BloodHorse Monday | Journalism to the Haskell

Ah yes, it's a Bastille Day edition of of Bloodworth Money.

Let's go. His name is Sean on Louis.

Fantastic start. Happy Bastille Day to all of the

florals of the Julian's of the world.

It's so so good to be with you to start the horse racing week.

Shawn Collins up there at Saratoga.

Louis Rebeau stuck here in a town with no racing at all.

Louisville, KY right now. 2 hour trip to go to watch a horse run

in a circle. That's why I.

Left. I don't blame you, brother.

How's Saratoga treat you? Besides, very wettly.

Yes, it's been very wet the first week that I've been out

here, but so far so good. We had some pretty good racing

over the weekend, a fantastic edition of the Diana Stakes.

You can ask for a more thrilling race than that this past

weekend. So far it's been fun.

All the big horses are here. I had one morning the other day

I saw 2 Kentucky Derby winners so I am very happy out here.

That is a Shawn dream folks. If you are new to the show,

Shawn, it's a Blood Horse, Lou Yervo here back in the Blood

Horse studios slumming it here in Kentucky this time of year.

I'm just kidding, of course, but you know, you're up there.

You talk about that, Diana. And one of the things I texted

you after that race was we both got the jockey right of that

one, but not the turf horse for our mid season awards that we

did last year. But I thought something very

interesting that came out of that show actually happened on

Facebook, and that is that, Sean, I made the case last week,

as did Steve Kornacki, who's obviously much more important

than either of us. That mind frame was horse of the

year. And the public has come over the

top swinging just an absolute Mace of a medieval weapon and

saying not only is mind frame not horse of the year amazing to

me, sovereignty is at what percentage by the way, 70 what?

He is currently at 76% of the vote in our polls.

So most of our watching audience, most of our blood

horse audience is siding with me in the mid season awards.

That sovereignty is the mid season horse of the year. 76% of

you are bombs. I'll, I'll start there, Sean,

who's the second horse on that? This is where this is where I, I

might have to quit the show. This is where we're in trouble.

I, I don't know if I could continue it.

Go ahead, go ahead. 2nd place on the list, journalism, the

three-year olds, they're, they're taking the public so

votes this year, that's for sure.

So yeah, you and you and Steve were all over mine frame.

Frank was on raging Torrent, but it's sovereignty with a huge

lead and journalism coming in second so far in that poll.

But happy to see so many people responding to that poll on on on

our Facebook page. Make sure you keep an eye on

that for when we do that stuff like that again in the future if

you're listening to this. And hopefully everybody enjoyed

our discussion last week when we went through all those different

awards. Yeah, lots of fun doing that for

sure. We appreciate Steve for jumping

on, and I'm kidding, of course. Obviously people should feel how

they feel. But it is a reminder those

moments, Sean, you, you can't do too much work on the Kentucky

Derby. You can't do too much work on

the Triple Crown. People love it, They really do.

It is the, the, you know, the, the, the locus of our sport and

everything seems to revolve around it.

And so I'm not mad about it, especially since, you know, it's

early July and we're trying to figure out who it is.

That would be horse of the year at this point.

In your mind though, Sean, certainly Facebook votes aside,

how do you think the Turf riders and you know DRF and other

groups that get to vote on the Eclipse Awards, how do you think

they would land with Horse of the Year at this point?

Honestly, if we were voting right now, I do feel like I feel

like it would be a close race, but I do have a feeling maybe

Mind frame would get the overall vote from the people who do vote

on the Eclipse Awards just because like I think you and

Frank kind of mentioned it last week and Steve maybe a little as

well. A lot of turf writers don't want

to take a three-year old for that kind of award when they

haven't faced open company at older competition.

Now when it comes to something like our mid season awards that

we did last week, I mean the first half of the racing season

every year is dominated by Triple Crown coverage, the

Kentucky Derby prep season and then the Derby, the Preakness

and the Belmont. So it's understandable that for

a mid season horse of the year, when you have a horse like

Sovereignty, who dominated 2/3 of the race of the races in the

Triple Crown, that he would get the public vote, he would get my

vote. And then when you look at

journalism being second there, I mean, when are the Preakness

solid second the other two, when are the San Anita Derby and the

San Felipe? Very impressively.

So it makes sense why the public's leaning towards the

three-year olds, but I do feel like a lot of our peers and our

colleagues do kind of look at that as they haven't faced the

older horses yet. So we can't vote for them for an

overall award. I obviously differ with that

since I picked them, but you know, that's that's how I feel

most people would vote. We'll get back into this in just

a second. Want to set the show up though.

You mentioned journalism getting the second of our votes in our

horse of the year to this point. And by the way, if someone voted

for journalism, just like, hey, he ran in all three and he ran

well in all three and that's what I value.

I wouldn't argue with them for a second.

I would not, I would not argue with them for a second.

He's got two grade ones. He's placed in two grade ones

this year. I'm not arguing with any of it

for sure. We'll talk with his owner, Aaron

Wellman, Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners as part of the show.

We'll talk to Matt Dinerman, who will call the this weekend where

we will see the return of journalism to the track for the

first time since the aforementioned Triple Crown.

We'll also talk with Patrick Brown.

He's with the the racing and gaming conference at Saratoga

coming up in just a couple of weeks.

Frank will sit in on that one. We know Frank's got a ton of

wagering questions for him and we will do our best to move

through that. But as we talk about these

awards, Sean, and we try to figure it out, I think the best

example of this is I think one of the reasons Thorpito Anna,

for example, was was, you know, the you know, it's such an

interesting thing about the eclipse awards that there's a

three-year old division for both male and female.

So it allows a horse like Thorpedo Anna to fall into that

group, but then also win horse of the year, right.

But I don't wins horse of the year if she doesn't try the

traverse and certainly doesn't win the distaff, right.

When she beats those older horses.

I don't know that she wins horse of the year last year ahead of

some other competitors, But man, I think going in the traverse

and showing, Oh goodness, she's just every bit, you know, a nose

worse than fierceness or something over a mile and 1/4.

And it certainly goes to the distaff is easily the best in

that race. Obviously hurt by the lack of an

Adair manner, the lack of an idiomatic in that field, but

certainly I'm not sure either of those horses get anywhere near

her on that day. She looks so good.

And so I, I do think though, that part of her resume really

did help at the end of the by the time we got to the Eclipse

Awards. Yeah, I definitely think so.

I think once she ran that close second in the Travers, I think

that's what really put her on the Horse of the year map, the

fact that she could hold her own against the boys.

And then really at that point it was she just needs to win the

Distaff against older and have fierceness, lose the Classic and

the award's hers. And that's exactly what happened

and that's what ended up being the way that people voted.

But I do think there is somewhat of you have to, I think at least

from my voting perspective, when you have a horse like her that

kind of transcends the sport a little bit.

You do have to give her the nod if the accomplishments or maybe

even slightly less just because I'm not saying that they were

slightly less. But if you had a scenario where

you felt like 1, go back to 2018 with Justify and Accelerate

where Accelerate had the big long year, but Justify

transcended the sport and he won the Triple Crown.

He did something that has only been done 13 times in history

and he got the nod for Horse of the Year by a lot of people end

up winning it. And so sometimes there's things

like that where we have to kind of look at a public's

perspective, who obviously the accomplishments are important,

but you also got to look at who really kind of helped to benefit

the sport this year, who bring attention to the sport and

Justify did that, Torpedo Anna did that.

And that's why you see them end up winning the award.

No, that's right. And frankly, I know you were

there as well, so this is a story you could tell as well.

But when they had her parade in the fall at Churchill, and it

wasn't a racing day, she had been out at the farm, but they

brought her to Churchill. And every time they walked

around that paddock and they got to the shoot and and it was time

to go through the tunnel and get out to the track and do all that

stuff, she's like, oh, OK, let's go.

Hey, I'm ready. Let's, let's go.

Yeah, go. We're going out that way.

Right. And she would stop, Sean.

They'd have two people walk her because she don't want you to go

out to the track and do. That he could have ran that day.

I. Completely agree with you and

frankly it was like. Clark Day she could have

probably went and beat them in the Clark that's for.

Sure, but that's the point too, is why she stands out as horse

of the year. What what they did with her last

summer at Saratoga as well, where she was available for

visits and that kind of stuff that she, you know, walks around

the paddock at Churchill Downs. There were thousands of people,

the paddock at Churchill on Clark Day, just to see her, you

know, not even, not even where we were standing, where there

were plenty of people, you know, inside that that middle part of

the paddock at Churchill Downs, but just in those stands that

they have on the outside. By the way, if you haven't been

to the new paddock at Churchill Downs, it's a lot like the

Gulfstream Park paddock, believe it or not, as far as some of the

seating on the outside and different things that way.

That's what. Less stores around though.

Less, yeah. Less slot machines.

Yeah, there you are. But yes, no, it's like, it's a

similar kind of feel to those stands, you know?

I agree with that, yeah. And by the way, I like it.

I wish tracks would take the good stuff from other tracks and

put it in their tracks more often, because I think that's a

nice addition for Churchill for sure.

But you know, it's a, you brought up Accelerate in 2018

and the Haskell starts I think the second-half of the

three-year old season as far as I'm concerned.

And it's no putting down of an Indiana Derby or an Iowa Derby

and Ohio Derby, what have you. I really think of the Haskell

because it is a grade one. It's always literally always

been a grade one. There are very few races in the

graded stakes era that have always kept their grade one.

The Haskell's one of them. Matt.

Matt. Good Lord, Matt.

Dinnerman, I know you're jumping ahead of the show and.

But he, you know, accelerate that year.

I do wonder if there isn't the next horse, you know, ready for

this year or if we've already met them, right.

Could it be let's say Gossgar runs really well, wins whatever?

I feel like we already met him in the Preakness man right?

Like we. Know who he is, we know what

he's made of, we know he can contend on this stage.

So I I would be very you know, every year it seems like we have

maybe the one or two three-year old that at least has a shot to

jump up. And maybe it doesn't pan out

like last year where, you know, there were a couple that maybe

took a shot of the Travers, but then it still ended up being

fierceness story Peter Anna on Sierra Sierra Leone dominating

that race. I just I mean, maybe they're

still out there, but I do feel like this is kind of a year

where the best 3 year olds from the first half the year are

going to be the best 3 year olds in the second-half the year.

And I just feel like there's such a high level of talent in

the three-year old division this year to where it's going to be

really hard for one of these new shooters to jump up in the

Haskell and the Travers in the maybe the Pennsylvania Derby,

get somebody that can kind of pop up as sovereignty in

journalism, wait for the Breeders Cup.

But it's going to be really tough for kind of a new face to

show up this year. I think unless there's a

arrogate hiding out there somewhere.

We'll see. We'll arrogate hiding, you know,

the one that I the other the the two that I think of from the

spring that haven't won one of these high level races that I

think could turn into that next horse.

Gossgrove. We already mentioned it's

magnitude right coming out of that Iowa Derby.

We'll see where he points next. My census.

We won't see him at Saratoga. So he might be a Pennsylvania

Derby. That's.

A good spot for him. I think I said that last week.

That'd be the right I'd take. Yeah, but if he goes that route

and then we see him at the Breeders Cup, all, all bets are

off at that point, man. I mean, because he's he's fast,

he's on the front. He doesn't need to tactically,

he's not a difficult horse to to pilot, right.

And I don't want to put down anyone that's ever ridden the

horse and put up the the speed figures and different things

that they have with him. But that does stand out.

Those two to me, Sean, do seem to be the two that if there are

going to be horses that jump up, pick off one of these great

ones, it might be one of those two.

Yeah. And I think those two are really

the two where it feels like they're still progressing.

You know, the the Preakness was Gossgar's, what, his third,

fourth race, I think. Yeah.

And he you saw him run really well and maybe him getting tired

there at the end was just a little bit of immaturity of him

being on the lead for so long by himself until journalism got up

to him. Magnitude obviously had that

time off and you came back in a big way.

So it feels like those are two horses where maybe we still

haven't seen their peak yet. So they could get to that point

where they're contending with sovereignty and journalism the

second-half of the year. But at the same time, I mean,

who knows, maybe, maybe sovereignty and journalism even

get better and everyone else has no hope.

We'll talk with Matt Dinnerman, track announcer later in the

show there at Monmouth Park. This is a day you and I both

love Haskell Day. We'll certainly get into it with

Matt. And obviously Aaron's going to

be making the trip. Aaron Walman, the owner of of

journalism here. But the Molly pitcher, the

Monmouth Cup, that Haskell, you know, my favorite race on the

card is always the United Nations.

I love that race so much. I'm a sucker for a longer turf

race. I'm a sucker for a horse like

get smoking last year who's like, you know what I'm going to

do? I'm going to get the lead.

Y'all can come catch me. I love horses like that.

And of course, we've seen Deterministic do that already

this year. And so maybe we've run out of

those kinds of runs, Sean, but is there outside of the hospital

a favorite race on the on the card for you?

No, the Haskell. The Haskell takes it for me.

Yeah, that was for those that don't know, the Haskell's the

first live horse race I ever attended back in 2014.

This will be my 11th one this year, so that's hold holds a

very special place in my heart. I guess technically my first

stakes race I ever saw live was the Mali Pitcher because it was

hardly on the card. But the Haskell for me is always

the big draw each year. I can't, I can't wait for that

race. This is always the one after the

Triple Crown races is always my target every year.

I would say even this is probably my second favorite race

day of the year after Kentucky Derby.

Yeah, for sure. OK, wow.

All right. More than, say, a Breeders' Cup

Saturday or something like that, Yeah.

I love Haskell. There's nothing like being at

Monmouth for the Haskell. I love Monmouth Park.

I love the Haskell. Nothing better than that, except

for the it's so. Hard to, it's so hard to

describe to people how much we love going to that race.

But all right. And at this point, he is friend

of the show, Aaron Wellman, He's from Eclipse Thoroughbred

Partners joins us here on Blood Horse Monday alongside Sean

Collins. Lou Rebeau hanging out with you.

We are both headed to the Haskell.

We found out there's a third guy headed to the Haskell.

His name is journalism. We'll be part of that Grade 1

field on a Saturday. Aaron, welcome back in.

How are you buddy? I'm doing well.

Thanks for having me back guys. Yeah, no problem at all.

The decision making process with a horse like journalism and

everything else, it feels like at least from the outside, from

our vantage point at least, you guys have a stunningly cohesive

process with this horse as far as trainer Michael McCarthy,

ownership, etcetera. After the Derby, after the

Preakness, we watched that process play out over and over.

Similar here for the Haskell. Is it a similar kind of process?

Absolutely. First and foremost, it's the

horse that does the talking and we just got to do our best to

listen to him. Michael McCarthy obviously is at

the top of the totem pole in that respect.

And then we've got just a wonderful ownership group with

Eclipse. Michael and I have a great

rapport, of course, Bridlewood Farm, Donald Berto, Bob, La

Penta and ever since coming in, Coolmore has been just

remarkably supportive of the entire venture.

So we've got good communication throughout the ranks with

journalism, doing his best to make our lives easy, and of

course, relying on Michael McCarthy to steer the ship.

So yeah, it's been a blast. And just to have a horse like

him that really does make our life so easy when it comes to

these decisions is a true blessing.

Well, what have the last month and 1/2 or so been like for him

since the Belmont Stakes? You know, he's obviously he ran

in all three jewels of the Triple Crown.

That's a taxing effort, but he must be doing pretty well if

he's going to be coming back in the Haskell, isn't he?

He's done really well. We gave him an easy 10 days, two

weeks. When he got back to California,

to Santa Anita after the Belmont Stakes, he obviously had 6 some

odd weeks on the road from Kentucky to Baltimore, then to

New York, and then traveling back to California.

So, you know, that just in and of itself takes its toll on a

horse. But he's such a hearty

individual. I can't speak enough to his

physical and psychological constitution that's allowed him

to handle all this so well and continue to perform at such a

high level. So we gave him those easy couple

weeks and then he was pretty much indicating it was time to

get back to work and Michael gradually started to build him

back up and we breezed him three weekends ago.

He was very energetic in that breeze, came out of it

exceptionally well. We'd started to tighten the

screws the week prior to to this one and he gave us another good

indication that he was ready for more.

And then we did put him to a bit of a test this past Saturday

with the team drill going 5 eights out of stiff 3/4.

And he just tells us he's a racehorse, you know?

So if there's a race out there that makes sense, we're going to

go for it. And the Haskell added up every

which way. Aaron Wellman with us from

Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners. We ran a poll as part of an

episode we did last week for Horse of the Year.

Midway through the year, Aaron and your boy journalism finished

ahead of Mind Frame. That's how much people around

the country are enjoying watching him run, how much

they're fans of him. Do you feel that too?

Just in general with with journalism, I got to say, you're

talking about these workouts, Aaron, every bleep and time I

see this horse work out, he's better.

Like he just gets better every time.

It's a stunning thing. But also just that sort of, I

think appreciation from horse racing fans, the second, first,

second runnings in those three Triple Crown races.

Are you feeling that as well? Absolutely.

And and that's just been another remarkable part of this whole

experience for us at Eclipse and our partners and everybody

aligned with him. He is sort of taken on this role

of the people's horse. And it really makes you realize

that when you have the individual to be able to do it

with and they're very few and far between, they are hard to

come by the journalism of the world that have the, you know,

just that Hickory way about them, that you can keep

travelling with them and showing up in grade one races time and

again and that they show up and perform.

So throughout his San Anita Derby to Kentucky Derby process,

he really started to gain a lot of traction, not just within the

industry media, but he sort of transcended the sport.

I think a lot of that had to do with his name in conjunction

with the fact that he had proven himself to be an elite horse in

its own right. And then of course, the

Preakness performance against all odds, defying logic really

allowed him to gain so much more respect throughout the industry

and throughout all sports media, which was just incredible to to

be a part of. But I think that fans and

gamblers and breeders and owners and all stakeholders in this

game really appreciate this day and age when one of those rare

individuals comes by that's capable of dancing every dance.

And hopefully there's an appreciation not just for the

horse himself, which he deserves, but also for the

connections who are willing to allow him to do what he's born

and built to do, which is run and run at a very high level on

a consistent basis. So, you know, we're not playing

scared. He's telling us and we've got

the utmost confidence in our horse and our jockey and of

course our trainer Michael McCarthy, who's just done an

impeccable job developing him from day one.

Now when you talk about, you know, not really dodging any

spots, he's been dancing all the big dances.

This will be, I believe this 5th grade one in a row.

Now here in the Haskell, there's really, you know, this

second-half of the year, there's the three grade ones left for

the three-year olds at the these distances, the Haskell, the

Travers and then the Pennsylvania Derby.

I know there was some talk in the media, I don't know how much

you guys were actually considering it, that he might

end up in the Jim Dandy instead. Haskell grade one versus Jim

Dandy grade 2, The Haskell, the Breeders Cup.

Win and you're in, win and you're in as well.

Did that play any role into swaying you one way or the

other? Or was it always, you know, the

Haskell is the prestigious race we want to run in that one?

Yeah, with all respect to the Jim Dandy, it's an important

race and it's at Saratoga and it's got a lot of history behind

it. We would love to have any number

of horses that we could consider for that race.

But when the comparison is Jim Dandy at Saratoga in a Grade 2

for a half, $1,000,000, and the Haskell, which is an incredibly

important, prestigious, historic race in its own right with grade

one status and $1,000,000 purse, you know, it's not necessarily

all about the money or the prestige.

But in this case, all the factors tilted in favor of the

Haskell, the Grade 1 status, the $1,000,000 purse.

We actually like the timing of the Haskell as well, because

it's six weeks from the Belmont to the Haskell.

And then that gives us a little bit more flexibility.

Not that we're trying to look too far beyond just the Haskell,

because we got to take care of business on Saturday.

We have a lot of respect for the horses that are going to be

showing up and doing their best to take down journalism.

But it does allow for a little bit more flexibility and spacing

of his races. After the Haskell as well, the

travel was simpler to get to Monmouth than it was to

Saratoga. So all these variables, of

course, we're leaving no stone unturned.

Every T is being crossed, every I dotted.

This is an important horse that's a huge asset to our

partners and we'll ultimately stand at Coolmore.

So we're trying to just be very responsible as it relates to the

management of his career and also the asset that he is in the

future and trying to make him worth as much as we possibly

can. But there really wasn't a whole

lot of debate between the Jim Dandy and the Haskell, to be

honest with you. And again, that's not trying to

be slighting or disrespectful to Jim Dandy.

It was just a relatively black and white decision for us as a

team to make. Hey, we're in an era where, you

know, Justify wins the Triple Crown.

We never see him again, you know, and then we get, you know,

country house never races again after he wins the Derby.

You know, just example after example of this kind of stuff.

Any part of your mind think, OK, my horse just ran, our horse

just ran in three races in five weeks against the best

competition in his age group, going long distances.

Any part of you thinking, yeah, we're not going to do the

Haskell, He's not going to be ready?

Did that creep in for you after the Belmont at all?

With this horse, he gives us so much confidence that no,

honestly, we weren't like calling our shot right after the

Belmont. We're going to the Haskell and

mapping out a plan for the second-half of the year.

We know what all the options are.

They're out there on the table. We just needed to give him a

minute to tell us whether he was ready to get on a plane again

and go tackle fresh horses and good ones at that in another

grade One race across the country from his home base.

So we really never make a plan. We want to try to assess him on

a day-to-day basis and plan from that or those indicators day by

day. But we don't rule anything out.

And as you saw step by step from the Derby to the Preakness, we

waited the whole week to make our decision whether he was in

condition to be able to be entered in the Preakness.

And then we waited a little bit longer to make the decision

between the Preakness and the Belmont, but logistically put

him in position to get to Saratoga so that if he indicated

he was ready for the Belmont, we did it.

So it's really a step by step process.

But this is a horse that we have just so much confidence in that

we don't dismiss anything that he's capable of doing.

We won't don't want to jump to conclusions.

We want to do right by the horse and manage him race by race and

that's being good stewards of the animal himself and hopefully

the sport too. And like you said earlier, I

think that the stakeholders and the fans are appreciating that.

When you look back at the Triple Crown with the second in the

Derby, the win in the Preakness and the second in the Belmont, I

know a lot of people maybe in your shoes would feel maybe a

little disappointed, you know, getting close to winning those

two races, but not quite. But it seems like you guys have

really, you know, he obviously didn't lose anything in those

races. He ran fantastic races and it

seems like you guys are still really proud of him.

Just what are your thoughts now a couple weeks removed on just

the whole Triple Crown season? Do you still believe he got

through in the in the Preakness? Like, tell us the truth.

Yeah, that's, that's still a tough one to to wrap your head

around, but yeah, and this is potentially gonna come off the

wrong way. It's hard to believe that he

only won one one of the legs of the Triple Crown.

That's how good of a horse we think journalism is.

So for Sovereignty to handle him twice the way he did, even

though you could argue that in the Belmont he was a fresher

horse and, you know, was waiting for journalism after a tough

race in the Preakness, you got to give credit to Sovereignty

himself. Bill Mott had him trained

up-to-the-minute. I mean, impeccable horsemanship

on his part, great rides by Junior Alvarado.

But it really puts into perspective, like, we know how

good journalism is. Mike McCarthy and myself and our

team, we've been around and been fortunate to be around a lot of

good horses and we know how good journalism is.

There's no telling how good sovereignty might be because of

the way the match up has has landed so far.

And it's a 2 nothing scoreboard and we acknowledge that.

We certainly hope that there will come a time later on this

season or perhaps next year, if that's possible, for these two

to square off again or more. But yeah, you know, it's hard to

believe going into the Triple Crown that we only walked away

with one of them. Not to say that we're not

incredibly thrilled that we did and not incredibly proud that he

ran second in the other two legs, but man, what a horse

sovereignty must be. And hopefully, you know, with a

little bit more experience and, and seasoning and time and maybe

some adjustments and tactics, we can, we can turn the tables and

start to narrow the gap between the two of them.

But it's, it's an incredible, I don't even want to call it a

rivalry, but it's just awesome to have two horses of this

caliber competing, going toe to toe.

I think it's great for the industry.

It's great to be part of. And, you know, we'll see what

the future holds. You might just crack the door

open a little bit on a four year old campaign.

Like I said, we don't rule anything out and, and you know,

we just take it, look, our, our goal, our objective was the

Triple Crown with journalism. The first half of the season he

performed admirably at a huge level.

And if not for sovereignty, he'd be a Triple Crown winner.

And you could say the opposite for sovereignty.

Had he run in the Preakness, maybe he would have been a

Triple Crown winner. So I think you've got two Triple

Crown worthy individuals, which is very rare to see in this

game. As for us now, we really can

take the second-half of this season on a race by race basis

with the hope that journalism cooperates and allows us to work

backwards from the Breeders Cup Classic.

Beyond that, you know, we'll have to huddle up with the very,

very savvy people at Coolmore and make a determination for

journalism and the partnership as to what's in the horses and

the partnerships best interest. But right now our sole focus is

the Haskell. It's the only thing that matters

to us and this horse right now and, and hopefully he goes out

there and makes us proud on Saturday.

Journalism's owner, his name is Aaron Wallman, he's from Eclipse

Thoroughbred Partners. I wanted to ask, you mentioned

Junior Alvarado, his, and you're right about those two rides in

the Derby and the Belmont. They're not.

You're not going to do much better than that, for sure

umberto's been aboard for all three of the Triple Crown races,

certainly before that. Look, there are lots of tweaks

that can be made in horse racing.

Any thought to not having Umberto ride moving forward?

Or was there a discussion at all after the Triple Crown?

Or is he the guy? Look, we operate on the notion

that you win a grade one race on our horse.

He's your horse and we've got great partners that are loyal

and have the utmost confidence in Umberto.

He's a world class rider. He's ridden all over the globe

and competed and succeeded at the highest level.

He's our guy. And they have, when I say they

Umberto and journalism have a remarkable rapport with one

another. You saw what journalism did for

him in the Preakness and the run that Umberto got out of him

after the brouhaha that ensued at the 8th Pole.

You know, journalism runs for him and he's going to continue

to run for him. You know, there have been

discussions internally with Umberto and Michael McCarthy

about tactics and the tactics that we'd like to employ and

what we think journalism is at his best doing.

Yes, those conversations have ensued.

But As for jockey, look, loyalty is hard to come by in this game.

But I'd like to think that Eclipse is an operation that is

respected for our loyalty to all our horsemen and women, whether

they be trainers, jockeys or otherwise, as well as our

partners Brattlewood Farm, Don Alberto, Bob Lepente and

Coolmore. You know, journalism's not the

only very talented horse in your stable.

I know we're high on, and our colleague Frank Angst is

especially high on Fondly coming off of her win out in Delaware.

What would be next for her? Where's she headed next?

Yeah, we're super excited about fondly, as you could tell.

I mean, we were pretty ambitious with her, running her in the

Kentucky Oaks off just two lifetime starts after her win in

the Virginia Oaks. Super talented Philly, lot of

class give a lot of credit to my right hand man in the bloodstock

world at Eclipse, the VP of bloodstock, Sean Tugel.

He birddogged this Philly for 50 grand at Physic Tipton October,

you know, and I gave him the green light to go on with it

and, and to see where she is now is is a remarkable achievement

for Sean and one that needs to be acknowledged.

This Philly romped in the Delaware Oaks, delivered as we

thought. Didn't think she got the best of

it in the Kentucky Oaks on a really, really tricky surface

that day. We got a deluge right before the

Oaks and she wanted no part of it.

Thrilled to see her come back and rebound in the Delaware Oaks

the way she did and put forth that type of effort.

We're resisting the temptation to go back into the deep end of

the pool and run her in the CCA Oaks, even though it was

tempting. We're going to stay in a little

bit more of a realistic zone and run her the week after the

Haskell in the Monmouth Oaks at Monmouth Park.

So hopefully we had a good weekend last weekend with a

Philly called Roja winning the Blue Sparkler Monmouth.

We've got a huge line up there including journalism, candied

corruption and big races there on Haskell Day.

And then we hope to put an exclamation point on it in the

Monmouth Oaks with Fondly the following week.

And if she delivers, as we hope she will, then we could consider

races like possibly the Alabama or the Cotillion.

But we think she's a filly with a great one with her name on it.

Aaron Wallman with us. You're headed to New Jersey.

When was your last trip to Monmouth Park?

Man, it's been a long time. I actually can't remember when

the last time was, but I know that we did win a race the last

time I was there. So I'm hoping to to keep my

limited streak alive with in person attendance at Monmouth.

But yeah, we we hope to have a great crew out there by the

Jersey Shore on Saturday. And you know, it's a privilege

to to be represented by the lineup that we are headlined by

journalism. Well, on top, on top of that

going for you, when you were on this show in March, it was right

the week of journalism winning the San Felipe right before

that. So you got that going for you as

well. Being on the show usually works

out for you too. Well, good, let's keep that

modes going. We'll now have on.

Before all of his horses starts. Do we admit that we had Junior

on before the Belmont? Is that, do we admit that that

was that a thing that we it's, it's a powerful show.

I don't know what to tell you. Because you're good

handicappers. There it is.

It must. Be there we go.

We will see him in Eaton Town this weekend.

Aaron, thanks so much for jumping on Blood Horse Monday

again. Appreciate it as always fellas

there. You go Aaron woman clips Thurman

partners appreciate those folks jumping on with us here.

And look, Sean, there's grade ones and then there's journalism

showing up. Great ones, right?

Well, the three-year old season is like this where, you know,

especially when you have groups like the McCarthy barn and, and

like Eclipse and all the, all the folks that he mentioned in

the partnership that if you're doing right by the horse, these

decisions do have to take time, right?

And so we're, we're kind of, you know, we with the foster, for

example, we kind of knew who 6-7 of those horses were going to be

ahead of time with three-year olds coming out of a Triple

Crown campaign like this, You know, it's, it's a different

question. I'll be honest, I'm a little

surprised he's ready to go already.

But it's like he, like Aaron just talked about, he's just

different. He's just different.

Every time I see a workout with journalism, he's doing something

a little better than the last time I saw him.

He's just so use the word Hickory, which I totally

appreciate, by the way. That's a great, great term on

the show. But he is, he's just, he's just

built to run and run and run. Not to make a built joke, but

you know, he's, he really is. And I, I, I wonder if I don't

allow myself to kind of be stained by previous examples of

horses just not ready to run in the Haskell or something like

that. And I'm, you know, not thinking

enough about the fact that we still do have these great 3 year

olds around. We have a bunch of them this

year, frankly. And you know, this is, I think

this is going to be a great Haskell.

I'm very excited. I'm very excited too.

And just to put in perspective, you know, you think back

American Pharaoh, when he came back in the Haskell, he had an

extra 2 weeks compared to journalism after the Belmont.

That was before they moved the race and he ended up running the

Haskell. I believe it was August 2nd.

Journalism's coming back to run it on July 19th.

So he's coming back fairly quick and that just is a real

testament to the kind of horse that he is.

I remember seeing him going back out onto the track.

What was it? The Wednesday after the Kentucky

Derby? He looked phenomenal, like he

hadn't run. And you know, obviously you saw

what he did when he came back in the Preakness.

And then he just he, you know, you look at him.

Aaron referenced that there. We just don't know how good

sovereignty is because journalism ran top notch races

in all three Triple Crown races. He's one of those horses that

it, it's weird to put him in this category because he did win

one of the Triple Crown races, But I feel like he's one of the

horses where we're going to look at down the line as a sham or an

alley. Dar of the great horse just born

in the wrong year because if he was born a year later, he's next

year's Triple Crown winner. If he was born last year, he was

last year's Triple Crown winner. And so it it's an interesting

scenario that he's in, but it's a real testament to Michael

McCarthy, to Eclipse and all the owners to give him the

opportunity to kind of really let him develop into the star

that he is. And we're seeing him bounce out

of these races very well and keep putting up big

performances. I don't expect him to take a

step back in all this weekend. I'm expecting, I'm expecting top

notch journalism, if not the best journalism we've seen yet

this weekend. If the videos of the workouts

are any indication, then we're getting the best version of him.

It's incredible to say. I mean, it really is.

And I awesome good. Give me all of it.

I just see a straight for sure. I didn't ask him because I

didn't I didn't know the best way to formulate the question.

But do you think, and you brought it up winning in for the

Breeders Cup. If he does win, do you think his

schedule slows down or is this just the kind of horse you got

to run? Well, it sounds like he's the

kind of horse you gotta run. It sounds like what they tried

to sit on him a little bit after the Belmont and he wasn't having

it. So now the question is, do you

send him back to California? Maybe, maybe go against older in

the Pacific Classic? Do you bring?

Him back, what I keep coming back to in my mind is the

Pacific Classic, 'cause I think he, I think he'll be the

favorite of the Pacific Classic. Well, I, I think we'll get a

real telling sign based off of what happens right after the

Haskell 'cause he heard Aaron mention there, it, it was a

brief mention, but he did mention in that, and when I had

asked that question that it was easier to get him to Monmouth

than it is to Saratoga. So if he sticks around on the

East Coast, I think that's going to be a huge telling sign.

If he flies back to the West Coast.

I mean, he could still fly back for the Travers, but that would

be a, that seems like something that they would consider.

You saw him after the Preakness go straight up to Saratoga or

after that, even though they hadn't decided on the Belmont

yet. I think we'll we'll get an idea

of what the rest of his year will look like very quickly.

That's a good point by you. All right, well, the man who

will call the races this weekend is Matt Dinnerman.

And I got to say, Sean, just on a personal note with Matt, Matt

was one of my earliest people that actually answered the phone

when I was doing a podcast ever. He was calling races at Golden

Gate Fields and we were willing to have him on for $50,000 black

types because you know what, that's what, that's what he was

calling. And now he's calling grade ones

in Arkansas and in New Jersey, he'll be on the call of the

Grade 1 Haskell, the $1,000,000 Haskell this weekend as well.

Matt Dunaman joins Blood Horse Monday now.

All right, He's not in Arkansas anymore.

He's calling the races this summer as he did last year at

Monmouth Park. His name is Matt Dinerman.

He'll be on the call for the Haskell and, of course, the

greatest race in the history of the United States, the United

Nations, earlier in the day on the Haskell card.

Matt, good afternoon. Thanks for joining us on BLOOD

HORSE Monday. Great to be on with you guys.

How are you? We're doing great.

We are headed your way in in a very short order.

I'm going to eat a lot of pizza. Is that okay?

Is that a thing that we should do at East Jersey?

Yeah, I'd be disappointed if you didn't.

I mean, what are you coming to Jersey for if you're not going

to have some pizza? Come on, come on.

I love. Get a pie that's exactly right.

Well, Matt, second year at Monmouth Park, what do you find

different about your you know, it's showing up this year and

and different things? Is it just more comfortable,

more familiar? What?

What do you find this year? Your second go round?

Definitely. I think it's more comfortable.

You know the people, you know the surroundings, you always are

learning about new things around the area because there's just so

many things to do. But you, you, you get used to

your environment here and you get used to sort of coming into

a place that you know, and as human beings, we're all about.

Creatures of habits. So it's nice when you're in a

place that you're comfortable in.

And even calling a second Haskell, you know, going into

the race, I think it's going to be a little bit more comforting

knowing, OK, you've done it one time already here.

Well, take us back to that one time where you did it.

You had the top two from the Belmont coming in, door knock

and mind frame. They end up running 1-2 in the

Haskell as well. Just what were your nerves going

into a big race like that and how'd you enjoy the experience?

It's funny because when I was at Emerald Downs calling the Long

Acres Mile or the San Francisco Mile at Golden Gate and there

were nerves there, I figured that it would be a whole new

level when you call a race like the Haskell or the Arkansas

Derby or the Apple Blossom at Oakland.

But then when you do it and you are a part of it, you realize

the nerves are the same. It has nothing to do with grade

one status or purses or who's in the race.

It's about the prestige of the race and the nerves, in my

opinion, Opinion, at least for me, I can only speak for myself,

but people may say, why are you nervous?

You're going to do a great job. And it's like, I'm not nervous

about screwing up. We all make mistakes.

Things happen. The nerves are just you want to

do a good job and the build up leading up to it.

I think a lot of us announcers, I, I probably can't speak for a

lot of us in this sense. I think we try to stay clear of

all the build up because we just want to focus on calling the

race and doing a good job and keep our minds clear there.

So, yeah, I mean, there's definitely some nerves and some

anxiety and and some, you know, jitters leading up to the race,

for lack of a better term, but it's always a great feeling when

you call a good race and you go in feeling that you will.

The experience was great. Last year Haskell Day was a

phenomenal day. The weather was perfect, as you

can guys can attest to 39,000 people.

It was packed, it was loud, it was festive.

People are celebrating having a great time.

So that gets me even more excited for this year, knowing

what the Haskell's all about. Haskell Day, not just the

Haskell itself, but a number of good.

Louis, you mentioned the UN that race will come up strong again.

It sounds like this. You're very strong in fact, so

just a really, really good time. The thing about the Haskell too,

is it's really in a win, win position as a race because if

you get a couple really big names, maybe the field won't be

as big. You might see a few horses bow

out later on in the process, but you're still going to get good

horses. If you don't get a superstar,

you're going to get maybe a few more entries, but really solid

horses. So I feel like the Haskell,

which is five weeks from the Travers, it's in a great spot in

terms of its positioning and it's just a win, win race

because you always get a really solid field for it.

Based on those numbers, it's $1,000,000 race grade one.

You're going to get good horses. Matt Derriman with us will be

called the races at Monmouth Park on Saturday as part of the

Haskell Day there 2025 a rendition.

I'll be sitting on the sofa, not during that race, but on

different. Ones, of course, I want you to

come up and say hello. I will.

Do we do we have a guest book this year?

No, no guest book. I, I have, I did not get to

doing that. I, I should have done it.

Maybe we're going to get one for Saturday.

We, for those who don't know, we were all talking about getting a

guest book so everybody who came in can sign it may have to get

one by Saturday so you guys can be at the top of the list.

And on Sunday, I laid on the couch just for Louie to just

break it in because there haven't been people sitting on

it for a while. Papa B's was the last one.

So let's go. I like that.

OK, good. Like that?

Bro Yeah, so here's the last one.

So we got to break it in a little bit after a few weeks

without being used. All right, we'll be.

Up there, we'll say hi to the rubber ducks and all the good

things. The transition from Arkansas to

Monmouth, what's the biggest change in in calling races

between the two places and leaving out the fact that

there's turf racing in? That was the easy answer.

You already knew what? I was going to say, yeah, well,

that's disqualified. It's funny because the sight

lines are a little bit different here at Monmouth.

Couple more trees in the way on the far turn, believe it or not,

right at the five sixteenths. There's that tree there and

that's when moves are being made and they go right behind the

tree. So that's something that's a

little bit of a challenge. I'm actually ahead of the wire,

both race tracks. I'm a little more closer to the

16th pole here, not on the 16th pole.

It's a little too far down, but a little more farther down the

stretch than Oak Lawn. So at least, you know, you get

used to those sight lines and you and you start adapting to

it. I would say, you know, here I

think that moves are being made earlier than Arkansas because I

think turning for home, you really got to be fairly around

to win here on this track. So with that in mind, I think

that you see a change in style and you want to try to note

those things as opposed to Oaklawn where moves are made.

But I think down the lane it's a little more fair than versus

here. It can be a very fair racetrack,

but I think you still want to be in a good position on a track

like this, turning from if there's a horse that's 5-6 off

the pace, usually you see the riders that ride here, they move

to make sure that they get in a good position by the quarter

pole. Well, we know journalism's gonna

be coming down for the Haskell this year.

I'm sure you're very excited to see him and to call him in this

race. But you're there at Monmouth.

What are you hearing about his competition?

Do you think there's anybody who could potentially pull an upset?

What are your views on the race? Obviously the field draws

tomorrow, but what? What can you tell us at this

point? So we've got 8 probables that

are very much figured to enter, which is a good thing.

I mean, we typically get 7 to 8 horses a year in the Haskell, so

nothing new this year. We may have a 9th entrant.

He'd be a long shot, but he's a possibility.

We could have 9, so 8 to 9 horses.

Bracket Buster. He won the Naira Bats Pegasus

here very impressively on the wet going.

He'll be back for trainer Vicki Oliver and BBN Racing, they are

New Jersey folks, BBN Racing, they're partnerships.

So they're very excited to have a Haskell starter.

Gosker was second best in the Preakness to journalism.

He'll be here with jockey Luis Saez, Burnham Square Grade 1

winner at Keeneland. He will be back coming off a

runner up finishing the mat when he is going to be here for

trainer Ian Wilkes. MO Plex, they were thinking

about running him in either the Hask or the Jim Dandy.

He's going to side with the Jim Dandy so he is going to stay

home. Kentucky Outlaw won the Long

Branch. He is going to be coming here

after a third place finish behind Admiral.

Dennis is the favorite of the Delaware Derby.

He will be entering in the Haskell and on top of that you

got a couple of other locals like Wild and Crazy Night,

National Law 2nd and 4th in the Pegasus.

They're going to be taking a stab at Haskell glory this year,

and I'm just pulling up right now.

Any other probables I forgot to mention?

Well, how did I forget this guy? Goal oriented who ran 4th in the

Preakness? Bob Baffert, looking for a

record 10th Haskell in. He is going to ship this horse

across country for the Haskell. So those are your 8 probables as

of Monday afternoon. John Velasquez will be aboard

bracket Buster. Brian Hernandez, junior, is

riding Burnham Square. We're going to have goal

oriented with Flavian Pratt Goskar.

Make him Luis Saez journalism Umberto wrist national law,

Fernando Hara, Wild and crazy night, Isaac Castillo, and

finally Kentucky Outlaw. Possibly I read Ortiz or Javier

Castillano are. You excited yet, Louis?

God. Yeah, well, I, I didn't know if

you were like, if you were like, if you were like upset with all

I was saying or if you're just exciting you OK, Good.

Once in a while as an adult, which I try to be from time to

time, you have to you have to bite your tongue when you're

this excited. I would have interrupted you on

all of those. OK, OK, spectacular.

Matt. This is also winning in for the

Breeders Cup, which is, you know, an added layer to this.

You know, we get out of the Triple Crown season and then

these races have implications on the other side.

I have to imagine for a horse like journalism, this is

especially interesting to Southern california-based

connections, that kind of thing. The Bafferts of the world as

well. Do you think there's a chance

that you'll see you'll call a Haskell that has a British Cup

winner in it as well? Possibly.

I think if journalism hey runs a good race, you never know.

I mean, he hasn't beat Sovereignty yet.

I think sovereignty's at the head of his division right now,

even as a three-year old. So he's the one to beat

obviously in that three-year old division and who knows, maybe

even down the line against older.

But I think there's a good possibility with journalism he's

going to be a major player in a race like the Breeders Cup

Classic for sure. Very good horse and he's

training forwardly, it appears, off that run in the Belmont.

So I'm excited and I think this horse is not the type of horse

that just going to sort of taper off.

I I think that he's the type of horse that's not just going to

hit a ceiling is what I should have said.

He's going to keep going and I think he can even improve as he

gets older here. He's just a really good horse

and he's growing, he's developing, he's getting better.

How excited were you when you saw him on the entries list?

Definitely exciting. I mean, when you get a horse

like this and you look at the past winners of this race, it's

just year after year you get really good horses.

So we were sort of waiting to see are we going to get a

standout type of horse like that and for Journalism to come into

the race from a storyline perspective, from just the

quality of the race, it goes from being a really solid race

to at the top here. It's it's at the top now with a

horse like Journalism in there for this year's edition.

When you look at a horse like Journalism or last year with

Dornoch, does it put any added pressure on you in the back of

your mind knowing if this horse wins, I'm going to have to hear

my race call in every breeding commercial that he's in going

forward? Yeah, right.

Yeah. It's funny you say that.

I think from the outside, definitely like you can, you

would think that that is an announcer, you just want to do a

good job because you might hear yourself in the commercials.

But I personally just don't try to think about it too much.

It's like, I'm just, I always say whether it's a $5000

claiming race going a mile and an eighth or a Grade 1, they're

all going in the same direction. 1 field's just going to be a lot

slower than the other and there's going to be a few more

eyes on the Haskell then maybe the $5000 claimers.

So the preparation remains the same.

I can't sit here and say that like you don't sit here and feel

the same calling a $5000 claimers, calling grade one.

Obviously it feels different, but you try to just do the best

job you can and I, I think it actually helps when you have a

horse like that because it gets the juices flowing, the

adrenaline's there, you're getting excited, you're training

as an announcer to call horses like this.

You hope one day you can so it. It's just sort of a full circle

moment as well when you get to. Outside of the beach and pizza,

we're talking with Matt Dinerman at 3 Colts Handicap on the

socials. What should people expect when

they go to Monmouth Park for the first time?

You come to Monmouth, it's a family friendly atmosphere.

Young kids, older folks that have been coming to the track

for decades, barbecuing. There's a giant picnic area.

People think of Saratoga and the picnic tables.

Sometimes it Monmouth's picnic area gets overshadowed because

of that a little bit. You come here, it is just a sea

of people at the picnic tables. There is bring your own beer and

drinks and people show up having a good time, families.

There's a playground down the stretch, you've got people

running around, it's sunny, you can go to the paddock, it's a

quick move back to the racetrack.

It's just a really fun time and you don't see an empty

grandstand here ever. Even if the weather's bad.

You see people, they show up, they love their racing.

You see everything from the beginners to the most serious

horse players with their forms. You see people take lounge

chairs that you would bring to the beach and they just plop

them right down by the paddock on the grass and sit there and

look at their form. It is a place to be in the

summertime if you're in the Jersey Shore.

And the key is people are having fun.

It's a lot of fun and there's always people and it makes for,

for me, for example, it's a lot more fun to call races on track

when you have a big group of people that are always there

cheering. I also open the windows so like

you get to hear the crowd. It's a great atmosphere, really

fun time. Does the crowd noise as it picks

up, does that make anything happen inside of your voice?

So then kind of increase the moment, does that really kind of

feed into it? Absolutely, it can feed into it.

I mean, I've called cards here that are a lot of claiming

races, main claimers on a certain day like a Friday.

And it just enhances your experience more and enhances the

ability to to to want to call. Well, and it also just makes you

call better because you hear the crowd in it.

And it takes away from the fact that, yeah, every race does

matter to people. That's why you want to do as

good of a job as you can every single race.

But it helps you stay up because people are excited.

And it's like anything in life, that energy that people or folks

or groups bring, it can really have an effect on you.

And it does as a race car when you hear people having a good

time screaming for their horses. Haskell's a whole different

story. Haskell, every year it seems

like the announcer's really raising his voice, and I never

understood why. And then when I did it last

year, I understood because when you close the windows, it's

harder to see. So you really here in this booth

have to open the windows to call the race.

And it's like you're right there with the crowd.

And it is so darn loud. When Idiomatic and Sullivan

Angel went head and head in the Molly pitcher last year, we had

a real younger crowd last year, a lot of college age.

Kids. And it was just a lot of

beginners, so they didn't understand.

It's like when the gates open, you have to scream as loud as

you can right away. And they just went on.

Like as soon as the gates open, everybody just started

screaming. And I ran down to Doctor Angelo

Chenici's office, who is our track doctor, and I said, do you

have any cotton balls? And I put the cotton balls in my

ear because I didn't have any earplugs.

It's like if a musician's on stage and everybody's screaming,

they got that in their ear to sort of be able to hear

themselves. And it was the same thing for

me. I just couldn't hear myself

without those cotton balls. I'm going to bring some earplugs

this year if need be. Yeah, it's going to be a.

It's going to be a really fun time, but I'm expecting to be

really loud too, so I'm going to come prepared this year.

There's got to be a track announcer watching this or

listening to this going, just thinking how jealous they are.

Matt, That's So what a great, what a great problem.

Seriously, there's so much energy, so much.

This is a fantastic problem. Yeah.

All right, so I'm going to have let's let's go ahead and

brainstorm the different horses winning the Haskell.

What your call should be like, no Fact Check needed.

Journalism wins or what? A home run Gossgar wins the

Haskell, like something like that.

Like where do you think we're leading it?

Do you like the no Fact Check for journalism?

Is that a good one? Yeah, I think that's a good one.

I think that's a good one. But I usually try not to strip

the races I call authentic. So yeah, I, I just remember

Timberlake, the first million dollar race I ever called was

the Rebel and Timberlake was running in it.

And they wanted all these In Sync references the general

public. And I said it's not happening.

Like I'm not, I'm not going to say bye bye bye to the

competition. We're not saying that that's

going to be the corniest race call on a grade, Grade 2 race,

the corniest race going $1,000,000 race we've ever

heard. So it's not happening.

So I, I don't know if journalism wins, if we have to talk about

writing or what. I don't know.

What's going to come is going to come.

But yeah, I feel like it'd be a disservice too if you didn't

give it some spice. You know, all right, well, he's

mad there, but he'll be on the call there at at Monmouth Park.

I'm going to show up on Friday, by the way, all day for racing,

so I'm going to be there. Oh, very good not.

All day I will I will get my my groove back in your sofa in the

the colors in the house booth on Friday end of Saturday to be

ready. So very excited about that at 3

Colts. Jersey stores a great race, by

the way. This year, I'm excited.

I'm very, very excited to be there for Jersey Shore.

Book Em Dano ran in the Jersey Shore last year and and this

year we've got a gun medal, we've got neo equos and it's

going to it's going to be a a good race so.

There you go. We'll all be there Friday for

Neo Equos. All right, Matt, we've got.

Oh my God's the one I'm excited about.

Oh, there we go, girl. All right, we'll talk.

Why not? All right, Matt, We'll see you

Friday and Saturday, buddy. All right, guys.

Thanks. Looking forward to seeing you.

From Golden Gate Fields to calling grade ones in Arkansas

and Monmouth. Why not Let's go.

I love it so much. You know, it's interesting

talking about that day. And he's right.

Something he pointed out that it really stood out to me last

year, Sean. It's something we talked about

on this podcast, is how young the Haskell is.

Yeah. College.

Yeah. And it's just it has that feel

and it makes sense once you hear from him.

Hey, regular Friday, regular Saturday fans are in the stands.

What makes sense if you grew up 2025 years old, broke, go to the

Haskell, then you get a job and then you can actually afford to

fault the races. You know, it stands out that you

want to head to Monmouth on the weekends.

It is, it is a different spot. So people are listening and

they're in Philly or New York or whatever.

New Jersey even haven't been on Haskell Weekend.

I think even Friday would be a lot of fun this year, Sean.

Yeah, I mean, it's always a fun atmosphere to go to Monmouth,

but especially around that weekend because, you know,

Jersey Shore is right, right down the road.

So you have a lot of people that are in town for that and you got

some racing going on and people are visiting from out of town

potentially they want to go see the races because it might just

be something new for them. But it's always been a younger

kind of college age, especially in the apron there.

It's always filled with college age kids out there having a good

having a good old time and it's one of the most fun atmospheres.

That's why I praised it so much earlier in the show is it's

always one of the most fun atmospheres of racing that you

can go to every single year. It's just there's something

about that track when they get a full crowd that's just unlike

really any other racetrack that I go to throughout the year.

Sometimes the crowd energy is more than the quality of racing,

or vice versa. Haskell seems to be a good

marriage of both. You get very good marriage.

Both, yeah. And it seems like the undercard

races in the last few years have really kind of picked up as far

as quality. It seems like a lot of trainers

are really starting to point to some of those undercard races as

well. I mean, when you're talking

about grade threes and you're running them for 4600 thousand

and like that kind of stuff. I mean like.

You had champion Eddie O Matic running in a grade three last

year and she beats out by ahead the future champion female

sprinter. That's a grade three race and it

was one of the best races of the year.

I put it. I know we did a blood horse re

ranked our top ten races at the end of the year, and I know I

put the Molly pitcher in in there as I think it was in my

top five potentially because it was such a great race even

though it was a grade 3. So that's the kind of quality

that we're starting to get on that card every year now.

There you go. All right.

Well, what's bringing Frank Angst?

Frank, do you have a favorite Haskell memory?

Oh, I mean, that's pretty easy. I was there for American

Pharaoh. That wouldn't sound boastful,

but that was that was just another level of excitement and

just just great to see him continue right right off the

Triple Crown. So.

That American Pharaoh Haskell, my favorite moment was that move

that he made when he went past competitive edge and took the

lead. Just 60,000 people screaming at

the same time when he made that move, that was.

That was an experience unlike anything else.

The passed out glasses that day. I still have it and it's a it's

a nice beer, glass beer type. You know, whatever you want to

drink out of it, milk, water, all, all the print held up on a

lot of those glasses. The print kind of fades because

I use it. I didn't just put it up on the

mantle or anything. We actually use it.

It's in the rotation. Yeah, my wife grabs all the oaks

Lily cups. It just uses those every day.

So we've got a rotation of 100 just uses over and over.

Well, we say goodbye to Shaw College for a segment to bring

God Pat Brown. He'll join us now from come up

there at Saratoga. He'll be heading up the racing

and gaming conference at Saratoga in just a few short

weeks. Pat Brown, How are you, Sir?

I'm great, thanks for having me. Well, thanks for jumping on.

I wanted Frank to sit in on this one, but let's start there.

I was just at nickel G is the cool kids call it here, the

National Conference of legislators from gaming states

here in Louisville, downtown and caught up with my friend Matt

Ryboltowski, probably a name that you know as well, but I I

know what we were talking about at that one.

What is the main topic on the on the docket there in August at

Saratoga? Well, we have 12 panels of

spread over three days, August 11th through the 13th.

The first panel was going to be very interesting.

It's it's on immigration, changes in the immigration laws

and how those affect the hospitality industry,

particularly race tracks and casinos.

We've got Gary Contessa is on that panel as a trainer with a,

you know, a small stable and he's going to talk about just

every day how to deal with immigration issues with his

employees. And, you know, Gary's been at it

a long time, 4 decades, I think. And you know, he should, he

should provide a really good overview of really what the

practical impact is of the, when the folks in Washington decide

to change the immigration rules or at least how they enforce

them. So that, that should be a, a

real interesting panel. And then on the last day on

Wednesday, we have a panel on decoupling and what's happening

in Florida and where that's going in other places in the

country. And whether that is a like a

passing phase or whether that's really here and going to be kind

of a perennial issue for for a while.

We've got some horsemen on that panel and some lawyers to talk

about what happened in Florida, what's likely to happen next

legislative session in Florida, and then how that issue is kind

of percolating around the country.

But I think one of the nice things about this conference is

the top kind of the overall topics are outlined and then

often times there's discussion of how the nuts and bolts of

making things happen that racing wants to happen.

I guess on the on the decoupling issues, we saw a big victory for

the sport in Florida. But I'm with you.

I think this topic is going to rear its head again.

I just just reading the tea leaves.

What do you think will be some of the things that are

emphasized for people to be thinking about?

Is is I kind of expect this battle to continue?

Well, I I'm old enough and have been in the the racing policy

game long enough to know and to have participated in the

arguments 40 years ago when VLTS and slot machines were first

introduced at the race tracks and it was a it was a pitched

battle. There were people in the

industry then who were dead set against it saying this, this is

going to lead to the demise of of horse racing because it will

be an artificial propping up of purses and it won't be

sustainable now 40 years. It's pretty sustainable.

I mean, it's, I would say that it's, it's had a pretty good

run, but you know, now it's a different world.

It's a much different world gaming landscape.

You know, horse racing is not the only the only game in town

or the even the prettiest girl at the dance anymore.

And states are are really going to look at whether it it's the

right policy choice to use the revenue that now is very much

established in those states from VLTS and from casino taxes and

the rest of it. And whether it's the right

policy to be using that revenue on purses on race tracks.

We have a lot of legislators at this conference from all over

the country and we actually even have a legislative panel at the

on the last day as well. And I'm sure we're going to hear

quite a bit from the legislators on, you know, where, where the

pressure is coming from in the, in the capitals on whether or

not the the revenues from these other types of gaming are going

to, are going to stay in place. And that's what's so nice about

this conference is the attendees can find about, find out about

these issues and the ones that care about horse racing can try

to stay a step ahead of these things because obviously it's a

tremendous amount of revenue going into purses, going to

tracks from, from the added gaming.

Another, like you said, in the 40 years of this conference and,

and its evolution itself, there's been so many changes on

the gaming side. One of the biggest, of course,

has been the sports wagering. And I know there's a panel

that's going to look at how racing can build off of the

sports wagering popularity. I, I know that's one that is one

that I'm looking forward to. Why?

Why was that important for you to to get on the list?

Well, this this has always been looming out there.

Once sports betting was was authorized and made legal in in

the various states, like in New York, the original legislation

actually banned prohibited sports books from offering

wagering on horse racing. That was where the mindset was

when the bill was originally it. It was a protectionist move and

and policy to protect an incumbent gaming established

gaming vertical. But it's really was the wrong

choice because you have to, you have to marry both of them.

I think we're finding that in, you know, a lot of places you

you've got to go to the customer and the customer wants both

horse racing and sports betting and they don't want to have to

switch apps and they don't. They want it to be seamless.

They want and they don't understand why it isn't now.

You know, pros in the in the game understand that it's a

completely different thing, paramutual fixed odds and you

know it's not easy. It's not easy to offer both and

make it seamless, but I I think that's the future.

I think that you open you you open the eyes of new customers

if you get your horse racing product on a sports betting

platform, simple as that. I think it's the future as well,

and I'm glad that this conference continues to hammer

on it. Frankly, I think racing's

already too far behind on it. We knew it was coming.

More should have been done, that we were ready right when it's

launched. Regular readers of my Dollars

and Cents column know how how I feel, but we can't change the

past So so I appreciate that this conference is going to put

it out there again. There have been some strides

made. FanDuel DraftKings, they are

promoting it more for sure. And if you you have one app,

they promote the other app. I know FanDuel has the common

wallet, so I want to give credit where credit's due, but boy, I

sure would like to see horse racing offered as a as a fixed

odds wager on the same site that everybody's using to bet the

Super Bowl. And Pat, I want you.

About that 'cause you're going to have, you know, this ADW, you

know, a piece on AD WS on Wednesday, is that something you

expect to to be part of that conversation as well?

Oh, sure. And and that, that that ADW

panel is, is going to be interesting because something so

basic as where is a bet made is, is the question.

And we, we're still arguing about that in regulators and in

the courts. And you would have thought that

that that answer would have been pretty well, you know, decided

by now, but it certainly hasn't. And, you know, this conference

started as a conference for New York lawyers, right?

It was put on by the law school. And this, this is kind of my

throwback to the old panels where this this will appeal to

the lawyers who are a large part of the the people who come to

the conference, but it will also appeal to non lawyers because

it's just a fascinating question and it and it really needs to

get answered definitively. So that because there's ripples

from from which side you land on, I mean, obviously the, if

Michigan's right and the bets made where the person places it,

well, then their rules apply. And if twins fires is right,

then Oregon's rules will apply where their servers are located.

I mean, pretty important to figure figure that out, you

know. So anyway, I I think this is

like one of those panels that has a a legal aspect to it but

also appeals to to non lawyers, which is what I try to do when I

make the panels. Yeah, it cover covers the topics

and then covers the legal issues.

It's like you have the arguments on which way racing should go on

things and which way gaming, but we're we're most concerned about

the racing here. And then somebody has to write

down and write the rule and get agreement on the rule, which

comes up a lot of times. So the conferences, August 11th

through 13th at Saratoga Hilton. One of the other topics is the

Triple Crown plans going forward, always a hot topic.

How did that come together? Well, I when I forget the name

of the horse now, when the Kentucky Derby winner didn't go

to the Freakness, there's a lot of conversation in that week,

right? Or two weeks coming up to the

freakness. And we were, during that time,

we were putting together the panels, we were trying to, you

know, and we, we landed on that thinking, you know, that's,

that's going to be interesting to really have that conversation

because it's like a lot of things in horse racing and in

the gaming world. People have conversations past

each other and they're they don't, there's no actual

discussion. It's just and and that's well,

what I felt the Triple Crown, you know, conversation looked

like to me as some really smart people saying, well, no, of

course you can't change it. It has to stay the same.

And then equally smart people saying it can't possibly stay

the same. So that, you know, and we've got

Steve Chris, you know, a solid, solid traditionalist wants to

keep the Triple Crown the way it is.

We have Bill Findley and a sort of newer convert to maybe we

ought to we ought to look at this thing.

And then we've got actual guys who won the Kentucky Derby.

We got Kenny Mcpeak as a trainer and then Terry Finley as an

owner. So we're going to cover the,

we're going to cover the bases there and get a lot of different

points of view because, you know, as I say, there are

really, really compelling arguments on both sides of this

thing. Racing for sure, and.

Racingandgamingsaratoga.com. By the way, for everything

happening in August, go ahead, Frank, I'm sorry.

No, I was just going to kind of read my mind because I was going

to say Blood Horse plans extensive coverage, but if

people want to get signed up to attend, how do how do they do

that? Oh, yeah, If you go to the, the

website racingandgamingsaratoga.com,

there is a registration there and a place you can book your

hotel room. And I, I do want to mention that

we have very serious topics here that we've been discussing, but

we also have some fun. We have a nice big welcome party

at the Adelphi Hotel in Saratoga, a beautiful venue,

very historic. The ghost of Mark Twain floats

around there. He used to sit on the front

porch. And then on Wednesday after the

conference conference ends at noon, we take a group to the

track. So it's, it's not all panels.

It's we're trying to make, make room for some fun and, and some

time for people to actually, you know, talk in a, a less formal

atmosphere. So.

Well, Pat, we appreciate it very much.

Again, go check them out at the website

racingandgamingsaratoga.com to get all the information.

August 11th through 13 up there in upstate New York.

Pat, thanks for jumping on, buddy.

We'll talk to you soon, I'm sure.

All right. Thanks for having me.

Appreciate. Good seeing you.

No problem at all. There you go, Pat Brown with us.

Frank, anything stand out? I I always like these segments

because it at least gives me a day where I'm like, OK, people

are at least talking about these things.

You know, at least it's obviously decoupling.

And I mean, some of these are like unbelievably huge issues.

It's one thing to talk about fixed nods.

It's another thing to talk about the public.

Yeah, I went through the agenda and I was really caught my eye

for sure that they're very timely issues.

Immigration's the first topic of the entire panel.

So it just, and it, it started out as a production of Albany.

Well, I don't know if production's the right word, but

it was tied to Albany Law School and Patrick took it over a few

years ago. So it has that law tradition so

that they'll be some discussion from that angle, but but there's

also open discussion on these topics overall and what's the

best path for the industry. And you know, that's where

everybody's coming from to make it work for the industry.

And sometimes there's divergent views on what is best for the

industry. So the those things have to be

settled and then you have to settle the best way of making

that a reality. And like he said, just a chance

to kick around and talk with people and and understand where

people are at is is so important. 12 credits.

So continuing education up for grabs there at Saratoga.

How about? That but yeah, your Co host Sean

Collins will be covering it for the first time and we have

Teresa Gennaro up there who'll be helping us out as well.

So it the panels that we mentioned on here, we, we all,

we plan to cover all of those. So good stuff.

And Frank can't let you go without asking you what's going

on on the website and the magazine.

What's going on right now? Yeah, You know the the Japan

sale was huge today from AUS angle because there were three

Flight Line yearlings offered. They averaged over $1,000,000.

Once I did the conversion from yen, which is just like a

pinball machine number or something.

I don't know what yen, it's very not an easy translation.

But yeah, they came out over a million.

So that's more good news for Flight Line.

Imagine that as good as he was on the track, he's kind of

clearing every hurdle, Wheeling sales last year, yearling sales

this year, getting close to that racing test next year.

So very good indicator for him and he'll be more exciting as

the yearling sales over here start to see some flight lines

pop up. So that's a good thing to

monitor and have fun with. And a half the Forever Young did

very well and Jon Stewart had a big purchase.

Kittasan Black aside, it stands in Japan did very, very well.

So good, good stuff there. It's fun and we've talked about

it on the show. It's it's fun to watch the

Japanese side of things as it develops because we are on an

island and how we do dirt racing in this country.

It's so adding a circuit like Japan that's willing to go along

with us is is not a small thing, I think.

Yeah. I mean, that's for sure.

That is a good, good observation for sure to have them in the

fold on on the dirt side. Big difference.

And and yeah, just a lot at racing heavy this time of year.

We have Sean up in Saratoga along with Bobby Hall.

Teresa's up there, so good team. Karen Johnson's up there.

So we really have a ton of coverage from Saratoga.

Bob E Hold will be attending the high school at Monmouth Park, so

he'll be covering that entire car.

So yeah, we're in the thick of racing and Delmar's right on the

horizon. So it's at racing heavy time of

year at Blood Horse, that's for sure.

And once Sean and I are on the grounds, we'll throw a video up

at bloodhorse.com, our little preview horse by horse of the

Haskell Stakes itself kind of a continuation of Blood Horse

Monday as well. So plenty of coverage of the

biggest races, of course. You can find all of it at

bloodhorse.com. Thanks, Frank.

We'll talk to you next week, Bud.

Thanks, Louis. There you go.

All right, Frank Angst in the library there at the Blood

Horse. We bring back our guy Sean

Collins, who's up at Saratoga on the left.

Make sure you do subscribe to Blood Horse magazine, of course,

right now is that memorial edition for D Wayne Lucas.

And so if you're interested in getting that one, go right now

QR code at the bottom of the screen.

If you happen to be watching us on YouTube or on Spotify, you

can go and get it that way. If you ever wanted to know what

Sean looks like, that's the best way to find out is to watch us

on YouTube or Spotify. It's disappointing, but you can

find out it's. A and you get to see Louise

attempt at a mustache. Too at a mustache.

That's exactly right. Not all of us have dark hair

like you. And I'm not gonna dye things

just to dye them. That's not I'm not doing.

Not doing No. I'm gonna live with my my.

Some people have salt and pepper.

I have salt and salt. You understand me?

So the hair on top of your head's not dyed to look like

your skin? It is not.

That's what I thought we were doing here.

It is not Nope, Nope, Nope. Eardye for me.

I'm just living with skin everywhere is essentially it.

And then and then and then what did what did illman call this

thing last week? You got a dirty upper lip or

something like that? So yeah, there.

You go. But again, go check out the

magazine at Blood Horse, bloodhorse.com.

Nice tab at the top there for the magazine as well if you

happen to be listening on another service.

But certainly use the QR code at the bottom of the screen.

We'll wrap here. Sean.

Appreciate you, buddy. Enjoy, Saratoga.

I will see you on Saturday at the Haskell.

When do you arrive in Eatontown? I should get there that morning.

I unfortunately am not going to be able to make the make the

Friday card, but I should be there probably.

I usually try to make it fairly early in the morning, catch a

little bit of training before before the races start.

Good enough? Well, we will see journalism

there. Thanks Aaron Wellman from

Eclipse Thurman Partners for joining us earlier in the show,

Matt Ditterman who will be calling the races, and of

course, Pat Brown from the Saratoga Racing and Wagering

event as well. There.

So there you go. All right, Sean, busy episode of

Fun One. I will see you on Saturday, my

bud. And we'll call it a quits here

on Blood Horse Monday. The Blood Horse is dedicated to

the improvement of Thoroughbred breeding and racing over 100

years. Don't forget to like, subscribe

and save Blood Horse Monday on all your platform.

For the latest news, analysis and insights, visit us at

bloodhorse.com. Thanks for listening and we'll

see you next week.