Santa Anita Fall Meet | John Cherwa

All right, welcome in a special Tuesday edition of the Horse

Racing Happy Hour. I'm Louie Robot.

As always with you at Radio Louie on Twitter.

Find the show at Horse Happy Hour as well.

You can find us on YouTube, Instagram, wherever it is that

you are hanging out socially around the internets.

As one young George W Bush once said, his name is John Sherva.

He did not vote for George W Bush, but he joins us from the

Los Angeles Times. I don't know that I am just

making things up. Welcome in John, how is your

dog? Everyone wants to know.

Griff is actually doing very well.

He just had his semi annual this week.

He's got, you know, because he's a small dog.

They do have, you know, a collapsed trachea issue.

And yeah, that's what happened especially.

And he's a total mutt. I mean, we did the DNA testing

on him and it was part Griffin's Brussels Griffon, border collie,

Shih Tzu. And it's a real common ailment

in Shih Tzus, which is probably not what you're you're.

But he's 15 1/2. Yeah, right.

Which is, which is like, you know, in soccer, we are in bonus

time and I hope that it's a really long bonus time.

But he acts like a puppy and and, you know, and he loves the

filet mignon I order from when I'm on the road.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, he's like a pig.

That's right. Which I hope to be this weekend,

but not guaranteed. I had planned to go to the

California Crown crown on Thursday, but right now we're

dealing with a tropical storm slash Hurricane Helene and my

flights, my flights at 7:00 AM on Thursday, a Thursday.

And you know, I'm hoping I can get out because that's getting

into that area. But you know, those of us who

live in Florida, that's just part of the deal.

It is part of the deal. He's John Sherwa at J Sherwa

CHERWA, if you are one of the 10 people that listens to the show

and hasn't followed John on Twitter yet, go do that.

latimes.com/sports, of course. All right, so California crown

John, I got to say from a distance.

So one of the things, one of my favorite random moments of

rivalry in my life is I told our audience that I thought of

certain tracks as Major League tracks and certain tracks as AAA

tracks. And you took great exception to

this because I threw Santa Anita into the current level of lower

level Major League tracks. So they come out with a new

statement on per structure and 54,000 for maidens.

And they have reduced some of the claiming numbers down to I

think what was it, 35 to 30, these kinds of numbers.

You know, they're taking some of the money out of those purses.

And it was from what was called or at least communicated to us,

an overpayment of purses by the racing office there at San

Anita. How did that happen in the first

place? Because all of a sudden, John, I

see a million dollar race on the scale on the calendar that

wasn't there before. OK, I, I do have the answer to

your question. First of all, let's start with

one of the great PR jobs in our in our time which is horse

racing, which when they have an underfunding of of purses, they

call it an overpayment. Yes.

Which is is totally counter intuitive.

What happens is if the handle on a race or on races does not

equal enough for in this case the TOC, the thoroughbred owners

of California to pay into the purses, then the track does

what's called an overpayment of. And I, I think I have it

somewhere during the winter spring meet, there was an

overpayment of $5,000,000, which meant that Santa Anita, the

track paid $5,000,000 into purses in order to meet the

minimums that they had requested because talent, because, because

the handle wasn't large enough, wasn't, wasn't high enough,

which is not a good sign. And I, I asked the other day,

when was the last time you had an underpayment where you

actually paid back money? And, and I was told it was

Golden Gate, that there was a, you know, like 2 or $3,000,000

because they weren't running races.

And if you're not running races, you don't have to pay purses

anyway. This is a very long explanation,

but the entire $3.1 million of California Crown Day is being

paid by the Stronic group and which is about a $600,000

savings for the TOC on that day because that's what they would

have normally paid out. So, you know, this is a very,

the California crown is a, is a good thing for the, for the TOCI

mean. At least they seem to be

outwardly happy with the fact that, you know, that they don't

have to pay this purse money. And, you know, but it it doesn't

change the whole factor that the California racing purse

structure is, is so fragmented, so, so broken that they can't

afford to, you know, to pay the purses.

And let's just briefly, and I apologize for going on for so

long, but in Northern California right now, although it's

probably going to be resolved by the time, you know, your, your

listeners hear this is they came in, they agreed with the TOC of

a purse structure for the Pleasanton, which is the

Northern California GG, Golden Gate Racing, GGR Racing.

And then even before that date came, before the racing started,

they cut it by, I don't know, 1015%.

And now they're in negotiation. And like, hopefully it's, it's

all been settled by the time, you know, you guys hear this,

everyone hears this. You know, they don't, they don't

even have a purse structure that is agreed upon by everyone.

So, you know, I, I'm going to write a story for Saturday about

the whole California crown. And I'm thinking of, and I, I

hate to, you know, give their, the listeners an inside look as

to what I'm, as to what I might write.

Or what I'm thinking is that I, I might start the story with the

California Horse Racing Board meeting on Thursday in which

there was no power, there was no Internet, there was no sound,

you know, from microphones. First time it's happened in 20

years. But is that somewhat of a

harbinger, a sort of a harbinger of, of where California racing

starts is the one of the probably the second most

important meeting they've had in the last 20 years?

They didn't even have sound and they basically delayed the the

granting of the license. Anyway, I've gone way off track

and I apologize. So let's get back on where you

want to talk about. No, it's all right.

I, I just so for example, I, I, I pulled this up and you know,

we're talking about sustainability of the racing

product in, in Southern California.

You mentioned the strata group spending 3,000,000 bucks on

Saturday. That's not a small amount of

money, John. I mean, that's a no.

That's a frankly, if, if that, if they're considering that like

a marketing cost, that's an expensive set of marketing,

right? What do you think attendance

wise they'll get on Saturday compared to a normal Saturday?

It's Santa Anita in the fall. The truth is they'll be up a

little, but not a lot. And, and here's is going to be

one of the things that that if if I'm there on Saturday and can

and can view it first hand, I will probably use something in

my story that that says that Santa Anita announced in

attendance of X, even though visually it may not appear that

way. Now that's a very kind way of

saying that I think Santa Anita has played fast and loose with

their attendance figures. Nothing more than Breeders' Cup

last year. Man, they made claims about

attendance that just could simply couldn't be true based on

crowd size. I mean, it's just not true.

And you're right that you know it it.

And the interesting thing about is when they came up with their

final total, it was just above Churchill Downs.

Isn't that, isn't that a coincidence that that they're,

that they came up with that? I've heard they've had problems

with the seats with the box seats, which if you're a regular

holder of a box seat, I'm told they have to pay $900 a person

which would be 50 with their box seats are usually 6 which is be

$5400.00 for this Saturday. Then I'm also told that the

uprising from a lot of the regular customers is like no

we're not going to do this. And so they've reduced it to

just like under 1000 because because this is, you know, this

platform is a little different than than when I write the

times. I'm I, I may not get granularly

into that, but I will certainly, you know, search for

verification that they cut the prices.

You know, they're going to lose money, bottom line, they'll lose

money, but will the PR benefit from it grow?

You know, we'll wait and see. Although I don't see.

And again, I'm, I, I don't live in, in Southern California, I'm

told there's not a lot of advertising that's going to

bring people out. So we'll just see.

Follow up on that. So you talk about trying to get

people to the track. Obviously you can keep all that

handle in this new world of CA WS and discounts and, you know,

sharing ADW money with, you know, the TVG folks and the Twin

Spires folks. You know, that odd track handle

very important. Is LA just not going to be a

town that goes to the races anymore?

Is that a thing? Because it, it's something, you

know, we're watching locally here in Louisville where

Churchill's really going out of its way to cultivate those

things. Bounce houses for kids on

Sundays and, you know, this kind of stuff.

We've seen those things at Santa Anita before with the infield

and with different, you know, activities and that kind of

stuff. Is LA just not a track go in

town anymore? Well, first of all, you know,

the whole infield fair, I think I've spent two more days with

the fair than without the fair. They they, they, they absolutely

work their butt off to to make that happen.

But let's see what's going on this weekend.

Well, both USC and UCLA are playing on Saturday.

And while I'm not sure there's any interest in UCLA, USC lost

in Michigan last week. And but you know, there's still

some pretty good interest there. I I'm, I'm just not sure that

the full audience on a Saturday in September.

You've also got the Dodgers in the midst of a of trying to beat

the Padres to win the division and then maybe get the bye along

with Philadelphia in the baseball play offs.

So you know, it's a it's a tough hustle.

It's a tough hustle. You know what I think could have

made a difference is Wayne Lucas and the my horse race people if

they had run sees the Gray in fair enough.

Yeah, this. Kelly Crown rather than the pen

Derby. Yeah, right.

But they won the pen Derby. How can you call that a mistake?

You cannot and and actually you've got national treasure in

this race. And if you look at the, I forget

with 3 million or $5 billion bonus, whatever it was, if you

win the Preakness, the Pegasus and the the what used to be the

awesome, again, awesome. Again.

Right. Yeah, you know you'd win this

big bonus. Well, guess what?

National Treasure stands a chance to do that.

But not in this year. But not in the calendar that

that they that they do. So, you know, that's the race is

not going to attract any people. I I don't think I mean, you

know, does does the average fan know about national treasure?

Do they know about moose? Do they do they know about

senior Bouskador? Not really.

I mean, we haven't had a star, a superstar in Southern California

and I'm going to be a little this is not in fact, but you go

back to the the last great superstar was in Yatta and and

then you had like songbird, you had, you know, California

Chrome. I.

Was going to say Chrome actually, for if I was going to

try to try to get like prop someone into that spot, I was

going to go to Chrome, yeah. You know, Chrome was, was, was

fantastic. And frankly, American Pharaoh

started out there, but it it his notoriety came from running away

from California. Yes, yeah, he he basically what

was his his his only Southern California race might have been

Los Alamitos, I don't know sounds.

Right. Yeah.

So, so, so you don't have, you know, the, the superstar horse

that's going to, to, to get you out.

I, I talked to a guy named Bob Hartman, who's head of the RTIP,

the racetrack industry program in, in, in Tucson, University of

Arizona the other day. And he, he used to be the, and

he'd actually be a good guest for you, by the way.

He, he used to be the general manager at Golden Gate.

He's now head of the most prestigious racetrack academic

program in the country. And you know, he, he, he talked

to me about a little bit about the, the whole idea of, of, you

know, getting people out when there is no star that, that you

can't do it off the stars anymore, that you have to do it

off the experience. And admittedly, this could be a

pretty good experience. But the general admission, which

on Fridays is free at Santa Anita, I believe is 2750 twenty

$7.50 on Saturday, so. That's, that's more than night

racing at Churchill Downs. I'll, I'll just give you a for

instance, that it's 20 bucks to get in at a night race at

Churchill Downs. I'm just I'm just using it for

instance. OK, yeah, no, I I think that's

fair, although I also could make a case that, you know, why does

why do race tracks charge anybody to come in, you know,

and I mean, yeah, if you. Especially GA especially.

GA yeah, yeah. And GA, I mean, if you want to

go to the, to the, you know, to the, the front runners club or

whatever the name of the club is, yeah, then that you know,

yeah, you could pay a little 3 to $5 service charge, which

will. Well, and it's so interesting

too, because even a place like Santa Anita, we get the emails,

Clocker's quarters there, it's open, you can get in.

It's, it's no cost. And, and they're, so they're

smart about that. They know that that's something

that if someone goes to Clocker's Corner once, you know

this, John, you've been there 1000 times.

What a spectacular place. It's one of my three or four

favorite places in horse racing. I think it's incredible.

And if people get exposed to that and the people and hanging

out the culture there, they're gonna be they're gonna buy in

the the workouts are magic. But yeah, 2750 goes in the

middle. Or stand around essentially in

Santa Anita to watch some races that are not great vantage

points from the stands there. I mean, it's, it's it's own

thing for sure. Yeah.

And to get back to Clockers, Clockers is, is, is fantastic.

I mean, you can pretty much find any trainer there in the

morning, I mean. They get it like, here's coffee,

just grab a cup of coffee. Here's a doughnut, just grab a

doughnut. Like they totally.

It's really the the the culture is awesome.

It really is. Yes, and and you know, they do

the same thing at Los Alamitos and I'm not sure what they do at

Del Mar, but I think something similar.

But yeah, OK. You know, I go to Clockers a

lot, but I got to tell you in complete honesty, when I watch

the workouts, I can't tell it unless it's exceedingly bad or

exceedingly good. I can't, I can't learn anything

from a workout. But you know, certainly other

others can. And if you know where to look,

you can find Baffert, you can find Sadler, you can find

Sheriff solo Sheriff's a little difficult because he's like on a

horse on the track. And you can find and talk to all

these guys. You can get the jockey agents,

you can get the jockeys. I mean, Clockers Corner is

certainly a a a big ticket item for real horse racing fans who

want to meet the stars of the game.

And guess what? I would say 90% of them are

really good people to talk to. Will will take the 30 seconds to

pretend like they're interested in what you have to say or who

you are because they know that's important to the game.

Yeah, that's right. No, I agree with you.

John Sherbert with us, by the way, LA Times,

latimes.com/sports for all his stuff out there.

I was going through a couple of different things, John, because

I wanted to talk. You know, we've talked about per

structure these kinds of things and you see $1,000,000 race and,

and you've explained it. This is tronic money.

This is essentially marketing money for this weekend, but the

the drops in purses. So I I wanted to bring this up.

Of the 15 highest earning jockeys in the United States

this year, 1 california-based jock is on that list and his

name is Juan Hernandez. He's in 14th place in purse

money. He's a full time rider in

Southern California and gets the very best mounts there.

He hits the board at 60% because the field sizes plus the fact

that he just gets the best mounts.

And to be fair to Juan that he's a good jock, he just is.

He's a good Roger at Indiana today.

They're running maiden specials for 43.

Doug O'Neill has horses in two of those races.

Do you think Doug O'Neill keeps more money by winning an Indiana

race at the maiden level at 43 or at 54 at Santa Anita after

all of his expenses? Well, you know, you have a lot

of expenses and you have to ship, but you also have to

wonder whether the horse runs in Indiana is is staying in Indiana

or going down. These are all both horses are

either running at Ellis or Indiana in their careers, yes.

OK, the, the, the truth is that I am very much looking at the

trainers in Southern California when we start to see the exodus

because the purses just aren't there.

And that's because of the lack of, of supplemental gaming, you

know, HHHR. And that's, that's, you know,

sort of what it's all about. And I think the person who's

made the most change might be Mike McCarthy, who runs a lot of

horses outside. You've got Owen Hardy, who

basically runs a lot of horses outside.

Cripes, Peter Urton's got a bunch.

Of horses, absolutely. Urton and Doug.

Doug O'Neill is certainly got a strong string in the Midwest.

I think when you see Baffert start to move part of his his

stable out, I think that's when you're going to say rut row, you

know, things things are not looking good for.

With Bob, will that be, will that be a Bob decision or an

ownership decision? To you, it'll be a Bob decision,

Bob. The truth is, Bob has bosses who

are the owners. But if your employee in horse

racing was Bob Baffert, would you not listen to him probably

answer the question? You know, I mean, you know, you

know, Tom Ryan and and Jack Wolf and they're all great guys,

Elliot Walden. But when it comes to the

training and nurturing of a horse, that's the deal with

Baffert, you know. So, you know, I I think he can,

he controls that. Certainly, you know, if there's

if there's an owner, Yeah. And and you know, if you go

back, maybe, I don't know, 4-5, six years, you know, Baffert had

one of his main clients was Colleen Shaw.

And that worked out well for a while.

And then I think they started to butt heads a lot on things.

And the next thing you know, Baffert, and again, this is in

dispute, but I think Baffert fired Colleen.

He ended up going to Simon Callahan, where he's had

generously mixed results. And you know, if, if, if I am a

course owner, which I am not, I would pick my trainer based on

letting that person make the decisions because they know

what's going on. And, and so, so anyway, that's a

long way of saying no. I think it'll be Bob's decision,

not the owner's decision. Do you have any inkling that

he's going to be doing that, whether at a place like

Arkansas, you know, with with hot, you know, in Hot Springs,

or is that? No.

Attritional downs kind of run track.

I mean, at some point, look at some point you're running for 54

and there's 120 races out there doing the exact same thing.

I mean, at some point, right? Is someone not going to say

something? I am.

As a journalist, I'm reasonably close to Baffert.

And by that I mean, he returns my phone calls and I have

detected nothing that says he would give up on Southern

California racing. But, you know, things, things,

things change. I mean, you know, we are headed

for a few years of great tumult as to the success in the future

of Santa Anita and the success of Santa Anita will affect the

success of Del Mar. You know, it's, it's not like if

Santa Anita were to go to go away, that Del Mar could easily

just succeed, pick up where it was.

I don't think it's going to happen.

That can't happen. You need the circuit.

So, so we are in an incredibly tenuous position in California

that personally I think can only be solved by a supplemental

revenue stream, which would be HHR or some of football for

that. Yeah, No, I think it's

reasonable. I think in the same way that you

have football teams that move to Los Angeles with the promise of

help to pay for their stadiums, There's no reason that, you

know, in the in the wealthiest sport in our country, if they're

getting help, then horse racing wouldn't get help.

But how can you explain the lobby to people that just don't

understand it? How how do the how do the the

the tribal groups out there have so much control over the

gambling? Well, this goes back at least

2030, thirty years maybe. And that is for the horse

racing. And again, I've said it before,

whenever there's a major decision to be made, horse

racing will make the wrong one is they were in, you know,

dealing with the with the what we call the tribes to determine

the future of California racing. And at that point they thought

that horse racing was, you know, was iron was just iron clad.

You couldn't break it. It was going to be a success.

It was always going to be a success.

Well, guess what? That was a really, really bad

decision as they were not looking toward the future.

And so they gave away all the the casino games to the the

tribes who tend to make a bunch of money off it and also have an

incredibly strong lobby in Sacramento, the state capitol.

And it would take a major force within California politics to

seed some of that back to to horse racing because horse

racing said no, no, go ahead. You know, it's, it's yours.

You know, we'll be just fine. Well, guess what?

It's, you know, 30 years later and they're not just fine.

And, and without some kind of relief, even if they have to

give the tribes. And I'm just making up this

figure. Yeah. 5% or something, whatever.

Well, I'm thinking 55%. I'm, I'm thinking it's going to

be that great of, of the revenue from you know, HHR, we can call

it HHR if it's slot machines, OK, it's slot machines.

It is. I agree it's para mutual.

Slot machines, that's. Right.

It's Para Mutual slot machines and whether they can get that to

happen, I don't know. I have worked really hard to try

to find out where the status of supplemental gaming is in

California and I got nothing. I got nothing.

I know a lot of the lobbyists, I know a lot of the people, and

nobody can tell me unless it's really super secret if there are

any negotiations between the tribes and the tracks.

And that, you know, I think that that's a story for me is like,

OK, everyone agrees California racing means supplemental

income. How?

What are you doing about it? And on the surface, I'm thinking

nothing, so you know. Well, if you if you follow the

bread crumbs around here in Kentucky, I I think people

around the country would be stunned to learn that Keeneland

supplements their purses with money from Kentucky Downs's slot

machine parlors. You know I mean.

This is the kind of stuff and it's just the reality.

It it we we think of. It's interesting, John, to to be

in Louisville during this time, by the way, to talk to guys like

you talk to guys in New York, whatever, who were for many

years and in many ways still are in the spots where LA, New York

are the kingpins of the sport. Like, no question, right?

And now watching that re whatever that reorganization of

horse racing that's going on right now is, is what Kentucky's

doing actually bad for the sport, John, Or is there just a

bunch of people going whoa, whoa, whoa, we can't keep up

with that? I think what Kentucky is doing

is good for Kentucky. You know, I mean, I, I, let's

face it, Kentucky Downs is a a sideshow.

You know, it's a track that. Horses.

Horses, never. US horses never run that kind of

track again in unless they're running Kentucky Downs goodness,

you know, help, you know, people like Larry Coldness who have to

call a race that they can't see, you know, so big credit to Larry

for that and and Michael Rona, who also had when.

He was doing it, Yeah, yeah. Right when he was doing it is

it's, it is. Gosh, I, I wish I were smart

enough to come up with this, this, this great analogy.

But you know, it's maybe like a sort of a bastard stepchild of a

rich guy that suddenly ends up with a bunch of money when the

when the parent dies, you know, and what do they do with it?

And they have so much money and they what they they take from

what, what they the show they put on is the money, the purses

way out outflanks the talent that they have running there.

I mean, they're running $1,000,000 races with grade

three horses. Maybe that's even I think.

Saffy. Saffy claimed a horse for 16 and

what, a half million dollar person like next time out there.

Yeah, that kind of stuff, yeah. Right.

Yeah. And, and it's, it's a, it's

clearly, you know, an anomaly of how the whole business is and

credit them. And the fact that they give

money to other tracks in Kentucky is great.

I wish they'd give other money to tracks in California, but

that doesn't make any sense. I was actually asked yesterday

by a senior executive in California racing.

And, you know, he said, you know, what do you think about

this idea of us asking other states for money to help prop us

up? And I said, that's ridiculous.

You know it's not it's not going to happen.

First of all, you have a sport in which none of the powers get

along. They can pretend to, but you

know, again, you go back to the to the New York crime families.

The crime families, you know, are are Naira Churchill Downs,

Stronic, TVG slash FanDuel is a crime family because of the

their their ADW that they have. And that's pretty much it.

That's who controls racing. You do have the independent

circuit of Delmar and Keeneland, Oaklawn, I think are are kind of

independent. Oh, they are independent.

They're kind of independent. And but the the sport.

I have yet to see any sign of the sport putting their own

interests aside and deciding to work together to save the sport.

Is there, you know, with this infusion of cash on Saturday

from the stronic group? More likely in John Sherva's

mind? Let's assume it doesn't work out

to where they recoup all the 3,000,000 bucks this weekend.

They won't. They won't.

I, I think you're probably right, but let's say that they

don't is, is it more likely that they go, we're never doing this

again? Or should we, can we look at

this positively and say, OK, you know what, they're actually

trying to make something happen here in September ahead of the

Breeders Cup and all those things.

Is there a way to be positive about it, even if it doesn't

land that they'll go, that we have faith that they'll do with

the next, you know, five years? Oh, I have.

I have complete faith that they will continue to try to do it.

I mean, I, I just think they know they're going to lose money

this time and they're hopeful and you know, the, the cop, the

music, and I'm trying to get some answers, Sir.

Like it's like, it's like a nuclear secret as to how the

music is going to come out on. I've gotten stiffed twice from

the 1st Vice president of events who I'm still hope who now has

asked if I submit my questions in writing and all I want to

know is where's the stage going to be?

When will the music be? Will the music be after the

racing or which I've been told a a better way to do it is like do

mini sets in between races like 3 songs race 3 songs race.

They've got Shabuzzi who was on I saw him on Stephen Colbert

last week or was it this week? It was last week and, you know,

they got him on the way up and I you go back to the Preakness is

I saw Post Malone before I knew who Post Malone was sure at the

Preakness. I mean, they've done a pretty

good job, I know. Shibuzi, by the way, number one

song on Barack Obama's summer playlist.

How about that? Yeah, absolutely, Shibuzi.

He's not your traditional country star with, you know,

with dreadlocks and and. But Nigerian parents growing up

in Virginia, yeah, No, he's. Not the wrong one, exactly, but

yeah, yeah. But I think they're catching him

on the way up. The one of the major DJ is a guy

named Frank Walker. And what can you tell me about

Frank Walker? I can't.

OK, I will tell you that Frank Walker was named after his first

name was after his grandfather, whose name was Frank.

Does that help you? It does.

Yeah. And they named a wine after him

and all these kinds of things. Yes, Mr. Sinatra.

Yes. No.

Oh, wrong, Frank. Wrong, Frank.

How about say who's who? Is God?

Are you serious? Do I need to tell you who his

mom is? No, how about that?

He's a Canadian kid I'm guessing.

He's Canadian. His mom is named Belinda.

Or is Tim. Tim Rufo used to say Belinder.

Yes, he did. Now that doesn't.

Mean acceptable pronunciation, by the way, Just a regionalism

people. They yes, that does not mean

he's not a great DJ or a great musician.

And I asked Aiden Butler the other day, I says, what's the

deal? You know, you you got Belinda's

daughter is or Belinda's son is the as the, you know, like one

of the main DJs and apparently he's pretty good.

And all Aiden said was we got him at a bargain.

So I don't know if I'm going to use that or not, but but anyway,

if he has been their musical act Booker for the last X number of

years, he's done a pretty good job.

You know, I mean, even though I think I mean, at the Preakness

we had Bruno Mars doing a 45 minute set that cost them a ton

of money. I don't know if it made him much

money but but. All the weather that year was so

miserable. Too, it was raining.

It was miserable. Yeah.

That was a lightning year, too. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you and I were

both there and. It was miserable.

It wasn't great so. Anyway, I wanted to, yeah, I

wanted to ask. So I'm looking at the index to

trainers on the past performances for Saturday.

There is no Pletcher, there is no Brown, there is no Cox.

Those people are not making the trip West of the Rockies.

Do you think the strata group is surprised there's no one there

for a $750,000 race or is it because of what we just talked

about? They all just sent their horses

to Kentucky down to run for 2,000,000 bucks.

I think there was a surprise and here's why.

And I, you know, I'm surprised there's no asmus and horses

here. Oh, that's another name.

You're right. He's not there either.

You're right. Yep.

Is it would seem to me that if I were a trainer and I'm not, nor

could I, as I have said in the past, even train a horse to get

out of its stall that they don't have, that they don't move some

horses out West just to get them ready for the Breeders Cup.

You know that, you know, even though it's a different track

you're training over, but you know, just like ship them out,

you know, put them on the the next FedEx truck or the FedEx

plane and send them out there. Now that that is, I'm, I'm just

surprised that that didn't happen.

I'm surprised they don't have better horses.

Is the is, is this race better than the Pacific Classic?

I think so. And the Pacific Classic was

pretty terrible. This isn't an all all ages race,

but you've got national treasure, you've you've got

Muth, you've got senior Buscador, but none of them are

horses that are going to, you know, like, you know, people at

home saying, Oh my God, let's go out and see Muth run.

You know, even though he's run or even though he's won like

what, two or three in a going through my PPS, he's won three

in a row and for the last five, I, I just don't think that's

going to happen. Yeah, no, I it's an interesting

that field not as interesting. Some of the turf fields are

interesting, but we didn't get any turf shippers either.

And what what you point out here is interesting that you know,

you've got a mile and 1/4 turf race.

If your horse is going to run a mile and a half in a month and

1/2, that actually sets up pretty OK, right, To give them

the four and a half, five weeks off, whatever it would be to get

ready for the Breeders Cup. So yeah, it was a little

surprising not to see those things, but I wanted to ask that

because when the entries came out and there was none of those

people, just absolutely none of them, it caught me off guard a

little. Yeah, and, and I asked Dayton

and he gave me the usual vague answer about whether they paid

the, the fee, you know, to ensure that I think it was like

a $3,000,000 bonus if you won the, the Preakness, the

California crown and the Pegasus.

And that would have been because it's usually about 20%.

So, you know, that would, that'd have been 4 or $500,000 whether

they paid it. He he did not answer it in a a

clear way, which means they might have, you know, just, you

know, roll the dice and said, OK, let's see.

Which would have been the smart way to do it because he's the

grey where the Preakness, you know, went to the Penn Derby and

won. He did win, that's right.

Where is Caesar Grey amongst the three-year olds this year?

I think he's #2 by the way. That's a, that's a really, you

know. In a sport where people don't

run their horses. And he'll run 9 times this year.

If he runs to the Breeders Cup, he wins the Preakness, he wins

the Pennsylvania Derby, he wins the Pat de Mile 2 weeks before

the Preakness. He's up the track of the Belmont

and the Travers. But if we're going to ask people

to run their horses, I'm not going to count the losses

against them. I'm going to count the wins.

And I look, I think 8 races between February and September

is pretty impressive. The fact that he won half of

them is is even more impressive. I agree.

You've also got fierceness. Where does he fit in there?

I think he's top right now. And you know Dora?

For sure. Yeah, for sure.

I think they're the top three. I think it's not a question.

And I, you know, I think we're going to have to see what the,

the Breeders Cup will determine who gets 3 year old male.

I think we know who's going to get 3 year old female, which I

would you know, OK if if Torpedo Anna wins the distaff.

Yeah, Yep. You going to vote for her as

horse of the year? Horse of the year?

No, because she beat a bunch of three-year old Phillies in a

crop that's not great. So who are you going to make?

Who are you going to vote? Breeders' Cup hasn't happened

yet. OK.

But I wouldn't even, I think amongst 3 year olds I would have

fiercest ahead of her because I think he's faced better

competition and had better results.

Yeah, but again, you know who's who's your best?

Horse. Of the year and is it going to

be the classic winner? But you know, I don't know, but

you know. I mean, that'll I'll be honest,

it'll piss me off if, you know, white barrio comes back, wins

the classic and didn't do anything this year and everybody

just votes him horse of the year because he wins the classic.

I What we don't need is for the Eclipse Awards to barely become

a Breeders' Cup. You know, win it in for the for

the Eclipse Award. Yeah, I, I, you know, I could, I

could make a case for the torpedo Anna, if she wins the.

I don't I don't think you're wrong about that.

They just yeah, Breeders' Cup Graces.

I, I I was working on something the other day about this

conversation and it just made me remember that modern games

didn't win it in 2022. So winning good races doesn't

matter. It doesn't matter.

He won the wood by Miley won the the Breeders Cup against older,

both of them against older horses and just no credit for it

at all. And epicenter or whatever.

Got it. Whatever.

Yeah. I mean, Epicenter was a, a,

let's just say a very tepid, tepid winner.

That's a good word. Yeah, and but anyway, you know,

we've got a couple races to go, although in most cases just one

race to go and then you come back.

Let's say Mystic Dan comes back and beats Nicos in the Malibu at

Santa Anita on December 26th. Does that put him in the

conversation? I would listen.

I would listen for sure if he's able to do that six months apart

or, oh gosh, in that case, seven months apart.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is Daisos back on the track? Can you update us on that?

I think he's back trading, but I don't think we'll see him before

the Malibu. I mean, that was the horse.

That was the horse. That no doubt, and he was the

one. He was the one that everyone had

him screaming and just let him out of his suspension.

Let's go. Yeah.

One booth, it was nice house so that booth runs for fun in the

Arkansas Derby. You know, if if Nice House were

healthy during the Triple Crown run, would Bob's owners have

come to the same conclusion as to exclude those horses from the

Triple, from the Kentucky Derby? My, my guess, just a guess.

I mean, I know, you know, I know the I know say Don.

I know Tom Ryan. I know those guys.

I would think no, I would think that they were here to move to

Timmy acting or just somebody and and run.

But you know the horses they had, Muth was the best.

Muth's a pretty good horse. He has a good horse.

He's a very. Good horse.

Muth is a good V + a minus horse.

I think maybe he's better. I hope he is.

You know, we'll, we'll find out something on Saturday, but.

That horse loves Santa Nina, man.

I think he's going to be tough. Yeah.

He's going to be tough on Saturday.

And I, I wonder the only, the only thing you know, we've,

we've laughed about Saint Arbuscadore, but you know, if he

if, if there is that pace, whatever that California Baffert

front running pace that booth is so good at, do we get, do we get

a pace breakdown in the race? And actually, you know, they're

at A at a track with a stretch like Santa Nina does.

Does Booskadour run him down on that?

I'm just not sure. We'll talk to a man that I am so

glad you introduced me to and John Lindo on Thursday about

that. Lindo's a great expert on he's

he's better on. Del Mar.

He's better on Del Mar than than Santa Anita, but he's still

pretty damn good on Santa Anita. He understands it all.

I mean he he hosts, I mean you have 5 radio shows a week and he

has 2 on Saturday and Sunday in Los in Los Angeles on 830 I

think. On 830 KLA baby.

Yeah. No, he's no they they do as good

a job doing horse racing, radios, anyone in the country.

They really do. Thoroughbred LA is awesome.

Yeah. And, and you know what?

John's is the good guy. He's he's the kind of guy that

you'd like to go out and have dinner with.

I've never had dinner with him. Maybe I will now.

But but he's, he's just and he and he's been around a long

time, so he understands. Oh, he's been in ownership.

He's been on this side of it. Yeah.

No, he, he's, he's done all of it for sure.

Yep. Yeah.

So you know, he's he's, you know, he's, he's a Southern

California stalwart that that I think we all need to pay

attention to. Yeah.

I agree. A Breeders' Cup Friday night

we're doing and I haven't announced this, so this is first

time. Oh.

Breaking news 46 minutes into the podcast with with with

Griff's owner John Sherba. We're doing a seminar for

Breeders' Cup at Excalibur Cigar and Scotch Bar in San Diego the

night before the classic. So that Friday night, the 1st of

November. And I want to know why you're

not coming to that, because I know you're not going to come.

No, because it's Friday night and I'll, I'll, you know, the

truth is, OK, it could be Tuesday night and I'd probably

say no, I'm not going to be there.

But you know, Friday is. It the cigars, is it the Scotch?

Is it needing to go to bed because you're an old man?

Like what is it? What what are those three does?

What if they have Chardonnay? What if you found out their

Chardonnay? You know, I I'd consider it, but

it is it is, it is in San Diego, which is going to be at least 30

to 45 minutes from Oh yeah, Del Mar.

So so there's that possibility as to to why, But, you know, I

mean, we'll, we'll see how things are going to see how the

week's going, see what crises happen.

But but you're having this event at a cigar bar in but there were

no cigar bars in Delmar or what Do you think that like the, the

group, the the there wouldn't be enough people?

I I went where they were willing to have us.

OK. Essentially it it maps out to

about 30 minutes during traffic to get to Excalibur from Delmar.

OK. And to me, 1/2 hour drive in

South Southern California is like a 10 minute drive for me

here. Yeah, you're right.

And and plus, most of us are staying South of Del Mar.

We are, yeah. I'm at the the Media Hotel, the

Embassy Suites and you are at like AB and B somewhere or what?

Yeah, we're staying on the Marina, actually in San Diego.

I'm excited. OK, I see.

You know, if I could live in any one city in America, it would

probably be San Diego. The problem is I I can't afford

it. Yeah, no, right.

I I can't. You're not the only person that

feels that way. And I know that because of the

housing prices. That's right.

Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Well, cool. I Del Mar hosting Breeders' Cup

the next two years. Financially, we know how the

Breeders Cup model works, where Breeders' Cup keeps a certain

amount of money after a certain threshold.

Is it something, though that's pretty important to the

California tracks? Do they make more money than

they would normally on those days?

Yeah, they do simply because of the, the handle and you know,

they're going to have a full house probably about 35,000

escalated food and beverage costs, you know, parking costs.

You know, I didn't oh, you know, one of the things.

OK, let's let's talk a positive about California Crown.

If I'm correct, I believe parking is free.

And you remember with your with your media pass, what did

parking cost for the the the Breeders Cup last year?

60 or $80.00, something like that.

It was 70 on Friday and 80 on Saturday.

OK, now, now you probably had better, you know, a better deal

than I did. You were probably in like the

150, you know, dollar parking prices, you know, because.

I didn't pay for parking. Oh, how'd, how'd you do that?

I have a very popular podcast. I don't know.

No, I don't know. I I don't pay when I go to these

things. I don't know.

Wow, Well, did you have to pay for parking?

I, I didn't, I didn't personally pay for it, but I, you know, I

got the, the tag that said $80.00 and $70.

Right, but you're but the times didn't pay for that, did they?

No, no, they. Didn't Oh, oh, OK, OK, OK, OK,

OK. But, but if I were just if, if I

were a a, a customer, that's what I would have paid.

Right, that's a lot. And that's a lot.

I mean, that's, you know, 7080 dollars you can get, you know, a

great dinner for to it like seasons 52 for that, you know

which. Yeah.

Well, that's. Right.

It's a pretty, it's a nice chain in Florida and and New York and

other places, maybe not Kentucky.

I think I think your top top restaurant is cracker.

Barrel or Cracker Barrel, Waffle House is right there.

Yeah. You can get really nice service

at a place called IHOP here. Oh yeah, that's fantastic.

That's fantastic. We we recently got a French

restaurant here called Aplabe APPLEB EE SI.

Don't think you pronounce the SI.

Heard someone say Applebee's but I'm pretty sure it's French and

it's pronounced Aplabe. OK.

Applebee's. No, nothing.

Applebee's jokes. We go to sit on those, or are

they? No, we, we actually.

As far as food towns, Louisville's fine.

But yeah, 80 bucks, it goes a long way for dinner in

Louisville, for sure. I could.

I could take my family of six out for dinner for 80 bucks in

this town for sure. So, so what's, what is what's

your top restaurant that you can somehow leverage this podcast

that very few people will listen to into getting like a free meal

for, for you and, and, and your wife and your 14 children at you

know, by, by a good plug. On the podcast, it's a place

called Blind Squirrel. It's a a stand alone.

Oh man, now we're vacuuming. That is vacuuming in the

background. Thank you.

There we go working hard, hardly working the it's called Blind

Squirrel Sports Bar in the East End of Louisville, east side,

really close to our house actually my kids eat there for

free all the time and then on the radio show it's a place

called Martini medium to upscale Italian place not terribly far

from our house and they have a nice brunch on the weekend so

you. Go.

OK, Well, I remember you and Mike and flatter and I went to a

really great, I think it was an Italian restaurant that.

You. Oh yeah.

Porcini's. Yeah.

That place is incredible, Yeah. Yeah, so, but but you, you, you.

Man, I recall, I recall some very unattractive man playing

paying for dinner that night. I can't remember who it was he

got in trouble with his wife. Might have been me.

Like, honey, I'm writing it off on the podcast.

Podcast Paying for dinner. Let's go.

So, yeah, no, I, I, I, you know, as as many times as I've been to

the Derby, I rarely remember you actually inviting me out to

dinner. Although we, although we have

invited you a few times, but you usually just say you know, do

you know? My favorite thing is flattered.

Tells me all the people he hates that are coming to the dinner.

And then he says, do you want to go?

And at some point I got to be like, wait, you hate these four

people that are coming and you want me to show up?

No, we're not doing this. That's not that's not how this

works. Though I do regret the last one

only because I haven't had dinner with him.

I've spent time with him, but I haven't had dinner with Kornacki

yet. He's good, good guy.

Jumps on this show. And and so I regret not breaking

bread with one Steve Kornacki. Well, I will tell you that it

was supposed to be four of us for dinner with Kornacki, a

flatter myself, probably the producer.

And it's like we're at the NBC hotel and all the NBC people

started showing up and they all want to have dinner with us.

And if you're Steve Kornacki, you can just go over to the to

the the the Hostess, the host station.

And suddenly we're in our own private room with about 12 of us

with, with, you know, with like, you know, Kenny Main and Larry

Cole this and, you know, a lot of.

Marty Smith is there from ESPN. Oh yeah.

A lot, a lot of the, the NBC people.

So yeah, Kornacki is is gold. I I'm not sure how much we'll

see him in November because. He's yeah, election time.

He ain't. I'm not even I sent him an

e-mail. I he put it on Twitter.

So I think it's, it's, it's public, but his his mother

passed away. I know that.

Steve Steve did an episode of the podcast from his parents

vacation home. And so I said, wow, there's

actually a happy hour connection to your mom of all things.

And I just remember off air before talking to him and and

just how happy he was to be there.

It was so clear he had a great relationship with his parents.

So I hate, I hated hearing about his mom, but but yeah, he he

said, Oh yeah, I gave out a losing risen star pick from

their house. It's a great it's a great little

text, but no, I think he's going to be a little busy.

I did laugh, though, because he was, so I don't, I don't know

the best word, but he wanted to get away from the politics, so

he needed a distraction a little bit.

And he did the Traverse show during the Democratic National

Convention. Oh wow.

OK. He was like, I'm going to be

looking at those past performances all week anyway,

let's hang out. Let's do it so that you get.

Some time I will. I will say that for those who,

which is probably almost all your audience who do not know

Steve Kornacki, he is truly one of the nicest guys.

It's unbelievable, it really is. That that I mean, he is huge and

he takes time out to talk to people like myself and Louis and

and that's right, flatter and whoever.

And he acts like we're, he acts like we're exactly same level

colleagues. All the time.

Like it? Yeah.

There's no, there's no levels, there's no barriers, anything

like that. I mean, I emailed him about his

mom, John. I heard back in like 25 minutes.

I mean, I emailed him too and I and I got a a response also.

So yeah. I'm I'm not surprised by that at

all, but. So.

And he, he's, he's more into horses than us.

And he's he does something else for.

A living yeah, he is he is however big you think he is,

he's bigger. So OK so let's let's close this

up here the the the crown. I guess you'll you'll you'll

handicap it on your. On your Thursday, Yep, usual

live show. Yep, Yep, it's the Friday show

for you, John. We released that Thursday

nights. Nice.

I'm glad by the way, you are not alone.

We have, we have a couple couple 1000 people that download every

Friday morning for sure. So you can watch the number as

soon as 8:00 AM Eastern hits, the number just starts to tick

up and tick up and tick up. So go ahead, I'm sorry.

Yes, and and oh, by the way, you know, sometimes your show posts

late is, is that is that up? Is that you screwing up or or

what? What's going on?

If it posted late this last week, it was my fault.

If it posted late before that, it was everyone else's fault.

OK. So of which you are among the

everybody else. Yeah, well, nowadays there is

nobody else. It's just me and Zach.

So working through those things. So this is a fun chance.

Then we'll wrap up with this, Should I go get another Co host

or is Louis Rebo a a stand alone guy at this point?

You know, I think what you ought to do and I don't want to, you

know, steal from, from flatter show.

OK. But I do like the first ten.

I'm not suggesting I'd I'd be part of your show, but I do like

the 1st 10 minutes with Flattr and the last five minutes with

Flattr is that you have someone to talk to on the front end.

Maybe it's Zach, you know, I don't know.

And then someone to close it out.

But then you know, since you've got you've gone a lot more to

guests since since your early years.

And I think that's been terrific.

You know when you're you know, you're back and forth with

illman and and you know. Well, I like.

I like. Johnny P Yeah, I talk about.

Yeah, I talk about it on the show and I think, you know, I

hope people understand I'm, I'm being genuine about it.

I like the regionality of horse racing and I like talking to

people around the country about it.

You know, I just do. And so, you know, if you know, I

miss, I miss, for example, like getting Jose Contreras on the

show to talk locile and do those things.

I'm gonna try to really making it, you know, you know, like

talk in December with him around the low self futurity, that kind

of stuff and really pause to do those things.

We we had Dinnerman on for years when no one else was talking

Golden Gate naturally, you know, that kind of stuff.

So no, I don't think that part of the show will go away, but I

don't hate the idea of having that.

I want to do more conversations like this early in the week.

I don't want to call it Evergreen content, but stuff

that you could listen to this in two weeks and go, oh, OK, well,

they were right about this, They were right about this, that kind

of stuff. Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's tough

for any one individual to carry the whole show, especially

because you do your own handicapping.

I mean that, that, that, you know, that's real personal.

And so I, you know, I, I think you can be the main host.

I might look for someone that could or maybe a guest, you

know, a, a guest, whatever, But you know, well, it it's a it's

a, it's a work in progress. I mean, let's be honest, Mike

missed his fair show, fair amount of shows when he was off,

you know, gallivanting across the country or if not the world

and you know, maybe even bring him back every every once in a

while, you know, every every couple months or whatever.

But you know, it's it's tough to do what is used to be a 45

minute show, which is now like an hour and 5 to 10 minute show.

You know, and I I have these same disagreements with flatter

that. I think oh his show is way

longer than mine. Don't do that to me.

His show is way longer than. Mine his show is way longer than

I I I remember when I wrote A-100 inch story on Baffert and

he was ripping me saying oh boy, I don't think I'll ever find the

time to read that. And I said it'll still be

shorter than your show and and and it is.

So anyway, we're we probably, you know, like hit, you know,

let's see here is the is the scale of the of the listeners

like dropping off now at this point, I mean.

They either listen to the 1st 5 minutes and drop off or they

listen to the whole show. We have weirdly, yes, we have

strangely loyal folks that stick through these episodes, but we

are at 61 minutes right now. His name is God Shirva.

He's with the Los Angeles Times, latimes.com/sports and of course

at J Shirva JCHERWA. If you happen to still be on

Twitter these days, John, appreciate it.

Safe travels. I have high hopes for you

getting out of your your airport there in Florida to go to

California where hurricanes at least are not an issue.

Mudslide surefire, sure, but a hurricanes not as much.

Yeah, I, I, you know, I'm, I think what I think will happen

is they'll probably shut down the airport at like 9:00 AM on

Thursday and my flight's at at 7:00.

And then we'll probably have to go north and, and then, you

know, to cut across. It'll probably be like a rather

than a. A 445 flight will be a five hour

and 15 minute flight, whatever. Is it direct so you'll land at

like 9:00 nine? 30 time Oh that's cool.

That's cool. Yeah, I like that Yep.

And then I've got I've got lunch and dinner set up for Thursday,

so and and Friday night too, so you know, it's.

Our guy. There it is.

And nodded. Excalibur, Cigar.

There you go. He's John Serva.

We thank you for joining us here on the Horse Racing Happy Hour.

Thank you, John. You bet.