the

game and and being amongst the Breeders, right?

I mean, being in this place, you know, I drive here from

Louisville, can't help but pass all the Breeders, right?

It's impossible to do that. But that that move to Belmont,

that modern facility. I love the comparison to ask it

because I think that's completely apartment, but I

think it gives us an opportunity in the US to have that.

That's accurate, and it's so important to get back to New

York and racing there really needed a facility like this.

I mean, you look at the new arenas and new stadiums, new

ballparks in the New York region.

That's who Naira's competing with.

So I really like the looks of this track.

It's going to be a little bit smaller, but it's going to have

some nicer areas. I like that they're leaning into

the park atmosphere because that's something I've always

loved about Belmont Park. You're you're not right in the

city, but it's still a very urban area.

And then all of a sudden you walk into this track and there's

just this immense in field of green, and it just really takes

your breath away. And then the seed of horses out

there competing, it's a spectacular atmosphere.

And I love that Naira's really leaning into that with this new

facility. Yeah.

It's exciting, too, to hear him say things like sight lines and

thinking about on track attendance that way.

Because you've been to Aqueduct, you've been to Belmont.

Those are places that Friday, Saturday, it's busy, right?

There's still a good, there's still a good crew crowd for

those places and I'm hopeful that'll continue once the new

Bail Bob Park is open again. Thanks to John Kent there, the

CEO of Breeders' Cup for joining us here on Blood Horse Monday.

One more interview to go today Frank and we'll head to

California for that one. All right, it's time for our

third and final interview on this rendition of Blood Horse

Monday. We'll be joined now by the

thoroughbred owners of California President and CEO

Bill Nader. We did this interview back on

Friday so we will be doing it wearing different clothing.

Proud of you and it mostly be but talked with Bill I I I do

show about Southern California racing and I write out there a

little bit as well Frank and it's it's a spot once I got into

podcasting is how I discovered the real what's the best word

here? Just the the fanaticism of yeah,

the passion of racing racing fans in Southern California,

whether it be San Diego, whether it be the LA area, frankly all

the way up into Northern California.

We get really good numbers in places like Fresno and San Jose.

And so it's it's been nice to learn about those things when I

travel out West, I get to meet so many people.

It's so so lovely. So seeing those numbers go up

and you and you know, we've talked about it on this podcast

in terms of New York City. But also, man, we need that

Southern California circuit in our sport.

Yeah, that's for sure. And that that's why I was so

encouraging to see Santa Anita have some positive numbers in

terms of attendance and handle. They're trying to make things

work out there. The the Northern circuit is shut

down and it's all concentrated now in Southern California.

That's the plan. So good people are working hard

to to try to make that work. California is really the only

major racing state left that doesn't have added gaming

revenues coming in. Yeah.

So they're going the traditional route of trying to make this

work in a para mutual manner and and there's some numbers that

suggest that that things are going in the right direction,

which is great to see. Yeah, and numbers, like on track

numbers, attendance, those sorts of things, if you can get people

in the door, they're going to, you know, they're going to,

they're going to feel a different connection to the

sport than if they're just watching on their televisions,

for sure. But I would also say if you're

going to grow the sport to the next generation, you got to get

kids to the track man 'cause otherwise, if you're just

watching on TV, it's just another sport that maybe is far,

far away. Maybe like if you grew up in

Kentucky, maybe ice hockey's kind of a a foreign sport to

you, that sort of thing. We don't need horse racing to be

foreign in those markets where it's so prominent.

I think that's what makes the connection strong.

And yeah, there's few places in the world that are better to

watch a race in Santa Anita, Del Mar.

And you and I have been they really are.

And you and I have been to the track, you know, together with

our kids and just the, you know, that I like the five here.

Sure sign. OK, Right.

Then the five wins. The reaction is just all.

It's unbeatable. Yeah, you.

Pick your It's the original fantasy sport, you know, you

express your opinion with $2.00 or you don't have to bet at all.

You just cheer for whatever horse you think's going to win

and it's a great sport like that.

Yeah, my kid definitely doesn't know how to use a betting

machine. So here is Bill Nader.

He's the president of the TOC, was nice enough to join us on

Friday here on Black Horse Monday.

All right, we're really glad to welcome in Bill Nader to the

program here on Blood Horse Monday.

Before he joined the Thoroughbred Owners of

California, we saw him in Hong Kong and various other places,

including New York. But it settled in with his new

role at the TOC. Bill, thanks so much for making

the time. We know you're traveling and

doing all kinds of things. Thanks for joining us here on

Blood Horse Monday. Thank you, Louis.

Thank you, Frank. Great to be with you.

Bill, we have a mix of people that have been in the industry

for a long time and and some newcomers listening to the

podcast, you just go about talk a little bit about the TOC, the

thoroughbred owners of California and your role there

as President and CEO. Well, it's a, it's a big

organization when you think of the size of it.

There's nearly 7000 members of the TOC and we, we represent the

owners and really try to work at every level end to end to, you

know, to improve the value proposition and make horse

ownership as good as it can be. And as everybody, we would

appreciate. And this is something even in my

time in Hong Kong that was so critical at every every meeting

and everything that we did there, that if you can make the

value proposition for owners, what it should be and the

trickle down impact of that and the benefits to, you know, every

phase and every stakeholder within the industry will

benefit, whether it be trainer, jockey, backstretch worker, even

the racing fan, because of what the racing fan wants more than

anything is to see the best, highest quality competition, you

know, get the the best horses on the track and let them compete.

So, so we work at every level, whether it be race dates,

wagering agreements, working with our regulators, our

legislators, everybody, every touch point to try to make

ownership the best it can be. And from a personal point of

view, I, I take that to mean more than horse owners, but

really the entire industry, there's so many, so many great

people, not just horse owners that are part of this.

And we try to protect everybody's interest and make

sure that the the future of racing in our state has a bright

future. Yeah.

And and along those lines, there were definitely some encouraging

numbers from the winter and spring at Santa Anita where but

the field size was up and the corollary of that is handle was

up. There's there's two factors are

tied together. How encouraging was that that to

see? Very much Frank.

I mean when we looked at it, this is the year of transition

for California when we we've moved to a single circuit and

try to incorporate the north into our race tracks here in the

South Santa Anita, now Los Alamitos and soon to be Del Mar.

And it's worked. You know we we we did the

blueprint pretty much on the fly.

We were, we were in terms of operational readiness.

We had given it some thought. But as you are aware in

mid-december the news broke that Golden State racing would would

stop operation and wouldn't continue on December 26th into

the new year. So we had to pivot very quickly

and I think we've done it successfully.

And when you look at, you know, the influx of Northern

California horses into the population her that here in

Southern California that's helped, you know, create a spike

in field sizes, which is great. I mean, when you look at it and

I look at it through the lens of the customer, the better and

what they what they expect of California.

California has such a great history, a great tradition, a

great reputation and a great brand.

But one of the weak points that people have been pointing

pointing to for years has been relatively small field sizes.

And it's something that I think the entire industry struggles

with right now in America. But we've been able to see an

uptick and I think that's been great.

And as we finished last Sunday, the the spring meet at CN Anita.

So through, you know, the winter and the spring, we saw 69

additional races run, which is good, more opportunities and,

and usually when you have more races, you think, well, maybe

the field sizes will come down, but instead it's been more

opportunities and bigger field sizes.

So that's a double plus, right? So, so the field sizes were 7.5

through the 15th of June. And that's that's up.

And when you compare it to Naira at the same point in time, this

was interesting. I went and looked at this

recognizing that Naira is more Aqueduct without turf racing.

So to be fair to them, it's not their their, their prime part of

the season. But you know, it's we're at the

checkpoint here at midterm report half the year and

California right now is at 7.5 and naira is at 7.0.

So it shows that, you know, we're showing some renewed life.

We're being more competitive and and giving customers hopefully a

better product and and that's driven handle up and, and that's

been a good thing. And and the good thing about the

handle increases. Something else that we look at

is this across all segments, you know, Interstate wagering within

California, Interstate wagering outside of California and even

into the, you know, the high volume segments, everyone is up.

The high volume segments are up marginally just just a small

amount, but the other segments are up to a greater degree.

And I think that's more healthy and more sustainable.

And again, we hope to hope, we hope that the second-half of the

year we can continue to build on that momentum.

Bill Nader's with us from the Thoroughbred owners of

California. He's their president and CEO.

You mentioned those Northern California races that have been

carted at Santa Anita. There are three $6250 races this

past Saturday. By the time this airs Bill at at

Los Alamitos with 11-12 and eleven horses entered in those

races. We know about the great

tradition, frankly, that developed in the last decade,

decade and 1/2 in Northern California that claiming that

claiming culture in the north, you know, those races at Golden

Gate in different places was a real part.

It's transferred to Southern California.

Does does the, does the TOC see that as a long term sustainable

part of this? Because when we talk about field

sizes, I'll as a player, I'll take 1112 and 11 all day.

Yeah, great question. I, I think the, the, the, we're

gonna have to work with, you know, our northern stakeholders

that have relocated to the South and, and help them and

understand exactly their viewpoint and really make it

more of a 360 and get that communication going both ways to

see how we can help to make it sustainable.

Because eventually that population of horses, there's

going to be some attrition and how we can keep everybody in

play and keep it going, you know, for a longer term benefit.

And then make, you know, do everything we can to make sure

this is not a short lived spike. But but yeah, I mean, when you

look at La Salle on this first weekend, if no scratches and

taking out the also eligibles, the average field size is 8.3.

So that's that's a that's pretty good for La Salle.

So again, when I say build on the momentum and for the

restricted races that we ran here at Santa Anita at the lower

levels to accommodate that population and give them a

chance to actually make a transition and feel welcome and

be part of Southern California. And for a lot of them great

thrill to get, you know, when winning races at Santa Anita,

you know, you can't under score unstate understate that.

I mean, I, I started out at Rockingham and I remember when

in New England a Rockingham horse went to, you know, New

York and won a race. We all got a real kick out of

that. I mean, it was really exciting

for us as race fans, never mind the owner, the trainer in the

jockey, but as racing fans and the same thing here, you know,

it's, it's big, you're on the big stage.

And to to win on at this level, it's a great thing.

But it helps to bring California together to try to incorporate

and and really channel, you know, all of the assets that we

have the best way we can, including the limited resources

that can help drive the purse money up here at Santa Anita.

So I'm sorry about that. So the so it's been key.

And there were 105 restricted races at Santa Anita.

Oh, the classic and the spring meet.

But Louis, there was a race on Tuesday and it was an open race,

not no restrictions at all. And every horse entered in the

race was from Northern California.

He was basically a 10 claimer. And I thought that was a great

sign. I mean, they they've come in,

they now, they now now feel they're part of it.

They don't have to run just in restricted races.

They can run in open races and they can be competitive.

So hopefully we turn the corner. Past Saturday there was even an

allowance race that featured many of those horses that was

run in the low 30s, which was reminiscent of the of the purses

at Golden Gate Field. So it was nice to see those

things there as well though. So it's nice to see that

continuing and I hope it does because honestly, within those

sequences, if you're a pick 4 player or something like that,

it's nice to have those those races in the middle.

Absolutely. I mean, hand handles important

everywhere as a driver of purses, a driver for tracks,

money that supplies money to tracks and purses.

But a lot of other states have added gaming, whereas in

California the paramutual is is the driver knowing that I I

guess have you do do you see, do you see this continuing?

Do you see a path forward? What kind of this is the start

of some good things. Yeah, I Frank, look, we don't

have the secondary stream of income.

We don't have HHR, we don't have VL TS like New York or Kentucky

or some of the other states. They have those advantages.

So para mutual handle is the key for us that's going to drive

purse increases. And this has been a tremendous

year in that regard because on February 28th, that was the day

that we implemented the first purse increase at Santa Anita.

And they would, it had been a downward trend here in purses.

And now we're back up, we're coming back up.

And so what's happens from February 28th all the way

through December 31 of this year, every, every race that's

running California will will have a higher purse as compared

to the same race last year. So that's part of the success

story. We're able to to share some of

that upside with our key stakeholders, owners, trainers,

jockeys, everybody in the value chain and we hope to be able to

build on that again as we go into 2026.

And while we're doing that, of course, we're still hoping for

the, you know, the big ticket change of bringing in something

that would really help, you know, change the landscape here

in a very positive way. But of the things that we can

control that are with us today, I think we're pushing all the

right buttons to, to, to make that difference.

And, and the man, they've been so many people that have been

loyal to California and have stuck it out here and they love

it. And, and you know, a big part of

horse racing as an owner, it's not just the purse money with

the purse money is so important, but it's also everything else

that goes with it in terms of the experience.

And when you look at California and everything else that goes

with it, with the experience, man, we've got it.

We've got it in in spades. And and we do it probably better

than anyone else. So the last piece of the puzzle

is the is the one that we've got to figure out, and if we can

ever figure that out, we're going to be in a great place.

I always tell people, if you want to fall in love with horse

racing, hang out at Clockers Corner some morning.

You'll fall in love real quick. It's a great spot out there.

It's an Anita Bill Nader with us from out there in California as

well. The future of of the circuit

itself and what should be or not be emphasized as far as the

owners are concerned. Bill, when I think of California

racing as a guy in Louisville, KY here where we can barely keep

a turf cars together, unfortunately, I think of great

turf racing there in California. Is that a way to make California

kind of different is to, you know, even more of an emphasis?

I know you know if we see a nine race card at Santa Anita, it's

probably going to be 5 races on the anyway.

So it's not as though there isn't an emphasis down the hill,

all those different things that happened there in California.

But could turf racing become the thing that draws more people to

the West Coast? I think so.

I mean, the great thing about turf racing here is certainty,

you know, that race is going to be run on the turf almost.

It's almost like I remember looking at it last year, it was

like 98.6% or something crazy like that.

It's it's nearly a perfect score and it's one of the great

attributes of racing here in California, In Southern

California, the weather is tremendous.

So with that, you get the certainty of races being run on

turf. There were 70, 78 or 79 days of

racing at Santa Anita from December 31 to June 15th.

But you know, if I look at the numbers, see if I have the

consolidated look here, yeah, it's 78 race days.

And the number of turf races were 362 and the number of dirt

races were 400. So 47 1/2% of the races were run

on turf. So a lot of emphasis on turf

racing, leveraging the advantages that we have and the

turf course held up brilliantly and terrific.

And so you don't have the turf course at Los Alamitos, but then

we go to Del Mar. And of course it's featured at

Del Mar, not at the same percentage as it is at Santa

Anita, but still it's a big part of the picture there.

And and look, it's, it's, it's one of our prime assets.

What the positive things going on it with increased interest in

California the and this is not unusual, but the horses have

provided a reminder of there's not much there's been few places

in the world that are better to train a horse.

Journalism is based there goes and wins the Preakness Stakes.

The top ranked horse right now in NTRA pole Raging Torrent goes

east and wins the Met mile. Baeza was in right it right

there in the Derby and the Belmont.

Just how big has that been to see these horses go on and

enjoys so much success in California and beyond?

I tell you, it's there's nothing like, you know, I don't care

where you live and what region you are when you're, when your

horses and you're at your tracks and your region go on the big

stages and win. You know, I mean, if you're from

Oklahoma, you love the Oklahoma City Thunder.

If you're Indiana, you love the Pacers and if you're LA, you're

the Dodgers and you know, and then you go to Del Mar and

they're Padre people. But but when your horses Copian

was another one in Hope road running 1-2 and Queen Maxima,

and it was just, you know, and of course, the ones that you

mentioned Frank, but it would it showed how California really

packs a punch. And we can't be forgotten out

here that the the the horses that are coming out of here and

are part of our part of our team are very, very competitive and

very strong. And they they are they're

something else. I mean, when you look at the CN

Anita Derby this year and you talk about how people, the

affection they feel for California and you look at Aaron

Wellman and Eclipse and you know, that race had five horses.

But when you look at journalism and by ASA and citizen bull and

you know, you keep going. It was like, you know, the in

Barnes, Barnes was in there and you're thinking, well, there's 4

right there that could have run in any of the three-year old

lead up races and been favored, right.

But they were here and the purse unfortunately was had to be

reduced to 500,000 this year. But but still, as I said, first

money is important, but it's not the total, the total, you know,

influence in terms of what people do and decisions they

make. And there's other parts of the

puzzle or other parts of the equation that weigh in and to to

Aaron's Aaron Wellman's credit. And I really, you know, he ran

in the San Felipe and the scene. He needed Derby and then, you

know, was favored in every leg of the Triple Crown.

So that was one. But the other horses, Copian,

Copian is she's she's she's amazing.

Raging torrent. And you keep going by.

He's in the second-half. We'll see how good he is.

And and you go on and on from there.

I mean, madiquette Rd. there was so many that ran and but yeah,

people get pumped up. They get excited that you know,

you know, then they know you, you wearing that California

uniform when you go out and that's, that's, that's home,

home, hometown pride. And you definitely feel it.

He's Bill Nader. He joined us from the

Thoroughbred Owners of California, TOC online.com.

By the way, if you are needing any help with your ownership out

there in California, go find his team there, President and CEO of

that organization. We'll get you out of here on

this When is the Grand Slam bet coming to Southern California?

That's funny. Yeah.

I don't know. I've tried to, you know, quietly

convince them that they should do it.

I I think at Del Mar it would be fabulous because you get that,

that new crowd and it's, it's a good introduction.

When it first came out, it was funny.

I cooked it up. And I remember Paul Moran, who

who wrote for Newsday and you know, just a great, great guy

and you know, but you know, first he.

He was down on it, didn't like it and let me know about it.

And then eventually he said, you know, you kind of win him over

after time. But there was one one year that

first year Bernardini won the Jim Dandy.

And so I'm trying to think what year that was.

But that was the we were just into it.

And Bernardini was, I think one to two in the Jim Dandy and the

Grand Slam paid $30. And then people said, well,

that's, that's not a bad way to go.

If you, you know, you know, you're going to be a short price

favorite and you love the worst, try to do it this way.

And it's just another opportunity.

But certainly for younger people.

And my, my kids at the time were teenagers and, you know, hanging

around with, you know, Migliore's kids and Santos's

kids and Mclaughlin's kids. And they all loved it.

You know, when they you know that you know, they're young

kids in in university or college and they're trying to stretch

their budget and they want to be able to play a multi leg bet,

this is one that you know that they liked.

And so that crowd certainly always talks to Mr. Nader.

We love the Grand Slam. I love hearing that.

So that's good. Thanks.

Everyday, Bill. Well, they go well.

Bill, thanks so much for joining us here on Blood Horse Monday.

Continued success there in Southern California and a

reminder of those minimums at Low Sal.

I like them. It's good.

It's great. Those minimums.

Let's go. It's good stuff.

Frank Luke, great being with you.

Thank you very much. All right, Bill Nader from the

TOC appreciate him jumping on with us here on Blood Horse

Monday. All right, again, thanks to Bill

Nader joining us from the Thoroughbred owners of

California complicated scenario right now as he described with

the without Golden Gate essentially in the fairs up

north and getting those horses involved.

But for now and hopefully a sustainable thing moving

forward, Frank Field size up, right, those races with those

restricted races, etcetera, we're we're seeing those now,

you know, permeate the cards and be there offering 1011 horses in

the gate, that kind of thing. So real positive on that side.

Any other takeaways from the? Yeah.

I mean, I just just to build on that, you know, those are those

races are largely the northern, the Northern countless in

Northern Kentucky, Northern California horses.

So it's kind of good that these types of races have helped help

the interest, help make some betting interest to help the

card and that that helps everyone, helps the purses.

And then you still have the star horses out there.

And we just saw, you know, we just saw in the Triple Crown

races with journalism by ASA, the number one horse in the

country right now, Raging Torrent, the Met Mile winner.

So the big horses are still there and that there's they're

building on that and bringing bringing eyeballs to California.

And then for the, you know, the betting interest, you're getting

the big fields as well. Yeah, Copion is on that list

too, right? I mean, just so many that he

mentioned you could even forget a couple of Johannes.

I'm sure we'll be back in training very soon.

Tons and tons of great horses out there.

You know, they move to Los, Al for the three weeks for, of

course, only horse racing. They go to Orange County for the

LA County meet and the we see the fields full again with these

restricted races because those $5000 claimers moved to 6250

claimers at Los Al. So we're seeing those field

sizes. I'll pick up there as well.

Well, Churchill closes this weekend.

We moved to Ellis Park. We see the, you know, the even

more emphasis on their two year old program there will be

interesting moving forward in Kentucky here.

Obviously the move to Saratoga in a couple of weeks after the

4th of July and just getting into the summer.

What are you looking forward to the most you think this summer?

Well, first of all, I noticed unfortunately that the corgi

races at LS here where we were hoping to enter our corgi happen

to be when I'm on vacation. So we are not going to be able

to make that this year, but she will stay in training for next

year. So easy.

But now Ellis is becoming a terrific place to start a 2 year

old race, 2 year old horse. They have a great, great program

now there for 2 year olds. So, you know, you can see any

kind at Ellis right now. He really can.

I talked with with their new racing secretary Bailey over

there and he he really emphasized they're going to be,

you know, really ramping up that 2 year old program as much as

they can. But also, you know, they're

going to keep that Saturday, Sunday, Monday schedule with the

stakes on Sunday so that jockeys can come back if they want to

for those sorts of races. It's an interesting sort of move

for them. Obviously we know what Saratoga

is that's not going away in any sort of way.

Of course we'll be running the Belmont there next summer as

well, but you know, shift to Del Mar Speaking of California as

well. So we'll have all the races

there of course in anticipation, Breeders' Cup as well.

But. That that always brings in a few

more horses when you when you have a meet at the track that's

going to host the Breeders Cup. So, so that's going to be, I'm

sure that's going to be a successful.

Nice little bump for them as well.

And of course, big change out there.

Larry Columbus on the mic replacing Trevor after so many,

many good years out there at Del Mar as well.

Well, he's Frank. Ganks.

I'm Louis Ribow, thanks so much for hanging out with us on Blood

Horse Monday. We always encourage you at this

point in the podcast to check out the magazine, of course,

Blood Horse magazine, the QR code at the bottom there if

you're watching on Spotify or on YouTube.

What should people be looking for in the Blood Horse magazine?

Oh, you know, so he's not here today.

That doesn't mean that Sean didn't do some work.

A. Really terrific story on on some

of the trainers that worked with Wayne Lucas and their reaction

to his retirement. So that's very good.

We have we're going to have features ahead of a lot of the

Breeders Cup Challenge races this year.

We'll have one on Wednesday on Mystic Dan and what it's like

for a Derby winner to come back at 4:00.

So yeah, well, a lot of good stuff coming up.

There you go, bloodhorse.com. Click on the daily at the top,

Lex. And of course, if you want to

check out the magazine, use QR code on screen right now and get

signed up with us here at Bloodhorse.

Are these Frank ganks? I'm Louie Rubbo, Steven Foster.

This weekend we got to be getting excited about some of

these wins and ends for all of these sorts of things.

Very, very excited to see that. But we'll be back next week,

Sean too, even. How about that?

We'll be up in Horseshoe Indianapolis ahead of the

Indiana Derby. We're getting into the Midwest

Derby season as well. So we'll be up there for the

draw on Monday and we'll see you next week on Blood Horse.

The Blood Horse is dedicated to the improvement of Thoroughbred

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