BloodHorse Monday | Derby Dozen, John Ennis

Welcome in It's the Horse Racing Podcast with laughing in the

introduction. It's Blood Horse Monday.

His name's Sean. I'm Louis.

Thanks for hanging out with us on yet another edition of the

program. John Ennis, the sweet Irish

brogue of John Ennis will be our first guest up today.

We'll hear from Olivia. Olivia.

I want to call her Olivia Benson, which is I think ATV

character from Law and Order or something.

It's a bad job. I'm.

Glad you were focused way. Way in the horses, yes, no doubt

about it. Olivia Newman will join us in

her interview from down there at the OBS sales.

It is that time of year once again.

It feels like it's always that time of year, Sean, now that now

that I do this podcast feels like it's almost sales time.

Yeah. Because you're.

Going to buy those horses. You, you discovered in doing

this podcast that there's like sales every single month.

It's fantastic. I love it.

And then I don't think you realize that this is Sarah.

I had no idea. So.

And then we'll do some serious Derby talk.

Our guy Byron King, of course, you know, from the website

bloodhorse.com has his Derby Dozen, the authority on it,

sovereignty from beginning to end, Gate wire, as the kids say

last year. And so obviously one to listen

to. We'll talk about the Gotham, the

Fountain of Youth, and of course, the Rebel as well.

Looking forward to the weekend, A busy time of year.

Sean, we love this one. You were up at the Battagola the

other day. We'll talk with John about his

winner in that one. How cold was it?

I, I actually, I'm on the record as saying to multiple people.

And by multiple I mean Jenny Reese and Doug Cowan.

So two people. That's multiple.

It sounds like multiple to me. Exactly.

And but frankly, if you catch Jenny in the morning and then

Jenny at night at Turfway, those might be different people.

I'm kidding, Jenny. But I, I, I was caught on the

record as saying, even though it was like 40°, that, that this is

probably one of the warmest days I've ever.

So it was, it was cold, but I didn't have to put on my beanie,

which is always the, that's usually the sign if you're

looking at me, that, that that's the sign as to where I am on the

cold scale is whether or not I'm wearing the beanie or not.

I was able to, I was able to keep the baseball hat on true

through the whole night. Now, to be fair, I wasn't

outside for a good portion of the night because I was inside

doing some obviously working. So I was inside doing some

writing stuff. So I'd pop out for the races but

was outside for the duration of the Battaglia paddock to

winner's circle and I was feeling all right, I was feeling

OK. I used Turfway as a a

essentially self flagellation within horse racing.

Like I go up there knowing my toes are not going to feel good.

Oh yeah, you go up. There prepared for that there's

going to be snot on my jacket from me yeah, at the end of the

night that whatever I wore up there is not enough exactly.

I just know that going in, and it's my version of just a

reminder that when I'm at Churchill and it's like 55 and

I'm angry that it's cold, it ain't cold.

It just ain't cold. And so it's a reminder of that

great white winds, the Battaglia.

What do you think? I, I did like his performance.

I think there's we'll talk to John about this talking post

race. He was talking about that

there's a lot of improvements. So to come in this horse.

I really liked actually full efforts, runner up finish.

This is now 2 races in a row between the Leonidas and the

Battaglia where he kind of came flying and at the end of the

race, but I thought Great White ran well.

I thought it was a good step up from him.

He had been in some traffic and in the Leonidas he didn't really

get the best of trips breaking from the rail and then he

stepped forward in this one. I know probably a lot of people

will look at that margin of victory.

Alex a Shard, we talked to him after the race.

He had said that it it was a little bit of he thinks the

horse was getting tired, but he also thinks he hit the lead too

soon in that race. The horse was just sitting there

waiting for somebody to come catch up to him so.

He did all the work, yes. Right, yeah, He did all the work

kind of kind of keeping the pressure on and then, you know,

lasting around to the end. So I thought this was a good

step forward. It seems like this is a horse

that the longer I mean my main impression and we can ask John

about this too. This horse is huge, Yes, and.

You heard that in the call from Tony Kalo as well, the big

three-year old. Yes, yeah, I mean, he, I'm just

looking at him in the paddock next to other horses.

He just looks huge. So I think once once he fully

grows into his frame and can fully control all of himself, I

think this could be a really good horse.

And it was one that John said they were kind of expecting that

maybe have a big summer and he's maybe looking like he's a little

bit ahead of schedule right now. So I think that I think the

there's a lot of a lot of future for this horse.

Obviously it it's on the Tepeda, it's on you.

Know he's. He's just kind of volatile, so

you wonder about the distance. So there's a lot of question

marks when you're looking at the Derby.

But I I think we saw a legit nice horse that it's gonna be

participating at the stakes level in some capacity, whether

it be Derby or not going forward.

It's interesting too Volvo obviously a son of violence,

right? But you get Uncle MO on the damn

side. So you do have at least a little

bit of routing on the you know, in this in this line.

And so when Josh feels. Confident that he's gonna that

he really likes the way he moves around 2 turns with the frame of

the horse and how big he is. He thinks the two turns are

gonna be up his alley. So he he doesn't and we can ask

him about this as well. He is not concerned about the

mind of 1/4, at least coming out of that race.

Yeah, I I think the assessment of him having to make the first

move and then other horses catching up, I think is really

correct. Yes, that one to me seems like

what happened in that race. The job is to win the race, not

to win at a mile and a 16th projecting forward.

The job is to win the race. The job to make it to the

Kentucky Derby is to win races that are shorter than the

Kentucky Derby. That's the only option, by the

way, is to compete well in races that are shorter than the

Kentucky Derby, because the Kentucky Derby is longer than

all of the prep races. All of them.

OK, So it's OK, it's a horse when a mile on a 16th in

February, OK, Like that's OK at this point.

Now it's always going to be slower because it's the Tepeda.

It's always going to be these other things.

And so that part, if you wanted to tell me it was difficult to

make that kind of comparison going to dirt, whatever, I'll

listen to that part of it. But as far as getting the mile

on a 16th at this point to be, that's only a positive.

Yes, only a. Positive.

So I take it you liked the win? I liked it a lot.

I think this is a turf horse for sure, really.

I really do, actually. I think he's a Turpoy for sure.

But we will hear from John Eddis, who will disagree with us

as well. He's only ever run at Turpoy

Park so it's very difficult to know where he's going to end up

after this. As far as it's pretty fair

volatile, you know, obviously a great one, winning sprinter on

the dirt. But Uncle MO, you know, probably

won't have a problem with the dirt.

He seems confident. John told us on Saturday night

that he's trained well over he trained very well over the dirt

at the thoroughbred center up in Lexington.

So he seems confident the dirt won't be a problem.

Looks like they are obviously the Jeff Ruby's coming up in 4

weeks. It sounds like the Bluegrass is

also strongly under consideration six weeks from

now. Well, six weeks from the

Battaglia 2 days ago. So we might, we might get the

opportunity to see what he can do on the dirt ahead of time

with the Kentucky Derby. So that that would be a plus.

Great White at this point, does he make a, an unofficial sort of

top 10 or top, you know, Derby dozen for for Sean, for Sean

Collins? I don't think so at this point.

I think he's probably maybe in my set that's right below the

top ten and then we'll see what he does in his next effort to to

get in. He could get into that top ten

depending on his next race. But I do, I do look at him,

especially with his size, I do look at him and he's a may foal

on top of that too. So I do look at him as maybe you

know, there's maybe the maturity is not going to be fully there

yet. He could still grow a little bit

and be kind of a big horse here in some of these races in the

summer, but at the moment I liked his win.

I didn't like it enough to necessarily say he'd be a top 10

Derby horse for me right now. Street Beast, last place in this

one. I think all of us have assumed

always going to get back to turf at some point.

Yes, I think at this point, if I'm Ben Colebrook and obviously

I'm not as good at this as he is, I would be pointing to

Keeneland and I try to get this horse on the grass and then

running the American Turf. Yeah, I think of.

I think of. Transylvania and then go to the.

American, I think of him as that kind of level of horse.

I think he showed very well in the Breeders Cup, for example,

like very well in a race that Gustav was always winning and

then frankly ran behind what 2 california-based runners Yep.

So of the entire world, he lost to the best 2 year old turf

horse and then he lost to two local specialists.

I mean, like I I think he's very, very good.

I I'm excited, frankly, to see him back on grass and I think

that's where he we'll end up. I think Saturday once in a while

races are just confirmation of what you what would be best for

a horse. And hey, one before this.

Nope, Nope. No shame in any of that.

Frankly, no shame in trying the Tepeda and trying this route to

the Derby. If you're if you're especially

if your owners want to try or whatever it might be or that

just wants to have a Derby runner.

I know you agree with that, But you know, I think getting back

to the turf makes a lot of sense with this horse And I think,

yeah, get back to get to Churchill, Lots of opportunities

for street piece moving forward. Can I make my bold prediction

out of the? Exactly please.

I think Baytown Dreamer is going to sneak into the Derby field

somehow because he got third in the Smarty.

He ended up I think 4th here. He's I'm like if he runs.

This is the West Saratoga this year is what you're saying?

Yes, like if he runs. Like third accumulate accumulate

he's. Going to run third in the Ruby

and then we already saw him wheel back quickly between the

southwest of the Battaglia. So say he runs third in the

Ruby, he wheels back and like runs 4th or 5th in the Bluegrass

and he can snake, he can sneak in on like the, you know, the 20

something points if there's enough horses that drop out.

That's my that's my bold prediction out of this race is

that Baytown Dreamer is going to sneak into the the bottom of the

bottom of the Derby field. I love it.

I also, by the way, Paul Mcatee, if you need to leave Orlando

Boca Chica on board, I get Orlando Boca Chica riding in the

Derby. These are things that I need in

my life. Is Orlando Boca Chica on a Derby

horse next to Joe Ramos or something like these are things

that I do in my life. Do you understand me?

Joe Ramos, the second mount. He's like, hey, young man, how

are you over there? Orlando?

You doing OK? He's like looking down on him,

like as a grandparent, he's real proud.

He's like, you know what? You made it.

You made it. Isn't this the best?

Now let's go run 16th and 17th. All right, Let's bring in John

Ennis. This guy.

I'll tell you what, Poor John Ennis.

I'll tell you what has to do. My radio show a couple weeks

ago. And.

Then we interview him, OK, and then he goes ahead and wins a

Derby prep. So if I'm John Ennis, I would

have enthusiastically signed up for this show knowing that I was

going to be on it. Hi, John, How are you?

How are you doing lads? All good.

I think so. Not as good as you're doing, of

course. Not as well for sure.

But hey, Saturday night, Turfway Park, your horse wins a Derby

prep. Walk us through it.

Can't believe it wasn't expected to be honest.

It was a kind of a, a good renewal of the race, I thought,

and I just didn't think he was maybe ready for this type of

race just yet. And he went and I thought he'd

run good, but I didn't think he'd go and win like he did.

And no, it's crazy Dream. Can't believe it?

Well, take us through a little bit of of his maturation over

the last few months. I know you told us when we were

talking to you after the race on Saturday night that at one point

you guys kind of backed off, sent him back to the farm at 3

Chimneys. He's a huge horse.

So I'm assuming a lot of that is just kind of letting him grow

into himself. Just take us through kind of

these early stages with him. He.

Was the same as any other horse really, but he was such a big

animal that we knew and probably taught in our own head up he

might and probably would take a break during the summer of his

two year old career of getting him going and he did.

So we kind of just backed off him and I think we gave him 60

days at the farm of just basically doing nothing.

And at that point we decided to geld him, which I think was a

smart move because he was such a big horse and he's probably 1200

lbs now. So if we left him as a cold, he

probably would have been too heavy, might not have even

started yet. So we made the decision to get

them and you know, it's look, it's great.

He's it's lighten them up a little bit.

Obviously he's still kind of a weak horse.

But yeah, today as soon as he came back in from the farmer to

get and we kind of just move, you know, we stopped a little

bit just to body catch up again. But we kind of move right along

with him and everyone means great.

Trader John Ennis with us, of course.

Great White, the winner of the Battaglia Saturday night at

Turfway Park, 20 points on the road to the Kentucky Derby with

that win you mentioned. Not an expected win, John.

And look, 12 horse field never know what's going to happen, but

talks through the process of deciding to run him in this

race. Well, kind of this time of year,

but he won his maiden this time of year and horse wants to go

two turns, especially with Leonatis and Battaglia and then

Ruby coming. There's not many races from the

elder and allowance might not feel a tough way.

And I want to keep him here at home.

So he was he was very good in in his maiden win and he didn't

disgrace in his in the Leonatis and he didn't have a great trip.

And St. Beast was your favorite and they

only got beat 4 1/2, four and three quarter lengths behind

him. So, yeah, you know, wait around

for an allowance that might not go or take a shot going a little

bit further in in the Battaglia. That was my thinking.

I look, I think he's, I think he's a nice horse, but I didn't

think he was ready for this yet or I didn't think he was going

to do what he did because I know he's probably going to be bigger

and stronger next time. Well, when you were talking to

us the other night, you kind of mentioned how you kind of told

the Three Chimneys team this might be a nice summer horse for

us. So kind of kind of showing that

expectation, the fact that. He here in February, is that

where we're at? Yeah, I guess.

I guess we're looking at. But.

But but now that he has won this race in his third star, he's on

the Derby trail now in February, what does that just say about

kind of his raw talent level? And then once his body and

everything else kind of catches up to him, what what we could

expect from him moving forward. Yeah, he's he's obviously got

immense talent to do what he did first and foremost.

Wasn't expected to win first time out, didn't think he'd win

going 6 furlongs. But as you know, that's what

good horses do and Derby horses do to win first time I going

short. Umm, So yeah, his, his talent is

definitely there and, and moving forward, we're super excited.

Uh, I'm going to train and like evolvers kind of train him.

He doesn't need much galloping and he will eventually as a

summer progresses when he gets to be fills out, but he's still

only a frame. So I just want to get him to

either the Ruby or the Bluegrass.

Like he was coming into the Battaglia just feeling good

about himself. His face.

I just want to get his legs underneath him.

And yeah, it's just, it's what he did Saturday gives me so much

confidence going forward in whatever race we chose to choose

to win. I'm like, I'm going in there.

Yeah, we're kind of going to be an outsider and maybe

overlooked, but kind of not scared of anyone really.

Well, take us through that decision process.

So on one one hand, you have the JF Ruby at Turfway, a track that

he's proven over, a track that you know he can handle.

On the other hand, you have the Bluegrass.

It gives you extra time before the race, six weeks instead of

four weeks. And you also get to take a shot

at the dirt before the Kentucky Derby as well.

See if he can handle that. So what?

What will that decision process be like over the next couple

weeks? It will be totally him, it'll

totally be the horse. How he physically looks.

He looks fantastic now. He he came out a race so good,

so good. So it'll be him physically how

he looks when they're that big. You have to physically look at

how much this race has taken out of him physically.

So that'll be a big factor. Where do we go 5 weeks or a

month back to Ruby? It's one of those things if you

run, hopefully he gets points to get into the Derby.

You know, I think if he runs in the first three, it might be

enough points to get into the Derby, uh, in either race.

But you kind of, do you run back in four weeks and you give

yourself 5 weeks to Derby or do you run, run back now in five

weeks and give yourself 4 weeks to Derby.

So it's kind of a like the Rubio probably could have 14 runners

and the Bluegrass might only have 9 or 10.

And so, yeah, I don't think, I don't think there's a wrong

decision. So I'm not going to dwell on

that much. I'm not going to like drive

myself crazy thinking which is right.

He's going to tell us. And when he's ready to run,

he'll tell us and that'll be the decision.

And if he's good enough, he'll get there.

And if he's not, he's not. That's the way it's going to be.

Another interesting thing that I thought you mentioned the other

night was Keeneland. The track is bigger, the oval's

bigger, and it seemed like you, you thought that that could

maybe play better for him as the big horse that he is.

Just what? What's your mindset on that?

Yeah, he's a he's a look. He breathes in the dirt here at

the training center. He breathes really good.

Looks like a nice horse in the dirt.

He's never been over the Keeneland track.

He's never been in a race in the dirt.

The bigger sweeping turns of Keeneland can only suit him, can

only help him. His straight land is like, I

think he's near 26 feet. Yeah, I think 25.8 or so.

He's he's he's up there. He's like he's yeah, I was just

checking at the weekend after his straight land is, is pretty

big. I think true chimneys do all

this straight logistic stuff under horses and stuff and he's

like might have been the second biggest I've ever had like and

he's still not there. Like I think he gets stronger

and longer as yeah, so so yeah, I don't think it'll be a hinder

him might like every probably say should go to the Ruby

because he's so polished a tough way and whatnot.

But you can get a lot of unlucky runs at the in the Ruby and not

get look and run in and finish 6th beaten 2 lengths or length

and a half and not getting your trip that you you wanted to.

And then obviously you're not in the Derby then and the Derby's

not to be all and end all. But we're kind of on it now.

So we're kind of going to try and choose the right path if we

can. That's the voice of John Ennis,

of course, trainer Great White, winner of the Battaglia over the

weekend. When you and I spoke on the

Kentucky Racing Spotlight just a few days ago, John, you talked

about your approach and and each horse being an individual in

your barn. Great White, a son of Volatile.

Did any part of you wonder about the the two turns thing or did

you just see the size of this guy go?

No, he wants two turns. No, 100%.

I was like this is a big sprinter, this is just a big

sprinter. But the guys at Trey James

assured me all the family are middle distance in Brazil.

They sort of get two turns, I think, and I don't know if he

will and everybody kept telling me and that was just me, the

trainer inside me think doubting Umm.

But now that I've seen him run twice two turns, I've no doubt

that he will get the two turns. And I don't think the man of the

quarter is going to be a problem for him because, umm, the other

horse, Brad source was catching us, but we we galloped out in

front and I don't think gotten past and galloping out.

So and he's just he's totally it's just his third run.

He's his third run. He's his you know, he's just his

third race. He's a may fall.

He's massive. There's he's only exposed.

There's, there's so much, there's so much more to come

from this House, so much more. You've mentioned 3 chimneys a

couple of times. Not only do you train this

horse, you Co own the horse with three chimneys as well.

How did that come together? I know it can't kind of came out

of him being available in the digital sale as a yearling.

Just take us through that story. Yes, he was on a digital sale.

I look at every horse every sale nearly and I just love them as a

year. I love them and I went out to

see him at a farm and they purchased them and not kind of

not more much more of it. And six weeks later they called

me up and see would I like to get into a partnership with

them. Jumped at the chance privilege

to get an apparently with three chimneys.

But I wasn't doing it because it was 3 chimneys.

I was doing it because I like the horse and.

They'll have been super easy to deal with from the minute we we

got together. And Gonzalo is a huge supporter

of the game. And he said, John, I'm just

you're, you're driving this bus, He said you're they don't put

in, they don't put out whatever I want to do.

They don't questions or any decisions that I get wrong,

it'll be on me because they're leaving me drive this train.

Yeah, talking his relationship, of course, with three Chimneys

farm with whom he owns great White, who's now on the Derby

trail, whether John wants him to be or not, it sounds like.

And so big boy is a little bit ahead of schedule.

I mean, John is this, you know, ask it kind of a different way.

Is this part of the great part of your job?

Is that stuff like this just, you know, you know, you're like,

I got a big spreader here. Great this is going to be great

and we'll figure it out. We'll do the we'll do the big

spreader thing and then all of a sudden he wants two turns and

you're on the Derby trail because you just, you know, you

made the right choice in a digital sale.

I mean, what, what a weird job you have, John, In the best way

it's. It's crazy, isn't it?

It's crazy to even think about it.

Like I'm not training that long. I don't have that many horses in

comparison to the guys. I don't know how them big guys

do it because they're I take my hat off them is such a hard

grind. This training is so hard.

And I have another horse in three years in the second horse

in I think 3 or 4 years, three years to be on the Derby

trailer. It's just a dream.

Like I think if he does get there, like I'm going to enjoy

it more. This time.

Last time with Epic, it was kind of we're on the outside looking

in and kind of, but if he does get enough points and I'm just

going to enjoy it, I'm going to enjoy it.

There's no pressure. I say on have to horse myself

with three champions, so there's zero pressure and I'm not going

in there thinking we're just not around.

Like I think this horse is legit.

He's a legit two turn horse. He got a high cruising speed, so

I don't think there's going to be any problem if he does get

there. I'm like, do you know what?

I have a have a shot with this horse because he's he's a nice

horse and he's unexposed John. You know, everyone can hear your

accent. You even said it on radio the

other day. Obviously I'm from Ireland.

You said the Derby thing over here.

How do you find it? And do you, you obviously enjoy

being on the Derby trail. How do you how do you find the

Derby over? Here, Oh sure, it's fantastic,

sure it's it is like 0 pressure it there's no it's, it's I think

it's every training's dream. You know I said years ago when I

came over here first, but must have been here 10 or 12 years

and I said I'd never go to Derby unless I had a runner in.

And then the following year, year after Epic came along and

now this year again, Great White and Genie Mac, if I can get him

to Derby, it'll it'll be just A and there's no, I said there's

no pressure. There's no wrap him up in cotton

wool. There's no just let him be a

horse. He's still if it's meant to be,

it's meant to be. And if he's going to take, he's

going to take you there. But I'm I wouldn't swap him,

especially here in Kentucky for any other horse.

Well, you, you look at what you accomplished a few years ago

with Epic Ride being in the Derby and you kind of kind of

mentioned that it kind of you don't expect yourself to be in

this position of having another Derby horse already.

But that's just a real testament to your training, your clientele

as well that your your stable is getting better over the last

couple of years hasn't. It well, look, it's I think, you

know, it's I don't know it's what it is.

Maybe a lot of luck probably that you just get these horses

and find these horses. But yeah, no, I've I've I

couldn't do do it without the team have back in the barn and I

couldn't do with all my good staff, my riders, the clients

have been with me from the start and new clients have came on

board. They're all loyal, they're all

supportive and and yeah, just that's what every trainer needs

to progress is get on a Derby trail, get those better horses,

get the better bred horses and turn up on them Saturdays and

them stakes. And so it's, I'm only a small

cog in the wheel. That's I'm, yeah, I kind of,

I'm, I don't know how to say it, but I'm not, I'm not, I'm only a

small cog. Basically they're, I'm just kind

of trying to point in the right direction.

All the rest of the guys are there helping me.

Jon Hennes is trying to say he's not the star of the show.

That's what I'm trying to say the.

Horses are absolutely the start of the show.

The. Horses.

The horses are the stars. The horses I couldn't, you know,

I the horses are them. They're the everything you know.

Well, Speaking of the stars of the show, we've mentioned Epic a

couple times. He on Saturday returned to the

work tab for the first time this year, I believe.

What can we expect from him this year?

We saw him win the mint millions at Kentucky Downs.

How do you look? How do you look and what can we

expect from him as the year goes on?

He's training. He he it's funny he works

Saturday morning and Great White was leaving to go to turf at

about 3:00 3/30 and we came back there to ship the horses to turf

at that evening and I don't know was it the trailer outside or

epic just having his first work, but he was late or he was

fucking installed crazy at the take him out with lip chain give

him a walk. He is like he's awake.

He thought he was going racing he's ready.

I think he he looks fantastic. We gave him a little vacation

there just because he's a hard campaign of last year and he's

come back bigger stronger looks fantastic.

He's, I love the horse. He's just, he's sound, he's

great demeanor. He tries every time.

So yeah, he's going to be, he's going to be shooting for

Keenan's the second weekend in April.

Cool. There you go.

We'll have to ride return a cube.

Why not? There you go, John Adams.

Makers, Makers Mark, Hopefully, yeah.

Let's go home, get that grade one win on and speaking.

Of Alex Shark by the way. No big deal.

But no, you have a very interesting 3 year old filly in

your barn who finally lost in 2026 and her name is Coco

Connect. But you look, you wheeled her

back. You tried her on the Bourbon at

Oaks Trail here. The Oaks Trail is sort of in

general, John, I like her a ton. We just talked about her a

couple weeks ago. How'd she come out of the race

and what's her next? What do you think her next

steps? Are Yeah, she's a beautiful

Philly. Not much smaller than great

white, to be honest. Big Philly, probably.

Probably 17. Right now you gotta say you're

going to be a big horse. That's right. 17 hands.

She must be 17 hands. Very close, but she's a lovely

Philly. Very unassuming, quiet, laid

back Philly which you wouldn't think.

You think it's two turns but no, she doesn't get the two turns.

She kind of needs to be revved up speed, came out to race

fantastically, looks great. So she's going to have an easy

week or 10 days and then she's going to be aimed for opening

weekend. A Keeneland for the Bournemouth

on 7/8 and dessert. She broke her maiden a Keeneland

and I think she'll be, you know, should be a big price in there

but there's a good chance she'll run a big race in there.

Might not be a big price, might bring your odds down.

On. That that's our plan anyway.

That's where she's going to be. Yeah.

Well, you, you mentioned a couple times when you've been

listening some of these ideas as far as races go for the horses

where we want to stay in Kentucky.

And you said it the other night as well when you were talking

about either the Jeff Ruby or Bluegrass or Great whites final

prep. What is it about Kentucky racing

that is so special and that you want to be involved in?

It's the best race in the country in my opinion.

The money is so good. It attracts big owners, big

horses, well bred horses. I live here.

I support it. Don't let anyone tell you that

maidens in Kentucky are not strong.

The maidens here are tough way, can run in any maidens in the

country. They can run any.

You win a maiden here in Kentucky, you win an allowance

or a stake. They're legit horses.

So tough way, kind of back years ago, 568 years ago, you know,

they were, they were softer maidens, but not anymore.

These are legit horses, legit races, full fields.

So yeah, I think like the Battaglia was a good race.

I think the Ruby will be exceptional race this year.

And then obviously the the Bluegrass.

So they're they're good preps, they're good maidens, good races

and what we want, great competition.

And great purses. Nothing wrong.

With any he's trader John Ennis. Well, congratulations.

Thanks so much for jumping on the show, despite having to have

talked to me on a radio show. And Sean in a winner's circle.

It's a lot of exposure. We'll we'll give you a couple of

weeks off from talking. Let's give.

John, some time here, doesn't have to do this stuff anymore.

Well, John, thanks so much. Have a great rest of the week,

bud. Thanks lads, appreciate it.

Thank you. There you go.

Take care of us with us. Appreciate him being on the

program with us here on Blood Horse Monday.

This is such a fun time of year. I love these interviews.

Last year we met the Habermans. This year we know guys like John

who he's got talented horses that belong in the Derby.

Yeah, again, like, like, that's just fun.

And so it's nice to see these guys.

It's also interesting to hear a guy like John say out loud, I

don't know how the guys with more horses do it.

Yes, right. It's interesting to hear that

because we kind of assume, oh, once you get to a certain size,

it's this. It's probably not.

It's everyday, it's 4:00 AM. It's all the pigs.

So we appreciate John jumping on the program.

You were there the other night. Did you get a sense of, Because

I just got a sense of a little bit of surprise from him that

his horse put it all together for this one.

Did you have a sense of the moment that he was like that

too? Yeah.

That, that, that's why when when you asked me earlier on the show

before Jon came on, whether or not he would be in my top ten at

this point, that was why I said no.

It's because, and I didn't want to spoil it before Jon got on,

but just there was there was a level of surprise that they

ended up winning the race afterwards, which, you know, if

you're thinking about who's going to win the Kentucky Derby

at this point, you're it's not exactly what you're looking for

surprise in the connections. But hey, that just shows that

this horse is ahead of schedule, that he is a very talented horse

and that he could potentially make some noise here as we go

forward. But I also, you know, between

talking with him Saturday, between talking with him here

today, just the kind of hearing him talk about being part of the

Kentucky Derby experience and just kind of the awe.

Of. Being having another horse on

the trail, the first time I ever met John was the morning of Epic

Rides running the Derby two years ago.

And I was just, I was up on the viewing stand waiting to see if

anybody came out to train at the at the time before I closed the

track and then opened the gates for the crowd.

And he came up on the viewing stand and we just talked for a

little bit and he was just kind of soaking it in a little bit.

Calm before the storm. Yeah.

You know, he, he probably had a pretty, pretty interesting week

in terms of, you know, to be wondering whether or not Epic

Ride was going to actually run since he was on the also

eligible list and everything. Like that?

Yeah, he was 21. Yeah, that the only horse that

came out to train during that time was Mugatu, who was #22

didn't. Get in.

But yeah, but yeah, well, he, he ran in the Preakness.

Yeah. But but yeah, so but it was like

it was. And you heard him say, like, I'm

going to enjoy it more this time if I make it.

And I was going to ask him, you wanted to ask another question,

which is obviously fine. I was going to ask him if it's a

little like I remember parts of my wedding day, but it's largely

A blur, right? 150 people were very nice and

showed up and brought us things and all the stuff.

Thanks for being there. I don't remember it.

And so I wonder if 30 days are a bit like this, right where it's

just a whirlwind and you've got this connection, you've got

this, you got a sponsor, someone from Churchill's like, hey, you

got to be at this spot. We need you for media over here.

I'm positive parts of it are very unpleasant, yes.

Well, and on top of that, one of the things that I thought was

interesting for him to say is he can be more relaxed this time

because he owns half the horse. So you're not necessarily you

don't have to juggle the expectations of the ownership on

top of it, which. Well, and it's 3 chimneys they

don't they they. Know.

They know what it's. They know what it's.

Like you know what your partner is somewhat like 3 chimneys and

not no offense, whatever other owner that hasn't been in a spot

like this before, 3 chimneys is going to know.

What that means, I've seen it just in the two years that I've

I've done the Derby for Blood Horse, I've seen, I'm sure

you've seen it as well where you know, some of these trainers

that sometimes it's like they you can tell in the back of

their mind, they know that the horse is not going to succeed.

And I don't want 1/4 on dirt in the Kentucky Derby.

But you know, they got to they got to put the smile on.

They got to put the comments out that, you know, they think they

got a chance because you got to please the owners.

And obviously I've advocated before, if your horse qualifies

for the Derby, I think you should go and.

Then there's endless 'cause that's the.

There's a race in the. World, right?

There are horses that exist that for whom the Derby was not a

good decision. Yes.

There are very few, though, and that's the thing, right?

Whitmore finished last in the Derby.

And then he comes back in as a champion sprinter if.

You like, it's OK that Whitmore was last in the Derby, yes,

Everyone's fine. But Mendelssohn was last in the

Derby. He's fine, yes.

Exactly. So you know, I definitely

support that, but just like hearing from the trainer, like

all right, if I make it there, like this is really my

opportunity to just sit back and enjoy the experience I don't

have. I don't have to call, call

somebody the second the horse finishes training and give them

an update. I don't have to worry about

allowing all the owners, friends that came with them to the race

into the barn to see the horse. You know, you can kind of be a

little bit more all those kind of extra things that we don't

necessarily always think about that add up when when you have

the stress of being a trainer, making sure the horse is ready

to go for a Saturday and you have all this extra stuff, kind

of put some of that aside. You can kind of sit back and

relax a little bit. So hope hopefully for John, he

Great White will make it to the Derby.

He can sit back, relax and enjoy that experience and what it's

like, yeah, not just be a Kentucky Derby trainer, but a

Kentucky Derby owner. The other part of that that was

so awesome was that John just casually said hi.

I sure am on the Beaumont Hi. He'll come back after.

I'll be back to Keeneland like he just.

OK, Yeah. Must be nice.

That's good stuff for sure. By the way, he's wrong.

She's not going to be like 20 to one on the Beaumont.

Yeah, because you're going to like, you're going to bet the

house. No, because she broke her baby.

Keeneland is the rent people's faces off at Turfway come.

On stop hyping her up if you want a good price.

Did you see the handle on the Cincinnati trophy after I didn't

show up about see that? Huh?

How about that? Well, was was your show 4 hours

A. Little record.

Little record on the Cincinnati Trophy.

There you. Go all because of Louis.

It's only only because. It's not because of a giant,

giant field and a very good, you know any of those things.

All right. Well, we have other other very,

very good things to get to in here, including an Obs interview

with our friend Olivia, who has been on here, and a Derby dozen

with our friend Byron King, of course at Blood Horse

bloodhorse.com. Where would you like to go

first? Well, we're on Derby topic, so

we might as well stick with the Derby.

So we'll we'll talk to Byron King here.

He's our news editor. At by we, we mean Sean.

Yes, yeah, that's true. I talked to him in the Blood

Horse office a couple days ago. So this was this was pre

Battaglia. So no conversation about great

here in this interview, but the Derby Dozen is a feature series

that we run on bloodhorse.com. You can also find it in the

Blood Horse Daily every single Tuesday, where Byron King will

rank his top 12 runners on the path to the Kentucky Derby.

Last year, as Louie mentioned at the top of the show, he had

sovereignty in the number one spot from the very first week

and he never left the number one spot.

And then he won the Kentucky Derby.

So I'd say that was that was a pretty good call on Byron.

Not a bad job by. Unfortunately, we're not going

to see the same success this year because he had Ted Noffy on

top of the first two weeks and then Ted Noffy got injured and

had to jump off The Dirty trail. Yes, you know, if the Ted Noffy

folks would just come on this show.

Oh wait. Blunt horse Monday boat.

Yes, it won the British Cup. Yeah, we did the job.

We did the job there, but but so this is this is a great feature,

one of our probably one of our most popular features on bullet

horses website. So if you have not checked it

out, make sure you do every single week.

Byron also does a video edition every Tuesday where he'll

explain maybe some of the changes kind of talk about the

recent prep races. So I'm sure tomorrow he'll kind

of mention what what his thoughts were on Great White

this weekend and kind of what he's expecting from some of

these Derby preps coming up. So yeah, it was kind of

interesting to hear his logic as far as how he decides what

horses are Derby Dozen worthy. And so I think it's a pretty

cool interview. So we'll go ahead and check.

That out in 2026, we're going to try to keep you up to date with

what is happening at Blood Horse and bloodhorse.com by

introducing you to more of the people that make the place go.

Byron King is certainly one of those people.

Here's Sean's interview with him.

We're here in the Blood Horse offices this week.

I'm with Byron King, our news editor here at Blood Horse, to

talk a little bit about the Derby Dozen, which you can find

on Blood Horses website every single Tuesday.

Byron, let's just kind of start off by talking a little bit

about what is the Derby Dozen. Well, as its name suggests, it's

my top 12 rankings of horses that I think would be well

suited to winning the Derby. And it's not based on the

moment, in other words, like who might win the next mile in the

16th race. But it's on a, you know, a basis

of who might accept on that first Saturday in May at

Churchill Downs Mile and 1/4 in front of 150,000 people.

So when you're looking at first making these rankings, these

always start off kind of in the middle of January around that I

believe is it right after the Lecompte, correct.

So at that time of year when you're first putting these

rankings together, what are those key factors that you're

looking for in horses to make them a Derby Dozen type of

horse? That's a great question.

But things like class, speed, figures, staying ability, and

then trying to weigh which horses might be on the upswing,

you know, which ones might, you know, if you had a horse that's

say, debuting in June or July, that trainer likely viewed his

two year old as very precocious. And so that horse might not have

as much upside to get better at 3:00 because they were quick

developing types, right? So those kinds of horses tend to

get diminished, but you try to look for those that have some

staying power that maybe show something over a routed ground.

And you look back at last year's Kentucky Derby, from the very

first posting that you had, you had sovereignty in that number

one spot. At that point, he'd only won the

Street Cent Stakes. He'd, he'd been, I guess, off

for two months, hadn't been in a race at that point.

What was it about him that set him apart at that point to where

he ended up leading the rankings all the way through the Derby?

Well, it was very fortuitous that he did.

I'm glad that he did, you know, But but he showed me so much in

that race. He won by like 5 lengths, but he

circles the field, he blew past them.

And I felt like that race was very telling in terms of this

was a horse that's going to love a mile and 1/4 and clearly did

it at Churchill Downs, so the track wasn't going to be an

issue. And of course, it helps that

he's trained by Bill Mott and, you know, by Into Mischief.

And he also was very different than your standard kind of

speedball. He was a very leggy horse, a

horse that had a wonderful stride on him.

That's another consideration. Usually longer striding horses

are better, more effective routers than smaller horses.

That's not always true. You know, you get some horses.

Last year, for example, Cole Battle was on the smaller side,

but you know that that may have shown up a little bit in the

Derby for him. You know, he didn't stay the

mile and 1/4 as well as some of the others or may just simply

not have been good enough. That happens too.

But sovereignty just kind of had it all together.

And some of the runners from last year were a little more

suspect in, in terms of a mile and 1/4.

I think a lot of people like Citizen Bowl and whatnot.

A lot of people kind of thought, I don't know about him and a

mile and 1/4. This year was going to be

different with Ted Nafi because he looked legitimate and he was

#1 to begin the year. But of course, he is off the the

Derby. Trail So unfortunately we're not

going to have two straight years of you nailing the.

Horse right, start to finish right.

Very hard to do. Yes, but so this year, right now

at the top of your rankings is Paladin coming out of his Risen

Star Stakes. What is it about him that gives

him the number one spot right now?

Well, he's got 2 graded winds at a mile and an eighth.

He cost $1.9 million at auction. You know he's the son of Gun

Runner. He is an imposing horse with a

beautiful stride. But beyond all those things,

what I loved in his Risen Star was it was a race that he

probably should have lost in terms of the way it unfolded.

There was a loose leader in Chip Poncho who was cruising up

front. Looked like initially he was

going to spurt away from him and he just kept coming after him.

I mean, he showed that kind of determination that really

defines a quality horse. And to do it at a mile and an

eighth and finish strong at the end points to him like a mile

and 1/4. So I brought him up from 3rd to

1st, passing my top ranked tours at that time, which was further

ado the Kentucky Jockey Club winner from last fall.

So you had. Further Ado second behind Ted

Nafi for those first couple rankings and then he took over

the number one spot when Ted Nafi got sidelined.

What was it about him that kind of had him in that number one

spot and then kind of reading after you've now put Paladin in

the number one spot, kind of reading your explanation about

Further Ado afterwards. Seems like now you can see some

reason as to why he isn't necessarily the top horse

anymore. What was your initial impression

and now how has your opinion changed seeing Paladin?

Well, number 1, he was a kind of a fringe #1 for me anyway.

You know, I felt like Ted Nafi was kind of up here.

Everybody else was down here, you know.

And but what I do like about Further Ado is his two routes

have resulted in wins. The first one in Keeneland, he

broke his maiden by 20 lengths. And then he came back and he won

the Kentucky Jockey Club. Now he won that race.

He won by a mile. Excuse me?

He won by a length and 3/4, but I don't.

In hindsight, looking at the Kentucky Jockey Club, the runner

up was Universe. Universe, by contrast, was

fourth in the Risen Star. Some of the other runners that

ran in the Kentucky Jockey Club have not gone on to distinguish

themselves thus far. Soldier and Diplomat who was

third did come back and was second in the Southwest, but

that's kind of like the best example of a good effort.

Right. So I don't know that Further Ado

beat the greatest field in the Kentucky Jockey Club, but he did

win and I think he is a horse that has a very, very bright

future. His two wins at Mile and 16th

though compared to Mile and 8th for Paladin.

Now when you look at kind of the rest of your rankings, I believe

you have nearly third. Is he a horse or any of the

other horses that maybe you have down in those lower spots you

kind of have on you know if they give one more solid performance

in their next race could really kind of shoot up and join

Paladin that top conversation it.

Could happen. You just really never know when

it's going to happen. I think that's one of the

reasons why we see the Kentucky future wager, the Kentucky Derby

future wager, You see the all others always take so much

support because they can literally come out of nowhere.

Horses are really developing as spring 3 year olds and they can

dramatically improve their form from race to race, so it would

not be a total surprise. Also, I'm really curious to see

how some of these California horses run in the coming weeks.

You know, some of the biggest, the names out there, the the

Brants and the litmus tests, those horses have not yet run

this year. So we'll get a little bit more

of a barometer on them and and have an idea whether they're at

the top of the division or or farther down.

I'm interested in kind of when you get toward the bottom of the

rankings, like when you get down to that 10th, 11th, 12th place.

Is there anything like that will help determine those, especially

as we start getting a month into the future where you can start

seeing who's going to have the points to qualify.

Do you start kind of, does that start weighing into them being

part of the list at all at? This point I don't weigh 2

points too much because I think there's they obviously go up so

much in value. The original Star was the the

first race that had 50 points to the winner, and that essentially

puts anybody who wins it in the Derby, right.

So these horses can very quickly earn their place if they score

coming up. But I will, as we get closer,

start looking at it a little bit.

I mean, for a while last year, even though I viewed him like a

lot of people as a major contender, I didn't have Baeza

in the top 12 because it looked like he wasn't going to get a

spot. And.

And you'll recall that he was on the also eligible list and

needed to scratch to even get in.

Yeah. So it wasn't that I didn't like

his race. He ran great when he was second

and the Santa needed Derby, but his points total put him at a

disadvantage. Yeah.

All right. So every Tuesday we can find

this on the website. You also do a little video

explanation as to your changes week by week as well.

We can find that on Blood Horse website.

Anything else you. Want want to tell the public?

About the Derby dozen. No, I just, I appreciate the

fans really seem to dig the feature.

They really like it and both from my predecessors who wrote

it as well as what I've contributed to it, so I'm very

appreciative of their support. He's the hot hand right now.

He had sovereignty all of last year.

Let's see if he can nail another Kentucky Derby this year.

Well, Byron King on a Tuesday. Yeah.

So why not? And you talked to him on a

Wednesday? I did.

This is Blood Horse Monday. Yes, and we had, we had the

bookshelf in the background. Look, I just dart it.

Dart it sometimes strong. You just have to do things

yourself. Do you understand?

You have great ideas and I'm an idea man, but I need to be a

doer. That's what I.

Need you need to put a bookshop? An idea for something called

Blood Horse Money. Now we do it, but I had to do it

like I do this every. I've never missed an episode.

It's embarrassing, frankly. I should take a vacation.

Like other people know how to vacation.

I'm not good at that. I just change where I work.

It's bad. Iron King, though.

Well, Paladin on top. Yeah.

Now that is very full circle with this show, of which we know

that you know Brooke Smith, big fan of this show, owner of

Paladin, same ownership group as horse named Sierra Leone.

Does he finish third in the Derby this year?

If Sierra Leone finished second. Or second, it's a good joke.

Stand by the joke. Who's the Mystic dam of this

year? Since obviously Paladin made

it's great. What?

Get it done, John, I'm done. But any big issues with the

current dozen? No, I, I mean I obviously I have

nearly my number one paladin's a close #2 for me at this point.

I got. Paladin on top, so I agree with

the. But you know, I completely agree

with what Byron's saying at this point.

He's proven the mile an eighth twice.

And there's nobody that can, nobody on the Derby trail at

this point that can that can match that.

That's right. So, I mean, he Paladin's a

deserving #1I person. He looks green as ever, like

he's going to grow into this too, like he's winning and he's

not there yet. Like John talked about great

white in the in the Battaglia, we're talking about horse and

the Remsen, which is one of the great predictors the last 3-4

years of great success as a three-year old and then coming

back and doing that again, excuse me, at the fairgrounds.

I mean, it's just a remarkable, remarkable turn around between

those two races, you know for sure.

Yeah, but I, I find it interesting, you know, obviously

a lot of a lot of people at this time of year are talking about

their Derby horses. We're very, especially here on

the show, we're very caught up in, you know, what happened this

past weekend. But I like what Byron said at

the beginning where his the goal of this rankings is from the

very start in January, we're already looking at who's going

to be the mile and a quarter classic horse, right.

And so so you know, kind of gives you, gives you that kind

of basis. Obviously he nailed it to

sovereignty last year. Things got a little different

this year, thrown out of whack when Ted Nafi defected from the

race because he as a last year he will cut and shoulders above

everybody else. So now we're kind of seeing

who's going to fill in now that in his absence.

And so it'll be interesting to see whether or not there's any

changes or it seems like Paladin that can be the kind of that

horse that's going to last at the top of the rankings from now

till till the end. So very cool to see if you want

to check out this weekly feature on Blood Horse's website.

At the top of the Blood Horse home page, you'll see like tab

for the Triple Crown and then you'll see Byron King's Derby

dozen right underneath that. So click on that.

Once again, those come out every Tuesday on bloodhorse.com and

then you can catch it in the daily the following.

I still think you're a bum, Byron, but thanks for jumping on

the show, by the way. Come in my favorite word, Vegas

language. Calling someone a bum.

Just yeah, so nice. It just feels so good.

Sports talk radio does that to you.

Commandment is the one in the top five that I'm fascinated by

and I appreciate that. Is one look into Mischief Orb on

the damn side. I mean, good gosh.

The Derby sire and the Derby winner.

I mean, give me all of it, right?

I mean, that's the one. I haven't seen him on two turns,

though. We will see him in the Fount of

Youth most likely coming up this weekend.

I yeah, I got no real issues with this.

I'm with you. I'm a little higher, higher on

nearly than he. Is, yeah.

So that's it. Yeah.

It's fine. But otherwise, just some sales

talk man Tom Wojcosky. We've had him on the show before

from OBS Sales, talked with our friend Olivia Newman from

bloodhorseofcoursebytheway@bloodofbloodhorse.com. All the great stuff, stallions

of breeding, the sales, all of that.

Just a tab at the top of the homepage.

Whatever you're interested in, if it is racing, if it's the

breeding of the sales, if it's all of it.

By the way, one stop shop, bloodhorse.com.

I'll leave you a part of that great team over at Blood Horse.

This conversation though, a big change, Sean, in the under tax

sale and how they essentially, I shouldn't say that not just the

sale itself, but in the some of the safety measures as we

modernize some of these aspects of our our game.

So what should we be listening for?

Here Well, yeah, well, for, for if you're joining us and maybe

you're not as familiar with with the sales.

So the OBS is coming up with their two major their two major

2 year olds in training sales here.

One the first one coming up in March, I believe it starts March

10th or it's that week and then the next one in April at.

So as part of these, since these two year olds have already had a

chance to kind of learn how to be a resource a little bit,

start training, you have the under tech show where they'll go

ahead and no breeze in front of potential buyers.

So you can kind of see how they move and and they're running and

all that. So one of the things that OBS

has been working on the last couple years and they announced

last week, some additional safety measures that are going

to be coming with the OBS Under Tech show coming up here in

March. Obviously, that will then carry

over to April and all their other sales as well.

And so Todd sat down with Olivia last week in order to kind of

talk about some of these changes.

You can also find Olivia's full article on these changes on

bloodhorse.com. There you go.

Here's what let me do with Todd Wojkowski down there at OBS

Sales. I'm happy to be joined by Todd

Wojkowski, the Director of Sales at OBS.

How are you doing, Todd? Great.

Thanks for having me, Olivia. Thanks for being on.

Beginning with the March sale, OBS will require all the horses

to be examined prior to the under tax show.

Can you just explain that process a little bit?

Sure. We, you know, we're always

looking for ways to improve. We thought adding these extra

control measures would benefit both buyers and sellers.

So the short of it is every horse to to participate in Inter

Tech Show has to be examined by their attending veterinarian and

approved for participation in the under tact show.

And what is the timeline for the exams?

How far ahead of time do they need to be examined?

So the they cannot be take the exam cannot be done earlier than

72 hours prior to their under tact day and they must be turned

in two days before their under tact day.

In the past we've had, you know, you always have situations where

there's a temporary issue or reason or a horse may not be

able to go one day but can make it later in the week.

You know, as always, we, we work to accommodate those horses.

So there may be a horse that may not be about be able to go early

in the week, but it's OK and cleared to go later in the week.

And we we try to accommodate those horses.

OK. I that's actually the next

question I was going to ask you. If they were pushed to a

different day, will they need a veterinarian's approval for that

as well? Oh yes, and we have that has

always been in place for us that if a horse needed to push later

in the under tax show, we needed a veterinarian statement and a

reason why and then also a a you know, clear to go by that

veterinarian so that that horse could could go later in the

week. What led to Obs Pudding these

new rules into place? Well, I think as as I mentioned

a minute ago, as a company we're working always looking for a way

to improve the way we handle our under tax shows, the way we

handle our sales and trying to make those improvements for the

betterment of both consigners and sellers.

The added control measures made sense.

You know, one thing in addition, this year we've removed the

striking of a horse with the whip outside of their hand, you

know, hands being off the reins. We think that's a step forward

in in animal welfare and in preparing and presenting these

horses. So that's another issue, another

control measure that we added this year.

You know add on top of that the 2 year old sales are the most

tested segment of the auction market.

No other segment, yearlings, weanlings, brood mares are

tested more often and with more stringent rules than the 2 year

old sales. You know last year we upgraded

our medication rules so that there's no incense or no

corticos within 48 hours of another tax show.

Any overages of those medications that we there are

limits involved, any overages are returnable.

So that was a big step forward in medication and testing and I,

I think it's, it can only improve our, our segment of the

market. Are there any talks in the

future of moving to a Gallup only or is OBS, you know,

committed to the timed workouts? Well, first of all, I think, you

know, there's some misnomers there.

Consigners have always had the option to gallop a horse at our

under tech show. They're not required to breeze.

And even last year we made that distinction on the catalog for

those horses that were entered Gallup only it was denoted on

their catalog page. That still exists for us, that

consigners still have that option, and a consignor still

has an option option to gallop a horse at another tech show.

That being said, if a horse does breeze, we have been.

I've been here for a little over almost 15 years as director of

sales, and the one constant that I've always heard from outside

sources was transparency. And there aren't many other

things that are less transparent than having a horse.

A. Breeze and not having a time and

let's be clear that there are a number of Gallup shows they do

it in Europe that are they call them breeze UPS.

Those horses do not have a time attached to them by the sales

company. Yet you see if you ever watched

a video of any of the breeze UPS from Europe, there's electric

eyes all over the rails of people timing horses.

And I think when you don't have an objective, a systematic

method of timing, you then create a lot of opinions rather

than an objective data point. And let's be clear about one

thing. The time of an under attack

breeze is really a data point to be used by buyers along with a

lot of other data points and variables.

Inevitably if you listen to anybody talk about buying horses

at the 2 year old sales, they talked not only about perhaps

time but they also talked about how they looked doing it.

And so there's you know the time is just one metric that that

should be involved in that process.

You know we have had what makes has made the 2 year old sales

and has made the March, the April and the June sale.

What they have become and we are the 2 year old source to the

world is the quality in the success of the horses that have

come out of the sale. I mean all we have to do is look

back last week and we had 7, excuse me, 8 sticks winners,

including the winner of the rabble that are two year old

graduates. If you go back a week or two

before that in the Pegasus, we had the top 2 finishers, both of

them 7 year olds and both of them two year old sales

graduates. And all of those graduates

there's a variety of different at times to attach attach to

them. You know some white Barrio went

in 10 and two Muth went in nine and three just as an example.

There is a range and even Eric Mitchell with, with the blood

horse, you know last year he did his study on the 2 year olds and

and found that, you know, some of these faster horses produce

some of the produce the most stakes winners when you when you

look at it. So time is a metric, it is one

data point. It's not the sole reason, but

it's an objective 1. Speaking of good horses that

have, you know, come from OBS, Eddie Woods had a lot of great

ones. You know, this will be the first

full year without him. So what are your thoughts on

that and who do you think may step up and fill that gap?

Well, whoever it lands in Barn 11 is going to have some mighty

big shoes to fill, that's for sure.

You know, losing a large, not only a large volume consignor,

but also a large number of quality horses, it's going to be

hard to replace. However, I think there's a

number of our younger consignors that we see that will be picking

up. I mean, though a lot of those

horses needed to go somewhere else and they have.

So we'll see our younger consignors step up and I, I, I

have a lot of confidence that that we'll be able to fill barn

11 and. What are your thoughts on the

March sale and the catalog that you have assembled?

Well, I think the, you know, probably 5 or 6 years ago we

made March an open sale. We felt like that buyers needed

a larger catalog to feel good about coming.

And as as the select sales started getting smaller and

smaller in number, it seemed to be less and less appealing to

the the buying market at large. And we've been happy with that

process. You know, we have, you know,

seven Grade 1 winners from the March sale just this last year.

So the quality of horses there, but there's also a volume of

horses to allow buyers to spread out over horses.

And I'm, I'm really excited about the catalog we have for

this year and I think it's going to be a very good sale.

Well, great. Thank you for joining us.

I'll see you in March. OK.

Sounds good. Thank you all.

Right, so a little bit of an upset because I, I think Todd

was one of my favorite guests in 2025.

I feel like I learned a lot from him.

You know, he just brought, he brought receipts like he brought

data. I'm just bring me data like you

know. I'm past performances guy like

give me, give me the hard, give me the numbers, give me the

comments. So are you going to take this

data and go buy a horse? Obviously that's clearly what's

going to happen now is I'm going to get, you know, $700,000

together and just take advantage of this big deal.

I believe in you. It's going to happen.

For sure you can do it. I'm sure your wife will be OK.

Why is Louis a blood horse? Money tomorrow, ugly divorce.

Yeah, we bought a Philly. It's like A2 year old source to

the world for sure in OBS. They do a great job down there.

It was so casual. A couple of seven-year olds, you

know, no big deal. Yeah, we only got white a Mario.

Yeah, move like no big deal. Just names of the sport, you

know, like exactly. That's unbelievable.

It's amazing. Just year after year OBS just

you see it. Speaking of past performances,

you just see OBS LOBSLOBSLOBSL all these big races.

Speaking of which, a trio of Derby preps on the weekend.

You're welcome to join me on Thursday on the Horse Racing

Happy Hour, My personal, my personal podcast as Bobby Eagle

from Blood Horse will join me ahead of their races on

Saturday. Of course, the top pool, the

buscher or both on Saturday as well alongside of Gotham, which

will close the card up there at Aqueduct as we get into the last

Gotham at Aqueduct, as we say that over and over at grade

three mile on the dirt there get a couple of interesting ones in

here and we had a winner in Maryland this last weekend in

Taj Mahal. Second time starter over a mile

in the wide country there or sent out the wide country in the

in the miracle wood. Excuse me?

On the boys side of things, essentially the Tessio Prep

leading into the Preakness out of the Russell barn, scratched

out of that race was Balboa. Yeah, now we know why they're

going to try them on the Derby trail again.

This is the second place finisher in the Jerome and the

third place finisher in the Ramson.

Now watching my world go overseas and watching Paladin

and Renegade show back up like they have makes Balboa to me a

very interesting runner this weekend.

Yeah, I thought he looked good at the Jerome in that race.

I thought both of him and my world ran very well in that

race. So coming right back, doing the

exact same thing one turn mile here at Aqueduct, I don't see

any reason why he can't be successful.

The fact they had him entered in the race in Maryland and then

decided let's go ahead and scratch and send him back up to

New York, that that's a good sign to me.

That means that he's doing well, that they have the confidence to

go ahead and go back in, go back into these races.

I'm interested personally a lot and actually crown the Buckeye.

Yeah, we've we've seen him on the Derby Trail and the gun

Runner and the Lecompt down at Fairgrounds over a mile on the

16th and he ran well setting the pace, but he couldn't really get

it done at the end. Right now he's backing up to A1

turn mile. He.

That was after, by the way, you bring up the point, he was good

in the gun runner. Yeah, Mile on the 16th almost

got almost. Got there for that one.

And now he's turning back to A1 turn mile.

He's not Triple Crown nominated anymore, which means they're now

they're not looking at the Gotham A.

Way to get to the Derby. Yeah, they're looking at this at

which I mean, he's still could end up at the Derby wins against

50 points. You know, he's got the spot if

he wants to do the late nomination here at the end of

March. But he it looks like now they're

looking at all right. You know, this horse is going to

kind of be that one turn horse. Let's go ahead and get him

started and here's a good spot to get him started with that is

is in the Gotham. So I think he's going to run

pretty big this weekend. Spring easily the best spot for

one turn miles in our sport. Like no question you're going to

run them at Aqueduct, you get them at Churchill Downs,

etcetera. Like this is a great time of

year for those things. Crown the Buckeye fits in there

as well. A flashy first time winner in

iron honor. Not easy for me to say so I said

it very slowly. Iron honor, honor iron Iron son

of Nyquist will make his second start.

A blame mayor here. 6 for a long winner in December.

They needed this one to get a little bit of time off.

They shipped them down to Florida.

I imagine they were thinking Gulfstreet Park with this one.

Obviously flaunting of youth, salty as bleep.

We'll talk about that one next. And so it makes sense that he'd

end up back up here. Manny Franco gets them out when

it's Aqueduct and it's him and flopping.

Pratt's not in town. That's the number one rider.

He did have the initial amount as well.

A massive speed figure in that race.

Very good chance he'll be the favorite.

I would say so. A very, very good chance.

And that's just one to watch on the Nyquist, obviously Derby

winner himself. You get blamed on the other on

the damn side. Just one to watch if he shows up

big time in this one, watch for Byron have to talk about him

next week probably. And I'm not kidding because I do

think no, no, no, because I mean that's that's Nyquist, that's

blame. That's what we want to see.

And if he shows it over a mile and he's impressive like he was

on on debut, then I think it's one and.

If you're thinking that far ahead, this is going to be a

nice progression before I'm going from six furlongs up to

the one turn mile and then I'd imagine mile and a for whether

it be the wood or whatever, fun trip racing and so probably.

The wood, frankly, because Chad Brown also trains Paladin, who's

probably going to the bluegrass, right?

So it makes sense that he would probably be.

Too quick to come back for the Louisiana.

This would put him third up in the Derby, third in the fourth

cycle. Yeah, that no, I think this is

all completely planned. And so I they could have run

them in any race before this, any race before this waited for

the Gotham. And I think that you're seeing

exactly why. I would say as far as looking at

Derby potential going forward, I think this horse definitely has

the highest upside in this field.

Upside, yes toward that. I think Balboa's got a dynamite

chance. I I actually texted this from my

friend John Piazza, who works at Yonkers.

Balboa starts in the Derby and Taj Mahal starts in the previous

I could see and she gets both of them and Brandy Russell.

So I, I think it's absolutely on the table.

She does not scratch Balboa out. By the way.

Taj Mahal won the thing in Maryland, by the way, second

start ever wins $100,000 race. And so obviously it makes sense

to move Balboa up to a track where he's very, very

comfortable. I mentioned the fountain of

youth. We get a nice field here.

Fills up full 2 pages on our past performances here as we

look ahead to the mile in the. 60s we got Rockies Palboa in

here. Rockies Balboa.

This going all in on Balboa. This weekend.

A Florida bred called Rockies, which I don't approve of, but

anyways. The finest state of the nation.

Sonic Gervin though Luis Saez picks up the mouth there.

He put 7 furlogs last time. Are we going to get 2 Balboas in

the Derby? I'm not bad at that, Jackson.

How many? How many can we place our wagers

now on? How many people are going to bet

that exacta if they're both in the Kentucky Derby?

Byron's number 4 horse in commandment will make a start

here. Yes, he will try two turns for

the first time for Brad Cox. I read Ortiz gets them out

coming out of the virtual watchman.

Yeah, he looks pretty good in this spot.

I mean, this is really good feel.

If you got Chief Wallaby, you got Napoleon Solo, who's been, I

feel like kind of the forgotten horse he passed out.

Why? Not Bravaro.

Ran second by nearly yeah. I mean, one of the ones I'm

really looking forward to is solitude.

Dude, I don't know how he's going to do here.

Stretching out. Obviously it's on the out pond.

But it's a mischief on the damn side, though.

Into mischief on the damn side. So he's got that going for him.

But I mean, I was. I was is the son of Uncle MO

like it's OK to say out loud, yes, that yell poem because of

we're talking Uncle MO and we're talking at the end of the day,

grandparents we're talking about Uncle MO and into mischief

right. And so there's at least distance

in that, in that sire line on both sides, yes.

But I was, I was, I don't really like to draw here in this race,

talk that out there, but 22 from the outside.

But I, I was at the Swale Stakes on the Holy Bowl undercard and

he, he really impressed me in that race.

So I, I like seeing them taking the shot.

If he doesn't run well here, I'm fully, fully on his bandwagon

going into the Sprint races this year for sure.

I, I really like that horse. I think he's going to be a

pretty good horse. Paddy Mile too far or think he

could do the one. I I, I would, I'd be I'd back

him for that. OK yeah, OK.

So I kind of grew up. Yep.

I didn't think what was the Swale 7 right seven for one was

in the Swale and he didn't look like he was stopping to me at

the end of that race. So I I know the pace was kind of

slow. I didn't let him do whatever he

wanted on the front end there and he still kicked away from

him at the end. Good point.

So I, I really did like that horses, Wayne and the Swale.

So I'm excited to see what he can do stretching out.

He does have a very tough post here, so we'll see it.

Obviously it's a very, very good group of horses this weekend,

but he's the he's the one I'm most interested to see how he

does. Overwhelming win by nearly over

5 3/4 lengths in the Holy Bowl. Last out Project Ace who was

third in that race will not be here but Bravaro who finished

second will be back in here as well.

An interesting one shipping down from the fairgrounds for Todd

Pletcher is Jackson Hole decided not to leave this one up at the

fairgrounds one on debut at Gulfstream Park, though in

December. I think they just wanted a race

shift them up to you know try the two turns at least to

fairgrounds. They get them there.

Nice long stretch there. Less of a stretch to deal with

here, but he's going to try to be on the lead.

And frankly, from for having to break it from the inside.

I think John Velasquez just gonna have to go.

Yeah. And they're just gonna have to

figure it out. And if he's good enough in a

mile in the 16th, the fairgrounds in that long

stretch, you'll probably figure it out at goal stream as well.

So I think he's, if there's a longer shot that I'd be looking

at to send a Nyquist in Jackson Hole.

Yes, yeah. I definitely think he's a big

player in this race. It's interesting seeing, you

know, this was supposed to be the return of Ted Nafi in this

race. It's interesting now seeing with

him gone and this is kind of. Real full field.

Here, I know real full field and it's kind of like one of those

things where now everybody's kind of looking at like, all

right, this is going to, this is our shot.

And then since everybody was thinking along the same lines,

we have a very competitive field in this race.

Chief Wallaby coming out of his debut win for Bill Mott.

So you know it's going to be, this is going to be a very good

race. I'm excited.

I'll be down there on Saturday for it.

I'm very excited. For this is a sport with ebbs

and flows, but right now, because we have such a stacked

stallion roster in sport, these three-year old springs are just

spectacular. Oh yeah, I mean just over and

over and over. I mean like that that that the

race and aqued a great the government great and get down to

Gulf St. Park.

It's great. Now we're going to talk about

the rebel and it's great. I mean, like they're all

legitimately great races and it's really, really fun to watch

these different runners. We see the return of blackout

time here, you and I, by the way, we haven't said anything.

We're going to be at the San Felipe on a big cap day.

And I'll be at the Fountain of Youth and the Rebel this

weekend, so I'm crazy. I'll just let my audience sit in

that one for a second. Blackout time makes his return

here, though. 8 to 5. Morning line.

Is he an 8 to five favorite for you?

So I don't talk to him here. Nine to two, yeah.

Honestly, I was a little surprised to see Blackout Time

the the favorite in here, especially if witness Test drawn

drawn in this race as well coming in for Bob Baffert on the

West Coast. By the way, Bravaro will run at

Gulfstream Park, not at Oklahoma.

OK, Yeah, yeah. So litmus test.

Excuse me, blackout time. We haven't seen him since he was

second to Ted Nafi in the Breeders futurity.

He was scratched a late scratch out of the not a late scratch,

but he was scratched the day of the Breeders Cup Juvenile back

in November at Del Mar. So it'll be interesting to see

how it comes back. I remember from talking to Kenny

Peak, talking to, you know, the team last fall.

They were very high on this horse and they definitely

thought this horse was probably among their, if not the best

chance they had at making the Derby.

So it'll be interesting to see him come back, come back here.

I was a big fan of Silent Tactics win in the Southwest

last time out. We'll see how the pace shakes up

here, but he strikes me as a kind of horse where he's going

to put the run in no matter what the pace is.

We'll see whether or not that means victory or whether that

means running second or third this time out.

But I do like him. And if you remember our

conversation with Mark Cassie a few weeks ago, Strategic risk

was more they were kind of maybe count putting that effort toward

all that weather that got in the way of the training.

He maybe wasn't going into that the best that he could.

He beat silent tactic in the smart Jones.

Now he's had a few weeks, I believe of an uninterrupted

training. I haven't heard anything about

Oakland missing any training with the weather the last couple

weeks. So he's 12 to one in this field

and if you're expecting him to bounce back now that he's can,

now that he's been properly prepared for the race, I think

he definitely. Could play a big role.

It was interesting watching which horses didn't seem to mind

the time off from training. Which ones did?

Yes, right. Wasn't it fascinating kind of

trying to figure out which ones would run which ones would fire,

I should say not wrong, but fire which ones didn't horse.

I'm giving one last chance this weekend as Rancho Santa Fe.

Brad Cox. I read Ortiz junior anthem,

right? I just, this is his last chance

for me. If it doesn't work here, then

get it back to one turn. It's fine.

Yeah. But it it it just is what it is.

It is. I will say this.

I wonder if a part of this, you know, we we always, you know,

this time of year we're like, oh, these field sizes, blah,

blah. And we get these nice field

sizes this weekend. I wonder how much the rebel

being on Sunday helped that. Because it's not just a horse

thing, Sean, about filling the gates.

It's a people thing, too. Yeah.

And getting I read into Oakland on a Sunday because you're

running this on Sunday makes a difference for the owners of

Rancho Santa Fe. It just does.

And instead of having this the same day as, you know, as the

found of youth and as the Gotham, right, I think it

actually allows you to get people to Arkansas to run in

these races. And I'm obviously correct

because John Velasquez, Flavia Pratt, you know, Javier's going

to be, Castellano's going to be, and Irad's coming in.

Jose Ortiz is coming in. It allows them because of the

difference in days to get there. So kudos to Oakland for setting

this up. You should.

Have brought that up before. I booked all my flights.

Maybe I could have ridden with them from Gulfstream to Oakland.

I understand that that's my fault because I'm a married

person and my wife wouldn't similarly blame me for things

that I had nothing to do with. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah.

So. I'm going to, I'm going to take

one out of her playbook. It's good job by you.

Well, we won't be out there. So if you are out there for Big

Cap Day and you see us around in our green and white hats that

say Blood Horse Monday on them, come say hi to us.

Oh, we're gonna have hats. They get here this week.

They don't. But don't you want to show off

your nice, beautiful bald head? Listen.

Listen with the California sun reflecting right off of.

So many beautiful people. It's so annoying.

And then there's me now with that.

They're just like, that guy's not from California.

Look at him like they just know. They can tell.

Like when I go to the Haskell, they're like, he's not from

Jersey, I know it's. OK, no, but that, that is gonna

be a pretty fun trip out there. So if you're out there in

California. I would love to be.

Come say hello to us. So by the way, Saturday, 11:00

Pacific, we'll be doing the show o'clock this morning.

So, like, just come by. Yeah, just come say hi.

We'd love to have an audience. Whatever.

Come say hi to us. We'd love to hang out with you.

You'll meet some of Southern California's royalty as well.

I got you. Don't even know yet.

Even Sean doesn't know we got special guests.

There we go. That show's going to be fun.

Just to put this out there, this is on your your happy hour.

Platform this is on the horse racing happy hour yeah so people

want to check that out you got to go to at horse happy hour on

the socials but certainly lots of different places Spotify

seems to be my biggest crap there you go there you.

Go all right. There you go.

By the way, Thursday, I'll talk with Bobby Hall on the horse

racing happy hour about the races in New York on Friday

morning on ESPN Radio here in Louisville, ESPN 680 on social

media. Go find us.

I'll talk to Brian Nadeau. We've had him on this program

before. He's the morning line maker at

Gulfstream Park, also part of their simulcast as well ahead of

the Fountain of Youth. Of course, we want to remind you

at this point in the episode about the magazine, you can

check out the magazine under the QR code on the screen if you're

watching on YouTube or on Spotify by Mike, give us a give

us like give us the five star review.

We would appreciate all those things.

And then go ahead and get the magazine as well.

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Come to you and make your make everyone's coffee table a little

more beautiful. Oh yes, beautiful photos on the

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