BloodHorse Monday | Mike Smith

All right, welcome in. It is a post Valentine's edition

55th rendition of Blood Horse Monday, hanging out with Sean

Collins. My name's Louis Roubeau.

We'll ask Sean about his Valentine's Day in just a short

few moments. But welcome in, my friend.

Our first fifty point Derby prep in the books for sure.

Plenty of talk around that. The Rachel Alexandra, the return

of Bella Ballerina for sure as we go along.

Sean, you're back in the studio. I am, yes.

You're still, I can kind of tell you still need a little bit of

sleep, a little bit a. Little bit, but we're we're

still going, we're coming out of the illness so.

Try to catch up on all of that. By the way, if you are watching,

please hit the sub button. Hit that five star review helps

us with all of our different and all the different that go into

building a show like this. We would love for more people to

find it. And one of the people we've had

on this show before is Mike Smith.

He's a these no introduction on this one.

We had him on last time to talk. Rodriguez of all things.

It's been that long, Sean. How about that?

Back before the Derby, before the Derby, winning the 100th

Wood Memorial there. He joins us from rainy Southern

California. Mike, how are you?

I'm doing well, man. How are you guys?

We're OK. Did you make it home OK?

Driving in the rain in California, I can only imagine.

It's like snow in Kentucky. Yeah, we we made it back.

It was just a little little bit of traffic, but we made it back.

They canceled the races today. So yeah, we're getting quite a

bit of rain here. Yeah, well, we we brought you on

today, Mike. Obviously we had the news last

week that I'm sure most people watching this have heard about

the the passing of John Sheriff's legendary trainer.

And we know you had a very strong relationship with him.

You rode many great horses for him, including Zenyatta and

Giacomo. Just where were you when you got

the news and kind of what were your initial thoughts?

I. Was in shock just because John

was in such great shape man I mean he he loved hiking.

Matter of fact, they just opened up Mount Wilson back up and he'd

already been up there a time or two and I just worked at really

nice cold for him 2 two days before spoke to him actually the

day before his passing. So I, I was just in shock.

I was home and and. But heard rumors.

Of course, right away and then I, I called Dottie and and she

confirmed, you know, that he had passed and he'd sleep like, you

know, the night before last. So anyway, it was, it was a

soccer. It's been, it's been a little

bit trying to for it to even soak in, to be honest with you.

But we lost the we lost one of the great ones there, man.

What's the mood been like out there at Santa Anita the last

couple days? I know I saw, I saw a photo of

like a little flower bouquet set up outside of Zenyatta statue

and you know, all sorts of people kind of sending in their

tributes. But what?

What has it been like in the mornings back there the last few

days? It's been very, it's been very

sad, to be honest with you. You know, we just recently Jim

Cassidy passed as well, who was another big prominent trainer

out here in California, and he passed and John passed and and

that same morning John passed, Mark Lat's wife had passed, man.

So it was it's it's been a it's kind of tough couple of weeks

out here, boy, but we're, we're family back here and where

everyone's kind of gotten together.

We're all pull, we're all pulling through every the game

must go on and and, and but they're going to be Harlem.

They're going to be all sources. So missed, man.

I mean, they were great, great people, man.

And as you well know, John was a was an incredible horseman man.

Mike Smith with us. We're remembering the John life

of John Sheriff and Mike, you've got quite the cast of characters

in California. Every circuit has its own for

sure. We saw some of the the the

videos, for example, around Risen Star Saturday.

I can only imagine what it's like to be down there in New

Orleans this time of year. But a guy like John, I've seen

so many quotes, Mike, from, from fans, from people who worked

with him, people you know, from jockeys, etcetera, that he

instilled a, a certain confidence that he instilled a

certain this sort of, there's almost a class with working with

John. What was it like working with

John Sheriffs? He's amazing, you know, just an

amazing man. He, I mean, he made me feel like

I was just that much better than than than than anyone.

You know, he just, he just had that way of making everyone feel

that way. You really, you really did.

He was a, you know, big, tall, just a beautiful man inside and

out. He, he, he was just a great

human Dean and, and you know, I mean, he was his training

tactics, you know, he gave him all the time in the world and

then some. And then on top of that, you

know, he was never scared or, or, or cared about what people

thought. You know, he'd, he'd step

outside the box and do some awkward things and different

kind of training, you know, styles and different kind of

training techniques and he'd heard about or seen or wanted to

try and, and, and, and just, you know, he treated every horse

was, it was an individual man. They're all different.

They all had their own program. It wasn't like it was just one

program and they all had to train by it.

I mean, each horse was an individual and he treated them

all that way. Well, you obviously rode quite a

few good horses for him as well. Zenyatta and Giacomo, you know,

just are the top of the mountain that we talked about with his

horses. But obviously for you to get the

mounts on those kinds of horses, the relationship had to start

somewhere with John. What was kind of what are your

some of your earliest memories with him?

How did the relationship between you two form?

Yeah, it's a good story. I had met him before.

Of course, I had never ridden for John at the time I was based

out of New York and John was out here in California.

But he had a really good miracle mystique that Gary Stevens was

riding. And that's kind of the first

time I've met John. And he had just gotten the Moss

job when I first came out here. So of course I went by and I

wanted to see if I can get an opportunity to ride some for

him. And it's so funny because he had

just got the 2 year olds in. He said, man, you ain't gonna

believe I just got a 2 year old in by by.

Holy bull, He said come out and take a look and tell me what you

think, man. And of course I he was, he

looked just like his dad, you know, so I was like, wow, he

looks just like a badass. Can I get on?

Of course you can. Yeah, you're going to breathe

next week and you'll get on. Anyway, I got on him and loved

him And, and, and that was the start of our our relationship

was that was actually Jocko Bow. And you know, I just remember

jokingly, once we realized that he he had that kind of talent, I

said, man, you know, this horse, can you, if you get him to to

the Derby, I said, I will win this thing.

This horse is going to redeem his father's name, you know,

because Holy Bowl was such a big favorite the Derby and just

didn't run for whatever reason that day.

But sure enough, lo and behold, we we get in there and he just

runs the race of his life, you know, and, and to win that race

and and you know, it was just incredible how the whole thing

worked out. And then one thing that another

and I wind up riding just about everything for him for several,

several years, you know, and then along comes, you know, you

know, the great Mayor Zenyatta and then and a lot of great ones

in between, between Thiago and we had, I mean, there was so

many good horses we had about, about fan and we had a lot of

fun, man, I'll tell you that. We we had a lot of great times

together. Well, go sticking with Giacomo

there. Obviously that was your first

Kentucky Derby win. It was John's first Kentucky

Derby win. What was what was it like for

him winning that race? Like what do you kind of

remember it meaning to him? I remember seeing something,

somebody, I think it might have been Jenny Reese mentioned that

she asked him when he was at the Derby this past year how many

times that he's watched the the replay of Giacomo.

And he actually said, I've never, I've never watched it

because I have, I have the, I have the memory of it.

I have it in my heart. He has something along those

lines. So what?

What did winning that race mean to him?

Oh, it meant so much to to John and Dottie.

I listen, I was not only did they win it, that was a

homebred, you know, so you win it with a homebred as well.

That just that's like icing on the cake, man.

That's even better. So it meant so much to them

because, you know, he thought all along, you know, these

California tracks back then were really quick.

It was before synthetic and they were fast and it just didn't

suit his style out here. But we thought that, that, that

back Eastwood and and once we got him to Churchill and we saw

the way he was handling that track out there.

And and then if you watched, if you look at the Ray, it was very

talented bunch of horses. I mean, there was really good

horses in there, But but they were all really quick, right?

They were all horses that had to be, you know, somewhat close.

If they weren't on the lead. They were, they were, they were

just right off of it and, and it it's set up for a sets of fast

early pace. It just set up for a closer and,

and and then I mean the the seas just parted everywhere I went.

It just, it's like, it's just like someone opened the door for

me and I just kept, I never had to tap on the brakes, not one

time, which I needed every bit of that to get to the wire

first, you know. So, you know, you talk about not

only getting to win it, but the trip he had was just incredible.

Mike Smith with us. This is BLOOD HORSE Monday.

He's Sean Collins. And I'm Lou Urbel.

Thanks for hanging out with us. 56th edition of this thing, Mike

the the the memory of that of that Derby and then the two

weeks leading into Baltimore. A guy like John Sheriff's, I

have to imagine was the same guy for those two weeks that he was

all the time. Is that true during that Triple

Crown? Did he, was he able to maintain

the John thing or did you even catch him kind of looking ahead?

No, you know, you know, it's so funny going back to to just just

before I get into that. But going back to the Derby, you

know, where would going to end to take the take the win picture

with John, He wasn't nowhere to be found.

I mean, we had to wait. For. 15 minutes because he was

walking back to the barn with a horse.

He didn't even want to take the picture.

He's like, now y'all, you guys go ahead, I'll see y'all back at

the barn. I said, you kidding me?

No, we're not going to go ahead. We're waiting.

I was screaming at him and I literally ride up to him to get

him to come, you know, run up and get him to come back.

He wanted to go back. He said, you guys take the

picture, I'm going back to the barn.

I'll wait for the horse to come back, you know.

And so, yeah, we had him. Yeah, even for the Derby.

And he didn't change one bit in between or or going into New

York. And I think he actually loved

going back into New York a lot too, because he was kind of from

out that area and he admired so many people out that way.

And we loved when we got to go into New York as well.

Yeah, it's funny you say that 'cause I I when when we heard

the news the other day, I went back and I went to find my video

clip of Baeza going into the winner's circle, thinking that I

would have had a shot of John in there next to.

Baeza at the Pennsylvania. Derby.

And he wasn't in there and I saw, I saw him like out in the

back as the horse was walking into the winner's circle.

And I'm like, I didn't realize that was the thing, but.

He he wouldn't get in. No, he, you guys go ahead.

And he loved, he actually loved watching our reaction in the

owner's reaction, you know, he enjoyed that more than being in

there, you know? Yeah, well, obviously the the

major horse that I think he's going to be remembered for the

most is the legendary Zenyatta, who you know very well.

I think one of the things that really has separated Zenyatta

from a lot of other racing stars, the same kind of thing

that accompanied American Pharaoh was how much access was

given to her throughout her racing career.

How much John loved to share her with with the racing public,

share her with anybody that came by the barn.

What was obviously the the whole racing career was exceptional,

but what were those kind of moments like seeing John kind of

take a Zenyatta and share her with the world They.

Were incredible. You know, she was different.

You know, John always said she she's an experienced, you have

to see it to understand it or to believe it.

You know, John always said that and he knew what, what she meant

to the game, what she meant to the sport and into into horse

racing. And so he shared it with

everybody and and he's the one that got me to every time we

were blessed to to, you know, win, you know, one after the

other. He would he would say, listen,

ride her on down to the 16th pole on father.

You know, you normally you'd stop right at the winter.

So he said, let, let everybody see her, plus it'll give her a

little time to cool out, Go ahead and ride her way down

there. You know, so they all had to

wait on us all the time. You know, I'd ride her all the

way down the end of them and she'd just get a, a, it'd be

like a wave of people just standing up and cheering for

her. And the, the fans loved her so

much. And, you know, of course they'd

all come out, you know, see her in the morning after training

hours. And he always took the time to,

to let everybody take a shot with her and, and, and, you

know, help graze her and feed her carrots and, and all that

good stuff. And it was just amazing, the

whole, the whole thing. And it's, it's like John always

says, and you, you have to see it to understand it.

If you didn't, if you didn't get a chance to see it, you hear all

these stories. But when you saw it, you were

like, wow, because it was something to see, you know?

It really was. How much conversation did you

guys have about Zenyatta? Because it it from the outside

looking in, she feels turnkey. It feels like you get on the

back and get out of the way, let her go do the things that she's

great at. But obviously there's much, much

more to that for sure. What were those conversations

like? What was her development like as

you wrote her over the years it? Was a lot of little tricks you

had to do, man. She was, she was tough to train.

She wasn't easy. She'd get out there on the track

and if you took her out there and just backed her up and went

to turn her around and she would run sideways.

She'd go from the outside fence to the inside fence back.

For such a big horse, she's so agile, she'd just go all over

the place. So he got to where he'd take her

back to the quota pole and make her stand and stand and stand.

And that's why that dancing started.

You know, she really didn't do that before, but she had so much

energy built up that, that, that when she would stand still,

she'd have to release it somehow.

And that's she just started that dancing thing and, and that's

how it all started, you know, but but it did help her a lot.

You know, it did help her to, to calm down and kind of gather

herself before she, she got into training.

And, you know, you'd have to train her with several different

horses. So when we when we would breeze

her for a big race, and if you were going to breeze 3/4, it

took two other horses to make her get the 3/4.

Because once she passed the first one, or if she didn't even

have one, she wouldn't really go.

She just took her big old ears and just gallop around there.

But if you put somebody in front of her, of course she'd catch it

so easy that she would think the work was over, you know?

And it was. She was that way in the races as

well. So you'd have one that would

break off a couple in front of her, then they'd have one

waiting for her at the 3/8 polls.

So once I'd pass that one, then I'd hook into a fresh one at the

3/8 poll to get her to finish all the way, you know, through

the wire. And she'd out work them both

almost every time. It was amazing, man.

She really would. Well, when we look at Zenyatta's

career and obviously she got started pretty late and just

based off everything you described there, there was

obviously quite a bit that you guys had to learn about her.

How much of her success was is due to John's patience with her

and just giving her that time to develop, giving her the

opportunity like I guess sacrificing two other horses

every workout to make sure that she had the chance to to, to get

what she needed out of them. Just how much did that patience

really pay off and turn her into the legend that we know her as?

I don't think she she wouldn't have been Zenyatta, you know, I

mean, you know, she certainly could have run out a lot

earlier, but he just never thought, you know, when we were

breathing her early on in her three-year old when she was

three, I I thought she was ready to get.

He said no more time. I was like more time.

I I want to ride her so bad. I didn't, but I wanted to ride

her so bad that the first time you run her, I didn't get to

ride her because I had to be out of town.

And he decided all out of the whim all of a sudden now she's

ready and you're going to run her 3/4 of a mile.

Are you kidding me? And I, I was like, you know, I

got to be out of town. You can't run her now and don't,

don't. And it was, it was Thanksgiving

Day and I had to ride a Philly called Tessa Blue for Frankie

Brothers at Churchill. She was a really nice man as

well. You know, I'd win a Group One on

her, you know, so, so I, you know, I, I had to go ride her.

So I didn't get the rider the first couple of times that she

ran, but I finally got her back. I threw a fit until I got her

back too. Boy, he he he never stopped

hearing it, you know, from from the time I got home, I was like,

I'm riding her next time he's like, well, we'll see.

I might have to. We got this other Philly.

I think you got to be out of town this next time as well.

And so, but finally it all worked out when we got back

together again and the rest was history.

But but honestly, if, if, if you, if you wouldn't have took

that that time, you know, she won't, she would, you know, she

was big. She was 17 two, you know, she

was growing. She had a lot of, you know,

mentally and physically she she just needed time and needed

time. And then when he got time, he

even gave her more time and and that's what she needed.

And I I don't think she'd have been who she was without John

all. Right.

So we've all seen the Breeders Cups, we've seen some of these

races. What's the one that you think's

kind of an under the radar great performance by hers that even a

guy like John was like, man, that I can't believe she won

this one. There was a time I can't

remember drawing a blank on the Philly that we beat, but she was

a really good Philly for Mike Mitchell, man.

I don't know why I'm just drawing a blank on her name

right now, but she was a really nice bear in her own right.

She was a Group 1 winner in her own right.

And I was spotting her so much weight and they got to go so

slow and that Philly of Mike Mitchell's had some turn of foot

man. So she had a good five link head

start on me from like inside from the quarter pole to the 8

pole. And she just opened up on me

where I you you'd have thought there's no way in the world

Zenyatta could catch her. And it it seemed like it took it

took the link to the stretch, but in in two jumps, she just

went boop and just got her that fast.

Man, it was crazy. And that mayor never was the

same again. I don't think that mayor ever,

ever made it back to the races. I mean, she did that to quite a

few Phillies. You know that they would, she

would just crush them, man. I mean, spiritually and and and

physically, she was just, she would do that to you and she'd

make them run so hard and she would just beat them with their

ears straightforward. She was just amazing, man.

What is it about the Phillies and mares, Mike?

Why do we fall in love with them?

What, what is it about them? What is it about the Zenyatas

and the Torpedo Anas and the, you know, what is it about

these, these these Phillies and mares, man?

Personality, man, they're just, they're just the nerds are so

special, man, they really are. They're all different.

I mean, look at all the great mirrors that we've gotten to see

and everyone remembers them too. You know, Rachel and of course,

Ruffian and, and you know, all the great mayors that that have

come up. But of course they remember the

boys too. But there's something about the

mayor, Philly and mayors, man, they're, they're, they're just

special. Well, one kind of final question

I have relating to John. It's just I, I know you kind of

touched on it already a little bit, but when somebody comes up

to you in the future and they ask you like, oh, what was John

Sheriff's like? What's what's your?

What's your go to answer? He was just the kind, he was the

kindest man I ever met. He really was.

He had a huge heart man. And it just made you feel so

good when you're around me. He actually, he just made

everybody, I just like used to think that I was that good.

He made me feel like I was that good, but I didn't realize he

was making, you know, Gary Stevens and and and Victor

Espinoza and everybody else feel that way as well.

And Chris Mccaren, I mean, they'll, they'll all tell you,

yes, you know, Chris Mccaren, all these guys about John, He

just made you feel good, man. He was just a wonderful,

wonderful horseman. And you could just see it, his

horses, the care that he took for him, they all had their own

special drink that he'd make them, you know, one had a carrot

smoothie, this one had a Guinness beer, and this one had

this. And this one, you know, and he

just took the time every day to take care of each and every

horseman. He's just an amazing dude.

Anyway, I couldn't just say one thing, you know, I'd have to sit

down and have a good, good long time to talk to you, to tell you

all about him, you know? Well, we do want to look ahead a

little bit here as well and ask you about one of the horses that

you're currently riding and, and so happy, the winner of the San

Vicente Stakes. I believe the plan was to kind

of point him forward toward the San Felipe next, stretch him out

around the two turns. What do you think of him

stretching out when you're thinking towards some of these

races later in the spring? I mean, listen, he showed that

he has the ability to be with, with the top three-year olds.

I mean, he showed them, you know, that in the Sprint races.

Now, now he's got to do it going around 2 turns, you know.

But man, he gives me every indication that that he will,

you know, you know, after each and every race there's he's not

that he recovers real quick. He's not in distress.

The best part of his race is at the end early on, but yet he's

tactically quick enough to be you know, he's the right kind of

horse tactically to have in these in these classic races,

these three-year old races, because he'll get you position

going into that first turn right away.

He just got to be able to to get the two turns.

Now. We won't know that for a fact

until he actually does it. I mean, we just sit here and

talk about all all we want, but, you know, people say, well, he's

got run Happy, You know, well, Run Happy's father won the

Kentucky Derby and then Run Happy.

Run Happy really only tried to go long one time in the Breeders

Cup mile. And that was a torrid pace.

I mean, a horse that could get a mile and a quarter wouldn't it

wouldn't it got a mile going that fast early on.

So I mean, I, I, I think they can, it can be done.

We've already had a couple others that have gone long so.

We'll just have to see though, you know, he'll have to go out

there and do it. He's training good right now.

We had a, you know, minor set back a while, about four or five

works back. But right now he's like training

lights out again. Work yesterday morning worked

really, really well. He'll have two more major works

before before his race and then we'll we'll see what he does.

So happy out of a blame mayor. I think that's kind of a perfect

way to but a perfect way to start to end this conversation

with Mike Smith as well. Does that make?

I agree? Does.

That make you not want to rise to.

The Bell. No, because no.

Because blame OG man. He owes me a lot blame.

I got to get it out there somewhere.

Yeah, he's just paying me back. Yeah.

Blame feels bad for me. So he's just, he's paying me

back from one of his, one of his, you know, friends, his

grandson, you know, he's paying me back.

Well, that's the good stuff for sure.

Well, Mike, thank you so much for making the time.

We we we really do extend our condolences to everybody out of

sanity you. Guys Donnie know as well.

You guys are going through it right now and Mark and everybody

for sure, please, please put arm around everybody for us.

We appreciate it very much and thanks for being with.

Us as well. Thank you.

Thanks, Mike. Thank you, Mike.

I got Mike Smith, now friend of the show, Mike Smith, once

you're on second time, you're a friend of the show for sure.

Appreciate him jumping on all the Zenyatta stories are

incredible, all of them. And I, it's one of those, so you

interviewed me for Blood Horse when we started doing this

thing. OK.

And one of the things I said at the end that I actually got a

lot of comments on was that I said I love the people in this

sport. And John's one of those people

when you hear the stories, he he had Zenyatta to display and he

did it right. All of the great stories that we

talked about in horse racing are on the track for sure.

But when you feel like you're connected to the great athletes

of our sports, it makes it that much better.

I never felt connected to flight line.

I never felt connected to many of the great Colts who have been

in our game. But I feel like I, I know

Torpedo Anna. Yeah.

I feel like I saw Zenyatta after, you know, days and days

and days of him making her available to crowds when she was

here at Churchill Downs for that Breeders' Cup.

I, you know, I feel those connections to Rachel, to other

horses, you know, other mares in that group and it.

And a guy like John understood that just intuitively, it seems

right. All the stories are, you know,

and A and a, you know, just other, for example, other

podcasts and horse racing started because the guys

followed Zenyatta. Like guys got into horse racing

because of Zenyatta, and that's because of Jon.

And you hear guys like Mike Smith saying he's the one who

gave me confidence. And then he mentions Victor

Espinoza, he mentions Gary Bleeping Stevens, all these

kinds of things. It is a remarkable reminder of

how much one person that you might not interact with can

really affect even your life. And John's one of those guys.

Cool stories. I really appreciate my jumping

on. Yeah, it's a tough time out

there right now. Yeah, well, some of the stories

I have with John kind of, you know, go on that same thing.

I only got to talk to him a couple times toward the end of

last year. That's my new Derby.

Yeah, first time I like, you know, I've interviewed him maybe

a couple times. You know, it's in that large

group of people. It's Derby time where you're

seeing like all sorts of new, new faces for the trainers,

especially when it comes to people interviewing you.

So the Pennsylvania Derby was the first opportunity where we

had to kind of like actually have a conversation with him.

And I remember Baeza didn't even come out on the track that first

morning I was there or something.

But John was just walking around looking at everything.

And I I asked him. I was like, you know, what are

you like, it's just cool to see you kind of here looking.

And he's like, what, I've never been here before.

I just want to see everything. And so like he he was that kind

of person where he was like just kind of taking it in even

somewhere like parks, which isn't thought of as, you know,

kind of a top tier racetrack. But he was just like, I just

want to see everything. And MM mentioned that that

little thing about the not going in the winner's circle.

And then I mentioned that happened with Baeza.

He was up there. He had to get out of flight an

hour after at Basel at that race to go back to California.

But you know, he, he stopped. We, we, we ran him down and we

stopped. He stopped to answer our

questions after the race. And then, so that was kind of

like the first interaction I had with him.

And then I was at the Breeders Cup, you know what, 6 weeks

later, 5 weeks later and he, I was on the one viewing stand on

the backstretch and he comes walking up and he sees me up

there. We've only had like what, 2

conversations at parks and then the post race interview at parks

and he walks up, he's like, oh, I know you, you look familiar.

And so like, awesome. Yeah.

So you know, he like he remembers we kind of caught up a

little bit. But then two days after that, on

actual Breeders' Cup day with Baeza, he actually ended up

being directly next to me for the running of the race itself.

Because we just, anybody who knows me knows I always try to

get above the finish line of an elevated view.

And that just happened to be where he was trying to get as

well. So we were kind of standing side

by side. We talked a little bit.

I wished him luck. But then going your point about

the impact that he's made on people that he's never met

people in front of us, one of them looked back, you know, as

we're having the conversation. And then I saw him whisper to

his wife. And then his wife goes, you

trained Zenyatta, didn't you? And so then it turned into, so

here we are like 5 minutes from Baeza running in the richest

race in America and we're having Zenyatta conversations.

That's just, that's the impact that she had.

That's the impact that she had because of him.

And so he was a big part of that.

I see you have his page pulled up on the screen right now where

you have that, that picture of him throwing the hat into the

crowd after she won the Breeders Cup Classic.

But like just, you know, you mentioned sharing the horses

with people. I think the greatest example of

this is the difference in how we all feel about American Pharaoh

and justify both, both of them won the Triple Crown.

But and not to say Bob Baffert didn't share justify, but he was

obviously around a lot shorter. He was in the public eye for a

lot shorter time period versus Pharaoh.

And he also had the being the first one in 37 years.

He had that. But the Haskell.

Yeah, he had. He had the appearance of the

Haskell for Travers and just like the like I remember,

remember, you know, being the the videos seeing him and the

barn the day after Belmont with like just a swarm of people

around him telling him and the excess that Bob Baffert gave

people to him. And I mean that that was I, I

was already a huge racing fan, but that was part of what sealed

the deal even more for me on Pharaoh.

And you know, I, I have my YouTube channel now named after

Pharaoh that is based on that kind of thing of the in person

experience at the race tracks and getting up close to these

horses and seeing them for the incredible athletes they are.

And it's thanks to Bob Baffert sharing American Pharaoh that I

do that. And it's that probably was a

little bit thanks to seeing how much.

And I saw a couple people commenting on Twitter the other

day after he passed away, talking about times like where

they came by to see her. She wasn't out yet.

And then he brought her out for them.

And it just kind of when you recognize that you have a

superstar the sport and how much people can really connect

specifically with horses and then you share them, I think

that plays a huge role in it. There's probably countless,

countless fans that are fans of this game and follow this sport

because of her. And that is because of him,

because of what he did with her. So that's going to be a lasting

legacy that he has. I thought Mike summed him up

perfectly. But yeah, a great loss for the

sport here, yeah. 2009 wins the Breeders Cup Classic, of course,

with Zenyatta also wins the distaff at that time.

Of course the Ladies Classic with Life is sweet in the same

year because and I remind people of that only Sean, because more

recently in our minds and for good reason are Mystic Dan and

torpedo Anna because of Kenny and and Kenny Mcpeak deserves

all of the credit for that. Brian Hernandez deserves all of

the credit for that. I'm not putting those things

down at all, but no need to forget that that was also done

on a Friday, Saturday at a Breeders' Cup of all things, at

a very, very high level by a guy, I'm sure.

So, you know, but like we did the same thing with Jose

D'Angelo this year when he won back-to-back Breeders' Cup

races, you know, on the on the same day, same card, different

horses, of course, but you know, those sorts of things whenever

there's a an incredible double like that.

But I've, I was so taken, Sean, all of the tributes, this is

when, you know, people are, are very much of a very specific ilk

that all the stories about them are the same.

Yeah, they're all the same. All the John Sheriff's are the

same. I guarantee if we got Gary

Stevens on and did the interview like we did with Mike, it would

sound the same. If we talked to Victor Espinosa,

it would sound the same. And that is a massive testament.

It also speaks to you've been around the game long enough.

The best trainers are the same people all the time.

Yeah, because the job requires it.

Right. And if you run, like, I know

what Brendan Walsh is wearing right now, I know which vest he

wore to the track this morning. Like, I know exactly what he's

wearing right now. Brad Cox has.

I know what, his hat. There's a blue hat on Brad Cox

right now. There are things, you know, But

what I'm getting at is that was John.

And so in between the no, no, you go to the winner's circle.

This is your horse. And oh, you want to see

Zenyatta? I can do that for you.

He's almost, Yeah. I don't know a good analogy

there, but it's a remarkable. Mike mentioned this one point

briefly and I don't want to gloss over it.

The we had we had this story on blood horse last year right

before the Belmont of the the carrot smoothie that he made for

Baeza because Baeza like didn't like chewing the chewing the

carrots. And so they would they, I mean,

they would spend the time to grind the carrots, spend the

money to get this many carrots as needed for that, grind it

into a smoothie for him. Could it because he could drink

it but like. Only horse I know that doesn't

love to chew a carrot. I know, but like MM mentioned in

that same sentence, the Guinness, that was something

he's in the attitude, but like, you know, just taking the taking

the time and the effort, you know, to make sure that as Mike

said, that he was taking care of every single individual horse,

whatever they needed. He was there to make sure that

he was taking care of them. That was, I mean, that was such

a huge part to his success and to why, you know, his horses

were as good as they were. I interviewed Jinx Fires.

He's going to win the national HBPA lifetime Achievement award,

essentially Living Legend Award. And he said all of the same

things that John Sheriff said about training.

It's just that John Sheriff trained said yeah, and he won

with Giacomo and that's. He'll be different for that

forever, right? I mean, that's that's really the

difference. And it is nice when people who

accomplish great things are also very nice people.

And John did that for our sport for sure.

And he will absolutely be missed.

And it was one of those I got the news and I immediately

texted Barry because we work on the Southern California show

together and and we just both just this moment of wait, what?

He's got good horses like he's still doing.

He's still, he's not just still training.

He's training at the highest level in the sport.

He's top horses in the country, but it's just a just a stunner

for sure. Yeah, I got AI got a text from

my friend Alex. He was like, is is this true?

Did he did he die? And at that point I hadn't heard

it yet. And then so I went online and I

was like, Oh yeah, I guess that's true.

I ended up spending the entire night that night.

I went back, this probably wasn't the race I should have

watched, but I went back and watched the full ESPN broadcast

from the 2010 Breeders' Cup class.

And so just, yeah, just just seeing like the that was cool to

watch, even even though, you know, I was in the auto lost

that race just to see like the the craziness of the crowd and

like how much they loved her and how much like the seeing how

deep the Rose were in the paddock.

And like this isn't the Kentucky Derby and Churchill still fill

to the brim of people. And then I ended up spending a

spending a little bit like finding people's on site, like

video cameras hearing like that devastating like, Oh, and she

just missed. But it was just.

That Oh yeah, it's one. Of the just like, I mean, we, we

always dream of having horses like that and experiences like

that. And the way we get them is by

having people like John with the horse and, you know, kind of

lifting them up, sharing them with people.

That's how we get that kind of connection with people for sure.

Horses trying to become Zenyatta include Bella Ballerina, to the

credit of Brendan Walsh, she's quoted as saying.

Why can't she be as good as pretty mischievous?

No pressure. Luckily Bella Ballerina doesn't

speak English and so she doesn't know that he said that would you

make of her performance this weekend?

Golden rail at the fairgrounds. But still you got to take

advantage of it to win the race. Yes, you do.

And yeah, I mean, she battled back hard on the on the inside

of that Rachel Alexandra Stakes. She's been, she was one that

coming out of last year I thought was probably my, my Top

Oaks horse. And so I thought this was this.

I feel like this was a, this was a hard race to come back in the

way that she ended up running like where she got headed by

love your neighbor and had the battle back on the inside.

But I think she's going to build a lot off of that.

I, I did, I did like to win. I like seeing the motivation to

come back on the inside because I mean, she was, I, I had

already, I, I didn't get to watch the races live this

weekend because I was, I was, I was out and bad.

It was Valentine's Day, so I was out and about.

But what do you really? Love.

So I already knew she had won when I watched the race and like

halfway down the stretch I was like, how did she win this?

I was like, was there a disqualification or something

that she, she came back and she won and I was like, OK, so I I

think she. She does that bother you at all

that she got passing the stretch?

No, because I like that she fought back.

OK, Yeah, I like, I like seeing that she fought back.

And I think I think she'll improve off of that first start

of the year, first start off in a couple months.

I'm not going to discount or anything like that.

I love your neighbor is a good horse.

She has a good horse and Luisi is frankly about as well timed a

trip as he was ever going to get.

He gave her the best chance to win in that.

Spot Yeah, I I don't know. I'm had a great day.

I'm looking. You got the chart up here.

I don't know how she was 7 to one in that people are leaving

money out there, but I was. But it's not like this was like

some well, even like a couple other horses that were three to

one in that race. So I don't know why I love your

different. Wasn't one of them, but but like

this wasn't just some random 50 to one shot who was running the

big race like this was a good horse and she got passed and she

battled back on the inside. And so I I I like I like like to

see where she's moving forward. I don't know if they'll keep her

at fairgrounds or if. She'll end up if she likes it,

I. Would think so too.

Because even the second place finish up next track.

Is Kentucky Oaks, Yeah. I mean, love your neighbors.

Right on that. She's knocking on the door right

now. Yep.

So because that's 20 points right there.

Yeah. So yeah, I think they we've got

2 legit horses in the in the Philly division down there at

Fairgrounds from this weekend so.

Exciting is Bella ballerina top of your.

Yeah, I would say her and Zany probably.

I would have zany ahead. That's yeah.

Yeah, I actually, but I, I, I've been bad.

I also very much trust. Back and watched her race.

Oh, OK. But I do trust.

But yeah, I do trust I. Did like her dem Wiselle and I

had her up there and so I've heard, I've heard the Suncoast

was impressive, so I need to go back and watch it at some point.

So after I it's one of those two, I just have to actually go

watch that race. I also very much trust Brandon

must have already by. Yeah.

So we're having, we know the bloodline is going to be good

enough, very not worried. About it, yes, correct.

On the other side of things, and this is when I know the Blood

Horse Monday effect is, is real. I'm talking to Kevin Kilroy, who

we've had on the show from fairgrounds on my radio show on

Friday. And the phone rings during the

segment. And it is Brooke Smith, owner of

Paladin, calling during a radio segment to tell us how great his

horse looks. Yeah, I didn't think.

Colin, right. Now, not Brooke.

OK, so are they live or not? I Here's all of the things I

need to say about Paladin. That is an obviously very

talented horse who is also very green in his third run ever, and

by the time we get to May, he is going to be a monster.

Yes, that is what I need to say about Paladin.

Who do you think rides Paladin going forward?

This is hilarious. This is hilarious.

Can we not have a hilarious moment about Paladin because

Tyler's got them out? Do we remember this story

before? This is funny.

It's OK to say out loud. Do they make the change back to

Pratt immediately? My guess is yes.

Right. I mean, I would think so.

The only reason Pratt missed was because he was out.

He was out in Saudi Arabia. So, like, you can't really blame

him for, you know, he's trying to win a $20 million race

halfway across the world. You can't really.

Tyler's totally OK getting a $300,000 check headed that the

horse. So I, I would imagine Flavin

gets back on, but yeah, I did, I did really like this

performance. I know I've made some comments

about the the the quality of the Louisiana horses right now in

the. Do you consider Paladin part of

the Louisiana trail since he's. Blue, I'm glad to see that he

shipped in, he handled business and he went on.

I do want to say I I was more impressed with Chipancho in this

race and even I was in his gun runner win.

I thought he ran really well. I also, you know, he did get the

lead kind of to himself. So I don't know what how I feel

about him Derby potential wise. But I do love Steve Asmeson

every year has that one horse that just dances every dance

down there at fairgrounds, and I love it and I hope he keeps

doing and he keeps having the horse every year.

I think outside of Paladin, when we're looking toward the Derby,

I'm not really liking any of any of the Derby contenders that are

down there in Louisiana. And obviously nothing's going to

ship out. What about the that's becoming

like the Chad Brown route, the Remsen, the Risen Star and

Bluegrass? At least with Sierra Leone and

now with Powell, right? Oh, Xander, that's true.

Yeah, a good point. So, so that's kind of becoming

kind of becoming the thing now that when we know he has a legit

horse, we kind of we can kind of watch for, for, for this little

well. Let's be be clear, Brad Cox has

a serious St. Gulfstream now.

Yeah, right. We've known Pletcher's going

through that route already. Pletcher's now starting to use

Tampa in a real Ripoli's using Tampa in a really serious way.

So it makes sense that you would need to look.

Cox is going to be at fairgrounds, but who else is

there? It's asthma and him and sharp,

right? And then locals, right.

And So what I'm saying is if you're, if you're talking about

good dolphin level horses, like a paladin or a, you know, cool.

More. Cool more in this case, yeah,

excuse me, but in a cool more in this case or Bella Ballerina is

what I meant. I'm sorry, is, is a is a good

dolphin horse. When you've got those kinds of

horses at that very high level, you do have to kind of avoid

some of the other ones. I mean, Renegades at Tampa,

right? Until you come over here and you

run in this spot. Yeah.

They might beat Renegade, but you know, I think well.

The thing I really like about it too is, I mean he's going to be

well traveled by the time he gets to the Derby, which I like

when I do the horse. We know that the horses can

handle different kind of different kind of scenarios

where we know that they can handle different kind of things.

I do kind of, I hope this starts picking up some traction.

Maybe we maybe we get them together in the Bluegrass or I

think maybe Renegade's just going to go Tampa Bay Derby.

But I like that we have the potential for a little rivalry

now between these two. Renegade beat Paladin in their

first start but was disqualified.

So Paladin was given the win and then Paladin came back and beat

him in the rim. And now that they're splitting

up and turning into two of the major players here on the Derby

trail. So I like that kind of storyline

going into the Derby. I think that makes for a fun

Kentucky Derby at the two of them are at the top of their

game if they bowl run well and then moving forward into the

summer. I like, I like that.

I like rivalries, like. That it gets me going.

I'm wishing them both success so that way we can have that kind

of rivalry. I mean, look how fun last year

was with sovereignty journalism and Baeza.

If we could get another one off that, I think that'd be pretty.

Cool quality mischief will run in the Pad de Mile.

You heard it here. Will he win the Pad de mile?

No. OK, but he will run.

So if you're. That's my guess, the bet on

who's going. To be on the field, That's my

guess, Louis. Is telling you to place that.

Oh man, Derby preps and Oaks preps this weekend will be just

up the street from us. What's up?

We got, we missed a couple. We got to talk about oh.

Sunland Yeah. What am I We.

Should probably mention Saudi too at least I don't know about

the Derby. I don't know how much the Derby

is going to really impact anything but the the Saudi Cup

we got to talk. So let's start Sunland Sunland

Derby here you. Want to do Sunland Derby next?

I watched it yesterday. I wrote the recap.

Look at you, a little recap talk.

Talk about this race. Well, you wrote the recap for a

publication called Blood Horse. bloodhorse.com.

Sean, check it out. Yeah, How was that good?

I I don't know as far we had express kit coming into this

race, obviously coming out of the springboard mile and then he

goes and he sells for a whole lot of money at a flash.

Digital sale, by the way. Let's do, let's set this up a

little bit differently. OK.

So Sunland Derby, I imagine people kind of just go whatever.

Yeah, OK. Especially now that it's 20

points and not 50. But let's do this anyway.

In the past, in this race, you've had horses like Governor

Charlie, OK, couple of, you know, about a decade ago,

Getaway Car last year, OK. And then the year before St.

Anita Derby came, a Derby winner came out of this race and

Stronghold. Yep.

OK, didn't even go back to slow down.

Andy, if you hear slow down Andy a couple years before that fire

lines in this group. OK, so this is all of us should

think of this as another stop on the West Coast Derby Trail as

far as I'm concerned. Yeah, OK, That's what this is.

And it's the two turns, it's distance, it's all the things.

So you do get good car, you cars, getaway car.

You get good horses out of this race.

Now, whether you like the winner this year or not is a different

question. You were talking about the

Remington, the springboard map. Yeah, well, you had a nice horse

and express kit kind of popping up back here and I mean

Pavlovian Express kid I don't think was stopping.

I think Pavlovian just kind of ran him down at at the end of

that race. And looking at Pavlovian's past

performances, it probably not one that super excites you when

you're thinking about his long term potentials.

When you look at like, OK, he won the Sun 1 Derby, but he

seems like the kind of horse, especially listening to Doug

O'Neill talk about him afterwards, he seems like the

kind of horse who's been really tricky in the races.

You might, I don't know if you remember from Breeders' Cup

Friday, he was in the Golden State juvenile and he dropped

his rider at the start of the race.

So he he's been quirky. He's had some some things that

they've had to figure out. But I mean, we just talked with

Mike Smith about how once they figured everything out was

Zenyatta, obviously she turned into this great horse.

Not saying that Pavlovian's going to be Zenyatta, but it

seems like they're finally starting to figure it out.

They they finally kind of got him out of the gate properly and

he stalked the pace and then he ran down a legit horse on the

lead. So, and on top of that, I think

as well the distance is getting longer and I think that will

help him. So I don't know if he's

necessarily a Derby horse, but he's definitely one that you

can't just throw out because it was the Sunland Derby or

whatever it might be that he's coming around.

He's finally figuring it out and we'll see what he I'm assuming

he's going to end up probably in the Santa Anita Derby as yeah,

almost would be my guest for his next start.

Like they'll give him the shot in there.

And I, I think he's 1. You have to consider for sure.

I don't know what where they send express kit after this, but

I, I did, I did like his win and I, I wouldn't put him like the

top of my rankings or anything like that.

But I do think this is a horse that you have to see if he takes

another step forward. I was very underwhelmed.

I think this is the slowest speed figure we'll get in a

Derby prep this year. And I'm going you're getting 2

opinions right? Here and I'm going back to the

Iroquois, I think this will be the worst winner of a race.

I think this is a $3000 calpred. I mean, I, I, I think that what

do you? Think about Express.

Kit, do you think I don't? Yeah, I don't, I think they sold

him right when you should sell those like perfect timing on

that. Good for them, especially

especially. On the on the Derby, on the

Derby side of things, I'm thinking maybe distance wise,

like he could be like maybe an ice.

Horse this is This is a horse that couldn't win Cal Bread

Stakes. He was also having problems

getting out of the gate though now that he's getting out, he

was second the best pal last year.

We'll throw that out there. So he is great at Stakes Place.

Over winter, yes. Yeah.

But. I'm.

I'm not I'm. Not going to say at this point I

disagree with you, but I am saying I I'm going to give him

another shot in the next week to see what he.

Does. Oh, we've seen way weirder

things out of the Doug O'Neill barn.

And by the way, shout out to Doug O'Neill.

This horse has already started 9 times in his career.

Yeah. Shout out what would you have

done? What would you have said about

I'll Have Another after he shocked the Robert B Lewis at 40

to 1? But his speed figures were good,

like he his time was good, like he was a good winner.

Of paying attention to speed figures back well, fair.

Enough, yeah, but no. But he was a good he a terrible

parent. Sean the but no the in the.

Races, but I wasn't looking at the speed.

Your mom's not beaten by your speed figures into your head.

I mean, come on mom, be better. But the but no, I think I just

think Pavlovian's slower. The Pablo horses are fine.

If you want to go like a mile and 1/2 on the turf and just

plod your way to the end, it's totally fine.

But you know, Belly me Rd. on the damn side.

I mean, I don't know that there's all, by the way, a

million good cowbread races. Yes, like he'll be far.

He'll be. Successful.

Like we just saw Man of Rose win yesterday in the Palos Ferris.

Yes, in the Palos, Ferris and. I think that was open company.

It is. It was great three.

And what I'm getting at is the cowbreads are still good.

They're just usually not Derby good.

That's why California Chrome stands out so much yes, because

they're not usually that level anymore.

Now they used to be for sure, but Pat, I mean Pavlovian, I

think is probably a step below some of those.

Who else did you want to talk about Sean?

Well, forever young maybe we got.

To talk about forever young out there taking down niceos in that

Saudi Cup. I want to hear your opinions on

this race first because you texted me very very very excited

after. The oh, I think, I think we got

exactly what all of us need North American wise out of that

race. We need, we need forever young

to be the target for November for everybody.

He showed that again. We need Nicos to step into the

group of four year olds that's back.

Now he's 5, but step into that older group and be capable over

two turns. I think his landing spot will

probably be Ali Sheba when he comes back.

Do you agree? I would think so.

Unless he goes to. Unless they go to UAE which I

like. Yeah, I could see that.

I just. I think, by the way, I felt very

justified in my Eclipse vote having those two in my top three

for older dirt male. I felt like it backed up that

those two are two of the best three in the world.

Yeah, but that that was this year, not last.

Year no, but I what I'm getting. It was.

Three months ago when we voted or a month ago when we voted or

whatever, like, no. But what I'm getting at is it it

actually, but I like that part that they're they took a step

into the next season, yes, and we get to see them be great

again. I think Nisos can actually get.

Way better this year. Can I give my hot take now?

Please. I think Forever Young proved

Nisos isn't at that level. OK, got it.

Sure. I don't think he is right now.

I agree with you. Well, and not to say that he's

not. By the way, who else?

Who else on the planet is it for every young?

Well, I know that's what I'm saying is I think he's

separating himself. Okay, that's that'll listen to

all. Because I'm not saying nice

isn't gonna come back and run the table.

The rest of the definitely. Do I think it's absolutely a

possible but? I think he he was alongside

forever young and I know he he was wider on the turns forever

but. We don't even make excuses,

ever. Young was in a tougher spot.

I think being on the rail, getting the dirt kicked back.

He was in a more uncomfortable spot and the two of them turned

for home and they were side by side and it never felt like

Naisos was going to get him and then forever young separated

himself at the end and he's coming off of however many

months it's been since the since the classic.

He did not have a prep race going into this race like he did

last year. Last year he ran right at the

end of December out there in Japan before he went over to

Saudi. He didn't have that this year

and he get still gave that kind of performance.

And I think I think we saw for every young and and maybe part

of this is just because Sierra Leone and fierceness are retired

now too. But I think we saw forever young

really did show himself as I am the clear #1 dirt horse in the

world and outside of sovereignty.

I don't know if we're going to see anybody that could could

take him down. So we'll see what Vertique comes

back with each year, but do. You think sovereignty is

anywhere near his level? Yes, I do.

I still think if Sovereignty was in the Classic, I think he would

have won. I still think that 'cause I

think the way the race set. Up it runs like a 158 change.

Well, I think, yeah. Well, I, I think, I think

serious the right. Yeah.

Well, I don't know if it would be 158, but I mean, he would

have. I think he would have.

The way I look at these races, like the classic is I try to

imagine where he would have been in the race.

I think he would have been ahead of Sierra Leone.

I think he would have moved before Sierra Leone.

I think that would have given him the opportunity to catch

Forever Young where Sierra Leone didn't.

So I do think that if sovereignty was at the top of

his game, I still think that he would have won that class.

Obviously we'll never know, but I do think that obviously

Forever Young is the legit horse right now.

And who knows if we'll get that same kind of set up at

Keeneland, especially now that Forever Young's, Forever Young's

going to be ahead of sovereignty in the early part of the race.

We, I think we know that Keeneland, I feel like plays

more to where Forever Young could be successful with that.

I feel like, I feel like it's hard to really be a deep closer

Keeneland. Sometimes there's big races like

that, especially on a day like Breeders' Cup you think back to.

To be fair, I mean, Sierra Leone won the bluegrass.

I mean, well, yeah, but I'm thinking in a very close

Breeders' Cup like we've seen. The three classics that have

been there evolved. I'm just trying to think of of

dirt horses that I don't have clothes from way off but I

guess. Technically wasn't get to wire

because life is good but that that was but what a waste.

What a waste by the. Way Anyway, Long long time long.

But. Yeah, so, but I just think

Forever young has shown that whatever is racing right now,

he's just above it on the dirt and we'll see.

We'll see whether or not that continues on.

I'm obviously when he comes over here.

We'll see what the three-year olds turn into as the year goes

on. We'll see whether sovereignty by

ASA journalism, I don't know. I feel bad saying them in that

order. I got to say a sovereignty

journalism base because that's the order they always finish in.

But so. I think the horses that don't

know you're talking about them will be OK.

No they won't. Journalism will clear at me next

time he sees me so but. Journalism will glare at me the

next. Time I see them but we'll see if

they can take a step forward here in four years old, yeah,

Forever young is the horse to beat on the dirt in the world

right now and I don't know if it'll be possible to do it.

He lost the Dubai World Cup last year.

I think not having the race before the Saudi Cup will help

him this year. And I I I can't imagine

somebody's going to go over there, especially when we're not

sending over sovereignty, journalism or any of those guys.

I can't imagine anybody, unless something goes wrong, forever

young, he's not feeling it that day.

I can't imagine anybody beating him in Dubai.

I imagine because of what you just said, as far as how you

feel the the classic would have gone had sovereignty been in it,

that you do not think of Forever Young as one of the great horses

of your lifetime. No, I didn't say that because I

consider sovereignty one of the great horses of my lifetime so

far. He could ruin that reputation

this year, but I would put him up there.

I'm not saying like he's top five yet at this point or top

10. I'm trying to think if I think

of sovereignty as great. It's interesting.

I think he. Is I think he had a very.

I, I, I know, but I still, I still put a lot of praise into

who he beat. I I still put a lot of praise

into journalism by ASA and you can point out the Breeders Cup

Classic and them getting beat there.

Like no, no, you don't have to do this.

You. Don't have to do this as far as

the classic goes. I mean, we're looking at who I

just mentioned forever young as being head and shoulders above

the rest of the world right now. But then Sierra Leone and

fierceness. I think we're going to look back

at the the Derby 150 crop, the Derby crop of 2024.

I think we're going to look back as that as one of the great 3

year old crops of the of this century, at least so far.

It's at least a possibility. Yeah, 'cause I mean, you got, I

mean, obviously Mystic Dan didn't have as much success as

the other guys did, but he still came back and won great at

stakes races and was competitive and everything he ran in and the

Sierra Leone and Forever Young come back and do what they do.

You have fierceness come back that that's just a good, good

crop of three-year olds. And so journalism ran what he

got beat by them, but he was there with them in the Classic

by ASA, I don't think necessarily got the greatest

trip in the classic. And I think he'll, he'll step

forward again this year. So I, I, I, I put a lot of stock

into what Sovereignty beat last year.

And I think that we'll see him hopefully take a step forward

this year and should create an exciting matchup at the end of

the year, I think. Sean Collins and Louie Rebeau

with you. Turfway Park, the focus of the

Oaks and Derby preps this weekend.

The Cincinnati Trophy Friday night gets its own evening.

175,000 on the line here they go a mile on the synthetic in this

one, Sean, And this is a probably for many people

listening the field, they're going to know the least amount

about going into the race. Many of these are purely

synthetic horses. Many of them where had their

last race at Turfway Park. In fact, every single one except

for Wanzee weather who's coming in from Churchill off the turf

for Darren Miller, Luan Machado have them out there is had their

last race at Turfway Park. So obviously, you know, trying a

bunch of specialists here. This is an interesting group,

Sean, because there are a couple in here that I think are pretty

interesting. Coco Connect.

I just interviewed John Ennis for the Kentucky racing

spotlight on Friday. Of course that won the valid 6

1/2. So they're shoot for their

Sprint races. Maxes out at 6 1/2 there at

Turfway. She went so well in that and was

able to close from just off the pace so well that he's going to

go ahead and try her over the two turns here and he's turning

around. She ran on the 7th of February.

So this is a quick turn around here.

But essentially said, look, she deserves the chance to show that

she could do this over two turns.

Again, obviously tried on the goldenrod wasn't there.

He described needing to make little changes on her, you know,

training and that kind of stuff because if you look back, she

broke her maintenance, the highest level of Keeneland on

the dirt, right? So it's not like she can't run

on dirt, right? It was just, hey, we didn't do

everything right, Leaning into that race.

And he essentially said mea culpa.

That was my bad. Let's go ahead and make some

changes here. He's going to try her back.

Very short rest. I'm fascinated by her, but

there's some other ones in here. If you remember last year,

California Burritos Connections Resist is in here, so this is a

fun one. I interviewed Tommy Drury a

couple weeks ago, and this is a daughter Mcclane's music point

of entry on the damn side. So we get plenty of distance

with all of that. But this is one that 6 1/2 on

debut. Goes ahead and wins one of those

$100,000 races at Turfway. Comes back against winners for

the first time at the highest level there.

Again. Runs for another 100,000 in.

Runs the same race twice, just at different distances.

Gets to go a mile again. She's gonna have to break from

the outside here, but guess what she did in her last race?

Broke from 9 out of 10. She's a fascinating one.

Only run twice. But boy, if she wins here, I

think you've got an Oaks horse on your hands.

And I've talked about this on the show.

I know it's easy to go, OK, it's a synthetic horse.

I'm not doing this. Number one, don't do that.

Two fills, Rich Strike and lots of the horses we talk.

About the The Jeff Ruby Rd. has been a good producer at the

Derby lately, right? And like even sees the Gray

coming out winning the Preakness.

Yeah, right. And the bad day, but.

We haven't always necessarily seen that translate to the Oaks

field, but we did have Bless the Broken come out of the Bourbon

and Oaks last year on 3rd and. That's exactly right.

And by the way, we are not just trying to pick winners, we're

trying to figure out who the field is going to be #1 yeah,

but also, hey, who's going to fill out that trifactor?

Because you make some money in a 14 horse field.

But no, just some interesting ones.

Dame Laura's in here. She was unbelievably impressive

for Godolphin, last out over a mile trying the synthetic for

the first time. I imagine she'll be the favorite

here. Edgar Morales gets the ride for

for Brendan Walsh. But lots of great options in

here, man. I think as far as preps go,

really, really tough to figure out.

There's even one in here out of the Karamori barn in Belle of

the Barn, Dylan Machado. So the other Machado, not long,

we'll be riding here. She won on debut in a restricted

race because she sold for less than 100,000 in her maiden race.

She runs for 40 essentially and just gets up at the end and

they're like, you know what, let's find out if you like

distance because she's the daughter of St.

Science Medalladora on the damn side.

I feel like this route, for whatever reason, is just the

most people try to figure out what their horses do I I think

the Bourbon and Oaks is set up to be really interesting this

year. You.

You might be the most excited person for the Cincinnati Trophy

I've ever met. I don't think I've ever heard

someone so excited for the Cincinnati Trophy before.

The Battaglio will be run on Saturday.

It's run for slightly at the slightly longer distance.

Mile on the 16th same amount of money 175 and here St.

Beast is trip back after. Yeah.

And after I talked to Ben Colebrook immediately after he

won the Leonidis a couple of weeks ago, it sounded like the

plan was we're going to just wait for the Ruby at this point.

So the fact that he's back in here, that points to me that

he's doing very well right now that they're that they're

sitting on a hot horse. So I'm, I'm expecting big things

from him to run well. We know he likes the course.

We know he likes the synthetic and he's breaking from the rail

here, but I think he should be able to get out of there, get

himself into a good position. So I I'm looking forward to what

he's what he's going to bring out here this weekend.

I think, I still don't know if he's necessarily going to be a

dirt horse, but I think he could be.

I mean, he was one of my top horses going into the juvenile

turf last year. And so I think that he could be

a legit threat and some of these grass races when we get to the

American turf, maybe later on down the road on some of those

New York ones, I think he's going to be a good player in the

three-year old turf division if he doesn't translate to the dirt

here. Last year we saw a couple of

horses come off of the turf to run really well in the Jeff Ruby

Stakes. Ace's Honor comes over from

Houston, a winner in the mile there in the Texas Turf Mile, a

very yielding course. That day was as yielding as it

gets. We'll make the trip up here.

Did win on day excuse me on the turf at Fairgrounds as well and

it made special I. Want to make the point about

that yielding course. Yeah, I mean, it was very, very

wet at Sam Houston that day. And if you go back and watch a

replay, it's going to look like he's really diminishing at the

end of that race. He almost gets caught by that

race. I talked to with Ethan West

right after the winner's circle. I think that was just, he was up

there setting the pace on the lead on the on a very wet turf

course. And I think it was just kind of

taking its toll on him at the very end of the race there.

I think he'll gain a lot out of that and we'll probably run big

here this week. And they didn't know at that

time when I talked to Ethan what they were going to do with him.

The fact that they they had sent him down to Louisiana for the

turf course and the fact that they'd have now sent him back up

to Kentucky to run him in this race makes me think that they

they they think very highly of what his potential could be this

weekend. So.

Tommy Morley is sending afield to Turfway.

He's also sending Ricardo Santana junior to ride him here.

He was aboard in the park. It's a list of sticks at

Aqueduct running a mile and a 16th on the turf course.

They're obviously trying the same distance on the synthetic

here. They see this as their chance to

get in. This is sort of a coma.

No reason he shouldn't like the dirt if he should get there.

And frankly, how many times have we seen turf runners run well

when races are either washed off on the under the dirt of

Churchill or just hey, just decide to run a Churchill,

right? And so Atfield's kind of the one

that I'm watching here. That's that candy.

We talked with Eric last week on the show, that candy ride line

kind of don't know what what the horses can do.

But you win the Central Park, I give you a shot for sure to win

in the Battaglia, I'll tell you that.

Yeah. First start of the year for him

too, coming out of that race so. Obviously going to try to use,

Yeah, he's Triple Crown nominee. Obviously going to try to use

this as their route to the Kentucky Derby himself.

But yeah, now just a bunch, I mean, Baytown dreamers in here.

He tried the Southwest? Yeah.

He's coming back quick off the South, yeah, He didn't do get to

do much running in that race. So the fact that he comes back

here, they must have must think he's still good to go for this.

So. Yeah, we saw him in The Pilgrim

for example at Aqueduct over the fall and so obviously tried

higher level stuff before. Interesting races, man.

back-to-back days there at Turfway Park.

Not suggesting it for next year, but it would be nice to have a

double between the two days. So it would be nice anyway.

Are you, are you like firing a tailgate from the Cincinnati

Trophy or like, how are you celebrating this weekend?

So we do a four hour podcast preview with the Horse racing

Happy hour for just the. Cincinnati trophy we have.

Every single jockey on every single owner 4.

Hours to get there. I don't know if 4 hours is going

to be enough for you to finish talking about that Reese.

I'd make a 420 joke, but I'm not going to do that on this show.

You understand? We're not doing that on this

show. 4 hours and 20 minutes is not a joke on this show, Sean.

OK, do. You understand?

Yes, I do understand. OK.

All right. Do you understand the atfield

reference? Probably not, no.

If you made a reference it went over my head so.

Last name Atfield. No, nothing.

Yeah, we're old. You're old if you're listening

right now and Shawn didn't know that reference and you did.

You're just old. It's OK.

We'll get into those for sure. When we come back this time of

the episode, we always remind you about the magazine.

Blood Horse Magazine is available of QR code at the

bottom of the screen if you're watching either YouTube or on

Spotify. But if you head to the, excuse

me, to the website at bloodhorse.com, check out the

magazine tab at the top of the homepage.

Get sign up for the magazine. Get that stallion registry.

Get those beautiful, beautiful photos on your coffee table

every month from our friends at Blood Horse Magazine and of

course, the Daily Go. Sign up right now.

Top of the homepage. Click on daily e-mail to your

inbox every single day. Cost you nothing.

Start your day with Blood Horse. We'd love to have you as that

part of that as well. We will have to recap these

races when we come back next week.

We will, yes. There will be others to preview.

There will be probably. There you are.

And do you think Kate Hunter's working on our plushie for us

now? I think so.

He's over the he's over the threshold at this point, right?

Is that not? Yeah, 2 Saudi cups and a he's

got a great one in Japan, doesn't he too?

On top of that, I mean, so I mean, yeah.

So at some point we we got the one we got the one from Joe

Moore a couple weeks ago. You saw that here on the show.

Kate's working on getting the. Big number on the Joe Moore.

Big number on the Joe Moore, by the way.

Yes. On the questions, yeah, big

number, but where that the the official, official one

supposedly is in the works. And so we've we've been told by

Kate Hunter that she'll she'll bring bring one down for us

probably it sounded like timing wise it might not be till

Breeders' Cup. We'll figure it.

Out I'm not worried about it. It's it's, we'll figure it out.

The official. He definitely gets the official

one now, I say. Valentine's Day, you didn't go

to the track. I think people need to

understand how big of a deal it is and if your lady's watching,

how important she is in your life.

That was the. That you decided not to go to

Turfway for some For some I. Tried to get to that because we

were in Cincinnati. During the day.

The idea was floated out there was shot down, and then she got

a. With prejudice or not, how much

prejudice was there? Well, she got.

She got a what? Was she driving?

No, I was driving, but oh boy, Sean.

But so we go past Turfway and I'm like, but Anna Marie's run.

But he knows me, knows I'm a huge Anna Marie fan and.

That's kind of why I was stunned that you were there.

So I was like Anna Marie's running and she still said no.

And then a couple hours later when we were at home, she got a

Anna Marie one in a kind of slightly annoyed tone.

She's like, oh, Diddy, Yep, we missed it.

But but no, that was we. Can you imagine being with one

of us? Can you imagine being married to

me or dating you? Like, can you just imagine?

That's a little glimpse of what the life is like.

And she had. The we won the race, we should

have gone like, Can you imagine being with us?

Like just let me just but. Yeah, so now, but this was kind

of my my makeup. I wasn't remember, I was not

supposed to be in Miami. The Southwest was not supposed

to be the weekend after that. So I I had a lot of days where I

was not here, where I was not originally planned to not be

here. So that this is kind of the a

little bit of the make up for that.

But don't think that I didn't figure out a way where I flown

to turf paradise off the bucket list on Saturday, drive to

Sunland Park for the Sunland Derby on Sunday and then flown

back from El Paso on Monday. Don't think I didn't map that

out and have that in my mind for next year.

So. Hey Sean, I'm Louis, how many

hours do I spend on my Cincinnati Trophy preview?

Find out next week. The Blood Horse is dedicated to

the improvement of thoroughbred breeding and racing for over 100

years. Don't forget to like, subscribe

and save Blood Horse Monday on all your platforms.

For the latest news, analysis and insights, visit us at

bloodhorse.com. Thanks for listening and we'll

see you next week.