Ellis Park Preview | Romans, Hancock, Kerstein

You're listening to Rabo and Co here on ESPN 680 and 105.7.

Here's Louis Roubo. Welcome back in 11:00 hour to

Hump Day Wednesday edition of the program.

Our Ellis Park preview starts now and get ready to start

racing down there tomorrow. Saturday through Monday will be

the schedule most of the summer. Intern Lucy sitting across from

me will make her first trip to Ellis Park for the Ellis Park

Debutante and for the juvenile this year.

Excited to get her involved with that.

But to do a kick off of the hour here, we bring in Kevin Kirsten

from over there at Churchill Downs and of course, during

summer at Ellis Park hanging out.

I already talked with Bailey, so I got that part out of the way.

Kevin, how are you, buddy? I'm doing well, Louis.

How you doing? I'm doing great.

I think we have to start with with with the coach talk about

Mr. Lucas and in his passing, obviously your colleague Darren

Rodgers and has been around him for a very, very long time.

And obviously you're a you're a barn rat.

You're a guy that likes to be out there in the morning.

So certainly, you know, Wayne Lucas was one of those guys we

all sort of just took for granted and assumed would be

around as long as we're involved in horse racing.

Just how, how's how have your last couple of weeks been with

all the news? You know, it's obviously been

tough and you know Wayne, there's no words to really do it

justice on what he's done for the sport of horse racing.

And so sport will never be the same without Wayne, but it'll

definitely, as we see in sire lines of horses and the

pedigrees that go back generations, those same work

ethics and the same skills that he's instilled in so many people

that have been around him, whether it be from hot walkers

all the way up to his former assistant trainers, will still

hold true to from years to come. And so obviously very difficult.

And but I know that Sebastian Nickel, who Bass is going to

take over the care of the barn, he's going to do it justice.

Bass has been Wayne's right hand man for the last couple of

decades. And there's so much that Bass

has done for Wayne. I mean, more recently with, you

know, going above and beyond as Wayne got up into the the years

in the late 80s. But I mean, Bass attention to

detail is just spot on. Like the the learning tree of

most of the Lucas assistants. And we saw that come to fruition

the other morning at Churchill Downs when there was a memorial

and a tribute to Wayne and his last set.

They sort of dubbed it as training as his pony went out

riderless with Wayne's yellow rain slick tied up in the back

and backwards cowboy boots as a salute to the the fallen cowboy

and and Wayne Lucas. So that was all bass and and

getting that together with Greg Blasey and the racing world

won't be the same without Wayne. I can, I just can't put it into

justice. Louis of words to describe his

impact on this sport. I'm sure we'll all call it the

Lucas Gap as long as we're doing this thing.

He's Kevin Kirsty and that horse racing KK on Twitter.

If you want to go follow them. He's part of the publicity team

over at Churchill Downs. Let's do this and let's be

uncomfortable for a second. Let's give the recent meet at

Churchill a letter grade. I want to be very, very positive

about this because Kevin, you know, I was one of the guys that

was not happy when the turf course wasn't going well.

I'm sure you were less happy than me.

And it looks as though the turf course has been largely figured

out on, you know, as far as your groundskeeper and and what works

and what doesn't as far as workouts.

It's nice to see, you know, the the turf course as part of the

work tab as well. But frankly, a really good Derby

weekend. That Churchill Downs race now

has turned out to be the race of consequence for the entire

spring. And certainly Stephen Foster Day

just ended up being a great day of racing.

I'll give you guys a solid a minus for the meet.

How did you feel it went A. Minus Wow, that's harsh, Louis,

that's. Because we could get.

Fans turned on in the Winter Circle suite for you last week.

Come on. It was a tremendous me and

obviously Derby really kicked started things and and you

mentioned it with the 7th grade one or the 9th grade ones and

just it's just so phenomenal the racing product in Kentucky and

and and it was obviously started with the Kentucky Derby and then

going all the way through the meet, the the maiden races to

the allowances to the claiming races to the closing weekend 11

stakes marathon. It was a tremendous meet all

around. And, and that action is going to

pick up here tomorrow at Ellis Park as we're seeing, you know,

all of the same jockeys and for the most part all of the same

trainers that you've seen on a regular basis at Churchill Downs

and all the same owners. They will be running horses at

Ellis Park, whether it be split divisions, whether it be their

main divisions. And it's just a product of what

the Kentucky racing product is these days.

It was a tremendous meet, a really fun closing weekend, but

so excited to kick things off in style at Ellis Park with the the

opening weekend cards. And that'll hold true the rest

of the meet. There's so many 2 year olds on

the backside of Churchill Downs that you never know what future

racing star you'll see the summer debut at Ellis Park.

We'll talk to Dale Romans next. And I was with him at Kentucky

Downs last year, so about 10 months ago, and he said

something like, yeah, I don't think I'm going to have to go to

Saratoga this year. I think Ellis is going to step

up the purses to a point where it's simply not worth it to take

the trip. Are you hearing those sorts of

things? And if people don't know, Ellis

Parks running maiden races for $100,000, there's $102,000

allowance on the card this weekend.

Once you factor in shipping and and staying in Saratoga and

doing all the things, frankly, financially it makes sense to

stay at Ellis. Are you hearing that from

horsemen as well? Oh, 100%.

And you know, the, the, to be a, a trainer or a jockey, it's just

such a nomadic way of living. And what the, the Kentucky bread

program has, you know, flourished here in Kentucky to

allow these people to do is keep Kentucky a year round home.

And so they don't have to live 8 months within the Bluegrass

State and then travel around for the, the additional four months.

And so everybody is just so thrilled to be able to just stay

at home, keep their house in Louisville or the surrounding

areas, and then be able to ship when need be to to different

circuits for some of the the bigger races.

And so it just allows them with those purse structures to be

able to be able to compete on a business level and not have to

go to different states. And so that's so important.

And Dale Romans, you know, he was one of the the key people of

getting the 2 year old program started at Ellis Park.

You can remember back, you know, several years ago with Dennis's

moment and, and getting those star powers and, and really

having the horses get started at Ellis Park rather than go face

some of those top connections at Saratoga.

And Dale was a big proponent of that.

And so it's just so exciting for everyone involved in horse

racing not to sort of have that nomadic way of living and and be

able to stay here in Kentucky year round.

You know, it's a fascinating dynamic that 2 year old program

and if people are listening and and sort of on the outside

looking in. In horse racing, 2 year olds are

are the first year that horses really get out on the track.

Not all of them, but most of them see their first action as 2

year olds in training, in racing and those sorts of things.

And I saw a a good tweet from Ed Derosa about asking where these

two year old champs come out of and there was some credit for

Ellis. Excuse me for Del Mar, but

between Churchill Downs and and Ellis, you're it's on par with

with Aqueduct and with with Saratoga, frankly same number of

of graded stakes winners to come out of the two year old programs

at that place. So frankly the the progress is

already well underway like you mentioned at Ellis Park there,

Kevin. And frankly, just adding to the

purses can only help. Yeah, absolutely.

And and we'll see that the entire 25 days this summer.

We saw it last year. E Avenue, Owen Almighty, two

names that we saw in Kentucky Derby 151.

They were at Ellis Park over the summer time and now you're

coupling in, you know, all of the, you know, major trainers

that will keep horses for the most part in Kentucky, Major

jockeys like Tyler Gafflione, who will be keeping his business

in Kentucky for the summertime as he returns off of injury.

It's just as a true statement of of what racing has to come.

And and then we're seeing it in the winter time at Turfway Park

too, albeit the the all weather surface.

So some of those, you know, top Dirt Classic prospects may not

show up at Turfway Park, but you're getting those horses,

those crossover horses, and they're making an impact on some

of the biggest races in Kentucky in the spring.

You've moved the schedule previously to Saturday through

Monday, attempting to run more of the stakes on Sundays.

Allow jockeys to get back and forth to different spots if they

happen to be, you know, not based at Ellis Park.

Have you gotten positive reviews on that?

It, it seems though, it's, it's for those exact reasons that

you're talking about because you know, with Saratoga and Del Mar,

we know they're going to have major races on Saturdays and,

and some, you know, the top tier grade ones this summertime.

And even for an example of the Indiana Derby on Saturday,

you're still able to come back and ride the, the Sunday card at

Ellis. So we're going to see those type

of examples all summer, whether it be the stakes at Saratoga or

Del Mar, allowing jockeys to be able to come back and ride

Sunday, Monday at Ellis. And one of those prime examples

last year didn't quite work out that way was E Avenue, Tyler

Gap. Leon was originally scheduled to

ride E Avenue and and Brennan ended up scratching him and

debuting him a week or so later. And so that's that's just the

prime one example of many of jockeys being able to ride both

circuits and and ship in town, especially for those major races

at Ellis Park on Kentucky Downs preview weekend or Ellis Park

Derby day, as you mentioned earlier in the the segment.

Yeah. So we're looking at, you know, 5

stakes here in July, but the stakes program really picks up

once we get to August, including the cut, the Kentucky Downs

preview weekend. I I have been very vocally

supportive of this arrangement. Frankly, we see the the purse

money moving from places like Kentucky Downs to Ellis Park,

not the same ownership. I think people need to hear

those things once in a while. Is it your sense that there is

an emphasis on continuing Kentucky Down preview going

forward after 2025? It's a great concept and it

really, you know, with Kentucky Downs having so much of their

purse structure fueled through Kentucky breads, it keeps, you

know, the Kentucky breads here that are based in the state to

have just a logical local prep for those race.

The Kentucky Downs instead of going to places like New York or

Del Mar or going elsewhere to be able to have their final preps

for the the Kentucky Downs races for, you know, the the seven

figure purses that they will have down there for their meet.

So it's going to be a great two days of racing August 2nd and

3rd at Ellis Park and it'll it'll feature the the $400,000

pucker up and all the seven stakes across those two days

will be previews for the races a month later down and Franklin,

KY it Kentucky downs. You mentioned the pucker up.

It's graded. This is it always.

Has it been a grade 3 for a while?

It's just been recently boost boosted up again and it's it's

yeah, it's it's going to be, you know, between that race, you

know, there's there's a couple that are close.

We always remember the groupie doll being the feature event at

Ellis Park and and so there's been a couple of years where

it's, you know, fallen below the graded stakes committee's mark.

But between that race and the Ellis Park Derby, I think

they're really close to, you know, elevating in the more

recent future. So look looking forward to that

as well for that next weekend, August the 10th for you know,

just a tremendous day of racing which features the Ellis Park

Derby, the the debutant, the juvenile, the Cowboy Jones.

It's going to be a just a great day of $1.3 million across 6

stakes races. Yeah, yeah, that groupie doll,

of course. And and the the autumn and Oaks

will be run out there as well. The seven furlonger there for

$200,000. Kevin, they're running listed

stakes in Ellis Park for 200,000 three, $100,000.

It is just such a change from when I moved to the area.

It's just so, so fun to do those things.

If someone were to make the trip for the first time to Ellis

Park, what should they expect leaving Jefferson County?

You should expect a nice, enjoyable ride going to the

Hoosier National Forest and do your handicapping if you're

trying to handicap in the car. You'll lose cell service for

about 45 minutes of that drive. But once you get down to Ellis

Park, make sure you're wearing your shorts.

It's a very relaxed feel down at Ellis Park.

Don't think of it as going to the Turf Club at Churchill

Downs. You're going to sit at picnic

tables. You're going to, you know, drink

cold beer and be able to be out in the elements of the the

Henderson heat. It's it's, it's so much fun.

It's almost like a state Fairfield down at Ellis with

different food truck vendors. Have to try the Ellis Relish of

your 4th traditionalist of having the hot dogs this

weekend? Make sure you get some Ellis

Park relish. It is the best accompaniment to

your hot dogs down at Ellis Park.

Are we doing the dollar day still?

That's it's really, I mean this is the important kind of

promotion question, are we, are we balling out on Sunday still?

What are we doing? Absolutely, thanks to our

friends over at the Kentucky HPA.

There's so many great promotions that the Kentucky HPA is helping

us with the dollar days on Sundays.

Mondays is going to be Mad Money Mondays as we're going to refer

to them as lots of great promotions for both horse

players and some of the gaming crowd.

And we'll have some pony contests for the Outrider

ponies. They will be decorating their

ponies, doing some things that'll be able to get them some

extra cash in their pockets, as well as doing a a best turned

out promotion every single Monday, every single race.

And that's all thanks to our friends over the Kentucky HVPA

and President Romans and Executive Director Foley getting

that done with our folks at Ellis Park.

You know, we see these purses I'm seeing, you know, like I

said, you know, $400,000 for the pucker up, these sorts of things

in the purses. Is there any, you know, is there

any talk from, from horsemen? Hey, can we do four days a week

at Ellis or just three weeks seem to be enough.

Three days a week, excuse me, seem to be enough, you know, to

fill the need of horses in the area.

Well, it's, it's sort of something that we'll look at I'm

sure every single year and we see the development of what's

happened at Turfway Park over the winter time.

And you know, just sort of use that as an example as once you

level, make the level competitive on a national scale

for the maiden special aids and the allowance races, you're

getting the top caliber horses and barns to keep horses in

Kentucky. And that purse structure will

continue to flow. We saw the Churchill Downs over

the past decade and we're seeing it hold steady in the winter

time at Turquoise Park. So really exciting feature here

in Kentucky. It's just getting started.

I want to embarrass Kevin just a little.

Your colleague Darren Rodgers had to have surgery during Derby

week and you had to step in and do two people's jobs for a

couple of days. And you did a tremendous job.

And those of us who have to cover that thing and rely on

your press releases and different things for notes and

what have you for talking points, etcetera, we're really,

really grateful. How much sleep did you actually

get during Derby week? Zero.

I would. Why would you sleep the Sturby

week? That part is real, yes, Right.

Yeah. Yeah, why would you sleep?

It was a, I don't sleep during the week to begin with, let

alone having to fill Darren Rodger's shoes.

Glad he's back and he's back in action.

But yeah, it was a, it is definitely.

I'm glad that the goal of mine once that occurred was to make

sure as a seamless transition to not sort of have anything, you

know, fall through the cracks. So I appreciate hearing those

sentiments from you. Well, Kevin, we appreciate you

very, very much. Anything that we left out that

we need to mention a bad money Monday.

I love the some of the promos and horse racing are undefeated.

I like that. It'll be great.

We'll have some special handicapping promotions, tip

sheets, things of that nature that we'll be sharing on the

social media channels. Be sure you grill the man that

you're having next on the show on Find us the winner that we

can bet a couple of dollars on because you know, I'm running

low after, you know, closing weekend at Churchill.

I struck out a little bit. I know there's some 2 year olds

in that Dale Romans barn that he's getting ready to sit on go,

no pun intended as this former runner.

So get some info from him for. I, I, I disagree.

I think you intended that pun. I think you very much intended.

All right, Kevin, get out of here, buddy.

We appreciate you all. Right.

Thanks, Luke. There.

You go horse racing KK on the socials, go find him there.

Kevin Christian over in the office of Churchill Downs really

appreciate him and jumping on the show.

Short notice for that one as well.

We'll talk to trader Dale Romans next, of course.

He mentioned his importance in the 2 year old program.

He is the president of the Kentucky HBPA who is presenting

this hour. KYHBP, a.com.org.

Whatever you want to do, you can check out all the great

articles, all the great photographs, all the great

videos, all the great horses and people that make our sport go

here in the Commonwealth. And of course, 11:00 hour today

presented by J Shepherd Cigars over on Bardstown Rd.

They'll be open for four hours on July 4th.

A ton of promos going on right now on Friday as well.

So get over there with our friend J Shepherd, mention us

and get a free cigar with any purchase.

A J Shepherd customer, Dale Romans.

We talk to him next. Reluctantly crouched at the

starting line, engines pumping and thumping in time, the green

light flashes. The flags go up, churning and

burning. They yearn for the cup.

They deftly maneuver and muscle for rank, burning fast on an

empty tank. Reckless and wild, they pour

through the turns. The prowess is potent and

secretly stern as they speed through the finish.

The flags. You're listening to Rebo and Co

here on ESTN 681057. Now here's Louis Rebo.

A reminder, Reds Red Sox here on 681057 that starts at 6:40.

First pitch right after 7:00 at Fenway Park.

We'll have the Reds and Phillies all weekend for you as well.

Early game tomorrow, excuse me, on Friday in Philadelphia for

July 4th at 12:30, Mets, Yankees, Padres, Rangers to

follow Lucid. He does play that night at 8:45

to start the broadcast, 9:00 first kick out there in Colorado

against Colorado Springs. So be tuned in for all of that.

Really, really pleased to welcome in the president

himself. How about that?

Dale Robbins joins us here on the program.

Our Ellis Park preview rolls on were presented by the Kentucky

HBPA where he has been very, very involved for many, many

years. Dale, good morning, buddy.

How you been? Good morning.

Yeah, things are good. Good man, we were bragging on

you as one of J Shepherd's most fervent supporters.

You and I, both big J Shepherd guys.

How about that? I.

Went and saw him yesterday, picked up 20 sticks.

That's exactly right, good guy. I know you're on your way to

Saratoga for that Manila Stakes. We'll talk about that in a

minute here, but wanted to ask you some questions about the

move to Ellis Park. We just had Kevin Kirsten on

from Churchill Downs and he gave you a ton of credit about

developing that 2 year old program there at Ellis.

You and I were sitting together in Kentucky Downs last fall and

you looked right at me and you said I'm not sure I'm going to

have to take a 2 year old to Saratoga next year.

I think that with these new facilities and everything else,

they're going to be able to bump purses a little more.

You look real prophetic Now. Admit this though, 10 years ago

did you see the 2 year old program looking like this at

Ellis? I never saw Ellis Park looking

like this in any shape or form. I mean, the structure is still

the same, but the racing is totally different.

You know, I've been going down there since I was a kid.

We used to couldn't wait to get in the car and my dad would go

down there every summer and that was our summer camp.

We'd drive over the levee and see Ellis Park and get all

excited at our bikes on the backside, the old ponies to

ride. And that was summer camp for us

for two months. But to see $100,000 maiden

races, I mean, I used to sleep my young horses at Ellis to

break their maidens. Going to figure if they were

going to be really good, it didn't matter where they broke

their maidens. So I would duck the heavy head

to Saratoga. I'm just telling people today I

may have to send 2 year olds to Saratoga to duck Ellis Park.

It is a wild thing to say. You've had horses like Brody's

cause run at Ellis. Not that you know.

A not this time, of course. Broke his maiden there in 2016.

We think of him as a great sire. Dennis's moment.

Yeah, Dennis's moment, certainly out of your barn as well.

What is it though, about Ellis Park?

What is it about that place, you know, a place like you said,

that you've been going to forever?

Certainly the racing better, but what is it about that feel of

Ellis Park that always draws you back?

First of all, it's fun. It's, it's almost like going to

a County Fair and anybody who's a racing fan likes to travel to

see to destination race tracks. Ellis Park is definitely the

ones you put on your your roster because it's, it's a fun place

to go. You're right up next to the

horses all the time. It's a small, quaint grandstand.

Been there for 100 years without much change.

And it's just a fun place to go now.

The racing is fun to watch. It's really used to be, you

know, there were two circuits in Kentucky.

You had Churchill and you had Keeneland.

You had Ellis and Turfway, now it's year round, high quality

racing. It's just Churchill Downs West.

No, that's exactly right. Do you have any good stories

about playing softball in a league in the infield in Ellis

Park? Oh yeah.

We used to play softball. Every summer we'd have a summer

softball league. One time I was a kid.

The pitcher didn't show up, so I saw them all.

I could pitch. And these were competitive guys

a lot older than me that were in the on the team.

And I got up and I was the best pitcher ever for the batters.

I probably had ten home runs hit over my head in the first inning

before they yanked me out and they were all booing me from the

outfield. But we always had fun and it was

fun to hang out there all the time.

Like you say, riding their bikes on the levee.

The it's right next to the Ohio River.

We'd ride over there and go fishing after work.

And we had an old pony, Appaloosa pony.

We looking back on it, we were probably torturing him.

We'd just get on him and ride him around.

My brother's only better wear a bareback, just like the Indians

did. We ride him all the way to the

river. It's just always a fun place to

be. How hot did those games get?

I can't even imagine the heat index on a softball field in

Henderson, KY, in July. It'd be pretty warm, but there's

plenty of beer flowing back. There too.

That's good stuff. Everybody stayed hydrated.

Oh man, Taylor's version broke broker made in the other day.

What can you tell us about Taylor's version?

Taylor's version is a good is a really good horse.

You know he's talking about not this time his his mother's

sister, not this time and Liam's map and she was a horse We ran

second in the Gulfstream Park Oaks with and for him to be a by

end of mystery. He's about as good a bred horse

as you could have, the way he ran another day at Churchill and

then Sky's the women of where he can go.

Is there a is there a sex? Is there a next spot that you're

pointing to with that that son of Into Mischief?

And it's a little quick off that main race.

I'll give him a lot of time because he ran fast and it was a

quality field. We'll give him a lot of time,

but it'll be a race at Ellis Park.

OK, All right. There's the nine wires of two.

OK, we'll see him this summer and he'll be running for

100,000. How about that, Dale?

Yeah, 102,000 for 9 wires of two.

It's incredible. It is incredible, sort of.

It's a mischief Medaliadoro on the on the mom's side.

Taylor's version, by the way, because Taylor S is the dam in

that case. So there you go.

Yeah, Taylor S is the dam, which is 1/2 sister that not this

time. And he was mad.

So it's royal. He's a royal bread coat.

He could be standing studs some more someday.

I was going to say, and you had to bring him along a little more

slowly there, but you do think he'll start picking up once we

get to the summer here? Oh yeah, he was a late mature

and two year old, you know, I never picked him up until he

stayed in Ocala on the farm and just had little aches and pains,

things to get over. Looks like he everything's

behind him now there. You go, look, you're a local guy

here, a Butler High School guy and you know, the Kentucky

circuit, certainly summers at Saratoga and that kind of thing.

I, I, I try to ask this question to, to guys like you who grew up

around Churchill Downs, Obviously your dad a big

influence in your life, but where is the next generation of

horsemen going to come from in this state?

And are we doing a good job of cultivating that generation?

I think so. I think we are.

I mean, you hear all the time about the young people not get

involved. I think the Internet is really

exposed this game to a lot of younger people.

You know, we've got this influencer, Griffin Johnson,

that's a good kid that's helping us get on the Internet and

influence young people to get involved.

But just around my barn, I got an old crew of saying Next kids

and a young man that just finished his freshman year at

Auburn and went to Saint Ex. It's out there working for me.

I got them lined up over there from Ottoman Country Club that

want to come to work when he turns 16 next year.

There's a lot of good kids getting involved in the game and

it's it's really a good thing. Speaking of kids involved in the

game, he's not a kid anymore, but Joe Sharp wins the the

training title at Churchill. I was happy to see that he's a

guy who takes the Churchill meet really seriously, Dale, and a

guy that frankly puts out very good runners in.

He picks a spot so, so well. Anything to add to Joe Sharp

there? Because I I just think of him as

a great horseman. He does a very good job and it's

good he's having his break to break out year and everybody has

to have that and hopefully he can build on his momentum and,

you know, have some real quality horses and keep winning the way

he is. You know, I looking at your

entries and and who you have riding horses and and you know,

the jockey colony here and those kinds of moves when you see the

name of a Jose Ortiz and a Luis Saez and frankly, you know,

Tyler coming back this summer, thank goodness off an injury

there. The the riding colony here in

Kentucky. Has it caught up to New York,

you think? You know, there's a lot of good

young jockeys out there all over the country.

We've got a great colony at Churchill and Ellis Park, and

not many of them leave. New York's got a great colony.

And they're they're, they're a little different bruises than

the old groups coming up. I mean, they're all just good

kids, take care of themselves. They're serious about their

health, like more athletes are in today's time.

It's that's another refreshing thing.

I really got a lot of respect for the jockey colonies around

the country, but we don't have to take a back seat to any of

them. And they're not all young ones.

My job, Corey Landry is 50 years old and he's still winning

races. Hey, won the other day, that was

your maiden winner with Taylor's.

Taylor's you know, you're now the HPA president, president,

President, excuse me. And look, the the arrangement

here, and I was talking about this with Kevin Kirsten right

before you jumped on the sharing of, of purse money from a place

like Kentucky Downs to tracks that they do not own.

This is a very unusual arrangement, frankly, in horse

racing in general. We'll see the Kentucky Downs

preview day as part of, you know, that stakes calendar down

there at Ellis Park as well. Are you hopeful that we'll be

able to continue these good relationships within the state?

I think so, but I think that, you know, Ellis Park open in

their facility in Owensboro for their HHR machines and we see

how popular it's been. Eventually we might be able to

wing off from Kentucky Downs and remove.

Just being able to move the purse money around where it's

needed the most has been really good for Kentucky because

keeping horses here year round on a consistent circuit is a new

thing for us in it. But it's important and I think

it's going to help Kentucky race and grow quicker than anything.

The fact that you don't have to leave and go Saratoga during

Ellis because we shared purse money and the purses are

$100,000, then the fact that you can stay at Turfway Park all

winter if you want to and still compete with the same horses is

there couldn't be anything better for racing than to have a

year round consistent top level circuit.

What is, what is the next step for that?

You know, we see the training at Keeneland essentially year

round, obviously a turf way that's happening year round.

Is it, is it having those facilities available?

Is it private facilities? Is it a combination of those

things? How do we keep that going

especially you know, look Saratoga, Del Mar, etcetera

during the summer. It's pretty important, you know,

if we're going to expand and and have this Ellis program at the

top that you know of the sport that we have the very best

horses here as well. Does that involve some kind of

training agreement, those sorts of things, or do you think those

are in place already? I think most of that's in place

and you put the money up, the facilities will get built and

we've got a lot of great. That's one good thing we have in

Kentucky are a lot of facilities to train that.

I mean Turfway Park is basically full right now.

Those parks basically full. Churchill Downs is basically

full and you've got the training center in Lexington, you've got

Keeneland. That's that's got a lot of

stalls that they're training out of.

I think the next move is to get some expanded days, start

running more days at Ellis Park. If maybe look like a year or

two, get back to five days a week of racing and we've got the

horse population, we're getting the money.

As long as we can maintain over $100,000 for our cheapest main

allowances in the state, that would think that would be the

next thing for us to take a hard look at.

Is there any thought in your mind of, you know, a year round

place for Turfway as far as racing?

Are there enough horses we could fill like a day a week while

other circuits are running or is that not, not something that

would be for, for, you know, foremost in your mind?

I don't think so. I think I don't think you want

to wear out your welcome in front of your audience.

I think that moving is always, I think year round meats end up

getting stagnant. I think moving and being coming

back fresh is a good thing. I think you can.

You can, you can overload your population with too much racing

in one city at a time. So the circuits we have right

now, you're a little broken up and we do have to travel in

Kentucky to run are pretty darn good.

I mean, you got spring and fall and September at Churchill.

You got Kentucky down pops up in September, which is another

great place, which is, you know, we hung out there one day.

And Keeneland's 2 little short meats are as premier as it gets.

I think we're we're set with our dates in a good way.

The only spot is if we can expand the days at Turfway and

Ellis Park in the next couple of years and just run more days a

week. I think that would end up being

a good thing. Yeah, I'm, I hope you're, you're

right about that, Dale. Romans with us at Romans Racing.

By the way, if you want to go find them on socials as well.

Wanted to ask about and I totally lost my trade of

thought. I wanted to ask you about.

Let's ask about some horses. Oh, no, there it is.

There's my note. I'm sorry, I wanted to ask about

horse safety. It's, it's a, you know, Dale,

I've been doing this for about 6 years covering horse racing and

it, it has been other than the how do we get new eyes on the

sport conversation. The other one is how do we make

the sport safer for our equine athletes?

And it's been frankly incredible to watch in the last half decade

how those numbers have shifted and how much more positive those

numbers look. Something you've really leaned

into is, is a program called Safe Stride.

Can you tell people about that and why you're in favor of it?

Yeah, stride right is. A.

It's, yeah. Stride, right, is a developing

system. It's a wearable electronic

device. It's like you'll see on all

major athletes and all, you know, baseball, football,

basketball that matter if they're using it.

We're starting to use it on horses more and more.

Every horse that runs in a Churchill Down racetrack or any

racetrack in Kentucky is used as one of these wearables in its

saddle tale. And it tells you the motion of

the horse. It measures 2400 motions a

second. So it's a whole lot more than I

can see if the jockey can feel. And it's dictating issues

earlier so we can stop on a horse and get them fixed up and

it's turning what might be catastrophic or for rear ending

injuries into maybe 60 days rest and get them back into the barn.

And we've just scratched the surface of where that can go.

But the numbers are showing we're going the right direction.

We're going from average, I think a point .2% .2 per

thousand. We're having catastrophic

problems. We're down to point O 8.

And you know, if we can never get to 0, I doubt it because

they are poorly engineered animals.

They get hurt right in their fields, they get hurt in the

wild. It really doesn't matter.

They can get hurt, but we can protect them as much as

possible. I think we can even get these

statistics lower. You got to remember, when we're

protecting the horse, we're also protecting the jockeys.

Oh, that's exactly right. And so do you see that as a as a

sustainable thing going forward? It's not, it's not free for

sure. So there's going to be a cost

with it, but it's the cost worth it in your mind?

I think the cost would be worth it.

Churchill, Oz, Foot in the bill and right now for all their race

tracks and I think all the other tracks are foot in the bills for

them now and and they're giving trainers access to it.

The biggest obstacle we have is educating trainers and let them

know where to go look and how to digest the information and and

then they can figure out how to use it.

It's just the tool, but I think it's an effective tool and see

if it'll get more effective as we learn more about it and we

get a bigger database on and get a better read on how horses

move. You've got 2 running on the 4th

of July. Coppola's running in the Garrett

Handicap up at Horseshoe. He's boarded 2019 so he's

getting up there a little in age.

Already won this year though. How cool of a horse is he to

train? He's been one of our coolest

horses. He's about the fastest horse

I've ever trained and he he won two stakes at Gulfstream Forest

last this winter and he he won that race up there last year.

So he's defending champions. Hopefully he runs big.

Yeah, no, he won the $100,000 race up there last year.

And then you'll have Maui Strong.

I'm sure you'll be in person for this one in the Manila Stakes.

Junior Alvarado gets them out on the 4th of July.

Both of these, Race 8, by the way, in Indy and in Saratoga

Springs. What's prospects for a for Maui

Strong? Guy's a good horse.

He he hasn't broke through and done it and shown his best yet.

I don't think so. There's more there to him, but

he's, he's run competitive with these horses at this level every

time he's run and he'll run big to them.

Just wait for that one breakthrough race and take him

to the next level. Yeah, Maui Strong, a son, excuse

me, of kittens, Joy Giant Causeway on the damn side, so

obviously built 4. Yeah, I trained.

I trained his mother, his grandmother and his father.

Not too bad, not too shabby. Well, he is Dale.

Romans, Romans racing on the socials and the president of the

HPPA here in Kentucky, KY hppa.com for all the great

things happening over there. Well, Dale, thanks for jumping

on. I'm sure I'll see you at

Kentucky Downs and Safe Trips this weekend.

Thank you, might run into you at the smoke shop.

There you go, There you go over at J Shepherd Cigars, of course,

Barnstown Road, 1429 Barnstown Rd. just north of Eastern

Parkway. One more to go on our Ellis Park

preview hour. Here on the program, we'll talk

with Trader John Hancock. He is a guy who like Dale really

grew up around Ellis Park in his family, etcetera, and he's got,

how about this? He's got 5 running at Ellis and

opening weekend. So we will pick his brain about

all of them. We'll do it next here on Rabon

Cohen, ESPN 680-1057. You are listening to Rabo and Co

here on ESPN 680-1057. Now here's Louis Rebo.

Hi, welcome back in final segment on a Wednesday hump day

program here on Rebo and Co on ESPN 680 and one O 5 seven Reds

Red Sox tonight at 6:40. They're at the Phillies this

weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, earlier games, 12:30 on

Friday, 3:30 on Saturday and one O clock on Sunday.

We'll have it all for you here on your home for the Reds in

Kentucky and a 680 and one O 5 seven.

Really pleased to finish up our Ellis Park preview hour with a

trader and owner John Hancock. He joins us.

We we think of him as Mr. Ellis Park.

You understand me, Zach. This is a great moment for us

here on the program. John, good morning.

How are you doing? We're doing good.

How are How are things going your?

Way yeah really really good the sun is out which is all I really

asked for in the world. John is just a little bit of

sunshine and I'll figure out the rest of it, but wanted to open

look the passing of one of your colleagues in in Wayne Lucas.

And I know you have a a special connection with him.

Both you know, being, you know, being a colleague of his being,

you know, in in a barn down the the row a little bit, but also

with your family. Go ahead and tell people a

little bit about your connection with Wayne Lucas.

Well, Wayne and I got to be really good friends a few years

ago and he, him and his wife, Lori, they're like family to us.

Three or four years ago, he came and knocked up here on on my

office door. And I, I looked at him and I

said, oh, what an honor this is. Come on in coach, he came in, he

sit down the chair next to me and he said, listen.

He said you breathe the chestnut Philly from the gate this

morning. And he said I've been watching

her and he said I want to buy her.

And I said, well she belongs to my daughter.

He said what is she for sale? And I said, coach, you know,

she's a 2 year old. That's what I do.

I like selling 2 year olds. He said well I watched her last

week and I watched her. I saw her this morning and he

said Laurie and I want to buy her.

And I said, OK, And I said I'm listening.

And he said, well, what do you want for?

And I said, no, coach, I said I'm listening.

And he? Said no, you price her.

And I said no. And he reared vacuum on the

couch there and he said no. He said, now listen, first thing

we got to get off the table is he said I don't want to buy her

and sell her too. And I said, all right, so we him

hauled around and we come up with a price and he said, well,

I'll call Laurie and tell her to bring your check this afternoon.

And I said, well, do you want to better out look at her?

He said no, I just, I've not seen enough of her.

He said, you know, he said I've, I've watched you with these two

year olds and he said I want her.

He said we'll meet you in the paddock.

He already knew what race I was in that afternoon.

I was in the second. He was in the 3rd.

And he said we'll meet you in the paddock after your race,

before our race and Lori will pay you.

And the Philly turned out to be backyard money.

He made almost a half $1,000,000 with her and so the next year I

called him on the phone I got the half sister to her you you

interested in buying her. My daughter's got her on the

farm. He said I'll take her he at UPS

to check for her and we sent her to him and that turned out to be

our keepsake and I think she's in here this weekend and I think

she's made she's made close to 300,000 with her.

But what he did he bought them and get parts of them to his

grandkids. And then I told him another 2

year old called Moe's treasure. But we we were very close.

He called me on the phone the day before he went in the

hospital about one O clock and he asked me what I was doing and

I said I was just sitting here watching TV.

He said, you got a minute and we must have talked for about 40

minutes. And I said, well, coach you off

a week. And he changed the subject.

But he had, for the past couple years, my family had gone to

Saratoga where he would be in the summer and they'd stay four

or five days up there and be around him and Lori and

everything. And he got very attached to my

grandson. Him and Lori did.

And he kept telling me for the past two years, he says when

your grandson graduates, he said, I'm going to hire him.

And I said, all right, we'll see.

And it got closer and closer. Well, my grandson graduated this

year and this spring, and he called me on the phone.

He said it was on a Sunday morning.

He said, I just made the deal with Matthew.

He said, you lost him. I said, is that because he's

been running my barn? And I said, is that right?

He said, yeah. And it was a big deal for my

family for Matthew to go to work for Wayne, because that was

always to go with the family, for him to hook up with Wayne

and go with him. And so his his passing is it's

rough. We we we thought of him as a

very, very dear friend. Friend, we, my grandson's over

his, they, they got stalls here this summer at Ellis Park and he

just went barn over from him. My grandson had him put him up

here where we're at and I could see all this stuff and

everything. And my grandson's over there

right now. And I don't know what the future

brings for him, but he, he took it pretty rough.

But Wayne Wayne was, he was a very special person.

He not only was a Hall of Fame and a legend in the horse

business, he was. A Hall of Fame person.

We love to talk to people. If you sit down and had a

conversation with Wayne Lucas, when you left that conversation,

you felt like you were somebody. I mean, here I am.

I'm nobody down here, just just a little tiny outfit and all.

And he told me one day on the phone, he said, you know, he

said that you've got an awful good eye for two year olds.

He said, I don't even, he said, I won't even get them out.

If you save it worth the money, I'll buy them.

And to me, that meant a lot to me being from here and being

from Ellis Park. And I was looking forward for

him being here this summer and my grandson loaning from him and

working with him. He was there'll never be another

one. There's nobody out there now

that could take these place. There's nobody that will ever

take these place. But what he could do in a group

of people a couple years ago, we had a thing here that was parked

for on the stage. Wayne said he wouldn't do it

unless I am seated. So I said, OK, I'll do it.

I am seated on the stage with Wayne Lucas and Dale Romans.

Dale, because he grew up right here at Ellis Park.

I grew up right here at Ellis Park.

Dale was in the barn across the street from me here my whole

life. And Dale's goal is we grew up.

There was three of us, there was Greg Foley, Dale Romans and

myself. We all grew up right here on the

backside of Ellis Park. And Dale's goal was always to go

to Saratoga. And every summer he would take a

vacation, go to Saratoga. But his goal was to always be in

that circuit, trained horses in that circuit.

But that day we had a question and answer session with a group

of people at Ellis Park and everybody didn't think it would

go over very good. Well, I can tell you that when

the first race ran that day, we still had a big crowd underneath

the Greenstein. They didn't go watch the race

run. They listened to Dwayne Lucas

and they we had a monster crowd. That's what people, I mean,

that's what he did for people. He was just a words can't

describe what he was. They just, you just can't do it.

I remember when we'd be at Turfway and it was the spiral

state for the Jim being he moved in the barn there where we were.

He always was going and he always betted the the hell.

Whenever they ship out, we'd go over and get the straw and fix

it over the wall on our stalls and bet our horses for a week,

you know. But he's just, he's a very

special person. I'm just, I'm just sorry that my

grandson didn't get to finish with him.

But we're we're very glad that we got the meeting and and him

be a part of our family. You mentioned being part of

that, that tradition. You know, your family, this is

five generations now. You're a a Henderson kid.

We just had Dale on. He told all these stories.

You know, frankly played like softball field of these kinds of

things down at the P patch. Your son though, taking over

that barn and you know, you would being in barn 4 and and

all of the things. I mean, just you also have two

maidens running this weekend for 100,000 buddy.

Like, how different does it feel now down there?

Or is is does Ellis Park still have that charm that it did when

you were growing up? Ellis Park will always be Ellis

Park. The people won't let it be any

different. The fans here, Ellis Park

doesn't belong to Churchill Downs.

They may have wrote the check and bought it, but Ellis Park

belongs to the people in this area.

The fans in this area. They, I can remember when my

grandfather ran horses here in the 60s and Thomasine Vandaloo I

hooked up with when I was six years old.

In this particular barn we're in now, and I'm 65 and still in

this barn, you know, you'd walk through the grandstand, what we

call the little green grandstand, and people would

holler at them and wave at them and they'd win a race.

And then and the winner's circle would be full of the local

people. They say, well, just come on in,

you know, come on in. You know, you get your picture

made. And I can remember when the

inside rail with the wooden rail, you know, there's so many

memories here about Ellis Park. When they tore down the water

tower, when you come in the back gate, it, it kind of bothered

some of us because we were so used to it, we couldn't

understand. And what if you don't use it

anymore? Why can't you just leave it?

It's an icon, you know. But I shot rabbits in the bean

field when I was a kid here, you know, my, you know, in the

winter we come over here with the Joneses.

We're the caretakers on the backside and we grew up on top

and come in the back of it. And the levy here was all full

of woods all around it. And hell, we come over and we,

we hunt, put the dogs out and hunt, hunt rabbits here all

winter. You know, it was Park is just

which has always been and we'll always be a very special place.

And if you watch the 2 year olds, their grand, including me,

I've I've gotten better 2 year olds over the years.

I've I've been fortunate enough to to break used to bring them

out right out of September, sail in here and break them, get them

ready to run, let them see the atmosphere and then finish them

up somewhere over at Riverside after we've moved out of Ellis

Park, cocked and loaded that he made 3/4 of a million and was on

the Derby trail. Bought him, brought him right in

here and broke him here. You almost had me.

Cox had her Maker's got her now. I sold her to black tight

thoroughbred 2 years ago after breaking her maiden by 10 and

Keeneland. You know, I, I sold midnight

Chica to to the chic over in Dubai and she went over in penny

second and a grade 2. We we sold a lot of nice horses

that we bought and brought in here to Ellis Park.

The 2 year olds here, the last few as Steve Asperson, he hasn't

pulled any punches. He runs some of his best ones

here. Look at East Avenue, Brandon

Walsh's. So it's great since May year,

last year, there's been a lot of two year olds.

That is the person that went up, but it's also because of the

racetrack. It's such a great racetrack.

It's so sound, you know it's good.

The horses, this track phaser into horses, horses team to get

over it. Better stay founder on it

longer. But now the money's matching the

racetrack. People are bringing their two

year olds in here this summer. We're running 2 year olds.

I did something this year that I haven't done in the last four or

five years. I haven't sold a 2 year old yet.

I kept four or five nice ones to run here this summer.

Got a really nice coat in Friday that belongs to a group of

people that I put together along with Elm Tree, the Hucklebee's

from Lexington. He's in here Friday and he's got

a bright future. I've got a 2 year old win

Saturday that I really like going to run.

I've got some Cheerios for Ken Donworth and Gatewood Vale out

of Lexington that I'm going to run next weekend.

You know, we, we kept them to run here because the pots are

$100,000. In my lifetime, I never thought

I'd be $100,000 pot to go far. Well, John, all the best this

weekend. You mentioned Mr. Vaggio.

Is he the one who's going to get you off the schneid with first

timers? Nice coat.

Nice coat. Well, good, really.

Really, really, really nice coat.

Like I said, I'll be surprised if if he's not very impressive.

I've already had a couple fillers out about him because I

had him about raging running Keeneland in the spring and he

got sick on me and had to lay him up.

And there's been people that have watched.

He turned in some really good numbers, extremely, extremely

good gay horse that you know, we got a new starter here for the

first time. You know, they hired him on

Saturday. Hell, I didn't even didn't even

know we had a new starter until this morning.

I went over to the gate. K go stay in the Church Hill.

And you know, Scott Jordan, he moved on to New York.

That was part that's been very blessed to have great starters,

good outriders and really good racing secretaries.

You know, over the years, you look at it, you know, all the

good ones, you know, Kevin Greeley, Ben Huffman, Danny

Board, they all, all of them took a stand here.

You know, now we've got Bailey Hare who studied underneath of

all of them, worked underneath all of them, has a really bright

future. Of course, we just think a lot

of the, you know, I'm sure somewhere along the line you'll

move up the ladder, too. But really good at what he does,

very knowledgeable, got a great personality.

We're looking for a great meet for him.

And if you look at the card, he's got a couple short fields.

But that's not bad for having eight or four days in a row.

You know, Herschel had a couple of short fields.

Bailey Bailey's going to be really good at what he does.

I'm looking forward to it. I got to interview him a couple

weeks ago. He's very sharp.

And so I think you all are in good hands down there.

We'll save trips for all five of your entries down there at Ellis

Park this weekend. John, really appreciate you

jumping on the program. I'm here and I'm sure we'll

catch up down the line. All right.

Thank you very much. Thanks John.

There you go. John Hancock on the board there

of the Kentucky HBA KYHBP a.com presenting this hour here, our

Ellis Park preview and of course our friend J Shepherd at J

Shepherd Cigars. Go check him out there on

Bardstown Rd. Thursday show tomorrow, our last

of the week normal guest. Tomorrow we'll talk to Ben.

We'll talk to Jay, get Jay's opinions on all these crazy NBA

deals that are happening and certainly catch up with Ben.

First time in a couple of weeks about Kentucky basketball there

as well. Across from Lucy and across from

Zach, my name is Louis Rebeau. I'll be back at 10:00 tomorrow

and hopefully you will be as well for our usual Thursday

program there. Thanks to Dale, thanks to John

and of course Kevin Kirstein for joining us here in this hour.

Missed any part of the show? Head back to the Podcast Center

at espnlouisville.com. Back at 10 tomorrow.

We hope you are too. Have a good day.