BloodHorse Monday 8/25/25 | Griffin Johnson

All right, welcome in final episode of August already.

My gosh, What happened to 2025? I'm Louie Revo.

This is Blood Horse Monday. His name is Sean Collins.

Last episode there in New York before he makes the trek back to

the Bluegrass ahead of the start of the Kentucky Downs meeting.

Hey, guess who's presenting the show today?

It is our friends at Kentucky Downs.

It opens this Thursday with the richest maidens in the world at

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For more information, visit themintkentuckydowns.com.

The mint.themintkentuckydowns.com/live

Racing for everything that's going on there as well.

The great Circa Sports book there.

They've got the live racing, obviously the seven days that

they run every single year. They've got the Mint Gaming Hall

as well. Beautiful property.

Sean. I'm sure you're excited to get

down there and check out Kentucky's most unique.

Yes, I'm very excited to get down to Kentucky Downs this

weekend. I know you were just there to

see that Circa Sports book. What do you think?

There for the opener, it's incredible, frankly, and it it

there is a moment where you step through, you know, they've got

the very large collection of HHR machines there and you know lots

of people playing those and beautiful bars and all the

there's a pizza place in there Sean, that it bothered me how

good it bothered me. The pizza was very good.

It bothered me and they've got that V sin the the group from

Vegas has a studio there. They're doing show from there.

So hopefully they'll they'll drag us down there and make us

do shows there at some point. But yeah, it's it's spectacular.

There's a moment you walk past the HHR machines and you're

like, oh, we're I'm in Vegas, OK, there we are OK, great.

There you go. It's incredible.

It's beautiful. So lots of different options out

there. Our friends at Kentucky Downs.

You have wrapped up your time at Saratoga, at least for racing

for the year, Shawnan. And instead of just kind of

going through what happened this weekend, everyone saw what

happened with sovereignty, and we can have our thoughts on that

for sure. Your first summer at Saratoga,

it's one thing to visit Saratoga.

It's another thing to spend time at a track.

It'd be really be around, you know, the backside, the culture

of a place, man. What was it like at Saratoga

Summer? Oh, it was awesome.

It, you know, it was, I was thinking about this yesterday as

I was leaving the racetrack. It's just the atmosphere on the

backstretch is just so much more laid back and everybody's back

there, especially that week, like leading up to the yearling

sale at the start of August, the Fasic Tipton sale, you know,

that was a, you know, everybody was back there, all the owners,

the Breeders, you know, you were able to meet a whole bunch of

people and it was, it was a really fun experience to be out

here for the whole summer. You get to see great horses

every single morning. All the top horses are there.

You get to see all the top connections there as well.

Made a lot of great connections, had a whole lot of fun being out

there every single day. So I'm going to miss it.

But at the same time, I can't wait to get back into Louisville

and see those twin Spires here in a couple days when I'm back

on the backstretch of Churchill down.

So I've been, I've been missing that, but it was such a great

summer here and really a perfect way to cap it off, not just with

sovereignty, also the amazing performance of Thorpedo, Anna

and Dorth Vader and the personal ends.

And that was just such a great way to kind of cap the meat for

me here. I know I speak for many of the

people who hang out with this show, whether it's on Spotify,

YouTube, whatever it might be. But thank you, Sean.

You did a great job this summer and we appreciate all the videos

from the morning, all the photos and different stuff.

You really took us behind the scenes for those of us who

couldn't be there. And there are many of us who

can't be there able to take in the Saratoga thing all the time.

And so we appreciate your your hard work on that.

You did get to see Sovereignty run a bunch of times as as Laffy

Pikai picked pointed out on Fox on Saturday, he became the first

horse to win those three. You know, those four races over

the same summer in the Derby, the Belmont, the Dandy and the

Traverse. On Saturday, I talked with

Matthew DeSantis, who works at Naira on my radio show on

Friday. He predicted a double digit

length victory in the Traverse, a pretty good he nailed it.

He also nailed the perfect exact book of Dano in Scotland in the

previous race. So he's to listen to me on

Fridays, if like, not me, sorry, the people talking to me on

Fridays. Yeah, we don't listen to you, we

listen to your guests. No doubt about it.

That's exactly right. People don't turn it TuneIn.

They they let me introduce Blood Horse Monday and then Frank

Cakes takes over the weekend. Yeah, but no, the the

sovereignty thing. What's it been like being around

him? The Hosar.

Oh, it's been amazing. And it's also just cool to see

other people's reaction to we just we just spoke to Kenny

Mcpeak on the backstretch the yesterday morning Sunday, and he

was just raving about sovereignty and how he's been

watching him train every single morning.

And, you know, just kind of the excitement that he gets watching

sovereignty come out onto the racetrack.

And this is the guy who has the horse of the year and last

year's Kentucky Derby winner at his barn still.

So it's been it's been really fun to see.

That was always my first stop every morning was to make sure I

watched him train. So I've I've seen a lot of him

this summer and he looks fantastic.

I just, I can't see him getting beat.

I know if the Breeders classics gonna be tough, I just can't see

him losing the way that he is right now.

He looks fantastic. Mott's done a fantastic job with

him throughout the summer here getting him prepared.

I want to give a shout out to Bracket Buster.

We had his connection, Ryan Klatsky on the show last.

Week. This show, this show, this show.

It is. It's free money, owners.

It's free money. Readers, just come on this show,

your horse will get a big check in the race.

That's how it works. It's just how it works.

Yeah, he he ran fantastic in that race.

I want to give, I want to give a shout out to him.

I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of different people

about how good he ran in the last couple two days, but.

You know, it's an interesting point by you actually, I, I what

kind of pause the conversation there is.

We get lost in how great sovereignty is.

We forget there are other horses in these races, right?

Like we forget how good like a Gozger is any other year, any

other year when he's not running against these these two monsters

that we have in our three-year old class on the on the colt

side, let alone on the Philly side.

And so it's just, you know, the other part of this is those

other horses. One of them more disappointing

frankly in the traverse was magnitude.

Do you think it's just a distance thing for him?

Maybe and I also think, you know, we, we kind of talked

about this before with him that, you know, we, we never really

knew exactly what he was, what he was.

And, you know, I'm, I'm wondering how much of the field

was very spread out by the end of the race.

That's right. When you look at like the fact

that he was 10 lengths behind Bracket Buster, how much of that

was that just you knew we were going to finish third and so we

weren't really going to push him at at the end because the other

two were well behind you and Bracket Buster and Sovereignty

were pulling away from you. So I don't know, I thought I

felt like he was very over hyped kind of coming into this race.

I mean, you never know until you actually try them.

But I know I wasn't 100% really on his bandwagon and I felt like

Bracket Buster and Sovereignty, when time came, they were able

to handle him pretty easily. Could be a distance thing.

We'll have to wait and see, you know, but as we get there.

But he might just run into two better horses this weekend.

Might be it. Torpedo Anna wins in her race in

the personal Ensign. Had to really battle Darth Vader

to do it. I think once in a while, Sean,

it's good for a horse like Torpedo Anna to get pushed like

that and still have the confidence to know that she can

do it felt a little like an idiomatic race where you just

assume she's going to squirt away and she doesn't, right.

And it felt a little like that. What was the crowd reaction to

that finish? I can only.

Imagine they were going crazy. If anybody, you know, people

will say all the time, you know, she's not the same horse that

she was as a three-year old, which I'm not 100% that I

believe. That with you but.

She definitely is. Still, One thing you can't say

is that she's not as popular as she was very popular and that

was proven. The way that the fans reacted on

on Saturday here, that place was going crazy.

He was such a thrilling stretch tool.

And I think a lot of people really like and respect Darth

Vader too. So the fact that it was her who

was kind of pushing her down the stretch.

They were well clear of the others.

And just one of the coolest parts was the crowd, The cheer

from the crowd when they put Torpedo Anna's number up as the

winner. And then when she came into the

winner's circle after the race, she got a nice ovation as she

came into the winner's circle. So we treated the two stars this

weekend. The Graveyard of Champions did

not do its job this weekend. We were able to see Sovereignty

and Torpedo Anna overcome that and just put on some dazzling

performances. Felt very lucky to be part of

the crowd and be able to witness both of those in the same day,

just a couple races apart from each other.

Obviously there were a lot of other great races on this day

one. 100 it's here, man, because you said the two great horses

won. Book of Daniel goes ahead and

wins again and not in an ideal trip, not in his ideal style.

Still gets it done in the forego there.

I put up a poll at at my other podcast at the happy hour and

just ask people who had a better summer at Saratoga, sovereignty

or Book of Dano and Sovereignty got a solid like 60, you know,

2/3 of the votes essentially. But it's obviously gets that.

From our Horse of the Year vote. It's not a ridiculous question.

No one, no one laughed at me for the question because Book of

Dano was that good this summer. It's OK to say out loud.

You have a really interesting piece up right now at

bloodhorse.com about his future, how they talk about training

him. We all assume everyone's

shooting for the same things all the time.

And, and the connections with Bochum Dano was a reminder that

not everybody's doing the same thing all the time, right?

Not everybody's thinking, oh, I got to be a Del Mar on

Halloween. Not everybody's thinking that.

There are people thinking of different things.

What did they? What did the connections tell

you there? Yeah.

Well, right now they're not 100% decided on the Breeders Cup.

And it sounded like part of that was the beginning of the year

plan did not include running in the Breeders Cup.

They were thinking probably most likely ending the year in the

Phoenix Stakes at Keeneland, but they're also keeping the door

open, open, open to the Vosburgh Stakes.

So when we talked with Derek Ryan, I I know he kind of talked

a little bit in the winner's circle and a lot of people, you

know, and what he said in the winner's circle after the race

kind of took it and ran as all, there's no way he's going to the

Breeders Cup. When I talked to him Sunday

morning, it did, you know, it was the well, we will consider

it because you know, obviously this is a huge race and if the

owners want to go, we're going to go.

But Derek Ryan's fine with passing up on the Breeders Cup.

He really wants to win the Breeders Cup at Keeneland next

year in 2026. It's an easier ship.

You don't have to go across the country.

You know, this is a gelding. He's only four years old.

You want to see him have a long career.

You want to see him be successful.

You don't have to worry about that breeding money coming in at

some point. You know, you just want him to

be at his best to go win the best races.

And so if you're thinking about the long term and you don't want

to ship them all the way across the country this year, you don't

have to. And they've got plenty of other

races. The Phoenix Stakes is a very

historic race. It's the oldest graded stakes

race in America. And so that's a very big race to

win, especially on the stage of Keeneland.

And so it just goes to remind you that there's different,

different paths forward for a lot of these horses.

And that's what we might see with Bookham Dano here.

They're going to put some consideration into the Breeders

Cup. But I'd say right now it's

leaning more toward he will not be participating there.

But I also think it was interesting from Derek to say he

thinks he should already be considered as the champion

sprinter for this year. We'll see what happens the rest

of the year. But I mean, when you sweep those

three races at Saratoga outside of the Breeders Cup, what else

is there really to accomplish in that division?

Mind frame banishing Nicos Buchemdano.

That was your top four in the Grade 1 Churchill Downs on

Derby. Separated by a neck.

Separated by a neck and all of them have shown that that was

one of the key absolute races of this year.

We'll see Nicos, of course, of this weekend.

I wish we could vote an Eclipse Award best race of the year

because that would be in the contention.

We'll see what the Breeders Cup Classic ends up turning into

here in a couple weeks, but that that would probably be the

number one race right now I would say.

Kind of a hot take. I think the Breeders Cup Turf is

going to end up being an incredible race this year.

I don't know why, but I think it's going to be an incredible

race. I got, I got a gut.

I don't know why I got a substantial gut, but this I got

feeling about this one that's different on that end.

Shawn Collins, we were both hanging out with you.

Well, get in into your time at Saratoga.

You have befriended a man named Griffin Johnson.

You found out vicariously through him that that he's a fan

of your YouTube page. How about that?

It was pretty incredible. Yeah.

It's amazing to to even think about that.

But he was excited to do this interview with you.

And there's something that always stands out before we

watch this and for people at home.

I haven't seen this yet. I try to have these be fresh so

that I react in real time on this show.

He seems to not just understand the role here, he seems to excel

at it. Sean and I, and I don't know

what the role is like, like hand man, hype man or like Sandman.

Like I don't just marketer, I like.

I don't know what his exact role is, but damn it, he's nailing

it. It's it's stunning, frankly.

And even in a place as ugly as horse racing Twitter, he does

OK. He does OK.

It's unbelievable. I mean, this guy is so, so

versatile. So anything you want people to

know before we start your interview with Sandman part

owner Griffin Johnson? Yes.

So, well, first of all, I think his role is, and it's really

going to turn into this in the coming future, is not just the

Sandman hype man, but the horse racing hype man.

So you know, for those who don't, yeah, for those who don't

know, Griffin Johnson, he is a social media influencer.

He's picked up a large following over the last couple years since

2019 on TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat, all all the sites.

So he's got he's got millions of followers on those sites.

He was recently introduced into America's best racing stake and

stardom program at the beginning of last year.

That gave him a part ownership in Sandman, who you know from

winning the Arkansas Derby, running in the Kentucky Derby in

the Preakness Stakes this year. And he's been taking his

millions of non horse racing fan followers along for the ride and

beginning to turn them into horse racing fans.

And so it's great to sit down with him here.

He not only has Sandman, but he has also gotten invested with

two more horses with West Point Thoroughbred, some 2 year olds

named Curtain Call, who Sandman's running in the

Nashville Derby on Saturday. Curtain Call is running in the

Hopeful Stakes, Grade One at Saratoga on Monday.

And then he also is involved with Ewing, who is the Saratoga

Special winner from a couple weeks ago.

So we dived into a little bit about those three horses.

Also just his plans for the industry and yeah, let's get

right into it. Should we, Louie?

Yeah, here's Sean sitting on a bench all.

Right, we're here at Saratoga. I'm joined by Griffin Johnson

today. You're gonna have a big weekend

here, Griffin. Coming up, we got Sandman

running in the Nashville Derby. A few days later, you're gonna

have Curtain Call in the Hopeful Stakes.

I know you've been part of a couple big weekends already with

the Derby, the Preakness, stuff like that.

But what is it like now having two horses running on the same

weekend? Well, you know, it's a good

problem now. I'm still, you know, just super

blessed Sandman's going to run in the Nashville Derby August

30th. Yeah, still got to figure out

I'm going to catch the flight to Saratoga for curtain call.

At least there are different days.

Yeah, we got two days there, right.

So, you know, they helped me out.

But yeah, curtain call in the Hopeful on September 1st,

closing out the Saratoga, so it feels pretty good.

Now, when you first got into this a year ago with Sandman,

did you expect to be at the point where you were going to

have, you know, multiple horses running on the same weekend

where you have to have that concert about how do I get to

the both of these races? No, yeah.

Look, I, I don't really know what else to say other than just

I'm just thankful for every single race that I get to go to.

I love watching Sandman run and to have, you know, we have Ewing

now. Yeah, I mean, there's really

nothing I can say other than whoever's looking out for me,

please keep doing it. And it's it's the best ever.

I couldn't really plan this. I don't think if I'd.

Yeah, I know it's pretty good. You've already got one Grade 1

winner. You might have a second Grade 1

winner here by next week at this point.

But let's let's start with Sandman here.

You know, obviously we'll we'll skip for right now the whole

getting into involved with him. So let's just stick to the

ownership side right now. What are you expecting from him

switching to the turf? What have you heard from Mark,

Cassie and the rest of the team as far as I'm trying to grass

this weekend? Yeah, You know, it's always me

just trying to learn. I mean, I'm still so new to

this. Every single day I'm learning

something. So I always make a joke.

You know, Mark doesn't tell me how to make content and I never

ask him about, you know, what he's thinking.

But he does tell me and try to explain things.

And I mean, look, Sandman is obviously ran against the best

horses in the country. He's obviously just, you know,

half of you know, he's half of a class behind some of the top

ones. Obviously, sovereignty is.

He's pretty impressive. I know you were there for that

race, yet the Travers. This weekend.

So. Yeah.

So he's just an absolute specimen in journalism as well.

We're about to see him run again.

And I think this is a good spot to put him as far as, you know,

with the company that he should be with.

And I think that with his pedigree, it would make sense to

put him on the turf, right? And even I have learned that

over the last. Year, his sister was a three

time stakes winner on the grass, I believe, Yeah.

Yeah, and I just think and you know, everyone keeps saying, you

know, Kentucky Downs turf course, it is very unique.

Yes, for sure. And I just think that same man,

just with his running style and how he's kind of been, he's

always been pretty like laid back and versatile.

Doesn't really get to, I guess, prissy you could say about, you

know, where he's running or what he's doing.

So I think that he's going to be just fine.

Yeah. We'll see though.

He should definitely love the distance.

I think the mile and five sixteenths for sure.

And that track layout, that's one of those things.

Anything can happen on that track.

Mark Cassie's told me that a couple times.

He's like, you never know until you actually run them whether or

not they'll like it. So hopefully he'll like it

there. You mentioned that you're going

to try to be out there for the national Derby, right?

Or yeah, I'm going to be there. So I'm going to find a way.

What are your expectations, your plans for being a Kentucky

Downs? You know, it's from what I hear,

I've never been, but you know, it's a pretty, pretty small

spot. But it's beautiful, it's unique.

So I'm really looking for it. I'm trying to knock off as many

tracks. Yeah.

Trying to catch up to you as far as visiting.

You'll catch up. Yeah, well, you know, I'm

trying, but I'm excited to see it.

You know, Sandman is just, I just can't, I never get over

watching him run, you know, win or lose for me, I just it, it's

my favorite feeling in the world.

So just to be there at a new track and to see him run on

something, it's I don't know. I just love that we're we're

sending him out and we get to watch him run.

And I think people that love Sandman love that and I love

that. So thanks, Mark.

Well. Talking about Sandman, you know,

we always say when people get into this industry for the first

time, for a lot of us there's really that kind of that one

horse that kind of grabs us and pulls us in.

For me, that was Barbaro watching him on TV.

For you, you, it was a little different because you actually

had the direct contact with him coming in.

What is it about him? What is it about your

relationship with him? I've seen that on the

backstretch several times, you interacting with him.

What is it about that that's really kind of hooked you and

pulled you in? Yeah, it's a great question.

I've thought about this a lot. You know, aside from him being

talented, I think I said this in a comment section the other day,

but it kind of feels like it's your child.

And I think anyone, you know, coming into this word and like

you said, you have your your first horse that you they call

it the heart horse, right? Yeah.

You know, I think from from that moving forward and you know, Sam

is my heart horse. I mean, that is just like you

were saying Barbara was yours. And I'm sure you remember

watching him on. This.

Oh yeah, thinking about. You know how infatuated and how

interesting he was to you? That's how Sandman's been to me.

And I've just was blessed enough that, you know, my first taste

in the sport was actually to be hands on with him and be a part

owner and really get the full thing.

So I think about that a lot. I didn't really understand it

when I first got in and the more I learned, the more grateful I

am to have the opportunity for that.

So I just take it in as much time as I can get with him

because they don't run forever and they're gone pretty quick

and I'm just taking in every second of the game.

Now take us back to a little. Over a year ago.

You're part of the America's Best Racing Stick and start on

program. When they first reach out to you

with this idea, what was your thought process?

I know you weren't really involved with racing, but you

had a love of animals, a level of horses coming into it from

your background before. Just what was your first initial

thought when they reached out to you with the idea of getting

involved? Yeah, I'll give you my honest

answer. I didn't know anything.

I mean, I didn't really know what to expect.

I just, I'd always grown up around the Kentucky Derby.

I grew up in the Midwest. So you know, you hear about it

and how prestigious it is. And I just knew that it was a

great opportunity. And I figured, you know, why not

take a chance? And at the time, you know,

Samuel was an unraised 2 year old.

So it was, I guess a gamble across the board, right of we

don't know what's going to happen and just turn of events

ended us up you. Know ended up with a Grade 1

winner in the Kentucky Derby and.

You know, you can't, you couldn't write that any better.

So, you know, just, I guess really I didn't know what to

expect and I was ignorant to what this sport had to really

offer. But I figured it out pretty

quick. Yeah.

First race I was like, I made the right choice, yes.

Well, what is it about? I mean, we just talked about

Sandman kind of what's so special about him?

But what is it about the sport that you've really come to enjoy

over the last year that you've because I, I see you on the

backstretch all the time, even when the cameras are off.

You're out there trying to learn.

You're out there. I saw you with Rinaldo a couple

weeks ago, you know, just trying to learn how to clean the

equipment. Like you're giving it your all

to try and learn this industry, which hopefully a lot of people

in this industry, I know you get a lot of flex sometimes,

probably for people that have been in this for a long time,

but you know, you're, you're giving it your best shot.

You're trying to learn everything.

You're doing a fantastic job at that.

What is it about this industry that's really pulled you in?

You know, believe it or not, you're you kind of mentioned the

Flack already, but yeah, and you know, there is people, but it it

really is everyone that's involved.

I mean, I think that my whole life I've been searching for an

industry that holds, you know, high quality individuals that

are super passionate about what they're doing.

And that's what I picked up on horse racing instantly.

I mean, it doesn't matter if you're working in the office at

a track. It doesn't matter if you're

working on the backside, doesn't matter if you're work in

security. Every single person there takes

their job serious. They love horses and they put

their heart into it. And that kind of comes with the

Flack too, is I really understood that a lot of people

giving me a hard time, you know, they're super passionate at the

end of the day and they want things to be, you know,

pronounced correctly. They wanted to say, and I don't

always do that. And I'm the first one to say it.

And you know, the reason I'm back there trying to learn is

because I I really respect how much effort and dedication

everyone puts in. And somewhere down the line in a

few years, I want to be able to put myself in the conversation

and hold my own. That's my goal.

Yeah, Well, I think a lot of people, maybe sometimes,

especially when you were first kind of, I know you've been kind

of doing this for about a year, but I feel like the racing

public, the racing industry really kind of took notice right

before the Derby. I think a lot of people look at

that, you know, social media influencer.

He's probably just doing this for doing this right now.

This is the hot thing for him to do right now.

But you're planning to stick this out for the long run.

You want to be part of this industry for the long run.

Just tell us about that. Yeah, you know, I'm trying, you

know, hopefully I can continue to, you know, have success with

West Point. And obviously they've put me on

to spectacular horses and I could never thank them enough,

right? Because at the end of the day,

it's about the horses and running and.

But yeah, I plan on doing this for as long as I can, as long as

everyone has me, I guess. But you know what that kind of

goes back into it is I want to earn the stripes from people.

And I know that right now I'm definitely not polished and I

have a long place to go. But you know, I want to invest

in this. And the reason I am doing that

is because my goal in life and everything that I speak about

and think about, dream about is horse racing and how do we grow

the sport. I think that it has the best

roots, the best traditions and an incredible foundation to be

one of the most watched sports in America.

And I think that we're already starting to see, I mean, the

media and all the attention towards it already.

I think it's, you know, already starting to, you know, knock

some dust off of some old time horse watchers and some horsemen

that maybe were, you know, a little stale or stagnant.

It's starting to get people that are already in it a little bit

excited. Something to talk about.

Whether they hate me or they love me, it's something to talk.

About Hey, we're talking about racing.

Right. Yeah, we're talking about

racing. At the end of the day, that's

what it's about for me. And I want to learn every single

piece that I can and just really apply social media and my

marketing knowledge to all of that.

So that's my dream. I know the one of the things

that impressed me the most, the first time we ever talked at at

the Preakness first day I met you when you really started

diving into like the analytical side of what you do and just

like listening that, like how how deep into that you got

really impressed me. Like how much I feel like a lot

of times the perception for, and you probably agree with this,

the perception a lot of people have of influencers is they just

stick their phone up, film something, post it and that's

that. But there's a lot that goes into

the back end of that. You pay a lot of attention to

the analytics and how everything's kind of coming

through, how everything's translating to your audience.

How has what you've been doing with racing with Sandman, How

has that been successful so far? Cuz I know we saw Churchill

Downs Incorporated, they gave you a lot of credit for how much

money they ended up generating in the Derby handle this year.

So how much have you seen that take off of your audience?

Yeah, I mean, people love the horses, right?

I think that really coming into this too, it was just perfect

timing, right? The sport more than ever now is

worried about, you know, safety and worried about, you know,

marketing and everyone's kind of at this point where they

realized that, hey, you know, we should probably do a better job

of getting the word out right. And it was just that that

perfect lightning in a bottle. The Derby popped up and IA lot

of people don't know this, but I went into the Derby two weeks

early to film a lot of that content.

So, you know, sometimes I was posting, but it was really

something I'd filmed 10 days before, but I was there every

morning at 5:30 grinding it out to get it.

And that was really what sparked this first, you know, piece of

momentum and success. And I, I don't take credit, you

know, for any of it really. I think that what I've done is,

is really sparked people's interests again to dive deeper

into social media. You know, I see a lot of the the

the media outlets and news outlets and horse racing even,

you know, getting excited about covering Sandman and seeing all

the new fans come in that love him.

And it's just a little bit of like a rejuvenation, I think.

And it's starting to trickle down.

And that's that's really where I think the success is coming from

is, you know, I just sparked the flame, but there was a lot of

gasoline in this sport ready to be poured.

And it's, it's, it's really, I think an exciting time.

It, the Derby just sparked in and I'm thankful that they gave

me credit, but I don't know. We're going to find out if we

can do it again, you know? Yep.

Well, Speaking of sparking the flame, you obviously caught a

lot of attention within the industry.

You're invited to come speak at the The Jockey Club Roundtable a

few weeks ago here at Saratoga. Obviously, that's a big honor.

That's a very important people in the industry.

They're wanting to hear what you have to say.

What did you tell them? What was your message to them?

Yeah, the jockey, the the jockey round table.

I couldn't believe First off that they had asked me to come

speak at that. That was fantastic.

And you know, I'm not, I'm definitely far from, you know,

perfect of always picking the the right words to represent

everyone. But I really tried to go into

that thinking, OK, how do I take everything I've been seeing in

my comment sections, people's concerns, people's thoughts.

And you know, I don't really get into the Super polarizing

topics. But as far as like marketing and

media and growing this and bringing in new jobs for people

in the sport. And, you know, just overall the

longevity of, you know, growing it and finding our new fan base.

That was that was really what I wanted to bring home of, you

know, these these guys are so, so powerful and they're so

intelligent and they've been doing something so successfully

for so long a certain way. And it's I respect that.

And I don't expect to go in and just bulldoze my way through and

say I'm right. And This is why I mean, it

really is, you know, baby steps. And I think that was, you know,

the first step in the right direction.

And everyone that believed in me enough to go and do that.

Thank you because I think we we really are starting to make

momentum. Yeah.

Well, that momentum hopefully is now going to carry over to your

two year olds. Yes, we got Curtain Call running

here in the Hopeful. I know we have Ewing who just

won the Saratoga Special a couple weeks ago and is now

headed to somewhere in Kentucky to where he's going to be

running on the Derby trail potentially.

Just let's go with Curtain Call here in the Hopeful.

What are you expecting out of that performance?

How exciting is it to again have this young horse with all this

potential ahead of him? Yeah, yeah, I'm always careful

in these because once again, I know that I'm not.

I know I'm not a well versed veteran, but you know, I do.

I will say I do spend a lot of time around my horses and I I

spend a ton of time, you know, just trying to figure them out

and listen to the assistant trainers, the trainers and

everyone around to see how they're working.

And, you know, across the board what I hear from Curtin call is

you really. He's just, he makes it easy and

something about, you know, that I noticed in him is that he's

always ready to go to the track. So I am interested to see how

he's going to do it. 7 And I actually think that he'll just

get better the longer he goes. I don't know if you saw his rat

his last race, but. It was just there for his

workout the other day. He looked pretty good.

Yeah, his maiden, you know, was it was a little bit sloppy.

He still came out and he was finishing the race strong.

He won by I think 8 or 9. Like, yeah, he just he, he is

going to be very interesting. I'm, I'm excited for him and,

you know, obviously I, I can't pick a favorite between him and

Ewing. Well, tell us about Ewing too.

He comes off that big win in his maiden race and then he comes

back and faces a very good horse and obliteration and beat him to

the wire there. How exciting was that for you?

Yeah, I I try to keep my expectations, you know where

they should be in two year olds. You know, there's a long way to

go, but you know, Ewing, I wouldn't.

I can't wait until, you know, obviously with these two year

olds, you don't know what's going to happen.

But I would love to see what horse beats him because he runs

hard and you see, he even stumbled out of the gate.

He still comes up in the front, runs AT226 and you know, it's

he's a hard willed horse and he shows up every day.

Every single person that you know, the exercise riders tell

me. I mean, he's all business.

I know you don't want to pick one.

I'll pick one for you as a new, as a New York Knicks fan, I've

got to go with Ewing as my number one of the two just

purely for that reason. But but I mean that's exciting.

You're not only just have the one good 2 year old, you got 2

that you know, as you're and you've been down the Derby trail

before now you kind of know what to expect because obviously

that's our first thought with any 2 year old that wins made in

races. Oh, what are they going to do in

the Triple Crown trail next season?

I'm sure that that bug has caught you like it does

everybody else. But how do you how do you manage

your expectations? Because as everybody will say,

and I'm sure you've heard this 800 times that you you shouldn't

expect to have this much success when you first get started.

And you know, it's kind of, yeah, well, you know, the kind

of a little bit of that luck that you got a Grade 1 winner on

the first one, you already have a Grade 2 winner and 1:00 that's

going to try to win a Grade 1 here in a little bit.

How do you kind of manage those expectations?

And you know when in the future as you kind of get more

involved, how do you expect that to kind of how do you expect to

manage those kind of expectations if your horses are

not running as well? I'm just trying to take you with

grace. I mean, every win that I do get,

I'm I shout it from the rooftops and every loss that I get, I

still shout it from the rooftops.

And that's because I'm just, I think that me showcasing my

journey, win or lose, mistake or no mistake, slip up in words, no

slip up in words, whatever it is, it's all part of a journey.

And really I preach it all the time.

Authenticity is about showing your wins and your losses.

I'm going to fail more than I win.

And whether it's if I have another great campaign

back-to-back two years, there's going to come a time when I'm

not. And you know, I'm prepared for

it. And I tell people, even if my

horse is running and you know, claimers and you know, in

Indianapolis, I'm going to be there.

I don't care what it is. I just like to watch them run,

so that's what I'm going to do and that's my plan and I'm going

to ride it as long as I can. Well, as as we kind of get

toward the end here, for those who maybe don't know you as

well, just go through how did you get into the social media

realm? How did that kind of come

together? Yeah, so I've, I've been in that

a long time. So I started in 2019.

I was in nursing school and college and this is when TikTok

was not as popular. And they just started pandemic.

Yeah, people used to make fun of you if you had TikTok on your

phone. And I was broke as a joke.

And I was like, my buddy told me, hey, you could make money if

you post on this and you do live streams.

And I was like, oh, really? So I, I got lucky and I just

caught the, the app early. I posted a few videos.

I had one of them catch traction really early.

And within the next year, I lived in Lai had a group, we all

moved in a month later. It's February, COVID hits, all

the kids are on lockdown. We're in a big house in LA, a

bunch of guys together that are all doing social media content.

The kids live vicariously through US.

And you know, that's kind of the, the rest of the history.

And I the way I got into horses and actually because of that and

I, I created a venture capital fund and Co founded that and

ended up having a mutual friend with Ally Finley in West Point.

And that's how it came to be with ABR.

And here we are now. So a Long story short, it just

started from a broke kid in college.

Really. That's that was.

A secret? Well.

For anybody who's watching this that maybe you know, is involved

with the racing industry, what is the advice that you give them

as far as how do we promote this sport?

You're coming from the unique perspective of you're constantly

dealing with the people who we're trying to get, the people

who are not involved with racing and we're trying to turn them

into racing fans. What's your best advice for

trying to get them connected to the sport?

Yeah, it's a fantastic question, by the way.

I think there's two pieces to the answer.

I think #1 is, is, you know, people can't be afraid to fail.

I think that a lot of times the first question in horse racing,

people always ask me of like, how do I get started or like,

what do I post? And what when you really break

that down, it's just don't be afraid to fail.

You know, sometimes I post content even then doesn't do

great or the algorithm hates me that day or whatever.

But you know, it's been 6 1/2 years.

I've never missed a day of posting.

And at the end, at the end of the day, consistency is what you

know, that's what one for me. So anyone that is looking to do

it, don't be afraid to fail and be consistent.

And for those of you that don't, all I ask is you don't have to

love it. You can think that I'm a stupid

kid. I get it.

It's fine. But just be kind to people

coming in because there's a lot of new people.

And you'll see it in my content all the time.

Like, you know, I don't always use the correct terms, but it's

also because these people don't know, right?

Yeah. And you got to get them in so

they can learn. They're going to go and learn on

their own. So just be kind to people and

really try to lend your hand out because there's going to be a

lot of new ones coming. So I know that everyone's

passionate and dedicated, but please, let's be kind to the

newcomers. Yes, yes, definitely.

So you're going to win both of these great at stakes this week.

Look, if if we win one, I'll be over to the moon to win 2.

I don't even know what I would do.

I mean, like, I'm going to have to write an apology letter to

everyone because I really do like, I just feel overly blessed

to be in this spot. It's it's crazy to me.

Like, I don't know what to say because it's like, I don't know

how I got here. I really don't.

I just threw myself out there and West Point took care of me.

So thanks, Terry. Awesome.

Well, we are definitely thankful to have you involved in the

industry, have you promoting the industry.

Best of luck with your horses this weekend.

Best of luck with the rest of your career here in the

industry. Well, thanks.

Thanks for being nice to me, Sean.

I appreciate it. I.

Appreciate Sean's better looking twin, Griffin Johnson here on

the show. He's as much of A geek about

this stuff as you are. It terrifies me.

I know it's terrifying. Yeah.

I don't need this in my life, by the way, These good looking guys

getting into horse racing, being more articulate than I am.

I don't need any of it, Sean. This is my career.

What are you doing this? Is threatening your career here?

He's. Going to host this show next

week. There's just me and these bad

shirts. I'm not going to be around

anymore. It's just going to happen.

Going to be a thing. I don't like it.

I'll say this about him. He said two things that I really

think stand out. One is about him, 1 is about the

industry. The first one about him, he

literally said if we don't have a three-year old campaign like

this at some point because he's not going anywhere.

Yeah, he's not going anywhere. Griffith Johnson wants to be in

this business. He's interested in horse racing,

frankly, more than just the influencing side of it.

He's way past the he's way over top of that right now.

The influencing part doesn't hurt.

It certainly supplements whatever he's doing.

But look, he's not going anywhere.

The second part is being nice to newcomers.

Let me say this as someone who went to the track for three

years by himself and no one helped him.

It's not an easy sport to love if no one, if no one's kind to

you at all. Now it's easy to show up and

think it's beautiful and love a horse and oh, it's fast or I

like wagering or whatever. All those things are true.

And certainly if you just get people in the door at a track,

they're going to be more likely to become fans long term.

The world's very simple that way.

But the, the being nice to people thing, Sean, if you went

on NBA Twitter, you would see debates about LeBron and Jordan,

OK. If you go on horse racing

Twitter, everyone's an idiot. Everybody, everyone's a moron.

And then you sit down and you have that interview and it's

like, yeah, no, not everybody's on.

It's OK Griffin. Dot's pretty good, dude.

Kind of gives a bleep about the sport, cares about the horses.

Like, this is the exact kind of youth infusion that we want in

the sport, is it not? It is, is it not?

I mean just. Where the guy sits down, the

first thing he says is we're going to fail more than we win.

Gee, you think he understands horse racing?

It took like 3 months. How does he get it?

Better than half the very unpleasant people that populate

social media around horse racing.

You don't have to do that. You could beat Griffin Johnson.

It's all right. Unbelievable.

Go ahead. I'm sure you enjoyed this.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be all worth that.

Oh, keep ranting if you want. I mean, this is exactly this is

what you know, as as somebody who, you know, grew up wanting

to be in this industry. And, you know, that took me a

while to get my foot in the door just because I didn't know

anybody. What he's saying is important

there. It's important to welcome the

newcomers. But also, you know, you know,

you know, kind of what he what he was talking about there with,

you know, being or what you were talking about there with, you

know, kind of your experience. This is exactly what we always

preach is what we want to happen in the sport.

We want younger people to come in.

We want them to get excited. We want them to, you know, be

putting all their effort into this.

And you know, we a lot of times we, we, as you mentioned on

Twitter, we see where people immediately try to.

Talk badly to them and they immediately kind of turned them

off to the industry sometimes. But Griffin's going into this,

you know, full-fledged he's not seen in this interview was the

hour and a half we spent after the interview just talking about

his future plans for marketing this industry.

And he's, I won't spoil any of his plans for him, but he's got

a lot of stuff that he's working on that people have no idea

about, on how he's going to try to make sure that we're

promoting this industry the best that we can, that we're getting

new people involved with this industry, that we're turning

them into fans, that that will then turn them into betters.

He's all in. He's getting the right people

together. He's getting different groups

that are pretty important in this industry together to work

together on this process, on this project.

And so he's he's going to be a major player when we're things

are all said and done. He is going to be someone who is

really kind of helping push this industry into the next

generation and kind of try to get us back to that point where

we're on the same level as other sports.

That's his passion. He's not just in this for the

influencing side of it. He wants to see horse racing be

successful and he wants to see it be 1 of the top sports in the

nation. By the way, I thought his

analysis of Sandman at Kentucky Downs was spot on.

Frankly, I I think he's a horse that could really like Kentucky

Downs. A reminder, they open on

Thursday. Richest mains in the world, over

40 million in purses. Get involved in something

special. Come visit or wager.

You can visit them online at the Mint, kentuckydowns.com.

And from a trackside. How about that?

We're going to add him straight in from trackside.

His name is Ted Nicholson. He's on a golf cart.

I'm very jealous. How are you, Ted?

I'm not playing golf, that's for sure, Louis.

You probably could. That's probably a couple 1000

yard course right there by itself.

But Ted, I just saw the I just saw the weather report.

Good job if you're in charge of that, good job.

Yeah, well, I had to pay an extra 1100 thousand for that,

but you know, it's worth it. I'd rather be dry than pushing

all of our races to another day. So it's all good.

Weather looks great. We were just there on Wednesday

for the opening of the Circa Sports book.

You all are creating a destination there at Kentucky

Downs and frankly, it's it's in full bloom.

Hotel pool, wagering, all of the HHR machines, all those things.

How even even in your you know, you see the renderings, you see

all the stuff. How did that sports book come

out? It looks incredible.

Honestly, I wouldn't have been able to dream something like

that up, but the vision of Mark Falcone and Ron Winchell is

amazing, and that's what we have.

It really is something I've told everybody, including my my son

who lives at home now from after graduating.

I told him, I said when you come down, you got to go to sports

book. He goes, oh, my friends already

know all about it. I'm like, holy crap, it's

unbelievable. Well, that's good.

It's a good problem to have. When I talked to you on

Wednesday, we did a short bid on ESPN Louisville.

You mentioned the graded stakes program at Kentucky Down.

Saturday will be a very large showcase of those races.

Remind me of the numbers at 9 graded stakes this year.

We have 9 graded straight steaks now and I think I told you this

the other day when I got here 11 years ago, we had one and it

was, you know, it was, I think it was the cup.

I don't know what it was called back then, but and you know,

we've been able to get lucky enough to, to increase it to 9.

I'm hoping that some of the two year old races eventually get

get graded. They're not.

At this point it's hard to get those races graded only because

of the fact that if they don't perform well after they leave,

because they're not. Most of these horses that run in

our two year old races are horses that might have broken a

maiden at either Ellis or Saratoga.

So obviously the only way they get graded is if they go

somewhere and beyond. One of them actually was second

in the Breeders Cup and then won that race.

I can't remember the name of it, at which race was it at

Saratoga, but Mayday Ready she won here and then she won at

Keeneland and then she was second in the Breeders Cup.

So I'm hoping that that helps us when the the racing secretaries

all gathered together to talk about graded races in in

December. And you also got had one of your

stakes winners last year, Kilwin came back and won a grade one on

the dirt and the test Stakes at Saratoga and then is going to be

coming on back down to Kentucky Downs for the Music City Stakes

here in a couple weeks as well. One of the things that when I

talk to a lot of the trainers and a lot of the owners, one of

the things that they always talk about is the purse money

throughout the whole meet, not just for those stakes races but

also for the maiden races. We just had Brian Klatsky from

BBN on the show last week and he talked about how that's really a

major part of their business plan is making sure they have

horses that can run at Kentucky Downs.

Just how has that come together the last few years and how has

that really kind of changed turf racing in the United States?

Well, yeah, I think it's it is one of those things where not

only not only Kentucky Downs, but all the other tracks I think

are really focusing more on turf racing.

It is so turf racing is what most if you really sat

handicappers down and said, what's your favorite race to

bet? They're going to say I love a

full field on the grass because favorites don't win all the

time, you know, nobody. And I would think if you ask

that same handicapper, what do you think of betting an

allowance race that only has six or seven?

Well, they're going to go well, I'd rather on the dirt.

I'd rather bet, you know, an allowance race on, on the turf

that's got, you know, 10 to 12 runners.

And so the purses for us, whether it's KTDF or you know,

both with the horseman funds, that just elevates that.

And we used to get full fields. I mean even, you know, for that

matter Turfway Park, they've elevate elevated their purses.

They don't have turf and those races all winter long were full.

So the purse, the purses obviously are driving the bus.

And for us, it really is something that the reach is way

beyond just Kentucky, the reach for turf forces.

And we're seeing, you know, right now we're getting a lot of

interest from California, obviously New York and Europe.

So between the the those three and then all the local horses

that are you know that that that stay in Kentucky year round it

that's how we get 11 and 12 horses in a race.

Nicholson with us, he's track sided Kentucky downs.

I'll be down there on Thursday if you want to hear my coverage

on ESPN 680 and one O 5 seven from 10 until noon on opening

day. Of course, the Mint

kentuckydowns.com if you want to check out their property and all

the good things happening in a Franklin on the Tennessee

border. You mentioned the EUR and

California horses, New York horses, etcetera.

You you also mentioned the 2 year old program.

I kind of want to dig into that a little bit.

Is there a way to incentivize, say, Euro runners to come over

as 2 year olds as well, say, ahead of the Breeders Cup, that

kind of thing? There is, I mean, we tried we

tried, you know, this year I went to to Royal Ascot, which

somebody had to take my arm and pull it up behind my back to go

down that trip. But you know, and, and obviously

talking about all the other races, but to try and convince

some of these trainers that are running their two year olds for

under what I guess would be considered to be 60 or $70,000

and a maiden here is 170. And then it you know, a 2 year

old maiden or a 2 year old allowance race here is 200.

So you know, $200,000 is, is a stake at almost every racetrack

except for here. So if that doesn't entice

somebody to to, you know, to try and run on a, on a course

that's, you know, up and down all around, take a right hand

turn here and there and climb up a little bit of a hill down the

stretch, they're missing the boat.

Well, talk about that layout a little bit more of the

racetrack. Obviously that's probably

incentivizing to some of these Europeans that are coming over,

but also for a lot of connections here in the United

States. If their horse hasn't run on

that track, maybe for some it might be concerning to figure

out whether or not they're going to like it.

But it also, you know, if you have that horse that maybe you

think is on the borderline of competition, you might think

that if they end up loving this track, that could be the great

equalizer. And then that turns into, you

know, kind of more of the larger diversity of horses that are

participating in these races. Yeah, the the course is

different. Obviously we always like to to

refer to it as unique because from the from the mile pole, if

I, if I placed you both standing in the grass in the middle of

that backstretch at the mile, you would be looking uphill.

You can't really see the six furlong mark.

You just can't because it's straight uphill.

And then once you get to the three quarter pole, then you're

looking down. So you go up and then you go

down a hill. And once you get down that hill,

then you're going around the turn and then it's another 3/8

of a mile. So the so the finish and when

you look at the stretch, when you look at the stretch, it's

straight. It's not straight uphill, but

it, there is a gradual uphill climb in the stretch.

So if your horse is not fit, he's not going to win.

You know, you know how some people say, well, you might win

even though he's not fit and you know, we, he might win just

because he's not fit, that won't hurt him.

His class will win. You really need to be fit here

to win. And that's why I think you see

some of these riders, you know, swing to the outside.

They've they've still have some horse that lasts 3/8 or 1/4 mile

to go and they they come up on that outside and they pass them

because they're getting tired that whoever was in the leads

just getting tired. You've got 2 races that are win

and ends for the Breeders Cup this year.

On Saturday you'll have that Turf Sprint.

It's a grade two event down there in Franklin and then the

Turf Cup. Of course next week will be

winners, wins and in for the Breeders Cup itself.

How important is that Breeders' Cup relationship for Kentucky

Downs? It's really important, Louis,

we, we've really tried to cultivate that as best we

possibly can. We're hoping to get a few more

of those winning your ends from the Breeders Cup as we, you

know, move along down, down the line years to come.

But this Saturday, you know, the Sprint is, was important last

year. I mean, Cockburn won last year

and then was the I think it was even money in the Breeders Cup.

Unfortunately they went a little bit too fast.

I think they went by 2121 and change.

I don't know what it was 21 and 121 and 2 is it's pretty quick.

But the horse that ran second to Cogburn, a horse called Kadeem

from the UK is coming back. And, and so we'll see, we'll

see. You know, if he's lucky enough

to, to get a good trip and, and, and win, he's, he's a bit of a

nut case though, I think from what I understand.

So yeah, hopefully, hopefully he settles down enough and I'd like

to, I'd like to see, you know, a really solid Sprint on Saturday.

And then, you know, the Cup has always been, you know, a big

race here, you know that. And we've really promoted the

Derby that Saturday. The Derby's going to be a big, a

big race for us because you've got so many different angles to

play in that race. You've got a horse coming from

the UK. You also have some former Derby

trail horses. I think you guys mentioned

Sandman, but also Burnham Square who won the Bluegrass is and,

and a few others. So trust me, anytime we can get

a Grade 1 winner to come on run on our racetrack, whether it's

kill win or, or Sandman or Burnham Square, I, I, I'm

standing and cheering on them. So.

And you know that this year with that Nashville Derby, it's a

little bit different because these are some of these big dirt

horses that have been invited to this race.

So you mentioned Sandman and Burnham Square.

You also think Tastic and Final Gambit from the Kentucky Derby

were invited. Hill Rd. from the Belmont Stakes

was invited. For a lot of the general public,

the Derby trail, the Kentucky Derby itself, that's the races

that they really follow and those are the horses that they

know to get those popular horses, especially one like

Sandman to get them into Kentucky Downs, How much does

that do for the track as far as advertising that race?

Well, it's great. I mean, obviously to get any

kind of horse that is got that kind of, you know, history

behind it, it's it's outstanding.

So it it's you know, name recognition, you know, people,

you know, people always know those nineteen horses that or

twenty horses that ran in the Derby no matter what.

I mean, my wife will go, Oh yeah, didn't I bet that horse in

the Derby? Yeah.

So it's name recognition. It's, you know, but for me it's

more, you know, they they're, they're coming with some graded

background to them. And, and our goal here is just

to try and get every one of our races graded and not just graded

but elevated to A2 or A1. So it helps, it really does.

Nicholson with us. One more Kentucky Downs

question, then I got a personal one.

We'll get you out of here. If someone is visiting Kentucky

Downs or considering visiting Kentucky Downs, by the way, the

Mint kentuckydowns.com, go check them out.

Easy website to navigate. What should they expect when

they get there? If they've never been here

before, the first thing they're going to say to themselves is so

where's the grandstand? All right.

We. We don't have that.

I was, I was on a show earlier today and they were asking me

about that because like if a novice comes and so basically

it's we don't have a grandstand. We have a, a very large area

where you can walk in from the 8th pole to the top of the

stretch is all free. You never have to pay a penny

to, to come in and and watch the races.

We have a tailgating area, but it, it's more of a country fair

atmosphere. You know where most of it's all,

most of it is open air pavilion type seating and, and, and we

have a chalet that we utilize mostly for, for owners of the

big steaks or sponsors. But the open air feel, if I was

a fan, that's where I'd want to be.

You could be right by the wire. You're right next to the

paddock. There's no place else you know

you'd really want to be. Yeah, All right.

Ted, your son famously hit a home run in the in the College

World Series. What is your greatest athletic

achievement? Wow, I hit it.

You dropped the ball in 275 once or something like that, yeah.

I I've never out driven my son Ryan when we played when we

played golf together. So I can't even say that when

when I was in Little League, I hit a walk off home.

Run. Oh, let's go.

Get out of here. But that's but that's not that's

not hitting a game time home run, I guess, you know, with

with 2 million people watching on ESPN and you know, the Big

Blue nation going crazy. No, I've never done that.

As good as it gets. Well, Ted, we appreciate it very

much. I will see you in three days

already. Come on over to the media tower.

We, we would love to see you, Ted.

I know you're you're busy man, but we'd love to see you in the

media tower and again. I'll come see.

You guys, I appreciate you. Thanks Ted all.

Right. Take care guys.

There we go, Kentucky Downs season does begin this Thursday

again. The Mint.

Kentuckydowns.com/live Racing. All the good stuff down there.

It is its own thing, Sean. There's no way to describe

Kentucky Downs to someone. And that's why I always ask

someone else to do it, because there's no good way to describe

it. It is.

It's a field with hills and and turns and and things and like

you just didn't put up, you put. Up a couple rails and you're

good to go. It's fantastic.

Now, to be fair, the turf course itself the last five years is

this beautifully curated. They've got pads, the whole

thing. I mean, it is.

So I think people think they just go to a field and knock it

down. It's not what happens.

Not a good turf crew and all those things, for sure.

But yeah, I mean, even with just seven days of racing, because

it's in a consolidated amount of time, they've got to move rails,

they've got to move pads, you know, that kind of thing.

It's a complicated process down there, but it is.

Where do you have more? I always like to ask these these

kinds of questions. Where do you have more success

betting Turfway or Kentucky Downs?

Because I hear the same complaints about both, except

that it, it makes me crack up, Sean, because I watch people

complain about Turfway or Kentucky Downs and how difficult

it is to handicap. I, I don't think it's that those

places are difficult to handicap.

It's what's the what Ted talked about once the fields get big

enough. Yeah, right.

Good luck. These people that they complain

about, it's too difficult to handicap, then they're also

complaining about one of the favorite wins five straight

races somewhere else and so. With the Pick 6 on, Traverse Day

pays 150. Bucks that's exactly so you know

it's great for the great for the better is you're going to get

some high prices opinion on somebody.

It's almost both here and Turfway are both pretty much

guaranteed every day it'll be handing out a couple of long

shots, a couple of big prices and it's because they

consistently have those large fields and especially when you

have the purse money that Kentucky Downs has here, you're

getting high quality horses. As I mentioned, you know in the

one questionnaire, you get horses that maybe people are

taking a shot with because they don't know and it turns out they

really love the course. And that's the that's the thing

that kind of gets them across the wire and then they pay it 20

to one or something like that. So it's a great opportunity for

the betters. It's a whole lot of fun to be

down there. This has been one of my favorite

trips to go to the last couple of years.

That's why I'm not going to be here at Saratoga for the last

weekend and I'm going to go up there next weekend.

Now when I made that decision, I didn't realize how good a race

the Jockey Club Gold Cup was going to be this weekend or how

good a race the Pacific Classics going to be out in Del Mar this

weekend. But.

This is a. Race meet that I look forward

into attending every single year and I'm really excited to see

this Nashville Derby. Three and a half million

dollars. You're going to have some of

your Kentucky Derby horses taking on some of your grass

horses, and I can't wait for that.

You mentioned the Pacific Classic.

Journalism goes against older horses.

I think there's a world in which journalism can still be 3 year

old of the year. I think he can win the Pacific

Classic and if he shows up in the Breeders Cup and does the

thing, I think he can still be 3 year old of the year.

Great field for that one. Obviously shipping W from

Saratoga. Is is fierceness And then we're

going to have is my brain going or fierceness?

I'm so sorry. Fierceness.

Going Pacific. I thought I had, I'm sorry, my

brain is on back. We're going to have niceos out

West as well. That trio at the top of that

field, Sean, you know, we can. I don't love everything that

Mike Ripoli says or does or whatever, OK.

And and sometimes I find his post to be cringy.

It's OK. But him having a top horse, one

of the favorites in both the Gold Cup and in the Pacific

Classic, And when he says I want to do this to enhance the

division or whatever, OK, great, thank you for telling.

But he's doing it. But in these two races, he's

actually doing it. He's running these horses,

Pletcher's got them ready, etcetera.

And so kudos for that. The journalism thing though,

Sean, do you agree with me or do you think Sovereignty's wrapped

this thing up? I think at right now I think

sovereignty for me has wrapped up my 3 year old of the year

vote however. Let's say journalism wins

specific class beats sovereignty in the Breeders Cup Classic.

In that case, I would probably vote journalism horse of the

year, but Sovereignty still champion 3 year old.

It's that weird. It's that weird dynamic.

But Sovereignty won the major 3 year old races.

Now to be fair, journalism also did too, of the Preakness and

the Haskell. But Sovereignty beating him

twice in the Triple Crown I think, and then continuing on to

the Jim Dandy and the Travers and doing what he did in those,

I think that solidifies 3 year old of the year for me.

But if journalism did win the Pacific Classic and then turns

the tables on sovereignty in the Breeders Cup, I would I'd put

him as horse of the year. So I'm, I don't know, maybe when

we get to that point, maybe I'll change my mind and also vote

journalism for champion 3 year old.

But I could, I could very well split here and give sovereignty

the three-year old to give journalism the horse of the

year. That's kind of that's where we

are right now. And if you've been listening to

the show the last several weeks, you know what I think of

journalism. You know, he's my top choice in

the specific classic this weekend.

I think sovereignty and journalism are the best two

horses in the country, regardless of age.

I'm excited to see journalism take on this challenge of the

older horses and getting fierceness into this race to

just added a little extra bit of intrigue on top of it.

It's no longer just Nicos versus journalism.

Now you have the East Coast shipper who's run very well the

two times he's gone to California.

Going to say he's been kind of ran OK the Breeders Cup Classic,

didn't he? Yeah, that's he ran.

Better than OK at the Breeders Cup Juvenile the year before.

So it's going to be a nice race. I don't know who we're going to

have yet aside from those three, but this is going to be this is

going to be a great race. I can't wait to tune in for

this. I'll probably be sticking around

at Kentucky Down, sort of waiting to yell at ATV Screen on

Saturday night. I have good news.

They have beautiful spots for you to do that at the air

conditioned. Beautiful spot.

Not that you'll need the air conditioned.

The weather looks incredible this weekend.

No, but these, you know, that Pacific classic, especially

getting an invader from the East Coast.

We just had that in the Delmar Oaks with, oh gosh, I'm totally

blanking. Tyler made the trip and I'm

blanking. I apologize.

But you know, we're seeing more and more that, you know,

underrated part of what happened in our sport with the loss of

air, Air Horse 1, you know, or whatever you want to call it,

Mars Air Transplant for these, for these transport, excuse me,

for these horses. I think it's a little

underrated. We don't talk about it very much

in our sport, but it's good to see guys like Ripoli that do

have the means to get their horses out for these kind of

competitions because frankly, a fierceness, like you said, I

think your your point is very well taken about his time in

Southern California and at Del Mar, the Pacific Classic

actually sets up to be sort of a an unusual race, Shawn, in that

all three of those horses are going to try to be either at the

front or near the front. Now, journalism fell pretty far

back in the Haskell and I think if he does that here, he's done.

He's done. Done.

Have you, have you not watched the Preakness in the Haskell

when he's had a horse in front of him that last day for a mile?

And don't worry, I'll. I'll doubt it at the 16th pole

and then prove me wrong for doubting.

But no, but I, I think it's awesome and it spreading these

great races out to not just Churchill and Saratoga.

I think it's so important having these in different parts of the

country. You and I see the demographic on

this show, for example, we see the numbers of where people

listen from people in Southern California really give a damn

about this sport. And these great races don't

always happen out there. It's why I don't fight when the

Breeders Cup is out there because I know they give a darn.

They really do. It's it's awesome going through

Encinitas during, during Breeders' Cup times.

It's awesome. And so I hope that, I hope

there's a massive crowd for this race on Saturday.

I hope Del Mar's just buzzing. I assume it will be.

I don't know why it wouldn't be. I think people, San Diego are

going to show up. That one I'm really, really

excited for as well. So it's going to be a great

weekend. You're going to be down there at

Kentucky Downs. I'll let you do this.

Do you want the field or the Kentucky Derby alums in the

Nashville Derby? And I think you and I should

have to place a bet on that because I'm going to see you for

the first time in a couple weeks on Monday next week.

Yeah. Yeah.

By the way, I'll tell you what I'm doing on Saturday instead of

going to. Kentucky I think I might go with

the Kentucky Derby horses here. I'm.

Going. To I'm going to take those four

I can. I also have Hill Rd. as from the

Belmont. Sure, the underrated.

I'm so glad Ted mentioned him. Burnham Square gets Brian

Hernandez Junior, who's the best rider in the history of Kentucky

Downs. Oh, yeah.

OK, so this is I'm just saying if you wanted to get aggressive

with a Derby horse, he might be it.

Go ahead. And with him, I mean, every time

I talk to Ian Wilkes in the lead up to the Kentucky Derby, the

amount of times I heard we'd really like to try him on grass

at some point. Here it is.

Here it is. Well, there you go.

Well, next week we'll be recapping both the Gold Cup and

a Pacific Classic, which is super exciting.

Of course, all the great racing at Kentucky Downs, the Mint,

kentuckydowns.com for all the good things happening there as

well. Well, he's Sean.

I'm Louis. I'll be on the simulcast of

Horseshoe Indianapolis on Saturday for Quarter Horse trial

day. You're darn right that's what

Louie's doing, his little trial day up in Indianapolis because

that's how I pay bills. He's Sean.

I'm Louie. This has been a blood horse

Monday. We always encourage you to check

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with all of your great horse racing's insights from our

friends, of course, our partners at Blood Horse and

bloodhorse.com. Well, Sean, you're back to the

Bluegrass when you headed this way, buddy.

About tomorrow, I'm on my way back to Kentucky tomorrow, so

I'm excited to see those twin Spires come Wednesday and

Kentucky Downs come Saturday. There you go.

All right, well, thank your mom for all of the great hospitality

of your time in Saratoga because we as horse racing fans really

appreciated it. We'll be back next week.

It'll be a September edition. By God, already a Blood Horse

Monday. We'll see you then.

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