Charles Town Classic ’25 | Paul Espinosa

Yes, silly music personally show the horror racing happy hour.

Lugermo hanging out with you. I'm in the studios today of ESPN

Louisville. You've got 11:50 here.

Robo would go if you have a little hoops talk, little

football talk. And of course, as we get into

this time of year with Traverse Talk tomorrow 10/20/11, Anthony

de Santis from Naira to do show. Happy to have our guy Paul

Espinosa better call Paul on the socials joining us here on the

program today. Paul, your annual visit with me.

I'm sure you regret very much approaching me at Churchill

Downs that one day that we met. I'm just honestly, I'm just

happy that you didn't play me in with like the Deliverance music.

I thought that that was a possibility, something from like

wrong turn but but yeah man, I appreciate you having me on.

Yeah, that is West Virginia stuff.

In case you're wondering. We're going to Chuck Town for

Friday night Charlestown races. Paul's been calling the races

there. How long now?

How long have you been at that Charlestown this.

Is my 10th year so wow it's awesome.

Getting old right here, man. Getting old so.

Oh, I know how that goes the, you know, but you and I talked

before Paul, and if people don't know you and, and maybe they,

oh, this is the voice behind the races at night that I'm betting

in West Virginia, that kind of stuff.

You're, you're a West Virginia guy.

You went to West Virginia. You, you know, all the stuff

getting the job at Charlestown. I don't want to call it the

dream job, but it's it's on the list for sure.

Did you imagine you'd get to a decade, though?

I mean, this is pretty cool. Yeah, it's definitely, it was

never really, like I said, it wasn't the dream from like a

young age. I I obviously started coming to

the track from a very young age. My dad, you know, worked in

publicity and marketing and actually I had there's a picture

floating around somewhere at my parents' house, a little badge

with me as a hot Walker as a newborn.

So again, I, I was again pretty much born into the sport, you

know, did the WVU thing like you talked about was doing broadcast

news. Eventually it was, you know,

kind of thought, you know, the TV, you know, sports reporting

type of thing. And then, you know, again, lo

and behold, the the America's Next race caller contest came up

at Del Mar. And then the after that, the job

at Charlestown opened up and just kind of one thing led to

another. And here we are a decade later.

So yeah, it's definitely hard to believe, but yeah, it's it's

it's great. Not only is it home, but it's

year round racing, so I don't have to bounce around anywhere.

And you know, we we get are kind of our time of the spotlight

this weekend, breeders classics weekend and then the rest of the

time it's pretty low pressure. But yeah, this this weekend

always kind of has that like Olympic feel where it's like if

you screw up, you got to wait a whole year to try to make it

better. So I'm going to try not to not

to get to that point in the first place.

I was talking with Jason Beam a couple of weeks ago ahead of the

Arlington Million and you know, I asked him, you know, hey, the

grade one thing when you call the Grade 1, is it really the

he's like, yes, it's different. You really, you know, in your

job, you know, the Charlestown Classic, that's a grade 2, it's

the highest level race you guys are going to run at your track

that year. You know, the Oaks is on that

level, that kind of thing. And so do you feel that pressure

tomorrow night? Will you feel that pressure for

the for the classic? Absolutely.

Yeah, it's it's one of those things too, where it's like for

me, I feel like so much of the pressure is you hope that it's a

race that people are striving to to win.

Obviously, you know, they they're showing up, you know,

not to not just for kicks and giggles, but then you don't want

to, you know, give them that experience where it's like, oh

man, I get to watch my horseback, but man, I got to

press mute to listen to the call.

This guy sucks. So yeah, I definitely want to

try to just not get in the way. I'm not, you know, I want the

horses. That's obviously the, you know,

the, the action to tell the story.

I just want to be along for the ride and not get in the way and

try the best I can to, you know, kind of be along for the ride

there. And yeah, just hopefully nothing

that makes them have to hit the mute button when they're

watching the replay of their horse winning.

Who's the person who talked you into doing America's next race

caller? Who was that person?

Honestly, the person was me. Just yeah, I was.

So I did three years out of school at ATV station in

Hagerstown, MD, which is about 50 minutes from here, and then

tried a like a little 2 year stint in Lexington, KY, Oddly

enough, going to horse country where I was the a buyer's agent

for my aunt who was, she's a very successful real estate

agent, one of the top producing agents in, in Kentucky,

certainly in central Kentucky. And you know, I thought I'd give

it a try. And very soon into it was like,

you know, realize like, yeah, sales is just not for me.

Just obviously just a very dumb person that just like, you know,

can just good at talking into the microphone.

Like that's literally like my that's my wheelhouse.

And so, you know that I saw that thing, you know, the contest

come up and, you know, basically you had to record yourself

calling American Pharaohs Delmar Futurity when and obviously the

thing with the contest was out at Delmar.

So this was the year of American Pharaohs.

So obviously, you know, I think about the horse racing world at

that point and kind of the buzz that was around.

And so I was like, all right, yeah, sure.

Like, you know, I've never called a race.

I, you know, played a lot of like Gallup racer and like G1

jockey and rode my bike around and, you know, obviously always

had a fascination with announcers in pretty much every

sport. So like, again, you know, not

just horse racing, but you know, you think about the Vin

Scully's, you know, just those that that type of of announcer

and and so always had a fascination with it.

So, you know, that led me to appreciating Tom Durkin and that

kind of stuff. So had an idea of what what, you

know, I think a call sounds like, but I'd never called.

And so it was a little bit phony just from the standpoint of, you

know, you're calling a race. You can kind of map out what you

want to say ahead of time. It's obviously not how real race

calling goes. You just got to kind of call

what you see. But yeah, luckily was kind of

named as a finalist. They flew me out there, ended up

getting picked as the as the winner and then got to call the

last race out there as a 12 horse field on the grass.

The sun was setting and like colors are washed out and I got

Trevor Dimon behind me in case I fall out.

And yeah, the first, the first half of that call still to this

day makes my ears bleed and probably a lot of other people

that listen to it. But in the second-half I, I just

kind of started their like rattle off names and it, and it

was, it was to the point where it's like a round of golf.

Like I'll hit like, you know, 95 just miserable shots, but you'll

hit like 5 shots where you're like, yeah, I'm coming back.

Like I'll, I'll do this. And so it, it went well enough

where I was like, all right, like I, I could definitely see

this beats real estate, which wouldn't have to be much to do

that for me. And, and so, yeah, like I said,

just one thing led to another and the Charlestown job opened

up and I had a familiarity with the, with the management team

there. I'd done some stuff with like

the pre race handicapping shows on, you know, Charlestown

classic breeders classics night, that type of stuff.

So they had some familiarity there already.

And they said once that opened up, then the rest is history.

And I really think we're in an era of of excellent race calling

and I think it's happening all over the country.

I think we're totally taking it for granted, whether it's the

the calls in West Virginia, frankly, your place,

Mountaineer, they're both very good.

When you get to Maryland, you got a guy like Dave Freakin Rod

been hiding at Laurel, you've got Pete Aiello in South

Florida, you know, Jason Beebe, etcetera.

I mean, John Dooley's called it Grace is in Indianapolis,

people. I mean, this is it's a really

high level time right now in horse racing for calling.

So I really enjoyed it. You know, recently we added a

Tony Kalo to our circuit here in Kentucky at Turfway and LSI

think he's terrific and they've started something with him.

I don't know if you've seen how much LS you get to watch, but

right after the race he kind of gives a quick synopsis, a quick

like 20 seconds on what just happened and they show a replay.

I think it's a terrific thing to try to implement into what

they're doing. I don't know if Travis will end

up doing it at Churchill Downs in September, but I I like it a

lot. Frankly, if we can make horse

racing seem like you're watching any other sport, you know, if

somebody makes a first down, you watch them again run for the

first time on a replay, right? You know, if the Mountaineer's

up. By the way, what's your five and

seven? What are they doing this year?

What's the four and eight? What's the West Virginia

football? 5:00 and 7:00?

What do you think? Sorry, I think I'm actually

losing you here. I apologize.

See, see, I try to talk West Virginia stuff with our guy Paul

Espinosa, and he has a tech issue.

This is unacceptable. I was just bad mouthing your

football team. I was going to say they're going

5:00 and 7:00. That's it OK we're back now and

yes, yeah, that that that high speed broadband, you know, beep

boop, beep boop Yeah, I got grandma hang up the phone.

Paul's Paul's doing an interview.

But yeah, so it's it's going to be an interesting time here for

my Mountaineers, you know, got the hard edge back for old Rich

Rod, Bring him back some some glory days of, you know, back in

the Big East and, you know, here we go West Virginia stuff we're

ready to roll. Went down and and saw a game at

at Louisville. And and I will just say, just

for what it's worth, it's not all Mountaineers for me.

I have a college fantasy football team and Isaac Brown is

one of my keeper running. Backs.

Big year roll like all right, so looking forward to that.

Our course Heisman talker out here around Isaac Brown for

sure, but Paul Espinosa with us from Charlestown racetrack.

Their big day is tomorrow night ahead of the traverse.

So build your bankroll up there at Charlestown.

He's presented. Excuse me.

Our show today is presented by Amwager.

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friends at amwageramwager.com. All right, let's get into it.

And by the way, I don't, I hate doing, I hate this sentence that

comes out of my mouth when I do these shows ahead of say the

Indiana Derby or the Iowa Derby or the Charlestown Classic,

something like this. The take out rates at your place

are really good in case people aren't playing there, like

stunningly good actually. And so if people are interested,

15% on pick threes and pick fours, 12% on the pick 5.

Mandatory pay on the pick 6 tomorrow as well.

Correct. And we've gotten luckier,

luckier in the past certainly than what we have this year when

it comes to the pick six that the jackpot which was only in

like the $20,000 range went down on Saturday.

So whatever ends up, you know, carrying over from tonight, you

know, we'll it'll basically just be a, a low 12% take out pick 6

and you know, everything has to go that night.

So didn't get quite lucky there. I know two years ago we got

really lucky and we had a late pick 5 carryover, so there's

still a chance that maybe tonight we get lucky with that

again. But not holding my breath.

But yes, that is owed to my old boss.

His name was Eric Zimney and he definitely had a very forward

thinking, you know, idea of, you know, for Charlestown where we

our bread is buttered is making our product as appealing as

possible to the masses outside of, you know, here old podunk

West Virginia. And and part of that obviously

appealing to the horse players with low take out rate, making

sure that we had an HD feed that went out.

So again, you know, you're definitely not having to, you

know, look and see the fuzzy, fuzzy screen hopefully whenever

you're watching us. So yeah, we we definitely

looking out for the horse players as much as we can and we

we welcome you. Come on in, come on in Will the

more the merrier. Yeah, you know you can offset

take out rate with big fields, but you can't offset small

fields with many things. But a low take out rate does

help for sure. For example, pick ribbon only

draws 4. You know, we're gonna have to

try to make some money by being either really aggressive or

being, you know, against favorites in that kind of race.

But a low take out rate at least does set aside some of those

concerns. Race 7, we'll start that pick

five. It's an all states pick five

there at Charlestown tomorrow night, $40,000 on the line in

the last enchantment overnights for West Virginia breads.

We're going 4 1/2 furlongs, a very common distance there at

Charlestown. Can you kind of describe the

layout of the track to people that might not play?

What's the turf course like? What's your Tepita track like?

All the things that happened to Charlestown.

Yeah, so unfortunately I, I don't want to be the bearer of

bad news, but we are off the turf for Charlestown Classic

night. The entire card already off the

turf. For those that aren't aware,

that is because there is no turf course, there is no Tepita

course. We are a 3/4 of a mile Bullring.

And so again, for races like the Classic, it's going to be 3

turns. You know, a lot of people like

to get their jokes in. Oh, the horses are going to get

dizzy and, and I'm sorry, we get it.

We've heard that before. Just like you know, the

toothbrush best joke for for all you West Virginia people, go

ahead. And if you want to put it up

there. So the West Virginia stuff, you

know how? Would I put that up there?

That's a ridiculous thing to put on the screen.

There we go. Yeah, so, but anyway, so yeah, 4

1/2 furlongs, we're going to start kind of, you know, think

about where a typical 6 for a long race would start at most

any other track. And then they'll, they'll speed

around there in about 51 seconds, I would say.

And then we basically run essentially 5 distances all all

year round at Charlestown, Four and a half, 6 1/2.

There are going to be no stakes that are 6 1/2.

There's a 7 for a long race, mile to 16th.

I don't think we have any mile to 16th races.

And then the classic distance of a mile and an eighth.

So we're pretty cut and dry. You don't have to worry about us

putting the gate, knock on wood at any wrong positions because

you know, everything has a pole that's correlated here.

There's no temporary rails. We're all dirt racing all the

time, baby. I did not put up Saratoga stuff,

but that would be a Saratoga stuff.

Yeah, sorry. About.

That hey, no, that's all right. I'm not doing a Saratoga show

today. It's fine.

All right, so we'll talk to that guy tomorrow.

His name is Matthew. The last Enchantment is a West

Virginia bred race here on the outside is the combination of

Runko and Boca Chica. I want to ask this in a very

different way because that's the favorite in this race is the 8IN

Duncan Idaho. Why you would name a horse

Idaho, but that's a West Virginia bred.

That's a, that's West Virginia stuff.

And I can't, that's not my job. But those two, they win a third

of their races together. Arnaldo is the absolute Dean of

Charlestown for sure. And he's one of those guys that

discovered his circuit and he's good.

Like it just, you know, leaves once in a while to ride to

Delaware or Monmouth or, you know, at a Colonial or, you

know, Pimlico or whatever. But he's got his good spot there

in West Virginia. When people are looking at local

connections, they got to know about Arnaldo for sure. 100% and

he's not only, you know, Runko was kind of the king for a while

as well and now Anthony Ferrier has kind of, you know, moved in

and Boca Chica rides for him as well.

So you will see, I think on a lot of the West Virginia bred

races, you know, Runko has kind of changed.

He's he's obviously for those who don't know, he's, you know,

one of the winningest trainers of all time and all North

American racing. He's again, I don't know what

the updated number is of trainers with 4000 wins, but

he's in that club. I know Tom Amos just recently

joined that and like I said, I can't remember if it's like, you

know, it's like, I feel like it's less than 15 that I've ever

won 4000. And Ronko has is in that club.

And so, you know, but he's he's, I believe in his 60s.

And so he's kind of starting to focus more on quality than

quantity, whereas Farrier is, you know, he he definitely has a

presence in pretty much every 5000, you know, $10,000 claiming

races. But he does have quality as

well, quality that we'll see a little bit later on in one of

these races. But but I say all that to to say

Boca Cheek is going to ride most of the time for for farrier.

But when it comes to these West Virginia bed races where Runko

has a lot of like really good stock, you're going to see him

teaming up with Jeff and and like you said, very potent

combination anytime they they link up. 14 for 19 lifetime at

this distance is Duncan Idaho. Four of the other runs he hit

the board. Is this, and I want to ask it

this way, is, is he the biggest play against in this pick five?

In other words, more than say, Skippy, who's going for a third

straight Charlestown Classic. If I want to get a big payout in

the Pick 5, is it Duncan Idaho that I have to beat?

I would say so, especially considering like so last year,

this worse. He's not always the fastest out

of the gate, but I don't actually mind him having the

outside post because if he does break a beat slow, obviously

he's not going to have to worry about all the horses coming over

on him. But you do just have to look

back to this race last year where he was 4 to 5 and got beat

because he broke slow. And so if he is, let's just say

he he breaks more than just a beat slow and he actually has

to, you know, drop in and have to, you know, weave his way

through the pack. It can be a little bit can be a

little bit tricky. So I think especially in some of

these races, I don't know what your opinion is, but when the

the race is it's starting right off the off the bat, you know,

and betters are looking at that or when they're getting ready to

play their sequence and it and it's like that odds on favorite

is staring you right in the face.

I do feel like if you can beat that horse early, it seems to to

help more than beating a big favorite later on in the

sequence. Do you agree with that general

sentiment or do you have any opinion?

Yes, absolutely, especially because betters can see where

the money's going, right? And so they're, they're more

likely. Oh, he's three to five.

I'm just going to single here, right?

I think that's how people generally process those kinds of

bets. Not everybody for sure, but a

lot of you know, Johnny come lately because it's Charlestown

Classic night for sure. Right.

Hey, I don't know anything about West Virginia Reds 03 to five.

OK, yeah, I'll just, I'll just single that one.

But it's interesting because, I mean, the winner last year was

still Jeff Runko, but it was that cruise combination, the two

of them winning at 20% as well. Penguin Power.

Could he run it back, you think? What a cool horseman, 10 years

old. I actually just did a little

video with him a little bit earlier this morning and you

know, he's going to be making his first start off of a little

bit of a layoff, You know, sort of reminds me of, you know, the,

the old Toby Keith song. He's not as good as he once was,

but he's as good once as he ever was.

So I think that there's definitely a possibility, you

know, talk about like just an unbelievable horse, you know, as

the 21 for 42. So literally a 50% win rate here

at Charlestown has banked over $600,000.

I, I don't want to be the one to count them out.

You know he if they. Just last chance at a career at

a stakes win too, right? I mean, this is, you know, this

is this is a big spot for him, frankly, as a 10 year old if

they're going to win one more stakes with him.

Absolutely and like the defending champion in this race.

So again, you know, you get it done at 9.

You know, the race in the dash for cash last year on breeders

classics night, kind of, you know, a little bit

disappointing, But if he if he shows up, you know, I I do feel

like he's his numbers put him right there.

If he if he's still capable of getting back to that best.

Clearly they've been pointing to this race.

They wouldn't be in here if they, you know, just for kicks

and giggles with this horse. So I would expect him to to be

ready and be ready to give his best effort.

I think he probably does want horses like Honeyquist and his

stablemate Duncan Idaho to hook up.

A Jefferson native has a a good bit of speed too, And I think if

they can cook out in front of him and he can maybe get a nice

little pocket trip and swing out in the stretch.

I can't rule him out. I think he would.

He would definitely be. If you're trying to beat Duncan

Idaho, I think he's definitely one of the horses you'd have to

have on. Penguin Power was bred for a

grand. As you mentioned, he's made over

$642,000. He's about as good an

advertisement for the West Virginia program as you're ever

going to have. Gelden, 10 years old, still

running. I assume that he's coming to the

end of his career here. Yeah, he's going to have to

retire in December. Yeah.

So I don't believe so we don't have any, any rules.

Like I guess is it New York where like 10 years old, 10 year

olds can't, can't run? I know I've called, I've called

I believe a 12 year old here at Charlestown.

And again, we're starting to get into, you know, it's not

obviously one of the things that you like necessarily get super

excited about. But I feel like when it comes to

this horse, when you know, that he's getting like he's only

going to be doing this if he still, like, loves it, in my

opinion. Yeah.

It's not like he's not competitive.

He's already won this. Yeah, exactly.

That's frankly, Yeah, right. So, yeah, so you know, I don't

know, I haven't talked to to Jeff or his owner David Raim.

So by the way, common ownership, common trainer with Duncan

Idaho, who by the way, his Duncan Idaho's full brother is

Mwadi, who we'll see in the last race.

And I I'm just a hillbilly. I'm not a nerd.

But apparently those are Dune related names.

I guess the the Dune series, I think both Duncan Idaho and

Watdeep have a tie into that. But but yeah, so that's that's a

little bit of a back story there.

As for the back story on the pedigree Fiber signed again,

another name that you definitely would want to familiarize

yourself with if you ever play in Charlestown.

He is an unraced son of Unbridled Song.

He is 1/2 brother to Spikestown. And I believe the story was he

ran through like a fence post when he was a a young horse,

never made it to the races. John and Cindy McKee, now the

late John McKee and his wife Cindy, they had picked him up

and he has become the sire of Sires.

I shouldn't say the sire of sires.

He's become the sire of runners here at Charlestown for going on

a decade now, running to Love You, who's the only West

Virginia bred ever to win the Charlestown Classic by Fiber

Son, Late Night Powwow, the only West Virginia bred ever to win

the Charlestown Oaks, also by Fibersund.

You have Penguin Power, Wadi Duncan Idaho, Overnight Powwow,

the list goes on. So that is the kind of back

story there. A really good pedigree.

I believe he's also 1/2 to IRAP, who was a good runner for for

Doug O'Neill. But yeah, that's kind of the

back story on Fibersund. He's a horse that, you know, if

he hit the track, he probably would have been a runner.

But either way, he's thrown some really good runners considering

the the type of of stock he's getting sent his way.

From a broodmare standpoint, it would have been interesting to

see how he could have done it in another life in in Kentucky or

something like that. But we're happy to have him here

in West Virginia. No kidding.

Oh, man, that's a by the way, that was brought to you by West

Virginia stuff. Just sore aware of all those

things. Yes, that's right now.

OK, All right, we'll move on The race thing.

Why don't we do that together? It is the Misty Bennett pink

ribbon, some furlongs on the dirt here.

This is essentially the the Distaff for the day.

Phillies and mares 3 and up. Quarter million bucks on the

line in this one. Why do you think only four

horses showed up for this? I have a couple of answers, or

at least one that I'll start with.

So Ways and Means not showing up for the ballerina, I think hurt.

I think that there were going to be some some people.

And honestly, if you thought, if you think back all the way to

like Derby weekend and you think about like Copian, you figured

that she probably would have pointed to the ballerina.

Ways and Means would be in the ballerina.

And then, you know, a lot of other Phillies and mares are

like, yeah, we're good. We'll we'll leave that to them.

We'll head on down to Chuck Town.

So I think that's part of it. I think also people see we have

a Grade 1 winner in Bava. It's actually, again, when you

think about the top three, it is far and away the best top three

we've ever had in this race. When you have a Grade 1 winner

and Charlestown Oaks winner in Bava, a Charlestown Oaks winner

in Mystic Lake and then the defending champion in this race

free like a girl. And she's been butting heads

with Torpedo Anna this year. So, you know, I feel like that

top three, it was kind of known that that those you know, that

Saffy's going to be here with an Armada every year.

And when the connections of Vava, they kind of put it out

pretty early that they don't believe that this that this

Philly, that this mayor likes the surface at Saratoga and she

likes the surface here. So they put kind of put it out

there, I think a a month or two ago that they were coming here.

And so I think that there are probably some elements of like

it's 250. You might be, it's going to be

hard to to, you know, beat even the top 2IN Vava and Mystic

Lake. So why not once Ways and Means

is out of the picture up in the ballerina, let's head up, head

on up there. So I think I could because early

in the week we were. Planning for early.

You need to pause. I want you to.

Do you realize what you just said that people are ducking

your race to go race at a softer spot at Saratoga?

She's feel good about that. You feel good about that?

I'm serious. That's that's a cool thing to be

able to say out loud. You just you're ready to roll on

to the next thing. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, like, and I think about a

Philly, like, you know, my main squeeze who also ran into

Charlestown Oaks last year, she was originally pointing to this

spot. And then again, I know she

obviously ended in ended up in the ballerina up there.

So I know she was one that would have certainly helped to make

it. If this is a 5 horse deal with

like those 4, then again, you're talking about like that.

We're never going to top that. But you know, nonetheless, while

4 is never ideal, I do think that the quality of the top

three make it very exciting to be certainly the best, the best

Philly and Mayor race ever run at Charlestown still, even with

a four horse field in my opinion.

So wow, that's awesome. OK, so getting into it, Baba is

the three to five favorite here. I rad making the trip down for

the day. The last rode her to a win in

the seven furlong grade 2 Chicago all right across the

street here at Churchill Downs before that did run in the

sloppy Derby City distaff. No concern over wet weather.

So she'll be just fine. By the way, Cherie Devoe closing

in on 20% strike rate in graded stakes at this point.

So she is really, really flying around or just stakes in

general, I should say, Excuse me flying around.

I wanted to ask you essentially because I do think, look, if you

made the case for Mystic like or you made the case for Vava, no

one's going to fight you, right? Those are obvious and and you

know, worthy classy Phillies and Maris, but free like a girl.

How much of a chance do you give her in the spot?

Again, defending champion. Fun fact that's made a little

bit less fun because of who he was trained by.

But L Deal, her sire, actually won on a Charlestown Classic

undercard here. He was trained by Jorge Navarro.

And so that horse, he basically ran a hole in the wind, went

like 50 flat for a 4 1/2 for a long race.

But he was obviously very fast horse.

And so the fact that his daughter actually came here and

won this race last year was pretty impressive.

You know, I personally, because of that, because of knowing how

fast L deal was, I like her getting back to a Sprint

distance, even though it's two turns, You know, she's been I've

been amazed that she's been able to be as effective.

She still hasn't cracked through in like, you know, one that you

know, that that top level 2 turn race.

But the fact that she's again finishing within 4 lengths and

five lengths of torpedo Anna, who, you know, I know she wasn't

like lighting the world on fire earlier this year, but like, you

know, that's impressive in and of itself.

So I think that when you you project her to come back to the

to the, you know, distance that she probably likes, you know,

with the seven furlongs and the fact that she clearly can run

two turns again, I don't know that Baba's Oaks made her like,

you know, this horse that like she didn't like run off the

screen in the Oaks. I just, I feel like there's

something about the four horse field that can kind of bring

this bring the contenders all closer together, where I think

that she's it's kind of hard to separate her from from them.

When you think, when you think about her running her best and

and I I think that it's it just comes down to off a little bit

of a layoff, which she doesn't get often.

You know, is she going to be at her best?

I guess that's kind of where I my bigger question.

So was the pink ribbon previously a great at stakes?

It has not been we, we currently have only had two and it's just

the classic and the Oaks. And we are, we believe and I

will talk about this race in a in a bit, but we believe we have

a chance to get the Hilton up to grade 3 next year.

We'll see the pink ribbon. This obviously this field helps

potentially, you know, just with the heavy hitters, but kind of

to be determined on whether or not the pink ribbon can kind of

race, you know, get to that graded stakes threshold.

Yeah, it's interesting, you know, if a horse like Vava

doesn't, if she ends up winning that thing, you know, when the

greatest stakes committee gets back together, they'll look at

past winners. And that list is going to

include a lot of very nice horses, frankly, grade one

winners, etcetera. So, you know, Sreedivo isn't

picking bomb spots for her horses, like that's not her ammo

there. So certainly looking forward to

that one. You mention the memorial that is

the next race here on the card, Race 9 tomorrow at Charlestown.

That's what we're doing right now.

Talk with a track announcer, Paul Espinoso down there at

Charlestown in West Virginia. That Robert Hilton memorial is

essentially the Charlestown Derby. 7 furlongs on the dirt

here. It is 2 turns here and we get an

interesting field. We get a couple of Kentucky

Derby alums from this year in Neo Equos and in Owen Almighty.

I was talking with the Flying Dutchman folks the other day on

Blood Horse Monday and they were back and forth between going to

Saratoga and coming to Charlestown.

And one of the things I asked them about was the two turns to

Charlestown. And they're like, we know we can

do it. You know, we saw all those races

in Tampa. You know, you can go the seven

furlongs in the Pasco, whatever. And so they're not worried about

the distance. They're not worried about the

two turns. I have him on top in this race.

Excuse me, I do not have him on top in this race because I'm

going to try to use and beat him with Neo Echos, who I think is

just really fast is going to get the lead.

We know what Safi does at Charlestown.

This ended up being a pretty fun field man.

This is a nice little race. Absolutely.

I feel like in general that, yeah, the just in terms of the

quality, the top tier horses that we got in both the pink

ribbon in this race, really, you know, the racing office knocked

it out of the park with with some of that.

So yeah, Owen Almighty, fun fact, we believe, and by we, I

mean me and my former boss to kind of nerd out on some of this

stuff, but we believe that Owen Almighty is the highest placing

Kentucky Derby horse ever to run at Charlestown.

We don't believe we've ever had any horse from the Super in the

Derby run at Charlestown. So, you know, it's a big gift

for us. I, I think that again, he's a

horse with like clearly a lot of talent, lot of upside.

It is a little bit of an ask. I think, you know, to be coming

back, you know, hasn't run since the Derby.

Ran his eyeballs out that day, ran way better than I ever would

have anticipated him running. I guess it'll be interesting to

see just because you have horses like Gun Metal, like, you know,

Neo Echos like you mentioned, I think Trace Coronas is a little

bit sneaky. And then you have the local

hopeful in Faster Gator and that aforementioned Anthony Ferrier

teaming up with Arnoldo Boca Chica.

We get to see them together. You know, he's held his own

elsewhere and some pretty decent states company up at the like

the Bayshore, up at Aqueduct. Absolutely.

And then he came here actually for the first time and, and

showed that he could handle the, the, the, the tight turns and,

you know, 117 and change. That's racehorse time here at

Charlestown. So I think that again, if there

was one local horse, I feel like in, in any of these races,

that's, you know, that that's the one that I feel like has the

certainly has the best shot. But they did him no favors when

it came to the to entry time with the with this field because

I I I feel like this is absolutely a spread race for me

to your point. OK, yeah, I, you know how you

talked about Owen Almighty, I largely feel about Neo Equos.

I think his Florida Derby was really under.

I thought he was really, really good, got the lead, did much of

the running earlier in that race before being overtaken by

eventual winner. The only horse to beat

Sovereignty this year into Pad St.

Of course, Sovereignty comes back and wins the Derby just

five weeks later, but just being in that company and being

against those things, I got Neo Equus on top.

I loved him in the Jersey Shore over Haskell weekend and he

obviously showed up for that one as well.

I think that was on the Friday before, if I'm remembering

correctly. But anyways, yeah, they tried

him in the Woody Stevens in the mud.

You get this horse back in fast go.

He seems to be really, really good and I think that he'll sit

on top of my picks for the Hilton Memorial itself.

We start those great at stakes. Now we move on to race 10.

It's Charlestown Oaks Grade 2 in this one, obviously for

three-year old Phillies. 3/4 of $1,000,000 on the line, 7

furlongs on the dirt there again, A2 turn race here, one

that we saw in the victory ride. But before that in the Jersey

girl is Indy Bay. She'll be in here at 5:00 to

2:00. And in here as well was a horse

that scratched out of a race at Ellis Park and there, Ottoman

Oaks there. She'll run here instead for 3/4

of $1,000,000 in vodka with A twist.

Is she the favorite to play against in this sequence?

I similar for similar reasons to what you talked about Neo Equos.

Now we're kind of both zigzagging off of each other

points. I look at her race 2 back into

Leslie's lady where she ran behind Kilwin eventual, you

know, next out Grade 1 winner. And I think that she got back to

what her preferred game is, which again is sprinting and you

know, she's obviously has the two turn experience, but now

gets it without the distance questions.

So I I actually I like her. I would be surprised.

This would be a race where in my opinion, I would be surprised if

it wasn't vodka with A twist, Indie Bay or Secret Faith I'm

chalking out in the Oaks. I don't really have like a a

super strong lean among them, but I feel like, you know,

secret Faith obviously will be the better price I would think

out of those 3. And you know that she has the

ability to run around the Bullring as well.

She's won stakes races down to Delta Downs.

And obviously he's been beating up on Louisiana bread Company,

but doing it very impressively. And you just have to look back

to like free like a girl who, you know, she obviously very

talented. Louis has Louisiana bread that's

been able to transfer her form from down there up to here.

So that's how I kind of see this race.

I think that in general, you know, the Oaks, we've had some

accomplished Phillies run in the race before.

But generally speaking, I feel like the Oaks is kind of turning

into a race where you're trying to get those horses that are on

the ascent and hopefully, you know, they win our race like a

Baba and then go on to do big things.

And so, you know, again, it, it's it this this race kind of

lacks the confirmed star power that some of the other races do

have. But I feel like again, it's,

it's a pretty deep, deep race. But from a wagering standpoint,

top three for me. I'm kind of chalking out the

Oaks. I'm very chalking out I was

trying to throw you off my trail.

I totally agree about vodka with A twist, who we saw at Los

Alamitos of all things in December, getting ready for the

Kentucky Oaks trail before trying to starlet there and then

the Santa Anita Oaks itself finishing third behind ten

months. Silent law, as you point out,

she runs in that Leslie's lady here across the street at

Churchill Downs and she's right behind Killin, right?

And we know what Killin is now. It wasn't something like I'm

sure we knew about over Derby weekend, but here we are.

And so, yeah, they tried her in the pee patch on the turf.

I'm drawing a complete line through that one for sure with

her. And then, you know, if you

wanted to go inside the Indy Bay, I would understand that I

have a different long shot than you do.

I think Top is really interesting here.

Finished second in the Indiana Derby or the Indiana Oaks.

Excuse me. And if you go back to her

previous form, she's a really good sprinter.

So she's she's been good both over dry and fast go and in with

Fernando de la Cruz. You once in a while you get a

ride from him where he's willing to get out front and keep the

lead right on the front. I remember that, you know, for

example, like the United Nations last year, he won with get

smoking by getting the lead. I know that's my own 3/8 and not

7 furlongs, but I think he's capable and top stands out to me

as one. I think that will for Michelle

Elliot. We'll, we'll ship in and do

really well. I I think she fits at this

level. And frankly, part of it is as we

talked about vodka with A twist and kill win.

I think the same thing about Kleeko who won the Indiana Oaks.

She is in a very, very impressive, very professional 3

year old Philly. And so I would not be surprised

to see top come out of the Indiana Oaks and run big

tomorrow night there at Charlestown.

So there you go. How about that?

I'll just add that she's she's an interesting Philly, you know,

most, most of the time. So I I make the morning line in

Charlestown most throughout the course of the year.

I use the equibase past performances.

And again, it's just because I I'm not going to, you know,

bother with pay and I don't have a ADRF hookup or whatever.

When I'm handicapping big races, though, I do typically like to

like to have the buyers in front of me.

So for Charlestown rate classic day, I do have, you know, the

the DRF in front of me and she's fast enough in my opinion on the

echo based numbers. I think that when I went through

it the first time, you know, she I definitely thought more highly

of her. She's not quite as fast on the

buyer scale. And so that's sort of what got

me off of her a little bit. But again, just from a just from

a profile standpoint and like like you said, I I think that

daughter of army mule getting back to the Sprint distance, you

know, I'm all about that. So, so yeah, I think that that

we'll, she'd, she'd definitely be one that again, wouldn't, I

wouldn't be like draw on the floor if she was able to get it.

Yeah, and especially with her, you know, she starts her career

at Turfway. She's clearly not a Tapeeta

horse. And that's three of her seven

lifetime races. And if you remove those from

what she's done, if you put her on the dirt, she's 2 for four

with two with two seconds. I mean, she's never been worse

than second on the dirt. And so I just, I think she's

there. I think Top is the is the horse

to watch in the in the Oaks tomorrow to the point that I I

think she can win it. I really do.

So Top would be an interesting upset candidate there at

Charlestown tomorrow. And of course the crown jewel

the evening is race 11, the Charlestown Classic.

There are two races after this so it does start a late pick 3.

There are also just look at the wagering menu.

There are a billion things you can wager out of Charlestown

tomorrow. They're all by the way, reminder

do it with our friends at am wager am wager.com take out

rates of 15% on the pick threes and pick fours, 12% on the pick

five in a mandatory pay in the 12% pick 6 as well.

So if you want to get in all these races involved in that

Charlestown Classic Grade 2,000,000 bucks on the line

here, mile and an eighth is this Grade 2 race.

Exciting to see banishing in here After he scratched out of

his race most recently in the Cowboy Jones down there at Ellis

Park. I was a little surprised to see

him in a mile and an eighth and then I remembered he was really

good in the blame and before that well in the Oak Lot

Handicap as well. Were you surprised to see him in

here? So was kind of tipped off again

in the press that, you know, it sounds like the folks that were

talking to David Jacobson, he kind of just did it was a simple

math equation. It's like, I think the, the

cowboy Jones is like 200 versus versus 1,000,000 for for Chuck

Town. And so, you know, he's he's an

amazing horseman. Like, you know, with what he's

turned into here since David Jacobson, David Jacobson has

gotten him, you know, just and and being able to do it like any

different type of situation. I feel like, you know, he kind

of almost had the the reputation, which didn't make

any sense because I am a pedigree guy.

Obviously I've mentioned pedigree a number of times so

far in our conversation, a ghost zapper out of AP Indy.

But like sometimes it seems like he struggles with that mile and

8th kind of I think to your point.

But but yeah, I mean, I do think that the one thing about

Charleston, obviously the from the top of the stretch to the

wire, it's 1 furlong. So, you know, just in terms of

how long, it's not like he's got this long Fairgrounds or

Churchill Downs type stretch, you know, staring him in the

face whenever he turns for home. He's only got to make it another

eighth of a mile once he hits the stretch top of the stretch

of Charlestown. So yeah, I mean, I'm excited to

get him in there. I thought his race obviously in

the Churchill Downs on Derby day was phenomenal.

And you know, he has a while not a win over Skippy.

He's beaten him already this year.

So, you know, I think that he's absolutely a horse that should

be right there. I will just add this, and I hope

I'm not getting him in trouble for saying this, but it was

actually Tyler Gaffer, his agent, Matt Musikar.

And I apologize if I'm butchering his last name that

he, he got in touch with me to nominate both Vanishing and Owen

Almighty for the race. And he texted me and said I hope

I didn't make the wrong decision in the classic.

And he basically had the, According to him, he had the

choice of Skippy or banishing. Of course Tyler won on Skippy 2

years ago. Jose won on him last year.

So I saw Jose on him this year and I had just assumed like oh,

Jose got the call back but it sounded like Tyler might have

had the choice and they end up going with vanishing.

So take that for what it's worth.

And again, we'll see if if Matt and Tyler made the right call or

not. Awesome Aaron will break from

the two. Norm Cassie getting this one out

of the Troy Green barn. Claimed out of a race here

across the street at Churchill after running at Mountaineer.

Running third at Mountaineer. Incredibly very good move out,

let's put it that way, to the Norm Cassie barn.

Awesome Aaron winning at 7:00 to 1:00.

The Pimlico special this year. Tried him in the Suburban at a

mile and a quarter last time out.

Are you willing to draw a line through that suburban?

I'm willing to consider it. You know, he got, he's gotten,

he got really good. It seemed like once clearly he

was rounding into form and then they took the blinkers off in

that race before the Pimlico special and he ran off the

screen. The race in the Pimlico special

was really good. Phileas fall guy obviously came

back to kind of flatter. That effort sounded like maybe I

haven't done a deep deep dive to like really speak

authoritatively on this, but it sounded like maybe the inside

was good for the suburban. That being said, it's still it's

still one of those races that it's it doesn't look awesome.

You know, I'm not a I'm not a big draw a line through a race

unless there's an obvious excuse like with with vodka with A

twist. Obviously she just doesn't love

church. So, so like I, I don't love that

performance. I also don't love that, you

know, even though Javier Castellano's side note for

Charlestown winning Charlestown Classic, winning jockeys in this

race on this field of eight. Jose Tyler Javier, Hang on, hang

on. Has Irad won one?

He is not. I didn't think so.

OK, All right, hang on, hang on, hang on.

Javier Irad's there, Jose. I'm going to go.

Luis Saez. You won it twice on Art

Collector. That's right.

OK. Yep.

OK. Yep.

So yeah, and but and out of all those names, Javier is the only

one to win it three times. So anyway, he gets a good

Charlestown Classic jockey. But you know, obviously I rad

you'd think he would have maybe had his choice.

Obviously he rides a lot, probably a lot more for Sappy

than he does for Norm love Norm. But you know, again, that's a

numbers game. And so, you know, the fact that

they end up with Javier, obviously I don't think it

hurts, but it just in terms of like what they think, what the,

you know, jocks and their agents think of awesome Aaron doesn't

instill a ton of confidence. But but again, like I said, if

you are somebody that draws lines through races, then then

yeah, I think those previous that previous four race clump,

you know puts him, puts him there if some of the favorites

don't show up. Alexander Helios, you mentioned

IRAD getting them out there for Safi Joseph Junior.

They have combined on 146 mounts about the last 18 months.

No show in the blame. Before that, a no show in the

Arkansas Handicap that did win the Razorback Handicap at Grade

3 at Oaklawn after winning a an optional claimer at Gulfstream

going a mile in the 16. So at least two turns there to

give him much of a shot here. The half brother to Preakness

winner Rombauer. I don't.

He's just a horse that I kind of trouble or have trouble

picturing him getting the trip and not because of Irad, but

just because you figure that he's going to probably have to

defer to Skippy, I would think. And he seems like a horse that

definitely wants to be kind of close.

The the fact that it's two races, 2 iffy races

back-to-back. Also, again, for the same

reason, there's awesome Aaron doesn't instill a ton of

confidence on his best day, though that Razorback again puts

him right there. And and that's obviously not not

far away. It's not, you know, it's back in

February, so you don't have to harken back, you know, to like

some far, far away race. I just again, I kind of struggle

to picture him getting the trip in this race with horses like

Banishing Skippy and Willie Dees.

I I just don't see him like passing those horses.

Just just kind of my opinion. Paula Espinosa, he's going to be

calling the race tomorrow. Talking about, of course, the

Charlestown Classic right now. We've gone through the first

three horses in that race. Skippy will break from the four

tomorrow. As you mentioned, Jose Ortiz

keeps the mount. He was up the track in the

Whitney last out. But this is a horse that's two

for two in this race. Looking to make it a three in a

row. Art Collector, as you mentioned,

1/2 of these in a row and Researcher, one of the two first

grade versions of this in O 9 and 2010.

The researcher's still the fastest speed figure ever in

this race, the first one ever. How about that, Paul?

Yeah, he's a crazy story. He was then I believe he was

privately purchased at some point.

And they rather than keep doing the thing that was like working

and making them a lot of money, they tried to turn him into a

steeplechase horse. And so, yeah, talk about what it

would be like to have that type of money one day where you're

just like, screw it, I don't need, I don't need the

Charlestown Classic. I'll just run this horse over

jump something he's never done in his life.

So anyway, but yeah, fun hometown horse.

That was a nice way to to start things off.

And yeah, he was a he was a serious runner.

I know he ran in like the the Stephen Foster.

He won a an open stakes up in New York.

I can't remember if it was the Stymie or the Queens County, but

yeah, he was a runner. I'm not sure.

Did you mention imperative? He is.

He is the only other multiple winner.

He didn't win it back-to-back, but he's the only other two time

of the classes. So, yeah, Skippy's the 4th one

of those. But as as we're talking right

now, I'm realizing how much handicapping this Charlestown

classic is like a a bigger life lesson than forgiveness because

you do really have to kind of forgive a number of horses in

this race of what they did in their last start.

You know, like that Whitney, as I was watching it, obviously

watching and rooting for Skippy because clearly we want him to

be the Grade 1 winner to help with a from a grading standpoint

and just rooting for him in general.

But it went from in the stretch thing and like, oh, Skippy's

going to hang on for a piece to like, wow, what happened to

Skippy? And he's basically kind of like

almost eased across the wire. And so, you know, he's coming

back in 20 days, which he did last year.

It I don't have like any, I don't have sources that other

people should depend on in my opinion.

It's just like just strictly like a Paul's opinion type of

thing. I feel like I'm hearing

rumblings about like that. He just doesn't that he isn't

coming in the same way as he was in previous years.

And again, I don't I don't, you know, know that anybody should

take that for more than a grain of salt with, you know, with me

saying it. But it just seems like maybe

that this year, if you were going to get him, this is the

year to get him. We'll see if that plays comes to

fruition. Would you be surprised if he

won? No, not OK.

No, that's all right. Como Como rabino Omo EDA is

going to break from the five. Have you practiced Como rabino

Omo EDA very much? Yes, because he ran third in the

race last year. That's exactly right.

So he is back. He's already hit the board here.

He's had a really good run in the Texas Turf Classic, frankly

gets back to the dirt here and did win the Sexton Mile earlier

in the year at Lone Star. I think he's a sneaky pick here,

frankly because he's already hit the board in this race.

I think he's a must include and say exact to trifecta kind of

play. Aim into that no argument.

Very cool horse son of California Chrome can clearly

run on both surfaces. I'm not sure if he's run on

synthetic before, but I'd imagine he could probably run

over that too. You know, he after our race, he

went on to win the Steve Saxon mile to, to get his graded

stakes win. And I don't think you have to do

a lot of dreaming, like I said, to, to picture him being right

there. I I think that again, he is

absolutely logical to, you know, if you were, if you were going

to ask me like who I was most sure was going to like run their

a race. Like I think it might be him.

I don't know. Trademark right next to him, the

aforementioned Fernando De La Cruz.

Vicki Oliver says this one. She's over 23 recently in graded

stakes. This one did run in the

Salvatore Mile and the Fayette up the track in both of those.

I'm not super high on his power chances here.

I'm not either. You know, he he upset the the

Clark back in 23 at 13 to 1. I think he'll be a higher number

than that here. He does have a race over the

Oval, but it was in the Hilton a few years back.

So it's been a while. And yeah, he would be one that

again would let's just say that the octave of my voice, if it

would probably like mirror Tom with like, oh, it's my mad bird.

I never heard it's trademark. That'd be what it'd sound like

if he was winning this race. There you go.

It's trademark. So he is of course, the son of

upstart, maybe interesting. And the ownership.

There are cool guys over there. They do a great job.

Keep it rolling through the Chuck Town field here.

Willie Dees does break there. You just mentioned him.

I like him a lot. Coming out of the shape of

memorial. This is Uskar ran a pretty OK

race in the Ellis Park last out in that Cowboy Jones.

You give him much of a shot. He'd be my top pick in the race.

Honestly, I think that if you look at Skippy's last two races,

last two wins here, wire to wire in like very moderate paces,

2448, I think that Willie Dees has a chance to be, I think he's

the most likely horse to be in front of Skippy for the first

time ever at Charlestown. And we've seen the mic maker

reclamation projects before and this looks like another one.

I think he's in raging form. I know that basically, you know,

on Shaffer Memorial Day, they're basically running on asphalt up

there at Indiana Grand or at the Hoosier.

What is it? Horseshoe Indy.

Sorry, Horseshoe. Indiana Polis.

That's right. There you go.

But yeah, I think that I think he's the now horse and but he's

he's the pick. I think Louis puts him on the

lead and never looks back. Maker's been sneaky graded at

Saratoga's places for horses as well.

It's been it's been a hell of a summer for him.

Ghouls Gold will break from the outside.

Brandon and his junior in town to ride for Kenny Mcpeak here.

This is the horse that finished third in the Cornhusker last out

mile in an eighth over. Good go at Prairie Meadows.

Can he get better off of that one?

Got to drop all those medications we had in Iowa

though. Yep, Yep.

I would say that again, he would.

I'd follow him under the the surprise category.

Belongs in the race horse that you'd love to have in the barn.

I just think he's a little bit up against it against this

field. Did win the Smarty Jones last

year. The prep, of course, for the

Pennsylvania Derby had to take off time, though did not run

again until April. Does have a win this year at

Churchill Downs, going a mile in an eighth if you're interested

in a horse that has one at the distance.

Well, that wraps up our coverage of the Charlestown Classic.

How do people find you? How do they find?

Because I I I've tagged everything on the on the Twitter

machine but. How do people find nobody really

wants to find me, Louis. I mean, let's be.

Honest. How do they find Charlestown?

Let's do that. Let's do that.

OK, yes, race Charlestown on I know we're on X, we're on

Facebook, we're on Instagram. I think there's a TikTok.

I'm not a TikTok guy, so you don't have to worry about seeing

me dancing around on there. But but yeah, race Charlestown

is the is our handle and the great folks over at the Grand

Slam, the agency, they, they are social media partners.

They do a great job knocking out of the park for social media

coverage. So if you want to feel like

you're there, even if you're not, that's where you tune in

there. You go well have a bunch of

great calls tomorrow. I hope you have a great time.

Does the place I mean is this, is this the all your regulars?

Are there a bunch of people show up?

I mean, is it a wild night out? There is a lot of fun.

It is. And, and actually starting a

couple years ago, we've kind of turned it into like a

Charlestown Classic Festival where we have like 15 food

trucks. There's a beer garden.

I think there's like a petting zoo.

There's we, we have three musical acts that I've never

heard of, but apparently people are pretty excited about.

I think there's like somebody named Susto and then like Amanda

Shires again, I don't know if any of these names will ring a

bell. I don't even know if I'm saying

them right. But apparently there are people

that are very excited about that.

So there, there is a great turn out that tomorrow night and

definitely if you're in the area, come on out.

And Charlestown classic evening, our once a year visit with Paul

Espinoza. Well, I always tell, hey, get a

hold of me before you big West Virginia bread day and you never

know. So there you go.

All right Paul, we appreciate you jumping on the happy hour

buddy. We'll catch you tomorrow night.

All the calls there at Charlestown, our West Virginia

foray for the year. This is for the horse racing

Happy Hour presented by AM wager AM wager.com.

Get it with them right now. 100% deposit match up to $150.00 for

Paul Espinoza. I will your vote this is.