Dan Issel Returns; 2023 Travers

Hard fade on the music tonight. Welcome in Horse Racing Happy

hour. How about that?

Hanging out with Dan Issel? My name is Louis Ribeau.

Thanks so much for making us a part of your podcasting weekend,

Dan. How's the world?

The world is terrific. Big card at Saratoga.

First of all, a grade one tomorrow on Friday and then

grade ones on Saturday. I'm looking forward to that.

That'll be great. And so if you don't know, Dan

and I are man, Did you? So on your life bingo card, Dan,

did you have turning 73 and then becoming friends with a man

named Louie? Well, I was already friends with

Louie Dampier, but fair enough. Not Louis B.

No. No, that's right.

Having another one around. At Louis B, There you go.

So Dan is still joining us. You can find us every weekday

morning on ESPN, Louisville, 11:50 ESPN, louisville.com.

You can just ask your smart speaker to stream the show if

you'd like to as well and hang out with us as we do that.

We do, frankly, I think as much horse racing talk as any sports

show in the country. And so Steve Bick does more Dan,

but that's his job, right, is to actually just totally talk

horses. Exactly.

I can't say how happy I am that I met Louie B though, because I

have a great time every morning. There you go.

Well, excellent. So you can always find Dan and

me doing that. And if you need someone to miss

a free throw before an NBA Finals game?

Hey, stop it. All right, well, let's get into

it. Dan, on the show sheet here, of

course because I'm Mr. Show sheet, We have our first segment

here that we do every week and you're very familiar with the

show. And so we'll go and we'll watch

some replays. I'm sure producer Zach got those

ready for us here. Couple of interesting races last

week, Dan, obviously the Lake Placid, we had the Delmar Oaks,

but of course the Alabama which has become one of the very, you

know, certainly one of the most important three-year old Philly

races that we have on our calendar and it was randomized.

They got the lead early on and kept it at the end here at

Saratoga. And randomized, confronted by

defining purpose. Wet paint, still with plenty of

work to do and randomized turns for home very wide but still in

front. Wet paint will have to come

through along the inside, but it's randomized, still loaded

with a furlong left to go, and she has a three length lead.

Wet paint is trying her best and so is defining purpose.

But today's the day for randomized.

It's her coming out party in the Alabama presented by Keenland

Sales. She made every well there you

go, randomized getting that lead and frankly putting everyone

away, Dan at the 10 for a long distance.

Very unusual for three-year old Phillies to be running that kind

of distance. I think you and I both thought

going in this set up really well for wet paint and obviously she

didn't run a bad race I don't think and obviously she gets a

check and all those sorts of things, but this was randomized

coming out party as a track announcer Frank Miramati

mentions. I mean look it's Chad Brown

fifth start ever. Her runs A and wins a black type

before this, but certainly it's a much bigger stage here.

Yeah, for for sure. And and I don't think that the

wet paint lost anything in that defeat.

Louie, you saw how close she was.

I mean, in all of her good races she has come from way out of it

and the pace was so slow she had to be closer to it.

And you know, horses are funny. You can't make them do something

that they that they're not comfortable doing.

So Randomized ran a great race. But I I I don't think you can

discount wet paint just yet. Just looking at the breeding

here, it's a daughter of Nyquist.

We're going to see some more Nyquist runners this weekend,

Dan in some of those great ones. He's turning out to be quite the

sire. Yeah, he of course he stands at

Darley for. I think he's up to $40,000 for

a. But no, he's a really nice horse

and and has sired some really nice horses.

I remember it was it that was early on Nyquist believe it or

not early on to my horse racing really getting into it.

And I remember how excited everyone was that the two year

old the undefeated 2 year old champ won the Derby and everyone

was everyone was booking was booked in New York and ready to

go And and just one of those stories with Doug O'Neill of

course in that case and his kids man they're they're showing out.

We will see some of them this weekend as well.

But you know do you ever Dan, do you watch those races at all

like in Alabama you see a horse like randomized only their fifth

start. She's she's never been against

that kind of class before. Do you ever think, OK, that

could translate to the traverse the next week?

Or do you go race by race in that case?

No, I can't. I kind of go with race by race.

You The funny thing right now with three-year olds, Louie,

they they develop at at different stages and and that's

why we'll talk about this later. That's why I'm a stand against

Forte. I don't think Forte has made a

huge jump from his two year old to three-year old season, and a

lot of horses don't. And some horses, it takes them

3/4 of the way into their three-year old year to really

hit their good stride. So that when you're

handicapping, you have to be aware of that or who's on an

upward trend, who's kind of trending treading water as you

do your handicapping. Well, there you go.

I could not agree more. It's interesting though to

watch, you know Chad Brown, man, he just knows where to spot his

horses at Saratoga. This was definitely one of those

spots, Zach. Let's go ahead and get to the

next one. This will be the Lake Placid

technical analysis. Speaking of Chad Brown and

three-year old Phillies gets it done here as well.

Iliogami and Lovestruck, they are at the top of the stretch.

Technical analysis went wide there on the turn, but is

holding on to the lead now. Runaway rumor, Ego trip.

Iliogami. They're all giving chase to

technical analysis. Who is still in front.

Technical analysis by 2 1/2 lengths, then ego trip and out

on the inside is runaway rumor. It's going to be technical

analysis with a frontrunning victory in the Lake Placid

stakes. You know Dan and and we want to

thank Nyra's got a great YouTube page if you ever want to go back

and watch replays. Very, very easy to navigate

there, just searching Google or whatever and just get all the

replays there at NYRA they do a great job of making those very

easy to search and very easy to follow.

My sense, Dan this year is that the the three-year old male

class on the dirt is better than the three-year old Philly class

on the dirt. Now I actually don't think this

was the best example of the three-year old Phillies in a

single race together. We've had other races, maybe a

Keenelander at Churchill even earlier this year that were

better Belmont as well. Where are you on this class?

Do you think that a technical analysis, for example, could

grow up to be a fine mayor and and win a bunch of races?

Yeah, I I really do. Because, you know, it's Chad

Brown and Chad. Dad can train anything, but if I

had a really good grass horse Louie, I'd I'd ask Chad if he

could take it for me because he he just sells in those kinds of

races and and and and that's stable.

I I know Mike Ryan, a famous blood horse agent.

Picks out a lot of their horses, and they have had unbelievable

success giving those kinds of horses to Chad Brown to run on

the grass. So yeah, you know that she's

just getting started. I think the Sky's the limit for

this Philly. There you go.

Well, I'll be interesting to watch the rest of her career as

well, especially as my, as Dan mentions out of that brown barn

and so will be likely running in lots of grass stuff on the East

Coast. And so there you go.

Maybe a future Breeders' Cup horse who knows and a set though

out West and we had John Lindo on our our show on ESPN

Louisville came on and said she's absolutely going to be the

favorite and she should be turned out that she she was and

underneath better Reese believe here for that ride out at Delmar

goes ahead and wins the Delmar Oaks at a mile and eight.

The grade one there as well and she's the five horse here.

If you are joining us on the video stream here, you can

always do that. By the way, at Spotify we always

had that video up. You could find us as well on

Twitch, on Twitter and if you are listening say on your Apple,

you could find us as well on YouTube.

Go ahead Zach and play the rest of this one.

See Anna set has started picking off the back markers and a set

making headway, now only five off the leaders.

They come to the top of the lane.

Ruby now is the leader and a set goes for a run at the rail and

it's a dream run and Anna set bursts through on the inside,

takes the lead and kicks for home.

And it's going to be Anna set. Perfectly written by Umberto

Rismley to win the Delmarro close then for second beat.

I I've noticed this more and more this summer Dan that that

that Trevor Denman who calls the races out of Delmar is still

very much on his game because a couple of a couple of weeks ago

Senor Buscador won the Bing Crosby right and or not the big

Crosby won the two turn race out there.

I'm sorry the chosen Fron won the Bing Crosby, but he's

watching and he sees Senor Buscador make a turn, a run on

the turn and he goes and Senor Proscador really picking up the

strides. I did this race, he says.

And Anna sets really starting to pick off some horses and then

she gets that dream up the up the rail like you mentioned.

See, I I think that's why Trevor Denman is as good as anybody who

has ever done really, because you're absolutely right.

He has that amazing ability to pick up horses, even going into

the far turn that. Like they're full of run and and

can make an impact on the outcome of the game of the race.

And he's he's, he's one of the best that's ever held a mic, I

think. Have you been to a horse race in

South Africa, his native country?

I have not. OK, yeah.

I I have to say though, every time I see the Delmar Oaks, I

want to cry because we had a Philly years and years ago.

Philly by the name of secretarial queen.

And of course the the Delmar Oaks is on the grass and she was

she was a dirt, a dirt Philly being by Secretariat.

And and Bill Shoemaker wrote her in her prep race and she was 20

lengths out of it and came it was a mile in the 16th she came

running, finished third, got beat a couple of lengths.

The Delmar Oaks is a mile in an eighth.

We thought, man, this is right in her wheelhouse and the

instructions to the jock were she just take her out of it, let

her fall out of it and and she'll come running at the end.

And I guess the jock thought he knew better than than the

trainer did, because going into the first turn, he had her five

lengths off the lead and she was 5 lengths off the lead at the

beginning and she was 5 lengths off the lead at the end.

Oh, there you go. Yeah, I'm not a yeah, it's

interesting too. Do you have a do you have much

of us say at all about Delmar, for example, running the oaks on

grass as opposed to some of the other oaks we see on dirt?

Do you have much of opinion about that or is that just track

to track for you? No, no, I mean that's it's their

race, it's one of their signature races and run it on

whatever surface. I I think 3 year old Philly

races that are called the Oaks ought to be run on the dirt.

But that's the Delmar doesn't agree with me.

You just learned Dan is not part of the controlling interest of

Delmar Now Anisette wins the race.

Dan I think horse you know players can look at that race a

couple of different ways. You can say oh she got a dream

trip. I'm fading her next time I think

a way that I use usually look at these races Dan is she made her

trip to me. I I I tend to give horses credit

for making their trip rather than saying, oh, they just got

lucky, the rail opened up. Whatever it is, you still got to

have the kick to win by that many legs.

Yeah, no, there's, I mean she she was, she did get the break

of coming up the rail and it was a great ride.

But I I think if had she had to go around all of them, she still

would have won the race. I feel good for him better

recently by the way we, I interviewed him, Dan, right

before you and I started our show last year on on 680 because

he was moving to Kentucky, he decided to move his tack to

Kentucky. He had a new baby, the whole

thing, and he had picked up and he had moved to Kentucky.

And I said, hey man, what's the contingencies plan if it doesn't

work out? He was like, what do you mean?

I was like, oh, OK all right. Love the confidence, brother

Kim. Yeah, go get it.

And so it's good to see him back in his, his more natural

environs picking off great ones under horses like Anna said.

So thanks to Delmar as well. We found that on their YouTube

page as well, good YouTube page, easy to use there as well in our

second segment today as it always is presented by the

Maryland Horse Breeders Association and you can find

them on Twitter on, I mean online.

They're all over the place and they're getting ready for the

Maryland million day. Dan, have you how many times

you've been to the Maryland million?

I haven't been to the Maryland million.

I've been, I've been to law. It's that Laurel, right?

It is at Laurel. The Laurel a number of times,

but I've never been there for the for the Maryland million.

Got it. Well, they want to remind you

that it's October 14th, it's 38th rendition of the Jim McKay

Maryland million. It's a showcase of all of

Maryland's finest in the thoroughbred industry.

Stay updated on their contenders with weekly show Maryland

Million, Watch and learn about sponsorship opportunities and

you can even purchase one of their ever popular club tables

and more. They'll see you at the Million

marylandmillion.com. I found out today, Dan, that if

we want to, the show could be involved in the Maryland

Million. But so here's, so here's, here's

my dilemma. And I wanted to, I wanted to get

your advice on this because you were a man who, for work,

because of basketball, had to travel a lot, right.

A lot. A lot.

And your wife, she's still a little bitter about it.

Whatever. So.

Oh no. She was very happy.

She's very happy that I traveled.

Get you out of the house 3 weeks before our trip to LA though.

For Breeders' Cup is the Maryland million.

Am I cutting it too close, making two horse trips in three

weeks? No, no.

You're the king of your castle, Louie.

I think you, the king of the castle, lie to God, and all

these witnesses is not his Danissel.

I like it. All right, his castle.

Do you mean the basement room that he's currently in?

Because that's the castle, that's the studio.

That's it, baby. I'm going to paint that wall

sometime in 2029. I think it'll look great.

All right, well, let's get to it.

It is horse racing, 101 Dan. We try to in this segment

introduce our listeners. So one of the things that we got

really fortunate with Dan is we have, we have a base of people

who came into the sport listening to our podcast.

And that's a really great honor for us that people got to know

the sport through this show because Mike and I are very

normal dudes doing this show and and are around horse racing.

Now we're a little bit more in it, but, you know, for many

years we're just around it. And I wanted to ask you about

horse ownership. Now, your route, of course, a

little bit different because you may have different means than

the average person who's listening to this show.

But why did you get into horse ownership?

You know, cuz you, you know, use me, for example, you know, I'm

in my early 40s. I've got some kids, you know, I

could afford to get into horse ownership.

But I, you know, at this point I've chosen not to.

What would you say to someone like me?

Well, I think first of all, Lou, you have to decide.

And you can do both, but you have to decide do you want to

race or do you want to breed. And what we, what I've always

been involved in now we've we've raced as I just said we had

secretary of Queen that we raced but it the ultimate goal was to

have a secretary at Broodmare had very good breeding and we

were able to accomplish that. So do you want to race or do you

want or or or do you want to be in the breeding business?

We have, for the most part, always been in the breeding

business. And and so you can you can play

in that game at at any level. I mean you can breed to a horse

that stands for $5000 or you know you can $2000 to breed the

flight line or or 250,000 to breed the end dimensions what

whatever level you can afford to to play at.

But it it's I I will say this it it it is a very rewarding.

Business to be in. There are many more downs than

there are ups and you you have to know that going in.

You have to be able to say, well you know, I'm going to have a

foal that's crooked that I won't be able to give away or a foal

that can't outrun me and you, but it it's so rewarding and.

And and you know, you don't have to, you don't have to be really

wealthy to play it at any level. There are many multiple

ownership racing clubs out there now.

And you know if like I said, if you want to get in for $10,000

to buy a broodmare that's in full, you can certainly do that.

But I I found it very rewarding. We've had a lot of fun being

involved in the horse business and I will say this.

If you ever own a racehorse and you stand in the winner circle

when your horse finishes first, that's a feeling that will never

go away. It'll be in your blood forever.

Well, there you go. He's Danisl, a horse owner.

Not currently, but in the past. And that again is Horse Racing

101 presented by our friends at Maryland Thoroughbreds, the

Maryland Horse Breeders Association.

You can check them out. Maryland thoroughbred.com and of

course, marylandmillion.com. October 14th.

So all right, Zach, I might have you fly to DC I'm just warning

you, it might be a thing. I'm not happy about it.

This will tell me. I got to go.

I don't say no to Dan. This will.

It is what it is. Well, I do, but 11:50, not

outside of that. All right, let's, let's get into

it though. Dan, third segment here.

We got a cool card like you mentioned five grade ones at

Saratoga on Saturday. There is an all stakes pick four

starting with the the ninth race.

If you wanted to play that there is an all stakes pick five as

well associated with that. Before that though Dan is the

7th race the four go and I didn't put this on your on your

sheet, but it's the Gunite Elite power match up again is there?

It looks like Elite Power just runs this horse down all the

time, and it seems to not matter how fast Gunite runs, it just

seems to always dip them right at the wire.

He and Irad really have a great relationship that way.

Is there a chance that gun I can actually turn the tables here?

Well, there's a chance. I mean the last race it was on

an off track, which I don't think helped elite power at all,

especially having to come from out of it.

I mean, there's a chance if if gun I at some point in the race.

Is able to separate himself enough.

Steve Asmussen has a great knack of having these horses ready for

big days. So if I was going to pick play

the pick five, I would use both of them, simply because I hate

to be out of a pick five after the first race.

So I would, I would get skinny someplace else and I would use

both of them if I was playing the pick five.

But you know, if you're watching your budget, I think elite power

wins the race. That is race 7, the forego that

is, start of the $1.00, pick six there at Saratoga.

Unfortunately, Dan and I don't know anyone who's ever had any

success with that wager. All right, so that's a joke for

the like. A couple 1000 people listening

that absolutely get that joke. All right, great.

So let's go on to later in the card.

We're talking that late that all stakes pick four or the late

pick five. It's Race 9.

It's the Allen Jerkins memorial. You and Allen Jerkins were

called roommates, right? No, I I think I was a couple

years ahead of Allen. You.

Were Allen Jerkins memorial? It is a grade one at 7 for lungs

on the dirt for three-year olds. So this is the Derby if you're

going one turn, half million bucks on the line here, Dan, we

see verifying in the spot and and I have in my notes, man, I

think this is a really good idea for verifying.

I just don't know if he's of the class of the three horses on the

outside of him. Where did you fall on this one?

Yeah I I thought this was a pretty competitive race maybe

maybe the most competitive of the five grade ones you have

verifying who was on the Derby trail for Brad Cox and by the

way Brad will be joining our show tomorrow at going to talk

about about these horses but but going 7 furlongs, I I like the

turn back for him but man are there some talented horses in

here Louie I mean bafford has Fort Bragg and Arabian Lion who

won their last starts very impressively.

What do you do with New York Thunder I?

Agree with you. Here's the horse.

Here's a horse that his first three start.

He's undefeated in four starts. His first three starts were

either on the synthetic or or the OR the grass and they they

put him on the dirt and what an impressive performance.

He goes six and a half. First of all he runs the first

quarter in 21 and two and and he runs the 6 1/2 furlongs in 114

and three gets 110 buyer if he doesn't bounce off of that right

the the all the rest of these horses are running for 2nd place

but to to run that fast just a month ago.

I don't know if he can, if he can duplicate that race or not.

We're head Delgado. Second off.

The layoff here, which is what this horse was came back First

off the layoff of the Amsterdam exploded out with Tyler Gaffe

Leone who keeps them out here. As Dan mentioned in the

Amsterdam AT at Saratoga comes back.

Same track here people, just 1/2 for a long longer.

Ran an absolutely blistering 2143107 Dan 114 at the end.

Just absolute blistering. That is a winning.

That is a winning time in any level of competition.

If the race had been 6 furlongs, he would have broken the track

record. Yep, that.

No question. Heaven and a piece would have

broken Saratoga's track record for six furlongs.

Yeah, and like Dan mentioned has won over the synthetic breaking

his maiden in the in the crappy part of the season at

Gulfstream. Comes back against winners for

the first time. Wins over a turf Sprint in his

shortest win ever at over a / a length.

Comes back, tries the the synthetic up at Woodbine.

They ship him to New York at Saratoga.

He wins again. So just one of these horses.

Dan just loves to win and I totally agree that you have to

include him here. Interested to see between

Arabian Line and Fort Bragg. Where do you think you would

lean? I I would probably go to Arabian

Lion. I I think the Seven Furlongs

hits him right between the eyes. Fort Bragg might want, might be

better at a mile, maybe even a little further.

But they're two very talented horses.

But I think of the two of those two, I would have to side with

Arabian Lion. I would say I do think verifying

is a little out of depth here. I don't think he's on the class

of some of these. These other horses, Fort Bragg,

frankly, the the, the performance from New York

Thunder last time that you talked about, he's not on that

level, he's not on an Arabian lion level.

But if those three get out front and they go a little bit too

quickly, he's the horse in this field and that could pick up the

pieces under Flavia and Pratt if he gets the right ride there.

So interested to see how that one goes as well.

We should mention Luis Sayez, obviously injured the other day,

excuse me, in an accident. Is not going to be on one of

Vermillion. I don't have the you know what I

say that I can get the update for who who he's going to be on

in that race but he will not be on one of Vermillion.

He also will be not be on mage in the Travers.

So we'll update those as we go. But yeah I think it's verifying

they can pick up the pieces here.

Dan, I'm interested to see because you know, here's where,

here's where it's hard for me is he, He wins the Indiana Derby,

but that's not, you know, that's not this field.

I mean the three horses outside of him in this field are better

than anyway he ran against in Indiana and so but does he

benefit from cutting back in distance because I think this is

the right move for him. I think he's a oneturn horse and

I think they're doing right by the horse here.

I just I'll be interested to see if he's able to get a frenetic

pace out front and and this time for some reason New York Thunder

doesn't just keep it going and he's able to make hay and and at

least get a check in this one the the next race is the

ballerina. And it is race 10.

It's the lake. Pick four is here. 7 furlongs on

the dirt. But this was for fillion mares 3

and up. It's half million bucks again.

Man. Echo Zoo losing here Dan.

And when she came off the bench this year at the end of May at

Churchill and she ran the winning colors in sub one O 9, I

thought, OK, she's she's off the bench and ready to go.

Follows it up with a win in the Honorable Miss at Saratoga at

six furlongs as well beating Doctor B Who's in this field.

By 7 and one quarters length they have good night.

All of listed in this race is 9 to 5 Dan.

I got to be honest, I'm leaning on Kazulu and all of my all of

my tickets here. You talked earlier about you

know the two horses early on and trying to find a single later.

This is where I would find my single and it would be with that

Kazulu who seems by the way 3 for three at the track seems to

really love Saratoga. Yeah, yeah.

And that's that's what I was going to bring up.

She now she's a she's a four year old midnight.

Good night. Olive is a 5 year old and good

night. Olive was a sprinting Champlain,

but if you go back and watch that honorable Miss Louie that

that was spectacular. I think that's the most

impressive performance that we've seen at Saratoga this

summer. I mean she was under wraps the

the the last 16th of a mile and still got a 112 buyer figure.

I I I said earlier about Steve Asmussen and his ability to get

these horses ready for the big race.

I mean she can regress and still win this race easily.

So I I agree with you, I I think EZ is is a single in all your

all of your horizontal races. It'll be interesting to watch

her in the path they take from here.

If they train up to the Breeders Cup with her, or if they involve

her in one more race before then, either a Keeneland or a

Churchill down, something like that.

But we will have to wait and see.

I'm also interested here, Dan, who's that third horse in this

group. I think there are a couple

horses getting. A little less attention just

because of their last race. Mata Ray is one of them, of

course, in the Chicago last out. As part of that Churchill

meeting at Ellis Park, they've given her a little bit of time

off here in the Brad Cox barn. Interested.

We'll talk to him tomorrow. We'll put that out in the pod,

the pod platform as well, so people won't have to.

If you can't TuneIn in the morning, you'll be able to hear

that one. Wicked halo's an interesting

entry here, Dan, because the horses run four times this year

and she's hit the board. All of them.

Speaking of daughters, a daughter of gunrunner who's a

progeny or not doing too poorly, but she's picked off over

$400,000 in purses this year, 2 for two at Saratoga.

I don't think she's in the class with Echo Zullo.

I want to be really clear, but I think at 8:00 to 1:00 she could

be a sneaky horse to come up and finish second, for example, and

get you a lot of money on the exact side of things and on the

outside caramel swirl for Bill Mott.

Junior Alvarado is an interesting one for me.

Has won this year in the vacancy at Belmont.

Runs against Good Night Olive and finishes one length back.

Interested to see if she's off the layoff a little bit here.

Bill Mott's horses off a slight freshening hit at 24%.

Interested to see if she can do something on Saturday from that

eight post there. I went 6-7 and five here in the

ballerina. Let's go to the Sword Dancer and

Dan if we had a sponsor. Dan and I do this a lot on the

radio show, if I had someone sponsoring this segment.

This would be my Detroit Lions of the horse racing thing, where

I read I have spent at least an hour on the past performances

and watching replays trying to figure out who's going to win

this race down. And you're about and here we go.

You're about to tell me there's one horse and it's a single and

I'm going to throw my hands up and not understand it at all,

but I'm going to listen. Who wins?

The sword dancer? No, I I I agree with.

Oh, OK. Thank God we just singled.

EZ, we can go deep here now. I I think if you held a gun to

my head and said pick a winner it have to be Stone Age because

Stone Age hasn't run since February.

So it looks to me with with his works it looks like he's been in

Chad Brown's barn for a for a while this summer and Chad Brown

is is 30% off of this much of A layoff.

He's 26% with Flavia and Pratt. And so I would have to say that

is who I would pick as a winner. But I think there's a number of

horses in here, Louie, that, that you could give a shot of

Bolshoi ballet coming over from Europe is no slouch.

The one horse is it right? Soldier Rising.

Yeah, yeah, is has got a shot. Don't you love a horse Like

English Channel? That not not English Channel.

What's? The channel maker, yeah, channel

maker. Then the nine year old that is

started over 50 times in his career and was won almost $4

million and he seems to be running as good as he ever has.

So no, I agree with you. I I think, I think this race is

wide open Stone Age. I give the the edge to Stone

Age, but it wouldn't surprise me if three or four different

horses didn't win this race. I'm fascinated by the five

pioneer pioneering spirit in here, Dan.

This is a horse that's never run in a stakes race coming out of

the Linda Rice barn. She is on absolute fire right

now. 103 starts, 24 wins, 25 seconds.

I mean, she's just peppering the board this year.

I read jumps in the saddle here because Jose Ortiz is off of him

and is riding. Oh my gosh, I think it's the

one. Soldier rising.

Yeah, Yeah. And so, you know, just an

interesting change in Jock I think for a positive frankly.

A son of of American Pharaoh. He's four years old, seems to be

figuring it out. Has won four in a row and they,

they're increasing the length on him over and over.

So he goes a mile, then a mile and an eighth, a mile and a

quarter, tries a mile and 3/8. It really is almost as though.

Linda Rice knew back in May that she wanted to try this horse in

this race, interested to see if he likes the distance.

We watched Pharaoh go gay to wire in the Belmont.

I don't know why his kid couldn't go gay to wire in this

one, but he's a closer. And the only horse then that

that is I think going to inherit the lead here is Channel Maker.

And I think that's one of the reasons they kept Manny Freiko

aboard is because in that Bowling Green in the grade two

last out at Saratoga they they went a different tact with this

horse than they usually do. And he was able to get out front

and just stay out front with their stopping behind him.

I think that's one of those horses here.

By the way, Dan, would you be shocked if they're stopping

picked off this race? Because I wouldn't.

We watched him do it in the Elkhorn of Keeneland, right?

And so that wouldn't surprise me.

Declan Cannon flies into fly to ride this guy.

They were second in the Bowling Green last time, and I don't

think they were ever catching Channel Maker in that one.

But if the fractions are even a touch faster, I think there's a

great shot for Ver stopping to win here.

What do you think? Because I have this in my notes,

Dan, the Three Bolshoi Ballet who you brought up, who shipping

over Aidan O'Brien sending in that he's using an American jock

in Johnny Velasquez or an American based jock, I should

say in Johnny Velasquez as opposed to a Ryan Moore.

Someone like that. Does that, does that.

Is that a clue to you at all or do you think that's just who's

available? Yeah, I would have to go back.

You know they're running at York right now in England and and and

they have some really big races over there.

So I would, I'd have to look and see if if it made more sense for

more to stay home Adrian's horses back there.

But no that doesn't. In fact, I might like Johnny

Velasquez a little. Bit No.

Fair enough. Yeah.

No, I don't think that's ridiculous.

He's already picked off 8 races at at Saratoga this year.

It's not his full time gig either.

So good to see. Him picking off some races.

I don't know who I would land on on top here.

I'll be really honest because I don't Stone Age.

I just don't know how to figure out except that it's Chad Brown

and I trust him to figure it out in these spots right.

I mean that's literally the reason I'm not I'm not looking

at numbers. I'm not looking at performances.

He was. I mean if I went by this that

horse was terrible and Doha last out in the emir trophy but

they're trying for a two and a half million dollar purse.

So I don't I'm not mad at the horse.

Horse is 2 for 15 lifetime and it's 6 to 5 and that's because

of the connections and and look. If Stone Age comes flying around

the bend and and Flavians on there and they're just good to

go. It won't be shocking.

But man, I cannot figure this race out and I apologize to

everyone listening for my lack of ability to make it up.

All right, let's go to the the let's go to Saratoga's Derby.

It's called the Traverse. It's grade one mile and a

quarter classic distance here for three-year olds.

On the dirt of course it is $1.25 million.

Dan, do you remember the year that it was $1.6 million?

I do not. That was to entice American

Pharaoh to run in the Travers. What happened to American

Pharaoh in the Travers? He got beat by ice.

Badly. He.

Frankly, that's as bad as I've ever seen one of the great

horses ever. Look, was a loss to keen ice in

that race. Dan, can you can you name the

horse that ran the fastest traverse ever?

As soon as I say it, you'll go, OK, that makes sense.

It's actually the track record. It is Eric Gate.

How about the NSL? There you go.

Eric Gate broke the track record sub two-minute classic distance

buck 59159 and one which is an incredible time 14 lengths.

Did he not, Louie? 1000 lengths.

Yeah, by it, says one. No one had a chance.

That was his absolute coming. Out party.

That horse was a monster after that man.

The last winners of this race of course.

EPICENTER last year who went on to be 3 year old male of the

year showing the traverses importance because modern games

had a better year. Not that I'm an eclipse voter

and I'm still mad about it but whatever.

Better quality the year before and then tis the law the year

before that. So frankly Dan we've had three

straight I if not favorites. Very close to favorites win this

race. You you're telling me you're

going to try to beat the favorite this year.

Tell me why I I'm going to try to beat him for several reasons.

Now he's 2 for two on and off track.

He his the last time out in the gym dandy.

He should have been taken down. I don't.

I don't know what the stewards in New York are looking at.

That wasn't the only race that they have really screwed up but

he should have been taken down. But he he did.

He wasn't anyone and he ran 105 buyers in the slop.

That is the highest fire that he has had since he won the

Breeders Cup. 2 year old champion.

I I don't think, I don't think that Forte has has developed as

much as you would like to see from his two year old year to

his three-year old year. Now he he's he's very talented

and he's 7 to 5 for a reason. But I think there are other

horses in this race, Lily, that are coming out and are peaking

and are better right now at this point than is Forte.

Well, very good. I'll go.

Ahead and name one of those horses for us, Dan, as we want

to give people a couple of litters on Saturday.

You know, I picked Mage to win the Derby.

I'm not getting off now. I think if you look at his P P's

in his only his third race, the Florida Derby, he broke poorly.

He made a premature move and then was caught by Forte in the

Florida Derby. I thought his Derby was was

spectacular and Mike the Moocher still owes me a lunch because of

that and then you look going forward from there.

He had no pace to run into everybody before the Preakness,

said National Treasures. Just going to jog around there

on the link. That's exactly what he did and

he'd been off for two months. I thought he ran Well there go

rocket ride Louie I know we're talking about 3 classic winners

here plus the two year old champion Forte go rocket ride

might be the best 3 year old in the country right.

And he won the Haskell and Mays ran say I think they've been

pointing for this race. I I think the mile and a

quarters right in his wheelhouse.

I don't mind that Pratt is substituting for for Louie who

is substituting for for Haslano so that that I hope I get that

four to one that he is on the morning line.

I think that would be very, very juicy we had.

On Man and Zach, if you remember his name off top of your head

from From the Covering the Haskell.

Let me see if I can find. Not his name.

I think his name is Brian and from from Monmouth actually on

he told us before the race Don't bet mage.

He's not geared up for this one. And they came around that corner

and that horse looked darn gay. He looked pretty damn good to me

and he ended up not winning. Of course.

Go rock and ride. Put it all together that day for

sure. And you're right.

If that's his regular form going forward, Dan he's got a shot not

only in the Pacific Classic but in other races in his future for

sure. And so I I'm with you on that.

I I don't know. You're not going to get any

pushback from me on that. I do think that the the the

essential Rd. here was hey let's let's get two races in let's use

the Haskell as a prep for the the traverse and I do agree with

you he's going to have a very good race And I I also agree

with you the move to Flavia Pride is not a bad one.

There's one that it's not a negative at all and so

interested to see him here I think he's.

I did this with wet paint last week.

Page is a better. I don't know, Page is a good

horse. I think the distance is great

for him. I think he's going to love a

mile and a quarter. I think he's absolutely going to

eat it up. Another horse that I really

trust here is Arkangelo. I think that the again, I think

the distance is going to be great.

I think he's the kind of horse that is going to be, if not on

the front, he'll be right behind National Treasure.

Dan and I think he's got a real shot.

Are we moving on from tap at Trice?

Or have we already moved on from Tappit Rice?

I I've moved on. From him he's he's a he's an

unbelievably talented horse. He was 1,000,003 yearling.

He's by Tappit out of an outstanding mayor and and he's a

Grade 1 winner. He won the Blue Grade 1 winner.

But he's to me, he he's just a big old goofy horse.

If he ever puts it together, he'll be really something.

But he hasn't put it together yet.

He's the kind of horse I could see not being great on the track

but being really good the breeding shed, just because of

who he is right. How he's cut and if he has a

couple of of more mature progeny you know kids and and I think

they could be really effective. Man.

Do you give Disarm much of a shot here Dan he, you know we

interviewed Asmas and before the the Preakness and he said to us,

yeah, I just don't think there's enough distance in this race for

my horse to catch up and he could not have been.

Oh no that was a different horse.

What am I doing with disarm. I'm sorry.

I'm flipping horses here in the Asmas and barn.

Disarm comes out of the the slop in the gym.

Dandy comes out of the slop in the mat win, which he did win.

I went back and watched the Kentucky Derby today.

He was really good, the Kentucky Derby as well, but those were

unbelievable fractions. We're slowing way down in these

last two races and he's still competitive.

Beats verifying in that in that Matt win as part of the Ellis

Park hosting the the Churchill meet there.

Do you give him much of a chance here or do you think he's a

little outclassed? I I don't know.

Louie he's he always seems to be the wise guy horse he he.

One that you know everybody thinks well you get you get 7 or

8 or 9 to one on him and he's he's worth the he's the value

play. I I've never understood that I

find no value in throwing tickets on the floor and so I I

I just know I I would rate I would rate this race.

I would say Mays is my first pick.

Arcangelo's my second pick and Forte is my third pick.

I I I think if there's a horse that has a chance to hit the

board it's not it. It's not disarm it's it's

Scotland. I I think he's the if you're

looking for somebody that's going to be in that 8 to 10

range, I think that's your horse.

The interesting thing about Scotland Who's the seven horse

here? Bill Mott?

Junior Alvarado is he's got the he's got all of the making stand

of what Saudi crown did last out in that Jim Dandy where we kind

of don't know if he's going to have enough he's got the buyer

numbers got a 99 last out he goes two turns for the first

time at Saratoga in the Curlin so listed stakes he wins by open

open links by the way il Moroccolo who he beat last time

out just came back and won this week right in Pennsylvania and

so I I'm interested was. That a good race or not because

the first time you go two turns, they've really again they you

know Bill Mott's built this horse up, you know, in a way

that we've seen in other races. 7 for a long 7A mile mile and an

eighth, going two turns. Now we're going the classic

distance. You know good magic.

His dad he's got, you know he's got the he's got the breeding

for it. Interested to see if he's one of

these horses that we catch once in a while in the travelers that

is a late bloomer, right. It wasn't ready in the spring,

but you know, perhaps it has a chance to develop later on.

Do you care at all if a three-year old is running in one

of these races and has been gelded?

No. No because because I think you

know that's that's the last resort and and if I found that

gelding a horse either helps him.

Or doesn't make any difference. I've.

I've never seen a horse that has been gelded that runs worse.

So you know they've decided we're not getting the best out

of this horse. Let's make this ultimate

equipment change. This is equipment removal if you

will. This is an LNJ Foxwood's home

bread here of course and so I did not run as a 2 year old, was

gelded as a 2 year old, did have the bullet for four long workout

the other day on the 20th so four days ago at Saratoga.

So interested to see him. I agree with Dan that he is an

absolute possibility to upset the apple cart as far as the

exact is perhaps the trifectas as well.

Who is the horse in here that you would be stunned if they won

the race? I think we already talked about.

I think tap it, tap it, price, that's.

I would really be surprised if he won me.

It's it is national treasure. I would be really surprised if

they let that horse dog walk a slow pace on the front.

I don't think that's happening in this race, that's.

The one I would be most surprised at all, right.

So people are probably wondering, where the hell is

Gandolfo Louise talking A lot. Good question, loyal listeners.

So my man is in Phoenix right now at a cigar bar, Dan and I'm

getting things together before the show.

And I see that he's on the show sheet.

This is something Dan hates, by the way, that you can know that

another person's on the show sheet.

And so I call Mike and I'm like, hey, what's going on?

He goes, yeah, yeah, I'm on the show sheet.

I'm ready to go. And I'm like, Louie's not in the

mood. We're not doing that.

We're not doing the. You're having fun and I'm not.

We're not doing that. So we can't double off at a

cigar bar. When is the last time you were

in a cigar bar? I never.

Yeah. How bad would the bet have to be

for you to go to a cigar bar? I wouldn't.

Somebody can be? Smoking a cigar two blocks away

and I can taste it. I no, no, thank you, Dan.

I did get the e-mail today from the Breeders Cup asking for us

to turn in our credentials. Do you want to come to Los

Angeles with us? Absolutely.

All right. OK.

I'll be there. All right.

I was thinking about credentialing your wife and not

you. Is that OK?

No, that's fine as long as you. Get us both the table.

We'll be You can have her on the show all you.

Pics with Sherry. Let's go.

I like it. She's.

Actually, a better handicapper than I am Louise, so you might

want to have her on the show. I imagine she'd be like, OK, you

know, I've been to Scotland, let's, let's, let's use Scotland

in the Travers And then it it wins.

No problem, you know, 3 lengths or whatever.

My wife is like this too. I remember very vividly we're at

Churchill and we're there on a Sunday.

I think her parents were actually with us.

I think Julian Leparoo won six races that Sunday, like just had

one of those days and I'm like, hey, can you pick a horse And

the next day she's like, yeah, I don't really want to gamble.

It's not really my thing. I'm like, no, no, hang on, let's

look. And she goes, poyo pico.

Is that spicy chicken? I don't know.

Yeah, that means spicy chicken. She goes, that's my horse 7 to 1

Dan for fun and I mean for fun. That horse like no question

about it, just ran well, I. I have a story I I know exactly

when. The last time was I told Sherry

what horse to bet on. It was.

It was April of 1970. We were at the.

Bluegrass, we were. We were still students at UK,

We're at the Blue Press and she wanted to bet dust commander and

of course you know we didn't have two nickels to rub together

so she is betting 2 bucks. I said the top night was the two

year old champion, huge favorite.

I said honey, don't don't bet that horse to win.

If you like him, bet show well. He runs first, pays 70 some

dollars to win top night. The huge favorite one runs

second. She gets 4 bucks for her show

ticket. So told her what horse to bet

on. Please, Dan Issel.

You can't find him on Twitter because he's not going to

respond to you. But you should listen to a show

in the morning. Issel and Louie on ESPN680 in

Louisville. And of course you can catch him

on here a couple of times a year.

Dan, I won't bother you again till Brutus Cup.

I promise I I. Appreciate it.

You can bother me anytime. I have a great time.

Thanks to Louie. Have a good night.

We'll see you, buddy. All right, Dan in the morning.

Have to do that every day. Don't tell him.

You can let him go, Zach. Well, there we go.

All right. Well, Zach, if you want to jump

on to get anything you want to say to me, do we need to talk

Marilyn million right now on the air or should we do that after?

I don't even know. Let's.

Talk it right now. Tell me, Louie, who's your pick?

For the Marilyn million, it's me.

I just Yeah, right. I just know Mike's not going.

Because he can't like convince himself it's you know I OK, so

our guy Mike, who will never listen to this episode if you,

if I gave you one guess, who is he with at a cigar bar in

Phoenix. Who is he with?

Jose Ortiz. No think.

No think Think. Preakness, the owner of Mage, no

other other real estate agents. I mean, Mike needs friends and

he doesn't have them, so he just hangs out with.

He just hangs out with other real estate agents.

And so if Michael, Mike is with his on.

Mike is with his real estate friend.

Yeah, his club. His club, that's right.

His tribe, if you will. He flew out to LA yesterday, saw

the double header between the Angels and the Reds, and then

flew to Phoenix tonight to watch the Reds play the Diamondbacks

because he had a bunch of he had mileage that was going to expire

on his, his airline numbers, and so he had to use him.

So he decided how to catch the Red game while they're out.

There's a lot of traveling in in.

One like small space baseball games.

That's a lot, yes. And so he's out doing that, but

we'll get him back next week ahead of some of races that get

closer to the Breeders company and I think we're going to have

a lot clearer picture on the next couple of weeks here

especially we'll start with like when Mike's here I.

Can't make fun of damn the same way I can make fun of Mike.

Yeah, I get it for sure. So, but all right, well, Marilyn

Million, we're, we're thinking about it.

I got the brochure today, man. That sounds great a little.

Bit. I mean, just a booth at a booth

at Laurel. We'll see what happens, but this

has been the horse racing happy hour.

Lurebo producer Zach, we want to thank our guy Dannis so you can

find us on Twitter at Horse Happy Hour.

We do go live on Twitch and on Twitter every Thursday night and

you can watch this video on Spotify for free as part of

their app as well. If you subscribe to Spotify, we

are a no cost, a no ad show on there.

We want to take Marilyn Thurbrough for hanging out with

us as well. Zach, go ahead and play the

music. We'll get out of here.

Let's talk to next week here on the horse racing.