Steve Kornacki – Eclipse Awards 2023

Here we go. Clips Boats Edition Horse Racing

Happy Hour hanging out with Steve Kornacki.

I'm Louis Rebbeau. We got you for the next however

long Steve decides to hang out with this ridiculous show.

So question for you, young Steve Kornacki.

Do you realize you've made a very serious decision by being

on the show again today? I What's the serious decision I

made? OK, so every person that makes a

repeat appearance on the happy hour becomes a friend of the

show. Are you prepared?

Oh, you need to be a friend of the show.

I'd be honored to be considered one.

Well, how about that little Steve Kornacki, friend of the

show, like here, December 28th edition.

Obviously that means we're talking eclipse vote.

Steve, you and I have a very few things in common.

We're both Americans, we're both dudes, and we get the vote on

the Eclipse Awards because we're in the same class of the NTWAB

of all things. Growing up, did you think you'd

be the rolled up sleeves guy on NBC?

And did you think you'd get an Eclipse vote?

No, I didn't know the first role would ever exist and the the

second role no. But I'm I'm glad to have both.

Yeah, no, it's it's a lot of fun.

It's also stunningly time consuming if you take this

seriously, I think. What is Steve's process?

I know you and I both did this for the first time last year.

What's your Do you go category by category?

Do you try to sit down in one sitting and do this, or does

this take you multiple days? What's your process?

I thought last year for me at least, was instructive because I

learned what some of what to do and some of what not to do.

And I I think I put off a lot till the end last year.

And so it felt more like in in some cases cramming you know for

the the final exam the night before.

So I was much more I think conscientious throughout the

year this year to take note of certain horses, certain races,

just certain trends, whatever that that I I recognized I'd I'd

probably want to remember and think of as I was filling out

the ballot. So I really I I think I I made

it much more of a year round process this year and you know

kind of watched races more with an eye to the specific

categories in mind. So and I think though this year

it was, I don't know your experience was, but last year

most of the categories were layups for the winners and I

think there were some tough ones this year.

Yeah. No, there's no flight line this

year, right? Is the one of the things for

sure that stands out. three-year old male.

I I didn't agree with the winner last year.

You may have voted for essential quality, but I did not.

I thought Modern Games was a better three-year old last year

in the North American circuit. So I I maybe small disagreements

with people, but I'm with you. Even on the 2 year old side, it

was pretty obvious who was going to win last year, but let's

start with that, that category, one of the more difficult ones,

I think 3 year old male, something we concentrate a lot

on, something you work on with the Triple Crown with your

coverage there on NBCI. Think Archangelo is going to get

a lot of votes here Steve, just because obviously the the

results on the track, four straight wins to close his

career there in a maiden special wins to grade three and then two

grade ones. I think people like the Jenna

Antonucci story. She's been on this show and

she's, I mean she's delightful. It's really hard to root against

her but there are some other options in here But man Steve

this is A to be this is the grand what if year of three-year

old right. And and that's really how good

could 2 fills have been had he kept running How good could a go

rocket ride Been out at Santa Anita in the Breeders Cup

classic this year. This practical move with a bunch

more races if he's able to run. Where did you land in this one?

And did you have a similar sort of reaction that I did?

Yeah. And what?

What if Flint had been able to run in the Derby and got off to

a better, you know, I mean, yeah, I I agree with you.

There's a lot of kind of incompletes in this category.

I think you're right just I I went with Archangelo because I

think it was the most complete of the incompletes.

You know when you can have a a Belmont and a Traverse, you got

two grade ones. You know the Peter, Peter Pan is

you know not too bad either and you just look what what the

alternatives are here. And I, you know Mays got off to

the great start but couldn't win the you know couldn't win the

the Preakness go rocket ride incredible.

What if I I think I I put go Rocket ride second in this one

and I put you know I looking around I put Arabian night third

you know Arabian Night who beat go rocket ride in the Pacific

classic lost to him in the in the Haskell had a graded you

know graded win at Oak Lawn early in the year just a romp

Arabian. You know, Knight to me is a what

if, too, 'cause he was just, he was sidelined, you know, for so

much of the year. And I just wonder if he'd been

more consistently in training, if if he would have had a bigger

year. How He just showed so much

potential to me. But that's true with with so

many of these. So yeah, I just thought

Archangelo and the strength of those two grade ones, there were

a lot of horses in here who were probably 1-1 more grade, one

away from, you know, from being right up there.

But I just think in the end it's the most complete resume.

Steve, moving on then to three-year old Phillies, sort of

sort of an interesting year on this side as well.

You gave a ceiling crusher ahead of her, her win in the cotillion

there in the the wettest I've ever seen a racetrack there at

Parks this year they cancelled everything except for what they

were doing there. Obviously you know we had some

different horses come along this year.

Defining purpose is the one I think that stands out as the one

that could have been another one of these sort of on the outside,

pretty mischievous runs off a bunch of races in the middle of

the year that I think put her in very unusual category here.

Almost picks off that cotillion right there behind Ceiling

Crusher. How much do you look at horses

like Moge for example, that only run a couple of times in North

America, run against very good competition when the QE 2 for

example, come back, run really well against the boys in that

Breeders' Cup mile finishes ahead of horses that I think

could be considered for an eclipse award on the turf side.

Where do you lean here? More on the dirt side with the

three-year old Phillies? Or is the turf totally OK with

you? I do learn more towards the dirt

and I do lean. I know the rule on this and it's

it's, it's interesting to hear the discussions around it is One

North American start. You just need One North American

start and you are eligible. So make of that guidance what

you will. But to me, I think mentally I I

need now you got two here. If you're going to have a career

that's or a season it's mainly based overseas and you're going

to come over and it's going to be 1-2, maybe three races In my

view. You pretty much got to win them

all. And I I like a horse like Moge.

You know with a full season here I think would have won a ton and

and I think would absolutely be up for this award in my mind.

But I think there's just a little I put a little extra

burden on a horse's only run here twice, came close.

Very, very close as you say, you know against the boys on the

biggest stage. But ultimately, A turf horse

based overseas who goes one for two here is not going to be

enough for me. And did you lean on?

Pretty mischievous has your choice here.

Yeah, I I did. I mean, you know technically

it's three grade one wins the test stakes at Saratoga this

summer that was the tragic one where Maple Leaf Mill had it won

and in pre mischievous even even, you know the trainer said

this was not a win for pre mischievous.

So I don't count that. But on the other hand as you

mentioned the cotillion at parks half a length from another grade

one there. So two grade ones technically a

third could have been another one there.

So I just think that's the most consistent elite performance of

all these horses. I I looked at randomized you

know the best second-half of the season and if randomized had

been able to get up and win that that distaff.

I think randomized runs away with this category but falling

just short there. I think it was just a more

consistently elite season for a previous choice.

Yeah, I think you and I are the same here.

We haven't totally turned our votes in yet, and I'm leading

right now toward randomized. I'll be really honest.

I'm I I count that Breeders' Cup distaff more than I count a

restricted race against other three-year olds in the Cotillion

for example. So for me I would lean on

randomizing this thought but I totally understand.

Pretty mischievous and she won a lot of different ways too Steve

she wins the two turns in the Kentucky Oaks she wins the fair

wins runs second and that fairgrounds Oaks going two turns

comes back in the 8 cord over one turn wins there.

So she showed a lot of different styles and was able to win in

those. So if someone voted for her, I

definitely would would not take any kind of grief with that, for

sure. So older dirt male.

Good luck with this one. Do you think that our guy, a

friend of the show, Whiteabario, who's actually never been on the

show, do you think, do you think there's a chance that he just

outperformed horses in two races and they were easily the the

most visibly dominating races this year and he ends up

winning? Yeah, I mean that's I'm seeing a

lot of buzz there and this is such a tough one for me because

you've got, in my view you've got three horses in contention

here who do three different things.

One is a pure sprinter that's elite power, at least in my

view, who's in in contention in this category.

Then you've got White a barrio who has this unbelievable turn

around in the middle of the season and you know is you know

can run the classic distance can stretch out and and then you got

Cody's Wish who's kind of in the middle not a pure sprinter but

they took the shot at Saratoga this summer to go a mile and an

eighth I think with an eye obviously towards running in the

Breeders Cup Classic. It went terribly.

Goes back to the dirt mile see you've got you know it's it's

tough to compare these horses you know in my view when you're

looking at this what holds me back on White Abario is I don't

want to overrate. They were two great performances

and I I'm excited to see what that horse can do next year.

But the totality of the season, the totality that worked for me

puts Cody's wish on top there. Just you know from start to

finish there's you know the one blemish is the mile and an

eighth every time at a mile or 7.

Furlongs source. One grade one grade 2.

Just consistent. I don't know how you're supposed

to wait in the the kind of the story around Cody's wish, the

the just incredible kind of, you know, what it did for racing to

get that kind of attention. I don't know if that's if that's

worth considering the sentimental value of it.

I think a lot of voters from what I hear are going to do

that. And I I just think that was, you

know, it was a little more success in terms of number of

races for for Cody's wish than for elite power.

So I went Cody's wish, elite power, and I put White Abario

third. Yeah.

I think that's a good trio, and I think you'll be in good

company that way. A horse I'm considering putting

in my top three just because he ran so damn much this year and

he won the best finish I saw in the Pimlico specialist rattle

and roll. He might get a third place vote

for me just because he runs the he runs the the Pimlico special.

Comes back and runs the the Ben Ali.

Not even wait, wait, wait. I got to get the order right

here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He runs the blame after that. Two weeks later at Churchill

Downs. I just love that kind of stuff.

Just kind of, you know. Oh, they can't run the triple

crowd. It's too close together.

They rattle and rolls like sure, I'll.

I'll deal with traffic. That's not a problem.

No, no issue at all. So he might get a vote for me

just for how he finished it out. Let's move on to that.

Oh, I just, yeah, I was going to say that.

To me, that's interesting. As a voter.

I'm curious what your experience with it is.

That third place slot. I don't know if it's an

invitation sometimes. Sometimes there's a clear top

three, but sometimes it's an invitation, I think, to get a

little creative and and reward something that's short of kind

of a complete season, but you think deserves some recognition.

I think there's a couple categories here where I did

that. Yeah.

And I think well and frankly if if you're you know the way that

you just talked about Cody's wish, if if you can use that

part of the story to vote for clubs awards, why can't I use

something, some other kind of criteria to vote for Rattleable.

So that's you know that's how I would look at that for sure.

I voted, for example, second place in breeders last year for

Ashby Farm because they had the top two.

They have about 20 Brood mares. They had the top two finishers

in the Belmont last year. Yeah, that's exactly them.

That's a cool story. I mean and I think that's that's

the kind of stuff if you can, I mean that's that's high level

stuff for someone breeding twenty horses.

Yeah, I had in the trainer category last year.

I mean, I think a lot did I put Sadler in there because of

Flight 1, You know, stat wise he didn't measure up, but you train

that horse. I think you deserve a vote.

Yeah, I think that's a reasonable take as well.

Let's move on to those older dirt females.

This is a lot less listed horses than usual in this category.

This is usually one on this show, Steve, that we tell people

to really pay attention to because look, if Colt's good,

he's done after he's three and he never races again.

These Phillies, we might see him at 4:00 and 5:00 if they're

really, really good running his mayors and this year just a

little bit less, you know, obviously.

Secret off. Goodnight, olive EZ.

Idiomatic. The quality is there.

The quantity simply is not. Yeah.

And I mean it was a year we talked about this a little bit

too earlier. Just the the what ifs.

There's a lot of what ifs I think in this category.

Huge expectations for Nest coming into this year and just

you know didn't really deliver. Secret Oath coming back starting

the year out with the win in the Azeri and you thought wow this

this horse is due for a big year and maybe a really fun rivalry

with Claire. And then they had that Apple

blossom, that really weird 4 horse Apple blossom and and

Secret Oath just gets caught at the wire.

But then she had a couple of those and then she had the

injury late in the year. You know she's one you know

could have been without the injury.

I think she might have been able to make some noise in the

spinster maybe even into this staff who knows.

But there was only one horse in this in this category who I

think had a complete year. And it's it's clearly idiomatic

and it's just that the the volume, the number of races,

number of different tracks, the different levels, just the

consistency of success. Clear ear for instance, yeah,

wins the apple blossom early in the year, second in the Azeri,

but they're really, I think tailed off at the end of the

year. And you know, there's a Dare

Manor from out West, but I just think the quality that that she

was running against just does not measure up.

So this is what this was a category where I really thought,

I there's three slots on my ballot.

I only had use for one. I'm going to fill out the other

two. But idiomatic to me is just the

runaway. Yeah, you know, I agree with

you. And I think she's kind of an

interesting tale of the modern horse.

Forget where they break their maiden sometimes.

If they can run, they can run, right?

And she's one of those horses, for sure.

Is she a Turfway maidener? She is.

I mean, that kind of stuff. It just once in a while it just

stands out that you know they like you said if they could just

run on any surface. I mean you know, and I I was not

surprised she won the distaff, but I was surprised at how

easily she got the the lead and then was able to maintain those

things as well. A horse like EZ, is she going to

get in your top three? Is it clear ear?

Do you prefer the two turners in this kind of race, or is the

sprinter OK with you? A sprinter could be OK and it

but it you know and it's look unfortunately it's an injury

talk about the the modern realities of racing.

They race so much fewer to begin with.

Injuries happen and I think there's obviously a tendency,

I'm not saying that happened in the case of EZ obviously, but

there's a tendency to be even more sensitive around injuries.

And so it's just I I need, I would need to me in this

category, I would need to see more than the three races in the

one grade one even though you just look at those three races

and you said boy if this horse had been able to run six or

seven times this year, I mean this horse might have been six

and O, 7 and O and just a ascension this category.

But I just it's it's too much what could have been, what

should have been, what might have been to me to to get a vote

here. There you go.

All right, well, let's go ahead and talk about the juveniles.

We'll get to the 2 year olds now going back by the way, shout out

the nice people I know. Steve's looking at his as well.

The DRF folks send us these nice packets for the Eclipse Awards

so that we can have all of the information right in front of us

in one place. It also is a touch of nostalgia,

Steve. A printed piece of paper that

you can hold in your hand. How about that kids?

This is called paper, just so you know.

All right, so 2 year old male man, I thought this was the fun

one. I was trying to figure out who

the juvenile winners were. I think last year we had a

little bit more clarity. Forte was so obviously better in

the fall. Last year we had some

interesting Phillies too as well.

Last year. This year, man, all over the

place. Wine, Stewart, Prince of Monaco,

Liberal Arts, Loch Butte. No day.

Mets is just faster than blazes. Just all kinds of horses all

over the place. Timberlake.

Unquestionable, endlessly. Otter Marie won that Kentucky

Jockey Club here at Churchill Downs.

Boy oh boy, Steve, where'd you land?

Well, yeah, and this is, look, this is a category.

I forgot what the stat is exactly but the the Breeders Cup

Juvenile winner basically gets this one it seems by default

every year in part just because it's clearly the biggest 2 year

old race of the year and there's just such a limited body of work

with a lot of these. You just you just see the

potential in in so many of these so in a lot of these horses who

obviously won't be on my ballot won't make the top three.

I I look at as legit prospects that monster years as three-year

olds obviously it's a big question in in a lot of

different ways but yeah I mean I just I thought fierceness.

Look it's it's it's three races looks brilliant in the in the

first race you know gets the off track in the champagne gets back

on a fast surface in the in the Breeders Cup juvenile and it's

it's a runaway and I just to me that's that's enough to be #1 in

this category. Yeah, I mean, I think you could

just even look at speed figures and go, OK, this is an improving

horse. He was the best at the end of

the year. Maybe I just throw it there,

man. I really wish no day Mets had

won at the Breeders Cup because then I think we'd have to have a

conversation. And I hated for him that he lost

the big EPS who ran one, you know, one race here and all of a

sudden he's on this list. It's not vote for that horse.

He's only been on here in North America for one race.

But I really, I really do wish he had run more or you know a

horse like locked or something like that.

One of the Breeders cup juvenile with a little bit more of a of a

resume behind it. But yeah, no interesting,

interesting category. And frankly, if you were, if you

were a betting man, Steve, which I know you are, would you bet

that fierceness qualifies for the Kentucky Derby or does not

qualify the Kentucky? Oh, interesting.

That's what this show's all about.

Steve. No, I, well, I I like the horse.

So I'm going to I I don't think, I don't think there's anything.

I think that surface might have made all the difference in the

in the one loss there and 'cause it's it's two dominant

performances and one on a on a wet track.

So yeah, I I think so. It's also, I mean, if we want to

go down the list, Repoli, Pletcher, Velasquez or Iran,

like everything's there, right? Everything's there for that

horse to have a really really good early spring and into

spring ahead of the Kentucky Derby had qualified that way.

If I had to lean rare, rare for me but I would lean on

fierceness being one of the 20 starters on the 1st Saturday in

May on the 2 year old side trying to get see if we can

figure out who the oak starters might be here.

Man this one's all over the place.

Hard to justify winning obviously in the the juvenile

Philly mare turf Utterflavia and Pratt you've got.

Jeez, I mean just candy. You got Buchi, you got bright

work you got live talk just FYI. Horses all over the place Steve.

This was a stunning number of horses.

Phoebe's dream was really good for a stretch a horse that I got

to see in person. I'm trying after last year with

Hoosier Philly not to let those things stick too hard.

This year. Phoebe's dream would be that

horse for sure. Where did Steve Kradacke land on

this one? Yeah, it's interesting you

mentioned Hoosier Philly because that was the the one coming out

of the the two year old season the the performances were

visually. Stunning.

But the seed figures never quite matched it and and that was I

always had hesitation and then yeah that was kind of the year

she has a three-year old didn't live up to the the expectations.

I always say that because I I voted.

You know again this is like the male category.

I I think there's just a lot of weight that's going to be placed

on the juvenile Phillies and I think just the NYI 3 for three

you know two grade ones. I think you you just have to

just because on paper that's going to be about the best A2

year old can do. The speed figures are not.

There are some more impressive speed figures for a lot of

these. For some of these two year old

Phillies. So I'm not sure what that's

going to translate into as a three-year old.

I would like if I was looking ahead.

I don't think just FYI is my top you know, Philly prospect next

year. There are some others in here

but I just think the resume to me takes me to just FYI this is

one you were asking about you know giving a hike compared to

turf horses and the dirt horses. I did use just hard to justify

in this one 3 for three on the term Breeders' Cup win again

just resume. I think you got to reward that

And then I just, I I used candied I thought you know right

there in in the in the Breeders cup has the Alcibiades and and a

win before that. So that was my top three for

this. But yeah, I just, I I put a lot

in that juvenile Phillies only because there's there's just so

little else for these two year olds.

Yeah, I thought back for training.

Nothing like you was another interesting one.

Won her last three races of the year.

She goes 7 furlongs in that. Desi Arnaz at Del Mar, comes

back at LaSalle over the two turns in the Starland and the

grade two and wins that one. I think she'll get a vote for

me. Maybe not for first place, but I

think she'll be in my top three for sure.

Man, I'm leading toward hard to justify on top.

I was just so. Impressed with her this.

Year. She's really just really just an

impressive, impressive Philly and so interested to see what

they do with her in the spring because that three-year old

Philly, it's it's a stunning number of races, Steve that we

actually have set aside for just three-year old Phillies on the

turf. And so if she can keep her form

together, she can have another really, really big year and

really, I think, force us into looking at her as the three-year

old Philly candidate next year when we talk about these awards,

Did you as well? Did you, I'm curious what you

made of. Did you give any thought to

Tamara in this category? Oh, sure.

I really wish she had run better when we were out there for the

Breeders Cup because I do find her to be a really interesting

Philly as well. And the story there when we

talked to, I don't know if you listened to Thoroughbred LA and

all with John Lindo and those guys.

But we talked to John about this horse I remember ahead of that

the debutante at Del Mar. He's like this this, this is the

one she's going to she's going to turn out she's going to be

the one. And so I hate how she, how it

turned out in Santa Anita a month later for two months

later, I should say, for that Breeders' Cup Juvenile Phillies.

But yeah, I mean, I looked at her, but I I mean, it's hard to

mess with the record of a hard to justify or a justify.

It just just feels that way. And by the way, justify showing

up more and more. And there's a reason that his

stud fee is now private. So there you go.

That's at least I have that in common with justify.

No one knows what my stud fee is.

All right. So let's go to trainers next.

I think that's another tough spot here.

And I think there's a lot of different ways, Steve, to

approach this category. In other words, is it wins, Is

it starts? Is it graded wins?

Is it, is it earnings, all of those kinds of things.

I will tell you right now, I think I'm leaning toward Chad

Brown because I think his stakes record this year was incredible.

And I think he for all of the other, you know all the things

about New York and Kentucky and his he he only runs in a very

specific number of places. It's actually very interesting.

I was doing a, you know, a piece on my Derby top five the other

day and I went, I wonder where he ships his Derby.

He doesn't ship his Derby horses.

They just run in Aqueduct and then they run in Belmont and

then they're ready for the Derby if if they are or not.

Essentially I think I'm leading Chad Brown.

I have Brad Cox right there with him, a rare year where I'm not

probably putting Bob Baffert in my top three just and that's

something I haven't said. I, you know, I've been doing

these interviews for 3-4 years. I've been voting.

Obviously this is my second year, but I didn't think I'd say

that. But you know, a guy like Belmont

had a really exceptional year as well.

Where's Steve Kornacki? This was this was one of the

hardest categories, you know, for me and I I kind of I well,

this is also one as we're talking, I still have a few days

to change my mind and I am, I am tempted to do something with a

third place. But I was saying this earlier

where you kind of get a little creative and there's there's I

have a thought here on the 3rd place vote and I'm curious I'll

run it by you what you think of it but yeah I, I, I pretty sure

I'm going with Cox on top OK grade one wins just you know

number of winners all you know things like that.

I right now I have Bill Mott 2nd and you know he's I think he's

there with ten grade ones you know compared to 15 and or 12

excuse me. And I to me it was I looked at

my horse of the year list and I said two of my final three were

trained by Bill Mott. So you know if you got Cody's

wish and you got elite power and it's the same trainer I think

that's worth something you know the three Breeders' Cup of wins

I start looking at. I said there's a quality over

quantity argument there. I think with with Mott, so I put

him second. Now third is where it gets

interesting because logically that's where I wouldn't go to.

I'm going to put Chad Brown at the very, very logical, you

know, part of my head wins out on this.

And for all the reasons you just said, if you go off the beaten

path here it's going to be Rick Dutrow.

And it's because you know, comes back in the middle of the year

off a 10 year ban and trains the Breeders Cup Classic winner.

And it's not just taking over a horse who was already in

grateful. I mean White Abario looked

finished to a lot of people and he gets that horse going, you

know, in the MIT mile and then just takes off Whitney Breeders'

Cup Classic and all of a sudden we're talking about you know the

best older dirt male in the country potentially.

So that turn around job winning a couple of others, I mean he

turned around, you know a week after that Breeders' Cup and and

won the great stakes. So it's one of those.

The stats obviously aren't there, but the accomplishment,

the singular accomplishment of White Abario?

With all of the other factors at play, I'm I'm tempted to put in

3rd there. Yeah, I'm always fascinated too

by but because I imagine a lot of 2nd and 3rd place votes are

going to go to places like Jenna Antonucci, right.

And I I think if if you applied dual logic about Bill Mott to

her right, smaller barn got Archangelo to a level that we

didn't see with another three-year old dirt male for

example. If you wanted to make that

argument, I think I would. I would listen for sure.

It wouldn't be on my ballot. I think I would listen to it for

sure. Other people that I just like

like I think Mike Maker is such an interesting trainer just

switching surfaces kind of has a Doug O'Neill east of the Rocky

Mountains. Kind of like why not us, You

know figure it out kind of attitude, which I like a guy

like Larry Ravelli who's you know, balling out at Hawthorne

and Turfway in different places like that.

I have a soft spot for these smaller tracks and that sort of

thing. But yeah, no, just an

interesting, it's actually an interesting year if you wanted

to get down into the weeds of things.

You know, Brittany Russell is an incredible trader on the

Maryland circuit. And I I'm sure she's not going

to get many votes, but I think she, you know, if you voted for

her, I think it would be totally acceptable.

We haven't brought up, you know, traders like Brendan Walsh or

Doug O'Neill or Graham Motion or any of those guys who've done a

great job as well. But it's going to be it's going

to be the best I I the guy I didn't mention that now that

you've made your case about Bill Mott that I might put in mind is

Todd Fletcher because he had the best 2 two year olds in my

opinion. So I think there's a chance that

that's the guy that I'll end up putting at the top of my list.

All right jockey. Speaking of Speaking of the next

category here, IRAD is probably going to win this thing, and I

don't think it's a bad thing that IRAD would win again

because I do think he's the most talented jockey that we have in

North American racing. After him, though, who?

Who is Steve Kornacki leaning on?

I'm doing my best in my head to get away from focusing in on

Tyler Gaffilion, who I see right a lot because I finish my show

at noon less than a mile from Churchill Downs and I leave the

studio and then I go watch Tyler win 5 races a day at Churchill

Downs. I I'm with you.

I, you know, I just I think it's, I think it's Irad.

It has to be Irad. Just it's hard to make an

argument against that body of work.

My second place vote though went to Javier Castellano and I just,

it's a great story. You know when we talk about that

forever, whatever is that that's worth.

And it may be worth nothing in his voting, but it was just a

big year for him to get the Derby, to get the Belmont, to

get the traffic, to get these marquee races.

It's sort of like the the quality over quantity argument

I'm making with Mott. I think I'm making with

Castellano too on some of the biggest days and some of the

biggest spots he was there. So I I I want to reward that and

then I kind of revert a little bit.

Not that creative, but I revert more to the stats for 3rd place

and that leads me to Flavi and Pratt for 3rd place.

Again, just just on the the wins, the grade, the grade,

stakes wins, all that sort of thing.

I mean he he'll be second to IRAD there.

So I I put him on my ballot for that reason.

I'm in a college market here for radio, Steven, so we talk a lot

of college football. And one of the arguments I've

made recently is that we were better off before the BCS and

before the 14th playoff, just regionally voting on who the

national title winner was. Because the new system is so

convoluted now, I think moving to more teams and actually

having a legitimate playoff will change sort of the the landscape

of that. And I wonder if we were thinking

about old time college football, how many votes, say, from

California writers Juan Hernandez would get right?

Because the guy just dominates out West and you know, before

his move to New York and then, you know still summering, excuse

me, wintering. I had said I needed with Flavia

and Pratt how many people really soft lobbying for what he is.

I think he might be actually the best stakes rider in the

country. I think he's right there with

IRAD might be a touch better in my in my eyes and just number of

starts. I mean he's got what, 600 less

starts, 550 less starts than IRAD and only three less grade

one wins. I mean that's something, right?

And so that kind of stands out to me.

If we're doing purely quality, I probably would lean toward

Flavian Pratt. I think he's that good.

The other guy you didn't mention and it goes along with the Bill

motto arguments. Junior Alvarado Junior's had a

really, really fine year as well, third and grade one wins

with eight of them. That's a lot more than Javier

Castellano, who had a banner year for Javier freaking

Castellano, who's had an unbelievable career as well.

So yeah, it's a fun, it's a fun category this year.

I do think IRAD ends up winning it just by numbers and and

volume in general. But if someone wanted to make

the case for a Pratt or an Alvarado or Castellano, I would

not. I wouldn't argue.

Yeah, no, actually I I agree with you on Alvarado.

I think ultimately my thought on on Castellano too wasn't just

winning those marquee signature races.

It was also it was the fact that those horses weren't favorites.

You know to do it with mage, you know to do it with.

I mean now we we say one thing about Archangelo, but we weren't

saying it before Belmont, you know so I I think that that goes

he wasn't riding horses that were supposed to win.

His record in the Traverse is unbelievable.

I mean, it's stunning, frankly. I mean, and so yeah, no, it's

fun, fun watching those things as well.

How do you do your owner vote? Yeah, I mean, this is 1 again

where I look at the stat. I mean, it's just pretty much

statistical based. And I what I came up with was

actually, I'll tell you exactly how I did it.

Good Dolphin, to me just just towers in in every category and

you know it. It gets my first place vote and

I just look at Juddmont and Clairevich and to me it was

between them for 2nd and 3rd and I just they were very close and

I ran the the win percentage for each and for Clairevich it was

25.7 and for Juddmont it was 24.8 so I gave 2nd place to

Clairevich. Well, math from Steve Kornacki.

Who knew? Yeah, it's unbelievable, man.

Grade one wins this year. Golden twelve.

Grade one winners this year. That's an insane number.

When Juddmont had seven, Rappoli came in with five this year and

didn't get to run Forte. I think he's going to end up in

my That group's going to end up in my top three this year, just

because I think we talk about making headlines and doing those

things. I think his conversation around

the MTA and those kinds of things, even if it doesn't work,

is good for the sport long term. Like, those kinds of

conversations I think are really positive.

Once in a while, in any field, you need someone just kind of

pushing the envelope and pushing things along, and Michael Poli

is willing to do that. Now.

He's got lots of advantages to doing that, but at least if

someone's willing to do it, he might get a vote for me just for

that reason. That's interesting.

I hadn't thought of that, but that angle in terms of good for

the sport, But I agree with you, I like Ripoli, I think he is

good for the sport. I think what he's doing is just

getting at least the conversation started.

So I I think that's a good contribution.

You got Axel Concepcion for your apprentice rider.

I, yeah, I think so. Again, just look at those, look

at those stats that. Guy.

That guy can ride, man. I could.

We watched the lot in. Kentucky I got, yeah, yeah,

yeah, he's my. I got him in the top slot there.

I got Jaime Torres second, third.

I'm kind of going back and forth a little bit.

But yeah, that's that's one of those categories where I I knew

last year when I got my ballot, I said I wasn't as prepared for

this one as I should be. So I paid a little attention, I

think, this year. There you go.

Did you get nominated for an Eclipse award ever?

Have you won one, Steve? Have I won?

I'm sorry, no, I I have not not been dominated.

But I I consider an honor to vote.

There you go, dude. So like, they just do, they just

hand it to Britney Ertin. How does that work on the NBC

side? No, she, I think she's been.

She plays a role in the ceremony, right?

Yeah, yeah. So she it's this year, it's her

Nick Luck and Gabby got. It.

OK. That's great.

Yeah. Do you make the trip for that?

I think we're going to go just because it's in South Florida in

January. Yeah.

I would. I would love to.

It's it's yeah, well it's timed out too with the, you know with

the Pegasus. But unfortunately for me,

that'll be right between the New Hampshire primary and the Nevada

caucuses. So I'm I'm.

Going to How busy is How busy are zero and four years for you?

Yeah, I mean it's it's, I'm bracing myself.

We're less than three weeks from Iowa and it's do.

You travel for those. Do you Are you actually like,

are you going to Iowa to do it? No, because that that board I

use with the election results doesn't travel well.

So we leave it in the studio. It's like, it's like trying to

get a horse across the country to, you know, to run in or.

But now Steven? Is shipping container and send

him to Des Moines, that's. Right.

Can't invade it out to Des Moines, so you know.

Well, that extra Steve Kornacki, I like it.

All right, Well, Steve, how do people find your stuff?

And I heard you have a podcast that isn't this one.

I did it, yeah. It's a it's not a regular

podcast. It's an episodic one if you're

interested in politics at all. If you're interested in modern

political history, it's about the 1994 Republican revolution.

The rise of Newt Gingrich called the revolution.

Just search for that and any of your podcast things.

I I thought it came out really well and I was happy with it.

And yeah, I mean, I'm on Twitter, but it's the most

boring account you could possibly.

Follow. It's just I disagree, I, you did

a cool. You did a cool analysis the

other day, and I appreciated this and and I'll let you go

after this. You compared this year's primary

candidates on the Republican side, especially to candidates

for the George W Bush, John McCain election.

And I thought that was really interesting because it gave some

perspective of here's what happened before, here's how

people are polling, here's what came of that election.

And you kind of applied it to today, which is interesting.

We obviously don't need to get into who those people are or

anything else, but you can find that on Steve's Twitter feed for

sure, and of course on NBC with all of his coverage.

I got one question. I don't want to blow up.

If you do this to somebody else. Did we do Horse of the year?

Did you want to? We did not do Horse of the Year.

That's a good catch by Steve Kornacki as it is my nose.

We did not go through it. Do you have a Horse of the Year,

young Steve? The reason I mentioned it was,

yeah, this is the one. This is the one I was I was most

ready for because this is the vote.

I I you know again like the expectations are Cody's wish is

going to get this. My vote is going to Idiomatic

and I part of this is just I had a real hard time looking at the

like Cody's wish for instance. You know the inability to

stretch out and you know this you know ran five times.

But sort of, you know to run as often in as many places as

idiomatic did and to win and to win and to win.

I just think it's the most consistent body of work that any

horse put up at an elite level. And I know the knock one of the

knocks an idiomatic is never ran against males.

And it's true. Although you know I was looking

back to see if I could find some precedent for that.

There's Azeri in 2002 and and I think in a year when to me, you

know, there was no male horse that really just stood out to

take the award. I think it's the kind of year

where you can look at a horse like Idiomatic and say, you know

what, I think this is the best resume, the best body of work,

and it's nice to reward a horse that runs, relatively speaking,

as often as she did. No, that's a great point by you.

I really wish Master the Season won the Turf Mile at Keeneland,

'cause then he would have been 3 for three this year after a win

and ask it and I could have just been like, it's my horse of the

year, kind of unfortunately buy a Nose homage there at Keeneland

late in the year. So, Steve Kornacki, we

appreciate you very much. We will talk to you next time,

my friend. But Zach, go ahead and play the

music. Get us out of here.

I'm Louie Rebeau at Radio Louie. You can find our our show at

Horse Happy Hour, of course, on Twitter as well.

Back tonight's 7:00 show, Road to the Preakness.

We begin those episodes Danielman, John Piasik as well

tonight. So we'll see you everybody here

on the horse racing.