California Racing Update | John Cherwa, L.A. Times

All right, welcome in Friday the 20th of December 2024 edition of

the Horse Racing Happy Hour. Louie, bro, John Sherva hanging

out with you. He's from the Los Angeles Times.

I'm here on my sofa in Louisville, KY Thanks for

hanging out with us. Special edition of the show, but

a little hard to ignore John's article in the Times the other

day about the state of Northern California racing.

And, and John, I got to be very, very transparent about this.

This is extraordinarily self-serving in that Northern

California is the number 2 market for this show.

So we have a ton of listeners and Subs and people in Cripe,

Sacramento, Bay Area, lots of different spots that listen to

this show, take it in every week.

And I see headlines like this and it is, frankly, it's

heartbreaking because we hear from so many of those folks.

They're so good at the show. How are you and when did you get

wind that this might be happening?

I actually was in Tucson last week at the Global Support

Symposium, and that's when I heard about the the fact that

they didn't have the votes, that the fair group did not have the

votes. And then on then they were going

to meet again on Monday, which was this past Monday.

And I wrote a story that morning because I basically had enough

that said that it wasn't going to pass because I, I had some

tips for some people that, that it was done.

And the vote, of course, I think was six O with one abstention.

And I forgot why the abstention, but they just didn't have enough

money. They didn't have enough money to

continue. And that, you know, that was

kind of evident from the start. They didn't really have a

chance. And the reason is part of the,

the conditions to get the support for the very, you know,

short meeting was the TOC. The thoroughbred owners of

California came up with these criterion that they needed to

meet. Well, guess what?

Santa Anita would have had trouble meeting some of those

criterions because, you know, field size and and whatever.

And so it was a stack deck. It was a stack deck from the

beginning. The, you know, Santa Stronic

group, Santa Anita started it when they closed down Golden

Gates. TOC was definitely complicit in

it. And I say that because when I I

wrote that, that the stronic group and the TOC hatched a plan

to, you know, close Northern California racing.

I got a copy of that one sentence from a ATOA senior TOC

official and I just responded back with one word.

Yep. You know, it's it's it's a

matter of if a, if a bank is being robbed, the, the person in

the in the, in the bank with the gun gets charged the same as the

guy who's writing the doing the getaway car.

OK, and that and that's that's it.

So it it was, it was definitely stronic group and TOC.

And the reason for this is they feel they need that extra

simulcast money to, to help save the South.

Well, it'll help the South, but it won't save them.

Extra simulcast money at the end of the day, is this purely just,

it's just a financial move, right?

I mean $1,000,000 lost in a single meeting up north as as

far as you know handle taking in what the take out was and all

those things and what they handed out in purses.

Is this purely just a thing 'cause I mean, if we, if we read

and just believed what was put out there about an extra day of

racing on Thursdays or you know, whatever it might be carting,

you know, races for Northern California horses.

Is this purely just a money thing?

Well, in the end, everything's just a money thing.

Yeah, fair enough. But and, and I, you know, just

to to explain to your to your listeners the, the simulcast is

not simulcast out of, you know, Santa Anita races.

But all the simulcast money that's taken in in Northern

California. There's the knot wink and the

Scott wink. You mean they even have

separate, you know, ADW companies.

And what this would do was all the money that's spent in

Northern California, be it through, you know, through the

through AD WS and simulcast facilities and stuff like that,

the cut that would normally go to Northern California will now

go to Southern California. So that's it's kind of what that

means. How much money is that, by the

way? What are we talking about?

We're, we're talking significant money.

I don't have the exact figure somebody does, but during the

course of six months it, it, you know, it could be as much as,

you know, 3 to 5 million or whatever.

And that would pay for the overpayment, which is the yeah,

fair enough, Yep. Which which they're doing.

So you know, they did. The truth is they didn't have a

chance. I'm glad they realized it and

and didn't go more into debt to to help facilitate that.

Now the real question is will the fair survive?

Does the fair survive with horses that would run in these,

in these other, these other other meets, you know, the, the,

the GSR, the Golden State Racing, which also GSR also

stands for gunshot residue, but in this case it's Golden State

Racing. Hopefully just the Golden State

racing, you know, up here, you know, north of us in in states

like India and Ohio, the the state fairs are really about

harness horses and they kind of drop in, you know, for a week,

week and a half, two weeks at a time, something like that.

Is there a chance that that could be what happens in the

Northern circuit in in that they could just come up with a race?

But frankly, just how thoroughbred racing works, John,

it's not like, you know, a Trotter that just goes every two

weeks. You know, no matter what what in

A7 $8000 kind of race. I mean, this is a different

animal and, and different animal, but you know, a

different matter of running horse races.

I mean, just stabling and, and and travel and, and bringing

horses in. I I'm terrified for the state,

for the the fairs in California. I would be too.

And here's and and I, I let me just dispense with, you know,

credit to the Sonic group. I mean, they they did help kill

Northern California racing. But they have put in forth put

forth a plan where you can train at Pleasanton and Santa Anita

will pay for the cost of state of, of bringing your horses down

and also pay for the expenses of the groom and the trainer.

So that's good. But again, do you want to put

your horse through the I don't know.

I'm just going to say 8 hour van ride because you certainly don't

fly horses that short a distance, especially at this

time of year when FedEx is cut off all horse transport

transport. So, so, so there is that and,

but you know, they're, they're trying, they're, they're trying

to do a makeup and I give them credit for that.

And as you know, I don't give the strong group credit for a

lot of things, but I, I, I, I give them credit for, for

putting that out there. Now, is there a big demand or

cry for Thursday racing at Santa Anita with horses that are of

the yeah, right, 5000 claiming level?

You know, it's essentially a low Sal meet and, and I watched all

the low Sal races and it was tough to find a race with more

than five horses. And you know that that's what

we're looking for. But the the major impact on this

move is not so much the racing, but the breeding because

California full crops are down and California farms are

starting to close up a lot of them.

And what they do is they supply horses that run in a lot of cow

bred races. Golden, Golden Gate, I suppose

the Golden State Golden Gate ran about half their races as cow as

cow bred races. So what's the point of breeding

a cow bred if you don't have any place to run them?

Unless of course they can get some kind of consortium with

let's say Oregon or Washington or Arizona where they would have

a West Coast, you know, rather than Cal breds West Coast bred

horses kind of situation and can card races elsewhere.

Arizona. I mean the the the hottest OK,

here's here's the question for you.

The hottest state or paramutuals in the country right now is, and

it's not Kentucky. Hottest state for para mutuals?

Oh I like that question. Texas.

Nope, Wyoming. Yeah, of course.

The Kentucky Dons folks know what they're doing for sure.

Yes. Yeah, Wyoming has I think more

HHR machines. Certainly anything per capita

Wyoming leads, but they have that is I talked to a lot of HHR

people when I was in Tucson and they were saying, you know, the

bullish market is is in Wyoming. You know, that's just where they

can do. And you can kind of parallel

that to 20 years ago when Oakland Park was struggling and

they put in a thing that wasn't called HHR, it was called

instant racing. And it was the same thing and

SHHR essentially. Now if you want to have fun, as

I did, go up to HHR people and just say that's a slot machine.

Right. That's a slot machine and they.

Feel like a fight today? Let's just call it a slot

machine. Yeah, right.

And it is however they can, they can make cases.

They they explained to me why it wasn't.

And you know, there's no random number generator.

It is based on, you know, on past performance.

It is paramutual based. And have you, have you played

one or seen one? I've definitely seen them.

I've I'm not a, I'm not a machine wagerer.

I prefer my wagers to be on things that run.

OK, well, how much of the? OK, so you know that the amount

of race that you actually see is somewhere between 1 and 2

seconds, Yeah. Right.

Yeah. At the at the top of the

machine, excuse me, at the top of the machine, they'll give you

the last one to two seconds and then the you can, there is an

option that nobody takes advantage of.

I think I was told like 2% of the people might take advantage

of it where they can actually see the full race, but that is

available so. And can you explain to our

listeners again, why, why, for example, Santa Anita can't just

have a, you know, an HHR parlor at their, at their site?

Well, because. Because by the way, do you think

even like one parlor would change the trajectory of a place

like Santa Anita? Because I kind of do.

I don't think it would take a lot, frankly.

OK, well let's the before I answer that, have you looked at

the comparable handles of HHR and horse racing?

Oh. HHR is like 70 times or

something, yeah. It, it, it, it crushes it, it's,

it's not even close. It's not even close.

And the reason that they can't do that in California is because

all non paramutual wagering in the state is controlled by the

tribal nations. But why can you not do HHR,

which is paramutual in just a parlor itself?

Can you explain to people why that's not allowed?

Well, because the, the tribal lobby would say it is just

regular gambling and then it would have to, you know, it'd be

litigated for three years. They're a very, very strong

lobby and, and basically when they've gone up against card

rooms, they win every time. And it's, it's just, yes, you

can make the case that it is para mutual wagering against who

knows where the, the rest of that pool comes from, but

that's, that's, that's what it is.

And so now that's not to say I, I will not be surprised if Santa

Anita decides to put in X number of HHR machines and just

litigate it because, you know, they're, they're running out of

options. They're running out of options.

And the purses are, are dreadful compared to.

And actually I was, I was going to talk to Kenny Mcpeak over the

over the weekend. At least I hope to, to do a

Mystic Dan story for opening day, who's running in the Malibu

And I. And one of the questions I'll

ask Kenny is why would you ship this horse across the country to

run in a $300,000 race? I mean, that's not a lot of

money. It's a Grade 1.

And you know, the, the, the rules are that for a grade one,

the race has to be 300, grade 2200, grade three, 100.

And that's the only reason it's 300.

Otherwise it might be 200. I mean, who who knows?

But but I need to ask Kenny, you know why?

Why this was a smart move. Well, I can.

I can anticipate some of his answers.

Is is. Well, I don't have this

verified. I'm sure Santa Anita paid for

the shipping. No question I.

Agree, but but poor old Mystic Dan had to you know, Van two

days to Zia Park and then spend overnight and then finish up his

trip to Santa Anita. And OK, maybe he's going for an

Eclipse Award if he wins the the Grade 1 Malibu, but I, I don't

know if that's going to beat beat fierceness.

Sierra Leone, whatever. Yeah, right.

Yeah. Yeah, that that's a tough one.

OK, who, who do you have? This is AI was in a very very

spirited debate on another podcast as to who's trainer of

the year. Oh man, that's a great question.

I'm not sure that I have a good answer for that.

I haven't, I have not dived into my eclipse voting as deeply as I

possibly I probably should have at this point.

I usually, by the way, I, I essentially tag out on those

things. I let other people do the work

for the for the Eclipse awards. I do those shows that just let

everyone else tell me what they're voting for.

It got to go with that. Oh my gosh, trainer of this

year. I mean, you know, I I have a

contrarian brain, John, so I'll probably try to vote against

Mcpeak just because I was at all the races he won this year.

And so even though I do, I do think the Oaks doing the Oaks

Derby Clark triple for the first time since the 1890s is pretty

impressive. I mean, it's it's a different

that's just a different thing. But I mean, same time.

I mean, like, I don't know, I like the smaller stories too.

I think what Danny Gargan did this year was really cool with

Dornick and and different things and society man coming out of

the Derby and that kind of stuff.

But I mean, I is it not Mcpeek? I mean.

For his whole. Body work.

I think it's either Chad Brown or Mcpeek.

I voted for Brown last year. And I think there is still some

residual dislike of Brown based on his actions of of last year,

which founded before a judge. And everybody loves Kenny.

You know, he he won the, you know, won the Oaks Derby.

I mean, that alone is something he has not had a bad year.

Thorpeeta Anna hopefully is horse of the year.

We'll see. She's.

Would that be your vote? That would be my vote the the

three-year old Philly is Thorpeeta Anna.

I don't see Mystic Dan, even if he wins the Malibu winning 3

year old male, I think that's probably fierceness.

But you know, I could see Kenny, I could see Kenny getting that

Everybody loves him. You know, when I saw him, he he

was in Tucson and I said Kenny, I see you're getting a ward.

And he says, yeah, I think it's just for calling people back.

No, I don't. That's not a bad answer from

him. And by the way, just the, you

know, we were out there for Clark Day and he, he brings

torpedo Anna out just to walk around and, and this kind of

stuff and makes her available at the fairgrounds.

And I just, I think what he did with her, her spectacular year,

but the fact that he made her available at Saratoga and at

Churchill and different things for pictures and different, I

think that goes a long way. I think, I think what he just

said is right. I think that just being

available at all at horse racing gets you a lot of a lot of a lot

of goodwill, frankly. Yeah, it does.

And he's that's Griff. Griff, he's saying hello.

OK. Yes, he is America's most

spoiled dog. That's right.

Yes, he is. But you know, I could, I could

vote for him. I mean, I, I definitely, I

definitely could. And but we'll see, you know, and

it's, it's an east. If he was a West Coast trainer,

I would say no chance because, you know, the eclipses are are

so dominated by East Coast voters and and it takes

something really special for him, a West Coast, although I'll

look, of course, he doesn't ride in the West all that time

anymore. But you know, we're going to see

a new eclipse jockey winner for the I think for the first time,

breaking the the stranglehold of the Ortiz brothers will be

Flavian Pratt. I think so.

You know, we'll, we'll just, these are all interesting

questions with just days remaining in the year and we'll

find out what people think. I, I, I got to think torpedo

Anna. You got to think torpedo,

torpedo Anna twice fierceness once.

I, I don't know older horse. Who do you like for older horse?

OK, so I love Johannes. Speaking of West Coast, I

actually think he's probably the best turf turf horse in North

America. And if he can get it done coming

up here, he's in the San Gabriel right at the Grade 2.

If he, if he sweeps that one after a second place finish in

the Breeders Cup and a bunch of other first place finishes, I'll

be very, very pleased and very easy to vote for him for for

older horse of the year. Yeah, he is in in the San

Gabriel. I think he's easily the most

consistent runner we've had at the older horses this year.

And I'd like to see him one only because I really like Timmy

acting. Yeah, fair enough.

Yeah. You know you done.

A great job with the horse, yeah.

I wonder like we none of us had really heard of Yaktine, and

still he would take over the Derby horses for Baffert.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

And it's so unfair to him, isn't it?

It is unfair, but it's like he's now a name and A and a face that

you recognize and and he is he is just, you know, genuinely one

of one of the nicest guys And I I'd like to see that for him,

especially after what happened to him, not this year, but last

year with practical move, you know, dying just before the

Breeders cup of of, of sudden death.

So, you know, we'll see that, you know, and you can also make

a case, not as strong a case, but you know, national treasure,

right. You want a couple of big.

Races, I think actually national treasure.

I'll end up winning it, I'll be honest.

I think, yeah. I think national Treasure wins

it. I just I and this I've run into

this a lot a couple years ago I voted for modern games for

three-year old of the year, but he's a turf, a turf horse and we

just don't vote for turf horses. And so Johannes probably ain't

going to win, but he'll be my vote for sure.

But I do think National Treasure had a really underratedly

Goodyear. And then, of course, now that

Sierra Leone actually won the Classic, the most overrated

horse on dirt, City of Hope. City of Hope, there he is, that

poor guy. That that you know, like little.

Exposure. Yeah, it.

It's just like, how did this horse lose?

Well, he did. And and again, it's it's the,

you know, it's the turf, turf dirt thing.

But yeah, and I say that jokingly.

I I don't think he would even have a shot for a turf eclipse

because all his races were in Europe, right?

That's right. Except for the the one dirt race

at at Delmar. I was going to ask you, you

know, we're getting Sierra Leone fierceness, Mystic Dan Thorpedo,

Anna back next year. Do you think that's a blip or do

you think it's more of a trend that will get more horses like

that running again as four and five year olds?

And obviously, you know, Sierra Leone son of Gun Runner, there's

a chance that actually his best running will happen next year.

I'm really hopeful that it will. And are we just going to see

this, frankly, because there's so much money in the Arabian

Peninsula? Well, that's certainly has a lot

to do with it. I mean the the Arabian races

pretty much killed the San Anita Handicap because just of timing.

Yeah, the big cap is just not yeah.

Right, Big cap is, is nothing, well, not nothing, but it's,

it's, you know, a shade of its former self.

And the Pegasus, you know, the Pegasus is also in that because

of the, you know, $20 million Saudi Cup.

The the trick is that, you know, do you want to put your horse

through that? Do you want to send them over?

And your memory is better than mine, but when's the last time a

horse came back from there and just ran a fantastic race first

back after? After I think it's this year and

it was Bookham Dano, but he's really an exception and he's not

a two turn horse. He's a sprinter.

So I think you're asking for a longer horse.

I it's it's been a minute. It's actually, yeah, you're very

right. Might be gun runner, frankly.

Yeah, that that, that goes back, goes back a while.

OK, another trivia question for you.

The last active Kentucky Derby winner to run in at Santa Anita,

actually in the Malibu on opening day.

Spectacular bid No that it wasn't on opening day back then

A. Little more current, but not

that current. OK, I don't.

Oh, no, California Chrome. What am I doing?

California Chrome. It's got to.

Be you got it. That's it.

OK, good. OK, there we go.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I.

Went way too far back, You know, I saw that.

Do you know, Spectacular Bid was ran on the first day that that

Priveman covered a race in Southern California.

He was 20 years old. And can you just downhill from

that? You see Spectacular bid then

everybody's worse than that, right?

Like, unbelievable. Yeah.

I mean, it's, you know, you see these great horses through the

years, whether it be American Pharaoh or Justify or Flightline

or whatever. And and you think, will you ever

see another one like it? Well, yeah, I hope so.

I hope so. I mean, I doubt I will see as

dominant a performance in my, you know, in my remaining two

years. Then Flightline Pacific Classic.

Yeah. And I always and I you go back

to, to the great quote from, from Baffert, who had the 2nd

place horse Country Grammar, who who said my horse thought he won

because he couldn't see anybody in front of him.

It's such an amazing story. Was it 19 length?

Something like that? Yeah.

I mean at some point, like the the horses so far ahead, you

could just assume it's an outrider or something, right?

It's just it's. The one that was in the race for

sure. Oh, that's pretty wild to think

about. But yeah, so.

All right, so let's wrap this up, man.

What do you do? Do you think they run the fairs

this summer? Let's start with that.

And. OK, you do.

And what would you do if let's put you in, in, you know, the

old TSG and you have these horses, you have this program,

Are you trying to boost field size or are you trying to run on

Thursday? Well.

I know the very easy answer for me.

Neither one is it is is a is a great is a great answer.

And I think you you give the Thursdays a shot.

But again, it it might be like doomed before it even starts

because what number of I mean, you're not going to be able to

ship a full card load load of horses to Southern.

California, you're exactly right.

Every week. Every week, yeah.

I mean, it's just not going to happen.

And even then the cost of that based upon what it costs to keep

the track open. Now we, we talk a lot about all

the money Santa Anita is losing and I, you know, they, they come

up with, you know what they're, they're overpayment I think was

$6 million last year. And to do the, I mean, you're

looking at least 10 million or whatever.

But the thing that we fail to remember is they have businesses

that prop up Santa Anita. They have express bet, they have

first bet, they have Amtot, they have Monarch, they have elite,

they have all these ancillary businesses whose sole job is

protected by the product that that is being done at Santa

Anita. So so that helps helps pay for

it. And you know, you, you talk

about, you know, sports gambling.

Well, what's the difference between horse racing and sports

gambling? Besides, one is para mutual and

one is essentially fixed odds is that if you're betting sports,

if you're a a vendor and and you're producing sports betting,

you do not have to pay for the product, right?

And in horse racing, they've got to come up with the facility,

the horses, the purses, everything.

So in many ways, you know, horse racing is just a bad, it's a bad

economic model. And you know, maybe they, you

know, maybe HHR can change that or something else, but you know.

They'll ask a different question then.

Yeah, I'll ask a different question then.

Would you just put the HHR machines in and and deal with

the litigation? I would have a conversation with

the attorney general of California, Rob Barton, and I

would ask him, if I put this in, are you going to cease and

desist me? Right.

And if he says yes, I am, then I wouldn't put him in.

If he says no, I won't, Then you have to figure out the, the you

know what, what's the calculation you're looking for?

OK, let's just say on the average, I think, I think what

is the take out on HHR in Kentucky?

Is it 9 or is it 8? Eight or nine, Yeah. 88 or nine.

And when you look at the, let's say California is 10 just

because it's, it's, it's an even number, round Number.

OK, you got, you got one point going to the Breeders.

You've got two or three points going to purses.

OK, that leaves you 6. How many of them are going to be

left for the track and how many are going to be left for the

tribes? Well, I frankly think the tribes

are going to get more than the track.

Let's say that the tribes get get, you know, three or two or

three or four and whatever's left will go to the track.

So you have to you have to crunch all those numbers.

But if if the AG is not going to shut me down, you know it, it

might be worth their time to do that.

It it has been contemplated before by others and but it

never happened and. Why would they have to give the

money to another authority outside of Santa Anita?

Can you can you explain that part?

Why would the tribal authority get part of that money?

Because they basically own gambling and, you know, there is

the difference between a game of chance and a game of skill.

And they're saying that HHR is a game of skill, which gives them

some cover to keep it out of, of, of of the tribal, you know,

the purview of the tribes, but it's, it's not clear cut.

And the and the again, the lobby in California and the tribes is

is unbelievably, I don't. Want to call it a bribe?

But is that essentially a bribe then?

I mean, is that why you would share that money?

Oh, I think no matter what happens they have to share the

money. Wow.

OK. No they won't.

It will not be 10% that goes to to California.

No, that I, I just do not see a, see a situation where the tribes

do not get a certain percentage of that take out should, should

they reach a deal. And again, you know, they would

be put in without a deal. And you know, and you've got to

remember 1st and Churchill both own HHR companies.

Yeah, was it Paramax is the one that First owns and Exacta is

that the one that Churchill owns?

So, and I saw demonstrations of, of both of of their machines and

the experience is totally slot machines, which is why if you

know that they, they built it so that they didn't have to show

full horse races just just a second because, you know, slot

machines are churn just, you know, hit the button.

No, that's right. Yeah, the turn is what matters

for sure. Well, John, what's your, your,

your travel plans? When do you when do you get out

there from Malibu Day? Well, I'm actually, I didn't do

it last year and I'm right now on the fence is to when I'm but

I would get out there Christmas night.

I'm waiting for the last second. The one the one thing about

Christmas in LA is you need to book your car early.

And I booked that about three months ago and hotels too, but

we're trying to get a car out of LAX on Christmas night is is

next to impossible. Interesting.

OK. But you know, if, if I go and

again, I'm a little bit on the fence right now, I'm going to

wait to see everything settled. The thing is, if you go through

the overnights. Oh, I thought it looked great.

It the overnights that you always send me, by the way,

which I appreciate very much and I should probably mention that

on this show, but you got it right in front of me.

But how many? How many shippers are you

seeing? You know, good.

Point I I didn't, no, this time of year is really tough.

And like you said, with FedEx not being available, I imagine

it's even tougher. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know the exact date, but I think it's like after December

10th, they they don't ship horses.

And the thing that that baffles me is there's a lot of money in

horse racing. There's a lot of rich people in

horse racing. Why don't they just buy a damn

plane and and run a not-for-profit horse shipping

business? I I just don't understand that.

And I talked to Tom Ryan about it and he said, yeah, something

we thought about. And I've talked to another like

big owner. Yeah, we've talked about it and

thought about it, but nobody seems to want to do it.

And you know, I mean, Tech Sutton was just how you moved

your horses. But frankly, Tech Sutton is

probably making as much, if not more money just booking the the

flights than they did when they were actually flying the planes

because they, I don't think they own their own plane.

They were renting it. All right, well, he's John

Sherveys with the LA Times, latimes.com/sports, of course,

for everything out there. Do you have a Do you have a pic

in the Malibu you? Know, I think if you're not

going to bet Mystic Dan, you might bet Stronghold, yeah.

It's cool to see him back on the card.

I wonder if they'll find out that he's A7 for a long mile

kind of horse. I I really do.

Yeah, but. Indiana Derby was disappointing.

I'm I'm glad to see him back on the card.

Yeah, I'm and you know, let's look at the the race here.

We've got 3 Baffords. Or is it 2?

Yeah, 33 Baffords. Imagination.

Pilot commander in Winterfell? Yep.

Right and Doug has a horse that you know you can always and and

stronghold by D'amato, but again, you're not seeing the big

shippers coming in here for this.

You know, this last day is or the 26th is pretty much a day

that is a is a last chance to win your eclipse award.

You know, if you can come up with that last Grade One win and

I think is Flavian. He has not beaten Bailey yet on

stakes wins. Right.

They are tied at this time. Just going to say, if you do get

out there, you'll probably see Flavian because I think he's got

six straight graded stakes mounts on just on Thursday.

Yeah. Yeah, and he basically came out

for these the LaSalle Futurity, yes, right.

And the only I mean, yeah, back when he lived here he he would

run in the low self futurity, but he came out on I think

Baffert's best 2 year old but ended up being upset by a

McCarthy horse named journalism. John Sherman's favorite horse

ever. How about that?

I should I should have bet him, but you should look.

At him. I agree just as a just as a

hunch and but I didn't. So there you have it.

You know, you know, I think I actually I'd be remiss not to

ask you that. You know, the rename the stakes,

the the Lafitte Pinchai Junior stakes, the grade 2 out there.

Almost certainly a guy that did you get to cover him or is he

right before your time? No, I know him.

And as a matter of fact, one of my favorite all time dinners is

I went to dinner with Lafitte, Eddie D Blavian and Drayton Van

Dyke. And it, it was for a story that

I was doing about the old and, and the new, you know, jockeys

then and jockeys now. And I, I don't, I don't think I

said more than than, you know, 2 words and just let them talk

about it. And I did it before a Breeders'

Cup few quite a few years ago. And but you know, it, it's, it's

fun to be with them that they, they just, you know, him and

Eddie D just love to sit and talk and tell tales and, and,

you know, Flavia and Drayden were actually sort of quiet.

But, you know, those were the days of of hot boxes and all the

rest of those things that that jockeys today keep themselves in

shape. You know, they they don't, you

know, gorge themselves exactly. And you know, they are they are

very much much athletes and and that's just what we'll have to

they anyway. So, so the, the bottom line is,

yeah, I, I know Lafitte and I know his son who I guess works

for or. Fox now.

Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

And, you know, they're, they're both really, really nice guys.

I that's awesome. Isn't it funny that in this job,

John, and, and, you know, you're on the writing side, I'm on the

talking side. But the best shows or the best

articles often come from when we talk the least.

I got to do the the Colonel's anniversary episode with ISIL a

couple years ago, and it was him, Hubie Brown, artist Gilmore

and Louis Dampier. And I talked for maybe 8

seconds, two hours. And it's some of the two best

two hours of my life. It was great.

Yeah. No.

And, and, and you know, with, with when you interview

somebody, if you're having to do a lot of talking, it's not going

well. No, that's right it.

It, it's, it's just not because, you know, sometimes you get some

people that you just got to drag it out of and and what was that

I listened to last week, Flatter interviewed Owen Hardy and I and

I know Owen and he and he is, he's a terrific guy.

And, and you know, when he's not on the air or whatever, he, he,

he, you know, he talks a lot. But when he's on, when he's, you

know, behind a microphone tends to be a little more cautious and

not, and not talk as much. And I, I was feeling for, for

flatter who was trying to, you know, dig some stuff out of him.

And and and Owen, by the way, he's got two good 2.

Year old wins. You know, and I would love to

and and he's got, of course, Chic MO on his side so that that

that helps, but it does. Yeah, All right, let's let's

forecast for it and I'll let you go and chase your dog.

How many starters in the starting gate?

Kentucky Derby for Bob Baffert. I'm going 2.

I'll go, I'll go 3 and I'm I, I was going to say before you said

two, I was going to say 4. It could be 4, yeah.

I mean, OK, I mean, let's let's think about this.

Does does Brad, does Brad have any good Colts?

Not really well. Todd out on Saturday.

He's got 1 running. OK.

I have his I, Todd has not had a good two year old male campaign

in the fall. Brad's going to have thirty

horses in the Oaks. I mean that that's a thing.

But yeah, no, I, I simply no, Yeah.

Right. Yeah, but but Todd, Todd's,

Yeah, you know, Todd's having a little fallow time Now that

doesn't mean that you're not going to have like a justified

Yeah, come up in February some. January's, yeah, some January

maiden winter or something. Yeah, right.

But, but right now I don't see a lot out there.

But I'll, I'll say, I'll say 3. And I frankly think that he's

going to win the Kentucky Derby. And I can't tell you with who,

but I, I am not going to be the tiniest bit surprised if he wins

the Derby. It's just sort of it's, you

know, if if you believe in karma and and cosmic everything,

doesn't he have to win it his first time back after the what

turns out to be essentially a three or four year suspension?

Yeah, probably. Yeah.

I mean, that's that's. Actually, yeah.

You know, if you if you are a journalist, do you, do you root

for people? Do you root for forces?

Do you root for whatever? No, you root for the story.

Story. That's right, yes.

And the story is Bob Baffert triumphantly returning and

winning his seventh or seven with an asterisk because it

could have been 8. And but you know, we got a long

way to go. And, and when you ask Bob about

it, he just says, ah, you can't tell anything until February.

And, and he's right. And, and let's also remember

too, that he, he if, let's say he has a horse that, that, you

know, dumps a bunch of, you know, wins a bunch of Derby prep

points, but isn't running that well in the, in the last prep or

next to last. He probably won't run them

right. So, you know, and he'll and

he'll ship some to Oak Lawn and he'll run some at Santa Anita.

And so the mere fact of of that, although he has run in the wood

before and I think is he, he's is he run?

When was the last time he ran the bluegrass?

I don't remember that. Yeah, the Bluegrass a minute.

The wood more recently. You're right.

Yeah. Especially Wood Day.

He likes some of the races on that card.

You know, you, you were the one to turn me on to this.

He doesn't like to ship just one horse, so that wood cart affords

him the ability to run two or three.

Yeah. Yeah.

So we'll see. Yeah, no, it should be a lot of

fun. His name's John Sherva.

J Sherva on the socials. And of course,

latimes.com/sports for all of the things.

Well, if you decide to go to California, safe travels.

If not, Merry Christmas. Anyway, all the things.

Hello to your spouse and your dog and we'll talk next.

Time bud and same to you, you and your family as and what?

What's the big Christmas plans for you?

You know, we're a kind of a subdued family for Christmas

because my wife and I both work right before and right after

Christmas as my kids get home from school.

And so, no, nothing, I'm just going to wake up on Christmas

morning. Dad makes waffles, we open

presents. OK, so the kids in Kentucky are

in school today, huh? They just finished.

It's their last day for before Christmas break.

Yeah, what's today? OK, in in Florida, it's their

last day was yesterday, Thursday and then today.

Today is a Friday before Yeah in quotes, a teacher work day.

There it is. But anyway, that's it.

I'm sure they watched movies and did handouts.

So it's not, you know, teacher work day, quote UN quote, if you

will. Yeah.

So. We've all been there.

Back in the day they would have rolled the TV in on the the old

stand. These days, of course, they just

got the smart boards. But no.

Well. Yeah, no, actually.

All right, John, there are no, there are no kids.

Just the teachers have to go in and pretend to work for the day.

Yeah, Hey, man. Hey, it's a good, it's a good

grift if you can get the one day.

There you go. All right, John.

Well, Merry Christmas man. Merry Christmas.

We'll catch up soon, enjoy the Malibu and all that, and we'll

talk to you soon. OK.

Take care. Thanks, John.

John, Sherva, LA Times, latimes.com/sports for

everything there. We'll be back next week.

I'll be really honest, I have no idea what we're doing next week

for this show, but we will figure it out as we get further

down the Derby trail and all of the things happening there.

Lou, your bow with you at Horse Happy Hour for all our

happenings on socials. Merry Christmas, everybody.

We'll talk to you next week.